S02.E09: Chapter Nine: The Gate

[Littlebitofcheese]

On 11/3/2017 at 1:48 PM, Bcharmer said:

I was thrown off by assuming there were 10 episodes, and had planned on watching Ep 9 last night, then finishing it tonight with Ep 10 - but it became pretty clear by the time jump that this was the season finale. Darn.  What I also wasn't expecting, though, was to get so emotional with those Snow Ball scenes... the first time I got emotional at all during this whole series. But Dustin, sitting alone and crying, did me in. I was a blubbering mess after that. Nancy, for the win. That was the sweetest.  I totally would have danced with him, too.  I also made the correlation between "Every Breath You Take" and Max calling Lucas "Stalker."   That song is a creepy one for a school dance, but with that final shot, it made sense. 

In 84 it wasn't considered creepy at all. A staple slow dance song at school dances.  Listening to the Duffer brothers interview it was used in reference to the ending after the dance of the Shadow monster watching them.

[truthaboutluv]

Finished a few days ago and after four pages of comments, I doubt I'll be adding anything new but here are my general thoughts. 

• Thought the season was as good, if not better than the first season. However, they definitely upped the fear and gore factor which I'm not sure how I feel about since I'm not a fan of gore. I spent the entire first half of Episode 8 with my hands over my eyes. And there was no need for the final shot of Bob after we already knew he was dinner for the Demidogs. Poor sweet, nice, bumbling Bob. 
• Speaking of Bob, I do like that in the end he really was just a nice guy who ended up dying a hero. The picture Will drew of him as a the superhero did get me, I won't lie.
• And speaking of people being just as they are - so in the end, Billy was really just an angry, probably roided up bully. I watched the Aftershow and while I get what the Duffer Brothers were saying about wanting someone who was just a human threat, a sort of reminder that in the midst of all the supernatural stuff, there are real, flesh and blood human monsters, I just feel like they wasted more screen time than was necessary on the character, with no real payoff.
• That said, I liked Max as an addition to the cast. I thought she had good chemistry with the boys, even including Mike who hated her simply for her not being El. And I'm interested to see how the whole group functions next season with El back in the fold and as others have mentioned, them being older and probably Freshmen in high school when Season 3 starts. 
• I am with everyone about the Wheeler's continued obliviousness. That said, I feel like at times the writers sort of pull a bait and switch with them - Mrs. Wheeler more so than Mr. Wheeler who really is just completely checked out from life apparently. But with Mrs. Wheeler, there are scenes that do suggest she's an aware parent. For example the scene in Episode 2 I think when she was grounding Mike and listing all the acting up and bad behavior he'd been displaying for months. That she's aware of and notices all that makes it clear she is somewhat involved and then of course she grounds him. Yet by the end of the season it's like she's forgotten she grounded him or doesn't care at all because there Mike disappears for like two days, since the moment he came to Will's house, he never went back home until all the drama ended. And we get no reaction from Mrs. Wheeler other than her reading her romance novel in the tub and only mentioning about his coming home when Billy comes to their house and she gives him Joyce's address.
• I will agree with others that the scene with her and Billy was hilariously cringe worthy. 
• Not sure how I feel about the Billy possibly being gay speculation. I can see it and I'm fine with it but I'm not here for the Billy and Steve shipping that's been happening online. I'm tired of viewers rooting for unhealthy and antagonistic relationships. They're not cute or entertaining. Billy damn near beat Steve to death. Thanks but no thanks. 
• Like others, I was fine with Episode 7, just not with where it was placed in the order of the episodes. To end on such a major cliffhanger and then randomly shift into a seemingly whole other show was bad continuity. But I was fine with their exploring the existence of others like El because I feel like at some point, more of those will have to come to help save the day because it will start to stretch credulity that this one young girl alone can take on the whole underworld, even with her powers. 
• Was sad for Dustin like others but I won't lie, I did laugh when even Will got asked to dance and Dustin was rejected. Sure the girl still referred to Will as Zombie Boy but he was asked. 
• Not interested in Jonathan and Nancy as a romantic pairing at all since as I noted elsewhere, Jonathan's always looking like a bit of a meth head, sort of turns me off the character and the pairing. Not to  mention that to be honest, other than the crazy supernatural stuff they've gone through, I've never seen what those two have in common. Other than Jonathan had a creepy crush on her for awhile. I guess that will be somewhat interesting next season. To see how they work as a romantic pairing. 
• Speaking of romance, I see what some are saying about the intensity of Mike and  El's relationship considering how young they are. But as others have noted, it's because they're young you can buy this seeming, "you're my whole world" obsession since they're not old enough and grown enough to probably deal with hormones and romantic feelings, etc. And yes, there is the whole intensity of how they met and all the things they've been through regarding the supernatural/underworld/etc. They've literally lived the "life or death" high stakes. But I agree with one poster that it will be fascinating to see what happens if and when El starts becoming more integrated in ordinary life, possibly going to regular school, making friends and her and Mike being older, etc. 
• As I noted above, definitely enjoyed the season and I can't wait for Season 3, whenever that shows up.

Quote

I really hope Steve actually wins a fight next season because now it's get's sad(I know Billy caught him offguard with the dish but it means Steve needs to be able to fight dirty too).

Not gonna lie, I cracked up when Dustin said, after Steve woke up, "you held your own. I mean you got your ass kicked but you held your own".

Edited November 6, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[MisterGlass]

5 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I spent the first half of Episode 8 with my hands over my eyes and there was no need for the final shot of Bob after we already know he was dinner for the Demidogs. Poor sweet, nice, bumbling Bob.

Part of me thinks they did this because there was confusion in the first season when Barb got snatched by the Demigorgon over whether she was really dead.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The rainbow bandaid that the kids put on Steve's face after Billy beat him up is still cracking me up!

[VCRTracking]

21 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Not gonna lie, I cracked up when Dustin said, after Steve woke up, "you held your own. I mean you got your ass kicked but you held your own".

 

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The rainbow bandaid that the kids put on Steve's face after Billy beat him up is still cracking me up!

I loved that whole scene. So hilarious. Steve waking up and thinking Mike was Nancy and Mike's disgusted reaction to his realization Max was driving(and like Short Round from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom with a box tied to her feet) and freaking out and Lucas screaming like a girl again when she barely made that turn!

[Mattipoo]

This episode was a nice wrap up of the season. Loved the group working together again. Steve as the babysitter was hilarious, and also liked that Hopper ended up adopting Eleven.

The snow ball scene at the end was fun. Loved Steve becoming a mentor to Dustin. It was sad when he was crying on his own after being rejected by the group of girls, but nice of Nancy to ask him to dance.

Billy is the worst character on the show and he can’t get off my screen fast enough. So is it implied that he is really a racist towards Lucas?

Erica is the cutest younger sister ever! Hope we get to see more of her in future seasons. Maybe she can join the group!

Dart dying at the end with the nougat wrapper next to him was kinda sad but still can’t get over his killing Dustin’s mom’s cat.

Looking forward to next season. Hopefully nothing bad happens to Will again.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Mattipoo

[Anela]

I wasn't in love with this season, but I wasn't in awe of the first season, either. I think the ifs are adorable, but I'm not a super fan.

Dustin - so cute! I didn't know what he was doing at first, and then remembered Steve's hair tips.

I wasn't giving this my full attention, so was surprised to see it was the last episode - for some reason, I thought we had one more. I'm going to watch it all again, when I'm feeling better. I'm not that invested in Eleven and Will, although I can buy infatuation at their age. 

Edited November 7, 2017 by Anela

[Last Time Lord]

I just finished my second viewing of the season, only I altered the episode order so it went Dig Dug, Lost Sister, The Spy, before resuming the actual order. 

