S08.E01: And Then There Were Five

[Spiderella2]

On 7/18/2017 at 5:13 PM, guilfoyleatpp said:

doooode...like moving when you're pregnant and have a toddler is WAY HARDER than throwing things in a box and yelling at Tori about a hoodie.  Who could have known that moving with kids is so hard?! She moved a million times when Jace was a...oh yeah. Barb had Jace.

And what's so bad about a hotel room? It's small, there's no where he could escape to...oh wait I get it. There's no room she can shut him in. Got it.

It totally seems like Kaiser is "a spirited" child.  They can try the best of parents, and especially a lazy ass like Jailnelle. 

And just me over here rubbing my hands together with evil glee while J bitches about how she has no friends or family.  Hmmm....

I don't think Kaiser is a spirited child. He is just neglected. He seems to be a typical toddler to me (I have twin boys around Kaiser's age). He was probably more irritable and cranky this day because of the chaos of the move. Children thrive with structure and schedules, when they know what is coming next. The only thing Kaiser can predict is that he is going to get dragged around, yelled at, and ignored.  Kaiser's emotional needs are not being met in any way, shape, or form. He can't communicate his needs (or if he did no one would care).

He is energetic because they keep him cooped up all day just like how they keep their dogs in crates. These idiots probably don't allow him to go outside and play (unless Maryssa or Jace is there). He can't play in the fenced backyard because there is probably poop all over the now-dead grass. 

He is not reaching his developmental milestones. He should be talking and know 50-100 words by now. He is not being taught anything at all. Absolutely nothing. Not even the basics of language, life, or manners. I doubt she has ever read him a book (unless she was being filmed). My boys have 7-10 books read to them DAILY. Kaiser is developmentally behind because of Janelle. So Roll can't express himself well or even at all. He cries, whines, and throws tantrums because that is his only option, his only way to communicate. That is all that he has learned from Janelle. 

He has no stimulation whatsoever besides TVs, video games, or an iPad. When the other kids aren't around, he has no one to play with. I have never seen Janelle play with him...not even a game of peekaboo where she doesn't have to even get off her lazy ass. Janelle's phone is more important than her kid.

As a trap baby, his function has been served, so Janelle doesn't want him anymore, since she isn't with Nathan. Plus he looks so much like Nathan and that probably angers both UBT and her. The only reason she hasn't dumped him off at Nathan's  is because she wants to still look to the world like she is s 'good mother'. Losing primary custody of a 2nd kid would not a Z-list star make. She prides herself on being a 'mom'.  That would definitely tank her 'brand'.

He is being given food all the time to shut him up, and unfortunately that has become his soothing mechanism. We all have seen him left in his crib/playpen for hours at a time, with barely any interaction unless the other kids are there. Janelle is not raising Kaiser...Kaiser is raising Kaiser. Well, maybe Maryssa is, but she is a kid herself and can only do so much. He is being dragged around and physically manhandled. He models their behavior right back to them and they can't stand it. Karma bitches!

Please Janelle, before buying a new toy for UBT or yourself, before going on another crazy ass expensive vacation...just pay for a nice preschool for Kaiser. He is better off in preschool with strangers for 10-12 hours a day than in this loony bin with you. You obviously don't want him around, just drop him off in the morning at 7 or 8 am, you can come home, get high all day and then pick him up at 6pm. You can still claim to be a "stay at home mom" or "working mom". Think about t Janelle! This can be a mutually beneficial situation...it gets him out of your hair during the day so you can "work" on Instagram making your dumb commercials for the sheep that buy anything you say. 

Preschool will give you both a well needed break. Plus they will help you potty train him(which you should be attempting by now). At least in preschool he will have some stability, structure, education, and socialization. He will have teachers who show him affection, someone to kiss those cheeks and give him snuggles, and peers his own age to play with. And preschool is not that expensive, it definitely costs less than a boat payment. 

With a little love, affection, attention, education and stimulation, Kaiser could grow up to be a normal kid. We all know that is never going to happen....he's more Iikely to be a sociopath like his mom or serial killer like his stepdad. And Nathan needs to fight for full custody. Even if he just turns around and gives Roll to his mom to raise, it's better than what Kaiser has now. I never thought I would say this, but Nathan, with all his anger, PTSD, and issues...he is the lesser of 2 evils. That poor boy. The odds were stacked against him from his moment of conception.  I wish Roll could be adopted out to someone who will love him as he should be loved. 

I'm worried about the state of the world 20/30 years from now. If all these idiots  keep having a bunch of kids, us smart people will be outnumbered very quickly. There is no way we can even catch up to their procreation rate unless we all start having unprotected sex indiscriminately and popping out babies every other year. I don't want my sons dating Endtable or any child dragged up by idiots. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Spiderella2
More points & spelling

[lilmarysunshine]

See....I think that is a bullshit excuse from Barbara, if that is the case. She has time and attention to lavish on Jace, to her credit. And she does not want Jace there because she knows what that home is like. (And to me wrongly puts all or most blame on David now, it seems.) Kaiser is a baby. He needs someone to step up for him. Would like to think if he was my grandchild, I would do what I could to protect him instead of trying to protect myself from hurt or disappointment regarding him. If his own grandmother will not stick her neck out, who will? 

