S01.E08: The Defenders

[kieyra]

30 minutes ago, pootlus said:

Another thing that bothered me, but it's not unique to the Defenders - why were all the scenes in the pit so damn dark? I was semi-tuned out because all I could see were a lot of bodies moving around.

I realise it's dark in real life, Mr/Ms Director, but that doesn't mean you can't give the impression of darkness without actually having everything too gloomy to make out.

Yes, yes, yes. I've had this problem since S1 of Daredevil. We have a reasonably good television (although my eyesight is admittedly crap), and I drifted off repeatedly during the dark fight scenes. Both the lighting and choppy editing were annoying. I miss Jessica throwing shit around in broad daylight on the street.

(I assume the dark lighting helps the fight choreography look more convincing, or something, but then they chop it up like the editor is on meth, so I end up surfing the web and looking up occasionally to see who's "winning".)

[Pogojoco]

Overall? Overall.

I don't mind Elektra but I do roll my eyes a little bit at Murdock trying to redeem her all the time. It'd be better if the unstoppable killing machine had his lover's face but none of her spirit and he had to deal with that. Also, as for Elektra's accent- that's Elodie Yung's accent. I watched interviews with her to make sure and that's pretty much her accent- French with a twist. 

Karen and Trish teaming up as investigative media people might be fun. Both are a little crazy. 

Jessica is my favourite. I like how she fights (like it's a big inconvenience) I'd like to see her training in her next season. I know she gets away with just brute strength but a little discipline might be good. The comments, the asides, the way she says "The Hand" is great. I also love that it's clear Luke Cage still loves her. 

I still wish Colleen was the Iron Fist- give her the backstory and the wealth. 

[AimingforYoko]

19 hours ago, wayne67 said:

When Misty got her arm chopped off I cheered because now she can get her upgrade

 

20 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

I was overly excited when Misty got her arm cut off since I thought the bionic arm was coming when her arm was injured in Luke Cage. 

Ah, comic book fans. We cheer maimings!

I liked the interactions and I like the setups for the characters going forward, but can we be done with The Hand now?

[penguinnj]

4 hours ago, Bec said:

Even if part of The Hand survived (probably did, they're like cockroaches), they're going to be missing a whole bunch of their wealth and power after this.

someone else will fill the void- my money is on Wilson Fisk.

[Capricasix]

I just remembered who Malcolm reminds me of - The Weeknd.

[2727]

13 hours ago, Ottis said:

I just hope the next plot isn't centered around the good guys being branded bad guys and spending half the show hiding from cops. That would be an incredible waste.

I don't watch any superhero entertainment except this series, so forgive me, but aren't people with super powers out in the open in this universe? Seems like a generally accepted fictional conceit that the police don't try to freaking arrest them every time they do something heroic-but-illegal. This time the city functionaries eventually swept everything under the rug, but the police rounding up the Defenders and Misty's arguments with her boss about them were tedious.

What was the point of showing Hogarth for 12 seconds and then never again? The waste of secondary characters was criminal. I would gladly have traded all the languid and carefully shot scenes of Alexandra's Daily Life (getting dressed, going to the doctor's, feeding pigeons, dining) for a single meaningful interaction between Matt and Claire.

I did like the show overall. Jessica stole it and I'm fine with that.

[VCRTracking]

So season 3 of Daredevil is taking a bit from the "Born Again" storyline with Matt meeting his mother the nun.

Jessica wasn't really necessary to the plot but added much needed snark and humor.

Even though I knew Matt was going to come back and even though they've been annoying me with how much a drag they were, I felt for Foggy and Karen when Matt was the only one who didn't come back.

Wish we had some meaningful scene between Matt and Claire but Claire's speech to Foggy about him made me happy.

[Ottis]

10 hours ago, penguinnj said:

someone else will fill the void- my money is on Wilson Fisk.

Yes, please. His approach, at least for half that season, of also making Hell's Kitchen a better place, but using very different methods than DD, was the best part of DD so far. It created complexity and a villain who you could at least understand. The Hand is ridiculous. I can't believe the actors don't laugh every time they say it.

I wondered if Sig Weaver's character was an attempt to marry the two - Fisk and The Hand - but it didn't work. I still don't know why she was in charge, or what the threat from her was. You could have deleted her character entirely and had Elektra kill Gao and it wouldn't have changed a thing.

8 hours ago, 2727 said:

I don't watch any superhero entertainment except this series, so forgive me, but aren't people with super powers out in the open in this universe? Seems like a generally accepted fictional conceit that the police don't try to freaking arrest them every time they do something heroic-but-illegal. This time the city functionaries eventually swept everything under the rug, but the police rounding up the Defenders and Misty's arguments with her boss about them were tedious.

