S02.E14: Homecoming

[bros402]

Oh wow. This episode was baaaaaaaaad. The characters acted like morons and were just like, "Sure, guy who has been held hostage for 15 years, let's give you access to EVERYTHING - no debrief or evaluation needed!"

 

"Oh, and we didn't even notice your robo-arm!"

Couldn't they have done the return of Jeremiah as a slower burn - maybe over two episodes?

[Ariah]

Well, I like Mon-El (I'm probably relishing in my obsession with patriarchy/ male domination, right?... No. I just like Mon-El). I also prefer him to Jimmy Olsen.

Still, this episode was so contrived it was painful to watch 90% of the time. Like - you know your child is nearing the hot stove, but you can't yell 'don't touch it!' kind of painful. 

So, J'on is love-sick and he loses his tactical judgement skills? What was that about? 

Kara can't see/feel her dad's metal arm? Really? The metal was undetected during medical checkup? I'm sure I'm missing something, I overslept a scene or else it's the stupidest plot hole that ever plot holed.

---

But my twisted mind keep coming back to one thing in particular.

Supergirl's sex life.

Yes.

You're telling me a girl who's skin is impenetrable to bullets has had sexual relationships with humans in the past? Yes, technically sex is many things. But maybe Kryptonians are built differently than Earth women? Because I'm pretty sure no human would be able to penetrate that defence and the result would not be limited to broken noses. Less than 4 times.

I do have a twisted mind.

[Spaceman Spiff]

7 hours ago, MarkHB said:

I will give them credit for "It's so nice to be able to do that without breaking someone's nose."

But beyond that, yeah, I was waiting the entire episode for some acknowledgement that J'onn could/should scan Jeremiah's mind.  And then his new med facility access badge gets him into the main server room?  hell, I don't work for a secret government agency and my badge doesn't get me into the machine room!

 The thing that got me, and happens in a lot of shows, shooting up the monitors, does not destroy a computer system.

[ottoDbusdriver]

9 hours ago, benteen said:

So this episode relies on everyone being stupid.  Seriously, no one takes any kind of security measures when Jeremiah comes back?  Everyone involved in running the DEO is compromised when it comes to him and nobody on the outside takes any kind of security measures?  Just plain stupid.

Also heard in the newscast at the beginning that Supergirl foiled 5 bank robberies in the morning.  5?  How much of a crime-ridden hellhole is National City?

That does seem like an excessive amount of bank robberies all early in the morning .... on the same day ..... in the same city.  The news reporters weren't even concerned about this crime wave.

Why would Supergirl even be needed to help deliver a litter of puppies ?  Unless the dog giving birth was trapped in a tree or some such nonsense.

And she gave a tugboat captain some help with a tanker -- why ?  Tugboats hauling larger boats is kind of what tugboats do.
Did the captain call for help ?  Did he need Supergirl levels of help ?

28 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 The thing that got me, and happens in a lot of shows, shooting up the monitors, does not destroy a computer system.

This still boggles the mind to no end.  And it's not even just this show, a lot of shows seem to think that's how computers work.

[MarkHB]

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Remember Max Lord?

The show remembered him this week!  The trap location was at Lord Technologies!

 

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I can't remember what happened to T.O. Morrow.

He's dead, Jim.  Hopefully he exists on Earth-1 so maybe we'll get a GOOD Red Tornado instead of an evil one.

 

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 The thing that got me, and happens in a lot of shows, shooting up the monitors, does not destroy a computer system.

Maybe they were really-really souped up iMac's?  :)

[benteen]

5 hours ago, bros402 said:

Oh wow. This episode was baaaaaaaaad. The characters acted like morons and were just like, "Sure, guy who has been held hostage for 15 years, let's give you access to EVERYTHING - no debrief or evaluation needed!"

 

"Oh, and we didn't even notice your robo-arm!"

Couldn't they have done the return of Jeremiah as a slower burn - maybe over two episodes?

Seriously.  Someone who was held prisoner for 12 hours would be kept off of duty pending evaluation, debrief and just to help them cope with what they've been through.  Someone held 15 years?  There's no way they'd be working there the next day.

Not to mention the lack of oversight at the DEO.  J'onn, Alex and Kara have a complete conflict of interest where Jeremiah is involved and might not see things straight.  Even Mon-El would have some kind of conflict since Jeremiah saved him.  Someone somewhere should have realized this and realize they cannot be counted on to objectively decide when Jeremiah should return to the DEO.

Edited February 28, 2017 by benteen

[cambridgeguy]

I'm not sure how Jeremiah managed to get away at the end.  Fancy arm or not he's not the Flash and he was delayed by his talk with Alex - Kara had more than enough time after fixing the rails to fly back, scan the forest, and round him up.

Also convenient for Jeremiah that J'onn tends to forget his phasing abilities.  That last punch had a bit of a wind up and J'onn just stood there.

It's also unbelievable that Kara, Alex, and Eliza wouldn't be moping together instead of splitting up. 

[Winston Wolfe]

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Also convenient for Jeremiah that J'onn tends to forget his phasing abilities.  That last punch had a bit of a wind up and J'onn just stood there.

