S02.E03: The "Perfect" Scientology Family

[psychoticstate]

I'm wondering if the misspellings in the note were intentional, especially since the CO$ is apparently a bunch of hyped up clusterfuck monkeys about misspellings, etc.  Maybe an additional "fuck you" on top of killing himself on LRH's oh-so-sacred birthday?

I have cried during every episode so far this season.  I have to really give it to Mike and Leah for doing this.  They are exposing so much of the nasty underbelly of the cult; it can't be easy for either to listen to what was going on, right under their noses.  Especially Mike. 

In other news, I fucking hate the CO$ with a passion I can't explain.  It should be shut down and Miscavige should be in prison.  Little fucker. 

ETA:  @grooveshinney and I apparently have the same thought about the misspellings.  This is what happens when I respond before I read the other posts.  Doh.

Edited August 30, 2017 by psychoticstate

[peaceknit]

6 minutes ago, deaja said:

Oregon.

Thanks, it looked very beautiful.

4 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

In other news, I fucking hate the CO$ with a passion I can't explain.  It should be shut down and Miscavige should be in prison.  Little fucker. 

Next week's epi is about Miscavige. He needs to be taken DOWN. Cut the head off the snake.

[psychoticstate]

1 hour ago, msrachelj said:

agreed. i am not finding this season as good as the last. something seems different about the people in these interviews. they seem so much more glammed up for the camera, if you will. especially this last one. i just got the feeling she was in makeup quite a lot. i can't explain it.

I think this season is just as good but it's heavier, so to speak.  We've dealt with suicides and molestation over the last three episodes, rather than indirect craziness (Xenu!  thetans! PTS!)  I appreciate that Mike and Leah are showing the tragic parts too, and not just Tom Cruise jumping on couches and claiming to get people off heroin in three days.

Maybe it feels different, too, because there was a bit of backstory on Scientology last season and we haven't gotten any of that yet.  Mike's blog says that's coming next episode though.

Edited August 30, 2017 by psychoticstate
brain freeze

[WInterfalls]

35 minutes ago, deaja said:

I'm finding this season to be not quite as interesting as last.  Probably just as important to bringing down Scientology, but last season there was more of a behind the curtains look at Scientology. The stories this season are so depressing that they are hard to watch, and in a lot of cases, the stories aren't as unique to Scientology.

I would say that's true but I also think she's trying to open it up a bit so that people in other cults see the similarities.  I think a big difference from what last season to this season is that season one they were interviewing people they already knew (or at least Mike knew them), while season two is people who came forward to speak after they saw last season.  I've gotten that impression from stuff I'm seeing on Tony Ortega's site and it makes sense to me.  While last season it was this is the crazy Scientology stuff and now people are coming out and saying "Yeah well this is the terrible thing it did to my family".  

 

Also I think there has been a little change in focus.  Being a rabbit holer one of the things I heard from former scientologists as a criticism of this show and Going Clear is that the 2nd and 3rd generation Scientologists weren't seeing their stories told.  What their lives were like growing up and how it was destroyed.   They touched on it some last season but it seems to be the overall focus of this season. 

9 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

Maybe it feels different, too, because there was a bit of backstory on Scientology last season and we haven't gotten any of that yet.  Mike's blog says that's coming next episode though

13 minutes ago, peaceknit said:

Next week's epi is about Miscavige. He needs to be taken DOWN. Cut the head off the snake.

Very excited about next week!!

Edited August 30, 2017 by WInterfalls

[RedheadZombie]

12 hours ago, BabyVegas said:

Yeah, I admit to being a little surprised at that. Especially when I saw the misspellings in his suicide note. But it sounds like he was pretty clearly brilliant. It's just a shame that Scientology stole his life.

One thing I noticed while watching this episode was that even though they're out of the cult, they still use the terminology. I assume that some of that was a stylistic choice to tell the story more completely (e.g. explaining about engrams) but some of it seems like still a force of habit. For example, Leah kept saying "LRH" instead of "L. Ron Hubbard" or just "Hubbard." I know acronyms are a big thing in Scientology, so it's interesting to note that she does still use some of the Scientology-speak even though she is firmly out of the organization. 

The lingo is one of the things that should scream RED FLAG to new recruits.  It's bizarre.  I know for a fact that it would freak me out*, as well as the sci-fi wanna be elements.  I know for second generation it's just how it is, but how rational adults walk in the door and don't run out screaming is beyond me.  Perhaps these are the people who would be vulnerable to any cult. 

*In college I was briefly a "little sister" for a fraternity.  During the ceremony, I was ready to book if things got weird.  It was dark and we were holding candles, and I was absolutely sure it was going to turn into some satanic thing.  It didn't, but I was extremely skeptical and suspicious through the entire thing.

