Sell By Date Expiration: Old Shows That Don't Stand Up To The Test Of Time

[Tanichka]

12 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

All those VSEs kind of fell out of favor, at least in sitcoms, I think post-Seinfeld, where they took the approach of just avoiding any serious topic.  In fact they make light quite often of very serious topics.  I've mentioned it on other threads, you ever consider how often people die on Seinfeld and how many funerals they attend?  Not just George's fiancé susan either, started long before then.  They even joke about Jerry being molested by his dentist/Bryan Cranston. 

The current crop of rebooted sitcoms is going back to VSE's, & I hate it.  Now every character is having a #metoo moment (Grace, Murphy).  Not interested.  Leave the teachable moments to daytime TV.  I feel like I'm watching Oprah or Dr Phil.  I miss the Seinfeld sensibility.  I must say that Modern Family seems to have a handle on how to do the serious stuff, for the most part.

[DrSpaceman73]

9 hours ago, Tanichka said:

The current crop of rebooted sitcoms is going back to VSE's, & I hate it.  Now every character is having a #metoo moment (Grace, Murphy).  Not interested.  Leave the teachable moments to daytime TV.  I feel like I'm watching Oprah or Dr Phil.  I miss the Seinfeld sensibility.  I must say that Modern Family seems to have a handle on how to do the serious stuff, for the most part.

I don't like the reboots in general.  Have not watched a single one of them, so I will take your word for it. 

I loved many of the shows they are "rebooting", but I don't need them done again or to return.  Its like living in the past.  There are plenty of great shows and ideas on TV.  Though I guess if you are a network TV exec and getting your tail kicked by hulu, Netflix, cable and every other new media type out their, I can see why you try to go back to whats worked in the past since nothing else they have tried has worked very well lately. 

Modern Family manages it on occasion. 

Part of it as well in terms of VSEs is so many TV shows now are mutliplot stories in each episode, harder to do a single story focus on one thing anymore.  Maybe have at least an A and B plot, if not a C and at times even a D for larger ensemble casts. 

[bmasters9]

19 hours ago, Tanichka said:

The current crop of rebooted sitcoms is going back to VSE's, & I hate it. 

You're not the only one-- I sincerely detested the original VSEs (Diff'rent Strokes, The Facts of Life, et al.)!

[theredhead77]

On 11/25/2018 at 10:05 AM, Tanichka said:

The current crop of rebooted sitcoms is going back to VSE's, & I hate it.  Now every character is having a #metoo moment (Grace, Murphy).  Not interested.  Leave the teachable moments to daytime TV.  I feel like I'm watching Oprah or Dr Phil.  I miss the Seinfeld sensibility.  I must say that Modern Family seems to have a handle on how to do the serious stuff, for the most part.

VSEs and teachable moments aren't always for the adults, or the people who are home to watch daytime TV (I'd strongly disagree that Dr. Phil should be regarded an expert in anything VSE these days). 

The #metoo moments from Grace (from Will and Grace) and Murphy [Brown] were different situations that younger viewers (and even older viewers) may have experienced and were not sure what to do with a situation that happened decades ago. The recent VSE Thanksgiving episode put ICE right in the middle of Thanksgiving, reminding everyone that these situations are very real, and happening. I'm glad they are back, glad a generation of kids, teens and young adults are seeing these [fictionalized] scenarios played out and I hope they are spawning discussion and action within their own lives.

[proserpina65]

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 5:23 PM, Macbeth said:

And Werner always said - He would quit the show if even one episode had the Nazis winning.

Robert Clary was actually in a concentration camp as a teenager.  When asked about being on Hogan's Heroes, he drew a very distinct line between his experiences and that of a POW camp.

[Tanichka]

1 hour ago, theredhead77 said:

VSEs and teachable moments aren't always for the adults, or the people who are home to watch daytime TV (I'd strongly disagree that Dr. Phil should be regarded an expert in anything VSE these days). 

The #metoo moments from Grace (from Will and Grace) and Murphy [Brown] were different situations that younger viewers (and even older viewers) may have experienced and were not sure what to do with a situation that happened decades ago. The recent VSE Thanksgiving episode put ICE right in the middle of Thanksgiving, reminding everyone that these situations are very real, and happening. I'm glad they are back, glad a generation of kids, teens and young adults are seeing these [fictionalized] scenarios played out and I hope they are spawning discussion and action within their own lives.