Have to say, it flowed so much smoother, that way. There is still the doozy of a cliffhanger to Dig Dug, but it’s clearly established in Lost Sister that the events of Lost Sister and The Spy  are happening simultaneously, and there’s enough of a tease with Eleven’s visions that it helps wanting to know the full context of them, so the cliffhanger situation is nowhere near as bad as the Demodog invasion not being touched upon after that cliffhanger. 

[Taryn74]

We don't have a general S2 discussion thread, do we?  I started to put this in the S1 discussion thread with spoiler tags, but it touches on too many things that pertain to S2 as a whole, so I guess this is the best place.

After watching S1 a couple of times and finishing S2, I'm really starting to wonder if it was Will communicating with Joyce (via the Christmas lights) at all, or if it was actually El doing it on his behalf.  El knew as soon as the lights at Terry's house starting flashing/blinking, that Terry was trying to communicate with her, so that seems to be a known method of communication to El.  And when we saw Will in the final episode of S1, he looked very weak (and we know from the way Hopper and Joyce had to suit up, that just being in the toxic environment of the Upside Down can drain your life away) and frankly I'm not sure he would have had the strength to be running back and forth between Castle Byers - where he was hiding - and his house making lights flash, while managing to stay hidden from the Demogorgon.  

Also, El knew precisely who Will was when she saw his picture at Mike's house, she never doubted that he was still alive, and she seemed to know exactly where to go to find him when she was in the sensory tank.  I think she had been watching him from the black place, and trying to figure out how to lead the others to him to get him out safely, and communicating with the lights was a part of that.  Joyce had to know that Will was still alive so she wouldn't give up trying to find a way to get to him. 

El also reacted completely differently to seeing Barb dead in the Upside Down, I don't think she even knew Barb was there until Nancy asked her to look for her, so it seems El was specifically keeping tabs on Will while he was in the Upside Down.

Thoughts?

[absnow54]

I just finished my second viewing of the season, only I altered the episode order so it went Dig Dug, Lost Sister, The Spy, before resuming the actual order. Have to say, it flowed so much smoother, that way. There is still the doozy of a cliffhanger to Dig Dug, but it’s clearly established in Lost Sister that the events of Lost Sister and The Spy are happening simultaneously, and there’s enough of a tease with Eleven’s visions that it helps wanting to know the full context of them, so the cliffhanger situation is nowhere near as bad as the Demodog invasion not being touched upon after that cliffhanger.

Someone needs to edit Lost Sister and The Spy into the same episode since they're both covering the same span of time.

El also reacted completely differently to seeing Barb dead in the Upside Down, I don't think she even knew Barb was there until Nancy asked her to look for her, so it seems El was specifically keeping tabs on Will while he was in the Upside Down.

I do agree that El and Will seem to have a special connection, especially since they're never in the same story at the same time. But, I think the reason El never had a connection to Barb because Barb died pretty quickly in the Upside Down. I do think there's something special about Will that we haven't learned about yet that connects him with El.

[The Companion]

On 10/27/2017 at 10:08 PM, SnoGirl said:

Im a puddle of mush. Hopper and Eleven's relationship was my favorite part of this season. I liked that he took responsibility for her, and their talk in the car was everything. I love that she's legally his daughter now. Loved that he immediately thought of the dance for her. I feel like we missed out with the show hiding the fact that Eleven went to the dance. Did Hopper take pictures of her? Who helped her do her hair? You know it was Hopper. 

Their relationship guts me.  Seeing Hopper and Eleven finally connect in the car was so amazing. She finally understood why he was struggling and overprotective. He finally understood that safety wasn't enough. In the end, when he is fighting to protect her then holding her telling her how well she did, I was definitely crying. I would have loved to see some happy dance preparation too, but it her reveal was so great. 

 

On 10/29/2017 at 10:40 AM, ghoulina said:

That's what I love about this show. Ninety-nine percent of the characters are good people. Relatable people who you want to root for. Sure, they have flaws and piss you off at times. But deep down - good hearts. Even Steve. You know, they could have have taken the easy way out and turned Steve into a douche, to make it more palatable that Nancy is into Jonathan. But they didn't. Steve was a good boyfriend, and he's a good friend. He is great with the younger kids, and just as brave and selfless as everyone else. Hell, they could have just had him killed - that would have made the whole love triangle a lot easier. But I like that they kept him around. 

I totally agree. They could have made Steve unlikeable, but instead we got a great character to root for in a totally different role. I would love to see Steve continue to diverge from love interest into something else. 

On 10/29/2017 at 1:06 PM, Blue Plastic said:

I felt just the tiniest bit sorry for Dart when he was lying there dead/dying next to a 3 Musketeers candy wrapper.  Like just 0.000000000000000001% sorry.  I love cats and he ate Dustin's cat so I hate that, but a small part of him trusted Dustin so I guess that's why I felt a tiny bit sorry.

I felt horrible for poor Dart. He is a wild animal. He doesn't understand that the cat means anything. The cat is food and he must have been starving given the energy required for the rapid growth we saw. In the end, he did bond with Dustin and it was sad to see him stand down and then just shrivel up. 

On 10/29/2017 at 3:38 PM, EarlGreyTea said:

 

Did anyone else notice Will drew a picture of Bob in a superhero costume in this episode, hanging on the wall? Adorable.

I loved this so much. I liked that it wasn't a cheap death. We saw those he left behind dealing with the loss. Poor sweet awesome Bob.

 

On 10/30/2017 at 9:32 AM, nodorothyparker said:

Didn't the aunt tell Eleven that the doctors believed that her mother's condition is irreversible and unlikely to ever improve?  It's pretty heavily implied in Eleven's visions that the ECT her mother received short circuited her brain to put her in the state she is now to shut her up about her missing baby.

Sure, in the real world a blood relative would generally likely be a preferred placement for guardianship, but Dr. Owens suggested at the end that it still may take some time for things to completely settle to the point where Eleven can live anywhere openly and try to have a normal life.  He even suggested they wait another year, which by now Hopper understands can't look like the year preceding it.  I think this also goes back to one of the Lost Sister episode's themes of choice.  Eleven has had precious few choices in her life thus far and she chose to go back to Hawkins where she has friends and someone willing to step into that parent role.  She's also old enough that any court or child services type agency is going to take her wishes into account.  Most people would be hard pressed to not give that a fair amount of weight.  

She may or may not have any rights if Eleven's birth certificate say a Hopper is her dad. I am assuming they doctored or created a birth certificate rather than a closed adoption proceeding. The legal presumption would be that he is her biological parent. Regardless, her aunt didn't seem equipped to handle a new charge and she certainly didn't know the details of Eleven' s trauma. Moving her at this point would probably involve having her hide her powers from any friends she made, isolating her and making it even harder. I hope they maintain the relationship, but it should be up to Eleven. She is old enough to get a say in where she wants to be and she has damn well earned it. I would love to see her bring in her sister to try and help her mom. I wonder if her mind powers would allow her to alter the loop. To know that her daughter is safe and happy.

 

On 10/30/2017 at 10:45 PM, kcjc said:

Loved season 2. I really, really would have liked a quick scene of Joyce coming home and finding that demidog in her fridge. You know that, after all the trauma, none of those kids thought to give her a heads up that Dustin and Steve shoved it in there.

That would have been amazing. Don't forget the random teenager drugged and on the floor. The visual of them stuffing that Demodog in the fridge was amazing.