So happy someone else noticed that.  It took Jeremiah about 5 minutes to deliver that knockout blow (it literally was like watching paint dry).  You mean to tell me J'onn couldn't have turned intangible, phased behind Jeremiah and beat the crap out of him?  Even though Superman was quoted last year as saying J'onn was the "most powerful being on the planet," dude is virtually useless in a fight.  At least we did get to see him use his Martian Vision for the first time last night.

[Chicago Redshirt]

4 hours ago, Ariah said:

But my twisted mind keep coming back to one thing in particular.

Supergirl's sex life.

Yes.

You're telling me a girl who's skin is impenetrable to bullets has had sexual relationships with humans in the past? Yes, technically sex is many things. But maybe Kryptonians are built differently than Earth women? Because I'm pretty sure no human would be able to penetrate that defence and the result would not be limited to broken noses. Less than 4 times.

I do have a twisted mind.

I think the show has said that Supergirl hasn't had much luck in the romance department. So this could have been her losing her virginity, or she could have done other things with her previous boyfriends. I'm not sure how I feel with the play on "men want to go to sleep after sex while women are more energetic."

2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 The thing that got me, and happens in a lot of shows, shooting up the monitors, does not destroy a computer system.

Jeremiah downloaded info from the computer system by putting a doodad on the monitor. So perhaps the DEO's computer and monitor are integrated in a way that many computers are not. (For what it's worth, the brains behind my desktop are integrated with the monitor).

The bigger question for me is: assuming Jeremiah knew what he was doing, what's the point of trying to delay the DEO's access to that information?

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

That does seem like an excessive amount of bank robberies all early in the morning .... on the same day ..... in the same city.  The news reporters weren't even concerned about this crime wave.

Why would Supergirl even be needed to help deliver a litter of puppies ?  Unless the dog giving birth was trapped in a tree or some such nonsense.

And she gave a tugboat captain some help with a tanker -- why ?  Tugboats hauling larger boats is kind of what tugboats do.
Did the captain call for help ?  Did he need Supergirl levels of help ?

The newscast said she foiled 5 armed robberies, not necessarily bank robberies. I'd guess in the size of a big city it's not improbable that over the course of several hours there might be that many armed robberies.

Supergirl wasn't "needed" to deliver puppies or to give the tugboat captain help. She presumably just did these things because she could and was in a good post-coital mood.

[xaxat]

The Danvers girls sure know their liquor. Knob Creek bourbon for Alex and Johnnie Walker Blue scotch for Kara (season one).

[mtlchick]

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You're telling me a girl who's skin is impenetrable to bullets has had sexual relationships with humans in the past? Yes, technically sex is many things. But maybe Kryptonians are built differently than Earth women?

Someone may remember this as well but I could swear Lois and Clark did an episode around this where they were trying to figure out how being intimate would work given Kryptonian biology (they eventually did it while floating in air...yes I know) and eventually if they ever wanted to have a baby. 

 

But the most aggravating this was Jeremiah getting access so easily.  I work in a telecom company in some programs, you COULD look up what services some high level executives had, even the CEO.  But you would have to be pretty damn stupid to think "la la la, I'll just search for the CEO's name in this random database for fun!" without getting it flagged and get fired for it (which has happened.)  He's been gone for 15 years.  Just getting his job back like it was no big deal was bad.  Knowing that he was with Cadmus for most of that time should have set off some alarms, but NO.  And yet digging around for files still didn't bother Alex? She's smarter than that, show. 

[JapMo]

5 hours ago, Ariah said:

You're telling me a girl who's skin is impenetrable to bullets has had sexual relationships with humans in the past? Yes, technically sex is many things. But maybe Kryptonians are built differently than Earth women? Because I'm pretty sure no human would be able to penetrate that defence and the result would not be limited to broken noses. Less than 4 times.

LOL, Ariah...there's some fan fiction out on the web that does an excellent storyline on this. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Jeremiah downloaded info from the computer system by putting a doodad on the monitor. So perhaps the DEO's computer and monitor are integrated in a way that many computers are not. (For what it's worth, the brains behind my desktop are integrated with the monitor).

He still just shot up a workstation, which in no way should destroy data on the main servers. Most basic companies will also have fail over systems, and this being the DEO would have had multiple redundant data sets. It should not have taken Winn hours to figure what data was compromised.

This episode irritated me because it made me side with Mon El. He was the only voice of reason regarding Jerimiah's return. And what was up with Alex and being so OOC. Getting in Mon El's face, then Kara's because of their doubts, also the weepy mess she has been this season, what happened to kick ass Alex?

[Jediknight]

James and Winn should have been at the dinner.  It was for family, and they're family.

Mon-El and Winn continue to be a good team.  Mon-El's at his best when adjusting to Earth life, and when the show allows him and Winn to interact.  Because of that, we found out that Kevin's awesome.

But my goodness, everybody but Mon-El and Winn were wearing idiot hats in this episode.

[Bats27]

Honestly I don't agree with the "idiot ball" assessment.  I thought that it was quite believable (well except for J'onn to a degree).  And other shows/films have done it before without being accused of that either.

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

James and Winn should have been at the dinner.  It was for family, and they're family.

