S34.E07: What Happened on Exile, Stays on Exile

[cooksdelight]

7 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

How do the producers handle medicines on the show?  Zeke can't be the only one who takes daily prescription medicines. 

Is there a daily dispensing, where they all line up or ????????

Yes, there is a tent where all the meds are stored and dispensed, for each tribe.

[Eolivet]

14 hours ago, annewithaneee said:

I think he's just trying to spin this any way he can, because there's really only two realistic options for how he knew that Zeke is trans -- either Zeke confided in him and Varner betrayed his trust, or Varner was paying close attention to the Survivor fandom last year and saw all the discussion and speculation about Zeke including his physical appearance and scars (and later the almost for-sure confirmation that Zeke is indeed trans via some writing he did in college). I think it's the latter; he did his research and he knew, and he most likely also knew and understood from reading those discussions that Zeke wasn't publicly out.

Just wanted to say I agree with your evaluation. I don't think there's a chance in hell that Zeke told Varner. Zeke was very clear in everything he said and did that this was not going to be a part of his Survivor experience (and from Jeff Probst interviews, he communicated that to producers). I cannot fathom that he willingly told Varner -- who he'd known, what, 10 minutes? 2 days? (were they ever on the same tribe until now?). This isn't Adam and Jay in the hammock last year.

The Gordon Holmes interview seems to make it clear that Zeke never said anything directly. So, again -- really nasty thing to do based on speculation. I knew Zeke couldn't have confided in him -- that made no sense. Zeke was closer to a lot more people last year, and it doesn't sound like he ever told them on the show. That's just asking for trouble, and from everything I've read about Zeke, he went out of his way to avoid trouble.

From where I sit, Varner just keeps digging himself a deeper hole. This was national news, for goodness sake.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Eolivet

[susannot]

Not too many people have remarked upon this, because it was obviously overshadowed by the huge drama on the show, but I was very impressed by Hali solving the puzzle.  "Metamorphosis" was not an easy word to figure out.

And also,Ozzy swims better than most fish I have seen.

[ByaNose]

15 minutes ago, susannot said:

Not too many people have remarked upon this, because it was obviously overshadowed by the huge drama on the show, but I was very impressed by Hali solving the puzzle.  "Metamorphosis" was not an easy word to figure out.

And also,Ozzy swims better than most fish I have seen.

Yeah, Hali someshow saw M-E-T-A and thought there was something there. I can't recall if she specifically figured out Metamorphosis though. Did she? Maybe, it was a team effort at that point. I know there have been a lot of conspiracy theories about the word and how the show ended but I thought it was such a random word. I wonder how long it took them to actually figure it out?

[jaync]

Quote

The only way I personally would ever give Varner a pass, is if he actually admitted to having issues with trans people.

And that wouldn't be an anomaly, as there are many in the gay/lesbian community who are biased against trans people (and bisexuals).

[survivinmt]

I know one transgender person IRL and seriously he could be Zeke's brother, they look and, other than the accent, sound the same. But it did not for one second occur to me that Zeke was transgender. (Doesn't matter either.)

With regards to the conspiracy theories going around about the season theme and the word metamorphosis - I honestly think the challenge creators looked up "change" in the thesaurus and found a nice long complicated word to go with. The "Game Changers" can't have been assigned after the season was taped because they have been mentioning it ad nauseum since Day 1.

[cooksdelight]

1 hour ago, Eolivet said:

I think it's the latter; he did his research and he knew, and he most likely also knew and understood from reading those discussions that Zeke wasn't publicly out.

Couldn't have happened. The season Zeke was in first wasn't yet aired. They just finished filming, turned around and filmed this season. Varner knew nothing about Zeke until they met in this season.

[Jersey Guy 87]

On 4/12/2017 at 11:12 PM, Paws said:

Also, I was annoyed at how everyone made it about them. Even Sarah, who was so heartfelt, made it about her personal growth. And Varner saying  he'd be Zekes biggest cheerleader was nauseating and Im glad Zeke shut it down

 

I disagree that Sarah (or anyone else) made it about her personal growth.  She was asked how she was feeling, in the moment, with no time to compose her thoughts.  She answered honestly.  And yeah, it totally sucked for Zeke (on so many levels) but I'm sure it sucked for everyone else who was there.  And I feel bad for all of them except Varner.

On 4/13/2017 at 0:27 AM, millennium said:

I must say, though, given what transpired later, the choice of "metamorphosis" as a puzzle word was just bizarre.  Usually when they have a puzzle challenge the mystery word or phrase is directly related to either Survivor or the filming locale/culture.  Where did "metamorphosis" come from?  

It's been said (and debated) but a metamorphosis is a change.  The theme this season is game changers.  And while "metamorphosis" might be a weak analogy to game changers calling everyone playing this season a "game changer" is equally weak.

On 4/13/2017 at 0:34 AM, Callaphera said:

I would be so pissed if I was a contestant and I got that pizza reward. Not because I don't love pizza (I'm eating some buffalo chicken pizza right now) but because it looked like cold, greasy, dried out campfire pizza. Like, you can't spring to have some Dominos flown in from the mainland or wherever the nearest one is? Cinna Stix or bust, people.  

