S02.E06: Scientology and Celebrity: The Betrayal of Paul Haggis

[Guest]

Quote

Since Scientology's inception, L. Ron Hubbard had an obsession with getting celebrities into the Church.  Leah and Mike sit down with former Scientology celebrity recruiter to learn about the Church's efforts to recruit A-listers. Then Leah and Mike travel to NYC to meet with Academy Award-winning filmmaker Paul Haggis, the first celebrity to speak out against Scientology, for a very candid conversation about his own personal journey.

[CofCinci]

Wow! Paul Haggis. This series is really stepping up its game for season two. Dare we dream for Katie Holmes in the third season. Her 5 year gag order is up. Or, Nicole Kidman?!!

[3girlsforus]

I'm a little worried about this episode. I saw the sneak peek. I love the idea of hearing about all the celebrities but I don't know that it will do their cause any favors to name a lot of names of Hollywood Scientologists. It's already started with Jada Pickett Smith claiming she's not Scientologist. We know she's full of it and that people supporting this cult should be called out, but to lots of people it will look like Leah's  butting into other people's personal choices. I'm curious to see how the walk the line. 

[smorbie]

I don't know that they will be naming names necessarily.  They may be, but I think they'll just try to be respectful of those who aren't public about their stupidity.  I'm thinking they will focus on the recruitment techniques and the ways in which celebrities are treated differently from the slaves of the cult.

[3girlsforus]

39 minutes ago, smorbie said:

I don't know that they will be naming names necessarily.  They may be, but I think they'll just try to be respectful of those who aren't public about their stupidity.  I'm thinking they will focus on the recruitment techniques and the ways in which celebrities are treated differently from the slaves of the cult.

I hope so. The 'First look' did name names, although most were pretty well known at least to me. 

[Sew Sumi]

I don't think they would out anyone. Lawsuits up the wazoo, even for someone who we know is in, like the Smiths. Outing celebs is about as bad as it can get with the "church's" money behind them.

I think this will be borne out in tonight's episode.  

[ParadoxLost]

I'm torn.  Last season Leah was pretty cautious about attacking any celebrities on the show and in her appearances.  But she is going after other celebs in interviews for not standing up against the abuses this year; much like Haggis' attitude seems to be in the clips they've shown.

I think all the people that have come to her with their stories may have stamped out any sympathy for the celebs that are still stuck where she was before Scientology became uncomfortable enough that she got out.

She outed Jada over the weekend.  I think there was a reason for that.  I'm not sure anyone who is or was  in can trust their name won't be mentioned. But I think they'll focus on why celebs are recruited, how they get treated differently and shame on them for being willfully ignorant collectively rather than personal anecdotes on XYZ celeb.

[MelissaMinion]

It feels to me like the focus in this episode is both to tell the celebrities that they can't now hide behind "I've never heard of any abuses" and to show them that they were, in fact, targeted.  For a reason other than the love bombing they see when they first encounter the cult.

[MelissaMinion]

Oh, MY. Well, Laura Prepon, if you're going to be filmed saying you haven't seen any Scientology info that is detrimental to homosexuality, what does that say about you? 

-Are you just a failed student of Scientology? Because the info is right there....maybe you should go back and re-read? Maybe you missed a word?

-Or, are you just too lazy to look beyond the Celebrity Level Scientology you've been spoon fed?

 

I need to stop now. Her little video clip has gotten me upset.

Edited September 20, 2017 by MelissaMinion
Edited because i left out words...

[Snappy]

Scientology has hidden behind its well constructed shield for so long, and I am glad to see people whose lives hae been affected tear down that shield. No religion is perfect, and people have been more than willing to tear others, primarily Catholicism down. How is lookig for the truth behind Scientology any different. Celebrities who put themselves out there as mouthpieces for the "religion" have done it on their own, or under influence that the refuse to ackowledge. They have outed themselves, no one else has. Personally, I'd like to see the IRS revoke COS tax free status.

[bosawks]

Good lord that Martin Luther King Jr. story was just, wow....

[sistersledge]

The ending (showing current members clips while Haggis talked about being willfully blind) was powerful.

Next week looks brutal.