Who is this James of whom you speak?  In all seriousness, though, in other Arrowverse shows some of the "main" characters are really de facto recurring ones so I think James has become this.  Also, the three major Catco characters are either gone (Cat), transplanted (Winn), or irrelevant (James).  Part of me thinks they're just reluctant to tear down that set and completely drop Kara's "woman trying to establish her career" angle.

[Lady Calypso]

9 hours ago, Shades of Scarlet said:

It's sort of this simple.  A cute, young lead on a television show (of any gender or orientation) is going to have love interests.  S/he is not going to remain virginal.  So it's necessary to develop the love interest.  That takes time.

Now make the lead female and the alpha in the relationship in that she can physically crush the male.  Now make the two people aliens.  These are interesting issues.  And they are being handled in a way that may not be to everyone's taste, but that doesn't make those of us who happen to enjoy it wrong.  Maybe there's another show out there taking on these issues in a universally satisfying way.  I hope, for some of you, that you find it and ease your pain.  Meanwhile, I'm going to keep enjoying the heck out of seeing Melissa and the rest of this outstanding cast bring Kara Zor-El to life.  :)

I think for me, the problem is they're putting way too much focus on this love interest. Mon-El has gotten significantly more screentime than Winn, James, and even Alex and J'onn this season. His romance with Kara is hyped up to the extreme when they could have used more subtly and better writing. I think Chris Wood and Melissa Benoist have chemistry. Hell, I liked their first scene in this episode because it was very cute. What's not cute is the high school level of writing, where they get every single teen drama writing cliche thrown at them. It's like they're going through a checklist of romance points we've all seen before, and we're on episode 14. They're powering way too hard through them and there's so much focus that it's literally taking away from other characters. Alex/Maggie got one small one on one scene this episode. Mon-El/Kara got several. In an episode meant to be about the Danvers, it's a problem when Mon-El gets more screentime than Alex. 

Basically, for me, Mon-El can be fixed by better writing and not getting almost all of the supporting roles for Kara each episode. Less is more, really and truly. Mon-El shouldn't be the male lead, even though I recognize that he is by now. It should still go Kara-->Alex-->J'onn-->Winn/Mon-El/James. But right now it's Kara/Mon-El ----------------------> Alex/Maggie -----> Winn ---------------> J'onn --------------------------------> James. It's just bad writing, that's all. They managed to make the romance angle less prominent in season 1 and even if Mehcad and Melissa don't have the chemistry, it still worked out just fine, especially since James had scenes with other people and it wasn't just about Kara for him. Mon-El's purpose is to be Kara's love interest. He only really interacts with Kara, unless he has some scenes with Winn. He hasn't even had a one-on-one scene with Alex. 

So basically, I'd like him a lot more IF he was written better. The acting is just fine, and Chris Wood is really trying, but the writing for his character is bringing him way down for me. But I am now becoming convinced that he is going to sacrifice himself at the end of the season. They're burning out all these stories because he may be a goner by the end of the season. 

[JapMo]

28 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Part of me thinks they're just reluctant to tear down that set and completely drop Kara's "woman trying to establish her career" angle.

If Kara wasn't such a horrible reporter, it wouldn't be so bad.  But she is....she has no talent for it, which says a lot since she's just a character and they could make her a Rhodes Scholar if they want but I still wouldn't believe it.  Let's hope she's being paid by the DEO, cause she sure doesn't earn her keep at Catco.   So just make her part of the DEO and dump Catco, because she's never there anymore anyway.  They are doing the same over on The Flash.  Barry's hardly ever at his real job, and neither is Iris. 

[mtlchick]

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Part of me thinks they're just reluctant to tear down that set and completely drop Kara's "woman trying to establish her career" angle.

Well technically they had to recreate the set due to the move up to Vancouver but I see your point.  Outside of writing stories about Lena and the odd alien attack, she hasn't really done much since she decided she wanted to BE a journalist. 

Quote

Fuck Mon-El still not respecting Kara, and fuck the so-called feminist writers for validating a relationship like that.

And to add insult to injury, the TV reporter actually said "feminist superhero." I was taken aback because that is NOT happening right now.  And by proxy, makes me miss Cat Grant that much more.

[Chicago Redshirt]

50 minutes ago, Bats27 said:

Honestly I don't agree with the "idiot ball" assessment.  I thought that it was quite believable (well except for J'onn to a degree).  And other shows/films have done it before without being accused of that either.

Having blinders on to the return of Jeremiah is one thing, and understandable. But here are some of the ways in which characters were stupid IMO.

1. Supergirl alone, let alone Supergirl and Martian Manhunter together, could have stopped that convoy without endangering all the drivers in them. 

2. Cadmus's plan was apparently a) threaten Jeremiah to do what they want and hope that he complies b) outfit him with a bionic arm and a hacker device c) stage a transport of Jeremiah hoping that the DEO would pick up on it and rescue him d) hope that no one at the DEO picks up on bionic arm or hacking device or attempts to mind read him or do anything more than the most cursory of screenings e) hope that the DEO allows Jeremiah access to its computer systems at some point in the near future f) create a fake nuclear fission bomb scare for...reasons? (Honestly, wouldn't it have been easier to just rely on Jeremiah at some point having access to the computer systems without the need for a diversion) g) set up the railroad explosion diversion in case Supergirl showed up h) hope that Supergirl didn't take the 10 seconds it would have taken her to knock Lillian Luthor and Jeremiah out before dealing with the train.

