S07.E06: Beyond the Wall

[Cyranetta]

One thing I noticed about Tyrion this episode - he seems to be quite comfortable strolling among the dragons, which is probably a valuable quality in the Queen's Hand...

[taanja]

19 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Maybe she remembers Sansa not having her back in season one when one of their wolves bit the shit out of that little shit Joeffry. If I recall correctly, Sansa stood up there and lied, or at least pretended she didn't know who started the damn fight. And all of that ended with one of the wolves being killed. Maybe that sticks in her mind and she sees it as Sansa willing to do just about anything to fulfill her princes fantasies, that's all I can think of. So her mistrust in Sansa goes back to that point even before they got to Kings Landing, even before their father was murdered. I know I remember that scene and Arya being pissed and calling Sansa a liar in front of  everyone. Now I know that Sansa is not that girl anymore, I personally want her to be Queen of the North. But I'm thinking that impression could be stuck in Arya's head. 

Arya hasn't seen Sansa since that time. 

I don't hate either sister. I can see both sides. I even like Littlefinger. But I want one or both of the Stark sisters to be his end. Seriously. It will be glorious. Stab that fucker in the heart.

[GraceK]

What was the point of Littlefijger honestly?? He started off making sense on some level, starting the war and killing his enemies...but it seems really naive to think all this maneuvering would get him the iron throne. How did he plan on not only beating the Lannister, but ALSO Dany and her dragons? I'm sincerely confused, I feel like his ARC went nowhere 

[BitterApple]

7 minutes ago, GraceK said:

What was the point of Littlefijger honestly?? He started off making sense on some level, starting the war and killing his enemies...but it seems really naive to think all this maneuvering would get him the iron throne. How did he plan on not only beating the Lannister, but ALSO Dany and her dragons? I'm sincerely confused, I feel like his ARC went nowhere 

It's unfortunate, but I think HBO telling D&D to wrap things up really screwed the pooch in terms of the supporting players' story lines. There's just not enough time left to let things play out rationally, so we're getting a rush job where characters are doing nonsensical things to barrel the show towards a conclusion. 

[CeeBeeGee]

8 hours ago, Popples said:

Dany and Jon are aunt and nephew, just roughly the same age. Rhaegar was Viserys and Dany's older brother and Jon's father.

And uncle-niece marriages were not uncommon in Europe (on the Continent, not so much in Britain) during the Middle Ages and later. The Hapsburgs were quite famous for it, which ended up (after MANY generations of inbreeding) producing the extremely unfortunate Charles the Bewitched.

 

8 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I'd also like to add Ser Davos--that man's could read from a phone book and I'd be mesmerized :)

 

THIS!  Arya apparently has a selective memory about the day their dad died and she’s decided that Sansa’s a coward even though she has no idea what Sansa went through and most importantly, Arya doesn't seem to care.  Nice.  And I think what disturbs me the most about Arya’s behavior is her subtly threatening Sansa with a knife.  Her sister Sansa, who is a rape victim and who most probably suffered at Ramsay’s hands with a dagger just like that.  For me, there’s no coming back from that.

I don’t think this is what the Faceless Men had in mind when they trained Arya to be an assassin.  Isn't the Faceless God supposed to dictate who lives and who dies?  It seems that Arya is using her knowledge to take revenge on Sansa for petty childhood squabbles what with the mean comments about Sansa’s knitting, her pretty gowns and her pretty handwriting and if Sansa wanted power then wouldn’t she have grabbed it already? 

This entire storyline is making Arya look like a schoolyard bully and I'm kind of embarrassed for her.

I like the theory that Arya and/or Sansa are saying these things for an audience but if we never SEE their intended audience, Littlefinger skulking about and eavesdropping, it doesn't read that way. It just reads like Arya being nasty. And yes, you're right--threatening Sansa with a knife after what she went through with Ramsay is awful. Please, PLEASE let this be some kind of act. I don't like not liking Arya (although I've never forgotten her obnoxious remark "most girls are idiots" to Tywin back in Season 2. Arya, don't be that girl. The one that says "I'm not annoying/a jealous bitch/high-maintenance/pick your epithet, I'm a COOL girl." There is nothing wrong with being a tomboy--I was one as well--but you don't need to trash the girly-girls).

 

7 hours ago, dangwoodchucks said:

For some reason I'm thinking that undead Viserion will be firing ice cubes.

 Maybe I could rent him for my next party.

(*Sniff,* I'm still so sad about Viserion. Poor baby dragon, just trying to help his mother and her friends. Fuck the Night King!)