I totally agree that having cops chase the good guys is tedious. I do see why they wouldn't quite trust them all, yet. They are still learning about these odd heroes, and bodies  (and buildings) drop when they are around. But it's got to stop. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, Ottis said:

Yes, please. His approach, at least for half that season, of also making Hell's Kitchen a better place, but using very different methods than DD, was the best part of DD so far. It created complexity and a villain who you could at least understand. The Hand is ridiculous. I can't believe the actors don't laugh every time they say it.

I wondered if Sig Weaver's character was an attempt to marry the two - Fisk and The Hand - but it didn't work. I still don't know why she was in charge, or what the threat from her was. You could have deleted her character entirely and had Elektra kill Gao and it wouldn't have changed a thing.

I totally agree that having cops chase the good guys is tedious. I do see why they wouldn't quite trust them all, yet. They are still learning about these odd heroes, and bodies  (and buildings) drop when they are around. But it's got to stop. 

It's utterly ridiculous having the cops go after them because the MCU of the movies is part of this MCU. In season one of Daredevil they referenced what happened in Avengers as "the Incident."

[VCRTracking]

3 hours ago, Ottis said:

I wondered if Sig Weaver's character was an attempt to marry the two - Fisk and The Hand - but it didn't work. I still don't know why she was in charge, or what the threat from her was. You could have deleted her character entirely and had Elektra kill Gao and it wouldn't have changed a thing.

Gao said Alexandra kept the other members invisible with her corporate dealings and allowed them to have influence in politics and business and various criminal organizations. It's how I fanwank the Hand were never on SHIELD's radar(hell they may have been allied with the HYDRA elements within).

Ultimately like the recent episode of Game of Thrones, the best parts of this series were the character interactions and not the plot.

[Chaos Theory]

Not bad for 8 episodes.  Major issue was focusing on Iron Fist the least interesting of the group.

Honestly I would have just preferred a second season of Jessica Jones.  My favorite of the group.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[Ottis]

2 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Gao said Alexandra kept the other members invisible with her corporate dealings and allowed them to have influence in politics and business and various criminal organizations. It's how I fanwank the Hand were never on SHIELD's radar(hell they may have been allied with the HYDRA elements within).

That's true, but also the other fingers seemed to view her as a leader they must obey (and she treated them as such). Maybe I inferred they feared her, when all she really had were connections. I kind of like the idea of her character basically being bored all day when she wasn't setting up meetings, because her whole role was to make connections and "look official." She didn't have any skills in particular. That would explain the long meals and musical interludes, at least.

[VCRTracking]

10 minutes ago, Ottis said:

She didn't have any skills in particular. That would explain the long meals and musical interludes, at least.

When Elektra was resurrected she fought against Alexandra and she was able to defend herself with ease.

[hincandenza]

On 8/20/2017 at 4:33 AM, millennium said:

Wow.   A dreadful ending to a dreary series.

THIS is how four individual series over what?  two or three years? culminated?

The hiphop soundtrack over the final fight jerked me right the hell out of it.   So mismatched, no cohesiveness between sight and sound, so disruptive as you're trying to follow what's going on and some guys are  yammering about Schwarzenegger ...

I also lost count as to how many times a character said, "You don't have to do this ..." in the last few episodes.

Unpopular opinion, I guess, but IMHO The Defenders royally sucks. .

I'm actually with you on this one.  I was already pretty grumbly over the most recent GoT (without spoilers, I'll just say with every passing hour since I watched it last night, S07E06 of GoT is probably one of the worst episodes in a long while).  To then finish up the last two episodes of The Defenders and find myself saying "What.  The fuck.  Was that?!" made for a shitty Sunday night of TV.  All those individual series, and building up to a piss-poor, written-the-night-before-it-was-due plot.  Nothing made much sense, nothing felt like it mattered, people never learned to work well together (and somehow 30 ninjas could maintain a wall of resistance for several minutes against JJ, LC, DD, and IF, because getting punched in the face by a guy who can bust through concrete walls doesn't cause instant permanent brain damage or death (Edit: quickly adding that I know there was the throwaway explanatory line about how LC in particular holds back, but my point still stands)), or my personal pet peeve, the characters who take more time to say "There's no time to explain!" than it would actually take to just explain things.

What a dreadful mess this was.  Moments were good, and that 3rd episode fight sequence with the Hand at Midland was pretty great and got me excited... but then it just became a slog of consequence-less fight sequences.  The first MCU show on Netflix, "Daredevil", earned my fandom because it was gritty, it was real, and it was earned.  Matt showed real, compounding damage from his fights, had realistic, tiring battles, and the stakes/machinations of the bad guys made clear, even sympathetic, sense.  With the second half of LC, all of IF, and really the Elektra-themed portions of DD S2, the MCU has gone off the rails.  

