Sell By Date Expiration: Old Shows That Don't Stand Up To The Test Of Time

[lucindabelle]

Not to mention the happy couple might cheat trope. ARGH. Dharma and Greg, Mad About You, et al... I'm looking at you. Not what I tuned in for, and I'm not interested.

[yourpointis]

Murder She Wrote once Jessica left Cabot Cove and tried being hip/cool/coming of age. Just watch the episode where Jessica is taking a computer class. Takes me back to the days of DOS, huge floppy disks, and no mouse

 

I recall an episode where Jessica was watching a rock video being made and the secondhand embarrassment alone should still have me in therapy. The gaudy 80s makeup and clothing. I can only imagine what an episode of Dynasty or Knots Landing would look like upon re-watch now. Studios must have had a separate budget just for blusher. Yes I watched a lot of cheesy shows back then. The 80s were my teen years. Don't judge me lol.  

 

Speaking of secondhand embarrassment, any show where the cop/crime fighter is in his 60s and he always physically defeats the young 20/30ish criminal. I'm no ageist, but looking back and thinking about how Barnaby Jones, Canon, and the Equalizer always managed to defeat the bad guys and maybe ended up with only a minor scratch or small gash on their foreheads. lol I did live for those shows. 

[Aquarius]

I agree about "All In the Family."  I used to love it, now it just sounds like a bunch of unfunny people fighting all the time.

 

"Happy Days" embarrasses me, how much I liked it in the day.  I cringe when my husband turns on a rerun.

 

I like later "Bewtiched" episodes much better than the earlier ones.  I think it is because of the funky period clothing and storylines.  But then I have a fondness for that time period ala "The Brady Bunch" and "The Mary Tyler Moore Show."

[GaT]

 

Most dramas made in the eighties and early nineties I can't deal with any more because the clothes, jewelry, and hair styles make me crazy in retrospect.  I adored Miami Vice but my god, the shoulder pads, the chunky gold jewelry, the big hair, the red red lipstick!  No socks with a suit!  Argh.

 

Murder She Wrote once Jessica left Cabot Cove and tried being hip/cool/coming of age. Just watch the episode where Jessica is taking a computer class. Takes me back to the days of DOS, huge floppy disks, and no mouse

Matlock & Murder She Wrote are on the Hallmark channel late at night, & I've been putting them on as background noise. The clothing & hairstyles are so bizarre, there are grown women with mall bangs! And the shoulder pads! Everybody looks like they've got a 2X4 resting on their shoulders under their clothes. 

[ParadoxLost]

For me, standing the test of time is more about my age vs. the age of the shows.

 

Shows that I first saw as a kid in syndication, Mary Tyler Moore, I Love Lucy, Dukes of Hazaard, Starsky and Hutch, Brady Bunch, Gilligian's etc., don't feel dated (even though they are) because they were dated the first time I saw them.  They are supposed to be that way.

 

The shows that premiered when I was a kid happened to coincide with an era (the 80s and early 90's) when fashion was very faddish, so the hair and clothes makes everything feel very dated. 

 

Somewhere in the 90's, the hair got toned down and the clothes got less identifiable to certain periods of time.  So not much in the last 15 to 20 years feels especially dated to me unless it has effects that feel clunky compared to today's standards.

Edited June 12, 2014 by ParadoxLost

[selkie]

Speaking of secondhand embarrassment, any show where the cop/crime fighter is in his 60s and he always physically defeats the young 20/30ish criminal. I'm no ageist, but looking back and thinking about how Barnaby Jones, Canon, and the Equalizer always managed to defeat the bad guys and maybe ended up with only a minor scratch or small gash on their foreheads. lol I did live for those shows. 

 

Though if he had enough lead time, Robert McCall did outsource a fair amount of the hpysical stuff and grunt work to Mickey.

 

Speaking of The Equalizer, Denzel Washington is starring in a movie remake. I'm not entirely opposed to it, but worry the writing won't be good enough to update McCall's Cold War burnout to similar 21st century themes.

