S13.E11: Week 10: The Final Rose / S13.E12: After the Final Rose

[truthaboutluv]

10 hours ago, SallyAlbright said:

Interesting - Rachel told Bryan that she was in love with him during the Fantasy Suite date.

Right around 1:40: 

 

This is actually a really good interview and I think Rachel articulated her feelings well but it won't matter. I know the Peter fans want to believe Rachel is oh so salty because of some lingering feelings for Peter but I really think she's annoyed at the social media hate coming her and Bryan's way and the complete deification and adulation of Peter. I'm sure she was well aware of it while the season was airing because I've been saying all season, social media was essentially - Peter walks on water and Bryan is the worse human being in the world.

So I think she's frustrated that in her mind this guy strung her along, was never into her, brought up all the insecurities she had about relationships, made her feel not good enough, then passive aggressively shaded her fiance on social media all season long who by the way did not reciprocate and people online are acting like she's the bad guy and the awful person. The way she said, "the man told me I would have a mediocre life" sounded like clear exasperation and like she was close to adding, "and people think I'm the bad guy here. Seriously?" 

But again, it doesn't matter. For most of these viewers, Peter can do no wrong. At this point, her best hope is that he does become the next Bachelor. Because it's only then that the fall from the pedestal viewers put a contestant on, happens. Hell, it's happening right now with her. 

 

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The rest of this post just angers me, so I'll not go over it. I love Peter!

Umm, see my comment above. Wow.
 

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Really interesting -- Eric is quite candid and said he felt bad for Bryan after watching the episode as Bryan felt like a rebound or the backup choice. I listened to the podcast and he said that it was pretty clear to the guys in Geneva that Bryan was the front runner because he got the watch. Eric was not quite pleased with that favoritism but said Peter was more meh. However, after the visits to the hometowns, Eric suspects Rachel started to give Peter more consideration because her family's choice leaned more towards Peter. Eric said he was taken aback after seeing the final episode and the after rose event and said if he was in Bryan's shoes, he would feel second best.

It's interesting to me because Eric is obviously basing his opinion on the edit that was presented and I would think having been in the situation, he would know how much is not shown and how things aren't always exactly as they seem in the episode. I know many are latching onto this to validate all the, "she settled for Bryan" but in my opinion, I think it is more telling that he does say and other guys from the season have said it as well that most of the men were certain Bryan was the front runner. So I don't buy this, "she just settled for Bryan" thing. If she was so madly in love with Peter and really chasing him all season, so many of these guys would not have been certain of her wanting and possibly choosing Bryan. And the watch, which we all know was quite the bone of contention, was telling. Rachel wanted Peter so badly, Peter was showing how hesitant he was to trust the process and fully take the leap with her and her way to convince him that "yeah it's you" is to gift another man a matching his and hers watch? I said it all season and I stand by it and Rachel herself admitted it.

I don't think this was a season where the lead zeroed in on her Final 1 from night one like many others have. I do think she was legitimately torn between Peter and Bryan but I think Peter represented the mistake she always made. She kept him around because he was every guy that was an emotional challenge for her that she was drawn to. But unlike other leads like Desiree for example who likely would have made the wrong choice had Brooks, unlike Peter, not willingly bowed out, Rachel realized where this was going and made a different and better choice for herself. People will mock and drag and call Bryan second choice but whatever. Different season, same crap. All they can do is keep living their lives. If they break up like many others, then people can gloat and crow about how right they were. And if they last like Desiree and Chris have, then that will speak for itself. 

 

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This thread makes me laugh. I watched every single episode (well, except MTA) and I never saw any great "love" between Rachel and Peter.

Seriously. I said it from their first one on one that I never believed Peter was that into Rachel. Liked her well enough, sure. Attracted to her, sure. But truly in love with her and couldn't imagine his life without her, no. And his dramatic performance at the ATFR didn't sell me on it then either. Rachel meanwhile saw Peter as a challenge the more hot and cold he was with her because as she herself admitted, she'd always felt that if relationships weren't dramatic, then maybe it wasn't real. So she kept trying to force something out of him that was never really there. The whole thing become plain exhausting and tedious to watch by the end.

And while some insist Rachel's pulling a revisionist history now that the season is over regarding Peter and her choosing Bryan, I feel like some are doing the same with all the declarations of she just settled for Bryan and it was always Peter. Sure it was - when she practically swallowed Bryan's face twice on the first night, a mere hours after meeting him, gave him the FIR, spent enough of the season wrapped up in him that most of the men knew he was the front runner, gifted him with matching his and hers watches, was asking him if his family would accept her, etc. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[JudyObscure]

37 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Sure it was - when she practically swallowed Bryan's face twice on the first night, a mere hours after meeting him, gave him the FIR,

Yes!  Trust the First Impression Rose -- Shawn, Catherine, Jordan, and now Bryan.  It's not fool proof but if you're trying to pick one out of 26 on the first night, it is awesome odds.  It also shows how important physical attraction is. It's almost sad.  We saw handsome men with law degrees passed over for that chemistry bomb and Kaitlyn actually said it was Shawn's smell that won her over that first night.  Why even try?

[Chick2Chic]

Rachel is still salty and playing a bad PR game of "living her best life." If Bryan wants to win over people who shade him, he could actually try. What's he done so far? Or is it just Rachel telling people her truth as I've seen comments about her revising her "I knew he was the one" story in interviews. Or is it just more of "mean, bad Peter fans are cruel to Bryan for no reason" complaints? This is not grade school. Bryan is not helpless with no voice or support system (I mean, hello, his mother is his number 1 fan). Personally, I still have no lock on his personality because aside from effusive platitudes and lots of kissing as his edit, I can't recall anything else about him. So for all those who enjoy jumping on Peter, at least there's a personality there to pick apart if that happens to be their joy in life to do so. But IMO running down Peter to point out his flaws doesn't lift Bryan up. That's on Bryan to lift himself up and change people's minds. If he's that great then he needs to step his PR game up and SHOW his doubters why he's the best man for Rachel and the better man than Peter. 

Also, it likely didn't help those who think Bryan is smarmy seeing him hawking merchandise based on his relationship with Rachel the morning after the final rose ceremony played out.

[tessat]

I haven't watched this show in years but was impressed with Rachael and decided to give it a go. I liked Rachel at first but as the show progressed and we saw people leaving - who I felt had a better connection with her but weren't given a chance due to how production mucked things up - I quit watching.

I don't think Peter was the public's favorite - that was definitely Dean and he got the shaft big time. I liked Peter but couldn't see him with her - maybe because I have a son who is also an introvert and is old fashion when it comes to relationships. Although I did fall in love with my husband and got engaged after 3 months - it doesn't happen often - especially when you have 20+ other contestants vying for her attention and production crew following your every move. 

I do feel Peter had feelings for her - but like my son could not honestly propose after a courtship that was only weeks long, shard with 20 other guys and comprised of a couple of dates where they were never alone with each other - to see the other person as they really are. I feel bad for Bryan - who I wasn't a fan off - only because I see him without Rachel a few months down the road and probably being a contestant on Bachelor in Paradise in another year.

Of all the guys she had to choose from - I loved Kenny and liked Will and Anthony - whereas Kenny couldn't give her the Princess experience monetarily - which I think Rachel craves - the other 2 would have. My vote is for Kenny for the next Bachelor.

[comosedice]

3 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

Rachel is still salty and playing a bad PR game of "living her best life." If Bryan wants to win over people who shade him, he could actually try. What's he done so far? Or is it just Rachel telling people her truth as I've seen comments about her revising her "I knew he was the one" story in interviews. Or is it just more of "mean, bad Peter fans are cruel to Bryan for no reason" complaints? This is not grade school. Bryan is not helpless with no voice or support system (I mean, hello, his mother is his number 1 fan). Personally, I still have no lock on his personality because aside from effusive platitudes and lots of kissing as his edit, I can't recall anything else about him. So for all those who enjoy jumping on Peter, at least there's a personality there to pick apart if that happens to be their joy in life to do so. But IMO running down Peter to point out his flaws doesn't lift Bryan up. That's on Bryan to lift himself up and change people's minds. If he's that great then he needs to step his PR game up and SHOW his doubters why he's the best man for Rachel and the better man than Peter. 

Also, it likely didn't help those who think Bryan is smarmy seeing him hawking merchandise based on his relationship with Rachel the morning after the final rose ceremony played out.

So much truth here but I don't need Bryan to try and win me over. That kind of calculated move would actually make me dislike him even more. Don't you just love the claim of Peter "stringing" Rachel along. How did he manage to do that when as they say she was all about Bryan from the start and most importantly had the power to send Peter home when he unwaveringly stated his views on proposing? I think the root of a lot of the hate directed at Peter is his popularity. He didn't do a damn thing to Rachel but be honest.