3. OK, I get that people would give Jeremiah the benefit of the doubt. However, when he got up in the middle of the supposed crisis, it raises two questions. First, why would Jeremiah so obviously blow his cover? Second, why wouldn't J'onn or any of the other DEO folks say "Where the hell are you going?" and stop him before he gets to the elevator?

[Chicago Redshirt]

23 minutes ago, JapMo said:

If Kara wasn't such a horrible reporter, it wouldn't be so bad.  But she is....she has no talent for it, which says a lot since she's just a character and they could make her a Rhodes Scholar if they want but I still wouldn't believe it.  Let's hope she's being paid by the DEO, cause she sure doesn't earn her keep at Catco.   So just make her part of the DEO and dump Catco, because she's never there anymore anyway.  They are doing the same over on The Flash.  Barry's hardly ever at his real job, and neither is Iris. 

Well, Kara is in an exclusive position to get what are presumably the biggest stories in town: what Supergirl is up to lately. Being able to get weekly scoops on what she has done lately seems to mean she would earn her keep.

Also, the writers can put their thumb on the scale and make her seem like a decent reporter. For instance, when she agreed to look into the missing girl story, Snapper was right from a journalistic perspective -- absent more information, there are likely dozens of missing teens and adults in a big city. There's no reason to devote staff time to looking into one, and there's doubly no reason to make promises like "I'll find your daughter." But the writers can make Kara's actions justified by saying that the girl was not just a runaway, but abducted by aliens.

I wish the writers would watch a couple episodes from Lois & Clark. In that, Lois and Clark would be reporting on something first that eventually turned into a job for Superman. It would be nice to see Kara actively being a reporter, or alternatively just have the show be about her working with the DEO full-time.

[JapMo]

14 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I wish the writers would watch a couple episodes from Lois & Clark. In that, Lois and Clark would be reporting on something first that eventually turned into a job for Superman. It would be nice to see Kara actively being a reporter, or alternatively just have the show be about her working with the DEO full-time.

Oh I LOVED Lois and Clark.  A great example of slowly building the couple, watching them interact and working together, and how they eventually get together.  It was a combination of their mutual attraction and their love of journalism and getting to the bottom of the story that made it a great show.  You are right...you saw "Clark" as much if not more than you saw "Superman" on that show.

[NeenerNeener]

I guess I'm in the minority but I like Mon-El. I'll like him even better if/when he stops being a douche, but according to the rules of tv drama that probably won't be until after the bounty hunters grab him and Kara finds out he's the actual prince of The Planet of the Douchebags. Then they'll kill him off and Kara will spend at least half a season mourning him until she's ready to date again.

[TroopinFairy]

There was a lot of eye rolling from me in this episode. Of course the dad was going to be a bad person. I like Mon-El because Kara is going to have a love interest and I'm at least glad that it's with another Alien who somewhat gets what Kara is going through. (Even thought I still think that Kara/Winn would've been cute but, that's not going to happen.) I hate this season. I feel like this show is at a stand still and doesn't know what to do with itself. I feel like we the viewers are just getting a lot of "filler" episodes. The Valentine's Day episode was cute but, what purpose did it serve. I understand the move from CBS to the CW but, I feel like the show had more freedom on CBS.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

20 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

What makes this episode kind of maddening is that probably could have even gone from decent to good if they had, instead of The Artist Formerly Known as the Prince of Daxam, made Winn the one to suspect Jeremiah.  A) Winn's got no skin in the game, so he could've voiced his concerns without seeming jealous or controlling.

And he's got experience with criminal family members.

[stealinghome]

Quote

I hate this season. I feel like this show is at a stand still and doesn't know what to do with itself. I feel like we the viewers are just getting a lot of "filler" episodes. The Valentine's Day episode was cute but, what purpose did it serve. I understand the move from CBS to the CW but, I feel like the show had more freedom on CBS.

I definitely think that the show has lost its through-line, so to speak (and a few reviews have begun to call that out). This doesn't excuse that fact, but I wonder how much of the problem may be that the show is relying on guest stars for what I guess is supposed to be the primary season-long plot, Cadmus? The biggest players in the Cadmus stuff are Lena, Lillian, Jeremiah; none are regulars, and I believe I've read that Katie McGrath, at least, was juggling other projects through most of the filming of this season. In fact, Lena was originally supposed to be a regular role. I wonder how different this season would look if Lena had ended up a regular as originally advertised.

It also doesn't help that we barely see Kara Danvers anymore. Seeing her progress as a cub reporter could have given the season some overall cohesion as well.

