S02.E02: A Manny-Splendored Thing

[CPMOMMM]

 Jack doesn't die in Vietnam. Remember in the first season episode 18 Moonshadow  when he was helping the old lady Mrs Peabody  with her car she said "how did you came back from Vietnam so nice? Seems like most of the boys  lose their dam minds over there.." If Jack dies when the kids are 17 and they were born in 1980 that would make it he dies in 1997 and the Vietnam War was way over.

[methodwriter85]

12 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

She kind of does. She acts like she cant move her head from side to side. Drives me crazy. Her head looks like its stuck in one place.

Mandy Moore was coached by experts on how to movie like a 60-something woman. She also walks a little slower and with a more measured stride.

Although I've met people Rebecca's age who have the pep and walk of a 40-year old.

Edited October 5, 2017 by methodwriter85

[KateeBar]

This was a tough episode for me, in an emotional way. My dad was an alcoholic, and went away for treatment when I was 9 or so, as my parents were also divorcing. During that time, some of the things my mom said and did wounded me to the point I feel them today. I know now, with adulthood and therapy, that her own pain probably drove some of that. But I'm now a middle-aged woman who can still be triggered really easily by her, no matter how I try to be the bigger person. Now that we are in TMI territory...all that was to say I totally understood Kate tonight. She was rude and bratty and should do better, but I 100% get it over here in unpopular opinion corner. 

And damn it Toby, do not make me like you. The center cannot hold. 

[Violetgoblin6]

21 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

That's all changing this year, but it was a pretty nice touch. I live in Delaware but got a used car in PA last year. It had a 5/17 sticker on the windshield, meaning the sticker must have been bought in May 2016. In Delaware we just have the license plate stickers.

If we go by the Steelers jersey and it being football season, then it has to be anywhere from September 1997 to January 1998.

Yup. I was registered in Delaware for many years. Loved the lack of yearly inspection! Now I'm in PA. I'm thinking the fire occurred in late September of 1997. Perhaps the 28th when the Steelers played the Oilers. There was green foliage on the trees at the funeral. Plus Rebecca wore no jacket. That may mean nothing, however. 

[dju]

18 hours ago, debraran said:

I thought a really mean comment her Mom could have made back to her (but am glad she didn't) after her "you exist" comment, and Kate wanted her to say something mean to her, would  be, "I'm sorry it wasn't me" re Jack's death.

1

I was definitely waiting for her to put down some version of the 'I know you preferred him and I'm sorry you're stuck with me' card but appreciate that this would've been somewhat OOC for her to do, but I wanted Rebecca to defend herself a little more forcefully because as mentioned several times, Kate's anger and vitriol towards her mother, from what we've seen, seems unjustified if it's solely about the subtle criticism and the critiques disguised as compliments that have been happening for all her life. 

This might be me misinterpreting Mandy Moore's portrayal of older Rebecca, but I always feel like she's playing her as somewhat submissive, wounded almost. It could be that Rebecca, as Kate does, carries with her great guilt for Jack's death and feels as though she deserves any manifestation of blame that her children give her whether this is through misguided anger or distance. Teen!Kate! throwing shade at her mom in that scene actually said a lot to me about the way Kate saw Jack - as someone she needs to protect and defend and be on the side of even irrationally so. I don't know, it would make more sense to me if blaming or even subconsciously resenting Rebecca for Jack's life were apart of why she adult!Kate~ felt so upset with her mom.

Edited October 6, 2017 by dju

[qtpye]

On 10/4/2017 at 8:53 AM, Crs97 said:

Except it is the second time Kate's ultimate complaint has nothing to do with what Rebecca said or did and just centered on her being:  (1) her talk with the boss's daughter about how she wished she had a better relationship with her own mom, but her mom is like a super model; and (2) this talk that Rebecca's existence is the real problem.  Also, the show has shown that Kate's freak-out hasn't been when her mom said something, but when she realized her mom was thinner/sang better.  Yes, her mom gave her a grapefruit (that her dad completely undermined), but by that night Rebecca realized she was wrong in how she handled things and told her they would both just try to be healthier in their choices.  Yes, she gave her constructive criticism about holding the note longer, but then took the afternoon to make her a pretty dress in her size to build her confidence.  I am tired of people expecting mothers to be perfect and crucifying them when they aren't.  Jack can say he is an alcoholic and gets the hands to face gesture.  Mom sings in the shower and is told Kate would be better off if Rebecca were dead.  I may have to give up this show.

 

 

On 10/4/2017 at 9:50 AM, laurakaye said:

Happy to know I'm not the only one who struggles with where people are living. :)

Are we to assume that Kate is still a personal assistant to the Jamie Gertz character?  Did she actually ever quit that job?  But it does beg the question of what the heck does she do all day except resent her mother and pretend at singing.

 

 

On 10/4/2017 at 11:07 AM, laurakaye said:

This.  Mother/daughter relationships are complex, and no one can hurt a mother like her daughter.  But this line seemed especially hurtful, considering that Kate has already lost her father.  I wondered if what she was actually saying was that she resented Rebecca for being alive when Jack is not.  Still, based on what we've seen so far it seems like an extreme thing for her to say, unless this show is going to take us down a much darker path.

 

On 10/4/2017 at 1:59 PM, CaughtOnTape said:

I guess that's where my problem lies with Kate and why I dislike her so much.  She's slapped all of this onto her mother even though her mother hasn't really done a whole lot to her.  What Kate said was unnecessarily harsh and meant to land a punch whereas nothing Rebecca has done has seemed to be with malicious intent.  As a ten year old she was trying to relate to her daughter by offering her pointers on her singing as well as making her a dress she thought would help her feel pretty.  As an adult, her mother recognized there is a disconnect and was trying to relate through her own experiences as a singer and then wanted to support her daughter by going to see her big moment.  Kate assigning all these nefarious feelings to those things rings...well...entitled.  And Rebecca isn't the only person she's done this to.  Kate just seems to be one of those people who needs people to bend over backwards for her or she feels slighted.  Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense because she wasn't neglected as a child either of her parents by any stretch.