[TheFinalRose]

10 minutes ago, pickle said:

However, the final episode was a real curve ball where she pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed for a proposal from Peter; there's no other way to spin what happened. It's a really strange thing to do if you are not into the guy and was in love with someone else

Hi. I rewatched the Peter-Rachel showdown last night and it's worth watching a second time. During their initial conversation, she starts out saying, "Let's talk about the rose ceremony." They get through that conversation on the couch with only a few tears trickling down Rachel's face, and she is actually pretty composed. Peter is the one who says, "then I wish you the best," essentially ending everything. She gets up, puts her coat on, walks to the door pretty dry-eyed. 

Their parting at the door is more emotional, but the actual conversation on the couch is a little more measured and thoughtful. I didn't necessarily see her as pushing and pulling for an engagement, rather trying to make some logical, linear sense out of Peter's waffling.

[truthaboutluv]

41 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

If Bryan wants to win over people who shade him, he could actually try.

How else can really do that other than just living his life, which is essentially all he did while the season was airing and continuing to do right now? I've seen a number of Rachel and Bryan's interviews from yesterday and I see a guy who seems very calm, laid back and really, really into his fiance. I am actually pleasantly surprised that he seems more or less exactly how he was on the show. Rachel herself has said it repeatedly - during the season when she could only talk about him as "my fiance" and now - that she's very high energy, can yes, get really not chill when upset, etc. and Bryan grounds her and keeps her sane because he's just so calm and confident and laid back. 

 

41 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

If he's that great then he needs to step his PR game up and SHOW his doubters why he's the best man for Rachel and the better man than Peter. 

I'm sorry but I find this laughable. There isn't a damn freaking thing that Bryan can do to convince anyone that thinks Peter is the greatest man to have ever walked the earth that he, Bryan, isn't the most awful person and second choice. And that he has to prove himself to a bunch of salty ass viewers online who saw some hours of edited footage and got all in their feelings about the season is ridiculous. People will always think what they want and feel what they want regarding this show.

It's why to this day JoJo still gets "Team Luke" comments on her social media when she posts about her and Jordan or all the "Team Raven" comments on Nick and Vanessa's social media every time they post something about their relationship. Like I said above, only two things will happen here. Those two will break up like many other couples before and after and people will gloat and crow that they were right. Or, they'll defy the odds and last and people will move on to other couples and other seasons. 

IMO, the only thing Bryan needs to do is take the advice Vanessa said Nick gave her regarding social media because there's a person from this franchise who knows social media and Bachelor Nation hate well. Basically she said Nick said to her to never engage and just remember that these people don't know her, don't know her family or her heart and who she really is. Bryan seemed by all accounts to have a great life before this show and again he seems very happy with his fiance so that's the only thing he has to be concerned about in my opinion. Not appeasing a bunch of "too much time on their hands" online haters.

 

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Their parting at the door is more emotional, but the actual conversation on the couch is a little more measured and thoughtful. I didn't necessarily see her as pushing and pulling for an engagement, rather trying to make some logical, linear sense out of Peter's waffling.

Thank you for mentioning this. I've seen so many comments about Rachel's revisionism because if she was going to pick Bryan, why was she pushing so hard for a proposal from Peter. But when I watched that scene and based on what she said happened that we didn't see, I don't believe she was pushing Peter to propose but rather trying again to handle the confusion Peter was creating. Rachel said she went to Peter's room knowing she would end it because she was picking Bryan and things were essentially done with Peter. And Peter at that point had been adamant about not proposing. 

Then suddenly, likely when he saw the conversation was heading in the direction of her ending it, it became, "if I have to make the sacrifice and propose I will to not lose you". And what I saw from the conversation at that point was a lot of Rachel essentially saying to not propose to her just because he figured it was the way to keep her but that she wanted someone to do it because they wanted to. And that seemed to be the bulk of the conversation - Peter saying "I do love you and I want to spend my life with you but I'm not ready to propose to you but will if I have to" and essentially calling it a sacrifice. And Rachel essentially saying that "if you love me and want to spend your life with me then it shouldn't be a sacrifice to propose to me". 

And yes, people will harp on, "but why did that even matter if she was picking Bryan" but again, I think it's because as she's said one, she did care about Peter and have feelings for him and two, she was trying to understand him and what he was saying. And that's why she kept using the word frustrating about the situation with Peter and said it was a lot of emotional push and pull and even like manipulation on one level. That he gave enough to keep her interested and confusing her emotions but then was still pulling back. YMMV I see why some may be black and white with the situation but for me, since like I said I do think Rachel at points was torn between Bryan and Peter, the whole thing makes sense to me. I think Rachel realized that she and Peter was just a dysfunctional mess waiting to happen and she chose the man that she did love and where the relationship wasn't complicated. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Chick2Chic]

14 minutes ago, comosedice said:

Don't you just love the claim of Peter "stringing" Rachel along. How did he manage to do that when as they say she was all about Bryan from the start and most importantly had the power to send Peter home when he unwaveringly stated his views on proposing? I think the root of a lot of the hate directed at Peter is his popularity. He didn't do a damn thing to Rachel but be honest.

Yes. And it's a lot like what Pickle stated that if Rachel knew Bryan was her choice - though the problem here is that the when she knew keeps changing in interviews - then why was she so insistent that Peter propose? He told her how he felt about proposing after such a short time and if she was really all about Bryan from the beginning, then it makes no sense that she was so stubborn that Peter needed to bend the knee and show her a ring. Has that actually been asked in interviews why if she knew Bryan was the one why she was so insistent Peter propose too? I don't see how she was a victim of his if he kept telling her that he wasn't there to propose. That Rachel couldn't change Peter's mind on that isn't him stringing her along, especially not when she also had the option to cut him loose. 

I saw Peter was on GMA this morning but I was busy getting ready for work and didn't watch the interview. 

31 minutes ago, pickle said:

Found his take interesting especially since he was on the show. He also said something else of interest -- he saw the argument in the hotel room as a control issue between Rachel and Peter where both were wrestling for control. He also felt that Rachel went with her head instead of her heart.

Yes, IA. Eric's opinion is very interesting and informative to me because of the fact that he was on the show and made it to the final three so he obviously has a good take based on things we also were not shown that he lived through.

[truthaboutluv]

2 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

though the problem here is that the when she knew keeps changing in interviews

Rachel has never said she knew Bryan was the one from the start and has been consistent in when she knew Bryan was it for her. She has consistently said she first realized how much she loved him when she was defending him to her family and essentially called him her best friend and even surprised herself when she said it. In terms of when she knew that she was picking him without question, she has said it was around F3/F2 and that she went to Peter's room after their LCD, essentially to end things with him. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[thehepburn]

11 hours ago, SallyAlbright said:

Interesting - Rachel told Bryan that she was in love with him during the Fantasy Suite date.

Right around 1:40: 

Rachel sounds like a member of that craycray Bachette forum with her 'Peter was manipulating me' narrative. This from the lead on a specious manipulative show that is all about manipulation. Bitch crazy.

I prefer the addendum to this video which had the host commenting on this interview about what was really going on in this interview.

Edited August 9, 2017 by thehepburn

[Madding crowd]

i actually don't hate or dislike anyone here. Rachel and Bryan fit together and may make it as a couple. I will also always believe she was in love with Peter and would have chosen him if he wanted to propose. I don't believe a woman gets that emotional that they are sobbing and gets that frosty/angry upon seeing the ex unless feelings are still there. I have nothing against Bryan except I don't know a thing about his personality. And it makes sense to me that the two main rivals for Rachel's heart are not going to like each other. Not everyone is built to feel nothing about the woman they love kissing and sleeping with someone else. And before we continue to hate on Peter for his mediocre comment, Bryan's sloppy seconds comment and she won't be happy unless she picks me are exactly the same. 

If Rachel was 100% in love with Bryan and had zero feelings for Peter, she could have walked him out with a hug the way she did Eric. There was no need to go to his hotel room for a last ditch attempt at getting him to propose, if she did not want him. There was also no need for the crying, the kissing, the uncertainty about moving too fast. I like Rachel and I am not faulting her for being human. But I think that saying Peter is a despicable human being for not wanting to propose , is ridiculous especially since the same people who hate him for not proposing are the same people saying she is madly in love with Bryan and had no interest in Peter proposing. If she had no interest in Peter, he did nothing wrong by not proposing. If she did have interest in Peter (which I am sure she did), he did nothing wrong by stating he was in love with her, didn't want to lose her and wanted a relationship with her. No one every should be forced into something, tv show or not.

Lastly, I am tired of hearing about high school quotes. You should have seen my son's high school yearbook. The quotes were everything from: I want to marry Bruno Mars, to I want to win the world record for eating flaming hot cheetos to I am an alien. None of it is meant to be a prescription for lifelong life goals or attitudes. I would be very happy if Peter is the next bachelor since I like his personality. I think reality TV makes people think only over the type extroverts are acceptable personalities when the world is full of people who are different. 