Sorry, but ordering Dominos isn't ordering pizza.  It's ordering bread with some cheese and tomato sauce, exactly what they were given (and I'd like to think that they gave actual fresh pizzas to the winners, not the ones that were sitting there for however long during the challenge).

On 4/13/2017 at 8:49 AM, cooksdelight said:

They cut back on alcohol because people were getting drunk and doing/saying stupid shit.

 

Last season they had any number of rewards that included alcohol that Will could not partake in.  So they still give alcohol as a reward.  Just not in this episode.

On 4/13/2017 at 10:03 AM, TaraS1 said:

And yay for the soft drinks being offered!  I don't drink alcohol, so I always wondered what I would do in one of the beer only rewards lol

They give non-drinkers/under age drinkers soft drinks.

On 4/13/2017 at 10:20 AM, AuntieDiane6 said:

I, too, was inspired by Zeke until I saw today's PEOPLE interview where he's still "struggling" to "forgive" Varner.  He didn't go to Harvard--and publish his reports there on transitioning--without figuring out that this is a PR bonanza for him.

First, he will win $100,000 as fan favorite.

Second, he's in a good position to win it all.

Third, expect to see him next on The Talk and any other CBS talk/reality show (The Amazing Race etc.)

Fourth, CBS will hire him to pen a column about Survivor.

AGAIN, I admired him until today's article where, rather than preaching peace love and forgiveness, he went the easy route ... 

I have no problem with him struggling to forgive Varner after the fact.  In the moment, he had one of two default reactions - total contempt or be the bigger guy and say it's all right.  He took the latter path.  That he might "benefit" from this (and do they give out the $100K fan favorite award any more) is irrelevant - Varner did something deeply personal and hateful towards him.  I can see looking back and saying "whoa, that wasn't cool."

But that aside, the sense I get is Zeke is willing to forgive him but not be friendly with him any more.  And that's totally understandable.

20 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I appreciated what the others said, but cringed (and kind of hated it) when Tai was giving Varner some benefit of the doubt, as did Andrea.  The whole "i can kind of see his side.." should not have happened, IMO.  It wasn't a slip of the tongue, it wasn't a statement made under duress, it was a planned move on Varner's part.  I thought Jeff Probst handled it well, and I thought Zeke was amazing.  His humbleness with 'I should not be a role model for anyone, but...' spoke volumes about his character.  

Neither Andrea nor Tai knew that Varner had been planning on doing something to blow up Zeke's game all day so I give them the benefit of the doubt.  At that point they were shocked and unsure how to respond.  "I can kind of see his side" type of comments were a chance for Varner to save himself, instead he dug himself deeper (and has dug himself even deeper in his post-game commentary, IMO).

But yeah, Zeke's response in the moment was beyond amazing.

[survivinmt]

While it DID seem a little insensitive of Sarah to "me me me I I I" I don't fault her for it all. She was asked how she was doing. She did a good job of trying verbalize her emotions and I am sure that Zeke was relieved to not have all the attention on him for a few minutes, even though they were still discussing him.

[himela]

Varner said in an interview that 4 hours prior to the tribal council he discussed with Andrea about Zeke being transgender and she very well knew, but during TC she said she didn't know...

Is it so hard to know the true events in this show?

[SlackerInc]

1 hour ago, susannot said:

Not too many people have remarked upon this, because it was obviously overshadowed by the huge drama on the show, but I was very impressed by Hali solving the puzzle.  "Metamorphosis" was not an easy word to figure out.

Yes!  I loved that moment, including watching Culpepper and the others increasingly notice "I think she's right..." and then pump their fists as they saw they were completing the comeback.

[EvilApplesauce]

On 2017-04-13 at 8:33 AM, truthaboutluv said:

With all due respect, it does sound like comparing two situations that in my opinion, are completely unrelated. Yes, Zeke took a cheap shot at David during a tribal council and mocked him about crying. It was dickish and insensitive and many others, including me, called him out about it when the episode aired. But that comment didn't reveal something deeply personal about David that could potentially put him at risk. It also didn't go beyond the game.

What Varner did was take shit far beyond revealing someone is lying about alliances, sneaking food, etc. and instead revealed something deeply personal and private that had nothing to do with the game. And worse, he attached that reveal to some argument of Zeke's being deceptive. As others have pointed out, everything about this was awful but possibly the most dangerous part is Varner's inadvertently feeding the mentality that trans people are somehow deceptive, bad people.

Thanks for your reply, but in all honesty I wasn't trying to compare the levels of what Zeke did to what Varner did, and I even said so. I'm sorry for letting you or anyone else get that impression. I hadn't seen the episode at the time - still have no plans to watch it in light of what I've read here - so I wasn't condoning Varner's behavior in any way. I do think what he did was absolutely unforgivable.

