S03.E20: Kansas

[formerlyfreedom]

With Mary Margaret in labor and due to give birth at any moment, the residents of Storybrooke go on high alert in an attempt to ensure that Zelena doesn't try to steal her newborn baby for use in her ultimate game plan to turn back time and change her destiny -- while obliterating Regina's existence. Meanwhile, in the land of Oz of the past, Glinda tries to convince Zelena to fight her evil tendencies and join her and her sister witches as a protector of Oz. But the appearance of a young girl from Kansas could turn out to be her undoing.

 

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw0W3r_U2nc

[CinnamonCat]

All hail Regina the Righteous.

Blech.

An oddly paced episode, for sure. Some wonderful moments in there, mostly when they were all admiring the baby. Dr. Whale awkwardly falling on the couch made me giggle.

The whole deal with Emma losing her magic in order to save Killian felt contrived even for a Captain Swan shipper like myself, so I can only imagine how hard were the regular viewers rolling their eyes. Although, David convincing Emma to take Hook with her was amusing.

I am starting to hate Rumple the way I hated S2 Regina. You have to be a gigantic ass to emotionally manipulate Belle. Not that I am a fan of hers, but still. She's been through enough.

I bet Dorothy will turn out to be either Hook's long lost aunt or Henry's true love.

Wow! I'm so glad Henry's back to believing and ordering his family around! /sarcasm

I really liked that the whole melting thing turned out to be Zelena's plan -- a nice nod to the book/musical "Wicked", there.

Do you think Regina tried to come and see the baby, but the Charmings were like, "Yeah, we get you're a hero now and all, but better safe than sorry"?
 

Edited May 5, 2014 by CinnamonCat

[Crimson Belle]

7:43 p.m. CST, mass vomiting ensues.

Rumple is a nasty conniving fellow.

[FormerMod-a1]

Emma lost her powers so Regina could be the hero.  OK.  And what was with that evil smirk Regina had as she put the brooch in her vault?  It was like she was up to something and not just glad to rid Zelena of her powers.  With the seeming resolution so quick, I knew another shoe was going to drop, but killing Zelena "freed" her so that her time spell would still work?  Even without the baby, the gold straw/brains and half sword?  Or is something else going to happen?

[SimoneS]

Rumpelstlitskin tricking Belle was the only thing that I liked about the episode. He is the only character who is written consistently. He is the only character whose actions make a lick of sense. Unlike the irrational Regina redemption, loving Bae and Belle does not make Rumpel magically good or even redeem him even though Belle wants to believe it.

 

Another spell, another reset, another world. Know what, I think that I am close to done with this show. I am tired of the repetitiousness.

Edited May 5, 2014 by SimoneS

[Worsel]

I really enjoyed Colin's acting in this episode.  So much emotion conveyed without saying anything.

I am relieved that Rumple did not remain a completely redeemed hero; he is much more entertaining as a dark one who is at times conflicted (and unpredictable).  It makes sense that he would return to being dark and take revenge after losing his son.  His son has always come first for him and it does not surprise me that he would still take precedence over true love.  You would think Belle would be less naive about Rumple's personality and motivations by now but I guess she serves as an example of love being blind.

[juice318]

What the heck was that?! I found this episode as aggravatingly frustrating as last week's was satisfying.

[Happy to be here]

I like NotEvil Queen Regina.  I really like her storyline this season.   If evil is made and not born then so is good.  

 

Hey looky here.  The Charmings may actually get to raise a kid.  Good for them.

 

Considering the main story was about Dorothy I thought she was not used very well.  Is she even in Storybrook?    Maybe next week?

 

Don't really care about Rumpy and Belle.  One way or another don't really care.

[FormerMod-a1]

I did like that Regina mentioned "all the people they've killed" to Rumple, even if nothing will come of it.  And was it Robin that asked if the monkeys might be their friends?

[Mari]

Why did they have to dress Glinda to look like Dolly Parton in a winter special? 

 

Why did every character have to become completely useless and 40% more stupid to make Regina more wonderful by comparison?  None of the other characters could even help? 

 

Why did we have to sit through everyone going on and on about how fabulous Regina is?  (And Baby Charmings going to end up Reginald Miller Nolan, isn't he?  Blech. Blech. Blech.)

 

If defeating Zelena meant that her magic was undone, why didn't Emma get hers back?  How does that make sense?

 

Well, Belle should be happy.  She not only got her Dark One back, but he came back with some extra-shiny darkness for her to love, just like the rest of it.

 

Wow, did I hate a lot of this episode.

[Heather Lynn]

Emma is starting to seriously bug me with the constant NYC stuff. She's one of my favorites, which is saying a lot considering I've loathed every character Jennifer Morrison has ever played at uncomfortable levels, but get over it. IMO, she's basically giving up on them the way she always believed they gave up on her at birth. Also, what made her think Henry wouldn't want to stay with his other mom and the rest of the people he grew up with.

Don't really care about Regina's good magic, like that Rumple is still a baddie (she did kill his son) and agree with others that Belle is an idiot. I still don't really understand the spell at the end so I'll reserve judgement until next week.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Heather Lynn

[BoPeeps]

I actually really liked this one! Spoiled sneak peeks and all, it was entertaining. When I step back from all the message board drammmmmmaa, I usually do enjoy the episodes more. snork, and yet here I am.

 

Rumple is baccccck dearie :) And about bloody time. But his pretty little fiancee' isn't going to think much of his good Haaaaaht when she finds out he double crossed her to murder than winey biatttchhh, who didn't go out with enough pain for me. (heh) Or did she totally go out? Maybe she is not green anymore but tar pit black goo in the Dark One's purgatory. Anyway, Oz was a disappointingly dumb set up, again. Glad it is over. Dorothy...huh? What??? WHY???

 

I too, enjoyed Hook. His visuals are always so fine, and that voice is enough to (never mindddd , some things must stay private even on the Internet!) I prefer his hair all mussed but it seems as he becomes sweeter, his hair gets pushed back ala David!! And David redeemed himself from the jerkbrain he was last week playing Mary Margaret's yes boy in attacking Hook. He came through for the bromance!!!

 

Hook's loyalty to Emma really is...hard to fault. He wasn't kidding when he said he was in it for the long haul. She beats him up emotionally all the time but..."Killian, come back to me" Twice. Oh yeah.

 

I am even cutting Emma, the Stoic Ice Queen some slack. even though her meaness is wearing thin, I think it is about to crack. Really, this time. Honest. They are fluffing her hair more as well. And short skirts again. But those heels. Honestly, Belle could barely walk in hers before falling in the hospital corrider and Emma was tottering precariously as she walked through the woods to find Zelena...and in the hospital hailway afterward.

 

Regina a hero is doable for me as well. And after her little *I will crush your heart* sisterly talk with the doomed psycho in the jail, I feel her kind of hero is going to have plentttty of edge to it!

 

I dropped an observation in the Spoilery thread about the promo.

Edited May 5, 2014 by BoPeeps

[SilvaVocat]

Regina is a hero. We know this because everybody told her (/the audience) so. And she believed it just enough that she could channel all the light magic to defeat Zelena, but not enough that the strings of EVIL didn't start up as she locked Zelena's pendant away in the vault of EVIL. And now she knows how to channel the white magic, so no one will ever be able to defeat her.

 

Except Rumple, who loves Belle, but not so much that he doesn't deceive her to gain his freedom.

 

Also, Emma, the most magically white magical creature ever can just up and lose her magic while she's in the process of doing good.

 

The problem with magic, of course, is that if Emma were actually the most magically white magical creature ever, she could just defeat the bad guys with the power of love and there'd be no story. (Or so many story tellers think.) So instead we have two bad guys who are apparently infinitely powerful and no one doing magic for the good guys. I'm sure that will end well for the good guys.

[Camera One]

I'm just re-posting from TWOP (only a repeat of the posts from over there).

 

For a climatic episode, it was surprisingly unengaging and boring throughout. 

The Storybrooke stuff felt completely anticlimatic.  The whole sequence with Zelena walking around the hospital and then taking the baby was drawn-out and not very interesting, considering it was a foregone conclusion that no one had a real plan and they might as well have placed pink flamingos along her route instead of Robin Hood and the band of useless, or Belle with her killer heels. 

I don't mind Regina gaining good magic, but to completely sideline Emma and basically make her a dumb stepping stone in Regina's journey to redemption?  Emma choosing to save one person, over all the lives obliterated with Zelena changing the past, was just stupid, and it wasn't even done in a romantically satisfying way.  The whole setup to make Regina the hero was a complete disservice to Emma as a character, basically making her an afterthought. 

The flashbacks were alright, but not that great either.  I just can't stand watching idiotic characters, and they made Glinda and the council of witches as dumb as they come.  It didn't help that Dorothy wasn't really that charismatic... not that they gave her much to work with.

So David's "soft touch" with the Winged Monkey was to cut its head off?  Again, huh?

What a disappointing episode all 'round.  Even the "surprise" with Rumple killing Zelena was meh.  I don't think he stabbed her with the dagger. He froze her like he did Henry in that dream sequence from last year, and then smashed the porcelain with his dagger.

 

Why did Emma leave the hospital again?  They knew Zelena would need to go there to grab Snow's baby.  Why not set up a trap where some people could distract Zelena (maybe Emma and Regina could have setup decoy Snow and Charmings in every hospital room), allowing Emma to zap her with light magic, and then Regina could grab the pendant and/or Rumple's dagger?   Emma's light magic isn't enough, and Regina realizes that she could emit light from her hands too.  But Zelena had imposed a giant triangle placing the heart, the sword and the brain in three corners of the town with the hospital at the forth corner, so the spell went through anyway.  Same ending without making everyone seem like idiots.

 

With this episode, Emma's only purpose in all of 3B was to bring Henry to Storybrooke so Regina can get in touch with her inner light. 

Meanwhile, I'm sure the Blue Fairy can breathe a sigh of relief now that Glinda has taken her place as the Dumbest Magic User Ever.  If this was a cop show, Glinda would go to the prison, find some mentally unstable violent offender, offer them a gun to "concentrate their powers" for good, and then set them free in their very own precinct to look after.  And then after that psychotic person tries to kill an innocent girl, she would reminisce that they "used to be friends".

[ActualSize]

Where did Emma's magic go, into the ether? She's ready to get the heck out of there, and they're all pretty traumatized, but that should set them wondering soon. If the flying monkeys are now walking giants, why hasn't her magic returned? Was that really Regina who locked away the pendant? Why did Zelena turn into porcelain and crumble when Rumpel stabbed her? Inqiring minds....will have to wait a week, I guess.

Edited May 5, 2014 by ActualSize

[P2C2E]

Still waiting for a resolution to The Disappearing Door...

[thuganomics85]

So, that's really it?  Basically, all this stuff about Emma being the savior, was just a misdirect, and the true savior was Regina?  Looks like it, with her using "light magic" and defeating Zelena with ease.  Seriously, Zelena went out like a chump.  Peter Pan put up a much bigger fighter.  Whatever, this was just another city in the "Regina Redemption Tour", where all bad guys fall at her feet, and everyone else  has to be idiots.

Seriously, what was Emma/Hook's plan?  They're were just going to waltz over to Zelena and knock her out?  Doesn't feel me with optimism, guys.  Storybrooke's only attempts at the hospital was a protection spell and Robin Hood and the Merry Men?  It might have been futile no matter what, but if there was ever a time to at least get Tinkerbell and Blue Fairy over to work some magic, that would have been it.

But, this could all be for naught, since Rumpel just fucked everything over.  Yeah, this man ain't ever going to let something like his son dying, not be answered, consequences be damned.  Of course, Belle will probably forgive him if she ever finds out, because she's an idiot like that. But, I wished they'd use this to make him flat-out evil, but I have a feeling he'll be getting his own "Redemption Tour" soon.

Even Glinda proves to be quite the dumbass back in Oz.

Oh, Once Upon A Time!  I can't quit you.  It really is the cast; which is universally good, IMO; that make me look past all the dumb character moments, plot-holes, and silly stories.

[Joystickenvy]

Well.....at least Snow and Belle have competition for the title of "least intelligent resident of storybrooke."

Charming & Emma join the ranks of the colossally stupid by deciding to drag along the guy with the cursed lips of magic removal to a fight with a witch that can only be defeated by Emma's magic. What could possibly go wrong?

At first I thought Regina also wanted in on the competition by giving the Dark One his dagger back, but the evil music suggests she probably was complicit in the whole Belle fake out plan to kill Zelena to begin with. I guess the "light magic" is pretty easily fooled.

I guess next season Emma will warp back in time and devise a wacky plan to get her parents to fall in love after she accidentally causes Charming to have the hots for her.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm glad Rumpel killed Zelena. I am so tired of her. I don't care about her being related to Regina, her need for vengeance, or any of her back story. I also don't understand why she was having Rumple do simple things like hold Hook underwater with magic. She's supposed to be this badass powerful witch and she's having Rumple do crap like that?But I want to know how Rumple is going to react when everyone discovers that Zelena just disappeared. Was he going to admit that he gives no fucks about redemption and wanted to avenge Bae's death? Or was he going to play stupid and give everyone the "oh my, she's gone?" innocent act?

 

I really enjoyed Colin's acting in this episode.  So much emotion conveyed without saying anything.

ITA - he had so many moments where it was clear what he was thinking/feeling when he didn't say a word.  When Emma had to give him mouth to mouth, I thought of Pushing Daisies even though I knew the chances of Emma having a piece of Saran Wrap in her pocket were pretty nil.

 

Emma was pretty harsh with Hook about keeping his cursed lips a secret. Hello, did you not hear him say that Zelena threatened to kill Henry? If he had told Emma the truth and Zelena had killed Henry, Emma never would have forgiven Hook. But because he chose the option where Henry wasn't automatically killed, Emma is still mad because she think it's HER job and her job alone to protect Henry? Ooookay. I'm  glad that David understood that it was just a crappy position for Hook to be in and he did the best that he could to Henry from being killed and to also prevent Emma from losing her magic.

 

Heh, I find it hilarious that Dr. Whale is like the only doctor in the entire hospital who's qualified to do everything: delivering kids, surgery, you name it!

[Mrs OldManBalls]

Heh, I find it hilarious that Dr. Whale is like the only doctor in the entire hospital who's qualified to do everything: delivering kids, surgery, you name it!

 

Maybe his training in the "dark sciences" was more extensive than we realize. 

 

That baby was a chunk! I loved it! 

[Jenniferbug]

I only caught the last 30 minutes or so, but what I saw wasn't interesting enough for me to want to go back and watch the first half. 

 

I thought it was silly of Rumple to give Belle his dagger. Why should he give anyone else control over him? So she can force him to be good? I was glad it was a fake. 

 

Is Zelena really dead? I'm tired of her and couldn't care less about her backstory, but I doubt that's the last of her. 

 

Did the Charmings name the baby yet? 

[bmoore4026]

If Regina's a hero now, does this mean Emma's going to become evil?

[bourbon]

I really hate what they've done to Hook. He used to be fun and sexy, and they've turned him into this depressive hangdog mooning over Emma.  I hate seeing him so mopey over her when she doesn't seem to have any interest in him at all except as a babysitter for her drippy kid.  I get that he's supposedly "in love" with her, but she's so dull and self-righteous, I don't even really get the reasons why he would fall for her. She's just not very nice to him, either, and I'm not sure where all the nastiness comes from, particularly all the times he's helped her and her family. So he didn't tell the truth about the kiss. She has more affection for Regina, who, y'know, just tried to kill her and all. I used to think she was just trying to play hard to get or deny her feelings for him.  I don't know if it's the acting or the writing, but I don't get the sense anymore that Emma is the least bit interested in him.  I used to ship them hard, but damn...after her smug, dismissive treatment of him in this episode, I just don't think i do anymore.  Move on, Hook.  You can do better.

Edited May 5, 2014 by bourbon

[ElectricBoogaloo]

@bourbon  you just described exactly how I felt about Spike and Buffy. I prefer fun quippy devil may care Hook/Spike, not the mopey versions they become when they're reduced to staring at girls who don't even like them and can barely bring themselves to be polite. Guys, when the girl you like is nicer to people she doesn't like, she's just not that into you. Take your sexy guyliner and find someone better who won't give you self righteous lectures about how you're a bad man who does bad things.

Edited May 5, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[mindbird]

I agree that since Greenie is gone, Emma's magic should have come back as well. Actually, I had a thought the Kiss Curse would be neutralized by the True Love Kiss Curse Breaker. Which leaves me hoping, for no good reason, that Emma's magic is tangled up with some remnant Kiss Curse and can only be untangled if they kiss again.

Because poor Hook is starting to look as if he FEELS like cannon fodder. Even Emma saving him at the cost of her magic can't really help him feel better. It was the kind of situation where human beings react emotionally. Emma would have done the same for anyone.

I love OUAT deeply and completely, and the only time I have ever been really disappointed with the writers is this episode. (Well, that whole Neal thing...but they fixed that.) I was accepting of a Snow who was so centered on her pregnancy that she seemed disengaged from everyone but Charming. She almost seemed sedated.

But to have a second baby torn from her arms? And she reacts with just a cryface and some dialogue? This is Snow White, a bandit, a queen, and I don't care if she was still expelling afterbirth, she should have been climbing the walls red-faced-hysterically screaming bloody murder. Charming should have come back to the room with little Prince Emmet to find she had hung herself, or he should have found her locked into a straight-jacket. Or the howls of agony of a genuine nervous breakdown should have been echoing down the hallway to greet him. Or SOMETHING! Speaking even just as a mere viewer, I am grateful they got the baby back in the same episode.

[Mari]

I agree that since Greenie is gone, Emma's magic should have come back as well. Actually, I had a thought the Kiss Curse would be neutralized by the True Love Kiss Curse Breaker. Which leaves me hoping, for no good reason, that Emma's magic is tangled up with some remnant Kiss Curse and can only be untangled if they kiss again.

Because poor Hook is starting to look as if he FEELS like cannon fodder. Even Emma saving him at the cost of her magic can't really help him feel better. It was the kind of situation where human beings react emotionally. Emma would have done the same for anyone.

I love OUAT deeply and completely, and the only time I have ever been really disappointed with the writers is this episode. (Well, that whole Neal thing...but they fixed that.) I was accepting of a Snow who was so centered on her pregnancy that she seemed disengaged from everyone but Charming. She almost seemed sedated.

But to have a second baby torn from her arms? And she reacts with just a cryface and some dialogue? This is Snow White, a bandit, a queen, and I don't care if she was still expelling afterbirth, she should have been climbing the walls red-faced-hysterically screaming bloody murder. Charming should have come back to the room with little Prince Emmet to find she had hung herself, or he should have found her locked into a straight-jacket. Or the howls of agony of a genuine nervous breakdown should have been echoing down the hallway to greet him. Or SOMETHING! Speaking even just as a mere viewer, I am grateful they got the baby back in the same episode.

 

She has Regina's affection, now, and Regina's a hero and supportive.  Like Snow needs more, really.

[MelsW]

From the shallow end of the pool: Why do the costume designers hate Snow? She has been wearing that diarrhea colored sweater for the last two episodes up until she gives birth. Then after she has the baby, they have her in the most heinous looking pink/ribbon nightgown monstrosity. Is Snow supposed to have atrocious taste in clothing or do the costume designers hate Ginnifer Goodwin?

 

I was underwhelmed with this episode. I am OK with Regina being able to tap into light magic to defeat Zelena and I like that Regina gets that being good is a choice. I liked how she said (paraphrasing) that today, she is good. I didn't like that every other character in Storybrooke acted like useless fools in order to have Regina save the day. Emma's plan was what...to walk to Zelena's house and then NOT use magic when she confronts her? It is like every character became as stupid as Belle in this episode, with exception to Regina and Rumple.

 

Speaking of Rumple, I like that he fooled Belle. It is true to character. However, I have no idea what happened at the end there. Rumple turned Zelena to a statue, shattered it with his dagger, then the emerald broach starts smoking and POOF! Now the time travel curse/spell is in action?

Edited May 5, 2014 by MelsW

[ActualSize]

RE: Regina's "light" magic, much was made throughout the episode of various people believing in others. Henry believes Regina has light magic in her - maybe she figured she just had to make Zelena believe it too, and that would be enough to defeat her. That would explain her evil grin after she locked away the pendant. Ooh, lots of pronouns in that sentence, but I hope it makes some sense. Meanwhile, Zelena, who has seen Oz's Book of Shadows, I mean Records, has been playing a really, really long con on all of them. Maybe.

[NCChic]

I just want to know the baby's name. Poor kid can't get named before he's kidnapped and offered up as time travel bait...

[Gel]

Why do the costume designers hate Snow? ... Then after she has the baby, they have her in the most heinous looking pink/ribbon nightgown monstrosity. Is Snow supposed to have atrocious taste in clothing or do the costume designers hate Ginnifer Goodwin?

The only possible explanation for the existence of that nightgown in creation is birth control. I don't know what possessed someone to intentionally combine a peach pink mini floral print with ruffled lace and a twee ribbon tied up into a bow, but please, never do it again. Edited May 6, 2014 by Gel

[shapeshifter]

I just want to know the baby's name. Poor kid can't get named before he's kidnapped and offered up as time travel bait...

Well, on TWoP boards, someone dubbed him Little Prince Snowflake. I'm guessing Neal.

Dr. Hopper should counsel Belle on emotionally battered wife syndrome, or I-married-a-sociopath syndrome, or whatever it's called. Not that she would listen.

[haydensterling]

I can't quit this show.  I watch on Hulu now instead of watching live, because that way I can skip over episodes that I don't care about, but I can't stop watching completely.  It absolutely kills me how poorly written OUaT is, though.  I've never watched a show with shittier writing,  Instead of jumping to another curse/big bad/separation of True Love for this finale and lead in to the next season, what if we got a season of character development, without adding any new faces to the canvas?  Focus on the couples and relationships we have.  Give them greater depth than they have now.  Tie up all the loose ends that are still fucking dangling!  Stop with passing the idiot ball from one person to the next depending how A&E feel w/r/t whoever's their shiny new toy for the week.

 

This episode was so awful.  Just what point does Emma serve?  She's not the Savior any more, and mom and dad have a new baby boy now, also the product of pure love.  Emma looked heartbroken to me.  

 

I loved how depressed Rumple looked when he proposed to Belle--he looked seriously sad, almost like he gets that in asking her this is finally going to be the end of their relationship.  I was overjoyed that Rumple froze or killed or messed with Zelena; please, she's a fucking menace, I don't care about her backstory or her pain, so just get rid of her.

 

I liked Regina's somewhat ambiguous look as she tucked the brooch away. I have no idea what's coming next season since I stepped away from this show when Belle got fridged by turning into Lacey, but the writers need to slow down the whiz bang pow pace of the show and get back to these characters who were initially so fascinating to me.

 

The show needs to stop building up these uber-ultra-villains who are then vanquished in two ticks.  I'll watch to see the Rumbelle 'splashy wedding' go up in smoke, but after that it's back to intermittent views.   

[ShadowFacts]

 

Considering the main story was about Dorothy I thought she was not used very well.  Is she even in Storybrook?    Maybe next week?

 

I'm guessing she never got cursed and sent over to Storybrooke if she was in Oz and Kansas.  But I forget what the rules are for who/from what realms gets transported.  I also thought Dorothy's appearance fell kind of flat, even though the young actress was fine.  Just sort of blah.  Like, okay, we get what an envious witch Zelena is and always will be.  Dorothy was lucky to get out of that crap alive.

[legaleagle53]

I'm guessing she never got cursed and sent over to Storybrooke if she was in Oz and Kansas.  But I forget what the rules are for who/from what realms gets transported. 

 

If you're talking about the original curse, the only apparent rule was that it it brought over only those people whom Regina specifically wanted to bring over (the only exception being anyone who was under Cora's protection-spell dome).  Dorothy wouldn't have been transported by that curse because (a) Regina wouldn't have even known that she existed and (b) she would already have been in our world (i.e., Kansas) when Regina cast the original curse.

 

Similarly, I'm guessing that because Dorothy would already be in our world (albeit some 30 years older than when Zelena sent her back to Kansas), the curse cast by Snow wouldn't have brought her to Storybrooke, either.

[FormerMod-a1]

Actually, the way I understood the original curse was it brought over 1) all people originally from the Fairy Tale Land, even if they were currently in another realm like Jefferson; 2) all people currently *in* Fairy Tale Land even if not originally from there like Dr Whale, and except those protected by the Coradome; and 3) the dead that Regina selected, like her father.

[legaleagle53]

Actually, the way I understood the original curse was it brought over 1) all people originally from the Fairy Tale Land, even if they were currently in another realm like Jefferson; 2) all people currently *in* Fairy Tale Land even if not originally from there like Dr Whale, and except those protected by the Coradome; and 3) the dead that Regina selected, like her father.

 

But there's no evidence that Dr. Whale was actually in Fairy Tale Land at the time the original curse was cast.  Regina specifically stated that the curse brought over only those whom she wanted to bring over, and I do not recall that she only meant that to apply to the dead.

 

To me, Dr. Whale falls under the same category as Jefferson, i.e., someone who was actually brought directly over from his home world, as a particular punishment for his part in scamming Regina out of a heart that she thought was going to be used to resurrect Daniel.

[FormerMod-a1]

I recall that statement being in context of discussing her mother's or father's tomb/casket.  The rest of the story was about the dead person.  It was so long ago, I don't remember the ep name.    Because otherwise there would have been graveyards full of dead people.  Or no dead people.  That there were just 2(?) what she thought was her mom, and her dad meant she had to specifically choose them.

 

It's also the whole reason Fairy Tale Land was in disrepair.  *No one* was there except under the Coradome.  And since no one was there, there was no upkeep.  The Coradome people were also frozen-ish like in Storeybrook so they didn't age and lived in a haze until Emma came to Storeybrook and time started again.  It started again in the dome and in Storeybrook, but outside of that the rest of FTL aged normally.

[stealinghome]

Actually, the way I understood the original curse was it brought over 1) all people originally from the Fairy Tale Land, even if they were currently in another realm like Jefferson; 2) all people currently *in* Fairy Tale Land even if not originally from there like Dr Whale, and except those protected by the Coradome; and 3) the dead that Regina selected, like her father.

My impression is that it brought over everyone currently in fairytale land (except those under the Coradome) and particular people that pissed Regina off. I don't know that it took Jefferson because he was from Fairytale Land as much as because he annoyed Regina.

[jhlipton]

Wait -- so they have to be careful with the monkeys because they might be their friends -- the same monkeys they were attempting to kill just an episode ago?  Yeah, the monkeys might have just poofed back at Zelena's or whatever, but then why be careful with this monkey?

 

One of the many things that made no sense.

 

 

I was hoping that dark magic can't remove light magic when used in a good cause, but that would have let Emma better able to beat Zelena and we can't have that.  Blech.

 

Any time you get a group of Heroes, they always appear in a line.  Anyone who's played role=playing games knows that you put the fighters up front and the wizards and archers in the back!

Edited May 8, 2014 by jhlipton

[Canada]

How dumb is Gold?  He was right there when they clearly stated that only good magic can kill Zelena.  So, he kills her anyway, knowing he's not exactly in the good witch category.  He's pretty much the evilest of evils.  Not only did her end up freeing Zelena, but now she has her superpowers green brooch back.  Dumb!!

[Zuleikha]

I'm sure it will be no shock that I loved this episode. Galinda was stupid, and I don't know what happened to East and North but Regina had a great episode of things. I did think it was tactless of Galinda to handle Dorothy the way she did, knowing Zelena's weakness was envy and how Dorothy's appearance may appear to Zelena. I still didn't end up understanding Zelena's brand of crazy, though. I get that Zelena was incapable of seeing how awful Regina's life under Cora really was because of envy, but I didn't understand what was so bad about Zelena's life to make Zelena that brand of crazy. I think the Zelena flashback episode or the Zelena/Rumple conversations needed to give more details.

 

I am bummed Rumple killed Zelena. I don't even understand how Neal's death was Zelena's fault. Yeah, Zelena gave him the incomplete information required for the resurrection, but Neal made all the choices. Neal knew that Zelena was directing Lumiere and put the key in the vault anyway. I liked the idea of Zelena having a second chance to live her life with potentially less crazy. 

 

I also dream of seeing Dorothy return as the prophesied Witch of the West now that Zelena's gone. Although Dorothy didn't actually defeat any evil.

 

Why is Belle so dumb? I was cringing at the moment with the dagger. I am back to my original belief that Belle doesn't love Rumple at all, that Bell can't love Rumple at all, because she simply does not know him. She has an imaginary person in her head, and she won't accept anything into reality that contradicts. I don't understand the point of Belle being so stupid, and I pray that this storyline ends with Belle recognizing how blind she's been and leaving Rumple. I will possibly break things if S4 has Belle's blind faith in Rumple redeeming him in any way. I think the Rumpbelle relationship as portrayed is dangerous and irresponsible.

[KAOS Agent]

Emma goes to take on Zelena. Who should go with her? Let's have her take Hook, the guy who can remove her magic. Excellent plan. Everyone was made to be useless simply so Regina could use her "light" magic and save the day. There are ways to have everyone contribute and still give the big moment to you chosen character. This show never manages to do that and it's almost always Emma whose role is diminished the most in these moments. Removing the attributes that make characters unique and special is not great.

Also, I'm a big fan of letting Rumpel kill Zelena. I was happy to see him continue with his dark ways. Although Belle needs to seriously rethink her life choices.

[Shanna Marie]

This episode is a masterpiece of Idiot Plotting.

There's going to the hospital to deliver the baby when their apartment is warded (were the wards at the apartment stronger or different from the quick shield spell they put up at the hospital?)

There's sending Hook with Emma when he's the danger. They could have achieved the same result with Emma going on her own and having to call for help or Zelena holding Hook hostage or something that forced them into proximity rather than them doing it on their own.

Then there's Glinda giving the psycho Zelena the pendant that will make her super-powerful after she goes 30 seconds without magically stalking her sister. Yeah, there's no way that could go wrong.

Zelena herself makes Regina look stable. Regina may have had chances, but Zelena had so many opportunities to have everything she wanted, but she kept derailing over her hatred of someone she never even met. Not to mention that her plans failed both times because she flaunted what she was up to. If she hadn't been flouncing around making a fuss and creeping all over them, she could have had everything she wanted without them knowing they needed to stop her until it was too late.

[daxx]

Hook dishing the tea on Emma about her wanting to leave. I like that he calls her out on occasion.

Hook to Rumple in the barn. “No more water please” 😂 likely the only laugh in the episode.

The end where Hook looks on after Emma states she won’t need magic in NY he looks so angsty. It’s quite a good look on him. 

I honestly have nothing else good to say about this episode.

Originally I was spoiled for the Regina white magic thing since Hulu accidentally posted the clip a couple days early. Adam tried to say we weren’t seeing it in context, which blatant lie, there wasn’t a context for it to make any sense. I still hate that Regina got the win for something that should have been for Emma. Forever bitter.

[Shanna Marie]

5 minutes ago, daxx said:

The end where Hook looks on after Emma states she won’t need magic in NY he looks so angsty. It’s quite a good look on him. 

I noticed that on this viewing. So many emotions went over his face after she walked away and he was watching her. He seemed to swallow a lump in his throat, there was a muscle twitching in his jaw, he seemed to be blinking back the beginnings of tears, like at the point where the eyes are stinging but there aren't tears yet, and his cheeks got a bit red. There was basically a page of interior monologue in those few seconds of close up on his face.

9 minutes ago, daxx said:

Originally I was spoiled for the Regina white magic thing since Hulu accidentally posted the clip a couple days early. Adam tried to say we weren’t seeing it in context, which blatant lie, there wasn’t a context for it to make any sense.

Yeah, I remember that weekend when that clip hit, and the Internet went nuts. Adam tried to do damage control and insisted it wasn't the final scene, and the context would change the way we saw it, but then it turned out to be exactly what we saw. It was flying Tinkerbell Jesus Regina pulling the most powerful light magic out of her ass, in spite of her not having her heart, in spite of her being totally unrepentant about all the things she'd done. And never mind that Regina's dark magic wasn't strong enough to hold up to Zelena, so how did her light magic that she'd never even tried to use before hold up to Zelena? Maybe Zelena was so stunned by Regina flying and and glowing that she was too distracted to fight back. She was probably as "What the huh?" as we were.

[profdanglais]

1 hour ago, daxx said:

The end where Hook looks on after Emma states she won’t need magic in NY he looks so angsty. It’s quite a good look on him.

He smiles with his face but his eyes are so sad. 

[tennisgurl]

Ladies and gentlemen, the lamest retelling of the Wizard of Oz ever! Maybe not the most infuriating, and its blessedly short, but its hard to imagine one that is quite as half assed as this one. I swear, Zelena was written just so they could have a bad guy who was even stupider, pettier, and more needlessly evil than Regina. She constantly gets everything she wants, but always throws it away over stupid things, and her pointless hate on for a person she has never met. I mean, God dang, at least Regina actually KNEW Snow when she started her pointless vengeance quest. 

Speaking of Regina, she is now apparently the Best Most Wonderful Light Magic User Ever, because of fucking coarse she is. She gets the TLK this time around, and now she can use light magic, for reasons that will never be explained, beyond Regina being just so fucking awesome. I remember when this came out for the first time, and everyone was losing their minds, either in excitement or in horror, and A&E were trying to tell people that it would all be explained, and that it was all just a misunderstanding, and what a joke that turned out to be! Regina is hero, who did the great heroic feat of going a whole three days without murdering anyway! Cant bother to try to make amends to any of her victims, cant try to gain more empathy for people, and, dont forget, no regrets about anything she did, but she gets light magic now, because she is just THAT WONDERFUL for being basically useless and salty towards her former victims. Honestly, some of the stuff in her last few scenes with Zelena, like saying how evil is made, not born, or that she will be who she is, but she hasn't earned any of that. Like so many things in this show, it works alright in a vacuum, but if you know the whole show, its a total mess, and even offensive. Also, Regina gets to drop the "heroes dont kill" line, one of the dumbest and most hypocritical catch phrases of this whole show. Yeah, dont kill the murderous villain, but killing all those monkeys, who are probably mostly brainwashed and transformed innocent people, including your own friends and people, was just fine last week. And that line is gonna get worse and worse...

I did actually like some of the Captain Swan stuff this week, even if it meant that Emma has to have her power taken and be sidelines yet again for our real hero, Regina, Our Lady of Perpetual Woobiedom. Honestly, what even makes something light or dark magic? Is it literally the color scheme, or how its used? Or are some spells just considered light or dark? So, why cant people do either? My brain!

Could someone just loan Hook a damn shirt, please? He looks freezing with that plunging neckline of his, there is literally snow on the ground! He was dunked in water! Come on, we know who he is, he doesent need the outfit to remind us!

[KAOS Agent]

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Honestly, some of the stuff in her last few scenes with Zelena, like saying how evil is made, not born, or that she will be who she is, but she hasn't earned any of that. Like so many things in this show, it works alright in a vacuum, but if you know the whole show, its a total mess, and even offensive.

I'm not even sure that it works in a vacuum. Regina is acting generously towards Zelena because she won. She spews the whole "heroes don't kill" line in the barn and then tells Zelena if she doesn't act the way Regina wants her to, Regina will kill her. "Evil isn't born. It's made. And so is good. If I were you... I'd consider creating a new destiny. Because if you don't, I'll be right there to take your heart and crush it." How does that fit in with her sudden light magic, redemption and proclaimed heroism? It makes no sense.

Edited January 6, 2019 by KAOS Agent

[KingOfHearts]

I have zero problem with Regina being the one to take down Zelena since it is her sister and the arc was "Wicked vs. Evil". Regina was built up to be the hero. What I didn't like was the lame-ass way Emma was neutered and light magic shooting out of Regina's butt. The light magic is never brought up again, Regina doesn't have her heart, there's no explanation for it other than the fan head-canon that it was because Robin was holding her heart, there's no particular reason Zelena is weak to it, and Regina does nothing to earn it. It just comes out last second. Regina beating Zelena in 3x16 with not bringing her heart actually made more sense because of her experience with Cora. She used her brain and outwitted the villain. Here, she just walks up and hopes to win. It's a great example of the power of Mary Sues. 

It's just a dumb twist. Robin could've shot the pendant with one of those enchanted arrows, and as anticlimactic as that would've been, would've made more sense. Heck, maybe he could've used one of those golden arrows or whatever Regina gave him during the Missing Year. (It's briefly mentioned in The Tower.) Regina could've strategized a plan and got everybody to work together to distract Zelena/Rumple and take down the flying monkeys while Robin aimed from a hidden spot. Zelena loves monologuing so much that it wouldn't be difficult.

Edited January 6, 2019 by KingOfHearts