S01.E17: What Now?

[izabella]

I really liked this episode, as I have the entire show.  For all their issues and struggles, this is a family that cares about each other very much, and it's wonderful to see on tv.  I can see everyone's viewpoints, and though I might not agree with all of their choices, I can understand them.

I'm hoping Kevin does the movie.  Sophie may be the love of his life, but I'm not invested in their relationship and think he'd be a fool to give up the big break he turned his life upside-down in the hopes of getting some day, the kind of work he really wanted as a serious actor.  If Sophie had been so important to him, it wouldn't have taken him 12 years to come around.

I am so glad that Kate finally opened up to Toby about her feelings of guilt surrounding her father's death.  I like their dynamic - they made me laugh so hard with the balloons thing - and am rooting for them as a team which means they need to understand each other and turn to each other for support rather than shutting the other out.

So glad Randall made a healthy decision for himself about the job that was nearly killing him!  It's hard to walk away like that, but Randall will find his feet.  Beth and the postcard made me cry; the girls and the fun-ral made me laugh.  Loved it all.

Jack and Rebecca - I get it, but boy, it will be a huge blow if he dies on the way to finding Rebecca.  If Kate feels guilty, I can't imagine how guilty Rebecca feels thinking he died on his way to see her. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by izabella

[Arcadiasw]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

 

Kevin.  Taking up the offer for the movie would seem like deja vu to Sophie, but there would be no reason why Kevin can't continue to live in NY and travel for his movie career.  She doesn't seem like a character who will be around for the long haul anyway, so I bet he goes back to LA.  The critic didn't show up for the play which means it won't be a long running show.  Boom..

It did look like a full house even without the critic and if everyone on the audience enjoyed the play as much as Kevin's family, then good word of mouth can make it successful and get other critics in the seats. If Kevin's stand in is good, the play can make a successful run without him while Kevin work on the movie and get extra money coming on his investment in the play. 

[Bean421]

44 minutes ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Randall's big FU you to his boss and evil Sanjay was epic. 

I don't know that Sanjay is evil. He seemed to be in shock when Randall peaced out and then I thought I saw the hint of a smile. It was almost like he admired what was happening.  I don't think we've seen the last of Sanjay.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Bean421
quotes are hard for me

[ProudMary]

Someone upthread mentioned that the address on William's post card to Beth was in Alpine, NJ.  If that's the case, the show definitely screwed up with the story about the mailman.  Alpine is unique in that residents don't have house numbers and mail is not delivered.  Everyone picks up their mail from the post office.  That's a pretty big oops.

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, talktoomuch said:

Was it? I thought it was pretty corporate standard. Except for the whole "Randall could die if he eats these pears" thing, of course.

At first I shrugged it off - my experience with condolence gifts (in my case flowers) has been that they're not particularly personal. But then when we found out that not only is Randall allergic, but that he a major anaphalactic shock incident in front of the boss, and that Randall was one of the original six, then it seemed pretty thoughtless to me.

11 hours ago, talktoomuch said:

I hope he doesn't stay just to be with Sophie. I know she's The Love of His Life but a Ron Howard movie for The Manny is an opportunity of a lifetime. It's at least worth a discussion between the two of them. Nursing is portable.

The shoot is in LA, that doesn't mean he needs to relocate to LA, but it will, of course, create problems either way. If he turns it down, no matter how much he loves Sophie, he's bound to resent not being able to take his shot. If he takes it, it may mess things up with Sophie. What will he do? <sarcasm>

11 hours ago, elle said:

Regarding the mailman, what I got from that moment (besides a really dusty room) was that you don't always know everything about someone as you think you do even if they live with you or you have known them all of your life.

Like some others who've posted, I had random people (a gardener in one case) come up and tell me what a hell of a guy my Dad was, and what he meant to them. My take is that whoever wrote this is sharing that experience of finding out your family member actually had other people who cared for him/her. It's kind of cool, actually, to get a different perspective. Plus, I thought the actor who played the mailman acted the shit out of that brief scene. Made me tear up to see him tearing up.

10 hours ago, Amethyst said:

On paper, Kevin and Sophie work, but in reality, they don't.  There's no sense of real history between them, nor any real chemistry.  They could have just met and gone on a few dates and their relationship would be no different.  And as charming as Kevin is, their reconciliation so quickly after a 12 year split is a stretch, not to mention infidelity.