[RedheadZombie]

6 hours ago, gunderda said:

I don't understand how some people seem to be secluded into Scientology whereas other family are able to living semi-normal lives with jobs outside of the organization.  Like Liz's dad had his own business.  Her brother was able to go to a regular college. And this season these people seem to have been able to leave without any recourse - unlike the other stories where people tried to run away but were caught and brought back or they had their lives smeared.  

It's very confusing. 

It seems like the Sea Org are the most controlled, and have the most controlled children.  Also, the upper echelon seem to have the most freedom.  Neither of Tom Cruise's children were ever recruited into Sea Org, which one might expect since he's a fanatic.  Paul Haggis' daughter also went to college and avoided Sea Org.

Regarding Paul Haggis, in Going Clear, he mentioned that two out of the three of his daughters are gay and were treated poorly by CO$.  I don't know if Laura is one of the two, but I'm sure CO$ works to kick these people out.  Unless they are celebrities with blackmail potential.

6 hours ago, 2727 said:

The misspellings in the suicide note were especially odd because of Scientology's insistence on looking up word definitions for hours at a time. People who attended Scientology schools usually have quite an extensive vocabulary (although not necessarily grammar).

On the website, Ex Scientology Kids, the site runners discussed that in their experience, CO$ schools are above average at teaching reading and writing, but fail in the other areas.  I wonder if Liz's brother was so obviously brilliant, that he skipped a lot of the early stuff which involved spelling.

[dwarmed]

I can't help but think the "parents" we have heard about in recent episodes didn't really want to be parents and happily embraced Scientology policy as a justification to focus on themselves and gratifying their own egos instead. This episode's "mother" couldn't wait to ship her kids off to boarding school as soon as it was allowed. It clearly wasn't the restimulation of her son that was to blame, since she did the same exact thing with her daughter. It seems they only had kids as another kind of donation to Scientology, a way to provide bodies for the Co$ army and/or prove what a happy family Scientology creates. Once those kids stop serving their original purpose, they have no fucks to give if those kids commit suicide. It floors me that a "mother" would tell her suicidal daughter that she only came to see her in the hospital because the "church" made her do so... as a way of DEFENDING the church. This church that made a second-generation lifetime Scientologist such a cold, heartless bitch to her own children.

As much as I want to blame the church for everything, I also think it takes a certain type of person to choose the church over the lives of their children and display such coldness over their loss. We certainly heard about other die-hard Scientologists that were heartbroken by disconnection in Season 1, parents that eventually gave up everything they knew because they couldn't bear not seeing their children. I do put some blame on people who make this decision, even though they were raised and brainwashed in the church. This episode's interviewee was third-generation, but still managed to put her children's welfare first and make a normal life for them.

[Ina123]

18 hours ago, Jillybean said:

I sort of thought the same, though I believe his suicide was in 1998, before the advent of texting.

You're right. But IT geeks were communicating that way long before texting. It's always been a computer shorthand. Texting has just made it more extreme. I'm not saying this is the answer, just a possibility. I think his mental anguish could have had something to do with it.

[cynicat]

I want to preface by saying that I have no love lost for the mother here, or for Scientology.  That being said, it makes me a little sad that the mother is painted as so evil while the father isn't mentioned.  Granted, he died when the kids were young, but he played a part as well.  Also, the mother was a second generation CO$, so she was deeply brainwashed.  Imagine being told that it's all your fault that your son is fucked up because of things you did while pregnant.  It's possible that she believed that the more she interacted with him, the worse she made him.  That whole idea of re-stimulation is just sickening.  

My take on why this season is different than season 1 is because there cannot be first person interviews.  Lots of suicide in this one.  I think they set the stage in season 1 for the big picture insanity of the CO$ organization and its leadership.  Now they're focusing in on exposing the mental cruelty that does not have merely wacky and snark-inducing consequences, but deadly ones.

[mahree]

18 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I wonder why the Co$ hasn't tried to sue A&E for using copyrighted material. There must be some kind of legal loophole involved here that would be interesting to know about.

Copyright attorney here:  I would guess A&E can (validly) claim the "fair use" exemption.  They are only using snippets of the work and are engaging in criticism (boy howdy, are they) and comment.  That would be enough to avoid an infringement claim.

[Pondlass1]

That Ron Hubbard guy had terrible teeth.  ugh! No dentists in scientology?  I really don't get what was so special about him or his ideas?

Also, although the interviews are heart wrenching, everyone seems to have done well for themselves after leaving the cult.  Nice and expensive homes.  

I hope the cult is recognized as a cult and required to pay all due taxes immediately on funds collected from the purchase of books and property.  That will shut them down faster than anything.  Maybe the money could be directed to helping Houston in the coming years.  Then, at least, scientology would have actually done some good.

[Chaos Theory]

29 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Also, although the interviews are heart wrenching, everyone seems to have done well for themselves after leaving the cult.  Nice and expensive homes.  