Kate needs a big old dose of "Your parents are human and they make mistakes" before I'm about to change my view at this point.  Because from where I sit, she's rude and unfair without getting a whole lot of understanding as to why...other than that's just how she is.  Which is...entitled.

 

On 10/4/2017 at 4:00 PM, tennisgurl said:

I can understand Kate's issues with Rebecca. I really can. My mom can be a bit like that, always offering "helpful" comments about my clothes, my home decor, my school work back when I was a student, etc. but I have long since made peace with the fact that she is just like that, and she means well. It can be hurtful and feeling criticized by your mom is REALLY painful to many girls and women, so I sympathize. 

However, I think Kate went too far this episode. As a kid, I can understand her resentment towards her "perfect" mom, but as an adult in her 30s? Not so much. Telling Rebecca that her mere existence was upsetting to her, and then blaming her for all the awful things she said? That was a seriously low blow. And it wasn't even anything Rebecca actually did. Maybe say something about her criticisms inside of her her compliments (even though Rebecca clearly does mean well as well) but not how Rebecca being pretty and thin and having a nice voice itself is offensive to her. What should Rebecca do, just never talk to Kate again? Wear a giant bag and a fat suit every time she visits? And she never even apologized! I think my biggest problem with Kate is that she never really takes responsibility for her own shortcomings. While every character on this show has issues and personality flaws, most of all them have admitted to their issues, and are trying to take responsibility. Kate always seems to blame other people. Usually she blames everything on people treating her badly because of her weight (like last week with the band leader), and now everything's her moms fault, even Kate being awful to her. It seems very immature and self centered. 

I remember in the pilot, it seemed like Kate really had one ambition in life "To marry a guy like Dad and raise a family like mom".  This probably intensified with Jack's unexpected passing.  I do not think she has Oedipal feelings for her father, but that is exactly what she wants in a man.  Handsome, strong, loving, and in her eyes perfect, even with the drinking.  Jack also indulged her and made her feel special, beautiful, and loved.

However, it is obvious to her that guys like Jack do not marry girls like her.  I am sure she has heard the story of how her parents met (minus the intended robbery) and knows her father was blown away by her mom's beauty and lovely voice the first time he set eyes on her.

Kate does not want a sclubby Toby, she wants a perfect Jack.

Rebecca was so excited her daughter liked to sing and tried to be the encouraging mother she never had.  However, Kate looked at her existence as a slap in the face.  Yes, Kate probably has to deal with people being shocked that beautiful Rebecca has a chubby daughter.  This is not Rebecca's fault, but Kate looks at her mother as symbol of everything she will never have.  There is nothing Rebecca can do until Kate deals with these feelings.  Kate is both entitled and insecure...this is not a good combination.

[TaylorTalk]

I get why Kate is hypersensitive to Rebecca's support.  They're ever so underhandedly designed to inject doubt.

 

Like for the school recital.  You don't tell your kid that she's going to do great, yet offer a correction right before the performance.

 

You encourage your kid to practice, then the day of, if your kid isn't prepared, then your kid learns that if you fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

 

This is exactly what happened to Kate for that audition where she ranted at skinny bitches.

 

She really did feel like she was just as good as the other girls, even though, as the director stated, all these other girls have been showing up at open mics since they were 15.

 

Kate's angry at every helicpter mom support comment she received from rebecca, because they stunted her from what she really needed.  Encouragment to work hard and learn, and accept constructive criticism from teachers and mentors.
 

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, dju said:

Kate's anger and vitriol towards her mother, from what we've seen, seems unjustified if it's solely about the subtle criticism and the critiques disguised as compliments that have been happening for all her life. 

Such comments sufficed to make me say much worse things to my mother. Just because it's unjustified from a neutral, outside perspective doesn't mean that the pain doesn't build up and up over the years so that inocuous comments can trigger a vicious response.

[Casually Observant]

On 10/3/2017 at 7:08 PM, Katy M said:

"But, as far as Rebecca goes, I think Kate needs to get over herself.  Here's what I saw.  Rebecca gave her helpful advice about holding the last note longer.  Rebecca sang in the shower and Kate overheard her.  Rebecca said she looked great.  And she went to see her sing.  All the problems were caused by Kate's reactions and oversensitivities. " 

Rebecca was a very nice mother to Kate and could have been cruel, mocking, punitive and unsupportive. Jack was ridiculously kind to Kate. But what they failed to do was help her lose weight.  That is totally on them. Too bad they didn't seek medical care, athletics or something.  No obese child should stay that way if the parents are involved.  But Kate's current issues are her own. She wants to stay forever a victim and that makes her unlikeable as a character. 

"So, the whole family flew cross country to watch Kevin and the only ones that watched were Miguel and the girls.  That's kind of funny."

This really irked me.  They are so selfish and narcissistic, except for Miguel!  Beth  - Oh brother.  First, when she hears the live taping may last a few hours, she acts all annoyed. What a piece of entitled crap. Does she get up in the middle of a movie at the theater because it goes on longer than her 20 minute attention span? I bet not. It's just Randall's family she can't tolerate. Sheesh.

Then Beth's ridiculous demands that Randall fill out the paperwork at the show (What? Are they going to fax them at midnight to the lady at the Child Services across the country who has gone home for the night anyway?) Then, she gets up from the prime front row seats, causing a scene and then storming out right beforehand?  So selfish. And Randall following her out and not bringing her RIGHT BACK IN so as to not disrupt the show. Ugh. I can't stand them.  Then Kate being so willing to just leave at the drop of a hat, with no notice whatsoever to go sing one song at a smoky bar for free. Really? She had no problems walking out of her brother's live taping of his show?  Ugh.  Selfish, entitled, juvenile.  Toby should have told her, "No, tell them you can't make it. Giving you only 20 minutes notice to drop everything and sub-in for one lousy song is not worth it. You have other plans."  But no, Kate leaves, Toby follows and Rebecca abandones Kevin also.  So thoughtless, selfish and just unbelievable.  I would hate them all if I were Kevin.