It's so... boring.  People wale on each other without a scratch, nothing is permanent, no one behaves in a way that makes any sense to the circumstances, and people avoid communication for no discernible reason.  As just one example, there was no reason- none- not to share with the NYPD what's going on with the Hand; we're way past "They target anyone who knows" territory, so just tell them and get help, coordination, and assistance!  And like with the IF season, there's never any adult notion of consequences: Danny Rand can play games with a major multi-billion dollar company that has changes of leadership every hour and no one ever cares; three rogue heroes can blow up a building and have huge battles, and are just wandering around unsupervised the precinct despite all the blustering the Captain had done earlier about the seriousness of the situation.  

It's like how middle school boys would write fanfic, without any understanding of emotional, moral, physical, or legal complexities of the real world.  What the fuck was that all about, then?  What, really, was that all the fuck about?

Edited August 21, 2017 by hincandenza

[VCRTracking]

Ultimately the character that benefitted the most from this in-universe and out was Iron Fist/Danny Rand. I like Danny when he's fanboying over the others more than the self-righteous, angst ridden rich kid.

[Chaos Theory]

The one thing I really did like about the entire series was one particular scene between Trish and Karen.  I think it was the last episode but it played out like these two women were deeply in love with two very dark and flawed individuals.  I loved how the conversation tap danced around how both these women felt about Jessica and Matt.  Although the love was different and one had given up on it to a certain extent.  I thought it played out nicely. 

Edited August 21, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[2727]

13 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

... the best parts of this series were the character interactions and not the plot.

Probably a UO, but that's why I liked the first 2-3 episodes that set up the characters and their friends. (Always friends, notably. Hardly a normal family member among them.)

It's not like I expected this to be a lighthearted romp, but The shitting Hand, of all things. I suppose the writers had pretty much painted themselves into a ninja corner if they wanted to showcase the skills of Matt, Danny, Colleen, and Stick. Ridiculous, spinny fights in hallways it is, then!

Favorite pairings:
Matt/Jessica
Luke/Jessica
Colleen/Claire
Several rungs lower
Luke/Danny

Least favorite:
Madame Gao/Alexandra (Gao turned into a toady)
Matt/Elektra (Matt turned into a simpering idiot)

Most lacking:
Matt/Claire

Edited August 22, 2017 by 2727

[AudienceofOne]

3 hours ago, hincandenza said:

What the fuck was that all about, then?  What, really, was that all the fuck about?

The importance of Occupational Health and Safety while mining dragons. As far as I can tell.

[ketose]

On 8/19/2017 at 3:18 AM, thuganomics85 said:

 I also will not be surprised if somehow both Elektra and Madam Gao survive.  In particular, the latter is pretty much the cockroach of The Hand and it will take more then a building to do her in!

So Gao is like the middle finger of The Hand.

So, if there's still immortality juice in that cave at the bottom of the building, shouldn't Danny have used his Iron Fist to reclose that thing? Apparently, dropping a building on it couldn't even kill a lawyer with some martial arts training.

[WatchrTina]

On August 20, 2017 at 5:07 PM, Pogojoco said:

Jessica is my favourite. I like how she fights (like it's a big inconvenience)

That characterization is perfect!

On August 20, 2017 at 5:07 PM, Pogojoco said:

I'd like to see her training in her next season. I know she gets away with just brute strength but a little discipline might be good.

I kind of like this idea but I don't know if it is in keeping with Jessica's character.  Still, it might be fun to see her turn up at Colleen's do-jo and go a few rounds with Danny.  But if I were writing it, she'd get fed up quickly (probably after dropping the kung fu moves and just tossing Danny against a wall) and leave in disgust.

 

My Review:

So . . . am I really the first person to mention how utterly tasteless it was to blow up a NYC office building, having it collapse into its own footprint in a manner that absolutely screams World Trade Center September 11, 2001?  I know the huge gaping hole under the building made it barely plausible that the debris of the above-ground structure could be collapsed and contained within the footprint of the building but come ON.  Even if the collapsing debris was contained underground and therefore didn't shoot out sideways and break every single window in the surrounding area like in 9/11, we all know what the dust cloud alone from a collapse like that would look like.  We've seen the footage.  We know what the neighborhood around it should look like (like a war zone, covered in dust and debris). I know this is a comic-book show but still -- the lack of reality in depicting the sheer destructiveness of such an event (one we're all too familiar with) really bothered me, as did the news media's blasé attitude about it.  I guess I can fan-wank that after the events of "the Incident," the collapse of a single "empty" high-rise in Hells Kitchen is 2nd page news but damn, that bothered me.  And to suggest that someone like Daredevil (who is not bulletproof like Luke Cage) could somehow survive that collapse, especially in light of the horrible death-toll on 9/11, well I found that in surprisingly bad taste too. I know we'll be given some supernatural (probably dragon-related) excuse for it but for now I had to register my dismay.

Can we talk plot holes?  The building is super-duper hermetically sealed so the cops can't find a way in.  Then how did The Defenders get in?  is that one door in the parking garage (the one Misty shot up to get in) the one door in the building without the super-duper access controls on it.  If so, why?

