Titanic (1997)

[Spartan Girl]

 My God, Jack IS a manic pixie dream boy!

[VCRTracking]

21 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

 My God, Jack IS a manic pixie dream boy!

Yeah. Jack Dawson was written to be the ideal romantic male lead which Leo was not really into when they asked him to audition. EW.com:
 

Quote

When DiCaprio and Winslet--both now 22--were brought to Cameron's attention by casting director Mali Finn, he was initially uncertain, and even after Winslet's test impressed him, he reserved judgment. She sent him a single rose with a card signed "From Your Rose" and lobbied him by phone. "You don't understand!" she pleaded one day when she reached him by mobile phone in his Humvee. "I am Rose! I don't know why you're even seeing anyone else!" Her enthusiasm eventually won him over.

DiCaprio--known not so much as a leading man but as a troubled kid in William Shakespeare's Romeo & Juliet and The Basketball Diaries--seemed far less eager. At a casting meeting, he refused to read for the part with Winslet, but Cameron insisted. "He read it once, then started goofing around, and I could never get him to focus on it again," says the director. "But for one split second, a shaft of light came down from the heavens and lit up the forest."

Cameron was sold on DiCaprio, but DiCaprio wasn't sold on the part and suggested making Jack more...interesting. "Look," Cameron told him, "I'm not going to make this guy brooding and neurotic. I'm not going to give him a tic and a limp and all the things you want." Finally DiCaprio signed on and received his first million-plus paycheck.

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by VCRTracking

[voiceover]

Hm.  Totally missed the cash Cal stuffed into the pockets until I read it here.  I'd always assumed Rose pawned the necklace for money, then made it back & retrieved it from some sympathetic pawnbroker.  (Some handwaving & fanwanking involved here, for sure)  But it was the only way I could reconcile her keeping it all those years.

Because the part about the necklace that bugged me was that: it was Cal's gift to Rose.  The only connection Jack had? he included it in the portrait he drew.

And yet -- that whole last flinging of the necklace overboard seemed to be some sort of JackRose tribute.  Which makes no sense.  It's one of those McGuffin moments that doesn't bear close scrutiny.

I remember the first time I saw it (probably a month after it had opened)... as Rose let go of Jack's hand, I *very nearly* teared up.

Then a group of preteen girls in the row behind me sobbed "Leo!" in chorus.  

And I burst out laughing instead.

Edited August 30, 2018 by voiceover

[Mabinogia]

9 hours ago, voiceover said:

I remember the first time I saw it (probably a month after it had opened)... as Rose let go of Jack's hand, I *very nearly* teared up.

Nothing about Jack and Rose made me cry. I did dear up over Victor Garber's character, since it was his beautiful ship that was sinking, and the true story of the Strauss's. Now that was a love story to me. And the band. The band playing as the ship went down made me cry to. Basically, the real tragedy brought tears to my eyes, the teenage romance left me cold. And all those pretty clothes. I was so sad about the clothes, and that beautiful car.

I kind of laughed at the whole door scene because, while I get why storytelling wise Jack had to die, it was all just so overwrought and silly to me. I just never bought the love story of Titanic and am sad that it sucked up most of the movie.

[Browncoat]

My eyes were rolling too hard for me to cry about Jack and Rose.

[tennisgurl]

I admit it,I have a soft spot for this movie. Maybe because I saw it as a kid, and have some serious nostalgia googles, maybe because I have always found the Titanic story fascinating, maybe its just the spectacle that gets me, but I do like many aspects of this movie. I dont really care much about the Jack/Rose story, but I love the bits we get about the other passengers, and about the time period. Although, I dont hate Jack/Rose, and their story is pretty is suitably epic and star crossed for an epic like this, and, come on, Kate and Leo! Even if their characters are basically two living tropes (sassy rich girl who wants more, artsy perfect poor guy) they're both such excellent actors, they still manage to sell it. 

I do wish we could get a different kind of Titanic movie, or even an HBO style limited series. I mean, the things that have always fascinated me about the story are things that were touched upon in the movie, but never fully explored die to spending time in the love story. You had the dawning of the 20th century "mans hubris bites them again" stuff, you have such a massive swath of turn of the century society in one place stuck together (everyone from poor immigrants to middle class families to the heights of blue blood society on both coasts), the captain who was just about to retire, a series of tragic misunderstandings and tiny choices that led to massive tragedy, foreshadowing of the even greater tragedy of WWI (masses killed over the arrogance of the upper-classes, and society being unable to keep up with the rush of technology), tons of lost love and tragic tales that actually happened, honestly, the real Titanic seemed like more of the plot of a movie than the movie Titanic! It would have to wait a bit, because, sadly, any Titanic story would be endlessly compared to this version, but I think one that was more based on real people would be interesting.