Side Note: Was no one else annoyed at the bar owner? At the end of Kate's song he said something to the effect of, "Well...maybe we'll call you again sometime?" 

Unsaid was this: "See ya.  Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.  Grab a few pretzels for payment." And Kate was like, "Great, Great, yeah, O.K., totally.  I'll come running whenever you call."  Pathetic.

"I like Sophie, but man that was idiotic of her to ask Kevin to do that.  It's not like they were in the privacy of their own home.  Of course that wouldn't go over well.  I'm also not really understanding the episode. "  Yeah, that made no sense to me at all.  I mean who would do that?

 

 

On 10/3/2017 at 7:34 PM, Jodithgrace said:

I remember an episode of 30Something (yes, I'm old) where the lead character, Hope's, parents were coming to visit, and Hope was freaking out much like Kate. Hope described her mother as this overbearing, hyper-critical monster and I was totally shocked when the mother turned out to be perfectly nice. Hope, however, was the monster, twisting everything her mother said, and taking offense.

Well, it's not surprising we are finding some borrowed storylines, considering Ken Olin and Timothy Busfield were actors on 'ThirtySomething' and are now Directors on This Is Us.

On 10/3/2017 at 8:01 PM, Quickbeam said:

I didn’t like it either, my least favorite episode of the series. It all felt way too disjointed. It annoyed me that everyone felt they could just leave Kevin’s show. 

Yup. Bordering on slapstick if it wasn't so serious. Just incredible selfishness and narcissism all around.

On 10/3/2017 at 8:11 PM, Crs97 said:

Wow, I wondered if we would get to the point that Rebecca's mere existence was enough to make her wrong.  What a cruel, awful, mind-blowingly heinous thing Kate said to her mother, and then she blames her mother for "making" her say it and ruining her big night?!?  What we have seen of Kate's torturous childhood with a terrible mother is (1) Rebecca telling her she is beautiful and then Kate realizing she wears a larger size than her mom does, and (2) Rebecca making her a beautiful dress and then Kate realizing her mother can sing better than she can.  Kate has always been a stone cold bitch, but she really took it up a notch tonight.  Could not be more Team Anti-Kate if I tried;  she is truly the worst waste of oxygen and I see no path to redemption.  I couldn't get into how supposedly sweet the Jack/Kate moments were because he couldn't be bothered to defend his wife from the "queen" remark beyond a wimpy "be nicer to your mother, Kate."  Too bad she couldn't have been in the fire with him.

Yup. I agree with this.

"I love the twist that Kevin was Randall's cyrano.  Beth was being ultra rude to/about Kevin tonight so I loved that she knows now she fell for all the lines of someone she clearly thinks is beneath her.

Again, I don't know why they write Beth as such an angry, entitled character.  I think she never got on board the fact that Randall has a white family. She just seems unreceptive to all of them, all the time.

 That was a very sweet moment from Kevin about his brother.  Almost made up for his continuing rudeness to Miguel for wanting a selfie. "

Yeah, I didn't get the rudeness to Miguel on that selfie thing either.  

 

On 10/3/2017 at 10:23 PM, pennben said:

Okay, I wasn't going to say anything about this, but your comment has clearly 'forced' me to:)  I'm not sure if it's an age thing, a completely different sort of relationship I had growing up, or an Oedipal thing, but I found it a bit creepy with young Kate cupping her father's face in her hands several times this evening.  Eeeep! And, just no.

You and hundreds more of us felt the same way.  Littlest Kate was tolerable, but teenage Kate was a big NOPE for me. NOPE, NOPE, NOPE. It looked like she was going in for a sexy kiss, there for a sec.

On 10/4/2017 at 0:31 PM, Blakeston said:

I've always wanted to know - is The Manny supposed to be a satire of something specific? Because if it isn't, it's truly bizarre to me.

I get that there are plenty of incredibly stupid shows out there, and This is Us wanted to lampoon them, but "shirtless guy is bad at watching a baby" is so far removed from any sitcom I've ever seen that it doesn't feel like satire.

I'm pretty sure this is a parody of BABY DADDY. You've got two handsome guys who play brothers on that, and the taller, older one who happens to be very buff is always walking around without his shirt on to the constant swoons of the live audience.  (I watched a live taping of that show and the actors were all adorable. The guys were really handsome in person, too!)

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Casually Observant said:

 

 

Well, it's not surprising we are finding some borrowed storylines, considering Ken Olin and Timothy Busfield were actors on 'ThirtySomething' and are now Directors on This Is Us.

Yup. Bordering on slapstick if it wasn't so serious. Just incredible selfishness and narcissism all around.

 

You and hundreds more of us felt the same way.  Littlest Kate was tolerable, but teenage Kate was a big NOPE for me. NOPE, NOPE, NOPE. It looked like she was going in for a sexy kiss, there for a sec.

I'm pretty sure this is a parody of BABY DADDY. You've got two handsome guys who play brothers on that, and the taller, older one who happens to be very buff is always walking around without his shirt on to the constant swoons of the live audience.  (I watched a live taping of that show and the actors were all adorable. The guys were really handsome in person, too!)

I remember watching that show in reruns when my son was a baby, re Thirtysomething show. I didn't hear about them being directors, last I heard about Busfield, was his marriage to Melissa Gilbert.