[Scarlett45]

15 minutes ago, lilmarysunshine said:

See....I think that is a bullshit excuse from Barbara, if that is the case. She has time and attention to lavish on Jace, to her credit. And she does not want Jace there because she knows what that home is like. (And to me wrongly puts all or most blame on David now, it seems.) Kaiser is a baby. He needs someone to step up for him. Would like to think if he was my grandchild, I would do what I could to protect him instead of trying to protect myself from hurt or disappointment regarding him. If his own grandmother will not stick her neck out, who will? 

I disagree. Barb has done more than her part in raising Jace. She informed Jenelle she wouldn't be doing the same for Kaiser. Its not Barbs responsibility to raise every child Jenelle decides to create, she gave her ample opportunity to step up regarding Jace and she refused. Now Jenelle has had two additional children with deadbeats. I'm sure it breaks Barb's heart but she won't be any good to herself or Jace if she over extends herself and continues to enable Jenelle further. If Barb did decide to take Kaiser and raise him I'm sure there would be people that say she's enabling Jenelle and now Jenelle will never learn.

Its a hard position for Barb to be in, (as well as Nathan's mom who's raising his eldest) and it sucks for Kaiser who's an innocent baby, but the people at fault here are Jenelle and Nathan. 

[CofCinci]

19 minutes ago, lilmarysunshine said:

See....I think that is a bullshit excuse from Barbara, if that is the case. She has time and attention to lavish on Jace, to her credit. And she does not want Jace there because she knows what that home is like. (And to me wrongly puts all or most blame on David now, it seems.) Kaiser is a baby. He needs someone to step up for him. Would like to think if he was my grandchild, I would do what I could to protect him instead of trying to protect myself from hurt or disappointment regarding him. If his own grandmother will not stick her neck out, who will? 

Janelle doesn't let Babs anywhere near Kaiser. 

[Spiderella2]

I'm not sure what you guys expect Barbara to do..Janelle admitted that she hadn't spoken to Barbara in months. I agree that Babs knows that all is not well in the Homicide Hell. I'm sure Jace told her some stories and she may have seen the episodes. I'm sure she will be shocked when she sees this first episode, and maybe she will try calling Janelle to offer advice. We have all seen what goes down when Barb tries to advise Janelle. So I wonder, all of you blaming Barb for doing nothing...what can she do? 

She is already raising 2 kids, (Jace, and the other kid from her other daughter). Plus she works full time to support her household and lives over an hour away. She is an older lady, probably has her own health issues, and her BF definitely has health issues from the looks of him. Her only recourse would be to call CPS, and keep calling CPS on Janelle. Which is probably why Janelle doesn't want to give her mom her address.  

As evidenced by last seasons reunion, Barb feels frustrated yet upset (maybe guilt?) and doesn't want to cause more legal problems for her pregnant daughter. She backed out calling the cops during the reunion when Janelle & UBT took Jace to their hotel. 

If the parents don't give a damn about their kids, your hands are tied at that point. So...what can Barbara do? What can anyone else do? 

I do want to call CPS on Janelle. If I knew her new address, I would call them over and over again. Foster care would be better for Roll than living in Homicide Hell with this raging narcissistic sociopath and controlling, manipulative dragger UBT. They truly do deserve each other. 

#SaveKaiser

[HeySandyStrange]

I see the problem being that if Barb sticks her neck out, Jenelle will just chop off her head when she is done using her mom for free childcare. It's what she would love to do with Jace, after all, snatch him from Barb, screw him up and then dangle him in front of Barb. Also, to be honest, what can Barb really do for Kaiser? Emotional neglect is rarely enough for the authorities to step in, so it is almost futile for Barb to try to get them involved. She really is in a no win situation imho. 

Also, as much as a think Barb has her heart in the right place and is good to Jace, I don't think she could try to raise/care for 2+ children and still be effective. She is like Jenelle in that way, easily stressed. We saw a little of that when she had her other grandson along with Jace. I can't fault her for knowing her limits and working with them. If Jenelle had such self-awareness maybe she wouldn't have so many children she obviously doesn't want.

[Pepper Mostly]

16 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I get what you mean. I was going to say Farrah is as well. Janelle just doesn't know how to handle kids and yet.. keeps having more. 

 

She's like Diane Downs. Who kept having babies she couldn't care less about, and eventually tried to murder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Downs

15 hours ago, teapot said:

 

WHAT ARE WE WATCHING, YOU GUYS?  OMG!!!

OK, this made me laugh for 10 minutes straight. Sometimes I have these moments of clarity too! "Holy shit, why am I wasting my life watching these trashy wenches being trashy?" 

[lilmarysunshine]

At the very least, complain about it and draw some attention to how he is treated! Or when she was shown with both of them, give the kid some attention. It is like the kid does not even exist to her. 

[FozzyBear]

39 minutes ago, lilmarysunshine said:

See....I think that is a bullshit excuse from Barbara, if that is the case. She has time and attention to lavish on Jace, to her credit. And she does not want Jace there because she knows what that home is like. (And to me wrongly puts all or most blame on David now, it seems.) Kaiser is a baby. He needs someone to step up for him. Would like to think if he was my grandchild, I would do what I could to protect him instead of trying to protect myself from hurt or disappointment regarding him. If his own grandmother will not stick her neck out, who will? 