[bluedevilblue]

There are too many aliens on this show.   It was one thing when they were the bad guy of the week, but they are everywhere now.  That makes Supergirl less, er, super.  I'm also beginning to think it's one of the main reasons Mon El isn't working for me.  In theory, it could have been interesting, had they gone darker with his reflection of Kara's story, but they didn't.  It's not that I dislike him so much scene-to-scene or week-to-week (except seriously dude, stop ignoring what Kara says again and again), it's just that having an alien as an option for a boyfriend takes away a lot of Kara's struggles, IMO, and detracts from her overall arc.  It's too easy in some ways.  And it makes me agree with others that they've just lost sight of what they are trying to do with the larger picture, especially for their lead character.  I think that may be why the show seems such a mess (other than Alex's coming out storyline, which makes perfect sense for the character and has been very focused, and the juxtaposition of it and the rest of the storytelling is almost painful).  I'm not giving up on the show because I'm hoping they pull this Mon El story out in the end and make it more meaningful than it currently is to Kara's development.  If he ends up being the hot, somewhat immature guy the strong young woman dates because he's there and it seems easy, but she learns from that, then I'm okay with it.  If the guy who literally can't seem to do one single thing his girlfriend asks of him ends up the OTP, I'm not okay with it (and, yes, I know he can show character development, but Kara's love interests are supposed to service her character -- no pun intended -- not the other way around).  I dunno.  I guess they've just made Mon El too shallow for me to really believe Kara has any interest in him beyond the short term and only because he's cute and dating an alien is in some ways easier (although I don't think she should discount how much easier it can be to date a grown-ass man who knows who the hell he is instead of That Guy, broken noses or no).  Although maybe this is just because I'm old and don't find the Mon El's of the world cute, I find them exhausting.  Now that I think about it, I wonder if there is an age divide about how Mon El is viewed? 

I will also note that I might have more tolerance for Mon El, if they were doing a good job with Winn, J'onn, and James, the three men of Kara's life last season (albeit not all as love interests).  It's like they don't know what to do with any of these characters beyond the initial story and so they move on to the next guy, currently Mon El. 

Also, while I'm ragging on aliens, I've come to hate that stupid alien bar, something I originally thought was a good idea.  Or rather, I still think the idea was a good one, but the execution like so much else this season is lacking.  It's turned into the coffee shop in Friends, less undercover hideout than simply where everyone gathers.  And I do mean everyone.  How many freaking aliens are there here anyway?  By next season will Kara even need a secret identity?

[tennisgurl]

Poor Mehcad Brooks. I hope he is looking for work somewhere else, because he has nothing at all to work with here. I'm not a Jimmy fan (and I think his Guardian arc is all kinds of lame) but Brooks is a good actor and he deserves better.

I don't really hate Mon-El, I really don't, but I just feel like the show is pushing him WAY too hard. Like, in this episode, he was pretty much the focus, despite it very much being a Danvers family story, and everyone else had to act like a moron to get him to be the smart one. His character is just another kind of boring, no matter how hard the actor tries. At least Jimmy was pretty consistent. Mon-El goes from lovable goof to asshole dude bro scene by scene. Its just weird.

Also, everyone's reactions to Jerimiah seemed so off. First of all, everyone was just so chill with him coming back, like he had just gotten back from a two week business trip in London, instead of being held prisoner and tortured for 15 freaking years. Someone who had been through that would be a bit more messed up, right? I'm not saying he would have to be a totally wreck, but I would expect more than "well, that was unfortunate. Its dinner party time!' from him, plus his family. It just didn't feel as emotional as it should have been. And, worse, everyone is a huge idiot! You don't know what's happened in those 15 years, he could be mentally screwed up, he could be being threatened, he could be brainwashed, even without him knowing, he could be a damn robot, who knows? Those are just the possibilities beyond him actually betraying them, which he actually did. Which, come on, we all saw that one coming, right? The big shock would be that he made it home and was still a good guy. Oh, and there's a damn mind reader right there! Hello! I get that everyone was super happy to have Jerimiah back, but letting him get right back to work? Did no one here see Homeland?!

I did like Winn and his alien girlfriend. They seem cute together. "Oh, hi Winn's friend". Generally, Winn has become one of my favorites on this show, after I didn't much care for him in the start of last season. He works really well with all the cast, even Mon-El, and I like him at the DEO a lot. Its given him more of a serious, professional side that I like a lot.

[Chicago Redshirt]

^Winn had a nod to this when he said he knew he shouldn't have let Mon-El borrow his Netflix password and watch 24. (One of the repeated themes of the show was that one of the people working for the Counter-Terrorism Unit was in cahoots with the terrorists). 

S1 Winn was stalkerish and out of place as an IT guy at Catco who somehow knew how to do these amazing things. The writing for the character has been better, as it has focused on him being an adorkable source of comic relief and tech miracles (and the occasional bit of emotional support and advice) rather than a) his angst and daddy issues b) his overstated best friendship with Kara c) his mistaken belief that his friendship with Kara meant they should have a romantic relationship.

[bluedevilblue]

I'm really confused as to how you mess up Jimmy Olsen.  I wasn't a huge fan of Kara/James, mostly because the characters had no spark.  I don't mean the actors, I mean the characters -- there was not much tension between them on the page (which meant any chemistry relied entirely on the actors to generate, not an easy thing).  But Jimmy Olsen is a mainstay of the Super-world and it's painful for them to just not have anything for him to do, although some of that is tied to their lack of interest in the reporting part of the show since he's a news photographer.  If the media company actually functioned as a news operation, he'd have more to do naturally.  I think it's particularly disappointing because not only do they have a good actor in the role, but they went to the effort of making James African-American, which while I'm not a D.C. comics expert would seem like a sort-of big deal, and now they have no idea what to do with him. 