I think all of us have views on parents that are skewed a bit. I'm surprised when my 22 year old says I did something 10 years ago she didn't think was supportive or I didn't encourage her enough to do a instrument (I feel I did) If I compliment, "I'm the mom" it doesn't matter as much, if I'm honest/balanced, I get "thanks Mom, you are supposed to be just supportive"  (SCREAM) Seriously though, we all have baggage with parents and depending on your personality and theirs, it is mild or severe. No one is perfect. Rebecca wasn't perfect and neither was Jack. He just wanted the love and balanced being the "good guy" and getting all the love. Maybe one day she'll see that we all are responsible for our feelings and all she has to say is, "you say this, I hear that" and I'm sorry, but we can work on it. Does she ever tell Rebecca how she sees her comments? As I got older and matured, my criticism softened and I understood a lot more, one sibling of mine seemed stuck in being a teen. I wonder if Rebecca being 37 will ever show responsibility for her own actions and I'm glad the audition went the way it did, it was like a wake-up call. If her mother told her she had to work on her singing, it wouldn't have gone well, but a disinterested person, she will hear differently.

It's not healthy to just be a cheerleader for someone, Mom's do that but if you ignore everything else, never offer an opinion that is contrary, that is bizarre.

There is definitely some weird vibe with older Kate gushing over her Dad, you can feel the tension between her and her Mom and father, like a competition.

Edited October 6, 2017 by debraran

[JudyObscure]

Best part of this episode:  Some good long shots of Annie and Tess, the two cutest little actresses ever.  I had been worried that Annie would have grown out of whatever quality she has that makes me go, "Look!Look at her!" to my husband who's usually trying to do work on the computer when this comes on. 

[NutMeg]

I think there were many reasons why the "face cupping" was disturbing: 1) a child is comforting a parent for a problem she can't understand (addiction, not little booboo) by repeating a gesture used by the adult to reassure the child; 2) the parent lets the child comfort him; and 3) even worse, the parent is seeking comfort from his child in the first place, which is seriously messed up, and makes the child the "parent" in the situation, so back to my point 1. By treating Kate like an adult or even like his comfort blanket, Jack is forcing her to react as an parent, or how she thinks an adult/parent would react. And of course the weird visual and length of the scene make it even more awkward.

8 hours ago, dju said:

This might be me misinterpreting Mandy Moore's portrayal of older Rebecca, but I always feel like she's playing her as somewhat submissive, wounded almost. It could be that Rebecca, as Kate does, carries with her great guilt for Jack's death and feels as though she deserves any manifestation of blame that her children give her whether this is through misguided anger or distance. Teen!Kate! throwing shade at her mom in that scene actually said a lot to me about the way Kate saw Jack - as someone she needs to protect and defend and be on the side of even irrationally so. I don't know, it would make more sense to me if blaming or even subconsciously resenting Rebecca for Jack's life were apart of why she adult!Kate~ felt so upset with her mom.

I agree on how older Rebecca seems to have lost the spark she used to have and to take any attack as if she deserves it somehow. With this show, I'm sure there is a scene in the future where Kate and Rebecca finally talk about their respective guilt and TPTB will gleefully warn us to expect to shed mucho tears.

The most ridiculous 180 is Beth's. After the season opener, you'd think she would be thanking her lucky stars that Randall is now having cold feet re. the adoption (or is it fostering?). But noooooooo, she urges him on instead. What the what? Either it's some weird reverse psychology thing she's developed since the end of the first season, or she only wants it because it's her idea, dammit, which is also a very different behaviour from how she was in season 1, where she would grumble but do exactly what Randall wanted (except for the one time when she "called marriage").

In a way, Kevin, while I feel for him being unable to ever matter the most to any of his parents, might be the lucky one, because he's clearly the most well-adjusted of the three, and I think he might be the one who would expect the least from the important relationships in his life. Last week, just the fact that Sophie showed up at all made his day (makes sense, he grew up expecting people to bail on him!), while Kate would have expected Toby to pick her up and shower her with attention, even bad jokes, and Randall would have expected Beth to show up with an adopted baby that she would have picked up after secretly signed up the adoption papers, or any other fancy of his that day. 

So in that way Kevin is rather refreshing and low maintenance :) He's probably just happy that Rebecca showed up at all, and Randall, et al., and probably relieved that his brother didn't have a panic attack but just a pressing talk to have with his wife. Kevin is also the only one who's showed some growth since the pilot, while the other two alternate steps forward and (or so it feels) more steps back.

And JudyObscure, yeah to your post above, I too think Annie is the cutest little actress on TV :)    

[Nikki55x]

On 10/3/2017 at 10:04 PM, RogerDodger said:

Kevin helping Randall ask Beth out seems to go against everything we've been told about their relationship during their teenage years.

They were in college not high school when he saw Beth. The brothers relationship could have changed by then. 

[laurakaye]

I'm trying to understand why Jack and Rebecca so hard-core favor one child over another.  They present themselves as this wonderful loving family with The Big Three, and yet they leave one kid to kind of fend for himself.  In the diner scene where Jack and Rebecca told the kids about their separation, Kate storms off and Jack tells Kevin to go after her.  I get the show's reason for doing so, to tell us about the closeness of Kate and Kevin.  But why should Kevin have to go after his sister and comfort her?  What about Kevin's feelings?  He's just dealt some devastating news, and then Jack tells him to go chase after his sister.  I am not a huge Jack fan, but it made me think that under the King Jack facade, he's kind of a jerk.

 

22 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I find Kate to be a very unlikable character. I enjoy teenager Kate, but adult Kate has a problem with every single thing in life that anyone does. Almost every episode that I remember this far, she has been upset and a debbie downer. Everything Toby does is wrong. Everything her mother does is wrong. Everything other random people do is wrong. She auditions for the band and the guy decides to go with someone else as lead singer, so he's wrong as well. I understand she has insecurities, but that doesn't mean she has to be so annoying. And I don't mind Toby for the most part, but his obsession with Kate bugs me. He's just so over the top with declaring his love for her at all times. It's like ok Toby, we get it. You love her.