I agree-ish. I think Barbara 's feelings about K are complicated. I think she stepped up with Jace partly because Janelle was still a teenager and Barbara felt partly responsible. Now Janelle is an adult making horrible decisions and Barbara doesn't have as much sympathy. Plus due to the tension between J and B she didn't have the chance to bond with K like she did Jace. And I don't think she wants to. Barbara hasn't ever struck me as being particularly maternal. More mature and able to step up when needed, but I didn't think she loves parenting. So your left with some real practical concerns of a middle aged woman on a limited incom even being able to take care of 2 young boys, Janelle withholding Kieser as punishment for all the imagined crimes Barbara has committed, and a pinch of Barbara being kind of petty about not wanting to help Janelle again. I think it's a mix of real stuff and emotionaly fucked up stuff on Barbara's end. I mean Janelle didn't just fall out if the sky. I don't think she exactly grew up in an emotionaly healthy home.

[MissMel]

I think Barb is as much of stranger to Kaiser as the viewers are, at this point.  He probably recognizes the cashiers at Target more than he would recognize her.  Nathan and Jenelle kept her at arms length, Uncle ID and Jenelle have cut her off completely.  Barb doesn't know Ensley either and I'm sure she'll grow up the same way as Kaiser.  I don't think Barb is cold and uncaring.  I just think she is dealing with the situation she's been dealt.  She can only see those two children on the show like any other viewer that tunes in.  Uncle Id and Jenelle won't even bring them to reunion tapings because Babs is there.  I don't really see what other choice she has in the matter.  

[Scarlett45]

@FozzyBear & @MissMel I agree with both of you to an extent. 

I don't think Jenelle was brought up in an emotionally healthy home. I think the years of domestic violence Barb went through, as well as trying to parent 3 kids after the man who beat her ass on the regular walked out, coping with treatment for her son that has schizophrenia has taken an emotional toll on Barb. Never mind the emotional abuse the kids may have suffered at the hands of their Dad. (And any mental illness they inherited)

She just doesn't have as much to give emotionally as a woman her age who hasn't been through that type of trauma. Add that to the guilt Barb feels that her kids grew up witnessing DV- which she admits to feeling, and why her other daughter stated Jenelle got many more material possessions when Barb was with Mike and had it to give to her, and she was cutting her slack about raising Jace. I don't think Barb is cold and unfeeling- she may have never been the warmest woman around (personality wise) but she tried to do the best by the people she loved. I don't think Barb is being "petty" buy not wanting to raise Kaiser, I think she's finally done being a door mat. I don't think it's expected for her to "love parenting", not everyone does, nor should they be expected to when their youngest is 25years old. 

[ReadMeLattice]

27 minutes ago, MissMel said:

I think Barb is as much of stranger to Kaiser as the viewers are, at this point.  He probably recognizes the cashiers at Target more than he would recognize her.  Nathan and Jenelle kept her at arms length, Uncle ID and Jenelle have cut her off completely.  Barb doesn't know Ensley either and I'm sure she'll grow up the same way as Kaiser.  I don't think Barb is cold and uncaring.  I just think she is dealing with the situation she's been dealt.  She can only see those two children on the show like any other viewer that tunes in.  Uncle Id and Jenelle won't even bring them to reunion tapings because Babs is there.  I don't really see what other choice she has in the matter.  

Jenelle is regularly emotionally abusive to Barb at this point. Both Nathan and David have gotten in her face and screamed like thugs. I don't blame her at all for not getting involved *except* that she should probably call CPS (for all we know she has previously). Beyond that there's nothing she can do. 

Jenelle should be ashamed of how she treats that little boy. I almost had tears in my eyes while watching it. She's disgusting. 

I have to say with two partner-chokings *that we know about,* no custody of his other child, and a history of crime, violence and serious substance abuse, I can't say that Nathan seems much better. Of course he seems better when he's actually with Kaiser, because he's sober or semi-sober for those *few* days, doesn't have to deal with daily frustrations, and wants to prove to Instagram that he's a good dad. Even if he shows him more affection when he sees him, I'm not trusting enough to believe his unpredictable rage would never erupt on his child or he wouldn't drive drunk or high with him in the car. He'd have custody of his other kid at least partially if he was better than David. He'd likely hug him more and engage him more in conversation and be better emotionally for the child when sober, but that won't keep Kaiser alive or safe the day he decides to take roids, get trashed and behind the wheel or get pissed off, which he's proven repeatedly he's going to keep doing. I'm not being flippant or harsh when I say that Kaiser really would be better off in state custody unless Nate's mother is willing to take him. And that's not true of many children. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Lm2162

[Scarlett45]

@Lm2162 I agree with you about Kaiser. Nathan and Dave scare the shit out of me (Dave more so) and I do worry for Kaiser's safety. What happens when he breaks something Dave cares about?!! Kaiser is still young, and a healthy white toddler, I think he'd be better off in foster care than around Dave 100%. 

[ReadMeLattice]

22 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

@Lm2162 I agree with you about Kaiser. Nathan and Dave scare the shit out of me (Dave more so) and I do worry for Kaiser's safety. What happens when he breaks something Dave cares about?!! Kaiser is still young, and a healthy white toddler, I think he'd be better off in foster care than around Dave 100%. 

You're right, he still has a chance to get adopted. I'm not holding my breath but that would be the best situation honestly. 

