S05.E17: The Ballad Of Lady Frances

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

The police call in Holmes and Watson to consult on a homicide "heard" by a cutting edge gunshot detection system when they can't find any tangible evidence that a crime was committed. Meanwhile, Sherlock and Joan become suspicious of Shinwell when he becomes the target of a drive-by shooting that reveals a connection between him and an unsolved murder.

Promo:

[Xantar]

I'm sorry, but have these writers seen Deadpool? Which of them thought it would be a good idea to have one of the characters repeatedly shouting, "Where's Frances?!"

[HerkyJerky]

HELP!  Even though I knew that the show was going to run long because of delays due to March Madness, my recording still cut out the last 5 minutes of the show.  Why did the councilman kill that guy?  And who does Sherlock suspect took a shot at Shinwell?  Thanks in advance...

[roseha]

I know who Sherlock suspects but I didn't catch all of why?  Quite a stunner to end the episode though.

Interesting attention to detail in this show considering there really is a NYC mayoral election coming up this year.  The whole plot about the guitar was sad to me as Chuck Berry had just passed away.

Yet again Sherlock finds a shocking way to wake up Joan.

Edited March 20, 2017 by roseha

[HollyG]

47 minutes ago, HerkyJerky said:

HELP!  Even though I knew that the show was going to run long because of delays due to March Madness, my recording still cut out the last 5 minutes of the show.  Why did the councilman kill that guy?  And who does Sherlock suspect took a shot at Shinwell?  Thanks in advance...

The young man that worked for the business that listened to & recorded the bullets from the beginning of the episode... (forget the name of the business)... was in collusion with the councilman. He had been recording gunshots and interjecting them into the computer system here & there which caused the police to go out on fake calls. This was to make certain areas look like they had more gun violence than they really had. And the councilman was running on a law & order platform and was making this part of his campaign.

The guy from the "bullet listening center" also stole the guitar. He erased part of the tape that gave the address where the guitar was taken after the killers retrieved it from the original thief.  When the councilman found out he killed him in anger for being so stupid and putting their operation in jeopardy. 

Sherlock accused the brother of the gang member that was killed when he was 10 years old. I didn't completely understand this... but either Shinwell killed this guys brother years earlier or he thinks he did. So he's the one that was shooting at Shinwell. But the episode ended before the guy admitted it. But if Shinwell did kill this guy (his good friend) years ago, will Sherlock & Watson turn him in for the murder? Maybe someone understands this better and can explain.

Edited March 20, 2017 by HollyG

[Eliza422]

Oh god, can someone just kill Shinwell and put thus miserable excuse for a storyline to rest? The show just grinds to a fucking halt when we have to deal with that nonsense. It sucked all life out of the main story too.

[HollyG]

I don't mind Shinwell, maybe because I've liked the actor since he was on True Blood. But I agree they need to stop all the shady stuff that seems to surround him all the time. Teach him to be a good informant and an occasional chess partner for Sherlock... maybe even solve a case or two with them once in a while. I guess the point is move the character forward or put him back in prison. Keeping him in his past drags the story down. 

[roseha]

Yes, I hate to say it but as creepy as Morland was last season, I thought the show had more drama then if only, or mainly, because of the conflict between Sherlock and his father and Joan in the middle to an extent.

The Shinwell story doesn't really work on that level for me. I was startled at the idea that he might be a murderer though it may be a tease and we will find out it's not the case.  I was totally confused about the circumstances though, it wasn't clear to me whether or if the stories surrounding the murder were matching up.

[Rascotes]

I continue to not care at all about Shinwell or his story that has nothing to do with the rest of the show.  It was nice seeing Meatloaf, though.

[possibilities]

I couldn't stand the Morland stuff, so I hope he doesn't come back.

They seem to be casting a lot of red haired people lately.

[GaT]

I thought the way it suddenly ended was weird.

[solea]

They had so many recognizable guest actors this episode (one being JLM's wife) that for once I wasn't sure who the perp was. 

Yeah, the Shinwell plot thread is usually a dud. They found an actor who is even less dynamic than LL. (I actually love LL but have never liked that she plays Watson so dully.)

Wonder if JLM is going to grow his hair back?

[vibeology]

I get that Sherlock is eccentric, but I am supposed to walk away from this episode believing that he doesn't know who Eric Clapton is? I mean, Sherlock is a knowledge sponge. He seeks out as much information as he can get his hands on. He just seemed honestly baffled by Clapton and that doesn't work for me, but maybe I misunderstood the way JLM read the line?