Another example of how this show is doing the "tell, don't show" instead of "show, don't tell."  I see zero closeness between Kate and Toby, zero warmth.  In fact, the scene last season where Kate and Toby ran up the stairs at Randall's house to have some fun times seemed completely out of character for them.  Toby loves Kate in his weird over-the-top way, but Kate treats Toby as someone she's just settling for.

 

20 hours ago, Jillybean said:

For that matter, why didn't Toby leave with Kate? It made no sense for them to drive separately to the Manny taping or to her gig.

And what happened to Kate's car?  Didn't they all leave the show together?  Did she leave her car at the gig?  Niggling details that shouldn't get glossed over in favor of making a story.

[BlancheDevoreaux]

22 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Also, if Beth was my sister-in-law, I wouldn't like her. There's something very cold about her in my opinion. She's obviously a good person, but whenever she's on the screen I just feel like she's constantly being bitchy to everyone in her sight. 

I don't think she is cold as much as she is arrogant and a snob.  She gives off the impression that she knows what is correct and only her way is the correct way.  Anyone who disagrees is wrong and therefore a complete idiot that is is being forced to interact with, but that doesn't mean she has to like it.

 

Then again, Beth is easily my least favorite character.

[Jax7917]

4 minutes ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

I don't think she is cold as much as she is arrogant and a snob.  She gives off the impression that she knows what is correct and only her way is the correct way.  Anyone who disagrees is wrong and therefore a complete idiot that is is being forced to interact with, but that doesn't mean she has to like it.

 

Then again, Beth is easily my least favorite character.

Yeah I'm not really sure why everyone gushes about her character. If I knew her in real life I wouldn't like her.

[SunnyBeBe]

19 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

If we quote from inside another quote (from the dark area) it will go under the name of the person who copied it.  For example if you take Suunybebe's quote here and put it in your next post it will say Judy Obscure above it.  So you have to go all the way back to Sunnybebe's original post to get it right.

Thanks Judy.  I'm not sure what happened.  I'll have to be more careful.  I don't want to misquote anyone.  

[qtpye]

9 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

I'm trying to understand why Jack and Rebecca so hard-core favor one child over another.  They present themselves as this wonderful loving family with The Big Three, and yet they leave one kid to kind of fend for himself.  In the diner scene where Jack and Rebecca told the kids about their separation, Kate storms off and Jack tells Kevin to go after her.  I get the show's reason for doing so, to tell us about the closeness of Kate and Kevin.  But why should Kevin have to go after his sister and comfort her?  What about Kevin's feelings?  He's just dealt some devastating news, and then Jack tells him to go chase after his sister.  I am not a huge Jack fan, but it made me think that under the King Jack facade, he's kind of a jerk.

 

Another example of how this show is doing the "tell, don't show" instead of "show, don't tell."  I see zero closeness between Kate and Toby, zero warmth.  In fact, the scene last season where Kate and Toby ran up the stairs at Randall's house to have some fun times seemed completely out of character for them.  Toby loves Kate in his weird over-the-top way, but Kate treats Toby as someone she's just settling for.

 

And what happened to Kate's car?  Didn't they all leave the show together?  Did she leave her car at the gig?  Niggling details that shouldn't get glossed over in favor of making a story.

I have a theory about Kate and Jack's bond.  I think that it goes beyond being Daddy's little girl.  I would not be surprised if Kate and Jack passively smack talked about Rebecca when they were together, based on the way Kate called Rebecca "Queen" in a snide way that made me think it might have been an inside joke between them.

I think Jack never felt good enough to be Rebecca's husband and Kate never felt good enough to be her daughter.  This is not Rebecca's fault, but it caused resentment with both of them.

Jack thinks of Rebecca has a beaitiful goddess that should of married a well off guy in a white collar profession.  He always seemed very insistant that he is the provider and Rebecca takes care of the home and family.  He wants his kids to have the happy childhood he never had, but it also keeps Rebecca close to him and keeps her from pursuing interests that would make her realize she can do better.  As Miguel said, in this world Jack married way above his league (something I do not agree with).

Jack is the reacher and Rebecca is the settler.

Kate is the cute overweight daughter of what is considered an amazingly beautiful woman in this world and that is tough in our shallow society.  The exotic Alexa Ray Joel was almost driven to suicide, because she did not have the all American looks of her mother.  Beyonce's daughter gets a lot of grief and she is just a child.

Rebecca is a loving mother to Kate overall, but just her existance reminds Kate that she will never get a Jack and has to settle for a Toby (which is kinda shallow on Kate's part).

[Jax7917]

One thing that annoys me about this show besides a majority of the characters is the fact that every story line has a moral and you know by the end of the episode,everything will get resolved. I'd rather Randall and Beth just disagree on things without a monologue at the end of every episode with Randall apologizing for how he felt or Jack saying the perfect thing all the time or everyone just being serious constantly. Lighten up people. I know it's a drama but can we have some moments where people are actually okay with being imperfect and not feel the need to make every moment a life lesson?

[MsChicklet]

2 hours ago, NutMeg said:

I think there were many reasons why the "face cupping" was disturbing: 1) a child is comforting a parent for a problem she can't understand (addiction, not little booboo) by repeating a gesture used by the adult to reassure the child; 2) the parent lets the child comfort him; and 3) even worse, the parent is seeking comfort from his child in the first place, which is seriously messed up, and makes the child the "parent" in the situation, so back to my point 1. By treating Kate like an adult or even like his comfort blanket, Jack is forcing her to react as an parent, or how she thinks an adult/parent would react. And of course the weird visual and length of the scene make it even more awkward.