Why was the elevator at the top of the shaft when Luke, Jessica & Matt were ready to go down?  Shouldn't it have been at the bottom after having delivered all the Hand operatives who were there to mine "The Substance"?  Madam Gao made mention of the elevator and I got the impression she knew the Defenders were coming but if she sent the elevator up specifically to allow them to come down . . . why?  

Madam Gao also made it clear that excavating "The Substance" (which I've decided is dragon bone marrow) was going to cause a structural defect in the bedrock of NYC that was going to destroy the city.  How?  They managed to dig that big-ass chasm almost all the way to the skeleton without anyone noticing or it causing any problems  The "earthquake" was the result of Alexandra hurrying up the last portion of the dig.  If she'd had time, the whole dig could have been completed with no one noticing.  After pulling all those tons of rock out of the ground without incident how could the removal of a the skeleton of one giant reptile cause a problem?  You'd have to fan-wank that the skeleton was some kind of magical key to the stability of the earth's crust in that part of the world and that's one hell of a fan-wank.  (For that matter -- didn't Danny say the skeleton was that of the dragon he slew as part of this Iron Fist final exam?  If so how on earth did it end up in the ground under NYC and in that picked-clean-by-bugs-having-been-buried-for-centuries condition?)  I know, it's a comic book but for fuck's sake can't they make up a fantasy 'verse that has some internal logic to it?

I'm bitching a lot, I know.  Parts of the season were good.  I laughed and cheered a lot.  But I was really irritated by this episode -- probably because I so very much wanted to like it.  Nevertheless, (sigh) I'll be back.  I'm looking forward to a season of Jessica Jones that does NOT include a mind-fucking super-evil narcissist.  I love Jessica's snark but MAN that Kilgrave was hard to stomach.  And if Danny Rand shows up in that series and in Luke Cage season 2 I won't complain because I think his particular brand of naiveté can contrast nicely with her epic levels of snark and his take-no-mystical-bullshit approach to crime-fighting.  Also, while I don't think either Jessica or Luke is the kind of person who would accept a hand-out from Danny for their own personal support, I suspect there will be occasions in which they might appreciate having a friend who can throw some money and/or political influence at a problem.

Oh wait, that reminds me of another plot hole.  A big-ass building collapses right after a group of people (who fled police custody) are found there and who announce there is a bomb in the building.  And yet somehow there is no investigation of their role in the collapse.  I know Danny is rich and Foggy's law firm is good but come ON!

Okay I'm gonna end on a positive note.  That fake-out with the silhouetted figure on the building top -- the one I thought it was Matt but that turned out to be Danny -- that was GOOD.  Nicely played show.  And thank you for going ahead and showing us that Matt IS alive because there is no point in keeping it a secret when you know we're gonna hear about the production of Daredevil season 3 at Comic-Con.

Edited August 23, 2017 by WatchrTina

[ohjoy]

6 hours ago, 2727 said:

Most lacking:
Matt/Claire

This honestly was the most disappointing thing about this team up -- Claire's known Matt longer than she's known any of the rest of them. How did we get not one scene of them even acknowledging each other? I get that he was (at least initially) intent on keeping his dual identities separate, but that shouldn't have precluded Claire and Daredevil from talking to each other as if they were not complete strangers.

I've never been a huge fan of Karen, but that scene with Karen and Foggy waiting for Matt to walk in was heartbreaking. Also, I knew Matt had to be coming back somehow, but I was bummed to realize that I probably won't get more of him and Jessica in JJ S2 since I'm guessing she won't know he's alive. Luke/Danny were amusing too (although I've always like Jessica and Matt more -- and they were hilarious together), and the a few of the secondary characters' meetings were fun, if a little sparse. The character interactions are my favorite parts, so I'll be patiently waiting for more of team-ups.

[millennium]

On 8/20/2017 at 6:01 PM, Bec said:

I was kind of hoping Karen would be more pro-Daredevil. Back when she and Foggy didn't know who was behind the mask, Foggy thought Daredevil was bad, but Karen would argue that he's good. It would have been good to have more of that dynamic come back. Instead we got two people vying for the role of "nagging wife of the hero".

They were insufferable.   They added nothing to the story, except to make Matt seem like an inveterate alcoholic who kept falling off the wagon and disappointing them because he was saving lives in his free time instead of going out for a few rounds after work.   Disappointing that a girl as beautiful as Karen should turn out to be a shrew.

[Oscirus]

Definitely UO, but I'd rather have watched a series on the hand, because those cats were a unique bunch of characters with actors who pulled them off well. Add to that a cohesive storyline and I enjoyed their time onscreen alot.

[Taryn74]

Well, that happened.

I wanted to love this.  I wanted to love this so, so much.  And parts of it, I did.  Overall?  That's a big, solid meh, and I'm very sad about that.