[GracieK]

Rachel never had any problem being direct and keeping things short and sweet with anyone else she was cutting loose. There is no need to interpret what happened with Peter because we all saw what happened with our own eyes.  She was a sobbing mess who had a hard time walking away because she was conflicted between the two and wanted Peter to be all in back. She cried her damn eyelashes off ffs ?

[truthaboutluv]

39 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

If Rachel was 100% in love with Bryan and had zero feelings for Peter,

 

Just now, pickle said:

that is a confusing picture if we are to take her "Bryan was my first choice all along" PR at face value.

Except she's not and has never said either of these things. Are people even watching or reading what Rachel has said since the season finale? Rachel has never said Bryan was her first choice throughout the season. In fact she's said multiple times that she was torn and went back and forth especially in the early weeks where she questioned Bryan because he seemed too perfect. And she has most definitely never said she had no feelings for Peter. I don't know, it's like some insist Rachel is trying to change the narrative and instead I feel like some are the ones parsing stuff to fit the narrative they want.

Edited August 9, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV podcast on the episode!

 

Rachel's Getting Married (Except Not Really Because Come On, That's Never Going To Happen)!

Rachel picks Bryan, as we always knew she would, and is blissfully "happy" about it.

[Madding crowd]

9 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

 

Except she's not and has never said either of these things. Are people even watching or reading what Rachel has said since the season finale? Rachel has never said Bryan was her first choice throughout the season. In fact she's said multiple times that she was torn and went back and forth especially in the early weeks where she questioned Bryan because he seemed too perfect. And she has most definitely never said she had no feelings for Peter. I don't know, it's like some insist Rachel is trying to change the narrative and instead I feel like some are the ones parsing stuff to fit the narrative they want.

I am not talking about the early weeks, I am talking about the finale and the comments made here that are saying: Rachel knew it was Bryan and no interest in Peter proposing and conversely Peter is an awful person for not proposing. 

[Mooncake76]

57 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

But I think that saying Peter is a despicable human being for not wanting to propose , is ridiculous especially since the same people who hate him for not proposing are the same people saying she is madly in love with Bryan and had no interest in Peter proposing. If she had no interest in Peter, he did nothing wrong by not proposing. If she did have interest in Peter (which I am sure she did), he did nothing wrong by stating he was in love with her, didn't want to lose her and wanted a relationship with her. No one every should be forced into something, tv show or not.

 

I agree mostly with you - I don't hate or dislike anyone either.  What I don't like, is the feeling I got that Peter was never that into Rachel, but he stayed around to get a shot at being The Bachelor.  I don't think he's despicable for not wanting to propose because I don't think he should have.  Cuz he wasn't that into her!  But I would respect him more if he had left earlier when he knew he was never going to develop strong enough feelings for Rachel to propose.    

I value Eric's input because he always came across as pretty perceptive as to what was going on.  I can definitely see his take on Rachel becoming more torn after the home town visits when her family seemed to prefer Peter.  Even though she defended Bryan to them, it probably has to play on her mind a bit because these are people whose opinions she respects.  

[Chick2Chic]

24 minutes ago, pickle said:

she was really pushing very strong for him to propose and that is a confusing picture if we are to take her "Bryan was my first choice all along" PR at face value. The only way it maybe might have worked is if she had displayed the same attitude and behavior she did when meeting with Eric during the after rose event in her segment with Peter and if she was being a good sport about Peter in her interviews. Given that she is a lawyer, I was expecting her to respond from the head and spin a "I am happy with Bryan and I wish Peter the best" kind of responses. She may not convince everyone but at least some would have felt her happiness with Bryan or just accepted that she made her choice and has moved on. Instead, all that anger, vindictiveness and defensiveness is a confusing read even for casual viewers like me who just tuned in out of boredom. Either she is not over Peter or she is insecure because she herself is not sure of the choice she made. So much defensiveness and seething anger is a heart reaction and so whatever went on with Peter wasn't minor to her. Sometimes, graciousness goes a long way in silencing some detractors.

Yes, this. I think some of her less than gracious commentary in these ATFR interviews has certainly raised some eyebrows. Raised mine.  It also created more questions, the strongest one for me being if Rachel knew it was Bryan all along then why did she work so hard to get Peter to propose to her if she wasn't going to accept? Something in the milk ain't clean.

While I may have some theories rolling around in my head, if she'd gone the route of "I am happy with Bryan and I wish Peter the best" commentary, I wouldn't think anything of it and it would look a lot less revisionist than some of the answers she's given in interviews since Monday night. TBH, that kind of bland response is what I expected of Rachel and not what we've actually gotten, which has been at times petty and bitter.

I am very much enjoying Eric's commentary on the finale, though. 

12 minutes ago, Mooncake76 said:

But I would respect him more if he had left earlier when he knew he was never going to develop strong enough feelings for Rachel to propose.    

I can't fault Peter for that solely because he told her his feelings about proposing. He didn't hide it. She knew yet she kept him there. Rachel could've cut him at any time but chose not to in spite of knowing he wasn't going to propose. While Peter's true feelings for Rachel are a matter of opinion, the situation about him not proposing wasn't a secret.  

[tessat]

2 minutes ago, Mooncake76 said:

I agree mostly with you - I don't hate or dislike anyone either.  What I don't like, is the feeling I got that Peter was never that into Rachel, but he stayed around to get a shot at being The Bachelor.  I don't think he's despicable for not wanting to propose because I don't think he should have.  Cuz he wasn't that into her!  But I would respect him more if he had left earlier when he knew he was never going to develop strong enough feelings for Rachel to propose.    

I value Eric's input because he always came across as pretty perceptive as to what was going on.  I can definitely see his take on Rachel becoming more torn after the home town visits when her family seemed to prefer Peter.  Even though she defended Bryan to them, it probably has to play on her mind a bit because these are people whose opinions she respects.  

This is the problem - that's what people are assuming - he wanted to be the next Bachelor and wasn't that into her. We are judging Peter due to how he was portrayed on TV. This is Reality TV - where Reality is bogus and everything is edited.  I give Peter kudos for being honest - really folks how well do you get to know that person in a matter of weeks. The fact that they all know she's been kanoodling with many of the others would be a big problem for me and may have been a part of Peter's problem with the relationship. How many of us really could go on that show - fall for a guy and not have reservations about what he was doing with everyone else in the house. 

Just as some want to wait until marriage to make love - Peter didn't want to propose until he felt they were both ready for it. The couple will have weeks of glitz and glamour - only after the drama dies down will they be able to find out what they need to know to see if this is lasting - and most don't. I wish them luck but my feelings of Rachel have changed on how she's handling this whole thing after the fact. She sounded like a prissy spoiled princess last night with that comment. Sort of like you hurt me so now I'll hurt you. It was uncalled and she lowers herself in my eyes.

[hnygrl]

I've been thinking about this whole thing (Bryan vs Peter vs Rachel and her tears, anger, out of place vitriol) and the cynic in me raised her hand and requested to have a word.

I think the Powers that be, aka Fleiss, wanted THIS. THIS is what they wanted. THIS. EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET is talking about it!!! ALL OVER THE DAMN WORLD!!!! EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE on EVERY channel, newspapers, magazines, podcasts, webcasts, YouTube channels, panels panels and MORE panels.

The franchise is getting more publicity in this short 48 hour period than it's gotten in 20 years of existence. People didn't talk about Des and Chris and Brooks because NOBODY CARED and nobody WATCHED but the faithful few.

Today, everybody watches. People have huge watch parties. CELEBRITIES watch. A-LISTERS WATCH and POST about it!

THIS IS WHAT THEY WANTED. The all consuming attention and publicity that this messy breakup and proposal brings.

Now they'll stay together for a year or more just to piss us off (and to get the gigantic paycheck they were promised if they do!!!!) and show is "see! SEE! SEEEEEE!!!! WE'RE THE REAL DEAL BITCHES!!!" When in reality she wants to be a sports announcer and so does he. And she's getting work as a sports announcer already.

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. And guaranteed to have us suckers sucked in for years to come.

Cause you KNOW. Y'all KNOW.

Peter's gonna be Bachelor. 

Respect Fleiss....*fist to the sky, head bowed*....Respect

[Mooncake76]

4 minutes ago, tessat said:

This is the problem - that's what people are assuming - he wanted to be the next Bachelor and wasn't that into her. We are judging Peter due to how he was portrayed on TV. This is Reality TV - where Reality is bogus and everything is edited.  I give Peter kudos for being honest - really folks how well do you get to know that person in a matter of weeks. The fact that they all know she's been kanoodling with many of the others would be a big problem for me and may have been a part of Peter's problem with the relationship. How many of us really could go on that show - fall for a guy and not have reservations about what he was doing with everyone else in the house. 