That said, I beg to differ that what Zeke did to David had no effect beyond the game (this was actually kind of my point earlier). When Zeke (and Brett) started ganging up on David at TC, they were mocking David's anxiety and insecurities. David let the other players know that he was out on the island trying to conquer those very demons. Whether or not certain players thought it was "sissy" of David to even have those issues didn't make those issues any less real to David. Attacking him for being a "scaredy cat" did go beyond the game to hurt David's feelings, because I distinctly remember the camera showing David sitting with a shocked look on his face like "wow, did I really deserve that?" (Although he took the high road and let it roll off his back, just like it sounds like Zeke came to do later in response to Varner). And like you said, there was a viewer uproar about what Zeke did, and I remember I stopped liking Zeke as a player based off of that episode. 

My initial comment was trying to say something about Probst and the producers. I meant to say that there seems to be no limit to what players can do to each other, so long as they don't physically attack each other, and I think that that's disgusting on the producers' part. Judging from what I'm reading here, Probst didn't stop TC or check Varner UNTIL the other players first found what Varner said out of line. I also read that Andrea and Tai were kind of trying to give Varner the benefit of the doubt at first (and I'm thinking it's because they were a little in shock). I imagine if all the players had reacted to Varner like "so what?" - Probst would have continued asking questions at TC like business as usual, and he would have let the players vote as they always do, without giving much attention to the damage that was done to Zeke. I'm guessing that's the only scenario in which Varner outing Zeke would have been edited out from the show: in a case that the other players didn't react strongly enough to make it worth airing.

My opinion was that bullying of any kind should be checked and stopped at TC by Probst. I don't think it's fair to  say or imply that just because David may not face potential violence for suffering from anxiety, that that shouldn't be something off-limits to the other players to use as gameplay at TC. My only comparison (so to speak) in Zeke and Varner's actions was saying that when their backs were against the wall, they couldn't defend themselves with strategy only, and they felt the need to make things personal just to stay a few more days in the game. Other players have been in the hot seat and somehow managed to navigate TC without saying "are you going to cry to your mommy?" or "Zeke used to be a girl, so he's lying to you all!" I said that there's a sad irony in Zeke being the perpetrator and then the victim of personal attacks at TC, both of which shouldn't have happened if Probst would draw the line somewhere. He certainly keeps everybody in check at the reunion show: for example, when that guy Shane(?) was unrepentant for his remarks and treatment about Sash, Jeff cut him off mid-sentence and didn't let him continue spewing more hate speech and bigotry. But for some reason TC is a free-for-all (and the cynic in me thinks it's only because the reunion show has a strict time limit on air, whereas TC can go on for hours and allows Probst to sit back and watch - even encourage - some nasty words).

I wish Survivor had done something like what America's Next Top Model did in the All-Stars season: cut everything that was filmed after discovering the winner was an escort, and just air a new winner and final episode without explaining what the original winner did to break the rules. Viewers speculated, but Tyra et al never spoke on what happened, as far as I know. If Survivor had edited out this entire TC, aired some short segment saying that Varner had to be removed from the game, then the camera guys and producers could have told the remaining players "out of respect for Zeke, we don't want you guys to discuss this incident at camp." I'm sure the players would have been happy to comply with such restrictions. 

[pennben]

49 minutes ago, himela said:

Varner said in an interview that 4 hours prior to the tribal council he discussed with Andrea about Zeke being transgender and she very well knew, but during TC she said she didn't know...

Is it so hard to know the true events in this show?

My understanding from reading about this train wreck, Andrea knew Zeke from Survivor Brooklyn (whatever that is) prior to their season. Maybe she was someone Zeke confided in prior to going on the show. Maybe she intentionally or inadvertently confirmed it to Varner when they were talking. I'm fairly confident she never knew or imagined Varner was going to brutally out him at tribal. My recollection of her reaction at tribal was that Varner had no right to do what he did and she was very upset. I don't recall her saying she didn't know, but I could be wrong. 

Varner is just not gonna stop until he drags everyone down, is he? Stop talking Jeff!

[millennium]

I wonder if misogyny played a role in Varner's decision to out Zeke.   Would he have done it if he thought Zeke was cisgender male?

It seems clear Varner knew for awhile that Zeke is transgender.   Before the season began he stated in an interview:

Quote

 

Zeke, when I first saw him I thought, that’s a lesbian with a mustache. 

‘Survivor’ Jeff: “I Feel Like If I Keep My Mouth Shut I Might Make a Jury For a Change”

That's even worse than Caitlyn Jenner describing less privileged transgender women as looking like a "man in a dress."  Because Varner's words not only cast judgment on Zeke's appearance and his identity both as a man and a transgender person, but on his sexuality as well. 

I think Varner felt empowered to out Zeke because in Varner's eyes Zeke is just a woman pretending to be a man and he was gonna put her in her place.   Despite all his politically correct, ass-saving statements since that tribal council, the real Varner is the one who glibly expressed that hurtful sentiment about Zeke in an interview that he knew would be read by the public and Survivor fans especially: "a lesbian with a mustache."