 

I am going to preface this by saying I don't watch this show all that much.  I may channel hop a bit and watch here and there but the one thing I do notice is that at least in the Sea Org they know how to work.  When you work day in and out and then hit the outside world and once the shock wears of an 8 hour day ( with breaks) seems like a vacation.    My guess the ones who really do get out get out with the kind of work ethic a company would kill for.  

[Desert Rat]

On 8/30/2017 at 7:12 AM, Whimsy said:

The misspellings really stood out to me too.  That seemed very strange especially coming from Philip who was obviously a genius. 

 

I believe the misspellings are symptomatic of his mental illness.  It's not uncommon for someone to have cognitive deficits during a severe depressive episode.  Think about it, if someone is so depressed they are contemplating suicide, simple things like spelling become harder and less important. 

[Pondlass1]

35 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

My guess the ones who really do get out get out with the kind of work ethic a company would kill for.  

Yes, I guess that's true when you think about it.  

[Rlb8031]

16 hours ago, dwarmed said:

I can't help but think the "parents" we have heard about in recent episodes didn't really want to be parents and happily embraced Scientology policy as a justification to focus on themselves and gratifying their own egos instead. This episode's "mother" couldn't wait to ship her kids off to boarding school as soon as it was allowed. It clearly wasn't the restimulation of her son that was to blame, since she did the same exact thing with her daughter. It seems they only had kids as another kind of donation to Scientology, a way to provide bodies for the Co$ army and/or prove what a happy family Scientology creates. Once those kids stop serving their original purpose, they have no fucks to give if those kids commit suicide. It floors me that a "mother" would tell her suicidal daughter that she only came to see her in the hospital because the "church" made her do so... as a way of DEFENDING the church. This church that made a second-generation lifetime Scientologist such a cold, heartless bitch to her own children.

As much as I want to blame the church for everything, I also think it takes a certain type of person to choose the church over the lives of their children and display such coldness over their loss. We certainly heard about other die-hard Scientologists that were heartbroken by disconnection in Season 1, parents that eventually gave up everything they knew because they couldn't bear not seeing their children. I do put some blame on people who make this decision, even though they were raised and brainwashed in the church. This episode's interviewee was third-generation, but still managed to put her children's welfare first and make a normal life for them.

One of the things I've learned as a result of the Louis' Theroux movie and listing to the Surviving Scientology podcast is that the lower level activities (TRs) that everyone learns in the first 1-2 classes are really just hypnosis/mind control techniques. If you believe that, then most of these folks are in a highly suggestible state where they are simply responding to the directions of the SeaOrg members without thought or examination. And yes, its a very particular personality type that ends up here (with the exception of the 2nd/3rd Gens who are raised thinking this way from the beginning).

[WInterfalls]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

When you work day in and out and then hit the outside world and once the shock wears of an 8 hour day ( with breaks) seems like a vacation.    My guess the ones who really do get out get out with the kind of work ethic a company would kill for.  

Yeah Aaron Smith-Levin said he got in trouble at his office job because he refused to take breaks for lunch or really anything.  His boss had to tell him "No BY LAW you MUST take a lunch break or the company will get in trouble." He thought everyone else was just being lazy taking an hour to eat lunch. 

 

1 hour ago, Desert Rat said:

I believe the misspellings are symptomatic of his mental illness.  It's not uncommon for someone to have cognitive deficits during a severe depressive episode.  Think about it, if someone is so depressed they are contemplating suicide, simple things like spelling become harder and less important. 

Thank you that was my take as well. 

[Jillybean]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am going to preface this by saying I don't watch this show all that much.  I may channel hop a bit and watch here and there but the one thing I do notice is that at least in the Sea Org they know how to work.  When you work day in and out and then hit the outside world and once the shock wears of an 8 hour day ( with breaks) seems like a vacation.    My guess the ones who really do get out get out with the kind of work ethic a company would kill for.  

I can't imagine, though, how years of experience in the Sea Org looks on a resume -- at least to an employer with no ties to Scientology.

[funky-rat]

21 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

The lingo is one of the things that should scream RED FLAG to new recruits.  It's bizarre.  I know for a fact that it would freak me out*, as well as the sci-fi wanna be elements.  I know for second generation it's just how it is, but how rational adults walk in the door and don't run out screaming is beyond me.  Perhaps these are the people who would be vulnerable to any cult. 

TBH, most organizations have their lingo.  I belong to a 12 step group, and I was at the state meeting 2 weekends ago.  There were so many acronyms and oddball terms being used that someone asked the state to e-mail around a list so we could keep up - especially with the ones that are only at the state level, and can't be looked up in our manuals.

[WInterfalls]

FYI

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-response-to-episode-3/

[ketose]

9 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

That Ron Hubbard guy had terrible teeth.  ugh! No dentists in scientology?  I really don't get what was so special about him or his ideas?

Also, although the interviews are heart wrenching, everyone seems to have done well for themselves after leaving the cult.  Nice and expensive homes.  