[DangerousMinds]

I thought I was the only one. I cannot watch it anymore, and it has nothing to do with the finale. I just don't think the characters or the situations are funny anymore. Maybe it's because it's a view of New York right before 9/11. I want to shake them out of their self-absorbed lives and say, "Don't you know what's coming?!"

I think people are far more self-absorbed today, with their smart phones and tablets and taking pictures of themselves.

[TommyD]

Growing up 'All In the Family' was absolutely appointment TV in my house.  These days on the rare occasion where I come across a rerun my initial reaction is to get excited about watching it but I've found the jokes fall really, really flat in current times.

 

My feeling about All in the Family is that it does stand the test of time.

Many of the topics that the show tackled back in the '70s (abortion, gay lifestyle, gun control, etc) are still being discussed today.

 

 Maude on the other hand, is a show that I find completely outdated. Between the evening cocktails/endless drinking, and taking tranquilizers when feeling the least bit stressed, just seems so out of touch.

Edited June 13, 2014 by TommyD

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

 

Maude on the other hand, is a show that I find completely outdated. Between the evening cocktails/endless drinking, and taking tranquilizers when feeling the least bit stressed, just seems so out of touch.

 

Oh lord. I recently saw the "Walter is an alcoholic" episode. Talk about second-hand embarrassment! The "drunk" scenes were so over-the-top, especially when drunk Maude ruins her grandson's birthday cake, and at the end when Walter slaps Maude. We were supposed to be shocked and appalled, and I was, but not for the reasons they were trying for. It was just so cringeworthy!

[ABay]

I've always hated the actor who played her husband. He's probably a sweetheart in real life, but I just can't stand him in anything I've ever seen him in.

[Jamoche]

Bewitched was supposed to be so progressive as far as female characters go - and maybe for its time it was - but all I can see is a woman who has to not only give up her position in her society but not even use her main talent at all just for a man.

 

I'm a software engineer, and when I realized my boyfriend was a technophobe that didn't respect my profession regardless of if it was me or anyone else doing it, that was one of the biggest things that made him an ex-boyfriend.

[smiley13]

 

Maude on the other hand, is a show that I find completely outdated. Between the evening cocktails/endless drinking, and taking tranquilizers when feeling the least bit stressed, just seems so out of touch.

I agree that Maude seems very dated.  I catch it sometimes on Antenna TV and realize that none of these people are pleasant to watch.  Maude was a loud blowhard.  It is hard to see what all those men who married her saw in her.  Conrad Bain, who is great on Different Strokes, is annoying on Maude.  Adrienne Barbeau was never given much to do, other than be eye candy to get men to watch, because you know they weren't watching for Bea Arthur.  

[iMonrey]

Scarecrow and Mrs. King is another one that doesn't hold up very well. Every other spy plot involved Russians, it was very much a product of the Cold War era. The hairstyles that Amanda and Francine wore don't do the show any favors either. 

[Tabbyclaw]

That's odd, because for some reason my mind always interprets the sets as window dressing and nothing more.  Watching an original Trek episode for me in like watching a stage play--the sets are just the framework.  It's when a lot MORE effort was put into sets or costumes, but they wind up looking set in a particular time period that doesn't work as a declaration of a period piece, that I have a problem.  Next Gen doesn't actually HAPPEN in the late 1980s, so all of those cues from that time is what looks odd to me.

 

I feel similarly about older outdated special effects versus newer outdated special effects. When there's a jump cut and the actor playing the vampire has been replaced by a rubber bat on a string, it's cheesy but there's a sort of silent pact with the audience where the filmmakers represent the story as best they can and we agree to recognize their intentions and pretend not to see the string. But in later works, where they're using every animatronic and CGI creature and clever camera trick they can find to make everything look perfectly realistic, there's not the same agreement. You tried to make this look real and you failed, and we can do better now so you don't get a pass for it.

[cpcathy]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Frasier. The show just reeks 90's to me, I just don't think it holds up as well.