[Dejana]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I do wish we could get a different kind of Titanic movie, or even an HBO style limited series. I mean, the things that have always fascinated me about the story are things that were touched upon in the movie, but never fully explored die to spending time in the love story. You had the dawning of the 20th century "mans hubris bites them again" stuff, you have such a massive swath of turn of the century society in one place stuck together (everyone from poor immigrants to middle class families to the heights of blue blood society on both coasts), the captain who was just about to retire, a series of tragic misunderstandings and tiny choices that led to massive tragedy, foreshadowing of the even greater tragedy of WWI (masses killed over the arrogance of the upper-classes, and society being unable to keep up with the rush of technology), tons of lost love and tragic tales that actually happened, honestly, the real Titanic seemed like more of the plot of a movie than the movie Titanic! It would have to wait a bit, because, sadly, any Titanic story would be endlessly compared to this version, but I think one that was more based on real people would be interesting.

Julian Fellowes (Downton Abbey, Gosford Park) did a Titanic miniseries in 2012 (that year also brought two more Titanic TV docudramas, and a different miniseries about the construction of the ship). Over the years, numerous films and TV episodes about the Titanic have been made.  The objections about the 1997 movie focusing primarily on Jack and Rose have always seemed strange to me, because it's hardly the first Titanic story that featured fictional characters dropped into the real event.  Even the first movie about the Titanic (released a month after the sinking) gave its star, an actress who'd survived the voyage, a fictional fiancé (named Jack!) to add drama, and it was a whopping 10 minutes long. There are plenty of documentaries and books about the ship and its survivors around to offer a more grounded perspective.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Dejana

[Annber03]

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I admit it,I have a soft spot for this movie. Maybe because I saw it as a kid, and have some serious nostalgia googles, maybe because I have always found the Titanic story fascinating, maybe its just the spectacle that gets me, but I do like many aspects of this movie. I dont really care much about the Jack/Rose story, but I love the bits we get about the other passengers, and about the time period. Although, I dont hate Jack/Rose, and their story is pretty is suitably epic and star crossed for an epic like this, and, come on, Kate and Leo! Even if their characters are basically two living tropes (sassy rich girl who wants more, artsy perfect poor guy) they're both such excellent actors, they still manage to sell it. 

I do wish we could get a different kind of Titanic movie, or even an HBO style limited series. I mean, the things that have always fascinated me about the story are things that were touched upon in the movie, but never fully explored die to spending time in the love story. You had the dawning of the 20th century "mans hubris bites them again" stuff, you have such a massive swath of turn of the century society in one place stuck together (everyone from poor immigrants to middle class families to the heights of blue blood society on both coasts), the captain who was just about to retire, a series of tragic misunderstandings and tiny choices that led to massive tragedy, foreshadowing of the even greater tragedy of WWI (masses killed over the arrogance of the upper-classes, and society being unable to keep up with the rush of technology), tons of lost love and tragic tales that actually happened, honestly, the real Titanic seemed like more of the plot of a movie than the movie Titanic! It would have to wait a bit, because, sadly, any Titanic story would be endlessly compared to this version, but I think one that was more based on real people would be interesting.

Co-signing this entire post :). Especially love your second paragraph. 

I was 13 when this movie came out and I saw it three times in the theater-once with a friend, and then two more times with family members. I didn't have a thing for Leo the way other girls did, but I did enjoy the movie itself at the time, and sometimes if I see it on TV now somewhere I'll stop and watch it-pass a few hours, and all that. 

[Giuseppe]

On 7/28/2017 at 9:46 PM, TigerLynx said:

When they are getting into the lifeboats, and Rose's mother is complaining about the cold, Rose tells her there are not enough lifeboats, not everyone will survive, and Cal says, "At least it will be the right sort of people," that underscored for Rose how horrible Cal was, and how horrible life would be with him.  Hundreds of people were going to die, and all Cal and Rose's mother cared about were money, status, appearances and how cold it was.  I can see why Rose would let them believe she had died.