This should have been a 13-ep season, IMO, with the extra time given to following the different heroes around and actually have them INTERACTING with the secondary characters we've (mostly) come to love.  I mean, Karen only showed up to harp on Matt for still being Daredevil, when we never saw any indication - ANY indication - she disapproved of Daredevil before.  Foggy wasn't much better.  Trish and Jessica had what, four or five scenes together?  And even less of Jessica and Malcolm?  Big friggin' waste of two fabulous characters, right there.  Claire wasn't the awesome character we came to love in DD and JJ, but rather the more boring incarnation of herself from LC and IF.  I've never felt the Colleen love so she was just kind of there.  Same with Misty.

So, the Hand is an ancient, powerful, global organization with leaders who have lived for centuries and watched entire civilizations rise and fall, and yet they were taken down in roughly a week's time by a handful of mooks who barely stopped arguing with each other long enough to fight them, whose predominant "superpower" was enhanced strength and slightly enhanced fighting ability?  Okay.

I could go on but honestly, it's not worth the energy.

[david gideon]

Amen to the complaints about intrusive funky music and fight scenes so dark and so choppily edited that I just gave up trying to figure out who was pounding on who. Whom. Series started slow, peaked half way thru, then slipped back to something above mediocrity but not outstanding. Agents of Shield's most recent season was more compelling overall.

[Ottis]

7 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Definitely UO, but I'd rather have watched a series on the hand, because those cats were a unique bunch of characters with actors who pulled them off well. Add to that a cohesive storyline and I enjoyed their time onscreen alot.

Ultima Online? Unexplained Orifice? Drawing a blank here. If the meaning is like YMMV (your mileage may vary), I would get it. Otherwise, and YMMV, I think The Hand was the weakest part of the entire season.  Basically a bunch of near immortal crime lords who were mining for a substance to keep them immortal. And some vague references to how either the mining, or their action, would cause NY to fall. Why exactly was unclear. And their overall purpose was to ... ensure their immortality? That's less of an inconvenience to your average New Yorker than a closed lane in the Lincoln Tunnel. And of course they were foiled by , well, I couldn't say it better than this post:

2 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

So, the Hand is an ancient, powerful, global organization with leaders who have lived for centuries and watched entire civilizations rise and fall, and yet they were taken down in roughly a week's time by a handful of mooks who barely stopped arguing with each other long enough to fight them, whose predominant "superpower" was enhanced strength and slightly enhanced fighting ability?  Okay.

Bringing together the team was the most enjoyable part for me, as well as the more realistic ways their lives/neighborhoods intersected. though it's hard to believe that they wouldn't already know more about each other (except maybe Danny) than they did. if they had been battling something worthwhile it might have pulled together nicely. Maybe next season.

5 minutes ago, david gideon said:

Amen to the complaints about intrusive funky music and fight scenes so dark and so choppily edited that I just gave up trying to figure out who was pounding on who

I actually didn't mind the music, but yeah, I never knew who was fighting who. And mostly I didn't care, as fight scenes are like car chases or zombie guts - part of the genre, but they impart virtually nothing. I mostly wait patiently for them to be over. The one exception was in the DD series, where the way he fights is tied directly to his will, a major character trait.  And in IF, the effortless way Danny fought was intriguing, but that was soon lost to "I AM THE IRON FIST."

Edited August 22, 2017 by Ottis

[OnceSane]

@Ottis, UO means "Unpopular Opinion".

[tennisgurl]

So, that was The Defenders, and, most of all, I wish it had been longer. Even if it wasn't the full 13 episodes like the other shows, I would have liked to have at least 10 episodes, to get more time with the characters and to set up the story more. It felt pretty rushed at the end, and the supporting characters weren't used as much as they should have (we hardly got any of Malcolm and Trish) and the Hand turned out to be a pretty generic Ninja bunch of bad guys, like they were in the second season of Daredevil. That being said, I still really liked the show, and I'm excited to see where it leads in this corner of the MCU. The most important thing it did was get the Defenders together, and that worked really well, so hopefully this means we get the whole gang showing up in each others shows and continue to team up.

You know, I like Elektra well enough (mainly because of the actress) but I will NEVER get Matts obsession with her, before or after she died. As I've said before, Elektra wasn't a very good person even before she died, and yeah maybe she had goodness in her, but I never really bought this massive connection she and Matt had. She understood his dark side and his desire to fight bad guys, unlike Foggy and Karen, and that's about it. He wanted to actually die with her? Matts self sacrificing tendencies have really gone off the deep end here, even if he technically did stay behind to save everyone, he really did it for Elektra, basically saying right away that he planned on dying down there. But, Matt didn't need Elektra to understand his desire to fight evil anymore, he has the defenders now! He can fight evil with his super friends, who understand and support his crime fighting, but without the murder tendencies that Elektra has, so just forget about her Matt! She isn't worth it! So now all his friends are all guilt ridden and heartbroken, because Matt cant get over his ex girlfriend. Danny might be the resident dumbass of the group, but at least Danny doesn't have the crazy ex girlfriend obsession.