I do think Jenelle has a special talent of making even the biggest pieces of shit look relatively normal compared to her. Kieffer was trash but I was always on his side in their fights. Nathan is disgusting and sometimes I want him to win in their battles. David is horrible, but I found myself almost rooting for him in this argument. He was at least attempting to make some semblance of a rational decision about getting the keys, keeping Kaiser out of the way, etc. My husband doesn't have any of David's issues but if I had pulled what Jenelle did during that moving day he definitely would have expressed more impatience. Get the damn keys, Jenelle! 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Lm2162

[lilmarysunshine]

Nobody is saying she has to raise him. There has got to be something in between never mentioning the kid and raising him. I would think at least she would express concern about him in her conversations with producers but they have shown us nothing. Maybe it is just me but in her position, I would be constantly worried about my grandkid and would at least express that worry.

I admit to not being a huge fan of hers. I am glad she stepped up and is parenting Jace in a decent way. (Ignoring the screaming and fights in front of him and the manipulative conversations she has with him for a moment. Overall I think she is a stable and loving presence in his life.) But Jenelle is her creation, in part. She does not get all of the blame but she gets some of it, for sure. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by lilmarysunshine

[alexa]

18 minutes ago, lilmarysunshine said:

Nobody is saying she has to raise him. There has got to be something in between never mentioning the kid and raising him. I would think at least she would express concern about him in her conversations with producers but they have shown us nothing. Maybe it is just me but in her position, I would be constantly worried about my grandkid and would at least express that worry.

I admit to not being a huge fan of hers. I am glad she stepped up and is parenting Jace in a decent way. (Ignoring the screaming and fights in front of him and the manipulative conversations she has with him for a moment. Overall I think she is a stable and loving presence in his life.) But Jenelle is her creation, in part. She does not get all of the blame but she gets some of it, for sure. 

How do we know she doesn't express concern?  She isn't on the show all that much, and we only see a small handful of the interactions, and typically MTV chooses the drama encounters to show us (with Jenelle)--they don't often show her regular day to day conversations and activities.  It is a far stretch to say she doesn't express concern when we hardly see her on the show.

She probably worries about Jenelle and her children all of the time.  We have seen how upset she gets about their relationship and how she brings men into her life that only make things worse.

[CofCinci]

5 minutes ago, alexa said:

How do we know she doesn't express concern?  She isn't on the show all that much, and we only see a small handful of the interactions, and typically MTV chooses the drama encounters to show us (with Jenelle)--they don't often show her regular day to day conversations and activities.  It is a far stretch to say she doesn't express concern when we hardly see her on the show.

She probably worries about Jenelle and her children all of the time.  We have seen how upset she gets about their relationship and how she brings men into her life that only make things worse.

She expresses concern. Each time she appears in family court, each time a parenting eval is completed -- those reports about Jenelle's parenting are made to mandated reporters -- and investigated.  Babs isn't sitting on her ass or out playing with ATVs. She works full-time at Walmart, takes Jace to Boy Scouts, therapy, school etc.  

I'm surprised by anti-Barb posts because she is the only anchor in Jace's life and she takes her role seriously.  Oh hai Janelle. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by CofCinci

[alexa]

8 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

She expresses concern. Each time she appears in family court, each time a parenting eval is completed -- those reports about Jenelle's parenting are made to mandated reporters -- and investigated.  Babs isn't sitting on her ass or out playing with ATVs. She works full-time at Walmart, takes Jace to Boy Scouts, therapy, school etc.  

I'm surprised by anti-Barb posts because she is the only anchor in Jace's life and she takes her role seriously.  Oh hai Janelle. 

I agree.  

[leighroda]

I'm not sure how Barb is getting blamed, I get that she was less than an ideal mother, and taking Jace doesn't make her a saint, but as far as Kaiser is concerned, she has no access to him, she probably sees this as we do, she doesn't know the address (which confuses me a little because she's been to the land, but I guess she just doesn't know the actual literal address) she's likely exhausted her options as far as law enforcement/cps through her fighting about Jace,  there really isn't much else she can do. 

I wish someone could lock Jenelle in a room and not let her out until she realizes/admits Barb did not "steal" Jace.

[lilmarysunshine]

1 hour ago, alexa said:

How do we know she doesn't express concern?  She isn't on the show all that much, and we only see a small handful of the interactions, and typically MTV chooses the drama encounters to show us (with Jenelle)--they don't often show her regular day to day conversations and activities.  It is a far stretch to say she doesn't express concern when we hardly see her on the show.

She probably worries about Jenelle and her children all of the time.  We have seen how upset she gets about their relationship and how she brings men into her life that only make things worse.

The same way we all assume Jenelle and David don't have story time every day with Kaiser - because we don't see it. She also has a voice outside of what MTV shows.

[lilmarysunshine]

36 minutes ago, leighroda said:

I'm not sure how Barb is getting blamed, I get that she was less than an ideal mother, and taking Jace doesn't make her a saint, but as far as Kaiser is concerned, she has no access to him, she probably sees this as we do, she doesn't know the address (which confuses me a little because she's been to the land, but I guess she just doesn't know the actual literal address) she's likely exhausted her options as far as law enforcement/cps through her fighting about Jace,  there really isn't much else she can do. 

I wish someone could lock Jenelle in a room and not let her out until she realizes/admits Barb did not "steal" Jace.

I am not blaming her for Kaiser's treatment. I am just surprised by her reaction (or lack of one) to it and what comes across to me as an apathetic attitude towards his situation. 

[DangerousMinds]

In Kail's defense (yikes!), haven't ALL the girls had relationships (even a marriage, in Jenelle's case) that were never even mentioned on this show?