I can't help but note that Varner hails from North Carolina, the same backward state that doesn't want transgender people using public bathrooms.

Edited April 14, 2017 by millennium

[pennben]

I think Varner has a mean streak.  I enjoyed him in the Second Chances season until I started reading interviews post-show and he was just vicious about Tasha in his comments.  I don't recall specifically what they were but they were intended to be personally hurtful toward her and he had zero remorse for them.  So, when I heard what he did in the past episode and that it was premeditated, I was absolutely not surprised that he would lash out in anger again at someone who 'betrayed' him.  I guess I was just surprised at how brutal he was and that he would go that far when lashing back.  I wasn't watching this season but did watch this episode after it blew up on the internet and that was awful.

Someone upthread noted that Russell Hantz had said on twitter "you wanna act like a boy, I'm gonna treat you like a boy'. In my stroll around the internet, I think on a Reddit forum, someone indicated that in that tweet back in February, it wasn't Russell expressing his own sentiment, but rather Russell alluding to what Varner had said at the tribal council before outing Zeke.  Take that with as many grains of salt as necessary, I'm just passing it along. If true, Varner got a very, very good edit this past episode.

Edited April 14, 2017 by pennben

[peachmangosteen]

If it is true that Andrea knew Zeke was trans and that Varner talked with her about it then that puts her reaction to Varner's TC outting in a different light to me. She might have not only been feeling sorry for Zeke that he went through that but also possibly guilty that she might have inadvertently proved Varner's suspicions. So just a double whammy for her. 

Edited April 14, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[MissEwa]

10 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

If it is true that Andrea knew Zeke was trans and that Varner talked with her about it then that puts her reaction to Varner's TC outting in a different light to me. She might have not only been feeling sorry for Zeke that he went through that but also possibly guilty that she might have inadvertently proved Varner's suspicions. So just a double whammy for her. 

Yep. It's very possible she wasn't shocked at the fact that Zeke was trans but at the fact that Varner had just outed him in that way. That's what seemed to shock and anger all of them. Again, though - I do wonder... if Jeff discussed this with Andrea, whether the producers should have stepped in and told him it was not to happen. 

So... my understanding is that Jeff's position is that he wasn't 100% sure that Zeke was trans but he assumed that if he was, that it was widely publicised during his first season and everyone knew on MvGenX? So he wasn't outing him to millions, just to five other people? Firstly, that's still really shitty. You don't out someone to even one person they obviously haven't told. Their reasons are their own and it's not your place. And secondly... wasn't Jeff on a tribe - and, at least loosely, in an alliance - with Michaela? If he was so curious about Zeke, and so suspicious that Zeke was this season's Russell Hantz, surely he would have discussed his suspicions with Michaela, who played with him on the season where - according to Jeff's theory - he was out and proud? It's not like when Russell came into HvV with no-one else from Samoa coming with him. 

(It's also not like Russell because even if Jeff was 100% right and Zeke was out to the world and out on his first season, he has every right not to be out on this season and that in no way would have made him a villain or deceitful. Maybe he didn't want to be the 'trans Survivor guy' this season? Maybe he got bullied by another tribemate, or voted out early because the people on his tribe didn't like trans people? Even if Jeff was right about the facts, he couldn't possibly assume to know the thinking behind them, which is just another reason for him to keep his mouth shut, IMO.)

[pamplemousse]

On 4/13/2017 at 6:59 AM, JudyObscure said:

Sarah didn't seem to be intending to say anything at all until Probst asked her to explain what she was thinking while she sat there looking stunned and tearful.  Even after he asked her, she paused and obviously struggled to find words to explain her feelings, she hadn't had time to write a concise speech and her feelings are by definition going to be about her. I don't think her Midwestern upbringing is  something she should be blamed for, in spite of all the prejudice and hatred toward people born between the coasts.

She said her Midwestern upbringing was narrow-minded by describing how people didn't know or respect LGBTQ issues, I'm not judging her Midwestern upbringing to be narrow-minded. I was raised in the Midwest and what she described was accurate to my experience -- a lot of narrow-minded people in terms of LGBTQ issues. I maintain that she went on and on for too long and came off TO ME as though she was making it more about herself and her upbringing, that's my problem with that extended TC moment not that she's Midwestern and all of the Midwest are bigoted ignorant louts. A lot are yes, but I don't think that is particular to the Midwest.

I do admit that my annoyance with the moment was how long it seemed to go on for me to the point that I had to mute the tv and also that I don't like Sarah and I don't care that her conservative cis-hetero-normative upbringing didn't expose her to LGBTQ people and now she's so moved by it because she loves Zeke as a person even though he's gay and trans. I wasn't moved that a straight person had so much growth due to knowing Zeke. I'd rather know more about Zeke's feelings and spend more time on that and I don't even like him all that much (although I do think he handled the situation very well).

Edited April 14, 2017 by pamplemousse

[Vyk]

8 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

I will never like Zeke on a personal level because of the way he made fun of David's tears at Tribal Council

That's why I love him, actually.