 

On 10/31/2017 at 0:20 AM, Kostgard said:

Another sweet Eleven/Hopper thing - I noticed Hopper wearing a blue bracelet that looks like a braided friendship bracelet or something. At first I thought maybe Eleven made it for him (hey, she's cooped up all day. Makes sense that she'd get into arts & crafts to kill the time), but he also wore it in season one (never noticed it them). He made it from his daughter's hair ribbon after she lost her hair and wears it as a reminder of her. That alone is sweet, but then I noticed that it looks like Eleven is wearing the bracelet at the dance. The fact that Hopper would let her wear something that is clearly precious to him says a lot. 

Brb, gotta go cry for awhile. 

I have a bracelet that I wear every day. It is a POW bracelet and I have only taken it off (other than things like surgery) to give to my husband to wear in Iraq. This detail hits home hard. It is what makes this show so special. Those little details.

On 11/1/2017 at 4:10 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

It would be cool if he gained the ability to see into the Upside Down, the kid deserves something to go his way. Although I guess that power would be a little redundant since El can already see into the upside down; although setting up a sensory deprivation chamber is kind of a pain in the ass. And I do wonder how will ended up being able to see into the upside down. Other people went in and didn't have that happen to them. Was it the thing he barfed up? I guess he was in there for like a week right, he must have eaten or drank something at some point.

Maybe he will develop a power. Throw this kid a bone.

On 11/2/2017 at 6:22 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

I am curious how Eleven's powers work, because last year she used them on a single Demigorgon and it launched her into the upside down. This yeat she used them to close the whole upside down gate and she didn't. So was it just practicing her powers that changed things.

I think it can be assumed that it was the practice and the learning to channel her emotions to increase the power. It also makes the side quest to Chicago have a bit more relevance.

 

What an incredible ending. I want more, but this episode was jam packed with awesomeness.

As I said above, the Eleven and Hopper stuff was amazing. Those two actors were doing some next level work. For me, the payoff was there. When she held his hand in the elevator, when he was shooting Demodogs desperately trying to protect her, when he held her and told her over and over how well she had done and when he finally decided to let her have a normal night. My heart, y'all.

Speaking of great work, I loved the Will exorcism. I also loved bringing Bob into it. Again, I am blown away by the way they developed him over the season. Bob Newby, Superhero indeed.

The Steve and the gang adventure was also amazing.  There was a moment when I thought he would get Dustin out and get eaten. It was a tense scene. 

The final scene was so great. I loved getting to see the gang have a normal night. Sweet Dustin looked amazong. Those girls are idiots. Good job, Nancy. I don't want to see that sweet boy grow cynical.  I didn't mind the romances. It wasn't like anything age appropriate was happening. Will they last? Probably not but it has happened. Eleven and Mike in particular have been through so much. 

[Taryn74]

49 minutes ago, The Companion said:

Bob Newby, Superhero indeed.

I literally never noticed his last name was actually "newby", I thought you were being funny.  That is full of awesome.  Oh, show.  

[piperkat]

On 11/7/2017 at 10:36 AM, The Companion said:

I felt horrible for poor Dart. He is a wild animal. He doesn't understand that the cat means anything. The cat is food and he must have been starving given the energy required for the rapid growth we saw. In the end, he did bond with Dustin and it was sad to see him stand down and then just shrivel up. 

Agreed. It's no different than if Dart had been a lion cub or a coyote pup who grew to full size in a few days.  I felt terrible for Mews(?), but I can't blame Dart for following his nature. Even though I think it's easier for the viewer to hate/fear him because of the way he looks, he really is just like any other predator.

[Enero]

I finished this season a few days ago. So like others I’ll just state my views of the season as a whole. 

I thought overall the season was great. IMO it was not as awesome as S1, but a strong follow up nonetheless. 

Season Highlights

The development of Hopper/El’s relationship. I think she fills a part of the void left after his daughter’s death and he serves as that parent who genuinely cares about her well being that she obviously didn’t get in the lab. 

I also liked getting a little more insight into Lucas and actually seeing his family. 

The development of Steve continues to be a pleasant surprise. 

Max was an awesome addition to the group. Her integration into the club was nicely done. 

Will’s PTSD was well done. I enjoyed all of his scenes with Mama Joyce and Jonathan. And props to the actor who is excellent in the role. 

El’s return was awesome! Though I could’ve done without the sex eyes between her and Mike. More on that later. Loved the scene where she closed the gate. That was EPIC!

Hopper continues to be awesome. He’s such a fearless badass. Even though the show surrounds the kids I think Hop is one of my favorites. I also thoroughly enjoyed his relationship with Joyce and can’t decide whether he feels something deeper than friendship for her or not. There were a couple of scenes this season and last that hinted that there might be something there, but that was it. 

 

The Low Lights

Mike/Eleven - I could get that he missed her. I could understand that they bonded over a life/death experience but the soulmate thing is just not working for me. The looks they exchanged in the reunion scene was almost icky and the dialogue was downright cringeworthy. They need to give them a few more years before they went there. Both characters look like they’ve barely reached adolescence which makes their “passion” for each other very uncomfortable to watch. 

The sister/mother storyline was just not good. I know it was used to a) give El  more character development; b) allow the audience to learn about her past and c) give her something to do besides cool her heels until they were ready to return her to the main plot. However, it was just boring. I did not care about her mom nor the sister. Both storylines particularly the sister storyline seemed pointless. Though I suspect the latter will show up in some future season as friend or foe. 

For Billy to have such a grand entrance his story went nowhere interesting. I can’t imagine what they’ll do with him if he sticks around for another season. 

I liked Bob, but knew he wouldn’t live to see Christmas on this show only because history has shown that Sean Astin’s characters never fair well i.e 24, The Strain. 

 

From the looks of that final scene it looks like the upside down world still has an agenda. I’m not sure  what more the writers can squeeze out of that storyline thread before it gets old but I’m curious to see. 

 

Also with the show being based around adolescents it means we likely won’t have to wait forever for S3. Since to wait too long would put the characters at a point where they’ve aged out of the adolescent/kid phase which IMHO is what makes the show so endearing. 

[truthaboutluv]

41 minutes ago, Enero said:

Also with the show being based around adolescents it means we likely won’t have to wait forever for S3. Since to wait too long would put the characters at a point where they’ve aged out of the adolescent/kid phase which IMHO is what makes the show so endearing. 

Word is they're planning a time jump for the next season, so I imagine that's one way they plan to work around the inevitable adolescent growth spurt.

 

Quote

Mike/Eleven - I could get that he missed her. I could understand that they bonded over a life/death experience but the soulmate thing is just not working for me. The looks they exchanged in the reunion scene was almost icky and the dialogue was downright cringeworthy. They need to give them a few more years before they went there. Both characters look like they’ve barely reached adolescence which makes their “passion” for each other very uncomfortable to watch.

I saw a hilarious comment online that with the way they're going with Mike and El's feelings for each other, the characters will elope by season 4. I also laughed when Millie said in an interview that El spent 80 percent of the season just crying out "Mike, Mike..."

That said, while I see what some are saying, I went back and watched some of the episodes and I didn't think their behavior was that over the top for adolescent first love. And I thought their kiss at the dance was pretty age appropriate.

I think what may be making some viewers uneasy if you will is just how good Finn and Millie were at selling the love story and connection the two characters have. There was a weird maturity about it even while they were still in many ways kids. It's like with Max and Lucas, everything about it felt like middle school crush because the actors were appropriately kid like in their portrayal. It was cute but that was it.

Finn and Millie however actually made you believe that Mike and Eleven really could be madly in love with their portrayals. And they're 13 and 14. So yeah, I can see why it makes some viewers a little uneasy.

Edited November 9, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[roctavia]

Really enjoyed this episode and the whole season. Like many, the El/Hopper pairing was my favorite. She needed someone who actually cared about her and not just what she could do, and Hopper needed a reason to keep on living and get his shit together. It was a great choice for direction.   The only thing I wish they did differently was naming her Elle or something on the new birth certificate instead of Jane. I know her mom named her Jane, but she was never Jane... 