Just as some want to wait until marriage to make love - Peter didn't want to propose until he felt they were both ready for it. The couple will have weeks of glitz and glamour - only after the drama dies down will they be able to find out what they need to know to see if this is lasting - and most don't. I wish them luck but my feelings of Rachel have changed on how she's handling this whole thing after the fact. She sounded like a prissy spoiled princess last night with that comment. Sort of like you hurt me so now I'll hurt you. It was uncalled and she lowers herself in my eyes.

I would never want to marry someone after knowing them for a few weeks either.  But I'm not signing up to be on a show where that is an outcome that is expected and encouraged.  

[HeyThere83]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

i actually don't hate or dislike anyone here. Rachel and Bryan fit together and may make it as a couple. I will also always believe she was in love with Peter and would have chosen him if he wanted to propose. I don't believe a woman gets that emotional that they are sobbing and gets that frosty/angry upon seeing the ex unless feelings are still there. I have nothing against Bryan except I don't know a thing about his personality. And it makes sense to me that the two main rivals for Rachel's heart are not going to like each other. Not everyone is built to feel nothing about the woman they love kissing and sleeping with someone else. And before we continue to hate on Peter for his mediocre comment, Bryan's sloppy seconds comment and she won't be happy unless she picks me are exactly the same. 

If Rachel was 100% in love with Bryan and had zero feelings for Peter, she could have walked him out with a hug the way she did Eric. There was no need to go to his hotel room for a last ditch attempt at getting him to propose, if she did not want him. There was also no need for the crying, the kissing, the uncertainty about moving too fast. I like Rachel and I am not faulting her for being human. But I think that saying Peter is a despicable human being for not wanting to propose , is ridiculous especially since the same people who hate him for not proposing are the same people saying she is madly in love with Bryan and had no interest in Peter proposing. If she had no interest in Peter, he did nothing wrong by not proposing. If she did have interest in Peter (which I am sure she did), he did nothing wrong by stating he was in love with her, didn't want to lose her and wanted a relationship with her. No one every should be forced into something, tv show or not.

Lastly, I am tired of hearing about high school quotes. You should have seen my son's high school yearbook. The quotes were everything from: I want to marry Bruno Mars, to I want to win the world record for eating flaming hot cheetos to I am an alien. None of it is meant to be a prescription for lifelong life goals or attitudes. I would be very happy if Peter is the next bachelor since I like his personality. I think reality TV makes people think only over the type extroverts are acceptable personalities when the world is full of people who are different. 

It gets real interesting sometimes discussing this because when we are talking about proposals and lengths of time and not being into someone......this was done over the course of....was it six weeks? So I think comparisons to men not proposing and stringing women along are hard to equate (for me, anyway). And sometimes men are with a woman and know she is the one, but still hold off on proposing because they think it's too soon even if they already know. In Rachel's case she had waited 5 years with a previous boyfriend. That's a huge difference. But Peter did tell her he wanted to keep what they had going off the show. What would have happened if she agreed to that? That would have made things harder for him to become the Bachelor if that's what he has wanted all along, I would think.

 

Anyway, I guess I should point out that I love Rachel. I could listen to her speak all day.

Just so there are no generalizations being made because that tends to happen.

[Madding crowd]

But Rachel is the lead here not Peter. She may have signed up for a show to find a husband but the guys are just potential husbands. And getting married is a choice that affects your entire life-no show can make someone do it. And if Rachel is so in love with Bryan than it shouldn't matter that the other 29 guys didn't propose. 

[tessat]

Agreed most people go on these shows for exposure - whether it be Survivor, Big Brother, The Bachelor - you make money for doing nothing all the while you become famous on social media - because of your looks, your oddities ect - and hopefully gain from it once you're off the show - only once in a while - I think people have a change of conscious. They actually fall for someone or become vested in a relationship - we've seen that happen on all the shows mentioned.

[ClareWalks]

Potentially Unpopular Opinion: I HATE that ring. I hate most Neil Lane rings (I prefer a classic solitaire to a "let's throw a billion tiny diamonds around the main stone so it looks bigger" approach), but I hate pear-shaped diamonds so, so much. Just throwing this post out there and seeing if anyone agrees, LOL.

[dleighg]

2 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Potentially Unpopular Opinion: I HATE that ring. I hate most Neil Lane rings (I prefer a classic solitaire to a "let's throw a billion tiny diamonds around the main stone so it looks bigger" approach), but I hate pear-shaped diamonds so, so much. Just throwing this post out there and seeing if anyone agrees, LOL.

I skipped the finale but found the ring. Yeah, it doesn't do much for me. Particularly sticking little diamonds *UNDER* the main stone. Like really below it. What a waste.

http://people.com/style/bachelorette-rachel-lindsay-engagement-ring-bryan-abasolo/

[nlkm9]

Im trying really hard (because I loved Rachel!!) to picture Bryan watching this episode and seeing his fiance making out with and freaking out over another man, to the point where she was 

almost begging him more time, more kisses, more commitment...I would be sooo hurt. I know there is a storyline to play and yes Ben told 2 women he loved them and apparently his fiance never got over it. I do like bryan and rachel together because they just sparkle (although he looks like such a bad kisser), I think Bryan is in it for the long run but wow Im not sure how he will get over seeing that. I see it being part of their future fights:)

It will be brought up for years, sort of like Josh and Andi,lol. Even Desi and chris wasn't this bad, and of course we all saw Desi BEGGING sean to keep her on his season.

Edited August 9, 2017 by nlkm9
correction

[kira28]

My initial reaction is I really liked Rachel in the beginning but I no longer like her. I agree with Peter that she was attacking him. I really liked Peter and it didn't hurt that he's so easy on the eyes. That breakup was intense. There were strong feelings there and Rachel. Was practically begging him to propose.. If she didn't want to be with him and wanted Brian the entire time why was she so upset over Peter not wanting to get engaged?  Peter must have been pretty damn good in bed because Rachel did not want him to leave and tried very hard to change his mind. If she was so certain about Brian it would have been a casual goodbye as with Eric. Either production paid her a bonus if both men propose lol or she really did want Peter. And after meeting Bryan's mother I would not blame her. 

I think she had a lot of anger at Peter and I can't figure out why. She seemed bitter. If you are so happy with Brian  you would be nothing but kind to the runner up. She reminded me of Andi. 

I think what turned me off of liking Rachel is she's a, huge hypocrite. She wanted someone to be 100% certain and propose but the day before she accepts a proposal from Brian she's crying her eyes out and begging Peter to propose and passionately kissing him and telling him she loves him. So you love another man the very day before you accept a proposal from a, different man. Peter was very realistic about his feelings and I applaud him for that. Rachael's dig about this type of show was not for him was an obvious ploy to point out he shouldn't be the bachelor

I think she has a cruel vindictive side. I think Peter had more genuine feelings than Brian does. 

[tessat]

I do think Bryan loves her. From articles I've read - previous girlfriends say he's a really nice guy - but I do think it looks like she accepted his proposal just because she wanted to have someone at the end want and need her. I hope it works out for them if that is what they both want but I don't see a happy ending. Rachel seems to be playing to the media but when all things quiet down - just like many previous relationships that have formed from the Bachelor/ Bachelorette series - I see Bryan left with a broken heart - or maybe he's playing the game too for what they'll both get out of it.

[Enero]

I haven't watched The Bachelorette since the very first season with Trista, and plan to go back and watch this one because for one Rachel is the first AA bachelorette and she seems like a wonderful young woman.

That said, I did watch these final two episodes and thought the chemistry between her and Peter was off. the. charts. Whew. If their chemistry in person was anything like the chemistry I saw onscreen, I can see why she struggled to put that relationship out to pasture. 

Bryan is probably a great guy, but from the little I saw of him, he came off fake.  Also, I just didn't see the spark with him that I saw she had with Peter. 

Regarding the breakup scene, that was painful to watch. I can see why some viewed that scene as her begging for a proposal, but I saw it as her trying to understand why, if Peter saw her as his future he could not propose.  From the little I saw of their interactions I think the potential for something special might've been there, but neither wanted to take the risk. She didn't wanted to take the risk and date him until he was ready to propose and he wasn't ready to propose before he was ready.

After watching her interactions with Peter, Bryan does seem to be the rebound guy, but in the end it won't matter, because like most relationships that start on this show they likely won't last. 

I wish her the best though. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Enero

[SnapeCharmer]

12 hours ago, WhoInvitedHer said:

I can't believe you're the first person to ask about this.  I have to assume since the poster just dropped it there with no further explanation that they are simply trolling. Lee, is that you?