[Christina87]

1 hour ago, alexa said:

How do we know she doesn't express concern?  She isn't on the show all that much, and we only see a small handful of the interactions, and typically MTV chooses the drama encounters to show us (with Jenelle)--they don't often show her regular day to day conversations and activities.  It is a far stretch to say she doesn't express concern when we hardly see her on the show.

She probably worries about Jenelle and her children all of the time.  We have seen how upset she gets about their relationship and how she brings men into her life that only make things worse.

I think she does care about him, but is distancing him to some degree to protect herself emotionally. Also, jenelle gets mad over everything. Didn't barb say something like, "nice haircut, kaiser" and jenelle flipped out?

[ReadMeLattice]

On a lighter note, my husband came in while I was watching a Chelsea scene and said "whoa, didn't expect that voice!" when he heard Cole. Sometimes it almost sounds like he's imitating Chelsea's voice. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Lm2162

[HooHooHoo]

I am seriously concerned that this is the best Jenelle could pretend to be a mom. What must it be like when MTV is not there?  She wants us to believe that she is a loving mom, but the truth shines through loud and clear. It is all about Jenelle and what she wants and how she feels. 

[lilmarysunshine]

2 hours ago, CofCinci said:

She expresses concern. Each time she appears in family court, each time a parenting eval is completed -- those reports about Jenelle's parenting are made to mandated reporters -- and investigated.  Babs isn't sitting on her ass or out playing with ATVs. She works full-time at Walmart, takes Jace to Boy Scouts, therapy, school etc.  

I'm surprised by anti-Barb posts because she is the only anchor in Jace's life and she takes her role seriously.  Oh hai Janelle. 

We are talking about Kaiser, not Jace. 

[GreatKazu]

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

In Kail's defense (yikes!), haven't ALL the girls had relationships (even a marriage, in Jenelle's case) that were never even mentioned on this show?

Did they result in a pregnancy that was being hidden from the camera during the reunion show and the show itself?  I mean, who cares about a dick of the week if he/she is not around. We don't care about Kail's girlfriend that she was dating there for a while because it was just a temporary fuck buddy. Having a child with a guy is a whole different ball of wax. Jenelle's short marriage was mentioned in length on the show. We heard about her abortion and the divorce. She already hooked up with Nathan at that point and that relationship was the focus. 

1 hour ago, Christina87 said:

I think she does care about him, but is distancing him to some degree to protect herself emotionally. Also, jenelle gets mad over everything. Didn't barb say something like, "nice haircut, kaiser" and jenelle flipped out?

Yes. Barb can't say anything without Jenelle lashing out.

Quote

 But Jenelle is her creation, in part. She does not get all of the blame but she gets some of it, for sure. 

Why does there need to be blame rather than looking at the situation as a whole and have an understanding as to what happened in that home for all involved, not just Jenelle?  I hope I am not coming off condescending.  

Jenelle wasn't the only one in that home dealing with dysfunction, violence, and all that comes with DV. If blame needs to be assigned, let's put it where it belongs - on Jenelle's father. Anyone who knows about DV knows it can involve threats, fear, emotional and verbal abuse as well as physical violence. People come away from those kind of situations with PTSD and a host of other issues. I can be sympathetic to Barb, Jenelle, and her siblings for what they endured, but at a certain point all that boo-hooing Jenelle does falls on deaf ears because she uses it as a crutch and excuse.

Barb was a victim of DV. She is now moving forward in life and is still having to deal with an adult child who is not responsible. Let's look at Jenelle and ask each other how many times has she ever said "thank you" to her mother for all she has done for her. I am not hearing Jenelle show any emotion or reaching out to her mother and showing any ounce of concern for her mother and what she has to deal with on a daily. I am not seeing Jenelle talking about how concerned she is for the woman who took on a son at her age while working at a job full-time.

I certainly don't know if Barb is purposely distancing herself from Kaiser, as you pointed out we don't see everything, which I agree with. Personally, I don't view it as her being uncaring or not worried. I am sure Barb is worried day and night about Jenelle, Kaiser, and Ensley. When Nathan and Jenelle kept her from Nathan, what could she have done? Even now, UBT and Jenelle are keeping her from Ensley. 

Overall, I see it as how people deal with addicts - they just remove themselves from the situation and let the pieces fall where they may. Barb has likely reached her rock bottom with Jenelle and as much as it pains her, she knows she can't control her adult children. Any therapist will tell a parent that you can't force your kids to do anything they don't want to do. Jenelle doesn't want Barb around Kaiser. As we heard on the reunion last year, she was acting paranoid and claiming Barb and Nathan were in cahoots. She may be back on drugs and having delusional thoughts that Barb and Nathan are conspiring together to get Kaiser from her. With all of that, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that Barb is just keeping her distance from Kaiser. I wouldn't be surprised if Nathan is allowing Barb to see Kaiser without Jenelle's knowledge. Who knows. I just don't see Barb as being a cold and uncaring grandmother. The only dark heart here is Jenelle. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by GreatKazu

[lilmarysunshine]

There was no violent husband around when Barbara was letting Jenelle's boyfriend spend the night, in her room, when she was in high school. She has made some terrible choices as a parent and if we are going to explain away her choices because she was a victim of DV, then why doesn't Jenelle get away with it because she tries as recently as this week?

And the only one we hear Barb complaining about Jenelle trying to take away from her is Jace. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by lilmarysunshine

[GreatKazu]

30 minutes ago, lilmarysunshine said:

There was no violent husband around when Barbara was letting Jenelle's boyfriend spend the night, in her room, when she was in high school. She has made some terrible choices as a parent and if we are going to explain away her choices because she was a victim of DV, then why doesn't Jenelle get away with it because she tries as recently as this week?