[bethster2000]

25 minutes ago, GraceK said:

What was the point of Littlefijger honestly?? He started off making sense on some level, starting the war and killing his enemies...but it seems really naive to think all this maneuvering would get him the iron throne. How did he plan on not only beating the Lannister, but ALSO Dany and her dragons? I'm sincerely confused, I feel like his ARC went nowhere

Agreed.  I would watch a show just with Sam, Littlefinger, and Varys.  LF was such an interesting individual in past seasons.  Remember when he ran the brothel?  Sometimes I miss THAT Game of Thrones.

Espcially since killing dragons is apparently A-OK.  Not in my book, hoss.

[TaurusRose]

13 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

(*Sniff,* I'm still so sad about Viserion. Poor baby dragon, just trying to help his mother and her friends. Fuck the Night King!)

Waaaaaaaaaaaaah! ?

[CletusMusashi]

If the zombie dragon has freeze breath, the undead infantry may have just gained the ability to march across rivers.

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

Arya apparently has a selective memory about the day their dad died and she’s decided that Sansa’s a coward even though she has no idea what Sansa went through and most importantly, Arya doesn't seem to care.  Nice.  And I think what disturbs me the most about Arya’s behavior is her subtly threatening Sansa with a knife.  Her sister Sansa, who is a rape victim and who most probably suffered at Ramsay’s hands with a dagger just like that.  For me, there’s no coming back from that.

And yet, she handed the knife to Sansa, in a proper way (turning it so Sansa got the hilt end).  Given all the reactions and references to the knife (by the characters) in the last few episodes, it seems to me that there is more to it. I don't understand it, and I could spin a couple of different theories, but I think I'll just go along for the ride. Though I haven't a clue how they'll put it all together for the finale.

Oh my god. I just did some checking and am so happy. I didn't realize there was another season, and thought this was the series finale. I'm both happy and a little embarrassed. LOL

Edited August 22, 2017 by Clanstarling

[festivus]

I can't keep up with the other thread so I don't know what's been said about the chains. My speculation is that the Night King may have had some of the army carrying them for a while. I think he's kind of like Bran and that he sees things or bits of things and knew they'd be needed. 

[BitterApple]

4 minutes ago, festivus said:

I can't keep up with the other thread so I don't know what's been said about the chains. My speculation is that the Night King may have had some of the army carrying them for a while. I think he's kind of like Bran and that he sees things or bits of things and knew they'd be needed. 

That makes sense, especially if it was always part of the plan to kill and turn a dragon. 

[MrsR]

I'm telling you. right now, this is how they win. Ground dragon glass dropped from the sky by dragon riders!  From way up high!! Further than the Night King can reach!

 

Like a chem trail!!

 

Since Viserion was hit in his fire .. .hmmm... section, if he blows out ice won't it come out of the unhealed hole?

[Andromeda]

11 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I'd also like to add Ser Davos--that man's could read from a phone book and I'd be mesmerized :)

 

THIS!  Arya apparently has a selective memory about the day their dad died and she’s decided that Sansa’s a coward even though she has no idea what Sansa went through and most importantly, Arya doesn't seem to care.  Nice.  And I think what disturbs me the most about Arya’s behavior is her subtly threatening Sansa with a knife.  Her sister Sansa, who is a rape victim and who most probably suffered at Ramsay’s hands with a dagger just like that.  For me, there’s no coming back from that.

I don’t think this is what the Faceless Men had in mind when they trained Arya to be an assassin.  Isn't the Faceless God supposed to dictate who lives and who dies?  It seems that Arya is using her knowledge to take revenge on Sansa for petty childhood squabbles what with the mean comments about Sansa’s knitting, her pretty gowns and her pretty handwriting and if Sansa wanted power then wouldn’t she have grabbed it already? 

This entire storyline is making Arya look like a schoolyard bully and I'm kind of embarrassed for her.

For all the anger I felt toward the Faceless Men and the House of Black and White during Arya's training, I take it all back. I now understand why they want their assassins to subjugate their egos. Arya rejected that training, and she's got a huge chip on her shoulder that could seriously hurt Sansa -- for no reason but Arya's own satisfaction. It's sick.

Much less twins.

Genetically speaking, Cersei and Jamie are no closer than any other brother and sister, since they're fraternal twins (which they'd have to be since they are different sexes).