I know I'm quoting an old post, but I watched this a few times over the holiday break, so it's fresh in my mind. Anyway, just my opinion, but I never thought Rose's mom was totally unsympathetic towards the plight of those not able to get in the boats. I really think she just didn't understand at that moment that, no, not everyone would make it off the ship. She just wanted to make sure her "people" would be given priority for the first boats being launched (the line about if the boats would be seated according to class, and hoping they wouldn't be too crowded with kind of a "yeah i'm being a little snobby" laugh). She was being horribly classist for sure, but she seemed to kind of snap out of it after Rose told her to shut up. There was a look of horror on her face when Rose told her half the people were going to die. And later, when they were in the boat watching the ship with it's ass high up in the air, she looks completely horror-struck--devastated at losing Rose for sure, but also seems like she feels remorse for being so blase before. Again, just my opinion. I actually felt bad for her when the lifeboat was being lowered and she kept calling out for Rose...Frances Fisher really sold the anguish there. Agreed about Cal, though. He didn't care one bit.

I love the visuals and the portrayal of the sinking in this movie. Don't care much about the love story. Usually when I see it's on TV, I'll only tune in once they've struck the iceberg.  It still boggles my mind that this actually happened. I was 19 when the movie premiered, and up until my freshman year of high school, I never really understood that this was a real-life event, lol.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Giuseppe

[Annber03]

7 minutes ago, Giuseppe said:

I love the visuals and the portrayal of the sinking in this movie. Don't care much about the love story. Usually when I see it's on TV, I'll only tune in once they've struck the iceberg.  It still boggles my mind that this actually happened. I was 19 when the movie premiered, and up until my freshman year of high school, I never really understood that this was a real-life event, lol.

The image of the boat sticking straight up in the air is a truly horrifying, eerie visual. It just looks so surreal, that massive boat sticking out against the night sky like that. And the realization that it's not going to stay standing like that forever, that it's going to collapse soon, and that people are falling off that boat to their deaths... I can't even begin to imagine the kinds of nightmares the poor survivors had in the years following that tragedy. 

[VCRTracking]

Did anybody else know this? I only found out recently:
 

Titanic Was Found During Secret Cold War Navy Mission

[Anela]

I don't remember if I posted here. I hated the love story, hated that most of the movie was about something made up (and a love triangle at that! I loathe love triangles), when people experienced real horror, and most of them died. So I'm with the person above, who only found it touching once the boat was sinking, and those people being locked in... just sickening. Although I've just googled, and that's apparently a myth, not the truth. I'm not sure I believe that. 

[Ceindreadh]

8 hours ago, Anela said:

I don't remember if I posted here. I hated the love story, hated that most of the movie was about something made up (and a love triangle at that! I loathe love triangles), when people experienced real horror, and most of them died. So I'm with the person above, who only found it touching once the boat was sinking, and those people being locked in... just sickening. Although I've just googled, and that's apparently a myth, not the truth. I'm not sure I believe that. 

I went to see it in the cinema with some friends and I did expect to be pretty much bored until the iceberg showed up. 

To my surprise I did actually enjoy the first half of the movie. (Although if I was rewatching, I’d probably fast forward through that bit now). 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I saw this with a friend when it came out. I’ve always been fascinated by the true story of the Titanic and Lusitania.

While I enjoyed the movie, I didn’t expect to be affected by the ending because I knew it would happen. But man, the visual, special effects and seeing all those bodies in the sea, I was BAWLING. My friend joked that Kleenex should have had a booth next to the concession stand-they would have made a killing.

The other thing going for it was the great cast.

[VCRTracking]

12 hours ago, Anela said:

I don't remember if I posted here. I hated the love story, hated that most of the movie was about something made up (and a love triangle at that! I loathe love triangles), when people experienced real horror, and most of them died. So I'm with the person above, who only found it touching once the boat was sinking, and those people being locked in... just sickening. Although I've just googled, and that's apparently a myth, not the truth. I'm not sure I believe that. 

(Pretentious film student voice):If the theme of the movie is class warfare it seems that moment was lower class turning on the other because they were working for the upper!

One of the reasons Julian Fellowes(creator of Downton Abbey) wrote the 2012 Titanic miniseries was the way that Cameron's film portrayed the William Murdoch, the first officer. He was a famous hero because 75 percent of the survivors came from the 10 lifeboats he launched.  In the movie he shoots the Irish guy and another passenger and then kills himself. Fellowes took issue:
 

Quote

 

Fellowes told the magazine: “That was very unfair how Murdoch was depicted. He wasn’t cowardly.