The Shinwell stuff is whatever. The idea that we have to grapple with Shinwell and ethics for the second time this season is too much. I think this plot it more interesting than the one were Sherlock destroyed evidence, but since we've already had that plot, this one lacks originality.

I did like this week's actual case. I knew right from the beginning that the Lady Frances (because unless she's a holdover from Downton Abbey, "the Lady Frances" as she was called in the cold open is a very strange way to talk about a person) wasn't going to end up being a woman, but I did like all the twists and turns we took getting to the conclusion of the mystery.

[fastiller]

@vibeology - I agree about Holmes not knowing who Clapton is.  With Morland's connections, I can totally imagine that Holmes and Clapton were at some party together at some time!

[paigow]

Gotham reunion - Miss Kringle was the mistress? Falcone getting busted could only have been improved if Lestrade had solved the case...

[HerkyJerky]

Thanks, HollyG!  Btw, I got the vibe that he was messing with them about how he didn't know who Eric Clapton was but I could be wrong.  It just seemed like Sherlock's dry sense of humor (or humour).

[roseha]

4 hours ago, HerkyJerky said:

Thanks, HollyG!  Btw, I got the vibe that he was messing with them about how he didn't know who Eric Clapton was but I could be wrong.  It just seemed like Sherlock's dry sense of humor (or humour).

Oh, totally, I was sure Sherlock was being very sardonic in asking if they knew who Clapton was.

[UncleChuck]

Quote

Oh god, can someone just kill Shinwell and put thus miserable excuse for a storyline to rest? The show just grinds to a fucking halt when we have to deal with that nonsense. It sucked all life out of the main story too.

Totally agree!  Shinwell might work as this season's "Kitty", if he were working as an apprentice to Sherlock and Joan, but just keeping him buried undercover in his old gang, doing his old gang stuff, and working for some detective that we know nothing about is just nuts.  We don't know anything about that gang--nor do we care to learn.  If TPTB believe that Shinwell and his gang make for such compelling television, then spin him off into his own show and develop those characters and stories independently.  It might be good.  But just tacked onto the storylines in Elementary all this old gang nonsense just muddles everything up. 

I like to watch Sherlock's process with Joan and Bell and Gregson--follow his progress as he sorts through each case with his unorthodox methodology, but when he just shows up to confront someone from Shinwell's past with a folder of facts that seem to have just magically appeared with no explanation or process--I am bored.

 

Normally, when Sherlock is investigating anything involving some big corporation, we KNOW that someone in that company is pulling some nasty shenanigans and Sherlock will find out.  As soon as we were in that room with all those folks listening to the tapes, I knew Sherlock would deduce that someone was pulling something.  I suspected the CEO woman or that slimy lady who worked for the Congressman.  Yet, when the CEO learned that her flunky had been faking her data, she came clean immediately with the whole truth--even though she knew her millions dollar contract was gone.  I did not suspect the flunky because he was such a fly on the wall when we first saw him, there was no reason to suspect him, and the Congressman was a surprise because normally he would hire someone for the actual "dirty work". 

Edited March 20, 2017 by UncleChuck

[Driad]

Seeing the title I wondered if this might be based on the ACD story "The Disappearance of Lady Frances Carfax" but no.

[Trey]

16 hours ago, roseha said:

Quite a stunner to end the episode though.

It certainly was! I thought it was going to turn out that the younger brother shot Shinwell's friend; even though he was only ten at the time he was probably even then determined to stay out of gangs and do something with his life.  And probably Shinwell would have known who shot his friend and that is why he is now targeted. Or not.

But we may yet get another twist in the story.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Trey
To add more thoughts.

[Moxie Cat]

19 hours ago, HollyG said:

Sherlock accused the brother of the gang member that was killed when he was 10 years old. I didn't completely understand this... but either Shinwell killed this guys brother years earlier or he thinks he did. So he's the one that was shooting at Shinwell. But the episode ended before the guy admitted it. But if Shinwell did kill this guy (his good friend) years ago, will Sherlock & Watson turn him in for the murder? Maybe someone understands this better and can explain.

My take was that Shinwell shot his friend years ago and made up the story about the liquor store to cover it up with Sherlock. However, we don't know why Shinwell shot his friend. Or maybe he didn't, and it's a cover that he needs to maintain. In any case, the brother took a shot at Shinwell after he found out Shinwell was out of jail, as payback for Shinwell killing his brother. I think it's that simple, but please someone correct me if if I'm wrong.