I doubt that younger viewers watch these shows.

[Macbeth]

37 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Robert Clary was actually in a concentration camp as a teenager.  When asked about being on Hogan's Heroes, he drew a very distinct line between his experiences and that of a POW camp.

Werner was half-Jewish and his family emigrated to the US in 1935.  John Banner and Leon Askin were both Jewish and emigrated right before WWII, and both enlisted in the US Air Force during WWII,

Hogan's Heroes was inspired by the 1953 Film "Stalag 17."    The makers were not insensitive to what happened during the war, they just limited the setting to a POW camp.

[theredhead77]

9 minutes ago, Tanichka said:

I doubt that younger viewers watch these shows.

Well, I don't know how to read ratings or where to find them, and I realize a personal experience is not representative of the whole, so that said....

I know plenty of teens and young adults (under 30) who watch both shows. Both with their parents (the teens) and on their own. No one in my tiny representative group, including their parents would be caught (or available to, since they are in school / working) watching "daytime TV". Nor would they ever take advice from someone like Dr. Phil. YYMV, of course. I think you're underestimating the demographic span of both shows.

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, Macbeth said:

Werner was half-Jewish and his family emigrated to the US in 1935.  John Banner and Leon Askin were both Jewish and emigrated right before WWII, and both enlisted in the US Air Force during WWII,

Hogan's Heroes was inspired by the 1953 Film "Stalag 17."    The makers were not insensitive to what happened during the war, they just limited the setting to a POW camp.

I was just adding what I'd read about another member of the cast, and how, as a survivor of Buchenwald, he dealt with questions about the subject matter.

Werner Klemperer's father, Otto, was a world famous conductor at the time.  I think I have a recording with him as the conductor.

FWIW, I love the show, even if some of the humor is extremely clunky.  And I used to have a big crush on Bob Crane before I found out what a weirdo he was.

Edited November 28, 2018 by proserpina65
Edited because I didn't want to sound angry or aggressive

[ByTor]

On 2/12/2018 at 3:46 AM, magicdog said:

I remember my mom loved the show - if only because she loved the idea of being able to clean a house with magic!  

Your mom and me both!  If I could clean my house just by wrinkling my nose and someone tried to stop me from doing that?  Let's say I'd do a lot more than yell :)

[Macbeth]

On November 28, 2018 at 2:46 PM, proserpina65 said:

I was just adding what I'd read about another member of the cast, and how, as a survivor of Buchenwald, he dealt with questions about the subject matter.

Werner Klemperer's father, Otto, was a world famous conductor at the time.  I think I have a recording with him as the conductor.

FWIW, I love the show, even if some of the humor is extremely clunky.  And I used to have a big crush on Bob Crane before I found out what a weirdo he was.

I love the show too. I was defending the show from previous posts written earlier not your post. 

[AwesomO4000]

On 3/28/2018 at 10:02 PM, kariyaki said:

The show Cold Case has still never seen the light of day in a DVD release or streaming.

(First time poster to this thread... just found it and read the whole thing. Very interesting.)

I remember this show. It was the only one of that type from CBS that I liked (unlike the CSI series which I found completely annoying) even though for some reason I found the platinum blonde woman investigator a little creepy? I'm not sure why. But I remember that the music was very important for the atmosphere and setting the time and place, so it would be a shame for it not to have that music.

The same thing happened to a show I loved called Crossing Jordan. I have the one season (the first one) that they were able to get most of the music rights to, but that - as far as I know - was the only season released on DVD. The music was an integral part of the atmosphere of that show too, though*** so I can see why it wouldn't be released without the music. When the reruns were on A&E, I taped as many as I could (so yup I still have VCR tapes. Same with MST3K - which the DVDs tend to be expensive.)

*** I will always love the show for introducing me to John Hiatt's "30 Years of Tears." The show bookended the pilot episode and the finale by using the song at the end of both episodes. Such a beautiful song and so reflective of the main character's issues.

More on topic. In addition to The Man From U.N.C.L.E. (I had the View Master disc!), some other shows for me that I loved as a child, but I am almost positive wouldn't hold up and so I wouldn't try to watch reruns...