[backformore]

Hollywood reporter article

Everyone should read this. It's very well written, by Zeke.

[KHenry14]

I think we need to recognize the great job Probst did at TC. Dalton Ross mentioned in his recap that Probst was probably the only host who would let the scenario play out rather than immediately go to Zeke for the proforma "How does that make you feel Zeke" question. The scenario is entirely different because Jeff didn't get too much into the middle of this. 

[MVFrostsMyPie]

That was intense. My heart hurts. Cried like Andrea & Sarah. That was brutal. There is no excuse for that.

[Rachel RSL]

On 4/13/2017 at 10:58 PM, mojoween said:

I can't lie, when Varner first said it for a split second I thought Zeke was going to immediately say something like "what are you talking about? I'm not trans."

I had the same reaction. Mainly because it was so out of the blue. I thought Varner was just desperately making stuff up. And I kind of think the other people at TC followed the same thought process as I did:

- Wait, did he just say Zeke is transgender? Varner really is desperate.

- *sees Zeke's face*

- Oh, it is true. Did Varner just out him??

- *sits in shocked silence at the realization of how horrible that is*

[cooksdelight]

Varner has lost his job from the fallout.

http://www.newsobserver.com/entertainment/tv/warm-tv-blog/article144606309.html

[Brenogan]

42 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

Varner has lost his job from the fallout.

http://www.newsobserver.com/entertainment/tv/warm-tv-blog/article144606309.html

I love the comments section...

 

"Now to see what path each of their lives takes... I wish them both healing and growth."

"I would hire Jeff at our new real estate office in Oakland, ca"

"This is all to telling of the PC environment we live in. Yes he was a jerk, but to lose his job for exercising his right of free speech is ludicrous!"

"I have an issue with the Survivor" producers who could have easily edited that out and saved two men from embarrassment. It's shameful that the show used an incident like this to dramatize the show. Sometimes it's more ethical to protect the participants, who aren't acting and don't always think clearly."

"Theater. All contrived to shine more spotlight on the needy transgender who did not get any attention while growing up."

 

Only one full of venom.  Not bad out of 6.

[MsTree]

9 hours ago, EvilApplesauce said:

I wish Survivor had done something like what America's Next Top Model did in the All-Stars season: cut everything that was filmed after discovering the winner was an escort, and just air a new winner and final episode without explaining what the original winner did to break the rules. Viewers speculated, but Tyra et al never spoke on what happened, as far as I know. If Survivor had edited out this entire TC, aired some short segment saying that Varner had to be removed from the game, then the camera guys and producers could have told the remaining players "out of respect for Zeke, we don't want you guys to discuss this incident at camp." I'm sure the players would have been happy to comply with such restrictions

I don't watch ANTM, but I don't agree that Survivor should have followed suit. Survivor is/was the first successful Reality TV show, and as such, I appreciate that they didn't edit anything out.  Doing so would have just brought on more questions, more speculation...and eventually it would have gotten out to the public anyway, in the same way as show "spoilers" get out.  By being honest and airing the segment, we all get to see/learn the FACTS. No guessing, no bullshit. For me, I say BRAVO Survivor!

[MsTree]

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

Varner has lost his job from the fallout.

The public outcry is getting out of hand...and folks aren't going to be happy until they totally ruin Varner's life.  The guy admittedly made a horrible mistake. What's next? Burning at the cross?

[pennben]

3 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Varner has lost his job from the fallout.

http://www.newsobserver.com/entertainment/tv/warm-tv-blog/article144606309.html

Taking (or at least trying to) all emotion out of it in thinking through this, that had to happen, didn't it?

He is a real estate agent in North Carolina. He has only been with the firm that fired him for three weeks, after him ditching another firm he started at in just this past February apparently. North Carolina is the state that passed HB2 about which bathrooms transgenders could use.  That caused a huge nationwide outcry against the state.  But, the voters in the state elected the folks who passed the bill.  So I'm guessing a lot of anti-trans folks live there and a lot of pro-trans, or at least live-and-let-live folks live there. 

Three weeks in, your new employee (who will be the face of your business to your customers) has made national news by a) outing a transgender person (pissing off one segment of potential customers) and then b) stating how sorry he was and defending that same person and decrying HB2 as ignorant (pissing off the other segment of potential customers).  Also, your phone lines (and I'm sure inbox) are flooded with messages over this and not client leads.

I honest to god have to say I do not blame this business for saying 'you gotta go' (at least for awhile) to Varner under these circumstances. 

ETA: None of this is meant to imply that fans of reality tv shows who are pissed at a contestant and call for them to be fired from their jobs because they didn't like how they played a damn game are anything less than batshit crazy and it needs to stop.

But, wowza, just the state of circumstances where he lives, not to mention the nature of his job and the national news reports (the evening news reports!) on this, are devastating to his position in that particular job at this particular time.

Edited April 15, 2017 by pennben

[simplyme]

15 minutes ago, MsTree said:

The public outcry is getting out of hand...and folks aren't going to be happy until they totally ruin Varner's life.  The guy admittedly made a horrible mistake. What's next? Burning at the cross?