Parents certainly make bad mistakes all the time. Some worse than others. It is called parenting not sainthood. It is why I did comment Barb is to blame for how she talked to her kids in another thread as I was pointing out how Jenelle speaks to Kaiser reminds me of a few moments where Barb criticized Jace for accidents. The difference is, Barb would own it an apologize. Jenelle never owns her shit. 

Knowing Jenelle, and we certainly do know her pretty well, she is one who is going to do what she wants, when she wants and how often she wants. Barb likely felt it was better to have Jenelle in her home under her roof with her boyfriend than to have her out on the streets or in some rathole house with skeevy people. Just like some people feel it is better if their kids smoke pot or drink in their presence than out on the streets with their friends. It is not how I parented my kids, but it is pretty common. I just witnessed that a few weeks ago at a graduation party. 

I wasn't explaining away anything other than pointing out IF BLAME is going to be doled out, Barb is not at fault for being a victim of DV. Her kids are not at fault for the situation they were in. The toxic environment they were living under falls on the abuser. All that happened in that house plays a huge part in how those kids turned out. It affected Barb as much as it affected the kids. If Jenelle was just born an asshole, why does blame need to be put on someone? And if it does, why not put it on her dad? If Jenelle has mental issues that is the responsibility of Jenelle to tend to her mental health since she is an adult and earns her own money.  Perhaps Barb did her best for her kids, but Jenelle never got over not having her dad around and she takes it out on her mother.  I am not about going back in time and figuring who needs to be assigned blame. I try to understand the situation as a whole. Any blame should be assigned to the adult who earns her own money and refuses to do anything to better her life and stop putting blame on others. As someone else pointed out on one of the other threads a week ago, at what point does the finger-pointing stop and when does accountability begin? 

Edited July 20, 2017 by GreatKazu

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Even with the abuse and neglect we saw this week on TV, there's really no chance CPS would take Kaiser from Jenelle or a court would do that and give Barb custody if she tried. Kaiser's physical needs are apparently being met, and dragging him or being rough with him isn't the kind of abuse CPS/the courts get involved in. I'm sure there's worse abuse/neglect than what we saw, but there would really have to be much more abuse/neglect to get the courts/CPS to take Kaiser from Jenelle. Sad truth. But CPS is so underfunded and understaffed that the abuse/neglect nearly has to kill a child before they'll get involved. And emotional abuse is practically ignored.

[ReadMeLattice]

3 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

 Barb likely felt it was better to have Jenelle in her home under her roof with her boyfriend than to have her out on the streets or in some rathole house with skeevy people.

She learned later though: 

"Have fun sleepin in the street, with ya Booooyyyyfrrrieenddd"

Can't think of Babs without that and "high, high, ya both high" and "well Jenelle, I seen ya with Kieffa"

Edited July 20, 2017 by Lm2162

[GreatKazu]

Just now, Lm2162 said:

She learned later though: 

"Have fun sleepin in the street, with ya Booooyyyyfrrrieenddd"

Yep. Tough love. 

[ReadMeLattice]

2 minutes ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

Even with the abuse and neglect we saw this week on TV, there's really no chance CPS would take Kaiser from Jenelle or a court would do that and give Barb custody if she tried. Kaiser's physical needs are apparently being met, and dragging him or being rough with him isn't the kind of abuse CPS/the courts get involved in. I'm sure there's worse abuse/neglect than what we saw, but there would really have to be much more abuse/neglect to get the courts/CPS to take Kaiser from Jenelle. Sad truth. But CPS is so underfunded and understaffed that the abuse/neglect nearly has to kill a child before they'll get involved. And emotional abuse is practically ignored.

This is very true and a good point. While people mention CPS a lot, including me when I get frustrated at what I see, the purpose of CPS is really to keep families together if they can at all. Being a "bad parent" doesn't, and likely shouldn't, get your kids taken away...people grow and change and have various issues and they still have the right to their kids. I don't personally think Jenelle/Her Baby Daddies have that right, but that would be difficult to prove as long as he's eating, clean, and physically safe. CPS can't be subjective. You can't take a kid away from a parent for, for example, being dumb or racist. That would be a slippery slope to hundreds of thousands of kids being removed. 

[ghoulina]

13 hours ago, FozzyBear said:

Maybe. The thought hadn't occurred to me, but sure, why not? It is Janelle after all. I think mostly she's terrified of actually being responsible for one of her children for even 5 minutes, but she could have also wanted to party.

She is also insanely jealous and doesn't want to let her men out of her site for a minute. I bet she assumed that as soon as she and Kaiser were tucked away in a hotel room, David would invite a bunch of strippers over to entertain them while they hauled furniture around. 

[lilmarysunshine]

I am not even saying CPS. Hell....a start would be with "I am really sad I don't have a relationship with Kaiser. I really worry about him." His name hardly comes out of her mouth. It is all and only about Jace for her, it seems. And I agree that at least she cares for him. That is something.

I just feel badly for him. That child has no one but a bunch of strangers lamenting his situation. Of course primary blame goes to his "parents" but his extended family does not seem too concerned, either.

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

In Kail's defense (yikes!), haven't ALL the girls had relationships (even a marriage, in Jenelle's case) that were never even mentioned on this show?