“He fired the pistol to just stop a potential riot. It was suddenly getting out of hand, and he fired it in the air. That’s not being cowardly.“

Fellowes added: “I don’t think you can just say, ‘Well, we’ll make this guy a villain — he’ll do.“

 

Wikipedia:

Quote

When Murdoch's nephew Scott saw the film, he objected to his uncle's portrayal as damaging to Murdoch's heroic reputation.[31] A few months later, Fox vice-president Scott Neeson went to Dalbeattie, Scotland, where Murdoch lived, to deliver a personal apology, and also presented a £5000 donation to Dalbeattie High School to boost the school's William Murdoch Memorial Prize.[32] Cameron apologized on the DVD commentary, but stated that there were officers who fired gunshots to enforce the "women and children first" policy.[33] According to Cameron, his depiction of Murdoch is that of an "honorable man," not of a man "gone bad" or of a "cowardly murderer." He added, "I'm not sure you'd find that same sense of responsibility and total devotion to duty today. This guy had half of his lifeboats launched before his counterpart on the port side had even launched one. That says something about character and heroism."[34]

Yeah, but viewers are still going to remember him for killing two innocent people trying to save themselves, James.

Edited January 2, 2019 by VCRTracking

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh did I mention that my friend was a guy? And that he did some tear snuffling too? He was my movie pal.

[Bill1978]

On ‎2‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 2:42 PM, Giuseppe said:

 It still boggles my mind that this actually happened. I was 19 when the movie premiered, and up until my freshman year of high school, I never really understood that this was a real-life event, lol.

As a kid I was fascinated by the sinking of the Titanic and often wondered what it would be like to be on the ship sinking etc. Obviously when I was thinking of the event I survived. I had this romantisiced version of the event, where it would have been cool to say you survived the Titanic. When I saw the movie in the cinema, my 'wish' of wanting to have experienced the real thing disappeared. I still consider the sinking of the ship to be one of the best moments in cinematic history. On rewatch I tolerate the before sinking part of the movie. I can never bring myself to just skip to the sinking cause all the scenes before help elevate the emotional impact of the sinking.

[cpcathy]

I owned this on VHS until a couple of years ago. Honestly, you only need to watch the film from the scene with Jack and Rose on the bow of the ship, and going forward. The sinking really is well done.

[Wiendish Fitch]

It's one of the biggest flippin' movies ever made, it's bound to come up in conversation, so why not have a topic dedicated to James Cameron's classic spectacle? The romance! Kate and Leo! That damn love song! That ending that launched countless obnoxious think pieces! Discuss, please!

[BooBear]

There was definitely room for two on that raft. 

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

It's one of the biggest flippin' movies ever made, it's bound to come up in conversation, so why not have a topic dedicated to James Cameron's classic spectacle?

I know there already is one, because I've posted there about how much I hate this damn movie.

Here it is.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I've always been fascinated about the true story of the Titanic. And the Lusitania. I didn't watch this movie for the love story. I wanted to see how the actual disaster would be handled. And it was magnificent. And the special effects of all those that lost their lives--I couldn't stop crying. I think I mentioned it in one of the movie threads, I can't recall which, but I went to see it with a pal, and he's not overly sentimental. But I could hear some snuffling. When the movie ended, he said how Kleenex should have put up a booth--they'd have made a killing.

Plus, it had a great cast: Kathy Bates, Victor Garber, David Warner, Billy Zane (these last two also providing voices in Batman: The Animated Series as Ra's Al Ghoul and Jason Blood/Etrigan), Frances Fisher, plus a whole lotta HITG! And of course, this movie gave us this meme, which is used ALL.THE.TIME. for any number of things! Which make me 😆🤣

[MissAlmond]

I've always been of the unpopular opinion Revolutionary Road is the story of Jack and Rose had he lived and they married.

Edited April 27, 2019 by MissAlmond

[Kiki777]

Titanic is on AMC right now.  I’ve hate-watched it many times over the years.  Yes, the sets - and Kate’s fabulous dresses - are stunning, but the dialogue is cringe-worthy.

I’m rolling my eyes again as I just caught this one line I never noticed before.  As Rose first steps onto the ship with Cal, Old Rose narrates that she’d considered Titanic to be ‘a slave ship, taking me to America in chains’

Yikes.

[paramitch]

I love it. Always have, always will. It's a movie about pure emotion (as with AVATAR), filled with equal-sexes empowerment, and I adore it.

On 7/25/2017 at 11:33 AM, Bastet said:

I like Victor Garber's performance, and Kathy Bates' short stint as Molly Brown.  Jack and Rose's five-minute "romance" and Rose's eagerness to be a poor woman in 1912 America, not so much.

Victor Garber played my favorite character in the movie. (cries)

On 7/26/2017 at 6:03 PM, raven said:

Still, my friends and I wondered 1) Did Rose ever tell her mother she survived and 2) In the afterlife, she hooks back up with Jack, but what about her (presumed) husband?  Didn't she marry and have a kid to get that granddaughter and the husband was dead?  Did he care that in the afterlife she's back with Jack?  Inquiring minds want to know.