I really wish the ratings had been better on CBS because the show was better there, even with the stuff that didn't always work.  The network seemed to require the show to be a bit more focused and I know that led to a few episodes that maybe were too procedural, but at least it felt like the overall show had a purpose.  Or maybe I just miss Cat.

[LisaM]

I thought this was a really stupid episode. Jeremiah comes back from captivity after 14 years -- and the cynical, highly trained professionals at the DEO lose their minds because they are so overwhelmed with his return? The only person who can see through the glorious haze is Mon-El? Sorry, I don't buy it.

I really like Alex/Maggie but Alex has lost her edge as a DEO agent since this storyline took off. Previously Alex was shown to be smart, tough as nails, always prepared and sharp as hell....It's as though she has lost those qualities once she fell for Maggie - which is a shame and a bit insulting because strong women can obviously fall in love and still retain their previous traits.

[Dobian]

I agree that this episode was pretty awful.  Alex has daddy issues and she and Supergirl are running off to be emo with the GF/BF when there is a nuke out there ready to destroy National City.  A million people are facing imminent destruction so let's spend our valuable time making it all about MEMEMEMEMEMEMEME!!!!  Meh, whatever.  Between the Gilmore Girls and Hank running the DEO with the security level of a convenience store, I'd be moving out of National City pronto if I lived there.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

4 hours ago, Dobian said:

 Alex has daddy issues and she and Supergirl are running off to be emo with the GF/BF when there is a nuke out there ready to destroy National City.  A million people are facing imminent destruction so let's spend our valuable time making it all about MEMEMEMEMEMEMEME!!!!

I think it's been pretty unusual that since they found out that Jeremiah was alive, they haven't spent every available waking minute trying to locate and rescue him.  It's not like when a parent dies, and you eventually come to accept it and move on with your life. How can you spend time angsting about new relationships when your father is out there, held captive by terrorists?  At least talk about the steps you've taken to find him. Ask Lena to get involved- set a trap!

It would actually have been kind of funny if Kara had said to Lena, once the latter knew the truth about her mother: "You know, I just found out that your (adoptive) mother has been holding my (adoptive) father captive for more than a decade.  Do you have any ideas?"

Edited March 1, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Dobian]

If Jeremiah is really doing a long con on Cadmus and intends to undermine their plan, why the hell is he waiting until they actually start abducting aliens and activate a bomb to nuke a major city?  Why wouldn't he just snap Lillian's neck and gank Real Hank when he's unaware?  Sabotage their secret facility?  Just makes for more drama I guess,

[Chicago Redshirt]

We don't know if Cadmus is/was actually trying to build a bomb or what it's trying to do. We know that Cadmus apparently wanted Kara to solar flare so they could draw blood from her, so that OG Hank Henshaw could use it to access the Fortress of Solitude's computer and get information about Project Medusa. (We'll handwave a) how Cadmus had any idea where the Fortress was b) how Cadmus had any idea that Kara's DNA would help it access the computers there c) how Cadmus had any idea about a Project Medusa to ask about it d) how the AI at the Fortress couldn't tell the difference between spilled Kryptonian blood and actual Kara).

It's possible that Cadmus had other purposes for Kara blood as well. In the Justice League animated series, Cadmus used DNA to make a Supergirl clone called Galatea that, unlike Bizarra, was basically a normal, possibly even a souped up version, of Supergirl. They may play with that storyline.

Anyway, we don't know what Cadmus used as the carrot and/or stick to have Jeremiah cooperate. It is certainly possible that Jeremiah didn't have an opportunity to attack either Lillian or OGHH. For instance, Cadmus might be able to shut down the bionic arm when it wants or to use it to cause him intense pain or knock him out. Despite his being able to knock J'onn out, Jeremiah may not be able to hold his own against someone who is actually going to put his all into a fight like OGHH would. Plus, I believe OGHH is all cyborg as opposed to the single arm that Jeremiah seemed to have.

[GHScorpiosRule]

This was just so ridiculous. I'd like to think that Jeremiah is being blackmailed/threatened to work for Lillian/CADMUS, and that he agreed if she agreed to let Kara live. Of course, I'm positive, that Lillian has no intention of keeping their deal/agreement, whatever.

I'm no prude by any means, but seriously? Kara just admitted to having feelings for Mon-El, so shouldn't she have seen how it went before they had sex? Talk about going too fast.

And does all of the DEO now know that Kara is Supergirl? That's the only explanation I can come up with her showing up there as Kara, and NOT Supergirl when Douchebag Fratboy exclaimed to all and sundry that they were dating. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the past, she's always shown up there as Supergirl, in her costume.

Considering that J'onn took Hank Henshaw's "skin," the first thing he should have done was scan Jeremiah. And that cyborg/bionic arm may be strong, but no way will I ever believe that Jeremiah, a human is stronger than a Martian, and that J'onn couldn't beat Jeremiah's ass. He can shape shift, for fuck's sake.

I would have much preferred if Kara had told Douchebag Fratboy, that she wanted to be alone, instead of cuddling up with him and asking him to hold her. And again, he said he would just sit there and be quiet, yet he kept yammering on and on and on, even if it was in a soft tone. The point is, he didn't shut up and be quiet, like he said he would.