[mightycrone]

For some reason, the Westerns shot in black and white (The Rifleman, Rawhide, etc) seem to hold up better than those shot in color (Big Valley, Gunsmoke).  Is it just because the quality of the film was better, or is there something inherently retro (and therefor classic rather than dated) about black and white in general?

[Kromm]

For some reason, the Westerns shot in black and white (The Rifleman, Rawhide, etc) seem to hold up better than those shot in color (Big Valley, Gunsmoke).  Is it just because the quality of the film was better, or is there something inherently retro (and therefor classic rather than dated) about black and white in general?

Both.

 

Also, further back I think the scripts were maybe a bit better.

[DittyDotDot]

I'd say it's probably the '60 and '70s techno-color-y effect. It was just too much color if you know what I mean. I'd say the same thing about most shows that started in Black and White and then later went into color--The Beverly Hillbillies comes to mind--the BW ones seem far less dated to me.

Edited June 23, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[ABay]

If it's in black & white, you expect it to be dated because b&w is of another time. but color is now, so you expect the content to reflect now, as well. That's my theory, anyway.

[DittyDotDot]

That's probably most of it, but the color of the '70s was VERY colorful and really sets it in the '70s, IMO.

[Snowprince]

I laughed at the Miami Vice reference. Fashion crime, ITA! Looking back, that show seemed like one long music video with long close ups and some crime fighting thrown in.

 

According to legend, that's pretty much exactly what producer Michael Mann wanted in his original premise/concept, "MTV cops".

[BellaLugosi]

My feeling about All in the Family is that it does stand the test of time.

Many of the topics that the show tackled back in the '70s (abortion, gay lifestyle, gun control, etc) are still being discussed today.

 

 Maude on the other hand, is a show that I find completely outdated. Between the evening cocktails/endless drinking, and taking tranquilizers when feeling the least bit stressed, just seems so out of touch.

 

I completely agree with this. I can watch just about any episode of All in the Family now and still enjoy it. Maude, I watched once and have no desire to watch again. 

 

One of our channels has been showing an hour long version of SNL, and in 2000/2001 it seems like every single cold open is political. It's just not that funny now.  One of the Weekend Updates had Darrell Hammond playing an African American, I think Jesse Jackson maybe? They were African Americans on the cast who could have played the part instead of Hammond in dark make up (Really!). When Dana Carvey hosted, he did a sketch called Ching Chang. This was cut from the broadcast I watched because it's edited down to an hour, they remove one musical performance and a couple of sketches. It's kind of random on what they remove, so it wasn't for the content because the Hammond thing stayed. This is only 13/14 years ago, it's not like it's from the 70's.  Then there's the Crocodile Hunter sketches where he and his wife are attacked by the animals. Yikes.  

[DoughGirl]

For some reason, the Westerns shot in black and white (The Rifleman, Rawhide, etc) seem to hold up better than those shot in color (Big Valley, Gunsmoke). Is it just because the quality of the film was better, or is there something inherently retro (and therefor classic rather than dated) about black and white in general?

I love Big Valley, but Barbara Stanwick's bright, 1960s turquoise eye shadow looked so out of place for a nineteeth century woman. Might not have been as noticeable in black and white. Maybe that's why I always thought shows like Maverick looked more historically accurate.

Edited June 28, 2014 by DoughGirl

[ToxicUnicorn]

For some reason this thread made me remember Hart to Hart.  I can't imagine that it would look anything but silly now.  Or Charlie's Angels.  Wait . they tried to update that last one, didn't they?  Did anyone watch?  (To me, Charlie's Angels will always be the second set: Kate Jackson, Jaclyn Smith, and Cheryl Ladd.)

[ABay]

Hart to Hart could work, but they'd have to tone down the conspicuous consumption a bit. It would be nice to see an already happily married couple working together, thus eliminating the endless will-they-won't-they crap that's endemic lately.