Edited August 23, 2017 by Andromeda

[Neurochick]

On Sunday, I was pissed off at Arya and I felt she was nothing more than a brat.  But, both Arya and Sansa were children when their father was executed and their lives were turned upside down, children living in a world of very cruel, evil adults.  Both of them grew up extremely fast.  Both of them suffered terribly.  

What I thought was interesting was that neither Arya nor Sansa knows who the other one is.  The Sansa, Arya remembers isn't the same person she is now, she's the little girl who wanted to be queen, and Sansa still sees Arya as her annoying little sister.  They just don't have the eyes to see each other as adults because neither one knows what the other went through.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

8 hours ago, Calamity Jane said:

Yes, Gendry figured out "Arry" was a girl along the way, and Arya then told him her identity.  

Quote

After they were caught by the Brotherhood, the Hound was also captured and told them who Arya was, and the Brotherhood decided to take her to her family and ransom her back for much-needed funds.

[Macbeth]

On 8/21/2017 at 1:07 PM, The Companion said:

I think Tyrion provides a necessary perspective, even if it is sometimes unrealistic. We have seen that conquerors do not necessarily make great kings. Part of that is seeing the other side as the enemy, which is a necessary perspective when fighting a war, but a problematic one when ruling. Tyrion defaults to diplomatic means. I think his point with the Tarleys is that it might have been possible to get them on her side, or at least continue the family line with the hopes of creating mortal enemies out of the survivors. I don't think he is a double agent, but I do think he is trying to avoid being like his siblings. Cersei rules with fear, but she can only remain in power so long as she has people to protect her because everyone is hoping she chokes on her wine. 

Daenerys was probably spot on when she pointed out that he is so focused on the future, he is missing the obvious issues in front of them. However, I think she is being short sighted as well. I don't blame Tyrion for being concerned that she is promising to build a world that she cannot possibly create in her lifetime, with no plan as to how to sustain it. 

Tyrion is a peace time consiglieri.  At his heart.  Varys is too.  Thank God Jorah is back.

And Bronn really nailed him when he told Tyrion that his problem is that he wants everyone to love him. 

Unfortunately for Tyrion that he is negotiating the possible meeting for the truce with the other Lannister that wants everyone to love him.  Yet Jaime knows they are completely screwed if peace cannot be negotiated.

But Cersei will not be able to resist her inclination to try to kill all her enemies while they there.  Tyrion admitted it as much - and he has no plan?  Where the F is Varys in all of this?

[DarkRaichu]

1 minute ago, Macbeth said:

Tyrion is a peace time consiglieri.  At his heart.  Varys is too.  Thank God Jorah is back.

And Bronn really nailed him when he told Tyrion that his problem is that he wants everyone to love him. 

Unfortunately for Tyrion that he is negotiating the possible meeting for the truce with the other Lannister that wants everyone to love him.  Yet Jaime knows they are completely screwed if peace cannot be negotiated.

But Cersei will not be able to resist her inclination to try to kill all her enemies while they there.  Tyrion admitted it as much - and he has no plan?  Where the F is Varys in all of this?

Agreed.  What happened to Varys' little birds in KL?  Shouldn't they be chirping by now?  Did Qyburn get them all to his side?  For a Master Spy, Varys' lack of intel as of late is very disturbing

[enoughcats]

Speaking of voices, Beric (Richard Dormer) talks about being able to see the island in the middle of the ice lake from his home in Ireland and other things about not dying yet.

Beric  talks about this episode

[Couver]

6 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

If the zombie dragon has freeze breath, the undead infantry may have just gained the ability to march across rivers.

Would it matter though? They can clearly swim since at least some of them swam down to hook Viserion's corpse up to the chains.

[The Companion]

4 minutes ago, Couver said:

Would it matter though? They can clearly swim since at least some of them swam down to hook Viserion's corpse up to the chains.

We haven't seen them swim, have we? That was why the water stopped them during the battle. They basically just sink. I suspect they just sacrificed some of them, and left them at the bottom of the lake.

[CletusMusashi]

But did they swim back up?

We saw them stop pursuit at Hardhome when the humans took to sea. granted, that could have been deliberate, because maybe the NK had some prophecy about The One Who Knows Nothing eventually leading a dragon into their clutches. But if we assume water isn't a barrier, then the wall quickly becomes much easier to get past, because they can just go into the ocean on either side and splash their way south. If we assume it is a barrier, then keeping all their zombie bears, wolves, mammoths, and spy-eagles a secret in order to gain a zombie ice-dragon maks a lot more sense.