Like you guys, I'm usually bored/confused with the Shinwell/gang antics. They should have wrapped up the informant storyline halfway through the season and then had Shinwell recur as a helper for the main team (a la Kitty). 

Who is JLM's wife? The brunette at the company who exposed the fake gunshots?

Edited March 21, 2017 by Moxie Cat

[basiltherat]

Why didn't they think to track Shinwell's drive-by through the Shooter system?  Seems pretty damn obvious to me.  And that's more thought that the Shinwell storyline deserves (no dis to the actor).

[MisterGlass]

I enjoyed this one. There were enough familiar faces in the guest cast to keep me guessing who was responsible. 

If Shinwell is a murderer, it will be difficult for Joan.  I'm still not a fan of him, but it is more a neutral disinterest at this point.

21 hours ago, possibilities said:

They seem to be casting a lot of red haired people lately.

A league of them, even.

[wilnil]

14 hours ago, vibeology said:

I get that Sherlock is eccentric, but I am supposed to walk away from this episode believing that he doesn't know who Eric Clapton is? I mean, Sherlock is a knowledge sponge. He seeks out as much information as he can get his hands on. He just seemed honestly baffled by Clapton and that doesn't work for me, but maybe I misunderstood the way JLM read the line?

It's possible we are expected to believe Sherlock doesn't know Clapton's name. In one of the first Conan Doyle stories (maybe the very first), Watson realizes Holmes thinks the sun revolves around the Earth and tries to correct him. Holmes replies something along the lines of "...and now that I know this, I shall do my best to forget it again," explaining to Watson that he believes there is a finite amount of information a person can retain, so he wants every fact he knows to be relevant to detecting. IIRC, Elementary had Sherlock say something similar early in the series.

[Mermaid Under]

My recording also cut out because of basketball overruns.  But before I watched this online, I wanted to see if there were any comments about Michelle Hicks (Jonny Lee Miller's wife).  Since there are none, I'm hoping that her part in the show was pure nepotism, and relatively harmless. 
First, I found her oddly wooden as a model, and even more so as an actress.  Second, I just hate it when married actors work together.  For the most part, one partner is more talented than the other, and the other partner is given a pity part because of the star.  It is just uncomfortable to watch. 

In cases like Hume Cronyn and Jessica Tandy, where both partners are equally talented,  I have no issue. 

[tennisgurl]

Oh my God, again with Shinwell. Look, I don't dislike the guy, exactly, and I like seeing him work on being a CI (because it actually involves the main characters), but for the most part, its just like he's on his own show, taking time away from the leads. Why cant he just be a reoccurring character, instead of a regular? He just isn't interesting enough to carry so much of the show. And now he might have murdered his former best friend. That's going to suck for Joan. Will this lead to yet another "Is Shinwell good or bad?!?!" story, that we have already had three times? I don't care!

Anyway, it was a pretty good episode, I liked the case of the week. What a sad end to a beautiful guitar. He should get additional charges brought on him for killing an important part of rock history! It kept me guessing, but the end still added up. Although, I knew right away that The Lady Francis was a painting or some valuable collectors item or something, not a person. I was surprised no one else picked up on that until they saw the thing printed out at the dead guys secret lair.

This show really loves its False Flag operations doesn't it? They just had the guy trying to start a war with his crappy nuke home movies, and now we have this mayoral candidate making up shootings to get himself elected. I'm pretty sure there have been others too.

[basiltherat]

It was so satisfying to me that the guy who played the Evil Politician also played an E.P. in Person of Interest, which was all about surveillance -- one episode even featured a system that detected gunshots!  I'm glad the E.P. here is gonna get punished!  It was surreal when he went all "El Kabong"  on his partner in crime with Clapton's ex ax.

All this and Meat Loaf, too!

[tennisgurl]

Well, we had to put up with more Shinwell drama, but we also got some good scenes with the leads, and a solid case of the week. I guess two out of three aint bad :)

[basiltherat]

. . . as Meat Loaf once sang!

[CaptainCranky]

I'm ambivalent about the Shinwell character although I do like his demeanor. Nice to see a character that never gets excited.

[UncleChuck]

I appreciate that very loud, sudden, noises--like gunshots--might be capable of being picked up by strategic microphones, but zeroing in on a sound source to be investigated is an entirely different animal than being able to listen in (with crystal-clear clarity) on the conversations accompanying those gunshots.