Edited June 28, 2014 by ABay

[prican58]

No one has mentioned The Andy Griffith Show or The Waltons. I think these two have stood the test of time. While they take place in a specific era the stories are about life in small towns. The stuff folks just go through on a daily basis.

 

AGS was fun and quirky with its odd ball characters and one always came away with a sense of just how to deal with folks and how to be a good neighbor. That's something that almost everyone can relate to.

 

The Waltons, to me is a great show, still. I never watched it in its first run but did watch when it first went into syndication. The Richard Thomas years were the best. It dealt with topics like religious fervor, poverty, racial issue and the War. Mostly it showed a tight knit, motley family and their neighbors and how they all took on the times (The Depression) together. It epitomizes the idea of "It takes a village". I think it holds up beautifully. My mom loves it (she's of that Gen.) and I find myself struggling to get out the door when I visit in order to finish the episode.

I'm a sentimental slob so I also think The Rifleman stands up. The biggest reason would be the relationship between Mark and Lucas. It works. When they start to play that sentimental music in the background when they invariably renew their bond, I get very "awwww!"  I like Bonanza as well. It can be very serious life and death and it can also be funny b/c Michael Landon and Dan Blocker seemed to excell. It's a period piece, I suppose yet the stories can take place in any era.  

 

I love The Honeymooners and always watch the marathon on New Years Day here in nyc. I can watch it anytime and just crack up. Now with I Love Lucy, I find that if I watch it day in and day out (it used to always air here around 10am and in the evenings) every year it can get tiresome. However if I haven't watched in ages and then I happen to watch an episode I can't believe just how crazy funny it is!   

 

Has anyone ever watched Dennis The Menace? Damn that was a bad show to begin with and I hated it as a kid. I've seen a few on Antenna TV and it still bad. But I don't think that show has a lot of nostalgia going for it anyway. 

Edited June 28, 2014 by prican58

[Actionmage]

I think Barney Miller has held up reasonably well. It can be taken entirely as a period piece, but I watched live  as it aired live for many episodes, so it's kind of like a favorite book with characters you enjoy and enjoy revisiting.

 

There were a number of comedies from the 70's that seem to be people yelling instead of speaking lines/ talking to each other. Shows like All in the Family, That's My Mama, and Maude.  It seemed to be comedies that were filmed/taped in front of audiences. I have a theory that the actors were probably more used to projecting in a stage environment and that's why many episodes seemed to have people yelling instead of speaking. Sanford and Son, though, while it had yelling, was mostly a modulated, speaking show.

 

I tend to have MeTV on as background sound, but I really enjoy Adam-12 still, which was a pleasant surprise. I think because it was mainly about the job and only a small amount about their personal life, it has stayed relatable.  I have also enjoyed Wagon Train. (I know!) Since that tends to explore the people on a particular run, I think that's why folks can watch it and still enjoy it- it's totally a character-driven story each episode. If you don't like this story, try it next episode.

 

I haven't tried an X-Files rewatch, but I'm hesitant due to fear of this happening. For me, Firefly wasn't a problem. I think I could handle Common Law ( the Michael Ealy/ Warren Kole cop show on USA), but that's only been a couple of years.

 

Maybe part of the personal equation is how much you like how the story/ies are being told. I've watched a couple of Love Boats (don't judge me!) and didn't hate them due to the characters and their stories. (For every Doc is thinking about staying with his ex, there's at least a couple trying to make the other jealous thru stupid means, though.) For shows like Adam-12 and Emergency!, the realism was close enough, whereas, for me, I have no interest in seeing Robert Stack's take on Eliott Ness and the Prohibition Era, and that was supposed to be fact-based as well.

 

Then again, I overlook La Stanwyck's make-up  in order to enjoy how kickass Victoria Barkley was allowed to be in the 1800's!  (And I loved her hats!)

[AntiBeeSpray]

 

 

I haven't tried an X-Files rewatch, but I'm hesitant due to fear of this happening. For me, Firefly wasn't a problem. I think I could handle Common Law ( the Michael Ealy/ Warren Kole cop show on USA), but that's only been a couple of years.