The movie seems to say "No." Definitively. And it's implied that, well, she liked her hubby but that it was kind of part of Jack's directive to marry, have kids, move on, even if she didn't emotionally. Which, ugh.

On 7/27/2017 at 7:55 AM, anna0852 said:

I remember some comment from a Keldysh crew member regarding if Rose was who she said she was. He was stating emphatically that Rose had died on the Titanic in 1917. I'm going to presume that means she did not tell her mother she was alive.

LOL! But no, I don't think Rose ever contacts anyone from her former life again.

On 7/27/2017 at 5:08 PM, Dejana said:

She didn't even try to cash in on the diamond when she was broke post-Titanic, so it doesn't seem she let on about her old life to anyone before. I could watch this movie on a loop but I thought it was so stupid of Rose to throw the Heart of the Ocean overboard, I don't feel the movie would have lost anything if she'd left it among her things instead. At least Cameron scrapped that horrible alternate ending where the granddaughter and Bill Paxton caught her on the railing.

My sweet late Mom was SO UPSET when Rose threw the diamond overboard and I kind of agree. It was total rich-person thinking. Sure, toss a priceless conglomeration of fricking DIAMONDS instead of feeding how many people?! It still hits me so negatively. People's LIVES could have been saved by that necklace, dammit!

On 7/27/2017 at 5:18 PM, anna0852 said:

She did have all that cash that Cal had stuffed into the coat back in his stateroom. He even commented later about putting the coat on Rose and that the diamond was still in one of the pockets, along with presumably all that cash.

Yeah, she was definitely all set to be comfortable and forge a new life.

On 7/28/2017 at 11:09 AM, rmontro said:

I don't care if she wanted to cash it in or not, I just think it was stupid and selfish of her to just toss it in the ocean where no one would ever be able to appreciate it again.  There aren't many natural diamonds like that in the world. 

I agree, and so did my late Mom, who screamed when she tossed the damn thing.

On 7/28/2017 at 4:43 PM, Dejana said:

Real-life survivor Charles Joughin, the ship's chief baker, is portrayed in the movie. According to his account, he was hanging onto the railing when Titanic went underwater.

The real reminiscences have been a real treasure here.

On 7/28/2017 at 4:54 PM, DisneyBoy said:

You can tell in the moment when her mother orders her into the lifeboat that Rose has crossed a threshold where she would rather die than ever be under her power again. That Jack perishes and she survives probably made her even more bitter.

Agreed.

On 8/1/2017 at 2:12 PM, CaughtOnTape said:

The sinking is mostly why I watch.  James Cameron did very well portraying the desperation of those trying to get off along with the panic when the final realization came that the ship WAS actually going to go down.  The terror was palpable even though I was watching it 80 years later knowing full well it was going down.  

I agree. I think his work to convey the beauty and real triumph of the Titanic's lifespan, from its sailing, to its sinking, was incredible. I will always love him (and James Horner) for making that journey so real.

On 8/1/2017 at 4:22 PM, rmontro said:

I'm always distracted by James Cameron's hands (which did the drawing) in that scene.  I always think "Ah, the old perv had to stick himself in that scene to get the best view, didn't he?".  Anyway, my point was I bet that Titanic is the most widely viewed movie with a semi-nude scene, wouldn't you think?

I loved that detail. We get to see the hands of the actual artist sketching a moment. I don't care that it's Cameron. I'm just glad it's there.

On 11/17/2017 at 11:07 PM, rmontro said:

For awhile there, it seemed like she was nude or topless in nearly every movie she was in.  Not that I'm complaining, mind you  🙂

This isn't cool to me. Kate is/was incredibly brave about nudity, mostly reserving it for elite filmmakers, and even when used by filmmakers who (regrettably) cashed in on it. I'll never judge an actor for that leap of faith. And I don't think Cameron was one who 'used' her. The scene here was very tasteful and brief.

On 12/14/2017 at 10:55 AM, MrsR said:

This film also has the most dangerous, almost impossible location shoot in the history of film, two and a half miles under the surface of the ocean. AWESOME!!!!!

So despite all the "ROSE!!!" "JACK!!!" calling out, I still love this film.

I love that, both as subtext and supertext. This movie truly, truly changed Cameron and pushed him to pass along those lessons to viewers in the film and docs. 