Public outcry? The company fired him (three weeks after hiring him) because they didn't like the bad press being associated with their company. I also imagine it's difficult to sell things to people if you're really unpopular.

I don't think Varner should be stoned for making a (bad) mistake, but there are repercussions for things we say. If you say something that essentially reflects poorly on you and impacts your ability to do your job, most companies will let you go. Especially if you're a new hire.

(And the right to free speech means you can criticize the government. It doesn't mean there are no consequences for what you say.)

At this point, I do feel bad for Varner and hope he gets some positive things going soon. 

ETA: Er, apparently @pennben types faster than me.

Edited April 15, 2017 by simplyme

[himela]

I listened to Varner's interview with Rob and I was not expecting the excuses he was saying. I really wanted to forgive Varner cause I believe that 100 good things a person has done cannot be erased by one bad but his reasonings were bad. He claimed that when he met Zeke his mind just went to Russell Hantz and he jumped to the conclusion that Zeke was simply Russell, that he was this vilain who had no morals and he deserved to be punished. So when in tribal council Varner was talking about a close alliance of Zeke, Ozzy and Andrea and deception, Zeke said "there is no deception" and Varner just then was "pushed" to ask him this horrible question thinking that the audience already knew from the previous season that Zeke is trans only the players didn't know. I can't even explain this idiotic reasoning that in his mind Zeke was Russell. So what? Even if he was the most villain player of all times, did he deserve to be outed, accused and humiliated in this way? Varner should just stop talking. He should have only said, I know what I did was horrible, I wish I could undo it but I can't, I apologize and that's it. The more he talks the worst things get. I'm sure Andrea and many more people knew about Zeke being trans but they were respectful enough to let him share it at his own time, or even not share it at all.

[Brynnjk]

On 4/13/2017 at 1:50 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I disturb myself by how much I love Ozzy.  He's in my top 3 players/contestants of all time.  Number 3 I'd say.  I'm pretty much in love with him, and I completely admit he's a flawed player, and seems to turn a lot of people off, and I get it.  

I'm also in the I love Ozzy camp.  I love all the Atui 4 and I don't think I can ever stop loving them.  I agree he has his flaws but he's a joy to watch in challenges.  I wish he was more strategic but I'm just going to enjoy him for as long as I can. 

[Kelda Feegle]

17 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Yes, there is a tent where all the meds are stored and dispensed, for each tribe.

would there then have been an opportunity for Varner to see and recognise the meds that Zeke would be taking thus allowing him to come to his conclusions?

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, himela said:

I listened to Varner's interview with Rob and I was not expecting the excuses he was saying. I really wanted to forgive Varner cause I believe that 100 good things a person has done cannot be erased by one bad but his reasonings were bad.  He claimed that when he met Zeke his mind just went to Russell Hantz and he jumped to the conclusion that Zeke was simply Russell, that he was this vilain who had no morals and he deserved to be punished.

Whoa!  His mind went to Russell so he concluded Zeke was Russell? Leaving aside the fact that I never fully understood the level of hatred that stirs in most hearts for Russell,  Zeke's looks and personality seem almost opposite from Russell. But what sort of illogical, childish brain notes some sort of vague resemblance and decides that person is the other one in every way?  Who looks around at their fellow campers and decides one of them "deserves to be punished?" 

Varner is rapidly  going from a person who said something unforgivable in a moment of panic, to a venomous, dangerous, pathological person.  I wouldn't want to be alone in an empty house with him, he might decide I remind him of someone who deserves to be punished.

[himela]

English is not my first language, this is what I understood from what Varner said in the interview. Here is the link to it in case you want to listen to it http://robhasawebsite.com/survivor-2017-exit-interview-jeff-varner-podcast-game-changers/

[JudyObscure]

Okay, Himela, I listened to it although I've never listened to Rob Cesternino's* podcast before. I understood it the same way you did.   Varner  thought Zeke was just like Russell, as well as evil and malicious based on pretty much nothing.  Varner also lies again, saying  the trans question, "just popped out organically," and he had never planned to ask it.  We all heard him say earlier that day that he had a secret about Zeke that he might use.

 

* I've disliked Rob since the day he told the world that he had never had sex before, "Well, except with a fat girl."  I thought "the fat girl"  probably thought she was his girlfriend and she and all her friends had probably been home watching and rooting for him until then and I could just imagine her humiliation.

[Ms Blue Jay]

This obsession people have with Russell, as if he's literally the Devil, and Varner's like "The Devil made me do it"..... LOL.  This just makes Varner seem nuts.  Russell is a contestant on a game show. He's never outed someone for goodness sakes.  I barely remember his recent seasons.

[ghoulina]

Okay, not a Russell fan, but I also don't think he's the devil either. That being said, I would not compare Zeke to Russell, not based on anything we've seen on the show. How are their games even alike? Where is Jeff getting this from? 