This. Unfortunately, it rings true for addicts and their children. The child is often put into roles of caregiver, protector, defender, etc. Especially if that child is the "favored" child. Boy, did Kate need Alateen.

I hope the Pearson codependency issues are explored as the show goes on.

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

Kate is the cute overweight daughter of what is considered an amazingly beautiful woman in this world and that is tough in our shallow society.  The exotic Alexa Ray Joel was almost driven to suicide, because she did not have the all American looks of her mother.  Beyonce's daughter gets a lot of grief and she is just a child.

The more I think about it, the more I realize how rough it would be to be in Kate's position.

Being anything above a size 2 is rough when you live in LA - never mind being morbidly obese. And to be the only one with a weight problem in a family full of ridiculously fit people? Randall can't be the only one in that family who gets surprised looks when he introduces people to his siblings and/or parents.

And then for her twin to be a gorgeous celebrity? If Kevin were her twin sister rather than brother, her issues would probably be even worse.

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

And what happened to Kate's car?  Didn't they all leave the show together?  Did she leave her car at the gig?  Niggling details that shouldn't get glossed over in favor of making a story.

Maybe she took an uber. 

[ChromaKelly]

I just got around to watching last night. I echo a lot of what has already been said. I didn't hate Toby for once. Kate is just so blah. I can see her POV that all of Rebecca's comments built up over the years would get to her, but she was really unfair. Also, now that I'm a mother of tween girls, I can see Rebecca's side too. She was just excited that Kate was into singing and was trying to share that with her. I too got a weird vibe with the face-cupping. I hope it was a fluke. Sometimes it seems like actors don't know quite how to do parent/child affection and it comes off strange.
Saint Jack is too much. Ugh, I've had enough. He's even the perfect alcoholic! 
Beth was very WTF. Her hurry up and fill out the forms to Randall seemed out of left field. Could she give him some time? I agree that the taping wasn't the time or place for the discussion, but the forms should have really been left at home. It took us days to fill out our adoption paperwork. There were pretty much essay questions on it. I'm truly hating this storyline and the preview made me look forward to it even less.
Someone mentioned the "Where's Kevin? Oh yeah, he's dead" line and everyone abandoning the taping really reminded me of it. He's truly the middle child.
 

[CelticBlackCat]

12 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

I just got around to watching last night. I echo a lot of what has already been said. I didn't hate Toby for once. Kate is just so blah. I can see her POV that all of Rebecca's comments built up over the years would get to her, but she was really unfair. Also, now that I'm a mother of tween girls, I can see Rebecca's side too. She was just excited that Kate was into singing and was trying to share that with her. I too got a weird vibe with the face-cupping. I hope it was a fluke. Sometimes it seems like actors don't know quite how to do parent/child affection and it comes off strange.
Saint Jack is too much. Ugh, I've had enough. He's even the perfect alcoholic! 
Beth was very WTF. Her hurry up and fill out the forms to Randall seemed out of left field. Could she give him some time? I agree that the taping wasn't the time or place for the discussion, but the forms should have really been left at home. It took us days to fill out our adoption paperwork. There were pretty much essay questions on it. I'm truly hating this storyline and the preview made me look forward to it even less.
Someone mentioned the "Where's Kevin? Oh yeah, he's dead" line and everyone abandoning the taping really reminded me of it. He's truly the middle child.
 

Jack's even the perfect alcoholic!  Your line cracked me up so much!  :D  But seriously, Saint Jack isn't really an alcoholic; he has a "drinking problem" which just seems to pop up every few years. ;)

[timesywimesy]

On 10/6/2017 at 8:36 AM, Jaclyn88 said:

Yeah I'm not really sure why everyone gushes about her character. If I knew her in real life I wouldn't like her.

It would appear I have found my tribe!

I too find Beth to be smug and more than a tad self-righteous. Which bugs, Because Randall is hands-down my favorite character.

[Wings]

On 10/5/2017 at 4:26 PM, methodwriter85 said:

Mandy Moore was coached by experts on how to movie like a 60-something woman. She also walks a little slower and with a more measured stride.

Although I've met people Rebecca's age who have the pep and walk of a 40-year old.

This is ridiculous! People don't move differently at 60.  

[Clanstarling]

7 minutes ago, wings707 said:

This is ridiculous! People don't move differently at 60.  

Well...I objected to that observation as well, as I do walk with pep most of the time. But I realized there are some days when I do walk slower and more measured due to arthritis, among other things. And there are days when I am stiff and weary. And days when the threat of slipping and falling is no joke. Mileage on this one varies - as all things do - depending on how our individual bodies age. (I'm 61)

[ShadowFacts]

19 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Well...I objected to that observation as well, as I do walk with pep most of the time. But I realized there are some days when I do walk slower and more measured due to arthritis, among other things. And there are days when I am stiff and weary. And days when the threat of slipping and falling is no joke. Mileage on this one varies - as all things do - depending on how our individual bodies age. (I'm 61)

Absolutely, I'm so there with you on this, and just a smidge older than you.  I've definitely slipped on the ice more in the past couple years, and my balance isn't what it used to be, so I do walk more carefully at times.  Other times, I'm pretty zippy.  But definitely not like I was 30+ years ago.  And take a look at aging athletes.  They definitely move differently.  If we don't see it in people who are close to us, it's probably because the change is gradual and we see them often enough not to notice.  But it would be nice if people didn't move differently at 60.  Or see or hear . . .

[SunnyBeBe]

I could understand Randall having resentment towards his mom for keeping his bio dad a secret. I mean, that's pretty substantial, deliberate and calculating.  The stuff that Kate conjures up.......a bit overblown, imo.  I suppose the writers are stretching on it.   I mean, it is a dysfunctional family, right?  I mean...perfectly dysfunctional family.  Each character has to have their issue.