 

Billy was the worst and I would have been fine with him dying... he was just annoying without much purpose. 

Bob really was a hero. I liked the way Bob just took everything in stride and was happy to help. 

 

The kids all did great this season, and it was nice to see Will with a bit more to do :)

[Ravenya003]

I know it's been said a million times already, but I rewatched the Snow Ball scene, and DAMN these kids are fantastic. Most actors of any age can manage the basics of sadness, happiness, fear, etc - but these guys bring so much nuance to their scenes, it's incredible. Some examples: 1) Lucas taking a little breath to gather himself before asking Max to dance, 2) Will nervously looking to Mike for guidance when the girl asks him to dance, 3) Dustin self-consciously looking around at the other kids as Nancy leads him to the dance floor, 4) Mike going from utter despondency to "OMG SHE'S HERE!" to bursting with joy when Eleven walks in, 5) Max immediately getting embarrassed after she kisses Lucas and burying her face in his shoulder, 6) the fact that Eleven only has one line ("I don't know how") but still projecting barely contained glee when Mike kisses her.  Seriously, the little breath she takes to control her smile is magical.

There are plenty of great child actors out there, but that this show could find SIX of such calibre is miraculous. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Ravenya003

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, Ravenya003 said:

I know it's been said a million times already, but I rewatched the Snow Ball scene, and DAMN these kids are fantastic actors. Most actors of any age can manage the basics of sadness, happiness, fear, etc - but these guys bring so much nuance to their scenes, it's incredible. Some examples: 1) Lucas taking a little breath to gather himself before asking Max to dance, 2) Will nervously looking to Mike for guidance when the girl asks him to dance, 3) Dustin self-consciously looking around at the other kids as Nancy leads him to the dance floor, 4) Mike going from utter despondency to "OMG SHE'S HERE!" to bursting with joy when Eleven walks in, 5) Max immediately getting embarrassed after she kisses Lucas and burying her face in his shoulder, 6) the fact that Eleven only has one line ("I don't know how") but still projecting barely contained glee when Mike kisses her.  Seriously, the little breath she takes to control her smile is magical.

There are plenty of great child actors out there, but that this show could find SIX of such calibre is miraculous. 

Yeah, whenever I see a kid actor as a regular or guest appearance on show(mostly dramas) I've let it slide for not being up to snuff because y'know, "they're just kids", but now screw that! I've seen how good someone that young can be.

 

2 hours ago, roctavia said:

Really enjoyed this episode and the whole season. Like many, the El/Hopper pairing was my favorite. She needed someone who actually cared about her and not just what she could do, and Hopper needed a reason to keep on living and get his shit together. It was a great choice for direction.   The only thing I wish they did differently was naming her Elle or something on the new birth certificate instead of Jane. I know her mom named her Jane, but she was never Jane... 

I'm fine with it. It's her real name and not connected to the evil of the lab. The only attachment I have to "Elle" is that it's the nickname Mike gave her. He could still be the only who still called her that while everyone else calls her Jane. Maybe even Hopper because he calls her that for a year together. Like on Little House on the Prairie when Laura's husband Almanzo calls her "Beth" and her father calls her "Halfpint".

[VCRTracking]

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I think what may be making some viewers uneasy if you will is just how good Finn and Millie were at selling the love story and connection the two characters have. There was a weird maturity about it even while they were still in many ways kids. It's like with Max and Lucas, everything about it felt like middle school crush because the actors were appropriately kid like in their portrayal. It was cute but that was it.

Finn and Millie however actually made you believe that Mike and Eleven really could be madly in love with their portrayals. And they're 13 and 14. So yeah, I can see why it makes some viewers a little uneasy.

Making a second post to say that it is definitely how Finn and Millie play it especially Millie that gives off the "more mature" vibe. The way she shakes her head when she says "353 days" and later when they say goodbye before almost kissing and she tells him "you won't lose me." I thought goddamn, this is like Elizabeth Taylor in "A Place in the Sun" kind of acting! On Finn's side, he's been playing Mike more mature this season when it comes to looking out for Will all the way to his yelling at Hopper until he finally breaks down in his arms and suddenly he's a kid again.

[laurakaye]

On 10/30/2017 at 2:07 AM, afrocorgi said:

Can I just say how seriously impressive it is that the kids are not just as good as they were last season, but even better? I have watched too many movies/TV shows with adorable, precocious kids who give adorable, precocious performances only to lose their minds a couple of years later to awkwardness and self-consciousness as they go through puberty. It seems as soon as growth spurts start happening and voices start deepening, an alarming number of kid actors simply forget how to act (recent good example: Modern Family), and I was terrified it was going to happen to the kids on this show. I am stunned that not only has that not happened, but every single member of the kid cast has far surpassed their work in the last season. Brown, Wolfhard and Schnapp are turning in better dramatic turns than a lot of actors twice their age and I dare you to find a more funny, likeable performance than the one Matarazzo gave this season. Dustin did about twenty stupid things per episode this season and it's only by virtue of his charm that we're never annoyed with him for it. 

I hope all the kids get serious pay bumps when they go into renegotiation for their contracts next season, because they deserve every penny they can squeeze out of Netflix.

+++++1 to every word, especially regarding Matarazzo.  I felt like his personality could've easily gone over the top, but the kid oozes charm and everything he did was very believeable and true to his character.  Did I hear him right, when he rushed into class late - he called his teacher "m'Lord?"  He's awesome.

 

On 10/31/2017 at 9:46 PM, SnoGirl said:

I saw on Twitter someone posted how many days Eleven and Mike were apart was 353 days. But if you add the numbers, 3+5+3 you get 11. Which if it was on purpose or not, it made me smile.I

Oh my goodness...another detail that smacks me right in the feels.

Count me as one of many who adored the Steve/Dustin dynamic.  I love that there are so many ways the writers can bring these characters together, and I for one am all about Nancy/El as a big sister/little sister duo.  It will also be interesting to see a friendship between Max and El going forward.

Having gone to high school in the 80's, I just cannot get enough of the small but important details in hair, clothes, etc.  I totally knew a Nancy, a Barb, a Steve and a Billy (although he wasn't a psycho, as far as I know).  

I'm going to need Season Three before 2019.  Duffer Brothers, are you listening?  El - can you hear me??

Edited November 9, 2017 by laurakaye

[DearEvette]

Great season.  I just ate it up.

Some random takeaways:

Favorite new character:  Bob  - I just loved him.  loved him!   If anyone needed a #justice hashtag it was him.  Erica, Lucas' sister comes in a close second, mainly because she didn't have as much to do with the main storyline and only had about four scenes.  But she made the most of those scenes. Her love of Lucas' He-Man action figure is a many splendored thing.  Her disdain of him and his friends is something to be aspired to.  Blessed be Erica.

Least favorite new character:  Billy.  What. A. Waste. Of. Skin.  I wanted that guy to be eaten so bad.  He served literally no purpose at all. 

Biggest surprise:  The evolution of Steve.  He shown to be a pretty decent guy last season, but the character grew into someone really excellent in this one.  I love his mentorship of Dustin and just him hanging around with the younger set. 

Best Teamwork: Even though everybody teamed up in various iterations, I still enjoyed Nancy and Jonathan the most.  This is really just a continuation of their dynamic last season.  But just like last season which showed them coming to the correct conclusions and planning a very smart and reasoned attack, they did the same thing this time around.

Standout moments: Max's face when she realizes what Lucas' story was true.  El's return. Will's seizure at the dig site (Yikes)!