I hope the cult is recognized as a cult and required to pay all due taxes immediately on funds collected from the purchase of books and property.  That will shut them down faster than anything.  Maybe the money could be directed to helping Houston in the coming years.  Then, at least, scientology would have actually done some good.

I noticed that in his big birthday gala, the picture of LRH was mouth closed.

 

12 hours ago, Ina123 said:

You're right. But IT geeks were communicating that way long before texting. It's always been a computer shorthand. Texting has just made it more extreme. I'm not saying this is the answer, just a possibility. I think his mental anguish could have had something to do with it.

In the early 1990's, colleges had messaging networks. I was able to text chat with people at my school and other schools through VAX messages.

[msrachelj]

just watched the 5 minute extra scenes of the last episode and had to turn it off. i am so disappointed in this season. i don't like the centering on one person and telling their family story. and i'm sorry but have to say it again. that woman came off as really phony, attention grabbing and playing the camera. i hope this does not continue. just seems too scripted and so different in a negative way from season one. 

[Pondlass1]

1 hour ago, msrachelj said:

just seems too scripted

My heart does go out to these folks, but I have to agree with you somewhat.  It's not fresh like the first season.  I believe their heartfelt stories, of course.... but they're coming across as rehearsed.  I blame the success of the show.  It's now got to be more slick, I guess.

 

Off topic - The show "Love it or List it" was being filmed in a street near me.  I stood by to watch filming. The buyer said his bit over &over again.  The producer would say things like 'can you put more emphasis on this or that...' and the person (who was an actual buyer, of course, not an actor) would say his spiel again. I can never watch that show now because I know it's more or less scripted.  

[Eater of Worlds]

Regarding why they put so much emphasis on vocabulary and reading, I heard it was so that they could talk about Scientology and debate it with people on a higher level and win.  Big words sometimes win over arguments because it makes the other person seem intelligent and that they know what they are talking about.

[Diane Mars]

1 hour ago, Pondlass1 said:

My heart does go out to these folks, but I have to agree with you somewhat.  It's not fresh like the first season.  I believe their heartfelt stories, of course.... but they're coming across as rehearsed.  I blame the success of the show.  It's now got to be more slick, I guess....

My guess : in first season, they talked with people for the "first time", and it was directly shot by the camera. This season, they already met the people, already shared their stories prior filming... So, when it's filmed, it will -of course- lack of the spontaneity of the 1st time, if that makes sense....

Edited September 1, 2017 by Diane Mars

[juliet73]

I think what makes this season diffferent is in S1 each episode was focused on the "inner workings" of Scientology. Each episode concentrated on one part - disconnection,fair game, Miscavige, the production company, etc. And most of those episodes had a former high level scientologist explain the "church's" policies as well as their personal stories. This season is more focused on just the personal stories from former members and the mental damage the "church" has caused them and their loved ones. Even though the episodes are still disturbing and sad, they are not as riveting as S1, IMO.

Edited September 1, 2017 by juliet73

[MaryPatShelby]

On 8/30/2017 at 8:50 AM, 2727 said:

The misspellings in the suicide note were especially odd because of Scientology's insistence on looking up word definitions for hours at a time. People who attended Scientology schools usually have quite an extensive vocabulary (although not necessarily grammar).

I'm going to go look at it again, but I thought all the misspellings were in his email to the ex-girlfriend, not his suicide note.  The actual suicide note looked pretty good to me, which I was kind of surprised me since his spelling had been so odd and poor in the email.

[Quilt Fairy]

15 hours ago, msrachelj said:

just watched the 5 minute extra scenes of the last episode and had to turn it off. i am so disappointed in this season. i don't like the centering on one person and telling their family story. and i'm sorry but have to say it again. that woman came off as really phony, attention grabbing and playing the camera. i hope this does not continue. just seems too scripted and so different in a negative way from season one. 

Emphasis mine.  The single story each episode, tragic as each one may be, is just too exhausting and repetitive to me ("Next week on Leah's show, yet another person describes how Scientology ruined their life!").  I'm beginning to think Leah was right when she originally resisted doing a second season.

[msrachelj]

8 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Emphasis mine.  The single story each episode, tragic as each one may be, is just too exhausting and repetitive to me ("Next week on Leah's show, yet another person describes how Scientology ruined their life!").  I'm beginning to think Leah was right when she originally resisted doing a second season.

exactly. they should have kept the couch. i hate the single person story. too much for one hour. this last one seemed liked she just wanted to be on television. she was extremely phony. i've know people like that. not saying her story wasn't terrible but i could go on tv myself with a sad tale, there is no shortage of grief and shitty lives in this world. i don't need to hear an hour of one persons life. especially when they grate.  they need to change the format . i am so disappointed. 

