S03.E14: He Made A Terrible Mistake / S03.E15: Wes

[NodakFan]

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

So Atwood, a prosecutor who had just been sanctioned and fired for forging a signature, went to New York to salvage her career. This didn't happen. She presumably isn't licensed in New York because most attorneys aren't licensed in more than one jurisdiction. She'd have to apply for reciprocal admission in New York, which she won't get because of her lies and issues with honesty. What actually would have happened is that she would looked for a job in some other part of Pennsylvania.

 

Actually - attorneys who live close to a state border would likely be licensed in multiple jurisdictions.  I know I'm licensed in my home state and two border states due to work and I'm geographically much further from any border than Atwood would be from New York State. 

Granted, it's likely Atwood would not be, because she's a prosecutor who sticks with the one jurisdiction, but is she relatively new to the office (or just to us viewers)?  She may have maintained her NY license just in case.

Edited February 24, 2017 by NodakFan

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

So Atwood, a prosecutor who had just been sanctioned and fired for forging a signature, went to New York to salvage her career. This didn't happen. She presumably isn't licensed in New York because most attorneys aren't licensed in more than one jurisdiction. She'd have to apply for reciprocal admission in New York, which she won't get because of her lies and issues with honesty. What actually would have happened is that she would looked for a job in some other part of Pennsylvania.

In the world where improbable circumstance is piled upon improbable circumstance, I can buy that Atwood previously passed both the PA and NY bars some time ago, or waived in previously. In the real world, the NY Bar allows people who have practiced for five years in PA (and numerous other jurisdictions) to waive in. Atwood presumably fits that bill.

Even assuming Atwood hadn't passed the NY bar or waived in prior to this all happening, I think you can practice for the federal government without initially having a license for the state you're practicing in initially, as long as you're licensed somewhere. There are also a number of jobs attorneys might take that don't require an active license to practice law. (haven't yet seen the episode so I don't know what it said about where exactly she was going). She could also just have hoped to get in before word of her lies and dishonesty affected her PA license and before the NY Bar found out. Finally, she could throw herself on the mercy of the NY Bar and just hope she got a particularly lenient response. 

Looking for another PA job would have Atwood facing basically the same issues as applying for the NY Bar -- presumably there would be discipline reflected on her license that would prevent a sane employer from hiring her.

The bigger question is why anyone in NY (or anywhere) would hire her if they did the most cursory of background checks.

[nutty1]

2 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The bigger question is why anyone in NY (or anywhere) would hire her if they did the most cursory of background checks.

Annalise will probably make sure that doesn't happen!!

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Keepitmoving said:

Nowalk has a ton of work next season explaining to me why in the hell was it so important for Laurel's father to kill Wes or Frank if he was really the intended target and the hitman got it wrong. I mean she was screwing around with Frank for a long time, and her father knew, because he seems to keep tabs on  her, yet he didn't kill Frank back then. He had like two damn seasons to do it, yet nothing, no attempts to off him.  Now he does it? And is working with the DA? Because that hitman did get in the car with the DA and give him Wes's cell phone so...

Damn, just knowing Laurel apparently can get you killed. I was afraid for Asher and Michaela when that hitman showed up at the end to hug his old family "friend."

There was a scene earlier this season in which Laurel visits her father and asks him IIRC to track down Frank, who had gone missing. It seems plausible to me that it was only after that that Papa Laurel realized a) how sprung Laurel was up to that point on Frank b) Frank's background as a potential killer and all-around shady dude.

[Chairperson Meow]

So... I guess we learned how to get away with murder.  

1.) find a young single mother and promise you'll take care of her son

2.) follow said kid's life, in fact when he wants to go to law school-   get him off the wait list .

3.) give the kid a trophy for being the best, while you involve him in a case surrounding your husband.   But dont tell him that.

4.) In fact,  make sure all of your too students have parental issues.  Grades don't matter.

5.) get close to the girl the orphan is obsessed with-   but dispose of her when she's too much.  important-   you never kill, but your damaged associates do.

6.) Cheating husband?  Get your students to kill him.  Under your exact directions.  You also will frame your current liver, but get your former lover to defend him.  

7.) Money problems?  hire clients and turn them against each other and then turn both into jail

8.) Finally reveal theorphan's parentage

9. ) Clearly your house is going to get blown up and the orphan will be killed.   you'll be accused. 

10.) blame the dead orphan for everything. 

Congrats!   you just got away with murder!

[maraleia]

Laurel telling Connor to kill himself was homophobic because of the high suicide rates among LGBTQ people so she doesn't get a pass from me anymore.

My tolerance for story line stupidity on episodic shows is at an all time high and the confusing timeline this season got on my last nerve.

[Inquiry]

33 minutes ago, maraleia said:

Laurel telling Connor to kill himself was homophobic because of the high suicide rates among LGBTQ people so she doesn't get a pass from me anymore.