Edited August 23, 2017 by CletusMusashi

[LittleIggy]

Weren't the dragon eggs given to Dany as a wedding gift? And they were considered "dead," right? Wish they could find some more eggs at Dragonstone or even King's Landing.

[Lady S.]

4 hours ago, BitterApple said:

It's unfortunate, but I think HBO telling D&D to wrap things up really screwed the pooch in terms of the supporting players' story lines. There's just not enough time left to let things play out rationally, so we're getting a rush job where characters are doing nonsensical things to barrel the show towards a conclusion. 

No one told D&D to wrap things up. HBO would have given their most successful show 10+ seasons if they could, but D&D are adapting an unfinished book series and now all they have to go on is some endgame outline and whatever other unwritten ideas Evil Santa's told them, having to fill in the journey to those plot points all on their own. So, here we are. I think the shortened seasons are more budgetary so they can have all these huge setpieces without money stretched over a full ten epis and they can spend more time on those big scenes without having to make a full 10 epis in the same limited timeframe. The beyond the wall showdown this ep and the loot train battle in 7.04 both took as long as the BotB last season.

I've been ignoring the whole Arya/Sansa/Littlefinger mess because that's how much the whole thing frustrates me, but I think the most confusing aspect of the Winterfell scenes may be the Brienne angle. I feel like the implication is that Sansa's worried Brienne would choose Arya over her but that possibility just makes no sense. Sansa apparently knows that Brienne likes Jaime, she saw Brienne bowing to Joffrey at his wedding, and she and Arya both rejected Brienne at first for her Lannister so Sansa should know Brienne wouldn't care that Cersei tricked her into writing a harmless letter. She should have no reason to doubt that Brienne would guard her if Arya actually tried anything. Unless Sansa actually wants Brienne out of the way so she can have Arya killed, which I don't believe, then her wanting Brienne gone just feels like a contrivance to make sure Bri can be Jaime's morality pet again when he learns about the Great War.

[Couver]

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

We haven't seen them swim, have we? That was why the water stopped them during the battle. They basically just sink. I suspect they just sacrificed some of them, and left them at the bottom of the lake.

I always assumed the same thing. But who fastened the chains? Viserion sank. The dragons must weight somewhere in the tons now. He must have sunk to the bottom. Unless a few WW went in and tied the chains? Honestly it probably still is canon they can't swim. I'm just annoyed at the sloppiness of that scene.

The NK doesn't normally need to touch to create a wight. It would have been easy to just have him raise his hand and have wight Viserion fly out of the lake.

[The Companion]

Just now, Couver said:

I always assumed the same thing. But who fastened the chains? Viserion sank. The dragons must weight somewhere in the tons now. He must have sunk to the bottom. Unless a few WW went in and tied the chains? Honestly it probably still is canon they can't swim. I'm just annoyed at the sloppiness of that scene.

The NK doesn't normally need to touch to create a wight. It would have been easy to just have him raise his hand and have wight Viserion fly out of the lake.

But the dragon wouldn't be able to swim either, right? I just figured he either had some go down there, and left them, or he used the existing ones on the lakebottom from the battle. It wasn't really explained, but that was what I assumed. I hear you, though. It would be nice for some answers on stuff like this. 

[MrSmith]

13 hours ago, MrsR said:

Since Viserion was hit in his fire .. .hmmm... section, if he blows out ice won't it come out of the unhealed hole?

This is why I don't think the dragon will have a breath weapon. If he does have a breath weapon, then it will probably be more magical in nature (instead of, say, fire or ice, which are more natural). And if the dragon does have a breath weapon, then I think his bond to Daenerys will be great enough that he'll choose not to fight against her (and maybe he'll actually fight for her).

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

But did they swim back up?

I didn't see any emerge from the water. You have to have a certain buoyancy to swim. Certainly the skeletal ones couldn't do it.

8 hours ago, Couver said:

I always assumed the same thing. But who fastened the chains? Viserion sank. The dragons must weight somewhere in the tons now. He must have sunk to the bottom. Unless a few WW went in and tied the chains? Honestly it probably still is canon they can't swim. I'm just annoyed at the sloppiness of that scene.

The water seemed to be a barrier when they broke through it - though how they got the chains on Viserion is certainly not in keeping with that.

Though...since the ones underwater are still undead, maybe the ones on ice just lowered the chains down to them, and they did the work of attaching the chains to the dragons.

[CletusMusashi]

They don't need to be able to swim in order to fasten chains. It's not like they're going to freeze or suffocate. They just might get stuck under water. And I don't really think the walkers controlling them care if they lose a few more human zombies in the process of gaining a dragon.