[Cementhead]

On 8/30/2017 at 11:13 AM, Jillybean said:

That struck me, too. In general, the S2 interviews seem to strike a different tone than those in S1. In S1 I felt it was more of a look behind the curtain in terms of what really goes in in Scientology. It was very informative in terms of giving a real look behind the scenes. Somehow this season feels different, as though there is less direct information about Scientology and its impact, and more vague connections between CO$ and the difficulties endured by the interview subjects. Also the way each interview seems to have been filmed twice (once with Leah and Mike, and once without) and edited together is very distracting to me and seems unnecessary.  Have we figured out yet whether the beautiful homes where each interview subject seems to reside (Liz Gale excepted) is where they somehow have managed to end up living, or if these are just staged for the interviews? 

Oh, how I agree with you x 100.  Try as I might, this season is just not doing it for me.  I couldn't make it through one episode of S1 without multiple tissues and this season?  Not a one.  And I am a crier.  I am just feeling very disconnected to this season.  For me, it is lacking the 'something' that drew me in last season and made me want more.  I'm not saying that these people's stories aren't tragic because they are and they deserve to be told.  But I think you have described why I have not connected with any of it this season.  It's the different tone and the way that it is being filmed.  

I actually came here to see if anyone else was feeling the same way.

ETA:  I added my 2 cents before I read the full 2 pages and see that there is a lot of us on here feeling the very same way in that S2 is disappointing.  S1 was raw.  S2 is too slick and too stylized. 

Edited September 2, 2017 by Cementhead

[ramble]

I'm not feeling disconnected to season two as many of you are. I feel like the first season had so much shock and awe value, as we learned about the sickening underbelly of this cult, that it's a little hard to live up to.

This season, for me, is an expansion on the themes brought up last season. For example, Sicktology hates psychiatrists and counselors and medication for mental health, and here's some personal consequences of living with those things being off limits. Also, children, and family members in general, have little excess value emotionally since you've only been their family member for one of thousands of lives. Here are more ways that impacts people getting help when needing it, and further shows what happens when your support system (family and "church") blame you for your mental illness and tell your to hold onto a tim can and confess it away  

Some of these people may be a little more polished, but I chalk it up to the fact they saw last season and were more prepared about how to relate their story, and the fact that Sicktology spends so much time teaching cult members how to present themselves and speak that by virtue of having been a member they may come off practiced. 

I still find the stories riveting and heartbreaking. I believe Leah and Mike are doing important, vital work in bringing these horrors to light. I'm also glad these people are getting a venue to tell their stories. Writing a blog or being interviewed for a podcast are valid ways to get out the word about the horror that is this cult. However, I think Leah's soapbox must feel like a big, powerful way to get to relate your story to a large audience. That can be healing in and of itself. I can imagine it might have a small freeing effect to know you've told the story of the wrongs of Sicktology to the world. 

[WInterfalls]

2 hours ago, ramble said:

I'm not feeling disconnected to season two as many of you are. I feel like the first season had so much shock and awe value, as we learned about the sickening underbelly of this cult, that it's a little hard to live up to.

This season, for me, is an expansion on the themes brought up last season. For example, Sicktology hates psychiatrists and counselors and medication for mental health, and here's some personal consequences of living with those things being off limits. Also, children, and family members in general, have little excess value emotionally since you've only been their family member for one of thousands of lives. Here are more ways that impacts people getting help when needing it, and further shows what happens when your support system (family and "church") blame you for your mental illness and tell your to hold onto a tim can and confess it away  

Some of these people may be a little more polished, but I chalk it up to the fact they saw last season and were more prepared about how to relate their story, and the fact that Sicktology spends so much time teaching cult members how to present themselves and speak that by virtue of having been a member they may come off practiced. 

I still find the stories riveting and heartbreaking. I believe Leah and Mike are doing important, vital work in bringing these horrors to light. I'm also glad these people are getting a venue to tell their stories. Writing a blog or being interviewed for a podcast are valid ways to get out the word about the horror that is this cult. However, I think Leah's soapbox must feel like a big, powerful way to get to relate your story to a large audience. That can be healing in and of itself. I can imagine it might have a small freeing effect to know you've told the story of the wrongs of Sicktology to the world. 

Completely agree! I understand some frustration with the tone being a bit different, but I still think it is terribly important.  Besides from what I can tell we haven't gotten to a lot of the big bombshells that I think are coming later in the season. i.e. the Danny Masterson stuff. 

[laurakaye]

On 8/30/2017 at 0:30 PM, Showthyme said:

Yeah, that birthday party was creepy. LRH was creepy. It amazes me that he was able to create a cult-following because he was so strange-looking. I really cannot stand to look at him.

It really gives me the shudders when they refer to him as LRH, too - and by that, I mean "Ell-errr-aich."  They don't sound out his initials, they blend them into a brand-new word.  It's almost like a cutesy nickname for those who were familiar with him, I guess...but in this case, the nickname is for a horrible, terrible cult leader.  Every time I hear it (I distinctly heard Leah pronounce it that way too), it creeps me right out.