 

I'm sorry, but I really don't follow your logic. Laurel's comment did not stem from homophobia, it was rooted in her grief and Conner's general assholish behavior. The fact that suicide rates are high among LGBTQ is horrible and we should do everything we can to rectify that, but Laurel's comment had absolutely zero to do with Conner being gay.  

[rur]

Laurel does seem to be a bit of her father's daughter, since death seems to be her go-to response. Didn't she tell Frank he should be dead when he came to visit her at the hospital? 

There have already been discussions here about what an accomplished liar she is.  I took her telling people they should be dead as just revealing more about her personality. Overall, she's probably the worst of the bunch. She seemed as if she was more than willing to let Michaela get attacked in order to exact revenge for Wes. 

Edited February 24, 2017 by rur

[FormerMod-a1]

There's a lot to be angry at Conner with, but finding an unconscious/dead Wes, trying to save him via CPR and then barely making it out of the house before it blew up is not one of them. 

[Neurochick]

5 hours ago, Happytobehere said:

 

I don't know if I'll stick with the show through Season 4.  It's not just that they killed Wes with what appears to be no real game plan, motivation or plot, it's that I now can no longer even offer a passable level of support for Annalise.  She loved Wes "like a son," but she not only threw him under the bus with the quickness, but she did it to save herself and that worthless piece of crap, Connor, who I personally wouldn't open a stick of gum for.

 

What should Annalise have done?  Wes is dead, nothing is going to bring him back.  Annalise didn't throw Wes under the bus for Connor, she did it for all of them, yes, including herself.  If Wes hadn't been so obsessed with Rebecca, they probably wouldn't have killed Sam (Annalise probably would have gotten Frank to do it when she realized he killed Lila).  

This way they kind of rebooted the entire show, it was the only way to have Sam and Rebecca's deaths off of Annalise and her squad.

I'm glad Laurel's dad had Wes killed because Laurel was so self righteously pointing her finger at everybody else.

The perfect ending IMO would have been if Laurel, gun in hand went to confront Mahoney Jr. and wound up accidentally shooting, and killing Dominic instead; and THEN we, the audience, see that Laurel's dad was behind Wes' murder.  Laurel would have avenged Wes without even knowing it.

I love the editing on this show.  A brilliantly edited scene was, as Annalise is telling Corrupt DA that Wes killed Sam and Rebecca (hence the phone message), we see the flashback of Wes' brutal murder.  What was chilling about that scene was, as Annalise was saying awful things about Wes' character, we get a flashback of him try to crawl to the front door and then brutally murdered.  

I laughed at the first AA meeting.  Annalise thought the woman who'd been there for years was fucked up because she was sharing what was going on with her.  What Annalise didn't get (until the end) was the woman's sharing in the rooms kept her from being fucked up in the world.  At the end, it was Annalise who shared about what Wes really meant to her; and to me, that was the chilling part; she told the DA those awful things about Wes' character to save herself and the rest of her squad, not because she believed them.  And to me, that was the deal with the meetings, only inside the meetings can Annalise be her true self and maybe that's the tragedy of her character, she's a mask outside of the meetings.

I nearly burst out laughing when Frank got down on his knees in front of Annalise and then I realized that both Frank is right where he was in the first season, a knight pledging his loyalty to the queen.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, NodakFan said:

Actually - attorneys who live close to a state border would likely be licensed in multiple jurisdictions.  I know I'm licensed in my home state and two border states due to work and I'm geographically much further from any border than Atwood would be from New York State. 

Granted, it's likely Atwood would not be, because she's a prosecutor who sticks with the one jurisdiction, but is she relatively new to the office (or just to us viewers)?  She may have maintained her NY license just in case.

I know. I was licensed in PA, NJ, and DC. Atwood is/was a prosecutor and having a license in more than one jurisdiction wouldn't have been particularly helpful for her. Though, you are correct that she may have maintained a NY license. I don't think she's a baby lawyer. For the vast majority of this Kill Bill Get Annalise plot, she's been the lead prosecutor. My guess is that she was promoted after Asher killed Sinclair.

This entire story mostly makes me ill. Annalise is a deeply unethical person. I feel like if you had even a modicum of respect for the law as a prosecutor, you would not sink to Annalise's levels. I would much rather have watched the plot play out where the evidence circumstantially points to Annalise, but the prosecutors cannot be dissuaded of her guilt. We sort of got that, but it required hiding Wes' body, cremating his corpse, and false autopsy reports. Annalise has had career setbacks this season. Her drinking was out of control. If the prosecutors had Wes' voicemail confession, I would have loved to see a season where they charge hard at Annalise because they think she's killed Wes out of revenge instead if the foolishness where the DA is just as bad as Annalise and the Keating Kids.

[LekoBoy]

Calling it right now--Dominic is going to hook-up with Connor next season, before he is killed.