• Gilligan's Island
• Land of the Lost
• H.R. Puff 'n' Stuff
• Sigmund and the Sea Monsters

And probably Speed Racer (my favorite cartoon for some reason). Though this one had a female character that was pretty progressive for the time as Trixie wasn't just "the girlfriend." She flew a helicopter and sometimes participated in the weekly adventures and/or helped out Speed Racer, so in some ways it might hold up better than other cartoons from the time.

Not as sure about Scooby Doo, though the recent crossover with Supernatural did still have some of the kitchy appeal I remember from the original, so maybe it would hold up? ...At least until the Scrappy Doo years... which even kid me didn't appreciate him.

And I agree with everything said in this thread about Family Affair... I liked it as a kid for some reason, but I'm sure it would be way outdated and awful now. And that doll! I saw the annoying (and seemingly never maturing) twins mentioned, but what about that totally creepy doll, Mrs. Beasley? How did that doll not give me - and other kids - nightmares?

Edited December 5, 2018 by AwesomO4000

[methodwriter85]

On 11/26/2018 at 5:51 AM, bmasters9 said:

You're not the only one-- I sincerely detested the original VSEs (Diff'rent Strokes, The Facts of Life, et al.)!

Aww. I loved the Very Special Episode of the Facts of Life where Tootie learns about the pitfalls of teenage prostitution or where Blair tries to help a hot "r*******" (sic) guy.

[Joe]

This may strike some people as blasphemy, but Babylon 5. Sometimes it had fantastic writing. Sometimes it had fantastically bad writing. Often in the same episode. Ease up on the speeches, JMS. And hire some better guest actors. It was a show with some great ideas, but the execution didn't always work.

[bmasters9]

12 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Aww. I loved the Very Special Episode of the Facts of Life where Tootie learns about the pitfalls of teenage prostitution or where Blair tries to help a hot "r*******" (sic) guy.

If you enjoyed them, more power to you-- I just didn't care for them, and that's why the DVD releases of that NBC comedy, and of Diff'rent Strokes (that one on NBC and ABC), have ever been ineligible for my collection, and will ever be.

Edited December 6, 2018 by bmasters9

[selkie]

On 12/5/2018 at 1:38 AM, AwesomO4000 said:

More on topic. In addition to The Man From U.N.C.L.E. (I had the View Master disc!), some other shows for me that I loved as a child, but I am almost positive wouldn't hold up and so I wouldn't try to watch reruns...

• Gilligan's Island
• Land of the Lost
• H.R. Puff 'n' Stuff
• Sigmund and the Sea Monsters

 

 

 

While the production values were crap, and the most noteworthy actor on the show was a pre-NBA Bill Laimbeer (he was a regular Sleestak as a summer job in college- they needed some really tall guys in those roles) Land of the Lost might be worth trying to rewatch because of the writing talent that included DC Fontana, Ben Bova, Theodore Sturgeon and Larry Niven. It seemed like the show was a kind of WPA-esque paycheck project for really good SF writers living in LA in the 1970s. 

Edited December 7, 2018 by selkie

[cynicat]

On 12/5/2018 at 2:38 AM, AwesomO4000 said:

More on topic. In addition to The Man From U.N.C.L.E. (I had the View Master disc!), some other shows for me that I loved as a child, but I am almost positive wouldn't hold up and so I wouldn't try to watch reruns...

• Gilligan's Island
• Land of the Lost
• H.R. Puff 'n' Stuff
• Sigmund and the Sea Monsters

To be fair, this probably stands up if the viewer is stoned, which is how most adults watched it in the 60's.  

[badhaggis]

I worked at Blockbuster Video about 20 years ago. Almost every Saturday morning we would play H.R. Puffnstuff. Every time we did would rent all the copies because the parents that came in loved it. The kids not so much!

[Hanahope]

I don't think i can watch H.R. Puff 'n' Stuff again after the last season of Goliath.

[ABay]

Aww, with the exception of Napoleon, whose sexual harassment of female coworkers would get him fired or into the Employee Assistance Program at the United Network Command for Law & Enforcement these days, I think Man from U.N.C.L.E holds up reasonably well. 