Edited August 23, 2017 by CletusMusashi

[Mabinogia]

Yeah, I just picture all those who fell into the water just kind of walking around on the bottom. There are so many, and it's pretty easy to make more, so I doubt their "masters" much care. I imagine someone was all "hey, while you're down there, mind hooking this chain up to the big dragon? yeah, yeah, we'll haul you guys up too, as soon as we get that dragon, you just stay right there" Of course, it's easier to make more zombies than dredge those ones up, so I wouldn't hold my breath (though I guess zombies don't have breath to hold so that's not really an issue).

[LuciaMia]

Among the things Id like to see in the final episode, is something happening to make the NK look perturbed. If only for a moment.

[enoughcats]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

the work of attaching the chains to the dragons.

I know magic's the reason.  

BUT, how many walkers would it take to lift one link of chain?  There's an exercise in weight lifting, where a guy lifts chain from a squat position, and as he stands up, it gets much harder because the chain weights are additive and they get much heavier.  
This picture shows a bunch of muscles with a man inside of them, lifting with chains.

And there's less metal in all those links than in one dragon dragging link

[taanja]

17 hours ago, festivus said:

I can't keep up with the other thread so I don't know what's been said about the chains. My speculation is that the Night King may have had some of the army carrying them for a while. I think he's kind of like Bran and that he sees things or bits of things and knew they'd be needed. 

The chains or where they came from didn't bother me or mine while watching. But we are the perfect audience-- we are unspoiled and just go with the flow. So giant chains in the middle of nowhere? No problemo!

[festivus]

I know. I didn't even think about where the chains came from until I was reading here. I'm just along for the ride.

[Jersey Guy 87]

1 hour ago, taanja said:

The chains or where they came from didn't bother me or mine while watching. But we are the perfect audience-- we are unspoiled and just go with the flow. So giant chains in the middle of nowhere? No problemo!

I assume they just grabbed the chains the wildings used to try and pull open the gate to the Wall.  It's as plausible as anything else.

[ImpinAintEasy]

The Night King is thousands of years old. I think he could come up with chains somewhere in that time. Either from ships that wrecked North of the Wall, or were attacked. I had no trouble conjuring up a scenario where they found the chains. 

[Macbeth]

16 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Agreed.  What happened to Varys' little birds in KL?  Shouldn't they be chirping by now?  Did Qyburn get them all to his side?  For a Master Spy, Varys' lack of intel as of late is very disturbing

Unfortunately they have been co-opted by Qyburn.  Last we saw of them they were instrumental in the killing of Pycelle and the destruction of the Sept.  

[Keepitmoving]

When the Hound threw that first stone and it hit that walker in the face, I laughed so hard. I was like, he doesn't have much face left and I think more of his face fell off after it got hit. This show has some really good humorous moments considering how dark it is.

[The Companion]

31 minutes ago, ImpinAintEasy said:

The Night King is thousands of years old. I think he could come up with chains somewhere in that time. Either from ships that wrecked North of the Wall, or were attacked. I had no trouble conjuring up a scenario where they found the chains. 

I think this is what it comes down to for me. There are plausible explanations for most of the things that people are objecting to, and I would rather not have a bunch of clunky exposition or scenes that could be devoted to characters I love instead showing wights rambling to a coastal town to get the chains that were used on a ship or giant's town to get the chains used to tie up the giant's woolly mammoth, or whatever the explanation. 

I can't believe I have to wait until Sunday for the next episode. I knew I would regret catching up.

[paigow]

2 zombies reached up through the water to pull Jon in....so there are some olympic swimmer zombies to go along with track and field zombies... Hundreds of them outran 7 humans to the other side of the lake....

Edited August 23, 2017 by paigow

[paigow]

The Hound threw away Gendry's Hammer...did anybody pick it up? 

[ennui]

On 8/20/2017 at 7:14 PM, Popples said:

With so few people on that mission, there wouldn't be too many redshirts to die in place of the fan favorites.

This actually crossed my mind -- it was like Star Trek, and all of the important people are in the landing party.  :)

They all claim to be freezing, yet no one wears a hat. (Yes, I know, tv and we need to see their faces, blah blah, but seriously. Hats.)

[LocimusPrime]

Sansa sucks.

If all three dragons attacked the NK at the same time, it would be game over. Kaput 

17 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Weren't the dragon eggs given to Dany as a wedding gift? And they were considered "dead," right? Wish they could find some more eggs at Dragonstone or even King's Landing.