And, again, even if Zeke WAS another Russell and Varner wanted to prove it - how does outing him as trans prove that??? I just can't understand that thought process. I don't think choosing to keep certain aspects of your personal life to yourself is an indication of entrenched deceptiveness. I'm sure plenty of players have things from their personal life that they don't talk about, that in no way affect their game. 

[JudyObscure]

21 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

. I'm sure plenty of players have things from their personal life that they don't talk about, that in no way affect their game.

Can you imagine the first episode if people thought they would be deemed deceitful if they didn't tell all?  I don't even think of transgendered as sexual orientation so much as medical history.   Would everyone have to out their own knee replacements, hysterectomies, breast implants, nose jobs, colonoscopy results, hormone replacement therapy, and testosterone injections?  If not, there might be a big moment at tribal council where someone said, "Jennifer isn't the pretty girl you all think she is.  When were you going to tell them the truth about those "blonde" highlights, Jennifer?"

[fishcakes]

7 hours ago, pennben said:

But, wowza, just the state of circumstances where he lives, not to mention the nature of his job and the national news reports (the evening news reports!) on this, are devastating to his position in that particular job at this particular time.

I'm sorry to hear he lost his job, although I agree with your reasoning that it was inevitable. Before he appeared on Second Chances, I read that he'd been out of work for a couple of years after losing his job as a local news anchor and was struggling with finding a new job. Being fifty-ish isn't a great age to be looking for a job, and for someone who works in the public eye, it's probably ten times harder. He's taken a lot of criticism for saying he was desperate to stay in the game because it was for a million dollars and that he was fighting for his life, but I would guess that felt true to him. Not out of greed, but because he's a middle-aged man with a shaky employment status and who knows what kind of health insurance, and who has a progressive disease that will kill him as slowly and painfully as possible. He's got COPD so all the people who are wishing great suffering on him will someday get their way. That doesn't excuse what he did to Zeke by any means, but I do understand how he could feel desperate enough to do something so recklessly cruel.

[himela]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Okay, Himela, I listened to it although I've never listened to Rob Cesternino's* podcast before. I understood it the same way you did.   Varner  thought Zeke was just like Russell, as well as evil and malicious based on pretty much nothing.  Varner also lies again, saying  the trans question, "just popped out organically," and he had never planned to ask it.  We all heard him say earlier that day that he had a secret about Zeke that he might use.

 

* I've disliked Rob since the day he told the world that he had never had sex before, "Well, except with a fat girl."  I thought "the fat girl"  probably thought she was his girlfriend and she and all her friends had probably been home watching and rooting for him until then and I could just imagine her humiliation.

Thank you for doing that Judy :)

Regarding Rob, well, I never was a fan of his when he played and my reasoning was (I know, it's stupid) that he was crazy about that skinny nobody, Heidi. I mean, what on earth turns you on from bones? Anyway, it's my personal opinion and I'm sure people like skinny girls but calling her hot? Not my cup of tea. HOWEVER when I started listening to his podcasts for BB and Survivor, I started changing my opinion for him. Of course it's now more than 10 years he has participated on Survivor and, like all of us I guess, he has grown and changed. Now I find him to be really careful with what he says about people and even those who he dislikes. One major example is the way he handled this very episode with Stephen on the Know it alls. Of course Rob now is a family guy with two kids. Also I appreciate him giving oportunities to young people in podcasting. I'm not saying he is the perfect human being but I think he has matured and grown since his Survivor times.

Also I never disliked Russell. In fact I was wondering today why I don't dislike him and why people dislike him and I came up with this explanation; I'm an introvert, I prefer to be mostly alone and I dislike social relations. Therefore I can't (in my subconcious mind) accept the social part of the game and Russell in my eyes was a near to perfect player only lacking the social part of the game which I find useless. There, I psychoanalized myself! :P

[cooksdelight]

8 hours ago, pennben said:

North Carolina is the state that passed HB2 about which bathrooms transgenders could use

And it was repealed by our new governor. 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/30/politics/north-carolina-hb2-agreement/

[Kerri Okie]

On 4/13/2017 at 5:49 AM, cooksdelight said:

They cut back on alcohol because people were getting drunk and doing/saying stupid shit.

Apparently beer wasn't necessary for that to happen.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Kerri Okie

[peachmangosteen]

16 hours ago, pamplemousse said:

I'd rather know more about Zeke's feelings and spend more time on that and I don't even like him all that much (although I do think he handled the situation very well).

Zeke was apparently quite involved in how this episode was presented, so I'm assuming that if he said much during TC (And I'm not so sure he did. There for awhile he looked stone-cold shocked and like he was having an out-of-body experience.) that he was OK with or even asked for it to not be shown. 

I took Varner saying that Zeke reminded him of Russell to simply mean that Zeke was someone no one knew anything about, like how no one knew anything about Russell in HvV. It still doesn't make any sense though that he went from that to "And so he must be evil!" It's already been said a bunch and I've already said it myself a bunch, but Varner needs to shut the fuck up. His initial apology was quite well crafted imo and he should have just posted that and let it sit. I guess he's contractually obligated to do interviews, but still he should've just been short and contrite in them. I understand wanting to explain yourself, particualy in this situation, but all it does is make you look worse.