[tennisgurl]

So...that's a whole lot of information to take in. Laurels dad had Wes killed? Because...reasons? Did he mean to kill Frank? Because Lord knows Frank is the worst boyfriend choice ever, or at least if your the kind of guy who orders hitmen to off your daughters boyfriends. Also, didn't Laurels actress make a big deal about how she didn't want her dad to be some kind of cartel mafia guy, because...right now he's looking like some kind of cartel mafia guy. I liked that he was just a classic power hungry, but legit, businessman, not some Mexican cartel stereotype. I guess we are returning to the "Guess the Crime Based Totally on Name" game that Hollywood so loves*! And, laurel, I know you and Wes were close, but you were hardly married. You were together for a few months. Take a few breaths.

My God, is there ANYONE in this universe who isn't deeply unethical and corrupt? I knows the real world has plenty of both, but they seem to be so highly concentrated here! Not that they aren't interesting, but everyone in this show is at best, a hot mess, and at worst, a totally dysfunctional garbage person who shouldn't be in middle school mock trails, let alone courtrooms in a major American city.

Connor and Oliver have the weirdest up and down relationship. I just don't get them. I have always liked them, together and on their own, but they need to work out their shit before trying to progress their relationship. Also, I hope they back off Connors asshole tendencies next run of episodes. He is always a dick, but this season he has just gone too far in that direction without spending time explaining why. Because of the Wes stuff? Maybe now he can get more to his "bitchy Asshole with a Heart of Gold Somewhere in There" character. That's how I like the K5 the best. Assholes who are still likable and still have, like, a soul. Michaela and Asher, on the other hand, are on point. They're adorable and I want them to get out of all this together. Don't screw this up show!

I miss Wes. It was awful seeing him die in such an awful, brutal way. Wes could get on my nerves, especially when it came to Rebecca, but he was a decent person and didn't deserve that at all. And I miss his presence on the show in general.

* Watch any procedural show, or any show really, and note the name and/or race of the victim/first suspect, or non generically Anglo white character, and guess what the theme of the episode or arc will be! Examples: Asian (tech stuff, triad, prostitution), Black (gang violence, drugs, police brutality, sports, poverty), Italian (mafia), Eastern European (mafia, human trafficking, sex trade), Greek (smuggling), Middle Eastern (terrorism, prejudice, gender), Native Americans (greedy land developers, environment, drugs), Hispanic/South American (cartels, immigration, drugs), stereotypical WASP (white color crimes, rape, cover ups). Play it at home! Alright I know its not ALWAYS like that, even within this show but I watch a lot of TV, and it lines up pretty well.

Edited February 24, 2017 by tennisgurl

[rur]

51 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

My God, is there ANYONE in this universe who isn't deeply unethical and corrupt? I knows the real world has plenty of both, but they seem to be so highly concentrated here! Not that they aren't interesting, but everyone in this show is at best, a hot mess, and at worst, a totally dysfunctional garbage person who shouldn't be in middle school mock trails, let alone courtrooms in a major American city.

I'm kind of glad to see that I'm not the only person thinking about this. I was asking myself this morning if it says something about me, since several of the shows I watch are full of morally bankrupt characters (Suits, for one), or if it's reflection of society and programmers thinking we want to see more of it on television. 

[blackwing]

Well, that.... sucked.  The first half of this season was fantastic.  It was suspenseful and riveting, as each week we learned who did NOT die in the fire.  But the second half after the hiatus sucked huge donkey balls.  As the weeks went by, we were getting clues as to who had motive and why, and then it was like they were all "oh shit!  There's only two episodes left!  Let's just pin it all on some random that nobody has seen or heard before.  That will get all the viewers talking and make them eager to find out why!!!  They'll be talking about this show all spring and summer!"

So we see a Hispanic guy in the car, and my first thought was, I wonder if he's connected to Laurel.  Then I felt bad because I thought to myself, just because he's Hispanic it doesn't mean that he's tied to Laurel, all Hispanic people don't know each other.  Then there was the bit with Laurel protesting that her father is a respected businessman and that Oliver was playing into a stereotype of Mexicans as drug dealers.  So of course, in the end... what happened?  The Hispanic guy in the car turns out to be nothing but a killer thug-for-hire and he did so at the bequest of Laurel's Mexican criminal father.  Yeech.

None of it makes sense.  In the season finales of Seasons 1 and 2 when killers were revealed, I was shocked, because it was people I knew and people I cared about.  In this season finale, I couldn't give two pebbles of crap about this Dominick guy.  So it fell flat.  Spent most of the season thinking that Atwood and Denver were corrupt, and they are, but there was no reason given for the motivation for anything the DA's office or the medical examiner did.

Also, Wes was Charles' Mahoney's son?  Get out.  Wes was 24 years old, give or take.  Was Charles supposed to be a 12 year old rapist?  Or did he rape when he was 15?  Even if he was 15, that would still put Charles at 40 years old.  And he looks like he's about early 30s.  Not believable in the least.