I couldn't agree more. I think he completely led her on, knowing that the farther he got the better his chances for Bachelor were. As she mentioned, she did have doubts about him before but she wanted it to be him so badly and he was giving her just enough to make her believe he might get there. I could see him start pumping the brakes hard in Geneva, probably hoping that she would get the hint and send him home soon. But without the benefit of social media - which tells us clearly that he's been angling for the Bachelor gig since high school - she confused his fear of her dashing those chances by picking him for a sincere hesitancy about rushing into it, when that wouldn't make a big difference if he were genuinely in love with her. If you sign up for this show, you know that the end game is a proposal. If you aren't in love with the lead enough to go through those motions, it's on you to leave. He did neither, still professing to be in love with her at the end. It's no wonder she was hurt and confused. It was clear too, as she alluded to, that she did ask him (probably more than once) to leave if he wasn't feeling it. He did not.

Rachel was being a bit petty, but considering this was the first time she was watching this back, and seeing Peter after becoming conscious of just how much he was playing her, it is easily understandable to me; I've totally been there, when you think you have a handle on the situation and then one comment brings back all the pain and anger. She was probably also angry that he wasted so much of her time and attention that could have been spent on getting to know some of the other guys better who had a genuine interest in her. I actually clapped when she started sabotaging his chances at Bachelor. She knew exactly what she was doing, and so did he. He fully deserved it.

I am sure that Peter will be the next Bachelor anyway, because people just seem to be blinded by his good looks even though he has the personality of a cardboard box. He's so dour and mumble-mouthed he makes Nick Viall look like a sparkling bon vivant. But who else is there? Dean doesn't want it, and sadly I don't think they will choose one of the black men. I'd like Eric to get it, or Kenny if he promised to keep the mentions of his daughter to a minimum of once per episode, but I just don't think they'll go there. Maybe Will has a shot? I really think it's time for this franchise to stop selecting the leads from the contestant pool. Between hoping to be the next Bach/ette and/or going on Bachelor in Paradise, nobody is in this to win it anymore. The second place prize is better than the first place prize. 

I do feel bad for Bryan. Even though he's a smarmy cheeseball, I do think he has genuine affection for Rachel and is interested at least in dating her, if not marrying her right away. Seeing how clearly she hoped for it to be Peter must hurt. And if there was more evidence that it was Bryan anyway at that point, I wish we'd seen it. I doubt they'll work out but I hope to pleasantly surprised. 

I agree with a great deal of what you wrote.

I think looking back on the DeMario confrontation, there is a clear connection to why Rachel was so upset with Peter during the Live Show. After she came back to the locker room to talk to the guys, she stated that she was not there to be played or made a fool of and that she felt sick that she'd sent guys home (in favor of keeping DeMario and others). I think that was a real moment, and who could blame her? I believe her reaction at the Live Show was about feeling played, feeling used, feeling like she was made a fool of and in some ways feeling a bit guilty that there were men who truly were there for her, that she sent home in favor of this connection she thought she had with Peter.  But it wasn't real. Let's be honest, he played with her emotions a great deal. During the LCD, she's crying in her confessional and she pretty much lays out what's troubling her with him:

"It is frustrating. It's messing with me, all the future talk. It's like I'm forcing something to happen and you just don't want me in that way. That's how I feel about Peter. But then I get confused when you start telling me how we're gonna spend our lives together. And Peter isn't somebody who just says something to be saying it. So I'm just so confused as to how you can see forever with me, but you can't do the step you have to, to get to forever. I don't get it."

When she later says it was a constant push and pull, that was very accurate. Classic emotional manipulation. His words of love, were just that. words. There was no sincerity to back them up. This tactic was also used during the live show. Slumped over backstage before he came to address Rachel, CH and the audience somber eyed and contrite. "I tried to reach out to Rachel...I feel attacked...blah blah..." But low and behold, a day later he shows up on GMA heart mended, bright eyed and singing a different tune. Now suddenly, Rachel did the right thing not choosing him. However during the show he said the complete opposite. Post-show through surrogates he has insisted the opposite. During the show , Bryan's not sincere, blah blah. But the most telling thing about his GMA appearance? He now open to becoming The next Bachelor. He says, he's going to think on it.

How interesting indeed.

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

Potentially Unpopular Opinion: I HATE that ring. I hate most Neil Lane rings (I prefer a classic solitaire to a "let's throw a billion tiny diamonds around the main stone so it looks bigger" approach), but I hate pear-shaped diamonds so, so much. Just throwing this post out there and seeing if anyone agrees, LOL.

My question is why does Neil Lane and everyone call that type, "pear shaped?'  I heard Rachel say she knew she wanted a "tear drop,"  and I think that describes it so much better.  All I know is my butt is pear shaped and it looks nothing like that ring.

[dleighg]

9 minutes ago, Enero said:

That said, I did watch these final two episodes and thought the chemistry between her and Peter was off. the. charts. Whew. If their chemistry in person was anything like the chemistry I saw onscreen, I can see why she struggled to put that relationship out to pasture. 

 

Maybe I'm naive, but I think all this angst about her "giving up" Peter is a little premature. I mean, it's not as if she's getting married in 1880 and shipping off to the Australia outback with Bryan. I imagine she can look him up on Facebook if she decides she made the wrong decision a month, or six, from now. 

[Kendra143]

Slightly off topic but it annoys me that Bryan calls himself a chiropractic "physician."  Physicians by definition can prescribe medication and can train to do surgery. Chiropractors cannot. Ever. Stop trying to elevate your station. 

[TiredMe]

It's interesting to me how much hoopla this finale caused. I'm a straight up wrong reasons viewer here so I honestly couldn't less if any of them ever get married and feel the same about them coming on to promote the brand. I watch for the pure entertainment value to escape from the often depressing world we live in. So if they can give me a good looking bachelor, disengenuous or not, I am in.  Who am I kidding? Ben Flapjack was hideous and I still tuned in. Lol

bring on Peter the Bachelor!

[saber5055]

So Judy, are you saying your butt does or does not have a billion tiny diamonds around the "main" one?

[bantering]

19 hours ago, backformore said:

(about Peter)

I don't think we can assume that Peter went into it NOT wanting to get engaged.  He probably bought into the "process"  as much as anyone does.  But when it came down to the wire, he could not commit to marriage with Rachel.   It doesn't mean he didn't  feel love, it doesn't mean he couldn't propose to another woman.  It means simply, that during the process of falling for a woman who was also dating other guys, he was not ready to make that commitment.  

You can't decide when you first go on the show that you WILL propose at the end.  He was being true to himself, and wasn't 100% sure he wanted to marry Rachel.  

I do think that Rachel was being unfair to push him so hard for a proposal.   Did she need TWO proposals?  was she then going to look over both rings, and decide who to marry based on which RING was better?    

 

I thought she was doing what other women on this show have done -- see which man was more likely to want to take the same path as her. I suppose I didn't think her method was any different from what I've seen previously on this show. By the end of this kind of series, the contestant usually seems in love with two people and tries to see where each guy is at, and as in an arranged marriage, chooses the man who is least likely to pull a Jon Hamm on them. 

I do think it's quite possible she went with a second-choice, based on what others have said here, and looks-wise I see why more people are attracted to Peter. However,  I also don't necessarily think Rachel's mindset is much different from what happens in real life. Sometimes in real life the woman would prefer to marry the person willing to marry and take the domestic path with them rather than take a gamble on a man who is less sure of the path he'd like to ultimately take in life. 

The whole premise of The Bachelor is ridiculous to begin with. That's why I see what goes on on this show as similar to an arranged marriage, except with more lust and physical interaction involved, all of which is embarrassingly televised.  I know people claim "love" is involved, but the timeline is so short, I view the relationships on this show as more in line with an arrangement where two people sort of like each other and decide that they'll take a gamble. It's the rare case where I think true love at the end of the two months is involved. I think lust can happen, but I'm not sure about love as it would evolve in real-life where you don't have producers whispering in your ear.

Edited August 9, 2017 by bantering

[catrice2]

Well, I am glad I missed the last few episodes, but thank you and other media means for letting me know what happened.  Not sure why people were surprised by Rachel's supposed attitude on the final show.  Her mask had slipped a few times that made me aware that she was capable of being nasty and petty with the best of us.  For someone who reported that she was "new" to social media, she sure learned fast.  Instead of the "turn the other cheek" that we who are as rooted in church she said she was, learn she started being petty and responding to stupid comments.  I want a man who can defend himself, not one I need to stick up for.  Even with the former contestant issue, if she thought she said something inappropriate, be an adult and reach out to her in some other way.....but no, you want to pander to the social media trolls and increase your likes.  I also refused to be offended for someone who was not even offended for herself.  She was fine with Dean's comment and with keeping around Waboom and Blake... and Bryan's sloppy seconds comment....but other people are never to be forgiven?  Who knows what offends her and what doesn't?  Maybe sloppy seconds also showed "confidence." 