 

On 8/30/2017 at 0:48 PM, iMonrey said:

And a lot of the terminology seems to consist of made-up words. What were they calling it, when a mother was causing her child to act up? Something like re-animate?

And these made-up words came from the mind of a science-fiction writer.  This flabbergasts me every time.  LRH was a prolific writer.  He wrote stories and sold them before he created Scientology.  The fact that these words and phrases are so strange is probably part of the draw to believers - they have their own language and rules set forth by the great LRH, and of course no one on the outside would understand.  But the very fact that a science fiction writer who, by definition, has to create a strange and believable world in order to sell books, then turns around and uses these ideas to punish and repress a large group of people is just bizarre.

 

On 8/30/2017 at 1:38 PM, CaughtOnTape said:

I was reading something a few days ago about that one video that they show where Tom Cruise is seen extolling the wonderfulness that is Miscavige and apparently that was a leak.  I believe that's the same one where they salute each other.  (WTF?)  One of the guys they interviewed last season was the dude in charge of putting all those videos together and I would assume when he left he took a lot of that with him.

That whole saluting thing is downright terrifying.  Miscavige has got to have plans in place where, if anything should happen to him, Cruise becomes the COS leader, don't you think?  The passionate respect they have for each other is so very odd.  Whenever I see that salute from Cruise, I'm automatically reminded of the psychopath he played in the movie "Taps."  Same unhinged, penetrating glare in his eyes.

Edited September 2, 2017 by laurakaye

[Neurochick]

On September 1, 2017 at 0:55 PM, juliet73 said:

I think what makes this season diffferent is in S1 each episode was focused on the "inner workings" of Scientology. Each episode concentrated on one part - disconnection,fair game, Miscavige, the production company, etc. And most of those episodes had a former high level scientologist explain the "church's" policies as well as their personal stories. This season is more focused on just the personal stories from former members and the mental damage the "church" has caused them and their loved ones. Even though the episodes are still disturbing and sad, they are not as riveting as S1, IMO.

I believe this season, they are focusing on things that perhaps the law could view as criminal.  

I hope they focus on what happens to elderly Sea.Org members.  I've head some awful things about what happens to these people.  

This Sea.Org sounds a lot like human trafficking.  How can a minor, or anybody else, sign a billion year contract?  I don't get it.

[mattie0808]

11 hours ago, ramble said:

I'm not feeling disconnected to season two as many of you are. I feel like the first season had so much shock and awe value, as we learned about the sickening underbelly of this cult, that it's a little hard to live up to.

This season, for me, is an expansion on the themes brought up last season.

I agree, I'm actually a bit more into this season, if anything. But maybe for a different reason. I don't know how many longer-term Scientology watchers are here, but to me, the first season was a (riveting!) retelling of the escaped and now anti-Scientologists greatest hits. Starting with Rinder. But also Amy and Bonnie Scobee, Mark and Claire Headley, Ron Miscavige, Tom Devocht...during the "specials" with the Reddit AMAs...Chris Shelton, Paulette Cooper, Karen de la Carriere, Jeffrey Augustine. All of these folks have been out of the church for some time, and have told their stories more than once, in their own books, interviews, in the Tampa-newspapers "Truth Rundowns," in Going Clear, and who knows what else. I'm in no way trying to take away from what they did in agreeing to come on THIS show, and I would never be the one to try to minimize what this show and Leah are doing. It's absolutely huge. But, if you've read Leah's book or kept up with her since she left, or have been following the church for awhile, most of Season 1 was known stories told in a compelling, and sometimes, new, way.

Season 2 is a natural outcome, IMO, of what some have already mentioned...once the show was out and highly successful, they started hearing from EVERYONE. And I think Leah, now having literally too many stories to tell, decided to be deliberate about what she chose to highlight in season 2. The type of things most likely to get the church in actual, legal trouble, as opposed to PR/public perception trouble (every single time last season Mike told her that what she was "doing" was "exposing" the church, she never seemed happy or satisfied with that, and while I think she's hard on herself, I don't disagree). So... Season 2? Children. Suicides. Things that are current (like the mother from this week's episode selling the land after the episode was taped). Things that are either permanent, not subject to statutes of limitations (or to much longer ones), or that are potentially so horrifying to the public at large that they can't be ignored.

And, besides ALL of that...I still feel like we're learning about the "behind the curtain" truth of Scientology. The quote from LRH about how 7-year-old girls should be totally fine with a grown man kissing them passionately hit me like a ton of bricks, whatever I already knew about Scientology and them treating children as adults.  Saina's pictures of her time as a child in the Sea Org/at the ranch were incredible, and some amazing proof of the child labor issues with the church. Loved the LRH birthday party, hahaha. A mother purposefully isolating her troubled daughter (who DID report her issues through the "right" channels in the church) or telling her daughter the church sent her to the daughter's bedside after a suicide attempt or the church lying about a Sea Org's member's suicide to the point that his wife is asked about her husband years later...that's Scientology in action in a way we did not see last year, and in a way, to some extent, I think even Scientology watchers may not know in the same detail. And next week promises a lot of David M. info.