[Simba122504]

6 hours ago, Happytobehere said:

I don't know if I'll stick with the show through Season 4.  It's not just that they killed Wes with what appears to be no real game plan, motivation or plot, it's that I now can no longer even offer a passable level of support for Annalise.  She loved Wes "like a son," but she not only threw him under the bus with the quickness, but she did it to save herself and that worthless piece of crap, Connor, who I personally wouldn't open a stick of gum for.  By episode's end, I officially can't stand him or Oliver and the worst thing that can happen to either of them is to be saddled with the scummy awefullness that is the other.  To make matters worse, Annalise actually allowed Frank, who had already sacrificed himself on the alter of Annalise to get on his knees and grovel before her.  Lady, GTF over yourself.  It's a sad day when Momma Mahoney comes across as the better mother.

Naturally, by next season, Annalise will be back in full force at the university.  In actuality, she should be an unemployable pariah, who is trying desperately to redeem herself.  There should be no students who want to study at her feet, Annalise should be scraping herself up fro,m the legal and academic pits, but I doubt that will happen.

Plot Points That May or May Not Be Revisited

1) So Meggy served no purpose on the show.   

2) The same goes for Lauren Velez's character, who played the least effective spy eve, what was she able to tell Atwood that someone who walked past Annalise on the street one time didn't already know.

3) Are we ever going to know the University Board member who was plotting against Annalise, or was that another red herring.

4) Atwood gets to skate, no doubt the show will think it's is a brilliant idea to brin g her back at a later time, but I can tell you, it will not be, as I'm over her character.  

5) Benito Martinez as the DA also needs to never be seen again.  The show needs to stop propping Annalise by making every prosecutor the equivalent of human garbage.  Let's see how the Annalise show plays when she is facing an opponent who is a good person, honestly trying to do their job.  

6) Simon or whatever his name is needs to never be seen again either.  He never worked as a character, and he will not be acceptable as a Wes substitute. Speaking of Simon, will we ever find out the real motive behind putting up the flyers because the motive he gave Annalise was some straight fragglenacklebull.  Was this connected to the possibly dropped board member plot.

Yeah, can you tell that this finale has left me more than a little bitter.  However, in the face of my bitterness, I still want Asher and Michaela to be the endgame couple, and I want the triumvirate of Annalise/Bonnie/Frank to be standing tall and united when the series ultimately ends.

7. A main character was killed by a random character we barely know or give a damn about. 

8. TPTB forgot what they wrote in S1 & S2. Based on age Wes' mom was already dead 10 years ago. It's impossible for Charles to be the pappy among other errors. 

[St. Claire]

16 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

He must be on one helluva skin regimen. That or he's a vampire.

Come to think of it, I don't think we ever actually saw Charles Mahoney out in daylight. That's how he got released for Papa M's shooting- it happened while he was ensconced in his coffin.

When I was trained, the instructor told us that it's impossible to perform successful CPR without breaking the breastbone; if you don't crack, you aren't getting enough power in the compressions to start the heart beating. So, the whole "I panicked because I heard a crack" was irritating to me. Somebody should have known better. (Unless I just had the most inept CPR instructor in the history of the world. If so, it's a good thing I've never used my training in the decade or so that this dude has been re-certifying me, and it's good that we are using a new vendor for our training.)

[cakes1975]

14 hours ago, dgpolo said:

I like the idea that they killed the wrong boyfriend, especially since this show does play fast and loose with logic. But they are really pushing the illogic with Dominic (?) seeing Laurel walk into the house just before it blew up and not only not do anything about that, but also not reacting with more than 'things got a little messy'? Unless they want Laurel dead too? does she have something on her father? Why did he not come to see her in the hospital?

I'm on board with a two for the price of one killing, aka Wes and Laurel. I think Daddy wanted to use a dead Laurel to prop-up something shady he is doing with the government. Remember he and Laurel had that argument about him keeping tabs on her through he phone and he promised he would no longer do that if she signed the paperwork about some land he did not want his name attached with.

I also think he is in a business that is a combination of Blackwater & Booz Allan, which would make him kinda all-around-scummy. Techie/murdery at the same time.

[Keepitmoving]

Maybe Laurel's dad can just kidnap her so that no one else has to lose their lives due to her annoying presence in their lives.

Again WTF? Get on it Nowalk because right now I see no valid/serious reason there could possibly be for Laurel's dad to kill some young guy, who came from nothing, but just happened to be dating his daughter. I can't get what threat he posed, even if Laurel's father knew that he was a Mahoney by blood, so what? They never wanted him, they never used their power and influence to help him in any way, so I don't even get his rich, powerful biological family being seen as a threat. Getting kind of sloppy Nowalk. This is about where Shonda started fucking up Grey's. Yeah, except it was second season with that fucking Denny character so at least you beat her by a season. Don't follow her lead, she's got great stuff on paper, great initial ideas, hires the most talented actors, but her follow through long term has always been an issue for me, do not repeat those mistakes with this show.