Even if the system of tracking gunshots did not work, those microphones would have the ability to eavesdrop on anyone in the city, anywhere, at any time.  Seems like a great tool to use against spies, or criminals (or citizens?).  Seems to me if the police had access to listening devices of that nature, Informants like Shinwell would not be needed.  Simply activate the mikes wherever the gangbangers were conniving and plotting and poof!!--no more gangs.

[MissLucas]

Well, I was glad to see Bobby made it alive out of SAMCRO (he probably didn't, I stopped watching after season 3 or 4). Nice touch to have Mark Boone Junior as guitar expert.

The ending was confusing but everything about Shinwell is confusing.

[sinkwriter]

I liked the guy who played Joan's guitar expert. He had nice presence in the scene.

I confess, when the politician killed the guy with the guitar, my first words were, "Not with the guitar!!" Sad end to a pretty, pretty instrument.

[MisterGlass]

23 hours ago, wilnil said:

IIRC, Elementary had Sherlock say something similar early in the serie

I believe you're right.

ETA: original comment for wrong show.

Edited March 22, 2017 by MisterGlass

[jhlipton]

On 3/20/2017 at 9:22 AM, vibeology said:

I knew right from the beginning that the Lady Frances ... wasn't going to end up being a woman

I thought it was going to be a racehorse, but, yeah, not a woman.

[fauntleroy]

Somebody mentioned this before, but the audio was really terrible again this week, esp Joan. Thank goodness for CC.

[Ailianna]

On 3/20/2017 at 9:40 PM, basiltherat said:

Why didn't they think to track Shinwell's drive-by through the Shooter system?  Seems pretty damn obvious to me.  And that's more thought that the Shinwell storyline deserves (no dis to the actor).

They made a point at the beginning of the episode that it's a pilot program and only in a few areas of the city.  And it's based on a real technology, but like so many TV technologies, has been seriously beefed up for television.

http://www.shotspotter.com/

[HawaiiTVGuy]

On 3/20/2017 at 3:40 PM, basiltherat said:

Why didn't they think to track Shinwell's drive-by through the Shooter system?  Seems pretty damn obvious to me.  And that's more thought that the Shinwell storyline deserves (no dis to the actor).

There was no need to "track" the drive-by, the police actually caught the case and investigated it, that was why the detective knew about it and called Sherlock to tell him there had been a shooting.

 

20 hours ago, Ailianna said:

They made a point at the beginning of the episode that it's a pilot program and only in a few areas of the city.  And it's based on a real technology, but like so many TV technologies, has been seriously beefed up for television.

http://www.shotspotter.com/

I think another show had an episode related to this type of technology, and again, there was someone that was doing something bad to the system.  I can't remember which one, I was going to say POI, but I don't think it was that one.  I think the premise is that yes the microphones can pick up the verbal exchanges on the street, but as the company executive made clear, in order to appease any privacy rights advocates, there seems to be people who doesn't like the idea of the government having too much information, even if gathered in "public".  

[wilnil]

2 hours ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

I think another show had an episode related to this type of technology, and again, there was someone that was doing something bad to the system.  I can't remember which one, I was going to say POI, but I don't think it was that one.

Person of Interest did have an episode featuring it (using the fake trade name "ShotSeeker") in the show's final season, though it may not have been the show you were thinking of. The POI episode centered on a police department tech with a sharp enough ear to catch the system's false positives, who determined that a real shooting of an acquaintance had been concealed by being labeled a false positive. 

[kieyra]

I couldn't make it through the episode because Shinwell. I like the actor fine (and he played a 180-degree different character in True Blood, and did just fine in a show full of cheesetastic overacting). I think he's just tried to change gears to the much quieter atmosphere of this show and went too far. I mean, half the time I have to turn on captions because JLM and LL are all but whispering, so I understand why. Or he's being directed poorly. And the story is meh. 

In these situations, when a show has been on X seasons and starts throwing a lot of B plot without the leads, I tend to assume it's because the lead actors want shorter work days and have possibly negotiated things to that end. I could be way off the mark though. 

[thuganomics85]

At least they stacked the deck with a bunch of familiar faces (Mara from The Shield!  Bobby from Sons of Anarchy!  Miss Kringle from Gotham!  Quentin from Heroes!  Meatloaf!!), but I still called it being John Doman, because, of course, John Doman would be the killer.  He's way too talented to be a mere killer of the week, but whatever, it is always good to see him!