Edited October 8, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

I'm trying to understand why Jack and Rebecca so hard-core favor one child over another.  They present themselves as this wonderful loving family with The Big Three, and yet they leave one kid to kind of fend for himself.  In the diner scene where Jack and Rebecca told the kids about their separation, Kate storms off and Jack tells Kevin to go after her.  I get the show's reason for doing so, to tell us about the closeness of Kate and Kevin.  But why should Kevin have to go after his sister and comfort her?  What about Kevin's feelings?  He's just dealt some devastating news, and then Jack tells him to go chase after his sister.  I am not a huge Jack fan, but it made me think that under the King Jack facade, he's kind of a jerk.

As the mother of three, two daughters and a son, I can honestly say I don't "favor" any of my children, but I definitely have closer relationships with two of them. My oldest daughter has always been independent and thus we are not as close as I am with the other two. Maybe Kevin didn't always need Jack's and Rebecca's attention; he had confidence and was popular with his peers. 

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Aloeonatable said:

As the mother of three, two daughters and a son, I can honestly say I don't "favor" any of my children, but I definitely have closer relationships with two of them. My oldest daughter has always been independent and thus we are not as close as I am with the other two. Maybe Kevin didn't always need Jack's and Rebecca's attention; he had confidence and was popular with his peers. 

If you take his neglectful parents away, Kevin has lead a very charmed life.  He is incredibly handsome and popular.  He did not get great grades, but lucked his way into a career where he is a millionaire by his mid thirties ( in a field where very few people make it).  He really would have been a star in any other family, so he was not wrong about that, even if it was petty.

[OtterMommy]

3 hours ago, Aloeonatable said:

As the mother of three, two daughters and a son, I can honestly say I don't "favor" any of my children, but I definitely have closer relationships with two of them. My oldest daughter has always been independent and thus we are not as close as I am with the other two. Maybe Kevin didn't always need Jack's and Rebecca's attention; he had confidence and was popular with his peers. 

He may not have needed the extra attention (and I think the arguments that Randall and Kate did have validity), but the show has made a point of telling us that he wanted the attention that he didn't feel he was getting.

[topanga]

11 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

He may not have needed the extra attention (and I think the arguments that Randall and Kate did have validity), but the show has made a point of telling us that he wanted the attention that he didn't feel he was getting.

Plus Kevin stated very clearly to his parents--as an 8 year old-- that he felt neglected. That should have been a big wake up call for Jack and Rebecca. But it wasn't, apparently. 

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

Plus Kevin stated very clearly to his parents--as an 8 year old-- that he felt neglected. That should have been a big wake up call for Jack and Rebecca. But it wasn't, apparently. 

I remember his father apologizing to him for that pool incident, and also Jack spending time with Kevin building model airplanes. We have seen many times how Rebecca seems to not take as much interest in Kevin as an adult, but she seemed to care about him as a child.

[Crs97]

I seem to recall Rebecca started to go after Kevin at the pool, but Jack stopped her and said he wanted to handle it.

[JudyObscure]

It's a hard thing to say.  Do the needy children really need more attention or have they leaned how to get it? Are the independent ones that way because they learned at any early age that they have to take care of themselves because Mom's all wrapped up in the other ones?

One thing is sure, deciding that your eight year-old doesn't need to be watched at the pool is negligent parenting no matter how your "sensitive," kids are faring at the time.

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

It's a hard thing to say.  Do the needy children really need more attention or have they leaned how to get it? Are the independent ones that way because they learned at any early age that they have to take care of themselves because Mom's all wrapped up in the other ones?

One thing is sure, deciding that your eight year-old doesn't need to be watched at the pool is negligent parenting no matter how your "sensitive," kids are faring at the time.

No, deciding that the only child who doesn't know how to swim is the one you need to pay the least attention to at the pool is negligent parenting.  And, how did that happen anyway?  Why do Randall and Kate know how to swim and Kevin doesn't?  They stated that Randall could swim and I assumed Kate could since she asked the other girls if they wanted to play mermaid, and yet, Kevin, the exact same age as the other two, has never learned to swim.

[CelticBlackCat]

28 minutes ago, Katy M said:

No, deciding that the only child who doesn't know how to swim is the one you need to pay the least attention to at the pool is negligent parenting.  And, how did that happen anyway?  Why do Randall and Kate know how to swim and Kevin doesn't?  They stated that Randall could swim and I assumed Kate could since she asked the other girls if they wanted to play mermaid, and yet, Kevin, the exact same age as the other two, has never learned to swim.

Bad writing.  They needed to create drama at the pool.  Was it specifically stated that Kevin didn't know how to swim or did he know how, but just got caught up in a near-drowning episode?

[Katy M]

33 minutes ago, CelticBlackCat said:

Bad writing.  They needed to create drama at the pool.  Was it specifically stated that Kevin didn't know how to swim or did he know how, but just got caught up in a near-drowning episode?

I believe they said he couldn't swim.  Randall was specifically told to stay in the shallow end with him.

[chocolatine]

30 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I believe they said he couldn't swim.  Randall was specifically told to stay in the shallow end with him.

But it shouldn't have been Randall's job to ensure Kevin's safety, it should have been Jack and Rebecca's job.

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

But it shouldn't have been Randall's job to ensure Kevin's safety, it should have been Jack and Rebecca's job.

I never said it should have.  I was just stating what happened as best I remember.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

I thought Kevin was afraid to put his head under, so couldn't swim in deep water. If Kate and Randall conquered that fear early on—or never had it to begin with—they would've advanced in their swimming lessons faster than Kevin. 

 

Of course, it's been a minute since I watched that episode, so could well be this is something I invented in my own head. 

[laurakaye]

3 hours ago, chocolatine said:

But it shouldn't have been Randall's job to ensure Kevin's safety, it should have been Jack and Rebecca's job.