Standout episode: Since I binged they all sort of blend, but I have to say I really enjoyed Dig Dug.  It was exciting and creepy and moves the story right along in so many places.

Least favorite episode: The Lost Sister.  I didn't care about those people at all. 

Takes one for the team: Joyce House.  Man, that house has seen things...Poor house.

MVP: Will.  Hands down.  This kid delivered this season so hard.  Also Joyce is a close second.  I mean, she went to a scary underground realm to bring back her kid last season and this season she tough-loved an alien, smoke vine creature out of his body without a blink. 

[bettername2come]

18 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

That said, while I see what some are saying, I went back and watched some of the episodes and I didn't think their behavior was that over the top for adolescent first love. And I thought their kiss at the dance was pretty age appropriate.

I think what may be making some viewers uneasy if you will is just how good Finn and Millie were at selling the love story and connection the two characters have. There was a weird maturity about it even while they were still in many ways kids. It's like with Max and Lucas, everything about it felt like middle school crush because the actors were appropriately kid like in their portrayal. It was cute but that was it.

Finn and Millie however actually made you believe that Mike and Eleven really could be madly in love with their portrayals. And they're 13 and 14. So yeah, I can see why it makes some viewers a little uneasy.

I think what makes it work, on top of Finn and Millie being great actors, is just that this really isn't a normal relationship between two normal people. These are people who've risked their lives for each other, a girl who desperately needed help and kindness, and there really is this strange connection between them because of that. Even the regular friendships between the kids are stronger than normal so the romantic ones being more intense also fits along with that. Heck, Steve suddenly having a BFF who's 13 is weird, but these things happen when you fight demogorgons together. 

 

3 hours ago, laurakaye said:

I saw on Twitter someone posted how many days Eleven and Mike were apart was 353 days. But if you add the numbers, 3+5+3 you get 11. Which if it was on purpose or not, it made me smile.

Also in the "things that equal 11" category - the team now has 11 members - the four boys, 2 girls, 3 older teens and 2 adults.

[raven]

30 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

These are people who've risked their lives for each other, a girl who desperately needed help and kindness, and there really is this strange connection between them because of that.

I was going to say something similar - for me, the Mike/El relationship wasn't too rushed or intense - they've been apart for almost a year but Mike had been trying to talk to her on the walkie and El had been listening in.  I've only watched the season once but I thought Mike said he knew (prob wishful thinking, but who knows) that she was there.  So that would ramp up the intensity, being sure that somehow, the other person is communicating - and in El's case, she definitely knew.  Mike and the other kids never saw a dead El either, so Mike had even more reason to think she was out there.  El of course was isolated except for Hopper so who can blame her for listening in to Mike once in a while.

 

21 hours ago, piperkat said:

 I felt terrible for Mews(?), but I can't blame Dart for following his nature. 

I felt a little sad twinge at Dart lying dead next to the 3 Musketeers wrapper.  He WAS cute when he was little and yes, was just doing what he would do when he ate the cat.

In case anyone was wondering like I was, Yurtle the Turtle lives!

[mlssufan01]

So I just randomly did 2 of my favorite things in succession:  Binge watch all of Stranger Things, and play old school video games.  My game of choice:  Final Fantasy I.  I've played Final Fantasy before...but this time I noticed some striking coincidences.

Before I begin, I think it's important to define plagiarism.
"Plagiarism - the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own." - dictionary.com

 

So, in this regard, it could be said that Final Fantasy plagiarized D&D.  However, in context, most of D&D is based on ancient myth and lore...so while the monsters might be the same, the story will often differ, as people make stories what they will.  Herein lies the problem:  The stories have many parallels that have caused me to second guess the originality of the popular Netflix series.
Parallel #1: There are 4 main protagonists, or warriors in both series.  In Final Fantasy, you can choose your own names.  In Stranger Things, the 4 warriors would be Mike, Will, Lucas, and Dustin.  In Season 1 Episode 1, we discover that Mike is a Master and Will is a wizard.  Later on, Dustin identifies as a dwarf while Lucas identifies as a Knight.  In Final Fantasy, you have options to start as a Thief, Fighter, Monk, or Mage (Red, Black, or White); which, when evolved become Ninja, Warrior, Master, and Wizard, respectively.  Thus, the only one that varies from the game is Dustin the Dwarf, though dwarves do appear as NPC's in various locations of Final Fantasy.

The worlds.  In both Stranger Things and FF, they have "this world" as their home world.  In Stranger Things, it is 1983 Hawkins, Indiana, while Final Fantasy, although released in 1987, does not divulge information as to the exact time of their "current world."  What is interesting though, is the parallels of the "other worlds."  Stranger Things refers to this world as "The Upside Down," while Final Fantasy considers it to be 2000 years ago, wherein the heroes find themselves in a castle.  In Stranger Things, access to this other world is explained by a girl named Eleven, who supposedly "accidentally opened the gate."  In Final Fantasy, access is granted to this other world by obtaining 4 crystals and touching an orb.

The end boss (Season 1), Demogorgon vs. Chaos.  So, remember that 2000 year ago castle?  This is pretty important.  Demogorgons didn't appear in Final Fantasy until the  mobile game Final Fantasy Brave Exvius, where FF defines demogorgon as follows:  "A strange looking statue which began moving after being possessed by wicked thoughts. Although it was initially meant to guard castles and temples against dark and evil spirits, absorbing them as part of its duties ultimately morphed it into an evil being itself. Having a demogorgon manifest in one's own property is a sign that someone in close proximity is full of terrible intentions, bringing about great dishonor and shame."  Dungeons and Dragons, as well as Stranger things, define Demogorgon as follows:  "Demogorgon is a powerful demon prince. He is known as the Prince of Demons, a self-proclaimed title he holds by virtue of his power and influence, which, in turn, is a title acknowledged by both mortals and his fellow demons."

Interestingly enough, Final Fantasy describes Chaos as such: "Chaos is the antagonist and the final boss of the original Final Fantasy. He is a demonic monster who maintains a time loop."  Generally speaking, Chaos is defined as pure and complete evil.  His early depictions resemble a devil-like being.

 

Now Now, I know what you're thinking.  How do the Byers, Nancy, Barb, Steve, Murray, Eleven, and all these other characters tie in.  Well,one theory is that they are NPC's.  It is not uncommon for NPC's to have vital roles in continuing the journey.  For example, in Final Fantasy's Mt. Duergar, Grandpa Melnac destroy land with Nitro Powder, and Eleven opens (and later closes) a gate.
Also, sometimes stories that happened in the past affect what happens now.  For example, in Final Fantasy, in Lufenia, we are told these people built arships many many years ago.  The heroes discover this airship during the course of the game.   While the Lufenians won't be coming with us on our journey, the actions of their ancestors directly affect whether or not we even find the airship today.  Likewise, whether Nancy is dating Steve or Jonathan, I believe plays a vital role in whether our heroes can continue our journey.  You see, if Nancy continues dating Steve, then Steve is no longer available to help the kids ward of Demodogs; nor does he get involved in the fight with Billy that allows Max to venture with the new gang.  This is the least correlated part of the 2 series, and thus offers perhaps a benefit who don't think there may have been plagiarism involved.

 

What are your thoughts?  Any thoughts from Season 2?  Could Max be the Red Mage?  How does the Mind Flayer correlate to Final Fantasy?  (fyi, the Mind Flayer is a regular non-boss enemy in Final Fantasy, but as of now I couldn't find a suitable story correlation).

[VCRTracking]

17 hours ago, raven said:

17 hours ago, bettername2come said:

These are people who've risked their lives for each other, a girl who desperately needed help and kindness, and there really is this strange connection between them because of that.