At the very least, please tell me that the hitman is a moron and he killed the wrong mark. At least tell me next season that he was really supposed to kill Frank, at least give me that. I can see a father viewing Frank as some kind of a threat, but even that needs work. I mean OK, you don't like Frank, you know your daughter seems to have a serious hard on for this bad man, well don't you at the very least send someone to threaten his ass to stay away from her first, BEFORE you kill him? I haven't even seen the you better stay away from my daughter or else scene yet, it jumped right to murder. Come on man.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[nutty1]

Jeez, I liked the finale!! I was at the edge of my seat the whole time.

I loved the beginning when Connor was running. I also loved Annalise's recitation at the end.

I felt really really sad for Wes.

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

My God, is there ANYONE in this universe who isn't deeply unethical and corrupt? I knows the real world has plenty of both, but they seem to be so highly concentrated here! Not that they aren't interesting, but everyone in this show is at best, a hot mess, and at worst, a totally dysfunctional garbage person who shouldn't be in middle school mock trails, let alone courtrooms in a major American city.

And that right there is why I have no issues with Connor and especially not when it came to his dislike of Wes and Annalise. Whenever I read comments about how awful Connor is, I always think, "they're all awful in their own way, that's kind of the point". 

Annalise continues to hide behind her convenient defense of "I've never killed anyone" but it's all bullshit and she knows it. She may not have physically killed anyone but blood is all over her hands. Frank is a borderline psychopath, Bonnie is another psychopath considering how cold and clinically she murdered Rebecca and I'm pretty sure it's a decision she's never regretted. I have and continue to think Laurel is a likely sociopath herself. Asher underneath all his goofy white-boyness is still a murderer who also coldly murdered someone. Wes murdered Sam in self defense sure but then gladly shot Annalise once she mentioned Rebecca. Perhaps the least objectionable person left is Michaela but then there was not so subtle threat she made to Oliver when Oliver figured out or at least figured some of what they'd done. 

They're all awful people who have done awful things to save their own skin. So yeah I can agree that Connor may be whiny with all his angsting but I fail to see the big monster when he says hurtful things or he admits truthfully he didn't care that much that Wes is dead because all of these people are pretty awful in their own way. They're the definition of anti-heroes. You're sort of rooting for them to come out on the other side because them going down means no show but you can't truthfully say they all don't very much deserve jail time for all the stuff they've done.

[twoods]

I had finally come to terms with Wes dying, and then they showed how he was murdered and I started bawling all over again. That was absolutely brutal watching him try to get away from Dominic while Annalise told the police that Wes was aggressive and angry. I think hearing that made me even more sad. I'm glad that he realized that it wasn't fair to have the police pin everything (including Sam) on Analisse, but it was too late. Goodbye my beautiful Wes.

Laurel is really out for a vengeance. I buy that they were in love- they were together for months and just because we didn't see it, it doesn't mean that it wasn't true. I really thought she was going to shoot Charles. I am wondering how her dad plays into all of this. 

Asher and Michaela were so cute. Please don't ruin them, writers.

[juliet73]

44 minutes ago, St. Claire said:

 

When I was trained, the instructor told us that it's impossible to perform successful CPR without breaking the breastbone; if you don't crack, you aren't getting enough power in the compressions to start the heart beating. So, the whole "I panicked because I heard a crack" was irritating to me. Somebody should have known better. (Unless I just had the most inept CPR instructor in the history of the world. If so, it's a good thing I've never used my training in the decade or so that this dude has been re-certifying me, and it's good that we are using a new vendor for our training.)

I was first trained in CPR back in the early 80's and I have renewed my certification throughout the years to the present day. Each instructor has always mentioned breaking a bone. And if the victim survives, you are covered under the Good Samaritan Law so you cannot be held responsible for anything you did to save their life (broken bones, etc). I'm assuming they mention the broken bones so people don't do what Connor did. 

Did they pin Sinclair's death on Wes too? 

I'm over Oliver since he deleted the Stanford letter. I hope Connor declines his proposal.

Frank kneeling to Annalise was ridiculous! 

[Dowel Jones]

It's possible Connor has never certified in CPR, and thus would not know that detail.  He may have just been winging it, doing what he has seen done on television, for example. 

Why would the pilot light continue burning when Dominic disconnected the main gas line?

All those people in that fancy club are probably still thinking "I picked a helluva day for lunch at the club. Woohoo!"

And, finally, now that they are done saving their sorry asses, can everyone maybe get back to actually attending a law school class or two?