I'm on the side of being impressed with how Leah and Mike have chosen to progress the show. They are absolutely gunning for law enforcement involvement, and to push the envelope of what they, and *particularly* Mike, can possibly be comfortable with. But it's important enough to do, while keeping the show compelling viewing. Good for them. And it's clearly driving the church nuts, giving their responses so far, particularly on social media. I'm all in.

Edited September 3, 2017 by mattie0808

[ramble]

3 hours ago, mattie0808 said:

The quote from LRH about how 7-year-old girls should be totally fine with a grown man kissing them passionately hit me like a ton of bricks, 

I'm pulling this out because it bears repeating over and over again. 7 year olds being kissed passionately by grown men. That alone should shutter CO$. LRH was a sick, twisted man who left disgusting rules and regulations instructing his followers who believe they have to follow him word for word. Evil seems too mild a word. 

Edited September 3, 2017 by ramble

[msrachelj]

On 8/30/2017 at 2:08 PM, Whimsy said:

They didn't specifically say.  I was also surprised she was allowed to live there, but then they stated that her mother was selling the land instead of letting her live there.  Maybe it was left to her as part of a trust or something?

if when you leave scientology your family disowns you, i don't see how she is able to be living in a family home? something seems fishy.

[mattie0808]

39 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

if when you leave scientology your family disowns you, i don't see how she is able to be living in a family home? something seems fishy.

I thought, from what was posted over at the Bunker, that things only really came to a head between her and her mother late last year, and the mother (with her husband) left the ranch to travel for an extended period of time...to me, it also sounds like the mother was holding out hope that she could get her grandsons into Scientology, especially if the land was used as a bargaining piece. It's not like someone living in their parents' guest room or something, that land was huge. I don't know when they would have shot this, but Mike Rinder says at his blog that the mother sold the land shortly afterward, and so Liz and her family haven't been living there any more for a while...

[spiderpig]

Personal impressions from this ep:

• That Oregon property was beyond gorgeous.  It soothed my soul just to look at it.
• If e-meters have anything to do with Leah's and Liz's fabulous hair, order me one*.

(*But leave the creepy cult out of it.)

[Maelstrom]

On 9/2/2017 at 4:47 PM, mattie0808 said:

I agree, I'm actually a bit more into this season, if anything. But maybe for a different reason. I don't know how many longer-term Scientology watchers are here, but to me, the first season was a (riveting!) retelling of the escaped and now anti-Scientologists greatest hits.  ...

Season 2 is a natural outcome, IMO, of what some have already mentioned...once the show was out and highly successful, they started hearing from EVERYONE. And I think Leah, now having literally too many stories to tell, decided to be deliberate about what she chose to highlight in season 2. The type of things most likely to get the church in actual, legal trouble. ...

And, besides ALL of that...I still feel like we're learning about the "behind the curtain" truth of Scientology. The quote from LRH about how 7-year-old girls should be totally fine with a grown man kissing them passionately hit me like a ton of bricks, whatever I already knew about Scientology and them treating children as adults.  ...

I'm on the side of being impressed with how Leah and Mike have chosen to progress the show. They are absolutely gunning for law enforcement involvement, and to push the envelope of what they, and *particularly* Mike, can possibly be comfortable with. But it's important enough to do, while keeping the show compelling viewing.

A giant, whipped cream with sprinkles on top WORD to your entire post, mattie. Thanks for putting my own thoughts into such well-written words for me. ;) The first season definitely felt like Scientology for WOGs 101 - a fascinating look at cult through the heavy hitters who were first to bravely speak out, and thus opened the floodgates for more stories to come pouring out. And while it's easy to write off season 2 as sensationalism at first glance, I think you're absolutely right that Leah, Mike et al are showcasing the stories that rip the last of the kooky Xenu-lovin' facade off CO$, and expose the mind-twisting malevolence beneath. Leah and Mike both have clearly made this their mission in life - they could've taken the easy route of staying quiet, or the Rathbun/Davis route of going back to their former overlords rather than face the real world. But I can't think there's anything easy about making this show, and I commend them for their continued work. And I trust that they will keep it from devolving into the sludge that is most reality television. So whatever they feel is is important enough to share with the world, I'm with them.

[bethster2000]

I lost my uncle to suicide as a direct result of his life in $cientology.  I will bet that it is actually an epidemic in that "church."  I will bet that there are many more deaths because of LRH and his fucked-up nonsense.

Mike Rinder, if you are reading this, please know that I am a family member who does not blame you at all for your time and doings with $cientology.  I worry about you when I watch the show.  Your pain is visible.

It's my hope that they do a show on Lisa McPherson.  That dear lady and her torment should be remembered.