And it's not that I want Kara with someone else. I don't. I just don't see why she has to have a boyfriend at all.

This episode should have been about the Danvers family, and focused on them. But noooo....can't have that, can we?

[stealinghome]

9 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

We don't know if Cadmus is/was actually trying to build a bomb or what it's trying to do. We know that Cadmus apparently wanted Kara to solar flare so they could draw blood from her, so that OG Hank Henshaw could use it to access the Fortress of Solitude's computer and get information about Project Medusa. (We'll handwave a) how Cadmus had any idea where the Fortress was b) how Cadmus had any idea that Kara's DNA would help it access the computers there c) how Cadmus had any idea about a Project Medusa to ask about it d) how the AI at the Fortress couldn't tell the difference between spilled Kryptonian blood and actual Kara).

 

  Hide contents

It's possible that Cadmus had other purposes for Kara blood as well. In the Justice League animated series, Cadmus used DNA to make a Supergirl clone called Galatea that, unlike Bizarra, was basically a normal, possibly even a souped up version, of Supergirl. They may play with that storyline.

 

Anyway, we don't know what Cadmus used as the carrot and/or stick to have Jeremiah cooperate. It is certainly possible that Jeremiah didn't have an opportunity to attack either Lillian or OGHH. For instance, Cadmus might be able to shut down the bionic arm when it wants or to use it to cause him intense pain or knock him out. Despite his being able to knock J'onn out, Jeremiah may not be able to hold his own against someone who is actually going to put his all into a fight like OGHH would. Plus, I believe OGHH is all cyborg as opposed to the single arm that Jeremiah seemed to have.

I wonder if Jeremiah told Cadmus about the Fortress, that they'd need Kara's blood to get in, etc. If James knows about it, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that Supes told the Danvers too.

I do hope Kalex will get repaired at some point...I also hope Kara remembered to tell Kal-El that Cadmus can waltz in these days!

And does all of the DEO now know that Kara is Supergirl? That's the only explanation I can come up with her showing up there as Kara, and NOT Supergirl when Douchebag Fratboy exclaimed to all and sundry that they were dating. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the past, she's always shown up there as Supergirl, in her costume.

Yeah, not that Kara and Alex were ever particularly subtle, but this episode made clear that they've given up even the pretense of keeping Supergirl's identity secret. 

Edited March 1, 2017 by stealinghome

[bluedevilblue]

Quote

I'm no prude by any means, but seriously? Kara just admitted to having feelings for Mon-El, so shouldn't she have seen how it went before they had sex? Talk about going too fast.

From what I can tell, they are driving towards the "reveal" about Mon-El's past and need Kara as invested as possible, not that sex necessarily makes you more invested in a person (except on television).  But the speed with which they are moving, just undermines the entire thing, IMO.  And I'm not entirely sure what the Mon-El reveal will be, but so far he has shown no signs of the kind of depth that almost any big backstory would seem to require.   

Edited March 1, 2017 by bluedevilblue

[JapMo]

13 minutes ago, bluedevilblue said:

From what I can tell, they are driving towards the "reveal" about Mon-El's past and need Kara as invested as possible, not that sex necessarily makes you more invested in a person (except on television).  But the speed with which they are moving, just undermines the entire thing, IMO.  And I'm not entirely sure what the Mon-El reveal will be, but so far he has shown no signs of the kind of depth that almost any big backstory would seem to require.   

Exactly, Blue.  I, too, believe the big reveal or season finale will be about who Mon-El is, and that would be fine but they have moved the relationship to breakneck speed.  He just showed up at the end of the 2nd episode, I think, and just for a second.  So since episode 3 of this season...and now it's what, episode 14?  How many episodes are there in a season, because they did not do a good job plotting and pacing.  There's no way Mon-El and Kara should be in a relationship yet.  That should be the climax (please don't kill me) of the season.  They should just now be starting to question their attraction for each other, just coming off the arguing, push-pull phase, where they can't stand each other but are constantly thrown together.  We don't know anything about Mon-El, and for those who complain that he's on too much, I bet in the final 3 episodes of the season we're going to see a lot more of him...scenes we should have seen about him all along.  Like flashbacks to his time on Daxam, aliens recognizing him at the bar, and close calls with those that are looking for him. Brief scenes that give us a glimpse of who he really is.  Because they haven't done this, and now it's like they can't figure out how they want him....the shiftless playboy prince used to getting everything he wants and thoughtless to the extreme, or the blue collar sweet, goofy newly arrived alien who is trying to change his life for the woman he loves.     

[Shades of Scarlet]

8 hours ago, JapMo said:

Because they haven't done this, and now it's like they can't figure out how they want him....the shiftless playboy prince used to getting everything he wants and thoughtless to the extreme, or the blue collar sweet, goofy newly arrived alien who is trying to change his life for the woman he loves.     

I think they're trying to write him both ways to display some internal conflict.  And he's played by a very likable actor and his chemistry with Melissa is off the charts.  I just don't see the problem, sadly. 

[RobertDeSneero]

If I were a writer on this show, Mon-El pointing out that everything was a bit too lucky/perfect to Winn, then Winn's alien love interest showing up would be a case of foreshadowing.