 

 

Yea the early episodes are a little dated, due to the clothing. That's what gets shows a lot of times. I can watch the Perry Mason tv movies well enough, but the clothing (mainly just the shoulder pads O_O...) and the hair (some of it looks like a BAD case of helmet head O_o XD) are dated. The characters, not really though :). That's what keeps me coming back. Same with The X-Files. The characters are timeless.

Edited June 29, 2014 by AntiBeeSpray

[AntiBeeSpray]

Matlock & Murder She Wrote are on the Hallmark channel late at night, & I've been putting them on as background noise. The clothing & hairstyles are so bizarre, there are grown women with mall bangs! And the shoulder pads! Everybody looks like they've got a 2X4 resting on their shoulders under their clothes. 

Gotta love the shoulder pad craze XD. Can't wear them personally, since I already have shoulders. I'd love to wring the person's neck who invented them.

[BellaLugosi]

 

Murder She Wrote once Jessica left Cabot Cove and tried being hip/cool/coming of age. Just watch the episode where Jessica is taking a computer class. Takes me back to the days of DOS, huge floppy disks, and no mouse

 

There's an episode in the later seasons that deal with virtual reality that was really something to see. One thing I did like about the show is that they would update the opening of the show, she started with a typewriter, then an electric typewriter and then to a computer. While the technology itself is outdated now, I think the show holds up. 

[yourpointis]

There's an episode in the later seasons that deal with virtual reality that was really something to see. One thing I did like about the show is that they would update the opening of the show, she started with a typewriter, then an electric typewriter and then to a computer. While the technology itself is outdated now, I think the show holds up.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Murder She Wrote. Watch it most nights on Hallmark Movie Channel. I used to have heart palpitations any time that thread was bumped up on TwoP. I thought something had happened to Angela Lansbury. Pretty much the only eps I didn't care for where the ones set in NYC and any that had Dennis Stanton (former jewel thief) without Jessica. 

[lucindabelle]

Sharing the love for Murder she wrote. Had it on DVr series until it just kept filling up. Do have to laugh at ho wherever she goes there is always a handsome and age appropriate bachelor for her to hang out with.l. But enjoy it. It's a rather sweet world, the murder and awful clothes aside.

And Angela Lansbury is a heroine, no doubt about it. Had the chance to see her in blithe spirit on broadway just a few years ago and she was really wonderful.

[chitowngirl]

Hart to Hart could work, but they'd have to tone down the conspicuous consumption a bit. It would be nice to see an already happily married couple working together, thus eliminating the endless will-they-won't-they crap that's endemic lately.

 

I would have loved Castle to be this. If Rick and Kate were already married when the show started, but keep everything else the same. It would have eliminated the endless Will They or Won't They (or Just Get Together Already!) and you'd have an even better show.

[Actionmage]

Speaking of the change from typewriters to computers, I love how series tried to figure out how to show how computer-screen graphics were going to look!

 

For the most part, it was usually what we'd call streaming live (realtime communication between people that was filmed/taped like the episode.) But then I remember Profit trying for cutting edge for the time, which makes me chuckle now. Yet, it's more the "you tried your best" and not "neener neener." The same with VR.5, but that show was trippy as it was, so while chuckle-worthy, the graphics were not bad.  

 

I'm trying to catch The Mod Squad  currently, as MeTV has it on for the summer. It holds up pretty well for what is a period piece now. It was about young, undercover cops in the 60s, but the episodes so far have hung together. They can get preachy from time to time, but mostly, as Linc is want to say, it's "solid." 

 

Rockford Files also holds up pretty well. Yes, the cars are blocks long and the lapels can rival a bird's wing span here and there, but the cases are basic and James Garner and Noah Beery( Rocky, Rockford's dad) are pretty wonderful as a family unit.