[jodie]

I love how Leah called out the celebrities and reporters on their shit. What a great response calling them p***ssy.

I still don't understand why Tom Cruise is so praised. Does misc she have a crush on him?

[MichaelaRae]

Okay, Paul Haggis just needs to get over here and marry me RIGHT. NOW. (Okay, he's already married. Dammit.) He was so ON tonight. Behold Paul's field, Cult of $cientology: it is barren and has no fucks in it for you.

As usual, love Leah's reactions when she is presented with a Co$ story that blows her ever-lovin' mind. The MLK Jr. story...I was right there with her. WOW.

Edited September 20, 2017 by MichaelaRae

[ParadoxLost]

3 minutes ago, MichaelaRae said:

As usual, love Leah's reactions when she is presented with a Co$ story that blows her ever-lovin' mind. The MLK Jr. story...I was right there with her. WOW.

I kept rewinding that to see how many distinct voices I could hear losing it because I think that may have gotten Leah, Rinder, and the camera crew.

I also loved Rinder's reaction to the story about his interaction with Leah at the picnic.

[MelissaMinion]

I started giggling when Paul told about Leah not avoiding him after he resigned. Scientology actually got one thing right. She was a Scientology failure.....for failing to disconnect from him! 

[veronicamers]

Wow. Haggis was riveting tonight. Such a logical, measured, calm approach. Interesting he was surprised Leah was still hurt by the things current COS celebs say about her. I was like, have you met her? Leah is emotional, honest, raw, turned up to 11 all the time. She doesn't have it in her to be detached. And thank goodness for her passion or we wouldn't have this show.

I was so glad they showed that Prepon video which is just the most contrived nonsense ever. Girl, go home with that. 

These people are so crazy with their weak pot shots. If Elisabeth Moss publicly left COS tomorrow they'd be all "She only won the Emmy as a fluke. No one watches The Handmaid's Tale. And oh, the second season of Top of the Lake sucks."

Edited September 20, 2017 by veronicamers
words

[3girlsforus]

Fantastic episode. The ending with Paul saying you can't just pretend you've never heard of the abuses while playing the slideshow of the actors was brilliant. And I'm so glad they stuck with those who have publicly said they are scientologists. Leah has personally said others are, the Smiths for example, who then deny it but I was glad to see the show stuck with those who have claimed it themselves. So much more credibility that way. 

And I am completely in agreement with the poster above who wants to marry Paul. Damn he's married already. Damn - so am I LOL. 

[smorbie]

1 hour ago, MelissaMinion said:

Oh, MY. Well, Laura Prepon, if you're going to be filmed saying you haven't seen any Scientology info that is detrimental to homosexuality, what does that say about you? 

-Are you just a failed student of Scientology? Because the info is right there....maybe you should go back and re-read? Maybe you missed a word?

-Or, are you just too lazy to look beyond the Celebrity Level Scientology you've been spoon fed?

 

I need to stop now. Her little video clip has gotten me upset.

She obviously wasn't word clearing while she read.  WORD!

[Maelstrom]

So it looks like we don't get a new ep until October 10, if I understood the ads properly. And from the preview, we might need that time to get ready. It looks brutal.

Paul Haggis was a very interesting interviewee - as others have said, his calm, measured tone really let the horrible actions of the CO$ speak for themselves. If that makes sense. I think I'm running out of ways to say "Wow, that shit's fucked up" each week, lol.

I got a good laugh out of everyone's reaction to Leah not disconnecting from Paul, though probably not as big a laugh as Mike. I'm glad for their sakes that they get a little levity now and then.

I just can't with all those videos of Tommy Davis, Laura Prepon, etc, going on tape and outright lying about certain CO$ policies not existing. Um, you do know we can read right? We can see the policies right there? How stupid do you think us WOGs are? 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Maelstrom

[Auntie Anxiety]

Had to chuckle about how it's your own fault and your own shortcomings to finally realize that Scientology's rules are absurd contrivances. The perfect Catch 22.

[mbaywife123]

This episode only confirmed that the CO$ is nothing more than a multi level marketing scam.

Commissions paid for bringing people into the scam. The bigger the "whale" the bigger the commission.