So, now that Kitty is gone again, it is back to Shinwell, where Sherlock now discovers that he may have, in fact, killed his best friend, back in the day, and suspects the victim's younger brother is now after him.  I wish I could care more, because I really like Nelsan Ellis, but I'm just finding this entire thing to be a drag.

I couldn't tell if Sherlock was being sarcastic or he really didn't know if everyone would know that Eric Clapton was a famous musician.

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, now that Kitty is gone again, it is back to Shinwell, where Sherlock now discovers that he may have, in fact, killed his best friend, back in the day, and suspects the victim's younger brother is now after him.  I wish I could care more, because I really like Nelsan Ellis, but I'm just finding this entire thing to be a drag.

This biggest problem for the Shinwell storyline is the Elementary show structure.  While it shares elements of the types of shows (comedy, drama, even a hint of sci-fi) Elementary is essentially an English drawing room mystery.  The main bits of tension and suspense surround whodunnit and that's pretty much it.  Sure, there's stuff in the background, but generally once we learn whodunnit on Elementary, that's it for the episode.

The Shinwell shows can't work like that.  It needs to be white-knuckle tension and suspense from beginning to end.  And where there isn't physical danger there should be moral or emotional danger.  This situation should be wrought with the compromises and "lesser evils" Shinwell has to accept and perpetrate to achieve his greater good.  Think a more street version of first or second season Alias, or one of my old favorites from the 80s, Wiseguy.

However doing that right well would take a lot more time than episodes of Elementary can afford to spend.  The Shinwell story needs its own show.  I think Elementary would have been better off to keep him as a "street informant" and then maybe spend a couple of episode delving deep into the gang story as a back door pilot.  If Elementary is renewed for next season, there could be some cross-character pollination between the two shows to help build audience interest.

[Clanstarling]

On 3/20/2017 at 5:20 PM, Moxie Cat said:

My take was that Shinwell shot his friend years ago and made up the story about the liquor store to cover it up with Sherlock. However, we don't know why Shinwell shot his friend. Or maybe he didn't, and it's a cover that he needs to maintain. In any case, the brother took a shot at Shinwell after he found out Shinwell was out of jail, as payback for Shinwell killing his brother. I think it's that simple, but please someone correct me if if I'm wrong.

That was my take as well. I actually said "oof" out loud when Sherlock said Shinwell killed his friend. For me, it's the first interesting development for the Shinwell character (love the actor, underwhelmed by the character).

On 3/21/2017 at 8:00 PM, sinkwriter said:

I confess, when the politician killed the guy with the guitar, my first words were, "Not with the guitar!!" Sad end to a pretty, pretty instrument.

Me too! My husband builds guitars and it actually hurt to see that happen. I was kind of ticked though that they mentioned Jimi Hendrix as the rock and roll example for destroying a guitar (albeit with fire), when Clapton's mate - Pete Townsend - originated that killing technique. (which I also hated, but still Hendrix's move was to get one up on Townsend). I may be a little biased here.

I find it amusing that I didn't recognize any of the notables (other than Meat Loaf), but I did think the guy who stole the guitar looked sketchy in the beginning.

[basil]

Quote

It's possible we are expected to believe Sherlock doesn't know Clapton's name. In one of the first Conan Doyle stories (maybe the very first), Watson realizes Holmes thinks the sun revolves around the Earth and tries to correct him. Holmes replies something along the lines of "...and now that I know this, I shall do my best to forget it again," explaining to Watson that he believes there is a finite amount of information a person can retain, so he wants every fact he knows to be relevant to detecting. IIRC, Elementary had Sherlock say something similar early in the series.

You're correct. Holmes demonstrates it by taking a random woman's waterglass from her and adding olive oil to it, which, being heavier, displaces the water (which represents useful knowledge). They even incorporated some of the canon dialogue. I don't think Holmes ever believed the sun revolved around the earth, though, as that information would have been equally useless to him. 

My take on Holmes' reference to Clapton was that he had heard of him but didn't realize he was so famous that everyone else know of him as well.

[Calvada]

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 0:04 PM, fauntleroy said:

Somebody mentioned this before, but the audio was really terrible again this week, esp Joan. Thank goodness for CC.

I have always watched this show with CC on.  Jonny Lee Miller speaks so quickly, I found myself constantly rewinding since I was missing what he said, and Aidan Quinn is Mr. Mumbles.  So between those two, turning CC on was a must.