Part of the reason I did not enjoy this season, among many, was that I did not buy into Rachel's story, or believe that she needed this show for love, thus she was here for "the wrong reasons."  I didn't see the maturity everyone else saw, but I had nothing to compare it to.. I also got tired of  her touting that she was representing minorities as if she is the Rosa Parks of reality shows and making a difference in the community by appearing on a silly dating show. I was sick of seeing her whine about how "hard" this was on her because she was a Black woman...you took the job, so do it or go. Yeah, let's not show Verla, Verna, or whomever talk about ERIC, let's talk about Rachel!!!

The same people who complain about Peter not proposing when he "knows it was expected," are the same people defending Rachel when she also knew what would come with making a fool of yourself on national television, so why the boo hoos?  Whoever called Oprah Rachel was on the nail, since she is "living her best life." 

 Unfortunately because of that all season people have almost been afraid to criticize Rachel in any way for fear of being called prejudice , even when she CONSTANTLY contradicts the things that she says.   If she knew Bryan was the one and he had the first hometown date, then wasn't she cruel to Dean and even Eric? If Bryan  was the "one" since she kept saying the producers couldn't "make her do anything" and she was "keeping it 100" etc. why didn't she just "make it a season of firsts" and tell them that she had already made her choice?   I laugh so hard at people who keep saying Peter should have removed himself...no Rachel should have sent him home.  Honestly if the boards are to be believed in most seasons the contestants know who is going to win, so how many of them "removed themselves?'   Why would he give up the chance for free travel, especially when these people don't get paid for being away from home?  As my dad used to say, no on "plays" you unless you stay in the game.  So, was Bryan the one when she told her family she thought he was a douchebag?  Hmm.   She has even said she was "torn" but all of a sudden she always knew.   People come on this show with motives, Rachel herself acknowledged that at the start. Do we really think if things had gone a different way Bryan would not have tried to be the Bachelor?  Most of these people come on here hoping for that or a boost to their visibility to hawk something or get other opportunities.   None of the people this year are any different, including the lead. 

No, Rachel seemed all to pleased to give up her integrity for a few trips, some designer clothes and fake eyelashes in bulk.  I was most offended by the fact that she agreed to wear those lashes and those terrible weaves on national television.  I mean, you are a lawyer, negotiate a decent hair stylist and makeup artist. What happened to "We are different. I just want to be a wife and practice law at my great company who has stood by me?"  As soon as she came back it was suddenly "I'm open to opportunity" and we may consider LA, not to mention the whispers I am hearing about ads already on her Instagram page, as well as "Jerome's."  Not once did Rachel mention a close friend or someone real from her life, and who did she take Bryan to meet? Everything for her has been about this fake world she has inhabited  with her new besties and living the "fairytale."  For someone who touts 100, she really came across as fake to me, and I am not talking about the lashes.  

How funny, at first it was "eric is a great guy and if he liked Bryan he must be great." Now that Eric has said a few things people are jumping off that wagon and he has "ulterior" motives.  I have heard of ONE ex girlfriend that dated him for less than 5 months say he was a 'great guy," and do we think she was not just trying to get in the news?  Can we hear from the one that had words with mama?   Along with "well Josiah likes him."  Josiah...the guy Rachel said was fake? The same guy that defends Bryan by saying he was so focused he used to "practice" what he was going to say to Rachel constantly?  I don't know, I typically don't practice for my interactions with people, but everyone is different.  Besides, these people all want their moment in the spotlight.  Sure they want to be friends with the winner, so they can continue to be relevant and on social media. Possibly even get an invite to the televised wedding or some extra tickets to an event.  Mama Abasolo is not going to be a problem, she is happy her son has a chance to hob nob with celebrities and be on television..he's certainly wanted it bad enough. With "all that being said, none of these men are invested in the Peter/Bryan feud. They all knew they didn't have a chance and are just trying to use this to their advantage. They will hang out with them and continue to be fake friends. 

I never thought from recaps and Youtube that Nick was ever into Rachel, nor she into him.  Her hypocrisy with Peter not "revealing his emotions," when she did the same thing on NIck's season is hysterical.  Also her being pissed at Peter's Bachelor aspirations from HIGH SCHOOL, but brushing aside a 20 something year old  being on a dirt bag reality show.  Why judge one more harshly than the other?  How funny is it that she managed to have a worse aftershow than Nick and Vanessa? 

I actually think Rachel and Bryan are a great pair, and I never saw her with Peter.  He is too bland for her, and he was not trying to change. Once I finally saw the first episode and i(n addition to showing black men just "having a party" in the mansion )I saw Bryan approach her with "girl, you in trouble," I was done.  He never would have said that to a non white Bachelorette, and he just seemed too eager to prove he was "down."  My Hispanic friend said he gave Rachel something with Spanish words misspelled, and that he is pronouncing words incorrectly. Bryan's Spanish and ethnic roots probably come out when they are convenient for him. 

If Rachel wants to be mad at someone, she needs to be mad at production with the way they edited her to look a certain way, and loaded her season with buffoonery. Drama I can take, but the cartoon stereotypes (even Bryan the hot latin lover) were just too much. I really think she made someone at ABC mad and they showed her who has the power.  But she will NEVER do that because she does not want to diminish her opportunities with the franchise. She has shown she is willing to play the game, so she will keep talking up Chris Harrison, the process and her "Bachelor Family."  I hear at one point on Monday her Instagram numbers went DOWN....probably when people felt like they saw the real Rachel.  If her plan as to derail Peter's chances, all she succeeded in doing is increasing them, a huge backfire.  If he was childishly "shading" (lord I hate that word)  Bryan, why didn't Rosa/Oprah take the high road r let Jerome fight his own battles?   I could see Peter's GMA comments above being true, after being on stage with her (if all these comments are to be believed)  and seeing her disdain he got closure and moved on.....and counted his blessings. Smart to start looking at his future, and Eric is too. He also said he is"open" to be the Bachelor, knew Bryan would win and did not remove himself, so why is he not a bad person?   We all say stupid things in petty arguments....the bigger person accepts the apology and makes the other person feel smaller. 

I do not feel sorry for Peter, Bryan or anyone else who was on the show, but I am not going to say one is worse than the other.  They all agreed to come on, they all came on with goals, and kudos to them for achieving them. 

I wish Rachel luck with the new career (no way she is not gunning for something) and both of them with hawking on social media ...because you know, they are "different."  Someone please let Bryan know that we are not interested in pictures of his body and no matter how much he works out he will never compete with some of the men that were on this season....just put it away.  

I can only imagine what type of things they are going to start leaking about Peter in an attempt to boost the support for their "first interracial couple."

It was so fun hanging out with most of you....this board is much better than the show.  Rachel did not make me a Bachelor franchise believer, and I doubt even shirtless Peter could.   It will probably take me as long to watch the final episodes as it took me to watch the first one. Sounds as if I will be just as disappointed.  

Edited August 10, 2017 by catrice2
Add Sentence

[nutty1]

10 hours ago, TheFinalRose said:

Hi. I rewatched the Peter-Rachel showdown last night and it's worth watching a second time. During their initial conversation, she starts out saying, "Let's talk about the rose ceremony." They get through that conversation on the couch with only a few tears trickling down Rachel's face, and she is actually pretty composed. Peter is the one who says, "then I wish you the best," essentially ending everything. She gets up, puts her coat on, walks to the door pretty dry-eyed. 

Their parting at the door is more emotional, but the actual conversation on the couch is a little more measured and thoughtful. I didn't necessarily see her as pushing and pulling for an engagement, rather trying to make some logical, linear sense out of Peter's waffling.

My question is when did the eyelashes fall off? They were on when she put on her coat and off in the hallway.  How much crying went on in between?!

[Enero]

5 minutes ago, nutty1 said:

My question is when did the eyelashes fall off? They were on when she put on her coat and off in the hallway.  How much crying went on in between?!

They cut some scenes. I noticed this when I was watching the break up scene. She leaves the hotel room with lashes on and fully in tack. Then cut and the next scene lashes are off, makeup gone and she's balling like her heart has just been ripped from her chest and telling Peter she's not ready to let go. So...something went down (hell many things went down) off camera that we did not see.

 

1 hour ago, bantering said:

The whole premise of The Bachelor is ridiculous to begin with. That's why I see what goes on on this show as similar to an arranged marriage, except with more lust and physical interaction involved, all of which is embarrassingly televised.  I know people claim "love" is involved, but the timeline is so short, I view the relationships on this show as more in line with an arrangement where two people sort of like each other and decide that they'll take a gamble. It's the rare case where I think true love at the end of the two months is involved. I think lust can happen, but I'm not sure about love as it would evolve in real-life where you don't have producers whispering in your ear.

I completely agree with this. When you think about the process, how the dates are packed into 6 weeks and that she starts off dating 30 guys at one time, only get two seconds with each and each scene is likely filmed numerous times to get the right affect, really how can anyone truly fall in love? How can what we're seeing be truly real?  I definitely think sparks can fly in this short amount of time and bring with them the potential for something special to grow, but everlasting love in 6 weeks when whomever is not exclusively focused on one person. I don't think so.