Just like Amway except CO$ is selling a book club and classes instead of laundry soap and cleaning supplies.

Last I checked Amway is not a tax exempt company/Org.

[ramble]

This was a powerful episode, different from the personal abuse stories, but powerful nonetheless. Paul was so calm as he related his story it made it all the more destructive in the telling. I don't know a lot of the celebrities, but I agree with the sentiment that they have the resources to learn the truth. Unlike those held captive by CO$ or those that have all info censored and can't access it. If the "celebrities" choose to not do some investigating then that's on them. 

I simply can not understand how, when every word of LRH's is considered sacred, CO$ can flat out deny his own words. Also, if nothing LRH says is infallible then how can the church update their  views as society changes like they stated? Someone hasn't cleared the word contradictory. 

[ParadoxLost]

1 hour ago, MelissaMinion said:

Oh, MY. Well, Laura Prepon, if you're going to be filmed saying you haven't seen any Scientology info that is detrimental to homosexuality, what does that say about you? 

I hate bringing this up because I find Prepon smug and annoying.  Plus I think she is one of the worse Scientologists because there is no way she doesn't know what Danny Masterson has allegedly done and what Scientology covered up for him given she was his costar and her former relationship with his brother.

But while I think her statement about never having seen anything about Scientology's prejudice (and worse) about homosexuality is a lie.  And I've seen a nutball interview where she speaks gibberish about the tone scale to prove it.  It also comes in an episode where Haggis recounted that he was surprised that Scientology didn't back him up about prop 8.  Haggis read all the books too.  There is definitely some deluding themselves going on with celeb Scientologists.  Not that this excuses them for being willfully ignorant or ignoring the abuses.

Its interesting that Haggis story boils down to be very similar to a lot of others.  With Co$ ~35 years, gets to upper levels of OT and finds it stupid, starts looking at media like Anonymous or Truth Rundown or Scientology mouthpiece interviews where they lie and then gets out.

1 hour ago, 3girlsforus said:

 The ending with Paul saying you can't just pretend you've never heard of the abuses while playing the slideshow of the actors was brilliant.

 

Agree.  That was very effective.  Also liked the subtle roll to clips of Kidman and Holmes that you can get away with minimal harassment if you keep your mouth shut.  There was a fair bit of telling without saying as they rolled the clips in certain parts of the episode referring to media/gossip without saying it.

[MichaelaRae]

I have always had a visceral, negative reaction to Laura Pepron even before I knew her Scientology connection. She's so WILDLY SMUG (oxymoron but somehow she accomplishes it). I am not even REMOTELY surprised that she will pretend she didn't have to do the "WORD!!" rundown 29 million times on every line of L. Ron Douchebag's "gospel" and knows EXACTLY how "He" feels about homosexuality. Hypocrite.

Edited September 20, 2017 by MichaelaRae

[BabyVegas]

They should really just rename this show "Excuse Me, WHAT?! ...with Leah Remini and Mike Rinder." Because that's what I find myself shouting at my TV every Tuesday night.

This episode was very impactful in a different way than usual. I like how each episode is just knocking down, piece by piece, every argument in the Scientology portfolio. Scientology says there's no policy of fair game? Here's an episode documenting fair game. Scientology says disconnection isn't a real thing? Here's an episode documenting disconnection. You think Scientology is just kooky but ultimately harmless? Here's an episode about all the ways it harms people. I love that in telling the story of Scientology and celebrities, Leah is tearing down more of the artifice and is showing what's underneath.

I have a law professor who says that you think of your opponent's argument as a brick wall and your job is not to take a wrecking ball to the wall, but to knock out little brick after little brick until the thing can no longer stand. This show is knocking out brick after brick and the wall can't stand forever.

[RedheadZombie]

16 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Wow! Paul Haggis. This series is really stepping up its game for season two. Dare we dream for Katie Holmes in the third season. Her 5 year gag order is up. Or, Nicole Kidman?!!

Nicole will take it to the grave, IMO.  I think she will stay mum in the slim hope that her children will come back to her.