[RedheadZombie]

7 minutes ago, bethster2000 said:

I lost my uncle to suicide as a direct result of his life in $cientology.  I will bet that it is actually an epidemic in that "church."  I will bet that there are many more deaths because of LRH and his fucked-up nonsense.

Mike Rinder, if you are reading this, please know that I am a family member who does not blame you at all for your time and doings with $cientology.  I worry about you when I watch the show.  Your pain is visible.

It's my hope that they do a show on Lisa McPherson.  That dear lady and her torment should be remembered.

Me too!  But that's linking CO$ directly to a death, and I'm afraid they're not quite brave enough - yet.

[film noire]

3 hours ago, bethster2000 said:

I lost my uncle to suicide as a direct result of his life in $cientology. 

 

Bethster, that must have been awful. So sorry your family had to live through that.

Quote

It's my hope that they do a show on Lisa McPherson.  That dear lady and her torment should be remembered.

Cockroach bites. Those goddamn pieces of shit,  may they all rot in Xenu hell. 

Edited September 6, 2017 by film noire

[funky-rat]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 0:39 PM, msrachelj said:

if when you leave scientology your family disowns you, i don't see how she is able to be living in a family home? something seems fishy.

That was touched on more in-depth on some other sites.  She and her mother were getting along adequately until she had her children.  Her mother loudly proclaimed they would be 4th generation Scientologists, and the daughter was having none of it.  After her mom and husband number FOUR took off on a cross-country trip, she decided she would not have the risk of her mother indoctrinating her kids, and she wrote her mom a letter (I'm pretty sure that's how it went - I'm a little iffy as my mind is fuzzy today).  I think the daughter believed her mom would still allow her to live there, but the mom instead said she was selling the property, and get out.  I believe the daughter was technically out of the church before that.  I know one of the articles I read said the daughter and her husband were growing pot on the land, and that may have also had something to do with it.

[RichiesOlderBro]

On 8/31/2017 at 11:34 AM, Jillybean said:

I can't imagine, though, how years of experience in the Sea Org looks on a resume -- at least to an employer with no ties to Scientology.

Can't think they would have too many skills that translate into the real world other than blindly following instructions.   

 

That and sales. 

[Diane Mars]

57 minutes ago, RichiesOlderBro said:

Can't think they would have too many skills that translate into the real world other than blindly following instructions.   

 

That and sales. 

You can add commitment and longs hours working, at any given task. That's crazy to see. For real. (FYI I was a "wog" in an ex WISE affiliated enterprise, working with an OTIV -my ex boss- an OTVIII (yes !), who was his wife and an OTV or VI -don't remember- as the sales rep. But I really have a good experience of all that shit, while always having been able to keep outside of it)

Edited September 6, 2017 by Diane Mars

[millahnna]

On 8/30/2017 at 8:08 AM, Jillybean said:

I sort of thought the same, though I believe his suicide was in 1998, before the advent of texting.

 

The first text was sent in 92.  98ish is about the time that it's considered to have started blowing up because real keyboard phones were starting to come out and T9/predictive text was about to phase out.  I texted frequently in the late 90s.  It was generally using the predictive text thing. 

[ketose]

On 9/6/2017 at 2:15 PM, funky-rat said:

That was touched on more in-depth on some other sites.  She and her mother were getting along adequately until she had her children.  Her mother loudly proclaimed they would be 4th generation Scientologists, and the daughter was having none of it.  After her mom and husband number FOUR took off on a cross-country trip, she decided she would not have the risk of her mother indoctrinating her kids, and she wrote her mom a letter (I'm pretty sure that's how it went - I'm a little iffy as my mind is fuzzy today).  I think the daughter believed her mom would still allow her to live there, but the mom instead said she was selling the property, and get out.  I believe the daughter was technically out of the church before that.  I know one of the articles I read said the daughter and her husband were growing pot on the land, and that may have also had something to do with it.

I'd like to know the source, because growing pot on the property sounds a lot like what Scientology uses to smear people. 

[funky-rat]

1 hour ago, ketose said:

I'd like to know the source, because growing pot on the property sounds a lot like what Scientology uses to smear people. 

The girl was the one who said it.  She said she and her boyfriend (or husband - can't remember) opted to grow pot on the property to take advantage of some new laws or something.  The link to the article is in this thread somewhere.

[smorbie]

On 8/30/2017 at 3:40 PM, peaceknit said:

Thanks, it looked very beautiful.

Next week's epi is about Miscavige. He needs to be taken DOWN. Cut the head off the snake.

The COUNCIL OF SNAKES would like to take this opportunity to remind you that any resemblance to the head of the crock of shi...cientology is merely coincidental.  Also, many snakes are kind, helpful, and give to charities.  They are important to the environment in ways I'm not willing to research just now.  

Again, thank you for your interest in snakes.  And always remember, we are better than Miscavige.

Edited September 8, 2017 by smorbie

[FairyDusted]

Fuck I hope they grew massive amounts of Chronic! They deserved some good ass herb.