Edited January 21, 2020 by paramitch
edited to clarify a section and pull back on some inflammatory language

[VCRTracking]

Kathy Bates talks about Titanic at 9:30 of this video:

 

 

 

[BetterButter]

 

[VCRTracking]

For me, the real question is not whether it's a good movie or not. It is. Everything works. The question is whether it's a GREAT movie. I always wonder why some movies are considered good while others "great". What is the missing ingredient that makes the former the latter?

Edited July 4, 2020 by VCRTracking

[WritinMan]

On 7/4/2020 at 9:42 AM, VCRTracking said:

For me, the real question is not whether it's a good movie or not. It is. Everything works. The question is whether it's a GREAT movie. I always wonder why some movies are considered good while others "great". What is the missing ingredient that makes the former the latter?

Typically, for me, a great movie is one that sticks with you long after watching it. While other movie memories come and go, you keep thinking about it, revisiting certain parts in your mind.

[txhorns79]

5 hours ago, WritinMan said:

Typically, for me, a great movie is one that sticks with you long after watching it. While other movie memories come and go, you keep thinking about it, revisiting certain parts in your mind.

There are a few lines from this movie that always stuck with me:

"A woman's heart is a deep ocean of secrets..." and

Rose speaking about Jack: "I don't even have a picture of him.  He exists now only in my memory." 

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

So I watched this over the weekend, and here's something I'd forgotten--Rose, that twit. So much for the twuuuu wuuuuv for Jack, She easily believed that he stole that necklace that Ra's Al Ghoul Lovejoy dropped into the jacket Jack was wearing. And only believed that he was set up at the end after Cal made some comment about it.

And the ridonkulousness of Cal--that narcissistic arse--going after them, trying to kill them, when the ship was sinking and they were all most likely to die!

So of course after the movie, I was searching and scrolling for any documentaries I could find about Titanic. And peeved because apparently there is now a Titanic channel! And I can try it out for a free 7-Day Trial! No thank you!

But I found two short items--one was a documentary of sorts: "The Arrogance of Titanic" I think it was. It was made in 2011, the other was a more recent dramatization of the inquiry into the Californian and what role she played in hastening Titanic's end. I think that was called "The Titanic Inquiry" or something. 

Anyway, I saw the latter first--and all the court room testimony came from the actual record--the out of the courtroom scenes were the dramatization based on the authors' research (there was a disclaimer that stated that). From this, it seems that the Captain ignored the rockets, which were the distress signals coming from Titanic, and the "scrap log" which is where the handwritten notes are transferred to the official ship log, went missing. This was crucial as the scrap log would have shown just how far Titanic was from the Californian. And it showed that she could have gotten to Titanic sooner than the Carpathia did, the next morning. Really interesting.

BUT. The former documentary stated that in the end, the Captain of the Californian was scapegoated and was innocent because when they found Titanic in 1985, she had been too far away for the Californian to have saved her passengers.

What to believe? Who to believe? It's all so fascinating. If you believe the testimony of the Captain, which stated they were 30 some miles away because that's what was in the official log book, then yes, he was scapegoated. But if you believe the testimony of the junior officer, they were roughly 5-7 miles away, then the Captain lied.

But you can't ignore that Captain Smith seemingly ignored the warnings they'd been getting all day about icebergs and continued on at full speed. Or that there weren't enough lifeboats for everyone.

It's all very sad.

[Annber03]

Those documentaries sound fascinating, @GHScorpiosRule! I should pass the news about that channel on to my sister, she's always had an interest in this story and she might enjoy that. 

I agree with your thoughts on the contradicting information. Considering how many people were no doubt trying to cover their own asses and shift blame elsewhere afterward, yeah, it's hard to know who's being truthful. The fact that scrap log book went missing is particularly interesting. Does seem to speak to someone trying to avoid taking blame. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

39 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Those documentaries sound fascinating, @GHScorpiosRule! I should pass the news about that channel on to my sister, she's always had an interest in this story and she might enjoy that. 

I agree with your thoughts on the contradicting information. Considering how many people were no doubt trying to cover their own asses and shift blame elsewhere afterward, yeah, it's hard to know who's being truthful. The fact that scrap log book went missing is particularly interesting. Does seem to speak to someone trying to avoid taking blame. 

I was able to watch those two things via Prime Video. Free to me as a Prime Member. The one I really want to see is about the Lusitania, but I can't find any good documentaries about her anywhere.

You ask me, Captain Smith holds some of the blame as does whoever was caught saying "don't bother me, I'm playing Cape" or whatever it was, when a third? fourth? message was sent to Titanic about the icebergs.

[VCRTracking]

On 7/5/2020 at 6:33 PM, txhorns79 said:

There are a few lines from this movie that always stuck with me:

"A woman's heart is a deep ocean of secrets..." and

Rose speaking about Jack: "I don't even have a picture of him.  He exists now only in my memory." 