As to Katie, she's never shown signs of wanting to help anyone in CO$, including her own "children" Bella and Connor.  Yes, I'm a little bitter.  Cruise hasn't seen Suri in years, and Katie's father wrote up an ironclad agreement ensuring Suri's safety.  Katie could speak up and has chosen not to.  And she's only given a half-assed lukewarm apology for her part in causing Leah trouble.  There are a bunch of heroes in the ex-Scientology movement, and Katie is not one of them - by choice.

[WInterfalls]

Very good episode. Paul Haggis was great. He was thoughtful, clear, and adamant about why he left the church and what it has  meant to him since. You could tell the passion in his voice as he said celebs still in the church should be held accountable for not speaking out. 

Honestly, since they showed those first clips of him in previews earlier this year I have been looking forward to this episode. It did not disappoint. 

[dwarmed]

1 hour ago, Maelstrom said:

I just can't with all those videos of Tommy Davis, Laura Prepon, etc, going on tape and outright lying about certain CO$ policies not existing. Um, you do know we can read right? We can see the policies right there? How stupid do you think us WOGs are?

That is what I find most bizarre. These policies are from publicly available books and documents, not like the secret Xenu story. How can they deny they exist, when all you have to do is state the book title and page number? There are also publicly available documents that state Scientology has to stick to the original documents and apply them exactly as stated. There's no room for evolving with the culture. There not only liars, but super lazy liars.

Also, I'm intrigued by celebrities denying they are part of Scientology. Are they even allowed to do that? I would think they would get into trouble for that, if they are expected to publicly represent Scientology and recruit others.

I wonder how Paul Haggis felt about the tone scale, defining homosexuals as the lowest form of life, dangerous criminal deviants. He must have read that long before the Prop 8 thing came up. Was he just cajoled into thinking that was outdated policy and the church didn't really take that view anymore? It seems the staff will shrug off any part of Scientology and pretend it doesn't really apply anymore if they are eager enough to keep someone in. Then, the support of Prop 8 made him realize they do still apply that policy and they mean it.

Many of the things Paul said were heartbreaking. He was surprised that his wife would stand by him. He was surprised that Leah would still be his friend. Doesn't say much for this organization. They all know the policies of how they will be treated if they leave, speak out, etc. I assume this happens early on. How do people read about this stuff but decide it's still a good place for them to be? Why is it only when either they are not getting gains out of it (OT levels don't make sense, don't work) or when abuse happens to them or they hear about abuse, they realize Scientology is bad? The policies themselves are abusive. It shouldn't be surprising that abuse happens.

The best part about the show tonight was the contrast of the most calm, rationale, intelligent, articulate presentation of Paul Haggis compared to the stupid "pussy" answers given by the celebrities still in. I'm all for shaming those assholes for trying to skirt the abuse and pretend they don't know about it.

A poster upthread mentioned Katie Holmes. I don't think she will say a word (and I would hope she doesn't) until her daughter is grown. She was super lucky to escape and get her daughter away from Scientology. I still can't believe she pulled that off. Her actions speak louder anyway. I am hoping someday, when Co$ has imploded and/or when Katie is old enough not to care anymore, she will write the tell-all book. I am dying to read it. I bet she has the most amazing dirt.

At least the hate website Sea Orgers get a break tonight, as the Paul Haggis smear site was already done years ago. Maybe they can get an hour of sleep.

[dwarmed]

And can you even believe that weak shit with Paul's sister in that video? He only had two successful movies and the rest failed? Having back to back Oscar award winning movies is hardly failure. Most people in Hollywood would give anything for that. Plus, he has had a long and successful career, one that Co$ surely boasted about and took credit for when Paul was in. Then, when he is out, his success is minimal and happened by accident? Can't they see how ridiculous these attacks make them come across? It's so juvenile. Perhaps because their leader has the mind of a violent psychotic 12 year old boy?

[andromeda331]

This was another really good episode. I love the way Paul Haggis told his story. He was so calm. I loved how upset the got when he mentioned Martin Luther King Jr. How surprised he was that his 25 friends didn't seem notice or care about what he wrote in his resignation letter. How worried he was that his wife wouldn't leave with him. I like and agree with him that they need to be held accountable. 