Same as it shouldn't have been Kevin's job to run after Kate during the diner/separation scene.  Seems Jack and Rebecca have a way of letting their kids take care of each other in situations that warrant an adult's leadership.  I don't know how I am supposed to care a lick about Mr. and Mrs. Swoony Marriage if that's their parenting style.

Edited October 9, 2017 by laurakaye

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

I thought Kevin was afraid to put his head under, so couldn't swim in deep water. If Kate and Randall conquered that fear early on—or never had it to begin with—they would've advanced in their swimming lessons faster than Kevin. 

 

Of course, it's been a minute since I watched that episode, so could well be this is something I invented in my own head. 

He was doing headstands in the shallow end, so it wasn't a fear of going under.  He was playing with a ball that got away from him and he ended up in the deep end, and was doing fine, because swimming is somewhat instinctual, but then realized he was in the deep end and panicked. 

 

21 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Same as it shouldn't have been Kevin's job to run after Kate during the diner/separation scene.  Seems Jack and Rebecca have a way of letting their kids take care of each other in situations that warrant an adult's leadership.  I don't know how I am supposed to care a lick about Mr. and Mrs. Swoony Marriage if that's their parenting style.

I think I agree with that decision.  Kate was upset because of her parents.  I'm assuming they each talked to her  a little later, either together or separately, but going after her right away probably would have been a mistake.  She needed her space from them to absorb the divorce.

[PRgal]

5 hours ago, Katy M said:

No, deciding that the only child who doesn't know how to swim is the one you need to pay the least attention to at the pool is negligent parenting.  And, how did that happen anyway?  Why do Randall and Kate know how to swim and Kevin doesn't?  They stated that Randall could swim and I assumed Kate could since she asked the other girls if they wanted to play mermaid, and yet, Kevin, the exact same age as the other two, has never learned to swim.

Maybe Kevin has/had a health condition.  I did not get lessons growing up partly because of my horrible eczema (we are talking about rashes - especially after family trips to the community pool) and partly because of my epilepsy (even though it was well under control by the time I was eight - not too late to start).  Or it could simply be a fear of water.  I doubt it would ever be addressed again.

[Janie430]

In terms of the building airplanes thing, I got the feeling that Jack always said he was going to build airplanes with Kevin, but never actually did it.  Instead, he was doing other stuff, and Kevin stopped waiting on him.  I got the feeling that part of the reason Kevin destroyed all the planes was that they were a sign of the broken promises.  

Kevin was a real jerk to Randall when they were teens, but as others have said, it seems a lot like displaced anger at his parents.  Hopefully, he'll be able to articulate it.  It will sound odd, but I sometimes get the feeling that while Jack and Rebecca loved Kevin, they were kind of bored by him.  Parenting Randall was hard - they had to deal with the issues associated with cross-racial adoption, and his intelligence, and his anxiety.  And Kate was challenging, because of their own issues with their mothers. I wonder if they just didn't perceive that Kevin had issues too, or if they did, but felt like they never had time to deal with them.  I got the feeling that Kevin's perception (not reality, but perception) is that they did know he had issues, but didn't care. 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Janie430 said:

I got the feeling that Jack always said he was going to build airplanes with Kevin, but never actually did it.  Instead, he was doing other stuff, and Kevin stopped waiting on him.  I got the feeling that part of the reason Kevin destroyed all the planes was that they were a sign of the broken promises.  

I didn't hear it that way and was curious so I googled it.  He said he and Jack used to build the model planes together and eventually they had a whole fleet.  The clip is the top video in this article.  

http://www.etonline.com/tv/201817_this_is_us_reveals_new_clues_on_when_jack_died

[Dowel Jones]

On 10/4/2017 at 11:36 PM, Winston9-DT3 said:

Though the Manny seems much worse.

Which gives some serious weight to Kevin's rant the first time around.  This time, if I were Kevin, I think I would have met the director after the show in a private room and rearranged his nose for that idiotic stunt.  Whether it was planned or spontaneous, that was over the top punishment for an actor.  Good luck, Morris Chestnut.  You're going to need a strong stomach to get through that mess.

[Janie430]

Yes, but the flashback showed Jack poking his head in and saying "look at all the progress you've made.  I'll help you with it after dinner".  And this was before he took the higher stress job with longer hours.  So I (perhaps incorrectly) extrapolated that Jack always popped in, and oohed over the model, but it was really Kevin who did the work.  That Jack always intended to work on the models with Kevin, but never did.

[jumper sage]

On 10/6/2017 at 8:47 AM, NutMeg said:

I think there were many reasons why the "face cupping" was disturbing: 1) a child is comforting a parent for a problem she can't understand (addiction, not little booboo) by repeating a gesture used by the adult to reassure the child; 2) the parent lets the child comfort him; and 3) even worse, the parent is seeking comfort from his child in the first place, which is seriously messed up, and makes the child the "parent" in the situation, so back to my point 1. By treating Kate like an adult or even like his comfort blanket, Jack is forcing her to react as an parent, or how she thinks an adult/parent would react. And of course the weird visual and length of the scene make it even more awkward.

Absolutely.

6 hours ago, Katy M said:

I believe they said he couldn't swim.  Randall was specifically told to stay in the shallow end with him.

How can you have 3 kids and 1 doesn't know how to swim?  You take your kids when they are babies to learn to swim - sheeesh.

I like this show and I hate this show.  I liked season 1 but am dreading going through season 2.  The whole premise of the show is flawed and is just a set-up for a lifetime of problems for the whole family.  The mother not being able to grieve properly, the alcohol problem, etc.  Each of the "kids" are stunted in their own ways.  Every family has issues.  Everyone has issues of how they were raised.  I say I will give you until 24 years old to gripe and moon about things then you have to move on with your life.  If that means cutting out people you can't reconcile with then so be it.  I may have convinced myself that I am OUT.