I agree. They don't work for me either. She is so bland to me, she's written to have some spark, but I haven't seen it at all.

9 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

Someone upthread mentioned that the address on William's post card to Beth was in Alpine, NJ.  If that's the case, the show definitely screwed up with the story about the mailman.  Alpine is unique in that residents don't have house numbers and mail is not delivered.  Everyone picks up their mail from the post office.  That's a pretty big oops.

It's an oops, indeed. To me it's a minor one, because it never would have occurred to me that there's a place that doesn't have mail delivery. But I understand being bugged about it. Once on The West Wing, they had a line saying that voter turn out in Oregon on election day was low because of the rain. We vote by mail. Bugged the crap out of me.

I'm not much of a crier, but I was definitely teary through much of the episode, given that I've lived through this experience a few times. Beth's bit with the medicine particularly hit home.

It did bug me that the phone conversation with Jesse didn't even mention the service. Sure, he was in Chicago (which I guess was shorthand for he couldn't make it), but you'd think one of them would at least refer to it.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Clanstarling

[CofCinci]

37 minutes ago, Clawdette said:

I believe Beth is wearing the Apple watch, Hermes edition. I have looked longingly at it myself, but can't pull the trigger on its cost. Apple Hermes watch

If you like Beth's Apple Watch band and don't want to spend $500, you can find leather double watch bands on Amazon for fraction of the price. I've worn one for a while now. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s_ss_i_1_19?k=apple+watch+double+leather+band&sprefix=apple+watch+double+

[kili]

Quote

But my take is it's a gesture, who cares if you don't eat pears.  Someone you know does.  It wasn't to save you from starving.  It was just a sympathy gift.

It was a thoughtless gift to somebody who should be important to the company. He has brought in 80% of the clients the company has and has worked closely with the boss for 10 years. Combine that with an employee who has had to go on stress leave partially brought on by working 20 hour days? The boss could have spent 5 seconds thinking about what to send instead of telling the secretary to send whatever. 

It's not just something Randall doesn't want to eat, it is something that could kill him. 

Randall didn't get mad when he got the gift. He defended the gift. But the gift helped him to realize that while he was pouring out his life for the company, the company and the boss didn't care about him one bit. They could barely spare him a thought beyond normal etiquette. He can devote his life to a company that will just treat him as another cog or he can slow down, get a job with more normal  hours and spend more time with his family/friends/people who will care about him. When he dies or is sick, those people will care. The company will just have somebody who doesn't even know him send a basket of something or other. 

Randall is lucky. He has marketable skills and the company needs him more than he needs it. He can find a new job. The company will likely struggle after their rainmaker leaves. 80% of the clients? The company should take better care of such an employee.

[MsChicklet]

Quote

I like that Randall likes his job. I don't mind him quitting but I have no real desire seeing Randall doing some stereotypical artistic venture.

 I see him becoming more of a freelance consultant for a while. He can work on his own schedule, work around things like school events, and he can also see about either getting Williams' poetry published or self-publishing it.

Kevin is financially committed to the play as well as emotionally committed. That plus Sophie may make it hard for him to accept Ron Howard's offer.

10 minutes ago, kili said:

It was a thoughtless gift to somebody who should be important to the company. He has brought in 80% of the clients the company has and has worked closely with the boss for 10 years. Combine that with an employee who has had to go on stress leave partially brought on by working 20 hour days? The boss could have spent 5 seconds thinking about what to send instead of telling the secretary to send whatever. 

THIS. A phone call. A donation in William's memory to cancer research. A card signed by everyone. A Blue Apron gift card. Something that showed that they actually thought about Randall. What the boss did was pure dick.

Edited March 8, 2017 by MsChicklet

[Biggie B]

Leave it to Toby to insert the word 'penis' into the gathering (pun intended). Jesus, can he go even a MOMENT without making a sexual remark?

Kevin should take the part in the movie. This is a huge opportunity that could get his career moving in the way he envisioned when he quit the sitcom. He'd be a fool to reject it just because he's rekindling things with Sophie. Their separation would be finite - the duration of filming - and they could certainly see each other during that time. If anything, this would give them a chance to not rush and jump back into things. They can get to know each other again slowly. If Sophie has half a brain, which I think she might, she'd also see that this movie role is potentially a very good thing and would want to support Kevin in his endeavor. Plus, she has a good career going. If, down the road, she and Kevin really do re-commit to each other and even perhaps remarry, she could in theory find work on the west coast if she had to - and more importantly, if she wanted to. But yes, what would a soap opera be without drama? Heaven forbid anything go rationally.