[Dovega]

I needed to see more of the Danvers family, this should have been a big episode for them and it didn't felt like that. What it did feel was like the writers decided to skip so many parts of the set up for the climax of this episode that everything felt unearned and stupid. The plot depended on everybody losing their neurons and that is always unforgivable.

I thought Chyler Leigh did a great job though and I really want to see what happens with Alex in the next episode. And I hope we do get the Danvers sisters scene we missed here.

I don't like Mon El's prominence and I really hate this dynamic of him constantly doing the opposite of what Kara asks him to do. I'm not interested in his character at all and I don't care about his past and wether Kara will be mad at him when she finds out the truth because it will be the same as always, she might be upset for a little while and then it won't matter at all and he'll learn how to be better. Same tedious thing every time.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Dovega

[Lazlo]

I don't understand why this show is so poor at juggling plotlines and character interaction.

The Jeremiah plotline was basically abandoned after the first couple of episodes, meaning it arrived here with no build up. Alex, the character who should have been most focused on this case was off in her own plotline with Maggie for most of the season, a good one granted, but it meant we were robbed of a lot of emotional 'oomph' here.

Still she is fortunate compared to her sister. Kara, our main character, has essentially become a supporting character in Mon-El's story arc. Now I think I like Mon-El more than most of you but that is a pretty skewed dynamic. It doesn't help that Kara's other story arc, training to be a reporter, has more or less vanished entirely. Sure we get the occassional visit to CatCo to remind us that Snapper Carr and Jimmy still exist but we get very little sense of our heroine's life outside fighting and dating Mon-El.

[AudienceofOne]

"There's no man on Earth good enough for Alex Danvers so it had to be you."

WTF. That's right up there with that time my Dad sent me a Valentine that said "no other man will ever love you like me". He hasn't sent me one since. Thank God.

Also, I knew he was evil the minute they got the 'alert' about the weapon. When someone hands you something on a silver platter at least ask a few questions.

[stealinghome]

32 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

"There's no man on Earth good enough for Alex Danvers so it had to be you."

WTF. That's right up there with that time my Dad sent me a Valentine that said "no other man will ever love you like me". He hasn't sent me one since. Thank God.

Yeah, that was a super weird line...the only saving grace was that whether or not it was intended to be, CL and FL played it off like "wow, that was super weird, must be because he hasn't socialized with normal people for 13ish years." It amuses me to imagine them getting the script and going wtf the same as we did....

[AudienceofOne]

Even better, Wynn puts a tracker on Jeremiah and the DEO sends... Supergirl and Alex. That's it. Are you fucking serious? He just stole intel from the DEO for Cadmus and they didn't break out a team? Bullshit.

"Why, Dad?"

"For you!"

"What does that mean?"

"It means if I answer that question it'll step on the finale reveal!"

Edited March 3, 2017 by AudienceofOne

[Rushmoras]

Soooo, what have we learnt from this episode:

1. If you are an old buddy of top secret government organization's director, you can practically have unlimited access to the facility. Never mind that you haven't been in the field for n years and the snooping around is considered good, because you want to know more about your daughters.

2. If you are in relationship with the said operatives daughter, never question his sneakiness, because your girlfriend will be mad at you for questioning the obvious.

3. You don't need to use mind-reading on a person, who has been kidnapped for 15 years, because he's your friend and totally not brainwashed.

[johntfs]

I did like the very end when it shows the shittier side of being Supergirl.  Kara just wants to cuddle on the couch and process her sadness and anger at her father's betrayal, but duty still calls.

[tennisgurl]

I did really like the random exchange between Mon-El and Winn about how Winn accidently hit that fish headed alien guy in the head. "He was really nice about it though" "Yeah, Kevin's awesome". That exchange just cracked me up.

[Gwen-Stacys]

On 2/27/2017 at 10:01 PM, Primal Slayer said:

They need to hire some Buffy and Nikita writers.

Word. These two shows understood female relationships and how to juggle multiple characters/storylines without outshining the main one. In Nikita, even when the two main females (Alex/Nikita) were in relationships, the show never lost sight of the fact that their relationship with each was intrinsically important. Season 1 Supergirl did fine in regards to this (the Danver girls' relationship was front and center), but season 2 has definitely dropped the ball. This episode was the first time Jeremiah had even been brought up since about mid season 2a. Weird since season 1 Alex literally left Kara behind to go searching for him, only coming back when the big Kryptonian mind control weapon (that had been looming over all of season 1) was finally put into action. I forgot Cadmus was even a thing this season. Okay, not really, but it never felt like the big threat it should've been. Cadmus is, if memory serves me correct, supposed to be a secret branch of the government, not some hodgepodge Luthor family science project. But whatever. 

All I want to know is what is the big bad this season? Cadmus or the people obviously coming for Prince Douche? Who really knows? 

Just to think, instead of having Mon el and Kara date, they could've used him as a proxy for Kara to work out her feelings of abandonment re:Clark dumping her off on the Danvers almost as soon as she arrived on the planet. They touched on it the first 2 episodes as being a "maybe" thing and then it was gone...The only story line capable of emotional impact this season (for me) was Alex's coming out story.

To bring it back to this episode, I think this just solidified that I'll probably finish out the season (by way of binging so I that can ff) and then I'm done. Sad. I used to love this show.