I'm hoping they do. Like a dozen or so.

I hate the night king. He's annoying. What does he want anyway? He already has a bunch of lamd with tons of zombies. 

Ooooh Jon and dragon queen are on a get it on.

[whoknowswho]

47 minutes ago, LocimusPrime said:

Sansa sucks.

I just watched the entire series from the start for the first time, and have not read the books.   I started off hating Sansa for being a brat about her "beloved" Joffrey, letting her father get killed (I know, she really didn't, but I'd at least have smacked Joffrey's ugly face!) and didn't really ever like her until she showed guts with Ramsey getting chewed on by his hounds. 

I totally love Arya, though--I might not be totally thrilled with her this past episode, but as long as she doesn't kill The Hound, I'm good. Sansa though, I don't know what's up with her--is she planning on killing her little sister or what? She's learned subterfuge, developed a backbone, and become a force in Winterfell, but she's still family. I hope she has a secret plan to have Littlefinger's face removed by her little sister. I'd be down with that. 

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

The Hound threw away Gendry's Hammer...did anybody pick it up? 

Did he throw it away or did he take it? I assumed he took it, but now I'm not sure when that was, and sure didn't check when they were on the dragon.

I started out the series loving Arya (the cute, plucky one) and disliking (not hating) Sansa (the social climber). I don't particularly dislike Sansa any more, she's showing that she has a good head on her shoulders. And I don't love Arya anymore, for all that I want to. Both of them have been shaped by their awful experiences, and both have developed coping mechanisms that aren't warm and cuddly. Even Lady Mormont wouldn't be quite as awesome if she'd been subjected to years of what Sansa and Arya endured.  

So I accept them as they are - still protagonists in my book, but I wouldn't want to be friends with either of them. Nevertheless, I hope with all my heart, that what we've been seeing is them playing Littlefinger and that he'll get a properly satisfying death. Maybe death by Nymeria, maybe death by a thousand cuts of his own dagger - and then, of course, there's the moon door.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Clanstarling

[ennui]

I think Arya is the personification of “Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.” I can't see her coming back from her vengeance to a normal life.

When I watched the scene with Sansa, I thought all of the Stark kids are weird. Can you imagine Thanksgiving? 

Edited August 23, 2017 by ennui

[lucindabelle]

On 8/22/2017 at 4:25 AM, Isazouzi said:

J  

But in all this, my main question is still this: what does the NK want? Really? So he raises an army of the dead, presumably to march south, turn everyone he encounters into wights, so his army gets even bigger, and when he's converted every single being in Westeros, then what? What's the point? Does he want something else that we don't know? Something that would make sense of all this pointless fighting? Someone should try to talk to him, maybe he's be reasonable! ;-)

I

It is a BIG problem with any absolute evil plot lines.

 

what does the Empire want? What does Darth Vader want?

 

IRL evil always has an objective that has some kind of logic. Even charles Manson.

 

in fiction not so much.

[Couver]

1 hour ago, LocimusPrime said:

 

If all three dragons attacked the NK at the same time, it would be game over. Kaput 

 

Good point. We know dragon fire doesn't hurt him and he didn't seem scared of the dragons. But if they physically tried to eat him I wonder if he would survive? 

The WW are strong but their durability is hard to guess. Seeing them shatter like glass vs valyrian steel makes them seem fragile. 

[Katalina]

Quote

I don’t understand what they are doing with Arya and Sansa. Their conflict is so nonsensical.

I'm hoping that they're playing the “long con” on Littlefinger. They keep having their poisonous little spats pretty much in public, and loudly.

For those who say that Tyrion is betraying Dany, even subconsciously, for his “family,” just what family would that be? Only Jamie at this point. I think Tyrion understands the need to get rid of Cersei and I think he's totally on board with killing her. He has affection, even love, for Jamie, but I don't see that he'd betray Dany.

As for those comments on how the zombies had a chain, etc., I thought it was fun to notice that the undead actually dragging Visarion out of the water were noticeably heftier than the usual run of skeletal undead.

[SeanC]

30 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

what does the Empire want? What does Darth Vader want?

OT:  To keep ruling the universe.  The Empire is, well, an empire.

[enoughcats]

Have we seen Sansa grow much after (what to me was her defining moment) walking down the garden path with Margery, and they are talking about life and Margery realizes that Sansa is a "dear, sweet girl"  who hasn't a clue about sex and how things work in the KL world?

We saw her being abused, but that is a physical loss of innocence without an accompanying mental leap as to how the games are played.