The mailman thing was schmaltzy but made the point - William touched many people as he made his way through life, and not that Randall needed any more reason to love him, but finding out his bond with the mailman, and his connection to the young athlete in NA were two sweet anecdotes for Randall to cherish. That's all - no deep meaning, just a tiny bit of gilding the lily in a gentle way.

I was glad to see Jesse, if even for just a few moments. He sounded so terribly sad, understandably so. I guess we won't see him again which is too bad - the actor is excellent.

My father died nine days after I began a new (corporate) job. My colleagues, who barely knew me at that point, sent a lovely floral arrangement to the memorial service, with a card that bore a heartfelt greeting. So often it depends on the culture of your job/office as well as the actual person who ends up organizing a response. For all we know, some underling was tasked with sending something to Randall, and may not have even been employed there when the pear incident happened. I doubt it was Randall's boss himself who went online or called to place the order. But again, like the mailman, it made its own point: Randall felt unappreciated, unrecognized, taken advantage of, and deeply hurt by the impersonality (is that a word) of his colleagues. I do hope that he ends up negotiating a very sweet exit package, he clearly deserves it. And yes, this frees him and his family up to move to the west coast if that's what the writers envision. Guess we'll find out next season.

I, too, enjoy the young actress who portrays teen Kate.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, kili said:

It was a thoughtless gift to somebody who should be important to the company. He has brought in 80% of the clients the company has and has worked closely with the boss for 10 years. Combine that with an employee who has had to go on stress leave partially brought on by working 20 hour days? The boss could have spent 5 seconds thinking about what to send instead of telling the secretary to send whatever. 

 

I assume Randall's statement that he brought in 80% of the clients is as much as an exaggeration as the 20 hour days.  Nowhere have we gotten any indication that he worked anywhere near that on a regular basis. We've seen him at soccer games, plays, and chess matches for his daughters. I'm sure he was a very key player at the firm, but I don't think the firm is going to be crippled without him.  That was part of why Randall seemed so petty in that scene to me.

I think Jack's jealousy is very understandable. It's not just the former relationship she kept from him. She's accused him of holding her back from fulfilling her dream, all while he's been mostly supportive.  If he ties that dream to something she pursued while in the relationship with Ben, it comingles the two. Is she mad at him because she wants to be with Ben or because of the singing. Add in the dreamy looks she and Ben exchanged while singing and the fact that she kept the relationship from him, and I think there are the multi-facets leading to his jealousy.  Any one of those by themselves, and he'd be fine. But when you put them all together, you get jealousy.

[atiyah9369]

15 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Pears?  I don't think that's standard from any business I have been involved in.  Or even fruit for that matter.  

I have gotten fruit basket after a surgery from close coworkers. Randall's job didn't even send a sympathy card signed by everyone. Now that we know he was allergic to pears it was inconsiderate.

Edited March 8, 2017 by atiyah9369

[Lady Calypso]

13 minutes ago, deaja said:

I assume Randall's statement that he brought in 80% of the clients is as much as an exaggeration as the 20 hour days.  Nowhere have we gotten any indication that he worked anywhere near that on a regular basis. We've seen him at soccer games, plays, and chess matches for his daughters. I'm sure he was a very key player at the firm, but I don't think the firm is going to be crippled without him.  That was part of why Randall seemed so petty in that scene to me.

I agree that he was probably overexaggerating. Randall is incredibly biased in this sense because he's talking about himself, but he probably is--or was-- a very important part of the company. I have no doubt that he did spend a lot of long hours over the ten years working for the company, whether it was at the office or at home. He probably did help bring in a lot of their initial clients, as well as many over the years. We've seen Randall do everything to be perfect, sacrificing his own health at times to be that way. However, Randall has been shown to be a very active part of his family life; I think Beth has helped him prioritize over the years. I could see Randall working closer to 12 hour days at the office and then doing some work at home. I could see him bringing in 80% of their clients in the first couple of years, when at least Tess was still a young child, and I can see him bringing in a good chunk now, but their company has clearly grown so depending on if new clients were referred by Randall's initial clients, then I could see him giving himself credit in that sense. 