Edited April 15, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Guest]

If that TC was two hours long like they said, I wonder if Zeke's initial reaction was truly that placid.  If they went to Zeke with the 'do we or don't we air it' decision, which it sounds like they did, I think he could've asked that he be shown just sitting there quietly until his one composed response eventually came out.  

I'm not on Jeff's side but seeing 1/6th of anything can be not the most representative sample.  We know Survivor likes making villains.  And this season has been a little dull so far so they might have felt doubly compelled to fan the flames here a bit.

[himela]

Varner has said that cbs did a good job with the editing. I think that he would not be so apologetic and almost crying in his interviews if things hadn't have happened the way they were shown.

[innocuouspuff]

Did anyone else hear on Rob Cesternino's exit interview, Jeff strongly implying that Zeke came out to him during their beach talk? Rob asked how Jeff knew and Jeff was like, oh, we had a long talk about everything. Which from other interviews and what we know about Zeke is probably not what happened. I do believe Jeff is sorry, but it would be easier to feel supportive if Jeff wasn't still gaming and politicking this situation.

Metamorphosis could also refer to the 34 season evolution of the game itself?

[Nashville]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Whoa!  His mind went to Russell so he concluded Zeke was Russell? Leaving aside the fact that I never fully understood the level of hatred that stirs in most hearts for Russell,  Zeke's looks and personality seem almost opposite from Russell. But what sort of illogical, childish brain notes some sort of vague resemblance and decides that person is the other one in every way?  Who looks around at their fellow campers and decides one of them "deserves to be punished?" 

Varner is rapidly  going from a person who said something unforgivable in a moment of panic, to a venomous, dangerous, pathological person.  I wouldn't want to be alone in an empty house with him, he might decide I remind him of someone who deserves to be punished.

Oh... I think you're safe, @JudyObscure.  :D  I strongly doubt even Varner believes this current pile of crap du jour into which he is currently stepping.  Simply put: Varner is still desperate for a rationalization which will, if not excuse his TC debacle, at least alleviate its severity.  

Although I would have given Varner credit for more intelligence than this demonstrates.  I mean - Varner has known this day was coming for MONTHS, so I'm certain a substantial chunk of every day since has had a not-inconsiderable amount of brainpower focused on how to deal with the inevitable fallout.  And if after months of pondering THIS weak-ass POS is the best he could come up with, I'd have expected Varner to acknowledge his actions as simply indefensible - in which case his best option would be to don the hair shirt, beat his breast nonstop, and declare at the top of his lungs, "OMIGOD WHAT DID I DO I AM SO SORRY ZEKE I AM SO SORRY WORLD I WOULD GIVE EVERYTHING TO TAKE IT BACK BUT I CAN'T SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO EXCEPT SAY I'M SORRY I'M SORRY SO SO SORRY PLEASE FORGIVE ME OH I WISH I COULD JUST CURL UP AND DIIIIIIIEEEEEE...!!!"  

Or something like that. :)  

Hey, this works in America - ask any politician.  Or Jake Blues, even.

 

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Okay, not a Russell fan, but I also don't think he's the devil either.

Brava, dear - this has to be the best sentence I've read all day.  Every literature teacher on the planet should clip this and use it in class as a demonstration of the phrase "damning with faint praise ".  :D

Edited April 15, 2017 by Nashville
Luv dem linkys.

[cooksdelight]

59 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

 

If that TC was two hours long like they sai

 

It is. Average 2 hrs long each time, we only see the snippets Probst wants us to see.

[candall]

1.  "Metamorphosis" seems like a legit choice since they would have been looking for the longest word they could think of that could reasonably be associated with the "Game Changer" theme.  Wouldn't take very long to decipher "evolve."  (One clever element was to have the letters on buoys, so they'd roll around on the ground as people were trying to visualize the word.)

 

2.  I thought pizza was an excellent choice for a food reward--a decent amount/combination of protein, carbs and fat for their deprived bodies.  There's a second-rate knockoff "survival" show where the hungry players were all invited to enjoy an entire banquet table of sugar--candy, baked goods, a freakin' chocolate fountain.  Several people were doubled over with nausea and sugar shock in 0-60.

 

3.  Zeke.  Although I wouldn't likely be patronizing any site where the response may be opposite, it means the world to me to see the universal outrage and 100% support for Zeke.  That's a "game change" that's happened during my lifetime--and I'm not all that damn old.

[Rachel RSL]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

If that TC was two hours long like they said, I wonder if Zeke's initial reaction was truly that placid.  If they went to Zeke with the 'do we or don't we air it' decision, which it sounds like they did, I think he could've asked that he be shown just sitting there quietly until his one composed response eventually came out.  

This very well may be true but I doubt it, only because Zeke is probably one of the most (if not the most) well-spoken people to ever be on Survivor.  I have no trouble believing that he could be so composed and articulate even while that ugliness was going down.