[Keepitmoving]

5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

There was a scene earlier this season in which Laurel visits her father and asks him IIRC to track down Frank, who had gone missing. It seems plausible to me that it was only after that that Papa Laurel realized a) how sprung Laurel was up to that point on Frank b) Frank's background as a potential killer and all-around shady dude.

Yeah, I remember the scene. But none of it seems all that plausible to me even with Frank's criminal background for big papa to put out a hit on him, Wes or any boyfriend without at least one face to face threat, warning something. Damn, these guys don't even know they're doing anything wrong in the eyes of Laurel's father and it doesn't work for me. They don't even know that they register on her father's radar.

So again, Nowalk has work to do IMO because I need reasoning that I can get behind for big papa  killing  Laurel's boyfriend without even giving him  a warning first to stay away fromher.  Even the mafia gives warnings from time to time before they off you and this had nothing to do with money. Yeah, they'll kill you without warning over money but this was affairs of the heart. Unless it was about money, family money and legacy and making sure Laurel married someone else? Nowalk could start there to help me make sense of this and make it more credible.  Doesn't matter if it was Wes or Frank, it's ridiculous to me, just doesn't make any sense. So we'll see next season if it starts to come together.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[starri]

I have never been in a Code Blue where ribs weren't broken.

This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I don't know that I care.  While I think most of the cast is really strong, I have always thought Jack Falahee was the best one who isn't named Viola Davis.  Boy did that show in Connor and Annalise's big scene in the first hour.

No matter how the plot twisted, the back half of this season has given Viola some great material.  Now just bring that Oscar home on Sunday, girl.

[Neurochick]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

My God, is there ANYONE in this universe who isn't deeply unethical and corrupt? I knows the real world has plenty of both, but they seem to be so highly concentrated here! Not that they aren't interesting, but everyone in this show is at best, a hot mess, and at worst, a totally dysfunctional garbage person who shouldn't be in middle school mock trails, let alone courtrooms in a major American city.

This is a really interesting statement.  I've been reading here, for the past two seasons "OMG, look at the shit Annalise and company do, look at what they get away with."  Maybe the point of this season, and perhaps the next is that there is a price to pay for all the shit they've done.  We don't know what Annalise, Bonnie and Frank were doing BEFORE these students appeared.  

I don't think Laurel's dad is in the drug business.  I think he does own a tech company; and maybe that's how he found out all the shit Annalise and her squad have been doing.  Maybe he killed Wes and struck a deal with Denver because he's like, "holy shit, these people are going to drag MY daughter down.

I mean think about it, your'e a parent, you send your kid off to law school and then find out she's involved with Annalise and all her shit.  Ii would like to see a scene between Laurel's dad and Annalise, and him explaining why he did what he did to Wes...and of course right after that, Laurel blows her dad's head off.  The end.

[wanderingstar]

I have tremendous sympathy for Laurel. Not just because I loved her and Wes together, but because I like Laurel as a character in her own right. I have since season 1. I don't know if Wes was the love of her life (or what that really even means). But I do think some part of her envisioned a future with him. At the very least, she's got to be feeling indescribable hurt at losing someone she cared deeply about and was starting to fall for. And it can't help that the last time she saw him she fought with him. So I get her hurt and lashing out.

That said, I don't believe her pain gives her the right to do and say whatever she wants. At some point, I want someone - Michaela, Annalise, whoever - to state this and have her actually absorb it. Her grief is not a blank check to be a raging asshole.

Additional thoughts on the finale:
Reflecting more on this finale, I don't think there is an explanation for Wes' death that would have satisfied me. And I don't just mean the whodunnit aspect of it. I'm talking about why exactly did they kill Wes? What purpose did it serve other than the producers/writers getting to say "ooh, look how edgy we are, killing a main character?" 

As for Oliver and Connor, I'm just meh on them both now. At the beginning of the season, they seemed to be taking Oliver in a somewhat intriguing direction, but now I'm not sure what they're trying to do with him.

Asher and Michaela are very sweet and earnest. I hope they make it, though if this season has taught me anything it's, that on this show, it's the hope that kills you.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Gillian Rosh

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

Also, Wes was Charles' Mahoney's son?  Get out.  Wes was 24 years old, give or take.  Was Charles supposed to be a 12 year old rapist?  Or did he rape when he was 15?  Even if he was 15, that would still put Charles at 40 years old.  And he looks like he's about early 30s.  Not believable in the least.

Wes was in the second year of law school. So he was most likely 22. 

Charles raping the help at 16 and just looking young for 38, or even raping her at 20 and looking very young for 42, doesn't strike me as out of bounds.

[Aquarius97]

1 minute ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Wes was in the second year of law school. So he was most likely 22. 

Charles raping the help at 16 and just looking young for 38, or even raping her at 20 and looking very young for 42, doesn't strike me as out of bounds.