Either way, I agree with Randall's assessment that he deserves much better than a one lined card and giving a gift that he can't even eat. That's a pretty big oversight to a veteran employee. At the very least, leave him a personalized voicemail to let him to know that the company is thinking about him, anything that shows that they appreciate the work that he's done for ten years. 

[AuxArx]

Poor Kevin...the reviewer thought he was 40!

[Lady Calypso]

4 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Was it purely a sympathy gift?  Considering he was out for a week from a breakdown that began at work before the Memphis trip and included a couple days in a hospital, I would think that'd be more the event that would inspire a gift.  Though maybe this was gift #2 in as many weeks.  

I don't think so. Randall's reaction doesn't seem to point in the direction that you're thinking. It does seem like this is the only gift he's gotten. 

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, deaja said:

If Kevin doesn't at least strongly consider taking Ron Howard's offer (to send him a script! It's not even a firm commitment!), he's dumber than I thought he was based on his opening scene in the show.  And that's saying something.  He's 36 years old and up until this play, he's been known as just a pretty face whose big character tried to breastfeed a baby.  He's not going to get younger or better looking.  His play, which he was hoping would help him break in as a serious actor, isn't going to be reviewed by the NYT critic.  It will probably be a very short run.  He isn't going to be able to afford to keep self-financing plays hoping for success.

Right.  He is going to have to kind of choose between that movie and Sophie, if she objects.  Which they've kind of set her up to do.  Toby is itching to get back to LA, so they could all go there, including the newly free Randall.  I really hope not, though, I am bored with shows set there, and New York and Chicago,  This is one of the things I like about TIU, the location (even though it is obviously shot in So. Cal).  I would like to see them all push the reset button the way Randall has.  I think he will have enough money if he sells his partnership stake and/or has made good investments with his forecasting wizardry, to be able to take time as he said, to start his next act.  Kate's breakthrough might have her wanting to reconnect with her roots (bye Toby), and Kevin may choose family, too.  One movie being shot in Calif. doesn't mean he has to move there. 

[BeatrixK]

12 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yesss Randall, peace Sanjay.  I had a feeling he would be done with that place.  Freedom.

Really liked Beth's tribute, and the postcard.  And Jack and William laughing together over Randall.  Finally we got to see Rebecca explain herself, and Randall telling her that he had time enough with William to know that he was loved.  Well done.

Sophie and Kevin, I just can't care about.  Ron Howard was twist-y and fun, but wasn't it established that Kevin can't work in t.v. or film for 2 years? 

I do recall that being established...but yeah...someone like a Ron Howard or a Spielberg, Cameron, etc., is behind a production -- I'm guessing there are ways around it and not a damned thing anyone can do about it.  Clout is everything in Hollywood.

 

I wonder if I should already plan on taking next Wednesday morning off -- I'm totally going to be a wreck....I can already feel it.

Damn you show!  Damn you so hard!

[sasha206]

On 3/7/2017 at 10:35 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Oh! That reminds me of my other favourite moment! Kevin deciding not to tell the film critic about why he didn't make his opening night out of respect to Randall, and then sticking with it, letting the critic think that he did choke. That was a nice, subtle moment. 

I guess for me, this is one of those examples of the show being unrealistic for effect.  Most people certainly would have said, "I had a family emergency" and leave it at that.  There was no need for him to throw Randall under the bus.  And it certainly would have explained why he would make such an unprofessional exit.

Speaking of unprofessional...sorry, but Randall's exit is exactly that.  Good luck trying to get a job when you essentially walked into a room full of your colleagues and did the "take this job and shove it."  I mean, I know this is TV and dramatic effect is what it is, but still.  

And Jack's death.  Yes, I think they are setting it up to make it appear that there was a car accident but I bet there's something more. Maybe he travels to see his wife, sees her with the old love and maybe mistakes what he sees, goes on a drunken stupor and then gets alcoholic poisoning.  Or kills himself.  It's hard for me to believe that the show that drags everything out is going to have him getting into a car accident and dying on the way.

Edited March 10, 2017 by sasha206

[ByaNose]

2 hours ago, Clawdette said:

I believe Beth is wearing the Apple watch, Hermes edition. I have looked longingly at it myself, but can't pull the trigger on its cost. Apple Hermes watch

Yikes! it's rougly $1,299.00. Of course, Beth can afford it. I cannot. LOL!!

[Lady Calypso]

7 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Speaking of unprofessional...sorry, but Randall's exit is exactly that.  Good luck trying to get a job when you essentially walked into a room full of your colleagues and did the "take this job and shove it."  I mean, I know this is TV and dramatic effect is what it is, but still.  