I was going to say something similar - for me, the Mike/El relationship wasn't too rushed or intense - they've been apart for almost a year but Mike had been trying to talk to her on the walkie and El had been listening in.  I've only watched the season once but I thought Mike said he knew (prob wishful thinking, but who knows) that she was there.  So that would ramp up the intensity, being sure that somehow, the other person is communicating - and in El's case, she definitely knew.  Mike and the other kids never saw a dead El either, so Mike had even more reason to think she was out there.  El of course was isolated except for Hopper so who can blame her for listening in to Mike once in a while.

I don't know about the female posters when they were 12 but when I was that age it's where you go from "Ugh, girls" and wanting to not have anything to do with them to now desperately wanting their approval. You want girls, especially pretty girls to like you. The fantasy for me  is wishing when I was 12 that I could impress the girl I had a crush on  with my comic book collection they way Mike impresses Eleven by showing her his Star Wars action figures and his dad's La-Z-Boy! Lucas was very very mean about it, but actually right in season 1 where he said Mike was "blinded" to El because he found a girl who wasn't "grossed out" by him.

It gets  even worse when you're 14, where you're going through that awkward phase AND lust just becomes a permanent resident. The girls you grew up with start developing and suddenly you don't just want them to like you you want to have sex with them.  The scary thing is, some boys start to not about care about being liked, they just want the sex. That's where all of treating women like objects begins. They don't teach kids how to deal with all these feelings properly  unfortunately as we've seen lately it leads later on to really messed up adults.

When El saves his life from jumping off the cliff and beating up those bullies is where I believe Mike starts to really fall in love with her.

Edited November 10, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Clanstarling]

55 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I don't know about the female posters when they were 12 but when I was that age it's where you go from "Ugh, girls" and wanting to not have anything to do with them to now desperately wanting their approval. You want girls, especially pretty girls to like you. The fantasy for me  is wishing when I was 12 that I could impress the girl I had a crush on  with my comic book collection they way Mike impresses Eleven by showing her his Star Wars action figures and his dad's La-Z-Boy! Lucas was very very mean about it, but actually right in season 1 where he said Mike was "blinded" to El because he found a girl who wasn't "grossed out" by him.

It gets  even worse when you're 14, where you're going through that awkward phase AND lust just becomes a permanent resident. The girls you grew up with start developing and suddenly you don't just want them to like you you want to have sex with them.  The scary thing is, some boys start to not about care about being liked, they just want the sex. That's where all of treating women like objects begins. They don't teach kids how to deal with all these feelings properly  unfortunately as we've seen lately it leads later on to really messed up adults.

When El saves his life from jumping off the cliff and beating up those bullies is where I believe Mike starts to really fall in love with her.

And I, a former girl (as in, I'm old now), never had an "ugh boys" era. I had boyfriends from the get-go. My first "real" one was when I was eleven. We were mad about each other. So Mike and El have never seemed off to me. Friendship and love is amplified by facing adversity together. 

[VCRTracking]

18 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

And I, a former girl (as in, I'm old now), never had an "ugh boys" era. I had boyfriends from the get-go. My first "real" one was when I was eleven. We were mad about each other. So Mike and El have never seemed off to me. Friendship and love is amplified by facing adversity together. 

Yeah, seeing couples already together in the 7th and 8th grades I felt both very envious, like seeing a girl just casually sitting on a boy's lap with her arms around him during lunch and thinking "What is this guy's secret? How do I make that happen for me?" but also very intimidated because those couples also were so SUPER into each other, like the idea of being that committed to another person was freaky to me. I knew a boy(who was one of the cooler kids in class) SOBBING in class because his girlfriend had dumped him! I thought "I'm not ready for this shit!"

Anyway as I said Mike and Eleven's feelings may be intense for their age but I believe it considering what they've been through.

Edited November 10, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Ravenya003]

14 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Yeah, seeing couples already together in the 7th and 8th grades I felt both very envious, like seeing a girl just casually sitting on a boy's lap with her arms around him during lunch and thinking "What is this guy's secret? How do I make that happen for me?" but also very intimidated because those couples also were so SUPER into each other, like the idea of being that committed to another person was freaky to me. I knew a boy(who was one of the cooler kids in class) SOBBING in class because his girlfriend had dumped him! I thought "I'm not ready for this shit!"

Anyway as I said Mike and Eleven's feelings may be intense for their age but I believe it considering what they've been through.

I've mentioned this before, but Mike and Eleven totally work for me, though I can understand why others think it may be too intense or obsessive. But when you look at the dynamic between them, what they're feeling makes perfect sense. It's not too intense because they're kids, it's BECAUSE they're kids that it's so intense. On Mike's side he found and rescued a girl straight out of a Dungeons and Dragons game, complete with a mysterious backstory and magical powers. Of course he's going to be fascinated (especially when he realizes she's pretty), but what he's doing also comes with the very adult responsibility of taking care of her, which he DOES.  She's his secret and his responsibility, which is a potent mix. 

(In season one Mike's feelings toward El very much reminded me of Elliot and E.T., and having watched that film recently Elliot also gets SUPER attached to the point of possessive of E.T.)

And on Eleven's side there's a boy that's feeding her and caring for her and teaching her new words and giving her new experiences that are wholly positive for the first time in her life. Of course she's going to latch onto him as a teacher and protector - though at this point it's crucial to note that this type of story could ONLY work between two kids of the same age. Any older, and there would inevitably be a power imbalance or a sense of creepiness (grown man hides vulnerable girl in his basement, starts developing feelings for her - ew) or too great a suspension of disbelief (the first adult Eleven meets immediately calls child services, which is what ANY adult would do - only another kid would think it was a good idea to keep her hidden in a blanket hut). 

But as it is, we can accept Mike's desire to help and Eleven's trust in him and their growing affection for each other at face value. Neither one has any ulterior motive beyond helping the other, and each one is something new and shiny that they've ever experienced before. After each one saves the other's life, have a number of life-threatening adventures together, spend a year apart without fully knowing what the other is up to - of course they're going to be super-emotional when they're reunited, and I love that their bond is built totally on kindness and protectiveness.

I think the reason Mike/El struck a chord with so many viewers is that they capture the innocence of first love AND the intensity of true love. 99% of us don't stay with our first loves - but what Mike and Eleven have will probably last them all their lives.  Which is all to say, I think Mike/Eleven are a pretty extraordinary love story, and whether the Duffer Brothers want to keep it as "pure, young love" or give them a few relationship roadblocks in season three (I'm really interested in how Hopper/Mike are going to interact with each other considering Hopper has taken over the role of protector from Mike - in which case, who will El side with?)  I'm totally on-board. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Ravenya003

[Kel Varnsen]

On 08/11/2017 at 9:37 PM, piperkat said:

Agreed. It's no different than if Dart had been a lion cub or a coyote pup who grew to full size in a few days.  I felt terrible for Mews(?), but I can't blame Dart for following his nature. Even though I think it's easier for the viewer to hate/fear him because of the way he looks, he really is just like any other predator.

Not sure that is 100% true. The Demidogs were controlled at least some of the time by the Shadow Monster, to the point where they died when the gate was closed. So I am not sure they were exactly like a wild animal.

[LeGrandElephant]

I predict that next season they will try to redeem Billy and have his father killed by a monster. If they redeem Billy they can use him for monster fighting because he's really strong. But I think they went way too over the top with Billy this season. Needed some subtlety earlier than the scene near the end when his dad hit him. I did notice that he looks way stronger than his dad, so his dad must have been hitting him since he was little for him to be conditioned to take it like that. 

Did they ever follow up on Nancy's call to Barb's mother? What does Barb's mom think Nancy was going to tell her about that night? 

That line about Eleven laying low for a year... is that just another excuse to keep her out of school and unsocialized until next season? 

[truthaboutluv]

12 minutes ago, LeGrandElephant said:

Did they ever follow up on Nancy's call to Barb's mother? What does Barb's mom think Nancy was going to tell her about that night? 

I assume they figured she wanted to tell them about the "toxic fumes" from the plant killing Barb.

[VCRTracking]

5 hours ago, Ravenya003 said:

I think the reason Mike/El struck a chord with so many viewers is that they capture the innocence of first love AND the intensity of true love -

THIS.

1 hour ago, LeGrandElephant said:

That line about Eleven laying low for a year... is that just another excuse to keep her out of school and unsocialized until next season? 

I don't think she's qualified to even attend whatever grade the other kids are in and join them. As it is she'll need to be home schooled another year(by a qualified tutor) to even begin to catch up.

[EarlGreyTea]

4 hours ago, LeGrandElephant said:

I predict that next season they will try to redeem Billy and have his father killed by a monster. If they redeem Billy they can use him for monster fighting because he's really strong. But I think they went way too over the top with Billy this season. Needed some subtlety earlier than the scene near the end when his dad hit him. I did notice that he looks way stronger than his dad, so his dad must have been hitting him since he was little for him to be conditioned to take it like that. 

Did they ever follow up on Nancy's call to Barb's mother? What does Barb's mom think Nancy was going to tell her about that night? 

That line about Eleven laying low for a year... is that just another excuse to keep her out of school and unsocialized until next season? 

Precisely what I thought. The moment the doctor said that, I said out loud: I see what you did there, Duffers. Like the time jump for this season, it's an excuse to delay the storyline until we the audience can tune in. It's not a bad idea. I sure don't want to miss any of that hilarity. I was pretty peeved we only got a measly episode and a half with all the kids together this season.

This reminds me of a hilarious thing Caleb said about Eleven during their Sirius XM interview:

Caleb: I feel like Eleven would be, like, in the third grade.

Millie: I'm sorry, she's SMART! She may not know what the word compromise means, but she definitely knows what love is!

Typing it doesn't do it justice. It's in this video. Skip to 45:36. The entire thing is worth a listen. Those kids have charisma and humor to burn.

Edited November 11, 2017 by EarlGreyTea

[Ottis]

On 10/28/2017 at 2:40 AM, EarlGreyTea said:

To me, the Demagorgon and the UpsIde Down is a mere plotline. What kept me watching was the kids’ friendship.

And I was the opposite. I kept wanting the kids, in their various combinations, off my screen and I wanted to know more about why this evil thing existed, what it wanted and how it knew about our world. El was the one exception, because that actress was so good.

I think they screwed up her detour to find her sister. I thought they were going to bring her sister back, and maybe one or two others of the original lab kids, because they ALL had a role to play in ending the evil that was mismanaged by their tormentors. When she didn't come back with El, I was surprised and hated that we had to watch an hour of the 80s film, "Warriors," for no reason.

[LeGrandElephant]

If they set up El with some competent homeschooling and have her lay low but allow the other kids to visit her and make sure she gets some social interaction and some exercising and then starts real school next year, I’m ok with that. If they lock her away again for a year I’ll call shenanigans. 

[VCRTracking]

37 minutes ago, Ottis said:

On 10/28/2017 at 1:40 AM, EarlGreyTea said:

To me, the Demagorgon and the UpsIde Down is a mere plotline. What kept me watching was the kids’ friendship.

And I was the opposite. I kept wanting the kids, in their various combinations, off my screen and I wanted to know more about why this evil thing existed, what it wanted and how it knew about our world. El was the one exception, because that actress was so good.

And I like both. I love the kids including El AND I was very intrigued by the mystery.

[Helena Dax]

On 2/11/2017 at 4:33 PM, Dev F said:

 

The first reason it seems likely to me is that it would make Billy basically Henry Bowers from It, which seems like exactly the sort of reference the Duffers would draw from.

Yes, I was thinking of HB all the time, but imo, Billy got more scenes than he deserved, given his lack of purpose within the story. Also, I find him completely ridiculous and over the top. He's one of the worst things of this second season. I can't say I enjoyed Eleven when she wasn't with Hopper, either. Sometimes, there's something about a fictional character that makes you very aware than he/she's a fictional character and not a real person and Eleven gives me that vibe. Like the writers are trying too hard to make her look very cool and intense or something like that.

Nancy and Jonathan bored me to death.

The best parts? Steve, who made me think of Brand in The Goonies. His relationship with Dustin, who is adorable. Bob, omg, I loved him so much. He was a human teddy bear. Hopper, who was amazing. The actor who plays him deserves all the Emmys. The kid who plays Will is also great (well, all the kids are, tbh). Paul Reiser, because I have a soft spot for him since My Two Dads. I'm so glad he wasn't evil! Nancy dancing with Dustin, Dustin's hair, Eleven touching his teeth, the science teacher, Dustin's mom, Max's mom, Winona being a badass.

[Robert Lynch]

I never realized that that the actress playing Dustin's mother is the same one from OITNB! 

[rove4]

Finally finished the season.  Overall while I did think there were several really good moments, I didn't think that the whole was as good as the whole of the first season. That said, I liked that the season allowed for some mixing up of the cast.

- Steve was such a douche for most of season one so the fact that I was afraid he'd die protecting the kids means his character has come a long way.  The pairing of him and Dustin worked on so many levels.  And yes,      Steve, you are an awesome babysitter.  

- MIke and Will. The scenes with Will were about the only times this season when I liked Mike.  He was rude to Max, distanced from Lucas and Dustin and just plain emo.  

- Hopper and Eleven.  This was my favorite pairing and the relationship that I cared about the most. I love that they made up and that he is now Eleven's/Jane's legal father. 

- Hopper and Joyce.  I loved all their scenes and wish there had been more of them. Bob was a super great guy and I was sad...and horrified...over his brutal end.  He went out a hero though.  Even so, I totally ship Joyce and Hopper, right along with my eleven year old daughter.  :-)

Other random thoughts:

- Billy really ended up not serving any purpose.  The writers could've just introduced Max sans any psycho step-brother and the story wouldn't have skipped a beat.  Then again, we wouldn't have gotten the badass scene of her coming the rescue by jabbing psycho Billy in the neck with the syringe while the boys stood in shock.

- I really wish that Mike and Eleven had both come around to being more accepting of Max.  

- I couldn't care less about any of the middle school romances.  

- The scene with Mike's mom and Billy was super creepy.

- It was so cool of Nancy to come to Dustin's aid so he wouldn't be the poor, rejected wallflower and for assuring him that things will get better.

- Steve accepting the fact that Nancy has moved on was sort of my last test for whether or not he had truly grown as a character and he passed. 

-  I also think the doctor's line about waiting a year (in regards to Eleven) allows for a time jump which, in turn, allows for the child actor's natural growth.

Edited November 12, 2017 by rove4

[VCRTracking]

14 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Yes, I was thinking of HB all the time, but imo, Billy got more scenes than he deserved, given his lack of purpose within the story. Also, I find him completely ridiculous and over the top. He's one of the worst things of this second season. I can't say I enjoyed Eleven when she wasn't with Hopper, either. Sometimes, there's something about a fictional character that makes you very aware than he/she's a fictional character and not a real person and Eleven gives me that vibe. Like the writers are trying too hard to make her look very cool and intense or something like that.

I'd replace "ridiculous" with "gloriously" because when he isn't being terrifying I found him hilarious. Smoking while lifting weights and listening to heavy metal? Loved it. I mean season 1 had popular minor characters that stood out because of their unique look(Barb and Steve).