Wes was 22, as ten years ago he was a 12-year-old boy

[wanderingstar]

I hate DA Denver, but I LOVE Benito Martinez. He's a good actor, and his performance last night was great. It made me wish they'd developed his character a bit more.

Quote

I had finally come to terms with Wes dying, and then they showed how he was murdered and I started bawling all over again. That was absolutely brutal watching him try to get away from Dominic while Annalise told the police that Wes was aggressive and angry. I think hearing that made me even more sad. I'm glad that he realized that it wasn't fair to have the police pin everything (including Sam) on Analisse, but it was too late. Goodbye my beautiful Wes.

Still can't get the image of him trying to crawl away out of my mind. So awful. I'll miss him and his presence on the show.

[Anela]

18 hours ago, Ashand11 said:

I am going to go ahead and assume that maybe laurels dad told this guy to kill laurels boyfriend because he thought it was frank and maybe this guy followed laurel to find out who her boyfriend was and thought it was wes he meant? That's the only thing that makes sense to me.  Why else would he want to kill wes? 

How would he know if laurel didn't even know?

I assumed they mistook him for Frank, as well. 

I will miss Wes. I'm one of the few who liked him. 

Edited February 24, 2017 by Anela

[Coxfires]

39 minutes ago, starri said:

I have never been in a Code Blue where ribs weren't broken.

This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I don't know that I care.  While I think most of the cast is really strong, I have always thought Jack Falahee was the best one who isn't named Viola Davis.  Boy did that show in Connor and Annalise's big scene in the first hour.

No matter how the plot twisted, the back half of this season has given Viola some great material.  Now just bring that Oscar home on Sunday, girl.

I wish the show would disconnect Connor from Oliver next season, because JF has indeed potential and they could do more with his character than stuck him with Oliver. They have hinted at some backstory, so I want more on that for the character. And Michaels's too.

[Aquarius97]

It obvious that we are not done with the murder's night. I think we will have some flashbacks of that night in S4.

I have some inconsistencies that I want to share

I still don't understand why AK called Wes to the house around 4 PM, and she didn't show there until the fire had already happened

Do we have to assume that, after Frank lost Wes, both Frank and Bonnie gave up on his search, like nothing ever happened?

Now we have an exact timeline of the night of the murder of Wes. At 8:22 PM, Wes and Nate were talking in the house (Dominic was hide there too), so Wes must have died within next 10 minutes, as he is attacked right after he calls AK. So there is almost two hours until the house exploded. Also it gives like 4 hours since Wes left the police station, time enough for Wes meeting the ICE

[truthaboutluv]

5 minutes ago, Aquarius97 said:

I still don't understand why AK called Wes to the house around 4 PM,

I was just coming to post that that is another thing we never got an answer to - why Annalise called all the students to her house. 

[blackwing]

I also don't understand why nobody turned on any lights.  I get that for TV purposes it's more dramatic to have bad things happen in a creepy old dark house.  But come on. Nate, Wes, Laurel, Connor.  None of them think to wonder why none of the lights are on, or why they shouldn't turn them on so they could, you know, see.

[Kimmel77]

For a second successive season I feel this show has become undone when attempting to tie up its season-ending murder mystery; season two had unclear elements with the killer (Caleb) and this season it's all very..tangled. I'm sure the writers are going to try and play off their incoherent writing as deliberate suspense, but I won't be buying it. 

As for the finale, I thought part 1 was much better than part 2.

Not sure where they're going with making the younger son Wes's dad. His age is questionable, as is his mother protecting her son who is a rapist. And if he knew he was a father, I don't know how he kept that to himself for so long.

I have read above some of the theories as to why Laurel's dad would want Wes killed and they're crediable. My take on it is that Wes was a pawn and was sacrificed to hurt someone/send a message or was a tactical assassination.

Going into season four I don't think there is much to get excited about to be honest.

[Layne]

3 hours ago, twoods said:

Laurel is really out for a vengeance. I buy that they were in love- they were together for months and just because we didn't see it, it doesn't mean that it wasn't true.

They were together for 3 weeks. 

[Layne]

2 hours ago, juliet73 said:

Did they pin Sinclair's death on Wes too? 

Catherine Hapstall is still rotting in jail for that one. 

[Happytobehere]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

I was just coming to post that that is another thing we never got an answer to - why Annalise called all the students to her house. 

They told us why in the episode she called.  She found out that The Who crew was under investigation and she wanted to given them the heads up.

[truthaboutluv]

18 minutes ago, Kimmel77 said:

season two had unclear elements with the killer (Caleb

YMMV but I bought S2's ending and that may be because I had it figured out two episodes before the finale. I thought it was perfectly believable that Caleb was a sociopath who killed his parents and then saw a way to make Catherine take the fall, so he would be the sole inheritor of their money. There are plenty of real life murder stories of children murdering their parents and family for inheritance money. 