[AwesomO4000]

3 hours ago, badhaggis said:

Almost every Saturday morning we would play H.R. Puffnstuff. Every time we did would rent all the copies because the parents that came in loved it. The kids not so much!

Hee!

Aww, I loved it as a kid ...but then again I had a cute, little girl crush on Jimmy, so that helped.

And it may have been a product of the times - and the Sid and Marty Croft and Sesame Street*** era - that these kind of shows were mainstream alongside the Saturday morning cartoons when I was a kid. In addition to the above mentioned Sid and Marty shows, there were also shows like Sesame Street, The Electric Company (early Morgan Freeman and fun Rita Moreno), Mister Roger's Neighborhood, and Zoom on PBS, and shows like Thunderbirds (which I also loved) in syndication. I also grew up on Japanese monster movies as well and followed all of the adventures of Godzilla and Gamera on the Saturday Creature Double Feature (especially nice for kids in the winter up north where it could be wet and cold and be pitch dark around 4 PM.) My sister and I would get out our building bricks or coloring books and build or color and watch the monster movies.

So basically people running around in giant costumes on a television show wasn't that unusual. Hee.

*** Back before the Elmo era when Sesame Street was a little... maybe the word is edgier. Look at some of the old skits (there are a few on YouTube) and if you can find the old uncensored ones, there is some gold in there that might even go over some kids' heads, but is so funny. Aside: One of my favorite examples was from Kermit. Cookie Monster was eating parts of a letter B that Kermit was trying to give a lesson about, so that it was becoming other letters. Kermit valiantly tries to go on with his lesson, giving words that started instead with R, but with a P he declared "well the letter P starts a lot of words ...but I can't think of any right now..." Cookie eats another part, making it an F. Kermit: "okay, so we have an F. Now the letter F starts a number of words which I can think of..." Me: Almost spewing my drink on the screen. See the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QloUMRs5ryI

I'm not sure that newer version Sesame Street would stand up to adult viewing, but I suspect that vintage Sesame Street might.

5 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I don't think i can watch H.R. Puff 'n' Stuff again after the last season of Goliath.

What's Goliath?

(Do you mean Davey and Goliath?... which I also used to watch as a kid - right before Sunday School - but I saw some of an episode not too long ago and thought "nope, not the same" and I found it a little creepy? I know I shouldn't, but...)

[Hanahope]

32 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

5 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I don't think i can watch H.R. Puff 'n' Stuff again after the last season of Goliath.

What's Goliath?

(Do you mean Davey and Goliath?... which I also used to watch as a kid - right before Sunday School - but I saw some of an episode not too long ago and thought "nope, not the same" and I found it a little creepy? I know I shouldn't, but...)

No.  Its a show on Amazon Prime that stars Billy Bob Thornton as an alcoholic attorney.  Its a really good show, but the second season has a villian character who's got, lets say, perverted memories associated with the H.R. Puff 'n' Stuff show.

[AwesomO4000]

6 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

Its a really good show, but the second season has a villian character who's got, lets say, perverted memories associated with the H.R. Puff 'n' Stuff show.

Okay... that sounds just all kinds of wrong and messed up.

[aradia22]

Even when I thought I was a Republican, I was still pretty socially liberal. But I'm not as progressive and media savvy as I am now so I'm just scared to revisit a lot of shows. Particularly with the current climate, I just respond much worse to anything that stinks of sexual harrassment. I feel like there have been many leaps in how we think of healthy relationships and consent that it's a lot harder to enjoy stuff that was not offensive 10 years ago. It's also possible that I'll just be less sensitive if we ever come out of this cesspool and I'm able to be a little less prickly. Old shows with poor representation don't bother me as much as they would if they were new shows that were premiering now but I'm just a bit bored with them. 

The one I really want to revisit but I'm scared to is Gossip Girl. Younger me is convinced it was amazing. Like, in spite of its problems (which I recognized at the time) there was still some smart writing and Leighton Meester and Ed Westwick were amazing actors with great chemistry. But now I'm not sure and I'm so scared to be proven wrong. 

With every day Charmed and Glee age more but I'm not particularly motivated to rewatch either. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

On 12/6/2018 at 4:10 PM, AwesomO4000 said:

Hee!