[MsTree]

4 hours ago, Snappy said:

Personally, I'd like to see the IRS revoke COS tax free status.

Totally agree...which leads to a question re: Cult members who "donate" to the "church"...do these members take a tax deduction? If so, between church's tax free status and member "donations", that's a double-dipping scam!

[spiderpig]

The best, most impactful episode in a long time.  No histrionics (except from CO$), and Paul's concise, honest recitation of his life in and out of the "Church".

I'm so happy he chose his daughters over the clams, and that his wife chose him over them also.

[KHenry14]

First, Paul Haggis rocks!!  What an impressive man. 

It's always interesting to me when Leah and Mike find out something they didn't know. And not just the ridiculous Miscaivage is greater than MLK crap. Just rank and file info. You'd think those two would know every dirty secret, and yet they don't. 

BTW, it's no surprise that Haggis shrugged off all the attacks, dude is 100 times smarter than those people

[Cupcake04]

4 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Nicole will take it to the grave, IMO.  I think she will stay mum in the slim hope that her children will come back to her.

As to Katie, she's never shown signs of wanting to help anyone in CO$, including her own "children" Bella and Connor.  Yes, I'm a little bitter.  Cruise hasn't seen Suri in years, and Katie's father wrote up an ironclad agreement ensuring Suri's safety.  Katie could speak up and has chosen not to.  And she's only given a half-assed lukewarm apology for her part in causing Leah trouble.  There are a bunch of heroes in the ex-Scientology movement, and Katie is not one of them - by choice.

To be fair though, we don't know what she agreed to in the divorce just to get it done quickly.. We just found out last week about the 5 year no public dating clause. Sincer her daughter is so young, I give her a pass for now. My hope is that the cult will collapse and cease to exist which will remove all threats and then people like her will come forward.

[Ina123]

I took a phone call and missed all but the last few words about MLK. Can someone fill me in on the whole story?

[smorbie]

Tommy Davis and some mini cabbages came to talk to Haggis about his letter and to try to get him back into the crock's good graces.  They were talking about Miss Cabbage and Haggis went to make a comparison about good men who do bad things (MLK) and, I guess, bad men who do bad things (totes talking about you, davey).  When he said something about comparing the two men, Davis and the minis rose up as one and said "Don't you EVER compare MLK to David Miscaviage!"  

Leah lost it when that happened.

Edited September 21, 2017 by smorbie

[Whimsy]

2 hours ago, Cupcake04 said:

We just found out last week about the 5 year no public dating clause.

I heard about this clause at least a couple years ago before I even got sucked into the whole Scientology rabbit hole.  It was definitely out there. 

Yeah, saying that Miscavige is somehow better than MLK- GTFO.  Ugh.  I was just as incredulous as Mike & Leah. 

I've been looking forward to the Paul Haggis episode.  I actually haven't really read all the articles and stuff because I had to take a brain break awhile back from reading so much.  My brain literally hurt and I couldn't take it anymore.  I knew the basics- that his daughters were gay and he got out because of Scientology's stance on homosexuality.  Other than that, the story was new to me.  I enjoyed it greatly.  His sister didn't even really seem like she believed her own words.  I don't know if she made that video when she was already dealing with cancer and that's why she was so flat or if she couldn't even fake it.  I really, really hope that this starts the mass exiting of the celebs from this crock.  We know the ones that'll never leave (Cruise, Ally, Travolta's), but I'm hoping some wake up and get out now.

[toodles]

1 hour ago, smorbie said:

Tommy Davis and some mini cabbages came to talk to Haggis about his letter and to try to get him back into the crock's good graces.  They were talking about Miss Cabbage and Haggis went to make a comparison about good men who do bad things (MLK) and, I guess, bad men who do bad things (totes talking about you, davey).  When she said something about comparing the two men, the Davis and the minis rose up as one and said "Don't you EVER compare MLK to David Miscaviage!"  

Leah lost it when that happened.

Awesome post. Mini cabbages made me laugh.

[closer2fine]

Fantastic episode last night. Liked seeing Paul's story expanded on from "Going Clear."

 

I was still hoping he'd apologize for "Crash" being a shit movie, though.