 

More on topic:

The shows where wife-spanking is a thing, I Dream of Jeannie and the Master thing (and skeevy perv  Roger!), for the most part Bonanza and Gunsmoke, and, surprising to me, Magnum, P.I.  I think with Magnum, it's because I know how the series ends and I wasn't happy with it. I watched it live, but started not watching as faithfully after the 'Magnum Dies!...or does he?!' crap at the end of S7.

 

I've also tried Love, American Style, but I can't seem to stick with the episodes. 

 

Father Knows Best and The Donna Reed Show may have the odd episode I watch through to the end, but mostly I end up flipping to another channel before the episode is done. I think it's that both shows had spunky, (for the times) progressive older daughters and then dismantled them into looking for a Mister to marry as primary goal  then schooling to help with that. College was for getting a  good job (not career) until the girls found a husband. Now, I understand that's the time period, but it's frustrating to see how pervasive that message was.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Actionmage

[ABay]

Bret Maverick and Jim Rockford are both wonderful characters and, even when the world around them looks painfully dated, will always stand the test of time. In my opinion, anyway. The RF openings really make me miss old fashioned answering machines, too.

[lucindabelle]

I so need to see Love, American Style again, just to relive my preschool days. I can still sing the music. I suspect most of the stories went right over my thre-year-old head.

[Kromm]

I would have loved Castle to be this. If Rick and Kate were already married when the show started, but keep everything else the same. It would have eliminated the endless Will They or Won't They (or Just Get Together Already!) and you'd have an even better show.

I was okay with the original premise, but what I think Castle needed to do was have a mid-run semi-reboot.  Go right from the first time they hook up, SKIP over all the nonsense in the middle, and return the next season with a full year having passed by and them being in full-on Nick and Norah mode.  Rejigger the supporting cast a bit, and treat it like a new pilot.  

 

Now The Mentalist faces the same issue.  They already just HAD a semi-reboot (where they jumped ahead a few years and brought the team into the FBI), so doing ANOTHER reboot may seem weird. but... hooking up the main characters almost demands it, I think.  Again, it's the middle stages that are going to suck the worst if they don't.

Bret Maverick and Jim Rockford are both wonderful characters and, even when the world around them looks painfully dated, will always stand the test of time. In my opinion, anyway. The RF openings really make me miss old fashioned answering machines, too.

Maverick is easy to deal with, because it wasn't in a contemporary setting even when it was made.  The Rockford files, on the other hand, requires a mental adjustment where you need to mentally/emotionally try and TREAT it as a period piece, even though it wasn't filmed with that idea in mind. The big break point between shows in this topic overall, I think, is between the old shows where you can square-peg/round-hole them into being period pieces, and those where it rather than just props interfering, there are just too many references, or a style of filming, or a kind of plot/writing that doesn't make sense to current viewers.

[ToxicUnicorn]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Frasier. The show just reeks 90's to me, I just don't think it holds up as well.

I am glad to see this opinion, cpcathy.  I think the same - in fact, I think this bothered me while it was airing.  His apartment alone used to drive me crazy and the issues were so superficial (which, for better or worse, is a lot of my impression of 90s tv).  

 

I would hazard a guess that the character Frasier, with so many specific pretensions, will be completely unrelatable in a few more years.

[ABay]

@Kromm, those are fair points. I also wonder if there's any difference in perception of datedness, or acceptance of it, if you first saw the show in reruns or if you were alive when the show originally aired? And maybe how old you were at that time?

 

Not directly on point but a near tangent, I loved Life on Mars so much I bought the DVDs after seeing one butchered episode on BBCA. I liked Ashes to Ashes well enough but it lacked the emotional punch of LoM and I think it's largely because I was young enough in the 70s to remember the decade with affectionate exasperation (and deep gratitude that decade is over), but old enough in the 80s to be fully cognizant of what was happening and not romanticize it in retrospect.

Edited July 1, 2014 by ABay

[Athena]

I am glad to see this opinion, cpcathy.  I think the same - in fact, I think this bothered me while it was airing.  His apartment alone used to drive me crazy and the issues were so superficial (which, for better or worse, is a lot of my impression of 90s tv).  