 

I also remember "I'd rather be his whore than your wife!" Sick burn!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Man! I went down the bonus features rabbit hole!!! GAH!

I came away with two things:

1.  While everyone had nothing but praise for Leo, (talked about the friendships formed, his likeability, ability to shift from Jack to himself between takes, etc., etc.) he only showed up for like, 10 seconds to talk about how cold the water was. That's it. He didn't show up at the 2012 (100 year anniversary) premiere in London, when the movie was re-released in 3D. EVERYONE of the main cast, except for him, was there.
2. James Cameron needs to get over himself. Yes, cinematically, this movie was FABULOUS. And kudos to him for all the hard work that went into making it--with the help of two historians. But PUHLEAZE. Trying to figure out why this piece or that piece was at x place on the bottom of the sea floor. What REAAALLLLLLLY happened? And bringing in the historians, and other people from the Navy, Coast Guard, blah, and holding a CSI-type meeting, blah, blah. It was a tragedy. We know from the survivors that yes, the ship split and went down in pieces.

Now, that fact (and I didn't know this before) the stupid inquiry "experts" said Titanic was in one piece when she sank, and refused to believe the survivors, I'll never understand. One of the historians (and damn, I'm blanking on his name) got to know them and became friends with them. He said one of his biggest regrets was not advising Ruth Blanchard (she was 12), to ask one of those experts in a later inquiry in the '80s, when he dismissed her testimony: "Were you there?" I wish he had and wish she had. If only to shut him up. Because of course, it was the discovery of Titanic, that lent truth to her testimony that the ship, did indeed, break when she went down.

And now I need something to take my mind off of this.

[RealHousewife]

Anyone else a very sensitive and/or depressive person who loves movies like Titanic and The Notebook but have a hard time watching them?

[VCRTracking]

Jack should have been a better artist. I mean, James Cameron drew the picture himself and it's...okay. Lets be real if you didn't see the movie and you saw the picture you wouldnt know it was Kate Winslet:

I guess Bill Paxton and his crew had the right reaction to it "It's a picture of the diamond we're looking for!" not "Oh my God this picture is amazing! Who drew this?" It would have added to the tragedy that Jack had this great talent and all that potential was lost.

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by VCRTracking

[rmontro]

On 8/4/2020 at 1:51 PM, VCRTracking said:

I guess Bill Paxton and his crew had the right reaction to it "It's a picture of the diamond we're looking for!" not "Oh my God this picture is amazing! Who drew this?" It would have added to the tragedy that Jack had this great talent and all that potential was lost.

I admit I would probably be thnking "Diamond?  What diamond?".

[raven]

Never heard of this until today.  There was an ending where Old Rose hands the diamond to what's his name and he gives it back.  It's pretty bad; laughably bad, actually.  The woman playing the granddaughter is a terrible actress (IIRC she was dating Cameron at the time).  Anyway, I still love the movie, here is the alternate ending for your enjoyment!

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

That was...horrible. And Rose was getting ready to pitch it in the ocean, but he begs her if he can just hold it. And the acting was just embarrassingly bad. Then Rose giggles like a tween and tosses it. She never gave it to him to keep.

[Spartan Girl]

I saw that alternate ending clip years back. It SUCKED. Thank goodness they didn’t use it, or it would have gone down in infamy as one of the worst endings ever, right along with Game of Thrones.

[Bastet]

Yikes.  I wouldn't have thought this shittastic movie could be worse, but, oh look, it could've been.  The acting.  The backlighting.  The dialogue.  Oh, dear.

[Dejana]

On 2/24/2021 at 8:37 PM, raven said:

Never heard of this until today.  There was an ending where Old Rose hands the diamond to what's his name and he gives it back.  It's pretty bad; laughably bad, actually.  The woman playing the granddaughter is a terrible actress (IIRC she was dating Cameron at the time).  Anyway, I still love the movie, here is the alternate ending for your enjoyment!

 

James Cameron was still married to Linda Hamilton when Titanic was being made, and after, as they went to the Oscars together when it won big.  What the exact overlap with Suzy Amis was, who knows, but it's good that Cameron had sense enough to set aside one of his future wife's bigger scenes, because, woof, that was terrible. I still think Rose shouldn't have thrown the diamond in the ocean, but there were better ways to play that out.