[AZChristian]

7 hours ago, MsTree said:

Totally agree...which leads to a question re: Cult members who "donate" to the "church"...do these members take a tax deduction? If so, between church's tax free status and member "donations", that's a double-dipping scam!

If an organization has a tax-free status, donors can definitely take tax deductions for their "gifts."  Technically (and legally), they probably would not be able to take tax deductions for buying the books and taking the courses, but I'm sure the Co$ writes them up as "donations" rather than fees.  But rest assured - if you don't make the appropriate "donation" for a given book or course, you are not getting the book or course.

Edited September 20, 2017 by AZChristian

[Guest]

9 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Nicole will take it to the grave, IMO.  I think she will stay mum in the slim hope that her children will come back to her.

As to Katie, she's never shown signs of wanting to help anyone in CO$, including her own "children" Bella and Connor.  Yes, I'm a little bitter.  Cruise hasn't seen Suri in years, and Katie's father wrote up an ironclad agreement ensuring Suri's safety.  Katie could speak up and has chosen not to.  And she's only given a half-assed lukewarm apology for her part in causing Leah trouble.  There are a bunch of heroes in the ex-Scientology movement, and Katie is not one of them - by choice.

I give her a little pass because yes, there is an ironclad agreement, but we don't know what the agreement entails.  It could be that her silence is part of the deal. Or if it was a contract relationship from the start, there could be huge repercussions to her financially if she speaks out.

8 hours ago, dwarmed said:

 

I wonder how Paul Haggis felt about the tone scale, defining homosexuals as the lowest form of life, dangerous criminal deviants. He must have read that long before the Prop 8 thing came up. Was he just cajoled into thinking that was outdated policy and the church didn't really take that view anymore? It seems the staff will shrug off any part of Scientology and pretend it doesn't really apply anymore if they are eager enough to keep someone in. Then, the support of Prop 8 made him realize they do still apply that policy and they mean it.

 

I really don't see how any one is naive enough to believe that though. Like, they act like LRH is completely infallible.... oh, except for that? That doesn't make sense unless he was actively trying to deceive himself into believing it so he could stay.

[CaughtOnTape]

Their reactions to the MLK story were the same as mine.  I'm pretty sure my mouth hit the floor.  What in the ever loving fuck?

Tommy Davis skeeves me out.  I hate to sound like an uneducated dolt but if this church collapses I will be counting the hours until some pedophile shit about him comes out.  He's one of those guys who's all calm and measured but there's rage bubbling underneath and that is scary as hell.  If I saw him walking down a street I'd turn and walk the other way.  Just his whole aura screams "I like to really hurt people".

Losing Paul Haggis was a big one.  Not just because he's so successful but because he speaks with such authority and can adequately articulate what it is he went through without all the emotion.  There was emotion behind what he said (the story with his wife made me tear up), but the foundation was facts.  He kept a calm and measured tone the entire time and was able to smack down every argument with clear reason.  I applaud him because it must be hard to be that way after the attacks they've leveled on him.

I cannot wait for Katie Holmes to write a book.  Gimme the dirt, honey.

[TheGreenWave]

12 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

Fantastic episode. The ending with Paul saying you can't just pretend you've never heard of the abuses while playing the slideshow of the actors was brilliant.

Agreed!  I don't think I actually breathed for that entire montage - this episode was crazy powerful.

[cpcathy]

Does anyone remember Nathan Thurm, Martin Short's greasy lawyer character from Saturday Night Live? All these Scientologists and their outright denials of stuff on TV remind me of Nathan Thurm saying, "I never said that, why is he saying that? I never said that!" 

[absnow54]

He kept a calm and measured tone the entire time and was able to smack down every argument with clear reason. I applaud him because it must be hard to be that way after the attacks they've leveled on him.

I found it really interesting when Tommy Davis and company put together a presentation that would prove all of his worries false, and instead of addressing any of his issues, they had just assembled a smear campaign of all the people they'd assumed he'd talked to. It was a phenomenal disconnect between Paul worrying about what was going on in the church, and them panicking over who to point their finger at.