I'm going to say that the show probably goes right in the middle for me, not as good as JJ and DD, but better than LC and IF, although I should say that I have never really disliked any of the MCU shows. They all had something to offer, so I'm excited to see where this all goes next.

One thing I really liked was the individual fighting styles of the characters, and how they worked together. Matt does lots of flips and fancy moves, Danny also has fancy moves but does less flipping and more punching, Luke tosses people around, and Jessica just smashes people like she wants them gone as soon as possible so she can get back to drinking. I think Jessica was my favorite character in the group, despite having the least to do. I'm also still hoping we go back to a Jessica/Luke pairing at some point. I like Claire/Luke just fine, but Luke/Jessica just have great chemistry, and they work super well together.

I would also be fine if the next seasons of Luke Cage and Iron Fist basically joined into one show, because Danny and Luke really shine together, and give their respective shows the lightness/gravitas that the other one needs. Also, I'm glad that Colleen got to do a lot this season, and that they are setting the seeds for Misty and Collen to team up. I felt like an asshole when Misty got her hand hacked off, and I was like "Yes! Bionic hand time yall!" Only comic books.

Edited August 22, 2017 by tennisgurl

[Taryn74]

15 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Jessica just smashes people like she wants them gone as soon as possible so she can get back to drinking.

Ha ha ha this may be my favorite description of Jessica ever.

 

15 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I'm going to say that the show probably goes right in the middle for me, not as good as JJ and DD, but better than LC and IF, although I should say that I have never really disliked any of the MCU shows.

Once I get over the letdown of the whole thing, I think this is where I'll rank it as well.  DD is by far my favorite, and I've rewatched it three times now.  JJ is a close second to that, but it's hard (for me) to rewatch because Kilgrave's control is so disturbing.  LC is okay, lots of interesting secondary characters but it's not an action-driven show at all and kind of feels out of place in the same universe with the others.  I don't really feel a need to rewatch it, like at all.  IF is....well, it's there.  The most interesting part of IF to me was Ward and his sister, although knowing what we know about Madame Gao now I'll probably go back and rewatch it just to see what I can pick up on regarding her.

 

59 minutes ago, Ottis said:

And some vague references to how either the mining, or their action, would cause NY to fall. Why exactly was unclear.

Hubby and I have concluded that the dragon bones are somehow literally the foundation of NYC, magically or otherwise, and so removing them and/or disturbing the place where they are located will physically cause the city to fall.  That's the only thing that even sort of makes sense, considering that the Hand doesn't really seem to care about NYC other than it happens to be on top of the place they need to get into.  Beyond that, yeah we got nothing.

[kieyra]

4 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

Hubby and I have concluded that the dragon bones are somehow literally the foundation of NYC, magically or otherwise, and so removing them and/or disturbing the place where they are located will physically cause the city to fall.  That's the only thing that even sort of makes sense, considering that the Hand doesn't really seem to care about NYC other than it happens to be on top of the place they need to get into.  Beyond that, yeah we got nothing.

And it's not like it would have taken them more than a few lines of exposition to make these things clearer. 

Maybe I watched too much Arrow (before I gave up), which usually explained exactly why/how 'this city' will soon be destroyed, even if the villain's motives are just 'because I'm hella evil'. 

Edited August 22, 2017 by kieyra

[backhometome]

Please let Elektra be dead. I cannot stand her anymore. 2 shows where she was the center. Im so over her.

[Resalyn]

So... no one here has mentioned the Punisher trailer at the end of the credits...

 

Are we not allowed to mention that in this thread?

 

On the episode, I  was glad the season ended on a high note (plot holes be damned!). Whether it all made sense or not, at least it was enjoyable. I don't think we got enough of Malcolm in this series, so I was glad to see him at Jessica's apartment at the end.  Like others said, I would not be surprised at all to see Gao return in the future (or more of the Hand), but I hope they will move on to a new big bad.  Also hoping for much less Elektra in the future. 

Edited August 23, 2017 by Resalyn

[Quark]

I liked it, but I was expecting more.

One thing that really bugged me (although I wouldn't know how this could have been rectified) is we never got to see the immediate aftermath of Matt telling Karen that he was Daredevil. I was also hoping that she would tell him that she killed one of Fisk's henchmen in Season One of Daredevil, resulting in the death of that nice reporter. Haven't liked Karen since and really think she needs comeuppance for that.

I was so sure that Alexandra was going to turn out to be Matt's Mother, but then I read all this Born Again stuff after I finished The Defenders. That last scene with all the nuns reminded me of the nuns in Season One of Daredevil he were also looking out for Matt (I think it was after his Dad died and Stick picked him up).

I loved Jessica Jones. Definitely my favourite character of the series. She just had the best lines. There isn't really anyone I particularly disliked besides Karen. 