As for El I don't think they tried hard to make her cool and intense this season, just the opposite. It may have been my least favorite episode but I liked that she was on a personal journey and seeing everything from her POV. She wasn't just Mike's lost love or Hopper's surrogate daughter or the Deux Ex Machina that saves the day. She was a young girl trying to find her own path.

[Robert Lynch]

I think Finn is going to have a busy career with the sequel to It in the works and he has other projects as well. I think the reason why he was used so little in the 2nd Season because he is getting bigger roles now. Gaten and Caleb are the only ones that don't get film roles like Finn. Noah is also getting film roles, so the Wil character may or may not take a back seat in the next season.

[snickers]

I thought the special effects this season were much improved, and I liked that we saw Lucas’s parents this season and as others have said I never thought going back to the first few episodes of this show I’d like Steve. 

 

But  I didn’t like how Nancy and johnathon didn’t have much of a purpose besides getting together, I didn’t like the El separatation for so long but I got why it happened, and while I’m assuming max’s family will have a bigger role to play later I just felt like her and the brother were filler at times, but i did read on here some interesting theories on what the brothers future could be. 

 

Am am I the only one who thought a Bob was originally a plant from the lab?Lol

 

as for Steve, while I liked that he was with the kids, I hope if he does stick around for season 3 they give him more to do, the triangle is getting old and they can’t have him hanging with middle schoolers for the rest of the series. I actually prefer Nancy with Jonathan but even their storyline was disappointing/dull.

 

Count me in with those who like El with hopper.

Edited November 12, 2017 by snickers

[blueray]

21 hours ago, snickers said:

Am am I the only one who thought a Bob was originally a plant from the lab?Lol

 

No, I did too up to like episode 6. Sorry Bob...

Edited November 13, 2017 by blueray

[cardigirl]

On 11/11/2017 at 11:02 PM, rove4 said:

 The scene with Mike's mom and Billy was super creepy.

 

See, I enjoyed that scene. Had me chuckling a lot. She's in the bath reading a romance novel with a long-haired muscular man on the cover and then lo and behold that man is standing at her door. And Billy knew how to turn on the charm. I don't know what they can do with Billy's character next season, I don't know if they can give him a redemption arc, like they did Steve. But having his father turn out to be an abusive bad guy certainly complicates the audience's feelings about him.

[ghoulina]

I had a few skeptical thoughts about Bob. I, too, though maybe the lab guys planted him there to keep a closer eye on Joyce and Will. But then I reminded myself that he was someone she'd known since high school and owned an electronics store of some sort. So that story line wouldn't really work. I'm glad it didn't. Bob was awesome. 

[Mabinogia]

The second I realized Bob was exactly what he appeared to be, just a nice guy who has feelings for Joyce, I knew he was doomed. I'm not happy about it. I enjoyed Bob a lot, thought he was great for Joyce and the boys, and it would have been refreshing for her to not end up with Hopper as was obvious from about episode one of season one. Oh well, Bob, you died a hero!

I loved the super sleezy scene with Billy and Mike's mom. I was dying laughing at how easily he had her wrapped around his little finger and he knew it. I hope they don't redeem him like they did Steve. The show needs bad guys who aren't the BIG BAD GUYS because life is full of creeps and they don't all work for some sketchy lab. I also hope they don't unredeem Steve. How did he become my favorite character? Oh Steve, you stole my heart. Nancy really blew it. She can have Jonathan. Steve is the real catch.

[VCRTracking]

23 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

How did he become my favorite character? Oh Steve, you stole my heart. Nancy really blew it. She can have Jonathan. Steve is the real catch.

For me it was when he told off his asshole friends and went to wipe the graffiti calling Nancy a slut on the movie theater.

He really is the "Cordelia Chase" of the show. I always thought if anyone else had played Cordelia on Buffy the Vampire Slayer other than Charisma Carpenter she would have stayed a hateable bitch antagonist. Same with Steve. The Duffer Brothers themselves said they liked Joe Keery so much they wanted to redeem him. There's just something about both actors where you want to like them and want them alongside the good guys.

[Ravenya003]

On 14/11/2017 at 10:16 AM, ghoulina said:

I had a few skeptical thoughts about Bob. I, too, though maybe the lab guys planted him there to keep a closer eye on Joyce and Will. But then I reminded myself that he was someone she'd known since high school and owned an electronics store of some sort. So that story line wouldn't really work. I'm glad it didn't. Bob was awesome. 

Yeah, as soon as they dropped the line about Bob and Joyce going to school together, I knew he was a good guy (and a dead one).

 

On 14/11/2017 at 10:24 AM, Mabinogia said:

I loved the super sleezy scene with Billy and Mike's mom. I was dying laughing at how easily he had her wrapped around his little finger and he knew it.

In all honesty, if I had been in Mike's mum's state of mind and opened the door on Billy ... I probably would have fallen for his act too. He really knew how to turn on the charm.

[SparklesBitch]

I loved this episode! 

Someone really needs to hand Noah Schnapp a bunch of awards. That exorcism scene was creepy and disturbing and amazing. 

I loved that Joyce was obviously willing to go to extreme lengths to protect her son, all the way to burning the monster out of him. That took an insane amount of courage. Loved Nancy taking the red hot poker to Will to facilitate the process. 

Hopper’s scene with Mike was great, as was his scene with El in the car on the way to the lab. I liked that he understood Mike’s emotions and that he apologized to El. I was so glad that he legally and permanently took her in. I figured that Dr. Paul Reiser was going to make it if only to do that for them. 

Loved everything about Steve babysitting the kids, especially him freaking out in the backseat while Max drove. Dustin telling him over and over not to freak out because he insisted that they bring Steve along instead of leaving him behind and that Dustin promised he’d be cool cracked me up. I also don’t think I’ve ever cheered so loudly as I did when Max stabbed Billy in the neck with the syringe needle. Go girl! 

I wasn’t expecting to feel a little bad for Dart, but I did. 

Watching El close that gate while Hopper backed her up was all kinds of intense, but it was then I saw the point of her meeting Kali. She had to learn to channel all her hatred and pain and emotion into her powers. 

I was so happy to see that they all got to go to the dance!! 

I feel like I shouldn’t be as invested in the Mike/El relationship as I am because they’re so young, but they’re so sweet! I think the little peck of a kiss that they shared was a cute touch. I totally understand the argument that these kids are way too young for this, but these aren’t really normal circumstances. They have those intense feelings of first young love plus shared trauma. I think there’s always a chance that it’ll cool off and they’ll end up just friends. Who knows, but for now I like that they finally have each other. 

I also thought that Max and Lucas were cute and got a kick out of Lucas talking to himself in the mirror. 

It broke my heart that Dustin had nobody to dance with, but Nancy swooping in and giving him that pep talk was perfect. Good for her. Also, I LOVED that Dustin did his hair like Steve’s!! So funny. 

Billy charming the pants off Mrs. Wheeler, the most clueless Mom in all of Hawkins, was equal parts amusing and disturbing to me. He just makes my skin crawl.....and how did she not see through him? Ugh.

I shamelessly adored every second of Joyce and Hopper hanging out in the parking lot. The show would totally still work without any romantic pairings at all, but Joyce and Hopper give me happy butterflies. Lol! 

Overall, I thought this was a great season finale. 

[ghoulina]

On 11/15/2017 at 2:11 PM, Ravenya003 said:

In all honesty, if I had been in Mike's mum's state of mind and opened the door on Billy ... I probably would have fallen for his act too. He really knew how to turn on the charm.

And, let's be honest, with Mike's dad falling asleep in his chair every night after dinner, it wouldn't take much to charm Mrs. Wheeler.