[Layne]

9 minutes ago, Happytobehere said:

They told us why in the episode she called.  She found out that The Who crew was under investigation and she wanted to given them the heads up.

Why did she call Wes to her house at 4pm and Laurel and Connor there at 9pm? And why wasn't she at home either time? 

Also what was the point of having Oliver hack the DA at 9pm on murder night? When he hacked the DA again for Bonnie a few days later, he seemed shocked to see what they were all being investigated for. 

[Deanie87]

On 2/24/2017 at 8:31 AM, Happytobehere said:

Yeah, can you tell that this finale has left me more than a little bitter.  However, in the face of my bitterness, I still want Asher and Michaela to be the endgame couple, and I want the triumvirate of Annalise/Bonnie/Frank to be standing tall and united when the series ultimately ends.

I feel you, at least in some ways!  I quasi-hate this show, but got drawn back into the madness because I just happened to watch the episode with that damn Bonnie/Frank dysfunctional sex scene, which went exactly nowhere. Bonnie makes cow eyes at Frank as he frets about Laurel, ugh.  This show doesn't ever give me what I want.

Speaking of which, when Annalise was confessing everything at AA, I totally expected (read: wanted) for someone to ask what her "son's" name was and for her to say Frank.  Of course, that is completely impossible for many reasons, but I kept waiting for it*.  Just like I keep waiting for Michaela and Conner to hook up, even though I realize that is just another of my pipe dreams.  I did love the Oliver/Connor reunion scene, but for the life of me, I just can't understand what any grown woman could possibly see in Asher, much less Michaela and Bonnie, who have LIVED a life, for god sake.  Also, hello hot sex scene between Conner and Rando Oliver hookup.  That's something to turn back in for, I guess.  

I have never been a big Laurel fan, so I am not looking forward for her coming into focus as the new Wes in Annalise's life, and I have no interest in her baby drama.  Can't we just get back to the dysfunctional Flowers in the Attic dynamic of Annalise, Bonnie and Frank?  With a little hot Conner sex on the side? I'm not that picky as far as his partners go: Oliver, Michaela, maybe the new hot hitman who works for Laurel's dad? Is a threesome with Annalise and Nate out of the question?  I know, I know, I'm bound to be disappointed.

*Keep in mind, I never gave one shit about Frank until he shaved, cut off his hair and started walking around shirtless and forlorn.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Deanie87

[Tiger]

I really hope the show digs into whatever it is that Annalise knows about Connor's childhood, if only because I want to see Falahee & Davis one-on-one more often.  

I also hope he turns down Oliver's proposal, and that nothing happens with Dominic; Connor needs time on his own to work through his apparantly massive issues.

[truthaboutluv]

Wait, did I miss something? Was there some indication that Dominic is gay?

[Cigale]

Quote

ON 2017-02-17 AT 0:59 AM, SISTERSPOON SAID:

Laurel's family are bad and dangerous people, we've been told from the beginning...  how about them for the murder...?

 

Woo-hoo!!!  I was right!  (Sorry, it doesn't happen very often...)

[jvr]

@truthaboutluv No, I don't think you missed anything, or I missed it too. I think people are just guessing/hoping for that pairing. Anything to get him away from Oliver!

Good job @sisterspoon. I'm sure when you posed that people shot it down by mentioning comments by the Laurel actress about the new, non drug kingpin criminal direction they were taking her family. They good people now! lol

Edited February 25, 2017 by jvr

[dgpolo]

2 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Wait, did I miss something? Was there some indication that Dominic is gay?

Was there some indication that he's not?

[jsbt]

Lame.

This whole season has bit of a damp squib - I thought it would come together when Wes got iced, but instead it continued to drift with the exception of Annalise and Bonnie's storylines.

I was hoping they'd wrap most of this up and do a clean sweep for the new season, maybe a timejump and bring in new ideas. Having us learn someone like Laurel killed Wes (she was my prime suspect to the end) and keep it secret would've done so for now, but instead they've got some silly arc with Laurel's family, who (like the Mahoneys) we barely know, still hanging. They pulled a punch and pinned Wes on a rando. The show's never done that; it's always made the killer someone important and then, much to my surprise, has kept the killers on the show and kept writing for them. I always admired that, even if I felt the show was flawed. Not here. Too bad.

It just doesn't feel sustainable for the show's premise to continue with Annalise and the kids careening from threat to threat at a constant clip (I think the date on a recent court document was 2015??) without some break in the action or a time jump. And the way every single DA, ADA or cop they come across is wildly corrupt is just silly. Everything with DA Benito Martinez creeping around in some catacombs imprisoning Connor was cartoonish and goofy. Come on.

Edited February 25, 2017 by jsbt

[nutty1]

3 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

I hate DA Denver, but I LOVE Benito Martinez. He's a good actor, and his performance last night was great. It made me wish they'd developed his character a bit more.

Loved him in American Crime Season 2!