[bantering]

I want to know why Peter refused or felt he shouldn't have to pick the eyelashes off the floor. Chris really should have asked a follow-up question.

Edited August 10, 2017 by bantering

[Wandering Snark]

The show is the way it is as not many people would tune in to "Which of these 30 men will our Bachelorette kind of like enough to at the end claim she wants to maybe get to know a producer selected one of them better in the real world?"

[Stinamaia]

I read all of this while I was out of town and was a bit shocked at the different takes on the Rachel/Peter conversation.  I don't watch the show intently.  I play candy crush, look at twitter, read a news story, etc.  I determined to watch it on the DVR to tr to determine what went on.  

Peter comes out. Rachel sits straight to the front leaning slightly away from him.

Peter says, I'm shaking like a leaf. I'm terrified.

Rachel looks at Peter, closes her eyes as she looks slightly away and raises her face toward the ceiling as her eyes open and a slight smile appears or her face and then becomes a wider smile as she turns back to Peter with a definite twinkle in her eye, and shifts herself away from him as she asks, do you mind if I say something? Now I took this as a "I can't even believe what you are saying moment."  It seemed as if she was almost laughing at that setatement.  

Then she started on the you said you would leave and it was confusing conversation and Peter responded with the usual just that one thing missing

Rachel looks as if she is listening sympatheticaly as Peter explains how he was feeling.

Rachel explains she had bee through this with someone else.

rachel continues to appear to be sympathetic as she listens to the get out of his head speech

then she says he's sincere and genuine but the show, the process not for him. Peter does not show much on his face as she says this.

Chris brings up the happiness vs. ring statement. Peter says that was a mistake made out of emotion and I apologize for what I said about (lowers his eyes and head throws up his hand) obviously I just saw it for the first time. I don't even remember saying it in the heat of the moment,but saying that not being with me would be settling for a life of mediocrity. I don't believe that. Rachel smiles and wideneds her eyes. Peter:  I did say that. I'm so sorry (looking at Rachel.

Rachel: Yeah I'm not leading a mediocre life. I'm living my best life. And executes a wrist flip and turns a bit away.  This was a bit sassy and dismissive. This is where I first saw the flash of anger in Peter's eyes  to commercial.  Rachel claps w/o joy Peter bites his lip.

Chris say you seemed upset.  Rachel does the frustration speech

Peter now explaining why he feels frustrated  "I was just crying backstage, and I feel attacked in the way that you responded to that, and it sucks because I didn't want it to end in the way that it did or hurt you or waste your time or get to the point we got to - gives helpless gesture with his hands.

Why do you feel attacked. I was just talking about what happened. I haven't attacked you. I'm just talking about what we both just saw.  I'm talking about how hard it was. It was frustrating (Peter says it was very frustrating) Why do. you feel attacked? That's a strong word.  Peter: It is a strong word  Rachel: So, why do you feel that way? 

Peter looks up, bites his lip, looks a Rachel: I can't speak to it at this point. 

Rachel sort of sighs, looks at Chris  (she might be feeling frustrated)

Peter goes on about having feelings for Rachel and not wanting to to change anything  he did that night (insult excepted) and eyelashes inexplicably being on the floor for two days.

Rachel says the stuff about push and pull and not knowing what he wanted, but Peter is sure that he does know what he wanted but needed more time with her. Rachel comes back with a polite version of you continue to do you cause that's great, but this is why I think all of this is just not for you. Peter compresses his lips. 

more blah blah blah

Peter not looking happy as it goes to break.

i think Peter will do better with all the women pursuing him.  He strikes me as a withholder who makes people come to him and try to get him to express himself which he may or may not do.  I don't know why he couldn't say why he felt attacked.  I don't know why he felt attacked. If he was crying back stage he showed no signs of it in his eyes.  

Rachel wasn't being particularly lawyery with him.  I'm sure her confidence in speaking and her comfort with direct speaking comes her training, but believe me she was holding back a great deal.  She asked him open ended questions, which is not at all what I do when being lawyery.  Now I do think she is smarter and more articulate than Peter and that gives her an advantage.  His advantage is that he will avoid being pinned down at all costs. Game set match.

I don't know if Bryan is the right one for Rachel.  If he isn't, I hope she pulls the plug quickly.  

[SnapeCharmer]

10 minutes ago, Stinamaia said:

I read all of this while I was out of town and was a bit shocked at the different takes on the Rachel/Peter conversation.  I don't watch the show intently.  I play candy crush, look at twitter, read a news story, etc.  I determined to watch it on the DVR to tr to determine what went on.  

Peter comes out. Rachel sits straight to the front leaning slightly away from him.

Peter says, I'm shaking like a leaf. I'm terrified.

Rachel looks at Peter, closes her eyes as she looks slightly away and raises her face toward the ceiling as her eyes open and a slight smile appears or her face and then becomes a wider smile as she turns back to Peter with a definite twinkle in her eye, and shifts herself away from him as she asks, do you mind if I say something? Now I took this as a "I can't even believe what you are saying moment."  It seemed as if she was almost laughing at that setatement.  

Then she started on the you said you would leave and it was confusing conversation and Peter responded with the usual just that one thing missing

Rachel looks as if she is listening sympatheticaly as Peter explains how he was feeling.

Rachel explains she had bee through this with someone else.

rachel continues to appear to be sympathetic as she listens to the get out of his head speech

then she says he's sincere and genuine but the show, the process not for him. Peter does not show much on his face as she says this.

Chris brings up the happiness vs. ring statement. Peter says that was a mistake made out of emotion and I apologize for what I said about (lowers his eyes and head throws up his hand) obviously I just saw it for the first time. I don't even remember saying it in the heat of the moment,but saying that not being with me would be settling for a life of mediocrity. I don't believe that. Rachel smiles and wideneds her eyes. Peter:  I did say that. I'm so sorry (looking at Rachel.

Rachel: Yeah I'm not leading a mediocre life. I'm living my best life. And executes a wrist flip and turns a bit away.  This was a bit sassy and dismissive. This is where I first saw the flash of anger in Peter's eyes  to commercial.  Rachel claps w/o joy Peter bites his lip.

Chris say you seemed upset.  Rachel does the frustration speech

Peter now explaining why he feels frustrated  "I was just crying backstage, and I feel attacked in the way that you responded to that, and it sucks because I didn't want it to end in the way that it did or hurt you or waste your time or get to the point we got to - gives helpless gesture with his hands.

Why do you feel attacked. I was just talking about what happened. I haven't attacked you. I'm just talking about what we both just saw.  I'm talking about how hard it was. It was frustrating (Peter says it was very frustrating) Why do. you feel attacked? That's a strong word.  Peter: It is a strong word  Rachel: So, why do you feel that way? 

Peter looks up, bites his lip, looks a Rachel: I can't speak to it at this point. 

Rachel sort of sighs, looks at Chris  (she might be feeling frustrated)

Peter goes on about having feelings for Rachel and not wanting to to change anything  he did that night (insult excepted) and eyelashes inexplicably being on the floor for two days.

Rachel says the stuff about push and pull and not knowing what he wanted, but Peter is sure that he does know what he wanted but needed more time with her. Rachel comes back with a polite version of you continue to do you cause that's great, but this is why I think all of this is just not for you. Peter compresses his lips. 

more blah blah blah

Peter not looking happy as it goes to break.

i think Peter will do better with all the women pursuing him.  He strikes me as a withholder who makes people come to him and try to get him to express himself which he may or may not do.  I don't know why he couldn't say why he felt attacked.  I don't know why he felt attacked. If he was crying back stage he showed no signs of it in his eyes.  

Rachel wasn't being particularly lawyery with him.  I'm sure her confidence in speaking and her comfort with direct speaking comes her training, but believe me she was holding back a great deal.  She asked him open ended questions, which is not at all what I do when being lawyery.  Now I do think she is smarter and more articulate than Peter and that gives her an advantage.  His advantage is that he will avoid being pinned down at all costs. Game set match.

I don't know if Bryan is the right one for Rachel.  If he isn't, I hope she pulls the plug quickly.  

Yes! I like your analysis of the conversation. I think the way some people are interpreting it could be based on where their sympathies reside; With her or with Peter.  But looking at it objectively and in total, it's pretty clear. I would say more about why sympathies fall this way or that, but I found certain discussions can be prickly in mixed company.