[Cupcake04]

Great episode last night.  I agree with poster upthread saying that losing Haggis was big threat because of the fact that he is articulate and succinct and what he says doesn't get lost in emotion.

Seeing the celeb photos last night.....where has Ann Archer been lately.  All the others we hear from or they are seen around, but has Ann Archer been in anything recently or been seen around?  It seem the photo they keep using is the same one and it seems dated to me.

3 minutes ago, cpcathy said:

Does anyone remember Nathan Thurm, Martin Short's greasy lawyer character from Saturday Night Live? All these Scientologists and their outright denials of stuff on TV remind me of Nathan Thurm saying, "I never said that, why is he saying that? I never said that!" 

YES!  OMG that is the perfect comparison!  Now everytime they put up the Cult's disclaimers/statements I am going to hear him saying them!  lol

[LegalParrot81]

9 minutes ago, Cupcake04 said:

Seeing the celeb photos last night.....where has Ann Archer been lately.  All the others we hear from or they are seen around, but has Ann Archer been in anything recently or been seen around

She's doing things here and there according to her IMdB page.  She's probably trying to make sure son Tommy stays below the radar, now that he's no longer spokes person for the Twerp's gang.

Last nights episode was by far the best I've seen since Leah & Mike started this.  Paul Haggis was direct, open, honest and at times, raw.  I did about pick up my couch and throw it with the MLK comment.  There is no end to the twerp and his minions warped perceptions.  

This is one episode that I'll have to watch again as there was so much depth to it.

[smorbie]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

I give her a little pass because yes, there is an ironclad agreement, but we don't know what the agreement entails.  It could be that her silence is part of the deal. Or if it was a contract relationship from the start, there could be huge repercussions to her financially if she speaks out.

I really don't see how any one is naive enough to believe that though. Like, they act like LRH is completely infallible.... oh, except for that? That doesn't make sense unless he was actively trying to deceive himself into believing it so he could stay.

Remember he had tried to resign before.  When he reached the OT levels (long after he learned about the crock's beliefs around homosexuality), he realized he didn't believe any of the crap that was being forced into him.  He went to resign and told them the reason was his unbelief.  The representative to him he was talking told him he didn't have to believe any or all of it (there are all kinds of Jews, there are all kinds of Christians).  Somehow, he found this convincing.

I honestly don't think he would ever have begun investigating the crock had it not been for the fact this two of his children are homosexuals and the crock supported that proposition.

[WInterfalls]

43 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I found it really interesting when Tommy Davis and company put together a presentation that would prove all of his worries false, and instead of addressing any of his issues, they had just assembled a smear campaign of all the people they'd assumed he'd talked to. It was a phenomenal disconnect between Paul worrying about what was going on in the church, and them panicking over who to point their finger at.

And it goes directly to what Mike and Leah and everyone else has been saying about how Scientology critics are attacked.  They never ever address the actual accusations.  They just hurl this is what's wrong with this person. OK Leah's rude so what? OK Mike wasn't around for his daughter how does that make it ok to throw him in the hole for two years? 

 

You really could tell that Paul was touched that Leah hadn't disconnected from him although I don't think they were close.  I like how Leah didn't soak up the accolade though she just said she should have believed him and left sooner.  

11 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Nicole will take it to the grave, IMO.  I think she will stay mum in the slim hope that her children will come back to her.

As to Katie, she's never shown signs of wanting to help anyone in CO$, including her own "children" Bella and Connor.  Yes, I'm a little bitter.  Cruise hasn't seen Suri in years, and Katie's father wrote up an ironclad agreement ensuring Suri's safety.  Katie could speak up and has chosen not to.  And she's only given a half-assed lukewarm apology for her part in causing Leah trouble.  There are a bunch of heroes in the ex-Scientology movement, and Katie is not one of them - by choice.

Nicole and Katie got out and that's something at least.  I don't blame Katie for leaving with just Suri; it's more than Nicole managed.  I don't think she could have done anything for Connor and Bella if even their own mother couldn't, and they were almost adults at that point anyway.  There is no telling what sort of relationship they had.  I wouldn't call Katie one of the heroes of the ex-Scientology movement, but I don't think she's a villain either.