Oh yeah, it felt spontaneous as well, but I imagine Randall has rarely done anything like that before, so I can see why it was sloppy and dramatic. But yes, probably done for TV dramatic effect. 

 

11 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

And Jack's death.  Yes, I think they are setting it up to make it appear that there was a car accident but I bet there's something more. Maybe he travels to see his wife, sees her with the old love and maybe mistakes what he sees, goes on a drunken stupor and then gets alcoholic poisoning.  Or kills himself.  It's hard for me to believe that the show that drags everything out is going to have him getting into a car accident and dying on the way.

I'm very much convinced that Jack dies under completely different circumstances, at a completely different time. It's too easy for them to just have him die now, you know? The ultimate twist would them revealing that he dies months from the current flashback time. 

[DollEyes]

Dug this episode. All that & Ron Howard too! Speaking of whom, Kevin should definitely accept his offer and while I like Sophie, if someone of Howard's talent/reputation is willing to give Kevin a chance, then he should take it and if Sophie has a problem with it, then that says much worse about her than them, as far as I'm concerned. 

Re Jack & Rebecca, while I'm thrilled that Jack didn't cheat on Rebecca,  his drinking is troubling, to say the least. 

The "fun-eral" was, well, fun. Anything that gives the girls more to do is cool with me. As for Jesse, since, according to him, he & William already said their good-byes to each other, my theory is him coming to the fun-eral might have been too much for him and Randall probably sensed that, which was why he didn't invite him. I'm also glad that Randall & Rebecca patched things up. Randall's anger with Rebecca was understandable, but so were Rebecca's remorse and Randall's desire to forgive her. Randall's quitting was both the right thing to do and long overdue. Randall helped make that company what it is, risking/sacrificing family time and his own physical and mental health in the process, but when he needed them most, they not only weren't there for him, their so-called "gift" could have killed him and they knew it. Randall could have given the pears to someone else, but IMO that's not the point. Like the saying goes, "It's the thought that counts" and those pears were thoughtless in more ways than one.  As for Randall's future, between his intelligence, William's book and the rest of the family having his back, I think he's gonna be just fine. 

I love this show. Sure, it's unrealistic sometimes, but it's not a documentary. Sure, it's manipulative sometimes, but all TV shows are. I watch/love it just because it entertains me-period.

Edited March 8, 2017 by DollEyes

[atiyah9369]

10 hours ago, Cardie said:

I have often complained about William's saintliness but you never know how much impact a person can have on those they see every day. My mom died of COPD (emphysema) and during her last years didn't get out a lot. She looked forward to the mail carrier bringing her the mail every day and she volunteered with our synagogue by calling the local hospitals to find out if any of our congregants had been admitted, so she could forward the info to the rabbi. Mom was in intensive care for a month before she died and I had repeated calls from the mail carrier and one of the hospital administrative assistants asking about her condition. Also beautiful flowers/plants from both when she died. (My office sent a fruit basket that I appreciated very much.)

This reminds me of when my mom had her stroke. I had the owner of the cleaners stop me one day to give me a get well card and the owner of an Italian Deli actually cry because he was worried about my mom. I was thinking wow these people really liked my mom(not that she was a bad person). You just don't know how someone might touch another persons life.

[sasha206]

On 3/8/2017 at 10:36 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Oh yeah, it felt spontaneous as well, but I imagine Randall has rarely done anything like that before, so I can see why it was sloppy and dramatic. But yes, probably done for TV dramatic effect. 

 

I'm very much convinced that Jack dies under completely different circumstances, at a completely different time. It's too easy for them to just have him die now, you know? The ultimate twist would them revealing that he dies months from the current flashback time. 

Exactly.  I'm wondering if maybe Kate feels responsible for the death because he goes to see Rebecca and it doesn't end well, he goes on some sort of drinking spiral and eventually dies of alcoholism?  

On 3/8/2017 at 9:07 AM, Biggie B said:

Leave it to Toby to insert the word 'penis' into the gathering (pun intended). Jesus, can he go even a MOMENT without making a sexual remark?

Exactly.  Why is it the writers think his crudeness = adorable fat guy?  

[stonehaven]

Did Denis O'hare's character say he was in Chicago and unable to get to the fun-eral? If that's the case..nice job by the writers...as O'Hare has been on "The Good Fight" and that is set in Chicago....