Leah had T.R. Dues, but he didn't get her pregnant. Chelsea maybe had some mystery dudes before Cole, but they weren't serious enough to warrant attention....and didn't get her pregnant. Jenelle's non-shown guy DID get her pregnant - but she aborted the baby. And, also, I think he (Coatland, right?) simply wasn't shown because that was back before they filmed non-stop. I think she just dated him during an "off" time. I certainly never got the impression she was TRYING to hide him. Jenelle could care less. 

 

1 hour ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

Even with the abuse and neglect we saw this week on TV, there's really no chance CPS would take Kaiser from Jenelle or a court would do that and give Barb custody if she tried. Kaiser's physical needs are apparently being met, and dragging him or being rough with him isn't the kind of abuse CPS/the courts get involved in. I'm sure there's worse abuse/neglect than what we saw, but there would really have to be much more abuse/neglect to get the courts/CPS to take Kaiser from Jenelle. Sad truth. But CPS is so underfunded and understaffed that the abuse/neglect nearly has to kill a child before they'll get involved. And emotional abuse is practically ignored.

This is so true. And so sad. 

[MaggieG]

5 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

You're right, he still has a chance to get adopted. I'm not holding my breath but that would be the best situation honestly. 

I do think Jenelle has a special talent of making even the biggest pieces of shit look relatively normal compared to her. Kieffer was trash but I was always on his side in their fights. Nathan is disgusting and sometimes I want him to win in their battles. David is horrible, but I found myself almost rooting for him in this argument. He was at least attempting to make some semblance of a rational decision about getting the keys, keeping Kaiser out of the way, etc. My husband doesn't have any of David's issues but if I had pulled what Jenelle did during that moving day he definitely would have expressed more impatience. Get the damn keys, Jenelle! 

That was so stupid! Jenelle said the woman was going to be there at the office at 8 to give her the keys. Why the heck wasn't Jenelle there at 8 to get the damn keys? Did she really expect the woman to wait around for 8 hours?

[ReadMeLattice]

1 minute ago, MaggieG said:

That was so stupid! Jenelle said the woman was going to be there at the office at 8 to give her the keys. Why the heck wasn't Jenelle there at 8 to get the damn keys? Did she really expect the woman to wait around for 8 hours?

That was truly bizarre. She had to go to a freaking hotel and sit around with her child and relax while her fiance and friends moved all her stuff. As douchey as David is, that plan made the most sense--you're pregnant, get the kid out from underfoot, get the keys to the new place, and wait at a hotel. That sounds perfectly pleasant to me. Order food in and watch TV. Jesus Christ. 

[Birdee]

Yes, she did, because she is the most special snowflake who ever snowflaked and everything should revolve around her. Can you imagine the wrath though if she had to wait even 5 minutes for someone to show up and give her the key?

[CaliforniaLove]

Quote

 She also has a voice outside of what MTV shows.

I agree with this 100%...she's also a degenerate piece of shit all over Twitter, Instagram & Facebook as well!

[Birdee]

21 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

That was truly bizarre. She had to go to a freaking hotel and sit around with her child and relax while her fiance and friends moved all her stuff. As douchey as David is, that plan made the most sense--you're pregnant, get the kid out from underfoot, get the keys to the new place, and wait at a hotel. That sounds perfectly pleasant to me. Order food in and watch TV. Jesus Christ. 

I thought the same thing. If we were moving and my husband told me to take the baby and go to a hotel while he packed and moved everything, we'd be in the truck and down the road before he could break out the packing tape. I don't know what Jenelle has against logic, but it's like she'd rather be miserable than make one sound decision. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Birdee

[SPLAIN]

16 minutes ago, CaliforniaLove said:

I agree with this 100%...she's also a degenerate piece of shit all over Twitter, Instagram & Facebook as well!

Barb is a degenerate piece of shit all over social media?

I admit, I don't really check out the social media of these people all too often, but what I have seen and read (thanks to those who post photos and links to their pages) I don't recall Barb being that way on her pages. She hardly posts. If I am wrong, I apologize.

 

4 hours ago, lilmarysunshine said:

The same way we all assume Jenelle and David don't have story time every day with Kaiser - because we don't see it. She also has a voice outside of what MTV shows.

Judgments and opinions are based on how they interact with their children. All the times we have watched Jenelle with her kids, for the most part she is annoyed, tired, bitching, complaining, lazy and overall has no patience at all. We haven't watched her interact with her children the way Leah, Kail, Chelsea, Gary, Jo, and the rest of the cast members act with their kids. Jenelle has been this way since her teen years. Nothing has changed. Jenelle has given plenty of reasons for judgments about her to be accurate. UBT as well.

Barb's world is her and Jace. As I noted above, I don't see much activity from Barb as far as social media is concerned and when there has been activity, I don't see her using it a whole lot to dish out the kind of stuff that Jenelle does on a regular basis. As for her voice, is she supposed to share non-existent photos of Kaiser and herself on her social media? Is she supposed to give interviews to express how she is concerned about Kaiser and Ensley?  She has her hands full with herself and Jace. She also works.  I will cut her some slack for not reporting to social media and dishing out her drama like the rest of these non-mutherfucking-factor girls do every damn hour of the day.

6 minutes ago, Birdee said:

I thought the same thing. If we were moving and my husband told me to take the baby and go to a hotel while he packed and moved everything, we'd be in the truck and down the road before he could break out the packing tape. I don't know what Jenelle has against logic, but it's like she'd rather be miserable than make one sound decision. 

Logic and common sense do not exist in Jenelle's world.

Edited July 20, 2017 by SPLAIN

[CaliforniaLove]

Oh, I was talking about Jenelle. 

[Christina87]

I would adopt Kaiser in a heartbeat! He is so cute! The fact that jenelle has two cute, healthy sons who love her despite how she treats them means nothing to her. The only child she loves is endtable, and we'll see how that goes when she gets old enough to act out! I wouldn't fault jenelle if she had had jace and realized parenting wasn't her thing, but trying her best during his visitation and not having other children. The fact that she keeps having kids just to cement her place with these losers is seriously strange. I can't wait until she finally finds the loser who can't stand / can't afford kids, although unfortunately at this point that loser would never date her with her litter in tow. I think it's strange enough that every loser she's met has wanted a family so badly. Before I met my boyfriend, I had the hardest time finding a guy who was open to kids! Usually they said it was too expensive, and these were decent guys with banking and law jobs. Jenelle specializes in finding losers with no money and nothing going for them that want the modern day Brady Bunch. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Christina87

[BitterApple]

23 minutes ago, Birdee said:

I thought the same thing. If we were moving and my husband told me to take the baby and go to a hotel while he packed and moved everything, we'd be in the truck and down the road before he could break out the packing tape. I don't know what Jenelle has against logic, but it's like she'd rather be miserable than make one sound decision. 

Jenelle's just 50% complete idiot and 50% lazy ass bitch. She could've taken Kaiser to the playground early, let him run his energy off and that sat him down in the hotel room with a Happy Meal and a movie. Instead she lets him get in the way, ignores him until he starts acting out and then FINALLY goes to a hotel late at night when he's tired and cranky. She's a real genius, that one. 

[teapot]

8 minutes ago, Christina87 said:

I. The fact that she keeps having kids just to cement her place with these losers is seriously strange. I can't wait until she finally finds the loser who can't stand / can't afford kids, although unfortunately at this point that loser would never date her with her litter in tow.

are you guys forgetting that Matt's single?  I'm sure he's opportunistic and desperate enough to pitch a show for her three kids and his eleventy million kids

[guilfoyleatpp]

My kid is 6 and I read to him most nights. If I was being filmed for a teen parenting show and I'd already gotten a ton of heat for being lazy or a jackass in general, you bet your sweet bubby that I'd be telling him to go pick out a couple books. We would go to the library and story time and all kinds of kid appropriate things. Library story time makes me slightly crazy after the first book is over (everyone loses their attention), but I think I could fake 25 minutes for the cameras.

Also, I just read something that said Kaiser is 3.  Holy shit.  I legit thought he was 2.  Yikes.  3 and a bottle. 3 and sleeps in a crib. OMG Jenelle's neglect is completely stunting his development. I just can't with that bitch. Poor, poor Kaiser.  :(

Edited July 20, 2017 by guilfoyleatpp

[BitterApple]

5 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

In Kail's defense (yikes!), haven't ALL the girls had relationships (even a marriage, in Jenelle's case) that were never even mentioned on this show?

They have yes, thankfully Kail was the only one dumb enough to get pregnant. If Chris doesn't want his name mentioned, then in fairness to Kail, there's not much she can do, but in terms of the show, it's hard to work around a pregnancy without talking about the relationship. In that sense, I can understand why the producers would want details even if Kail can't specifically say "Chris Lopez" on air. 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Christina87 said:

I would adopt Kaiser in a heartbeat! He is so cute! The fact that jenelle has two cute, healthy sons who love her despite how she treats them means nothing to her. The only child she loves is endtable, and we'll see how that goes when she gets old enough to act out! I wouldn't fault jenelle if she had had jace and realized parenting wasn't her thing, but trying her best during his visitation and not having other children. The fact that she keeps having kids just to cement her place with these losers is seriously strange. I can't wait until she finally finds the loser who can't stand / can't afford kids, although unfortunately at this point that loser would never date her with her litter in tow. I think it's strange enough that every loser she's met has wanted a family so badly. Before I met my boyfriend, I had the hardest time finding a guy who was open to kids! Usually they said it was too expensive, and these were decent guys with banking and law jobs. Jenelle specializes in finding losers with no money and nothing going for them that want the modern day Brady Bunch. 

That's because the guys you were dating probably intended to PARENT and support any offspring they happened to have. The likes of Jenelle's loser boyfriends just want trophies and evidence of their fertility. Look at Amber's Matt?!!

[toodywoody]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Jenelle's just 50% complete idiot and 50% lazy ass bitch. She could've taken Kaiser to the playground early, let him run his energy off and that sat him down in the hotel room with a Happy Meal and a movie. Instead she lets him get in the way, ignores him until he starts acting out and then FINALLY goes to a hotel late at night when he's tired and cranky. She's a real genius, that one. 

She is more than that. Any time someone says something that might be rational or just plain out the right thing to do, she flips her shit. It is like this bitch cannot think of anything other than pizza, dick and bitching at someone. Why in the hell would you have a toddler around when you are moving fucking furniture? And she wasn't even watching him, she was too busy crying in the bathroom because David wasn't paying attention to her. Grow the fuck up already and take care of your fucking kid, get him out of the way before he gets hurt. Or better yet fucking leave and go have fun with your son while you boyfriend does it all. She has to make EVERYTHING harder than it has to be.