Aww, I loved it as a kid ...but then again I had a cute, little girl crush on Jimmy, so that helped.

And it may have been a product of the times - and the Sid and Marty Croft and Sesame Street*** era - that these kind of shows were mainstream alongside the Saturday morning cartoons when I was a kid. In addition to the above mentioned Sid and Marty shows, there were also shows like Sesame Street, The Electric Company (early Morgan Freeman and fun Rita Moreno), Mister Roger's Neighborhood, and Zoom on PBS, and shows like Thunderbirds (which I also loved) in syndication. I also grew up on Japanese monster movies as well and followed all of the adventures of Godzilla and Gamera on the Saturday Creature Double Feature (especially nice for kids in the winter up north where it could be wet and cold and be pitch dark around 4 PM.) My sister and I would get out our building bricks or coloring books and build or color and watch the monster movies.

So basically people running around in giant costumes on a television show wasn't that unusual. Hee.

*** Back before the Elmo era when Sesame Street was a little... maybe the word is edgier. Look at some of the old skits (there are a few on YouTube) and if you can find the old uncensored ones, there is some gold in there that might even go over some kids' heads, but is so funny. Aside: One of my favorite examples was from Kermit. Cookie Monster was eating parts of a letter B that Kermit was trying to give a lesson about, so that it was becoming other letters. Kermit valiantly tries to go on with his lesson, giving words that started instead with R, but with a P he declared "well the letter P starts a lot of words ...but I can't think of any right now..." Cookie eats another part, making it an F. Kermit: "okay, so we have an F. Now the letter F starts a number of words which I can think of..." Me: Almost spewing my drink on the screen. See the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QloUMRs5ryI

I'm not sure that newer version Sesame Street would stand up to adult viewing, but I suspect that vintage Sesame Street might.

What's Goliath?

(Do you mean Davey and Goliath?... which I also used to watch as a kid - right before Sunday School - but I saw some of an episode not too long ago and thought "nope, not the same" and I found it a little creepy? I know I shouldn't, but...)

I love that Sesame Street skit. XD

[Chaos Theory]

There are plenty of shows that would never work in todays market but that doesn't mean the show doesn't stand up to second viewing.   I love Married With Children but its complete political incorrectness would have offended so so many people and with the internet if full force it would have gotten cancelled after the pilot.    And yet I watch reruns of it all the time and my cousin who was born after it ended loves it as well.  

[Bort]

56 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

There are plenty of shows that would never work in todays market but that doesn't mean the show doesn't stand up to second viewing.   I love Married With Children but its complete political incorrectness would have offended so so many people and with the internet if full force it would have gotten cancelled after the pilot.    And yet I watch reruns of it all the time and my cousin who was born after it ended loves it as well.  

I don't know if I agree. Married with Children DID offend a lot of people. Some lady in Michigan launched a national campaign to boycott the sponsors of the show and all it did was get more eyeballs on it. Ratings went up. Everyone I knew heard about it. The internet wasn't around, but that doesn't mean everyone was in the dark.

I think it wouldn't fly today because of the specific subject matter and the current atmosphere, but if the only difference is the internet being around, I don't think anything would've really played out much differently.

[Apprentice79]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

There are plenty of shows that would never work in todays market but that doesn't mean the show doesn't stand up to second viewing.   I love Married With Children but its complete political incorrectness would have offended so so many people and with the internet if full force it would have gotten cancelled after the pilot.    And yet I watch reruns of it all the time and my cousin who was born after it ended loves it as well.  

What was so offensive about Married with Children for some people? I liked Al because he was so unconventional.  I always felt so bad for him, nothing ever went his way, he hated his life and he was the first man on tv that went out of his way to not have sex with his wife, lol..

[Chaos Theory]

3 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

What was so offensive about Married with Children for some people? I liked Al because he was so unconventional.  I always felt so bad for him, nothing ever went his way, he hated his life and he was the first man on tv that went out of his way to not have sex with his wife, lol..

Don't get me wrong I like the show too but we now have people getting offended when someone wears a fat suit for an episode.  Married With Children was down right gleeful in its ability to make jokes at other peoples expense but then turn around and take the opposite view all at the same time.   It would make a joke about fat people then the very next joke would be about skinny people.    I think too many people would have focused on the gleeful meanness of the show without understanding the show was also making a point about that very same gleeful meanness.  