[Ms Blue Jay]

I don't see Jack as being addicted to drinking, as others have said. (Control-F for the word "addict" if you don't believe me).   I know people who have driven drunk - friends, family.  To me it is the stupidest fucking thing in the world.  Yet, people do it.  They're not addicted to drinking; they just make really stupid decisions when they're drunk or even not that drunk.

Anyways, we do not know whether Jack dies from driving drunk..... yet.  

Denis O'Hare is an American, and him playing British is a distraction to me that I'm not sure makes sense, kind of like Don Cheadle in Ocean's 11.  It feels like it was his own decision.  And if he HAD to be British I wonder why not hire a British actor.

If you tweet at Sterling K. Brown, by the way, he is so nice and will tweet back.  

Edited March 8, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[luna1122]

6 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

Yikes! it's rougly $1,299.00. Of course, Beth can afford it. I cannot. LOL!!

Ugh. Spending that much on a watch seems obscene to me, but I'm poor and petty. I was also attracted to the double wrapped strap on it, but pretty sure I can achieve that without spending a paycheck on it. 

We have gone back n forth on whether Beth is a working attorney at this point. Do we have a definitive answer? 

I took Jessie's phone call to be a 'sorry, I can't come to the memorial' one, not that he wasn't invited to it. And no, denis o'hare is not actually British, and yes, he's a very good actor. And this family sure likes to top load event days. Williams memorial on the same day as Kevin's play opening?  That's an awful lotta family time. 

Yes, all tv shows are somewhat manipulative. Some just do it with a little more subtlety. It makes me mad that this show doesn't trust its audience to not need the anvils and lead fist heavy handedness. 

[Biggie B]

Quote

I took Jessie's phone call to be a 'sorry, I can't come to the memorial' one, not that he wasn't invited to it.

Yes. He told Randall he was at his sister's and that he wasn't doing very well. I think that even if Randall had asked him to come, Jesse would have said no.

I never thought that Beth was working. Wasn't there an episode in which she mentioned finally having the chance to resume working? I have no recollection of her being an attorney. Then again, I don't always pay such close attention to every line of each episode, so that might have been established and I simply missed it. I just assumed she was not working at this time.

[sasha206]

13 hours ago, talktoomuch said:

THIS ^^^^^ all day long and into the night! You mean to tell me they knew all along they were going to show Jack with a drinking problem but they onlyw took 5 minutes of one episode to foreshadow it? Guess they didn't have time with all the Deifying and Mommy Shaming.

Right! This is why I'm really hoping that his death isn't a "on the way to see Rebecca" or while she is on tour because then of course it will be Rebecca and Kate's fault!  The scenario I could see playing out is he goes to see her, goes to the bar she's playing, and sees more googly eyes while they are singing and expects the worst.  His jealousy gets the best of him, he leaves.  Finds secretary, has sex with her.  Feels guilt.  Drinks himself to death. 

What is ridiculous about this show is if drinking is going to ruin his life ultimately, they could have shown him drinking more during those flashback scenes.  Seemingly someone who has 3 kids -- each with their own unique set of problems -- could lead a drinker to drink.  They could've weaved this problem in better and shown him being a functional alcoholic before he goes off into the deep end.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

Yes. He told Randall he was at his sister's and that he wasn't doing very well. I think that even if Randall had asked him to come, Jesse would have said no.

I never thought that Beth was working. Wasn't there an episode in which she mentioned finally having the chance to resume working? I have no recollection of her being an attorney. Then again, I don't always pay such close attention to every line of each episode, so that might have been established and I simply missed it. I just assumed she was not working at this time.

I thought she was working part-time out of her house and that's why she was upset that Kevin was using her office as a bedroom.  And she was thinking she was going to be able to go back to full-time work, and that's one reason she was upset about the pregnancy scare.

[Biggie B]

OK, I must have missed the scene in which Beth talked about working part time out of the house. I often read or do other things while watching this show, so it makes sense that I didn't know that she does indeed do some work.

[sasha206]

16 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

Yes, all tv shows are somewhat manipulative. Some just do it with a little more subtlety. It makes me mad that this show doesn't trust its audience to not need the anvils and lead fist heavy handedness. 

Agreed.  I have never cried during this show once.  And it's largely because I feel like it is way too manipulative, way too unrealistic.  

[meep.meep]

3 hours ago, kili said:

 

On the one hand, it was very Martha Stewart. On the other hand, way to send something for a funeral that would kill the recipient.

I thought it was more Cersei Lannister.  We send cards signed by many people from my work.   And we collect $ for flowers or a donation to an appropriate cause.

I have never cried at the show, but I don't cry at many shows.  Maybe we should form a club.

I was, however, deeply disappointed that the rainbow balloons that Kate was so doggedly buying didn't have actual rainbows on them.  It was just assorted colors.  How hard is that?

[SueB]

Me? Bring on the emotions.  I want a show that touches me.  And if it's manipulative ... meh, go ahead. It felt authentic to me.  
Now, I've noticed that shows I generally like,  I gloss over little things that would bug.  Shows I don't, they stick out.  So, for me, I love the show and am perfectly happy with the beats it hits.

The mailman was perfect IMO because it's a reminder of how little we know fully the extent of people's effects on our lives.  I read a great book snippet once about the impact that a barber's sudden retirement had on a man.  These everyday people (mailmen, barbers, grocery store clerk) can become part of our circle that makes our life more rich. I have no DOUBT that the part of the bit of the mailman was to show how William went from being a 'potential vagrant wandering the streets' to a 'beloved part of the community' in just a few months.  It works on MULTIPLE levels IMO.

[nkotb]

"There stands a man where the Manny once stood." Randall Pearson, March 7, 2017

#Best

Edited March 8, 2017 by nkotb

[Good Queen Jane]

49 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm very much convinced that Jack dies under completely different circumstances, at a completely different time. It's too easy for them to just have him die now, you know? The ultimate twist would them revealing that he dies months from the current flashback time. 

I agree. I think they are going for the ultimate fake out, with Kate telling Toby that she was responsible for Jack's death just before they show Jack in the flashback tell teen-aged Kate he was taking her advice and going to make things right with Rebecca. I base this on the fact that Randall talked about Jack teaching all of the kids how to drive. If the kids had driver's licenses, they would have driven themselves to the party. I don't think they've turned sixteen at this time yet.

[Jillybean]

I think Randall has been on the path to leaving his job for a while now and that the pears were just the tipping point. I think he very much intends to take to heart William's advice to "roll down the windows" (although I hope he doesn't "grow out that Afro") and I believe he will embark on a journey to finding out more about William and exploring relationships with other family members.  All of that being said, it bothers me that he would quit his job without discussing it with Beth. (I was similarly bugged when Michael quit his job without discussing it with Jane on Jane the Virgin). Unacceptable for any married person to do that, no matter how much drama it adds.

I enjoyed the scene with the mailman. It's all part of Randall discovering who William was and how he affected the people he met. I expect that journey to continue in season 2.

It's been mentioned in other episode threads, but according to our timeline, in the scenes where the Big Three are teenagers, Rebecca would be around 45 and Jack would be around 52. Yet nothing is done to age their appearance at all. Jack also needs better 90s styling as I don't recall many 50-something guys with longish slicked-back hair and mustaches.

Ever since Rebecca's tour was mentioned, I have anticipated that Jack would die in a car accident on his way to see her on tour. I wasn't, however, expecting alcohol to be involved since Jack's drinking has only come up one other time. Mr. Jillybean does not believe that this is how Jack is going to die - he is anticipating another twist. If, in fact, this is how Jack dies, I can understand why Kate would think this was her fault. What I don't understand is how she has made no progress toward absolving herself in the 20 or so years since he died. Apparently she has never spoken about this...with anyone? Hard to imagine.

Toby has his good points but his regular moments of crude buffoonery make it tough to like him.

I wonder if Jack did, in fact, teach Randall (and Kate and Kevin) to drive as discussed in his dream about Jack and William. Did none of them have a driver's license yet, so Jack still had to drive them around? Maybe they were still learning at that point?

I'm rooting for Kevin, but it's total bullshit that he came to NY to get Sophie back. It's lovely fodder for a dramatic speech, but it simply isn't true in terms of what we, the viewers, have been shown. 

A FUN-eral sounds much better to me than a funeral.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Jillybean

[topanga]

12 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I love Teen Kate. She is so expressive. And I love Weezer too. 

I don't mind Sophie but I am more interested in her relationship with Kate than with Kevin

I agree. The actress who plays 15-year-old Kate, Hannah Zeile, not only resembles Kate physically, but she also has her speech pattern and mannerisms down to a T. