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Seasons 1 and 2 Discussion


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I don't know if Villanelle is a psychopath or just deeply misunderstood but I don't think it really matters,   She's incredibly dangerous.  And I think since Eve is primarily a desk agent, someone who isn't usually out in the field on operations  she fumbles it sometimes because she's unsure of how to handle kinetic situations.   I'm not sure if she doesn't see herself as out of her depth or sees it and likes it that way.  She seems to get off on the craziness, the danger, in much the same way Walter White did in Breaking Bad.  It makes her feel "awake" I think she said to the consultant, like Walter White telling Skyler at the end that he did it all because it made him feel alive.  This way lies madness.  And then death.  Or something.

i don't know if Eve and Villanelle are sexually attracted to each other, or one is and the other isn't or what.  For Villanelle I think sex is mostly transactional.  And I think she definitely doesn't see Eve as her equal.  I think the sincerest thing she has said on the show is her telling Eve that the only thing that made Eve interesting is Villanelle.

Mostly I watch this show for Carolyn.

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(edited)

Stunning Raymond, instead of killing him, would have resulted in him coming after Villanelle, and Eve someday.   

I'm hoping that turning V. and Eve loose is part of a bigger plan, and part of that was being able to say that Aaron was killed by someone not connected to MI-6.   Though I doubt anyone cared about Aaron getting offed.   

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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This season had lots that I did like about it, but it also felt very disjointed, especially compared to the first seasons laser focused narrative. We had all of these weird side plots and one shots, like Villanelle getting trapped in that weird guys house, or stalking Niko at his parents night thing, plus about a billion plots and characters that only seemed to be half connected to each other, and are never fully explored. It smelled like a show who only had one season worth of concept, but found itself with more seasons they weren't ready for. 

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2 hours ago, Rambler said:

Didn't Eve already give Konstantin that information in exchange for the location of the safe house that Villanelle was staying in when she was in England? I had the thought that maybe Carolyn was paying him off for manipulating Villanelle into killing Eve.

Yes Eve did give him that already. So either Carolyn moved them when she found out, or it was money. I still think the two of them want to be in the 12, or Carolyn is a member of the 12.

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2 hours ago, attica said:

Honestly, I loved that moment. For an instant, Peele wasn't bored

I got that-I just thought it was sort of a  cliche. We’ve already seen this a million times. Maybe Piper Laurie’s character’s death in Carrie was the first? Although that had a religious component. I just don’t think impending death is a moment of ecstasy for anyone.

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On 5/29/2019 at 12:09 PM, TimWil said:

I got that-I just thought it was sort of a  cliche. We’ve already seen this a million times. Maybe Piper Laurie’s character’s death in Carrie was the first? Although that had a religious component. I just don’t think impending death is a moment of ecstasy for anyone.

Rosa Klebb in From Russia w/ Love did it first! (An on-screen orgasm in the 60's.) Bond did it again to Col Onatopp in Goldeneye, another Russian assassin, LOL.

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I like Villanelle and Eve individually, but they have grown tiresome with their unbelievably contrived attraction for each other... I also thought that Hugo was a one dimensional waste of time.  Jodie and Sandra and the actress who plays Carolyn are very entertaining so I'll continue watching for the humor... but I don't buy the idea that otherwise intelligent women would behave so stupidly... there's not enough history or even a short fling to create such an obsession... and even the whole psychology behind it rings false for both characters.

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I finally had a chance to watch the finale, and I have to say I think the writers really, really screwed the pooch with this finale. And honestly, to some degree with the whole season, given its denouement. On the whole, this season reeks of writers really rushing to a certain plot point--Villanelle and Eve working together (I would have waited for that until S3)--only to have absolutely no idea what to do once they have rushed to get to that point, so nothing particularly interesting happened and they've now yet again re-set the board with the season's end. Only the reset, while it mirrors S1, pretty much makes whatever the writers decide to do next ring hollow because it will be either uber-repetitive or totally unbelievable. As others have said, it probably would have been better for Eve and Villanelle to run off together at the end of the season and to see them both grapple with the ramifications of that decision--not because I expect them to live "happily ever after" in any way (I now agree more than ever that Eve will probably kill Villanelle before the show is over), but now I'm not sure the show can team them up believably ever again, and I think they probably DO need to team up to take down The Twelve still. So this season ending really handcuffed future seasons. You can definitely sense that there is a lack of a strong overarching creative vision for the show. Also a lack of a strong narrative thread--the The Twelve plot really needs to come back full force, because the show is just flailing about without it actually being front and center as the work plot.

What else? I am the least shocked person in the world that Carolyn used Villanelle and Eve to kill Aaron without dirtying MI-6's hands (officially), and that Konstantin went along with it. The show has been telegraphing the hinkiness there for quite a while now. Is Carolyn magically going to take Eve back again next season? Also, ouch, poor Kenny being part of the clean-up. No wonder he warned Eve off the Rome op. I'm actually surprised Carolyn didn't shoot Konstantin in the back as he was walking away from her--I was totally waiting for it given the way the scene was filmed. Konstantin-Villanelle continues to be a stealth MVP relationship for the show. Konstantin betrayed Villanelle...but he also threw her a lifeline (in a way Carolyn didn't Eve). Curious to see where that goes.

I will say the humor was on point in this episode. When Villanelle asked Raymond "how long have you been standing there?" I laughed because I had the exact same question! Other moments that made me laugh included V's confusion when Eve broke down that door--her tone-deaf "are you sure you’re okay?" was a gem, as was her little head shake when Eve said "yeah"--and Eve unexpectedly getting asked out by the assassin dude. Oh's face was hilarious. The scene where Eve killed Raymond also balanced humor and horror very, very well. Oh, and I laughed at Hugo's "Mrs. Robinson" crack, hee.

Super paranoid Aaron leaves the door to the room with his computer full of murder files open? Sure, show. That felt contrived and also really unnecessary--in fact the whole damn Aaron plotline was a hot mess. As if Villanelle was ever going to join forces with him. I really enjoyed Villanelle brazening her way out of the villa, though. It was so very Villanelle (complete with Eve's "you're an asshole," heh).

I hope Jodie Comer gets a LOT of awards love for this season. She found her footing with the character in the middle of the first season, and was just spectacular this year. Really magnetic. I don't think Sandra Oh's performance was as strong as in S1; then again, the material for Eve wasn't nearly as good either. I'll definitely be watching the third season, but I hope the show can rebound.

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I'm not really sure what Eve thinks she can go back home to at this point. She doesn't yet know about what happened to Nico's colleague, but she does know that Carolyn's not going to cover for her because Eve chose Villanelle. So assuming she survives that bullet (because of course she will, just as V survived being stabbed), what does she think she can do next? Just go home and pretend nothing happened and that MI6 or Carolyn or the 12 or whoever else won't come after her or hold her responsible for everything that happened? 

Frankly, while I understand the logic of not having Eve run off with a potential psychopath, what alternatives do either of them have at this point, if Konstantin and Carolyn won't protect either of them anymore? Shouldn't they both be on the run? 

I was kind of ticked at Eve in this final episode, because she gives Villanelle such mixed messages. She touches her face all the time and obsesses about her and runs to save her (leaving poor Hugo to possibly bleed to death!), but when V actually responds to that, Eve keeps pushing her away with disgust as if V is ridiculous to even think that Eve might be attracted to her. What the hell? I'd say she's in some deep denial, or she's being an asshole. Of course she can't get romantically involved with a ruthless killer, but don't lecture Villanelle on needing to be honest and then lie to her about not having any interest or attraction, because that's such bullshit and she knows it and V knows it. Everybody knows it.

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On 4/25/2018 at 2:03 PM, attica said:

Since David Haig is gone, I would feel remiss if I didn't point out that viewers will remember him as randy groomsman (and second [randy] groom) Bernard in Four Weddings and a Funeral

I need to point this out even though it is a whole year later.  I really like the actor David Haig who played Bill.  He also reunites again with Hugh Grant to play his older brother in one of my favourite movies "Two Weeks Notice".  I have to assume he and Hugh are friends.  Definitely worth checking out.

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On 4/14/2019 at 7:44 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

Wasn't Konstantin her contact with the 12, and the one who did the assignments?    The new handler, and Villanelle certainly make an interesting pair.     I really got a kick out of Julian's mother, and her tottering down the road was funny.         Konstantin returns, that was still a surprise, even if I suspected he wasn't dead.     I hope they don't kill Nico off.      

(This is from April - sorry)

When Villanelle was captured by Julian she called the Twelve and said "This is Cher Horowitz and I failed my driving test".  Amazing "Clueless" reference.  I gasped.

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On 4/17/2019 at 6:34 PM, peacheslatour said:

We only have his word for that and I wouldn't believe that creep if he said water is wet. In fact at one point V even said "Aha, you're faking it!" He hid all the knives probably because his mother tried to kill his scary ass to get the hell out of that torture dungeon.

I wouldn't be surprised if Julian was drugging his mother to keep her there.  

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On 5/7/2019 at 12:14 PM, tennisgurl said:

Eve almost pushing the guy into a train seemed like maybe a call back to earlier when the other Cassini asked if she wanted to give being an assassin a try, and Eve said she didnt have the stomach for it. But I mean, holy crap Eve take a step back and reevaluate some things! Considering killing a random guy? Sacking poor Kenny for talking back? 

But it wasn't a random guy. The guy almost pushed HER onto the tracks, first.  I thought she sacked Kenny to protect him.

(edited)

I savor and relish this program.  Every fxckxng second of it.

I had more self-discipline than I ever had in my life and saved  S2 to binge-watch over the 4th of July holiday.

I am kind of done with this forum.  Too many negative, crtical posts.  I am not commenting if they are warranted or not.  Everyone is free to state their opinion.  But the sheer amount of negative posts bring me down from my delightful Killing Eve high.

Gawd, how do I survive until the next season????!!??

Edited by PumpkinPK
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PumpkinPK, If you want to see hateful posts, check out the Pioneer Woman forum.  I had to unfollow because the posters are absolutely vicious in their hatred of Ree.  But leave if you must.  I like getting other people's insights because sometimes I can't quite figure out what's going on or what was said.

I see that both Jodie and Sandra earned Best Actress Emmy nominations.  I would love to see Jodie win, I think she brought far more in her role this season.

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8 hours ago, roughing it said:

PumpkinPK, If you want to see hateful posts, check out the Pioneer Woman forum.  I had to unfollow because the posters are absolutely vicious in their hatred of Ree.  But leave if you must.  I like getting other people's insights because sometimes I can't quite figure out what's going on or what was said.

I see that both Jodie and Sandra earned Best Actress Emmy nominations.  I would love to see Jodie win, I think she brought far more in her role this season.

Thank you for saying that, RI.

Embarrassingly, too many shows I watch are Bravo reality and while I often hate-watch just because I live for the vicious comments on the forums, this show is not one of them.

I actually love so many comments here, and they also give me explanations and insight on the characters and story that I would never glean on my own.

But this show is so dear to my heart, I can't bear all the negative posts this season.  I don't care if they are true, this is one of the few shows left on air that delight me.

I had no idea about negative Ree posts.  She seems like such a nice Southern lady.  

I really hate so much of the Internet sometimes.  People feel free to be such jerks (not referring to the Killing Eve forum at all, not even a little).

Edited by PumpkinPK
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I mean, no one’s trying to harsh anyone’s mellow. Generally if I take the time to complain about disappointment in a show it’s because I did enjoy it in the past. I rarely hate-watch anything.

Jodie Comer is excellent, but the plot this season was a hot mess, and no one knows what’s up with Eve’s characterization. 

If it’s at all helpful, I’ve found that if you join a specific show’s subreddit on reddit, you are unlikely to see as many negative posts (because negative/critical opinions will be downvoted by the more intense fandom) unless a show has really jumped the shark. (The downside being, 75% of all posts will be dumb meme pictures.)

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First, I hate that there is a single thread for this show, and I hope by the time season 3 airs TPTB deem it worthy of episode specific threads.  Now, for random comments in no specific order...

I don't think Eve was wearing her bullet proof vest in the final scene.  The turtleneck sweater she was wearing wasn't tight, but it was fitted enough that the bpv would have easily shown through.  She had a defined waist and boobs, so no, no bpv. 

If you watch the last few seconds, as the arial shot pulls back, I'm pretty damn sure there's a pool of blood by Eve's abdomen.  So I do think she was really shot and is not faking it a la Hugo.

I was really really disappointed that The Twelve plot line, which was perfectly set up at the end of Season 1, was practically abandoned in this season. 

I am not a fan of Niko.  I find him wholly unattractive both physically and in personality.  I was hoping at some point Villanelle would tie him up, pull out a straight razor, look at him menacingly...  and give him a proper shave and a haircut, put him in a really nice suit for him, and leave him like that for Eve to find.  I hope he's gone in season 3.

I loved the few early episodes with Villanelle on the run.  Loved the hospital scenes, the escape from the hospital, and the episode with the creepy guy and his mum.  Loved how Villanelle's new handler was so inept at handling her.

Glad Konstantin returned, and I really wouldn't change a thing about how he was used this season.

I thought that MI-6 hiring on Villanelle, both for the Ghost and Aaron, was way too farfetched and didn't work at all for me.  You could edit out the entire Ghost storyline and it wouldn't make a difference to the season.  With only 8 episodes, spend more time on Eve & Villanelle.  I understand they wanted Eve and Villanelle to work "together" this season, but I can't believe MI-6 wouldn't have a solid plan to take Villanelle into custody at the end of her "job", but instead they seem fine with leaving a brutal assassin on the streets.  I would have rather seen some situation where Eve and Villanelle are both captured or targeted by a Big Bad, they fight each other initially, but then realize the only way out is to work together.  Not the "let's use one psychopath to catch another psychopath".  I also didn't buy Aaron so quickly falling for Villanelle and inviting her to Rome, just as they needed to happen, as well as having her in the room when he discussed his evil plan, leaving his computer open for her to search, etc., etc. etc. 

I don't believe Eve was really sexually attracted to Villanelle.  From Season 1, I saw Eve as turned on by the chase, by her newly discovered (and finally appreciated) skills as a profiler and her ability to get into Villanelle's head.  She was an unappreciated desk jockey, but now she's part of the sexy spy world, and she loves it.  And I still saw that in Season 2 - she's turned on by the game, that she (Eve) is important enough for V to care about, to be let in on the game.  When they're in the same room, Eve is frustrated with V, like dealing with a small child.  But when the game is on, its an aphrodisiac to her.  Eve, quite literally, gets off on it.

All that being said, I still enjoyed the hell out of this season.  It really is a captivating show.  The scenery (Aaron's Rome mansion!   Rome, especially that final ruin!), V's amazing wardrobe, Carolyn's droll delivery...  All fabulous.   I hope it gets back on track in Season 3, and I hate that I have to wait - what, a year? - for that. 

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On 7/20/2019 at 12:33 AM, chaifan said:

First, I hate that there is a single thread for this show, and I hope by the time season 3 airs TPTB deem it worthy of episode specific threads.  Now, for random comments in no specific order...

I don't think Eve was wearing her bullet proof vest in the final scene.  The turtleneck sweater she was wearing wasn't tight, but it was fitted enough that the bpv would have easily shown through.  She had a defined waist and boobs, so no, no bpv. 

If you watch the last few seconds, as the arial shot pulls back, I'm pretty damn sure there's a pool of blood by Eve's abdomen.  So I do think she was really shot and is not faking it a la Hugo.

I was really really disappointed that The Twelve plot line, which was perfectly set up at the end of Season 1, was practically abandoned in this season. 

I am not a fan of Niko.  I find him wholly unattractive both physically and in personality.  I was hoping at some point Villanelle would tie him up, pull out a straight razor, look at him menacingly...  and give him a proper shave and a haircut, put him in a really nice suit for him, and leave him like that for Eve to find.  I hope he's gone in season 3.

I loved the few early episodes with Villanelle on the run.  Loved the hospital scenes, the escape from the hospital, and the episode with the creepy guy and his mum.  Loved how Villanelle's new handler was so inept at handling her.

Glad Konstantin returned, and I really wouldn't change a thing about how he was used this season.

I thought that MI-6 hiring on Villanelle, both for the Ghost and Aaron, was way too farfetched and didn't work at all for me.  You could edit out the entire Ghost storyline and it wouldn't make a difference to the season.  With only 8 episodes, spend more time on Eve & Villanelle.  I understand they wanted Eve and Villanelle to work "together" this season, but I can't believe MI-6 wouldn't have a solid plan to take Villanelle into custody at the end of her "job", but instead they seem fine with leaving a brutal assassin on the streets.  I would have rather seen some situation where Eve and Villanelle are both captured or targeted by a Big Bad, they fight each other initially, but then realize the only way out is to work together.  Not the "let's use one psychopath to catch another psychopath".  I also didn't buy Aaron so quickly falling for Villanelle and inviting her to Rome, just as they needed to happen, as well as having her in the room when he discussed his evil plan, leaving his computer open for her to search, etc., etc. etc. 

I don't believe Eve was really sexually attracted to Villanelle.  From Season 1, I saw Eve as turned on by the chase, by her newly discovered (and finally appreciated) skills as a profiler and her ability to get into Villanelle's head.  She was an unappreciated desk jockey, but now she's part of the sexy spy world, and she loves it.  And I still saw that in Season 2 - she's turned on by the game, that she (Eve) is important enough for V to care about, to be let in on the game.  When they're in the same room, Eve is frustrated with V, like dealing with a small child.  But when the game is on, its an aphrodisiac to her.  Eve, quite literally, gets off on it.

All that being said, I still enjoyed the hell out of this season.  It really is a captivating show.  The scenery (Aaron's Rome mansion!   Rome, especially that final ruin!), V's amazing wardrobe, Carolyn's droll delivery...  All fabulous.   I hope it gets back on track in Season 3, and I hate that I have to wait - what, a year? - for that. 

I looked and looked and couldn’t see any blood. I guess I will need to look again. 

On 7/19/2019 at 10:33 PM, chaifan said:

I understand they wanted Eve and Villanelle to work "together" this season, but I can't believe MI-6 wouldn't have a solid plan to take Villanelle into custody at the end of her "job", but instead they seem fine with leaving a brutal assassin on the streets.

Just spitballin' here, but maybe Eve's "task" was to seemingly work together with Villanelle, and the MI-6 gang is right outside the courtyard where Eve was shot.

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There is a show where a heterosexual couple gets involved with a woman, o guess they were poly for a bit. She screwed them over, but later on, on rare occasions, the wife would have sex with the woman despite detesting her. Eventually, the woman realized that she wasn’t necessarily attracted to this other woman in some uncontrollable way, but rather, she liked being dominated, which the woman did.

For Eve, I’m not sure she’s truly attracted to Villanelle, but rather, what she is and represents. Eve has psychopathic leanings, perhaps, without being one. She is probably projecting her desires onto Villanelle, but she doesn’t have the bloodlust or real need to kill.

Because she isn’t being pulled between Nico and Villanelle, but her humanity and her psychopathic leanings. She needs serious psychiatric help. She wants Villanelles attention because she’s lives vicariously through her and she liked having a psychopath’s attention. Yet, in the many occasions we’ve seen where Eve has to choose between Villanelle and her humanity, she chooses her humanity.

When she lies on the bed with Villanelle in season 1, Eve stabs her. She rejects Villanelle’s offer because of who she is and what’s she’s done. Despite giving into her desire to stab Villanelle, it also frightened and shocks her. When Villanelle is hiding from the police and Eve figures out where she is, Eve gives her up without hesitation. Eve struggles with killing Raymond and is shocked not exhilarated by it.

Eve struggled with the idea of Villanelle being killed, but she has never struggled with turning her in or using violence against Villanelle herself when she felt warranted. Which is why when she realized she was manipulated/forced into killing Raymond, she can walk away from Villanelle. She isn’t attracted for Villanelle as a person, but what she does and how she does it.

And that’s very hard to separate because then we have the ghost. But, I believe what drew Eve to Villanelle was also her theatrical nature. She wants the attention even as she evades capture.

We see that we Nico takes “advice” from Villanelle and uses it, Eve is more engaged with her husband. She likes his aggression and assertiveness. She wants more out of their sex life. She loves Nico as a person, but he’s not dangerous, so she’s checking out, but doesn’t want to leave; she ls infatuated with Villanelle being a psychopath, but she doesn’t actually love Villanelle and would never be with her due to how unstable she is.

Then there is also the fact that Carolyn/the MI6 have been exploiting Eve’s psychopathic leanings and manipulating her to their desired path. 


Eve had an attraction to Hugo, but she wasn’t attracted to Hugo. Think about it: there’s a since of danger being involved with him. But, her act of sleeping with him had nothing to do with him and the day after she’s totally indifferent. 

She gets off on her connection to a killer and the situations it puts her in. She sends mixed messages because she doesn’t understand her feelings for Villanelle or why she has them or the message she is sending.

Edited by Nanrad
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You can be attracted to someone and still be annoyed by/frustrated with/scared of them.

I mean, Eve isn't a psychopath like Villanelle is but she clearly has deep psychological issues. Expecting her to experience attraction and romantic interest in a more traditional way is pointless. So, while I agree that her relationship with Villanelle is serving a deeper need for her I think it's simplistic to suggest that's all it is. Eve has encountered other killers and hasn't responded to any of them they way she responds to Villanelle- unless we're talking about the fear she exhibited during their first few encounters. Her attraction to Villanelle was something that grew over time, not some immediate, "This serial killer is into me: hot!" response. Eve felt betrayed by Villanelle when she realized she had been manipulated because of her attraction, both emotionally and sexually to Villanelle. That her attraction to Villanelle is not just because of what Villanelle does and how she does it is why she was able to walk away.

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