 

I would hazard a guess that the character Frasier, with so many specific pretensions, will be completely unrelatable in a few more years.

 

I never related to Frasier and still don't. He's the type of lead you laugh at and feel sorry for because he is so over the top. I think a lot of the humor holds well or at least the moments between Niles and Frasier. A lot of us on the Frasier board still watch it for comfort. I do agree that the clothing and the apartment set can take me out of the show sometimes, but Cafe Nervosa seems to have held up pretty well on viewing.

 

Following the discussion, I saw Frasier in its original airings and I was quite young then. I haven't found many sitcoms as funny as Frasier since then. Surprisingly, Seinfeld still holds OK for me as well. Frasier is still better for me though.

[St. Claire]

M*A*S*H doesn't hold up for me, at least not the later seasons. I loved that show so much when it was airing, and I used to watch the early seasons in syndication as the last few aired. During its original airing, I didn't have any issue with the anachronistic hair and non-uniform clothing (Maj. Houlihan's feathered 'do was ridiculous for wartime Korea) or with the heavy handed message storylines of the last couple seasons when Alan Alda was in more control. Now, though, those things strike me as cheesy and badly acted.

[AntiBeeSpray]

M*A*S*H doesn't hold up for me, at least not the later seasons. I loved that show so much when it was airing, and I used to watch the early seasons in syndication as the last few aired. During its original airing, I didn't have any issue with the anachronistic hair and non-uniform clothing (Maj. Houlihan's feathered 'do was ridiculous for wartime Korea) or with the heavy handed message storylines of the last couple seasons when Alan Alda was in more control. Now, though, those things strike me as cheesy and badly acted.

I don't mind some of the story lines... but Alan Alda got on my NERVES. Letting his character go off on so many tangents was just downright annoying. -_- I still love M*A*S*H for what it's worth, but I wished (in a way) that his character would have been killed off.

[St. Claire]

I think MASH in the early seasons had a more ensemble feel, which I liked, and the later seasons were the Alan Alda show.

[turnitwayup]

I was okay with the original premise, but what I think Castle needed to do was have a mid-run semi-reboot. Go right from the first time they hook up, SKIP over all the nonsense in the middle, and return the next season with a full year having passed by and them being in full-on Nick and Norah mode. Rejigger the supporting cast a bit, and treat it like a new pilot.

I could go for that. This whole delay of wedding is irritating and the poor supporting cast except Ryan basically has no story lines. It's all on Marlowe since he rather concentrate on the lackluster COTW than the chemistry of the cast and giving nice heartfelt scenes between the main and supporting characters. Who knows if anything will change with the new show runner since Marlowe/Miller are still hanging around.

[Mulva]

Upon rewatching All In The Family, I'm starting to feel a lot more sympathy for Archie. Sure, he had ignorant, wrong-headed views about race and gender roles, but he was the only one in that household who had a job. Meathead was a lazy moocher with a ridiculously naïve worldview who constantly insulted the man who was providing a roof over his ungrateful head.

[psychoticstate]

Bewitched was supposed to be so progressive as far as female characters go - and maybe for its time it was - but all I can see is a woman who has to not only give up her position in her society but not even use her main talent at all just for a man.

 

 

I love catching the old reruns of Bewitched. It was a fun and silly show (and reminds me of watching reruns on the old WTBS station in Atlanta when I was a kid) but I do agree with your post. 

 

Bewitched and The Brady Bunch (another perennial favorite) are dated to me in the sense that neither woman (Samantha and Carol) work and WTF do they do all day?  I guess we see Sam trying to fix the messes caused by her husband/mother/children/witchcraft but otherwise?  And Carol has a live-in housekeeper (although I will throw her a very small bone and say we did see her preparing meals/shopping/talking about PTA on occasion). 