Edited May 6, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[Apprentice79]

1 minute ago, Chaos Theory said:

Don't get me wrong I like the show too but we now have a people getting offended when someone wears a fat suit for an episode.  Married With Children was down right gleeful in its ability to make jokes at other peoples expense but then turn around and take the opposite view all at the same time.   It would make a joke about fat people then the very next joke would be about skinny people.    I think too many people would have focused on the gleeful meanness of the show without understanding the show was also making a point about that very same gleeful meanness.  

That is so true, they made fun of everybody and Al  the main character got mocked the most and I always felt bad for him. I wanted him to win at least once...

[Bort]

1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

What was so offensive about Married with Children for some people? I liked Al because he was so unconventional.  I always felt so bad for him, nothing ever went his way, he hated his life and he was the first man on tv that went out of his way to not have sex with his wife, lol..

I can't imagine the slut jokes about Kelly and the implication that she slept with her teachers for grades and rich guys for money would go over very well today.

[Stats Queen]

4 hours ago, kariyaki said:

I don't know if I agree. Married with Children DID offend a lot of people. Some lady in Michigan launched a national campaign to boycott the sponsors of the show and all it did was get more eyeballs on it. Ratings went up. Everyone I knew heard about it. The internet wasn't around, but that doesn't mean everyone was in the dark.

I think it wouldn't fly today because of the specific subject matter and the current atmosphere, but if the only difference is the internet being around, I don't think anything would've really played out much differently.

No, I don’t think it would fly today because of the politically correct Twitter mob who appears to make way too many decisions these days. A new study shows that over 80% of the Tweets are from about 10% of Twitter users (and, IMO, many people don’t even have a Twitter account - I know I have one that I haven’t accessed in over 5 years, because, it’s just annoying and frustrating). Squeaky wheel gets the grease. I’ll be so happy when companies, political parties, and people in particular realize that Twitter users are not a representative sample of the American population. 

In today’s environment I also don’t think All In the Family (which was ground breaking and important) and Seinfeld (which was awesome - especially as it mocked the 4 main characters as being shallow) would have stood a chance.

As for the subject matter of Married with Children - it criticized Al’s misogyny which is important. It poked fun at everyone irregardless of gender, race, etc., etc. 

Chris Rock and Jerry Seinfeld won’t perform on college campuses anymore. 😢 They are both ireverant and funny.

[ratgirlagogo]

Eh, even when it first went on the air Married with Children was kind of a parody fuck-you to family sitcoms, just as Seinfeld was to household sitcoms - "no hugging, no learning," remember?   We absolutely did have PC back then, but we didn't have the internet or social media.  

More importantly, Amanda Bearse was one of the VERY FIRST performers to come out as gay, in 1993.  She was playing a straight character (Marcy) on MWC and in those days actors and actresses were told that if they came out as gay, then no audience could ever accept them playing a heterosexual character ever again.  She continued to play the role until the show went off the air in 1997.  So bad old MWC helped establish a precedent for lesbian and gay actors to come out publicly without suiciding their careers.

Edited May 6, 2019 by ratgirlagogo

[Irlandesa]

There are comedies with 'offensive' characters making 'offensive' jokes currently on the air.  Some intentionally.  Some not.

I do not agree that Married With Children wouldn't make it on the air.  It might look slightly different and perhaps we'd experience it in a more knowing way but the idea that social media kills the depiction of rotten characters doing non-PC things is not one I share. Writers would just re-calculate their line they don't want to cross depending on whether they want us to sympathize with them or not.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Irlandesa

[Bort]

6 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

More importantly, Amanda Bearse was one of the VERY FIRST performers to come out as gay, in 1993.  She was playing a straight character (Marcy) on MWC and in those days actors and actresses were told that if they came out as gay, then no audience could ever accept them playing a heterosexual character ever again.  She continued to play the role until the show went off the air in 1997.  So bad old MWC helped establish a precedent for lesbian and gay actors to come out publicly without suiciding their careers.

Amanda didn't seem to do much acting after Married with Children ended, though. So as an out lesbian she either had a hard time getting cast or she was more interested in directing at that point. Probably both.