As always, the fight scenes were brilliant.

[Oscirus]

17 hours ago, Ottis said:

If the meaning is like YMMV (your mileage may vary), I would get it. Otherwise, and YMMV, I think The Hand was the weakest part of the entire season.  Basically a bunch of near immortal crime lords who were mining for a substance to keep them immortal. And some vague references to how either the mining, or their action, would cause NY to fall. Why exactly was unclear. And their overall purpose was to ... ensure their immortality? That's less of an inconvenience to your average New Yorker than a closed lane in the Lincoln Tunnel. And of course they were foiled by , well, I couldn't say it better than this post:

Motive wise, yes. Character wise, no they're much more interesting then the four heroes imo.

[Oreo2234]

Quote

part of the problem is that it was never made clear what exactly were Electra/Black Sky's powers. Was she just good at  martial arts? Or did she have superhuman strength, agility, resilience, and speed? 

It was annoying that they didn't really explain what made the Black Skye so special. She seemed stronger and more resilient than a normal human but not powerful enough to justify using the last of the substance to resurrect her. 

Edited August 23, 2017 by Oreo2234

[ketose]

13 hours ago, Quark said:

I liked it, but I was expecting more.

One thing that really bugged me (although I wouldn't know how this could have been rectified) is we never got to see the immediate aftermath of Matt telling Karen that he was Daredevil. I was also hoping that she would tell him that she killed one of Fisk's henchmen in Season One of Daredevil, resulting in the death of that nice reporter. Haven't liked Karen since and really think she needs comeuppance for that.

I was so sure that Alexandra was going to turn out to be Matt's Mother, but then I read all this Born Again stuff after I finished The Defenders. That last scene with all the nuns reminded me of the nuns in Season One of Daredevil he were also looking out for Matt (I think it was after his Dad died and Stick picked him up).

I loved Jessica Jones. Definitely my favourite character of the series. She just had the best lines. There isn't really anyone I particularly disliked besides Karen. 

As always, the fight scenes were brilliant.

From what I read about "Born Again," Karen has a lot more to worry about than just killing a guy.

[clack]

So much was left unclear.

1) Why was the Black Sky so important?

2) How or why exactly was NYC in danger of collapsing?

3) How did the architect find out about the secret nature and plans of the Hand?

4) Why were the Hand hiring random street kids as murder scene clean-up, when the Hand were apparently fully staffed with trained and loyal minions?

[Loandbehold]

1 hour ago, clack said:

4) Why were the Hand hiring random street kids as murder scene clean-up, when the Hand were apparently fully staffed with trained and loyal minions?

You don't hire trained snipers to clean trash from the side of the road. As for the first three questions, I don't know. B/c a wizard?

[MrWhyt]

2 hours ago, clack said:

4) Why were the Hand hiring random street kids as murder scene clean-up, when the Hand were apparently fully staffed with trained and loyal minions?

street kids are disposable. Why use highly trained operatives to take out the trash and then lose all that skill when you eliminate them?

[clack]

11 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

street kids are disposable. Why use highly trained operatives to take out the trash and then lose all that skill when you eliminate them?

Why would you need to eliminate highly trained and presumably loyal operatives employed as a cleanup crew? Following that logic, wouldn't you then have to kill the hit men who killed the cleanup crew, then kill the hit men who killed the first team of hit men, and so on until you are left with no minions?

No, the only reason that street kids were employed to dispose of bodies was that was the laziest way that the writers could get Luke Cage involved in the fight against the Hand, even though it made no rational sense.

[MrWhyt]

5 minutes ago, clack said:

Why would you need to eliminate highly trained and presumably loyal operatives employed as a cleanup crew?

the best way for 2 people to keep a secret is if one of them is dead.

 

Quote

No, the only reason that street kids were employed to dispose of bodies was that was the laziest way that the writers could get Luke Cage involved in the fight against the Hand, even though it made no rational sense

because street kids are never used by criminal organizations?

[Chicago Redshirt]

The thing is, the Hand is supposed to be this uber-powerful, uber-rich, uber-broad organization that has been around for at least 150 or so years. (Jessica found evidence of various shell companies going back to the 1860s and was told words to the effect of "Oh, that's all you found?" and Alexandra acted as though she knew Brahms personally).

Why would such an organization use street kids to do the dirty work, pay them wads of cash and then eliminate them, when they have undoubtedly lots of minions who could do such dirty work? Like you wouldn't expect Tony Soprano to outsource cleanup of his crew's murders to some random kids. Members of his crew are supposed to take care of their own stuff. And the Hand is supposed to make the Mafia look like a Cub Scout troop.

There are potential reasons Sowande might have done...perhaps this was the first step to recruiting them to become actual members of the Hand, for instance. (We saw in Iron Fist that Bakuto liked to take poor kids and funnel them to become part of the Hand through his dojo.) 