[GreekGeek]

Upon rewatching All In The Family, I'm starting to feel a lot more sympathy for Archie. Sure, he had ignorant, wrong-headed views about race and gender roles, but he was the only one in that household who had a job. Meathead was a lazy moocher with a ridiculously naïve worldview who constantly insulted the man who was providing a roof over his ungrateful head.

 

Mike's opinions on women were not much more progressive than Archie's. He clearly believed he was superior to his wife, and he didn't want a female doctor removing his appendix. I always thought of him as the least likable of the four principals. 

 

I thought Gloria had some sort of a job--a saleswoman in a department store?--while Mike went to school. 

 

Anyway--I do think All in the Family hasn't held up particularly well. Some of the political topics are still timely, but most are specific to their times--Nixon, Vietnam, Watergate.

 

Murphy Brown has some dated 90's references, but I thought the sitcom heroines of the 90's, such as Murphy, Roseanne, Brett Butler, and the Designing Women, were more complex and interesting than the women on sitcoms today.

 

I think Leave it to Beaver has held up best among the 50's/60's family shows. I'm wondering if it isn't because the Cleavers had two sons and no daughters, so that the stifling traditional expectations of girls aren't an issue. It also helped that Ward and June weren't perfect; they could create problems as well as solve them. I think I'd just be irritated by Father Knows Best (even the title is annoying!) or The Donna Reed Show. I tried watching Make Room for Daddy, a.k.a. The Danny Thomas Show, starring Thomas as nightclub singer Danny Williams, and couldn't get into it at all. It doesn't help that the nightclub scene where people like Danny or Ricky Ricardo plied their trade is no more.

 

I still have affection for I Love Lucy, despite the occasional spanking scene. There were some I.L.L. knockoffs that aired around the same time, and watching them now is painful. I'm thinking of one called I Married Joan, starring Joan Davis and Jim Backus.

[BellaLugosi]

Upon rewatching All In The Family, I'm starting to feel a lot more sympathy for Archie. Sure, he had ignorant, wrong-headed views about race and gender roles, but he was the only one in that household who had a job. Meathead was a lazy moocher with a ridiculously naïve worldview who constantly insulted the man who was providing a roof over his ungrateful head.

 

I feel the same way.  Archie was ignorant, yes, he was a product of his upbringing. Mike is educated, he is supposed to know better. Even after Archie told him about why he was the way he was, Mike still attacked him at every opportunity.  And Mike was more like Archie than he would admit, anyway. It seemed to me that Mike's views were what he thought they should be, not necessarily what he thought himself. Like women are equal to men. But he didn't treat Gloria that way.  He was all for equal-opportunity policies - until it affected him.  He got on Lionel's nerves, telling him about the struggles of African Americans like he knew better.  Archie really did change over the course of the show, I feel like Mike didn't at all. 

[Portia]

I think Leave it to Beaver has held up best among the 50's/60's family shows. I'm wondering if it isn't because the Cleavers had two sons and no daughters, so that the stifling traditional expectations of girls aren't an issue. It also helped that Ward and June weren't perfect; they could create problems as well as solve them.

Agreed. LitB is surprisingly funny, too.

[ethalfrida]

Leave it Beaver is one of my favorite retro shows. Since having the DVR I've managed to watch every single episode that ran. There is, however, a lot of stifling expectations in the show. June. Gosh, she was always cleaning, cooking and deferring to Ward in "tough" situations. Never out of high heels. That, I assure everyone in younger generations, was a myth and only done on TV. Housecoats, ballet slippers, muu-muus, jeans etc were the norm. I think the closest we got to cleaning dressed up were a pair of jeans and a big white man's shirt with sneakers! At least in my neighborhook those are the things our moms wore. But I love the way she dressed (and Lucy and Ethel too). In those days one could not be dressed properly unless one had gloves and a hat. I grew up with the show in first run and never tired of it.

 

One thing we have to understand about the show ... it was the beginning of the media making parents look bad. Notice how Wally always talked about Ward clobbering him and the Beav; all the kids in the show did. They always alluded to being afraid being beaten even though they never showed it and never even mentioned that Ward had done so.