 

I was something of a Titanic junkie and had consumed earlier dramatizations (movies/miniseries/books) set on the ship. Many featured made-up characters and romances (across class lines, and not), so the criticisms about the 1997 version for "ignoring the real victims" and "trivializing the tragedy",  like this was something that had never been done in fiction before with history... No movie is going to be for everyone, and anything as popular and ubiquitous as Titanic was at the time will have detractors, but I was a bit surprised when it went in that direction. Maybe there was the same sort of backlash to From Here to Eternity back in the day for not being "real" enough about Pearl Harbor, and it's just been lost to time?

It’s not as though nonfictional material about the real Titanic has ever been in short supply, if people want more of a historical focus. But a luxury setting away from the real world, so to speak, suddenly turning tragic? IMO it's an environment that lends itself to "characters looking for a fresh start and/or love" stories in a way that other historical events may not.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Dejana

[Milburn Stone]

On 2/24/2021 at 7:37 PM, raven said:

Never heard of this until today.  There was an ending where Old Rose hands the diamond to what's his name and he gives it back.  It's pretty bad; laughably bad, actually.  The woman playing the granddaughter is a terrible actress (IIRC she was dating Cameron at the time).  Anyway, I still love the movie, here is the alternate ending for your enjoyment!

 

I hated everything about the movie--but I like that alternate ending! Sure, the dialogue is somewhat hackneyed, but the sequence of events makes me feel something. Which is something the whole rest of the movie didn't do.

[Mabinogia]

The only thing I liked about the actual ending and this alternate ending is the slow walk through the ship at the very end. That ship really was a work of art. 

[EarlGreyTea]

I think the introduction of young Rose, with the music swelling slightly and her gorgeous face being revealed under that equally gorgeous hat is, for my money, the single best character introduction in cinematic history. Fight me!

 

[Hiyo]

Eh, it's nice, but it's no Katherine Hepburn descending down in an elevator throne in Suddenly, Last Summer.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Hiyo

[tv echo]

The MCU Star Who Almost Played Rose In Titanic
BY PATRICK PHILLIPS     FEB. 3, 2022
https://www.looper.com/756511/the-mcu-star-who-almost-played-rose-in-titanic/ 

Quote

Gwyneth Paltrow nearly boarded Titanic as Rose instead of Kate Winslet
...
The MCU star who almost played Rose in "Titanic" is none other than Gwyneth Paltrow. And even if she can't always remember which films she was in, Paltrow has brilliantly portrayed Pepper Potts in no fewer than seven Marvel projects since 2008's "Iron Man." We now know that if fate had swung her way back when James Cameron was casting the role of Rose DeWitt Bukater, Paltrow would've been the only actor alive who could boast credits in three of the top five highest-grossing films of all time (alongside "Avengers: Infinity War" and "Endgame").

As reported by Us Weekly, Paltrow spilled the beans on her near-casting in "Titanic" during an interview with Howard Stern. And according to Paltrow, she was indeed one of the last actors left standing during the extensive casting, explaining that "I know that the story is that I turned it down. I think I was really in contention for it — I was one of the last two."

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by tv echo

[anna0852]

There is an MCU actor who can claimed to have appeared in 5 of the all time top grossing films: Zoe Saldana

She appeared in Avatar, Infinity War and Endgame. 

[SlovakPrincess]

On 8/30/2018 at 12:41 AM, voiceover said:

Hm.  Totally missed the cash Cal stuffed into the pockets until I read it here.  I'd always assumed Rose pawned the necklace for money, then made it back & retrieved it from some sympathetic pawnbroker.  (Some handwaving & fanwanking involved here, for sure)  But it was the only way I could reconcile her keeping it all those years.

Because the part about the necklace that bugged me was that: it was Cal's gift to Rose.  The only connection Jack had? he included it in the portrait he drew.

And yet -- that whole last flinging of the necklace overboard seemed to be some sort of JackRose tribute.  Which makes no sense.  It's one of those McGuffin moments that doesn't bear close scrutiny.

That necklace was annoying as hell.  As you said, why else was she holding onto it, if not for some money -- how else was she supporting herself when she first landed in the US?  Payment from the company that owned the Titanic?   Though I could see them skimping on payments to anyone they assumed came from the "lower levels" of the Titanic, as she was hiding her affluent past to avoid being anywhere near Cal on the rescue ship.  

I guess since she wore it while posing nude for Jack, it had some connection to Jack in her mind, but a girl's gotta eat and she was starting over entirely!   Did she ever reconnect with her mom or just let the woman think she drowned -- I mean, damn, not sure her mom deserved that!

And then she throws the damn thing in the sea ... so much for leaving an inheritance to the grandkids.  If nothing else, give it to a museum or sell it and give the money to charity or something!  For cripes sake ...