[tennisgurl]

I don't care whos show its in, or what the context of the scene is, but I need a scene when Jessica gets to hear Danny refer to Jeri Hogarth as "J Money".

Edited August 24, 2017 by tennisgurl

[Kel Varnsen]

So what happened to the elevator car? Jessica dropped it but they then cut to the bottom of the pit and it never landed. Was it teleported to kun lun or something? 

On 2017-8-19 at 4:04 AM, Oscirus said:

Highlights included the sister of the dragons taking on Coleen's old mentor, complete with Misty getting a bionic arm in the near future,

I have never read a comic with Misty Night but she better get a bucky arm or a regrown human arm a la Age of Ultron. Becauae if not the lack of technological consistency between movies and shows will bug me even more.

On 2017-8-20 at 1:05 PM, bettername2come said:

I'm realizing The Hand is what made me rank Iron Fist and Daredevil season 2 as my least favorites. If Defenders gets a second season, I'd prefer evil scientists/mutates.

I like ninjas, but Luke Cage is really a ninja proof character.  Neither swords nor fists hurt him. He should just grapple with ninjas rather than fist fighting.  Although the thing where Danny's punches couldn't move him but Hand goons knocked him back bugged me. 

On 2017-8-23 at 11:14 AM, Oreo2234 said:

It was annoying that they didn't really explain what made the Black Skye so special. She seemed stronger and more resilient than a normal human but not powerful enough to justify using the last of the substance to resurrect her. 

Wasn't The Black Sky first supposed to be that little kid that Stick killed? That would have made this a much crazier season. 

[marcee]

The camera movements made me crazy. These weird spinning, move around the person you're watching, but when you come back around again, they've moved to a different place kind of shots. I was getting so dizzy. It was completely distracting. I had no idea if there was something the director wanted me to see in a particular scene, or if they were just being annoyingly artsy. I mean, I get the "dark" complaints, but damn - at least those scenes didn't give you vertigo.

 

I enjoyed this series; I agree with most that Iron Fist was the weakest of them all - but I feel like he wasn't nearly as annoying in this series. I actually grew to like him.

 

Plus, there were A LOT of excellent, laugh out loud, moments. The one that sticks out for me right now is, "Nice ears." "They're horns."

Edited August 25, 2017 by marcee

[blueray]

I finally got to finish the show. I have to say I love the build up and the banter between Jessica, Matt and Luke (sorry Danny but it was better without him). I love the scene where they all admit they none of them are ready to fight. I loved that Colleen finally got to kill that guy. And I like the side scenes with Karen talking to Trish.  And the fight scenes were good, a little dark to see what was going on.

Then the last 15 minutes or so happened. I knew right away that Matt can't be dead, as they already said there will be a third season. So the whole time they were showing the other characters, I kept thinking come on just show Matt already, as I know that you are going to end on that. Then they finally did but by then it seemed kind of anti-climatic. I think that Matt, Electra and Madam gao all made it out. I feel like Matt and Electra were already in a tunnel that wasn't there when the architect made the plan to blow it up therefore wouldn't get hit by the building. I guess next season of Daredevil well deal with who ever took him (and possibly Electra). Then I feel like Madam Gao would find someway to survive that.  I did feel bad for Foggy and Karen when he didn't come in the room. And was glad when it was revealed that he just missing, and not a fake funeral or anything. Then obviously the authorities will finish going through the building and not find his remains but many others.

Overall I enjoyed it more then both Iron Fist and Luke Cage. I feel like it had a slightly slow beginning but picked up as the show went on. Mainly when they were finally a team. And the finally was a good episode overall.  I'm looking forward the the new seasons of the shows (mainly Daredevil) and I hope they cross paths again in them.

Edited August 25, 2017 by blueray

[GHScorpiosRule]

7 minutes ago, blueray said:

And was glad when it was reviled that he just missing, and not a fake funeral or anything. 

I think you mean "revealed?"

[blueray]

Quote

The hiphop soundtrack over the final fight jerked me right the hell out of it.   So mismatched, no cohesiveness between sight and sound, so disruptive as you're trying to follow what's going on and some guys are  yammering about Schwarzenegger

I hated that music  but I hate hiphop. It also took me out of the fight.

6 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I think you mean "revealed?"

yes I do

[ketose]

Another general criticism is the overuse of color to identify the characters. Obviously, Daredevil is about red. It's his costume and it's what Matt "sees." But there's really nothing that mandates Luke Cage has to be bathed in yellow light. Danny has a yellow fist and somehow everything is green for him. 

[moonshine71]

21 hours ago, ketose said:

Another general criticism is the overuse of color to identify the characters. Obviously, Daredevil is about red. It's his costume and it's what Matt "sees." But there's really nothing that mandates Luke Cage has to be bathed in yellow light. Danny has a yellow fist and somehow everything is green for him. 

That's a nod to the traditional colours of their costumes.