[catrice2]

Let me also clear up one thing that has bothered me.....Rachel is from "the hood."  Peter got backlash about a stupid rap.  I personally do not feel that Peter is that swift and was just reaching for a word that rhymed and had some "cred," but in actuality Rachel is from  South Oak Cliff.  Although 30 or more years ago Oak Cliff was a decent neighborhood, over the years it has deteriorated.  There are still nice parts of Oak Cliff and areas that still have a Black country club and houses that have been maintained, but overall Oak Clliff is considered a "hood," ask any policeman in Dallas and they will tell you about the crime rate.   This is why Fred and Rachel were at PRIVATE school, or Rachel would have been in the same school as say a Dennis Rodman.  Just because her father is a judge and she has an educated family does not mean they lived in Highland Park. 

Some of the older prominent residents choose to stay in Oak Cliff instead of moving to a nicer area, some have tried to revitalize parts of it.  Since Rachel's father is a judge it may have been a good political move to stay in his area , or maybe they just liked it.  I have no idea if the family even still lives there or how long they lived there while she was a child, but it is what it is.. What I never understood was what is wrong with being from "the hood?"  Some of our most successful community leaders   ( like her father) grew up in the GHETTO ,   not even as nice as the hood,  or a "hood.  No matter where you come from you own it and you are not ashamed.  There a plenty of successful people who live in "the hood," for their own reasons. Corey Booker lived in one of the worst neighborhoods in Newark, by choice. 

Racial overtones were so much a part of this season that every word was dissected.  Not a popular opinion, but based upon things I've heard and read I believe a lot of the Peter backlash from some fans is about their projection of their own rejection from a Caucasian man or how they feel about seeing a Black woman rejected by one.  I have heard people already say they are more accepting of Bryan because he is "not white," so she didn't totally abandon minorities.   Rachel acted as if she had never heard Spanish before the way she squealed every time Bryan uttered a word.  Overall that was one of the other things that bothered me.  In spite of her protests, she responded like someone who had never dated outside of her race before and acted as if that experience was some big adventure that she was on.   I also believe a lot of the Bryan dislike is from people who were "played" by someone like Bryan.   I just found him unattractive and fake, but hey, Peter was bland and his speech bugged me.  I am an equal opportunity hater. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by catrice2

[Miss Slay]

5 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Let me also clear up one thing that has bothered me.....Rachel is from "the hood."  Peter got backlash about a stupid rap.  I personally do not feel that Peter is that swift and was just reaching for a word that had some "cred," but in actuality Rachel is from  South Oak Cliff.  Although 30 or more years ago Oak Cliff was a decent neighborhood, over the years it has deteriorated.  There are still nice parts of Oak Cliff and areas that still have a Black country club and houses that have been maintained, but overall Oak Clliff is considered a "hood," ask any policeman in Dallas and they will tell you about the crime rate.   This is why Fred and Rachel were at PRIVATE school, or Rachel would have been in the same school as say a Dennis Rodman.  Just because her father is a judge and she has an educated family does not mean they lived in Highland Park. 

Some of the older prominent residents choose to stay in Oak Cliff instead of moving to a nicer area, some have tried to revitalize parts of it.  Since Rachel's father is a judge it may have been a good political move to stay in his area , or maybe they just liked it.  I have no idea if the family even still lives there or how long they lived there while she was a child, but it is what it is.. What I never understood was what is wrong with being from "the hood?"  Some of our most successful community leaders   ( like her father) grew up in the GHETTO ,   not even as nice as the hood,  or a "hood.  No matter where you come from you own it and you are not ashamed.  There a plenty of successful people who live in "the hood," for their own reasons. Corey Booker lived in one of the worst neighborhoods in Newark, by choice. 

Racial overtones were so much a part of this season that every word was dissected.  Not a popular opinion, but based upon things I've heard and read I believe a lot of the Peter backlash from some fans is about their projection of their own rejection from a Caucasian man or how they feel about seeing a Black woman rejected by one.  I have heard people already say they are more accepting of Bryan because he is "not white," so she didn't totally abandon minorities.   Rachel acted as if she had never heard Spanish before the way she squealed every time Bryan uttered a word.  Overall that was one of the other things that bothered me.  In spite of her protests, she responded like someone who had never dated outside of her race before and acted as if that experience was some big adventure that she was on.   I also believe a lot of the Bryan dislike is from people who were "played" by someone like Bryan.   I just found him unattractive and fake, but hey, Peter was bland and his speech bugged me.  I am an equal opportunity hater. 

Wow. First, this post is full of assumptions about Rachel that you could not possibly know. For one, no one but Rachel's parents know why they sent their children to private school.  It is pure speculation that Rachel's parents sent their daughter to private school because of the neighborhood they lived in. You don't know anything about her family and the reasons why they chose private school or public school. 

And it appears that Rachel attended a Christian private school. As Rachel has highlighted her faith several times on this show, perhaps that was of importance to her family.

Second, the housing in this country is the most segregated aspect of Americana. Many upper-middle class African-Americans choose to live in predominately black neighborhoods - as opposed to moving to exclusively white neighborhoods for a variety of reasons. And when people live in neighborhoods for 40, 50 years, they are often not the same neighborhood that they originally settled into. If someone can pay fro private school and write a check for college without blinking...I suppose "hood" is relative.

[catrice2]

I don't have any idea why they sent their child to private school and I really don't care , that was not the point of the post. Nor did I ever say that there were not some affluent black neighborhoods that they could have moved to that's an assumption that you made.  Interesting that you thought that a nicer neighborhood would mean that it was a white neighborhood. I have no reason to believe that they didn't just like their neighborhood.  I know plenty of people who live in Oak Cliff  in both the nice part and the not-so-nice part. I do know about education in Dallas and very few people  who have the means would send their kids to the public school in that area that's just a fact . There could also be a number of reasons that they went to a Christian school that has nothing to do with  faith because her faith didn't keep her off a seedy reality show that puts your intimate life on show . At one time pretty much all of the private schools were some type of Christian Schools and it had nothing to do with faith. My mother went to a private Catholic school and her family was Baptist but that was the only private school available to my grandmother. 

 

It could have been location it could have been that the tuition was free it could have been a lot of things The point is is that Oak Cliff is considered  the hood and to get upset about that in a stupid rap was just silly.  Thanks for agreeing that it really doesn't matter where you come from that should not be something that people get caught up on.  Plenty of people who live in the quote-unquote hood have money that's just where they choose to live so all you did was say the same thing hood is a relative term.

 

My point was that just because Rachel is a lawyer and her father is a judge people shoud not assume that it means that she grew up in some mansion  and that by saying she's from the hood was somehow disparaging. 

 

By the way just to confirm these forums are really all about assumptions and speculations and you made some of your own.  Why would you assume that I don't know Rachel or people who know her and her family -that's something you don't know.people assume things all the time about this show and the people on it without facts so I'm not going to apologize for that because I'm no different than anybody else who has posted an opinion.  Maybe you are new to the board.

By the way some of the residents who have chosen to stay in Oak Cliff are white and have been there for years. I don't think I specified the racial makeup of the area. I said prominent residents decided to stay meaning those who have the means to move away if they chose to regardless of their race or religion

[NeverLate]

There's a really cute pic of them on instagram. He's carrying her fancy dress slung over his shoulder, and she's beside him, wearing sweats and a sweatshirt. It was taken from the back, but if a picture said a thousand words, that one sure did. She made the right choice, and the next bacherlotte has big shoes to fill, my girl was honest kind and direct!

[SnapeCharmer]

57 minutes ago, Hello Lady said:

There's a really cute pic of them on instagram. He's carrying her fancy dress slung over his shoulder, and she's beside him, wearing sweats and a sweatshirt. It was taken from the back, but if a picture said a thousand words, that one sure did. She made the right choice, and the next bacherlotte has big shoes to fill, my girl was honest kind and direct!

I saw that. It's super cute! She was wearing the jersey Bryan gifted her. It's says Big Rach and Dr. Abs on the back. At the bottom it says I'll always have your back. Too bad the producers left that out of the show. 

[IrishPirate]

All that drama and I'm here to register my annoyance with production people who staged the final scene in a wind tunnel. What a mess.

In the history of this show, there has NEVER been a woman whose hair wasn't flying around or drooping on the camera side of her face.

And now the wait begins. Will they make it to an actual wedding?

[dirtypop90]

I've loved Bryan during their little PR run more than I ever thought I would. Who knows if they will last. But he was the clear choice this season, from the start. He said a lot of cheesy crap like I'll be your rock during this season, and has been a freaking rock. lol it's probably because he's older, established, and clearly confident, with not much baggage, so he appears to be handling the bs very well. And I have no doubt he loves and wants Rachel. And I loved that he actually signed up for this show after finding out Rachel was the bachelorette. Just another plus in my book. Rachel's season would've been an absolute mess without him IMO 

 

I do have a question...it seems like Bryan was getting Rachel little gifts throughout the season i.e getting shirts made. Apparently he was also working on the ring in advance? I truly wonder how soon they knew he was F1 because it def seems like he was getting special perks.

Edited August 10, 2017 by dirtypop90