[Homily]

I was so excited when a channel we get started airing The Facts of Life.  Until I caught a few episodes.  It wasn't the subject matter that bothered me.  It was the acting.  I found, for the most part, that it just wasn't all that good.  Yet I remember loving this show and thinking it was must watch TV.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2014 at 3:39 PM, MaryMitch said:

I remember as a teen I loved "Wonder Woman" - I knew it was camp, but Linda Carter was so perfect. I've been watching the reruns on MeTV every Saturday, and I can't believe how corny it is. (Linda Carter spinning into Wonder Woman is still one of my favorite TV moments, though!)

Lynda makes the show, beyond that there's not much to it although I like Lyle Waggoner. 

[Lugal]

The thing with Wonder Woman was I think that it was under the long shadow of the Adam West Batman series.  That show put the idea out there that superheroes had to be done campy, and that they wouldn't work otherwise. Don't get me wrong, I liked the Adam West Batman show, catching it in reruns growing up, but I think execs took the wrong lessons from it.  On the DVD special features, some of the ideas they had for the Christopher Reeves Superman movie were campy as hell.  It was Richard Donner that fought for a more serious take on the character , or as serious as he could do in the late 70s.

The other part of Wonder Woman is that things have moved on.  I remember their computer room with all the blinking lights and reel-to-reels and I recall that they had a car phone which was considered super advanced.  The other thing is acting styles have changed, I've caught shows from the early 90s that seem weird because of that.

And I remember when Married With Children started out, there were "Good Christian Folk" who raised holy hell about how awful the show was before it ever even premiered.  Ed O'Neill even once said: (paraphrasing) thank you Christian nutjobs for promoting our show.

[selkie]

The woman who tried to get 'Married with Children' taken off the air was part of the Romney political family

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Rakolta

The 80s were also the time when Tipper Gore was trying to tell everyone what kinds of popular music they could and couldn't listen to. The rush to find something to be offended by in the 1980s crossed political and social boundaries. 

Speaking of the 80s, we tried to watch a few episodes of 'L.A. Law' the other week when our internet was down and we couldn't stream, and while there are some good intentions on this show, it just seems really clunky by modern standards in other ways. 

[RealHousewife]

On 5/6/2019 at 9:11 AM, Homily said:

I was so excited when a channel we get started airing The Facts of Life.  Until I caught a few episodes.  It wasn't the subject matter that bothered me.  It was the acting.  I found, for the most part, that it just wasn't all that good.  Yet I remember loving this show and thinking it was must watch TV.

Haha I liked the show because it was generally light, feel-good TV.

[cpcathy]

I always watched The Facts of Life, I thought it was funny and Mindy Cohn is a fine comic actress. The thing that always bothered me about the show, even when I was a pre teen, was the horrible direction! So many "cross to stage right," "cross to stage left," etc. Scenes weren't blocked well! Really annoying!

[Bastet]

On 5/6/2019 at 7:11 AM, Homily said:

I was so excited when a channel we get started airing The Facts of Life.  Until I caught a few episodes.  It wasn't the subject matter that bothered me.  It was the acting.  I found, for the most part, that it just wasn't all that good.  Yet I remember loving this show and thinking it was must watch TV.

I was never a gotta make sure to watch/record fan, but I watched it regularly during its original airing and even watched a reunion TV movie.  But when I came across some episodes in syndication a few years back, I found it almost painful - it was so clumsy and amateur - and never tuned back in.

[2727]

This is very unfair, but I recently saw that Dobie Gillis is available on Prime and watched a few episodes.

I was seven when it first aired and for whatever reason, just adored it. That and Rocky and Bullwinkle were my favorite shows.

Looking at it now, I still think it was clever in a lot of ways, especially Dobie breaking the fourth wall. The full title is The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis but dang, the portrayal and treatment of women really makes me sigh. I did and do still love Zelda Gilroy, though.

Good to realize that high schoolers were being played by actors in their 20s back then, too.

[BigBingerBro]

1 hour ago, cpcathy said:

I always watched The Facts of Life, I thought it was funny and Mindy Cohn is a fine comic actress. The thing that always bothered me about the show, even when I was a pre teen, was the horrible direction! So many "cross to stage right," "cross to stage left," etc. Scenes weren't blocked well! Really annoying!

I watched a Fact of Life documentary once where they spoke about how in the beginning of the show there were so many girls, it was hard to get the blocking right.  Mindy Cohn was the only girl cast (I think) that wasn't a professional actress.  She did really nail it.

[Mabinogia]

2 hours ago, 2727 said:

The full title is The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis but dang, the portrayal and treatment of women really makes me sigh. I did and do still love Zelda Gilroy, though.

It was definitely a show of it's time. I loved Zelda too. She was a pretty great character. Loved Maynard too. Dobie was fine, but the show was all Maynard and Zelda for me. Mind you, I haven't watched it in ages. I might have to fire up the old Fire and check it out. 

[Blergh]

10 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

It was definitely a show of it's time. I loved Zelda too. She was a pretty great character. Loved Maynard too. Dobie was fine, but the show was all Maynard and Zelda for me. Mind you, I haven't watched it in ages. I might have to fire up the old Fire and check it out. 

  Zelda was a rather unusual character inasmuch as that she was a plain girl who was a nerd but did NOT try to hide her brains nor her affection for the boy who refused to see what wasn't the most shallow to see. Of course, it needs to be noted that, aside from the character being attracted to a boy, she was actually quite similar in character to her performer then called Sheila James but in  actuality is named Sheila Kuehl.  Zelda was such a popular character that when The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis was about to end, there was talk of spinning her off into her own show but, for reasons not disclosed at the time, this was not to be.  Miss Keuhl later revealed that she herself is a lesbian and some network exec found out and killed the proposed show. Understandably, she was devastated and felt her  life was over but, then she quickly found her purpose, enrolled in law school and become a lawyer before becoming a legislator quite vocal about women's and non-heterosexual folks' issues!  The huge irony here is that today, it's likely Zelda would have been eagerly spun off perhaps even having the character herself embracing being a lesbian. 

[Mabinogia]

2 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Understandably, she was devastated and felt her  life was over but, then she quickly found her purpose, enrolled in law school and become a lawyer before becoming a legislator quite vocal about women's and non-heterosexual folks' issues! 

Good for her! I'm glad she didn't let that rejection ruin her life. I can't say I'm surprised that they pulled the show after finding out she was a lesbian, sadly. I always felt the character was probably a lot like the actress. She just seemed so natural and normal and really likable. 

Thanks for that info. I didn't know any of that. Makes me like her even more. 

[SVNBob]

6 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Dobie was fine, but the show was all Maynard and Zelda for me. Mind you, I haven't watched it in ages. I might have to fire up the old Fire and check it out. 

If you do, also try to find the TV movie from 1988.  It was set several years later and was about Dobie's adult life running the family store (now with pharmacy...which is actually plot related) along with Zelda, with some focus on their son having the same kinds of issues Dobie did back in the day.  And there's a gag about Maynard having been lost on a deserted island for several years, lending some credence to a crossover theory.

[ratgirlagogo]

12 hours ago, 2727 said:

his is very unfair, but I recently saw that Dobie Gillis is available on Prime and watched a few episodes.

I was seven when it first aired and for whatever reason, just adored it. That and Rocky and Bullwinkle were my favorite shows.

Looking at it now, I still think it was clever in a lot of ways, especially Dobie breaking the fourth wall. The full title is The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis but dang, the portrayal and treatment of women really makes me sigh. I did and do still love Zelda Gilroy, though.

Good to realize that high schoolers were being played by actors in their 20s back then, too.

So, wait........you don't think this old show stands the test of time?????  Because for me it absolutely does.

[Joe Hellandback]

1. The Equalizer; some eps are brilliant but it has such a tendency to preach you just want to hit fast forward to more McCall/Mickey/Control/Scott interaction. 

2. Airwolf; the best stories are brilliant but it really takes a dive in quality once the Cold War warms, apparently the studio asked for it to be more of a 'family show' about a Mach-One plus stealth attack helicopter? Hence why we have stories about Airwolf getting involved with the handicapped and orphans? (Of course JMV's painfully obvious physical deterioration over booze/drugs doesn't help either).

3. Callan, overall not as good as you remember, some stories are very weak and it's largely carried by Edward Woodward and the Callan/Lonely friendship.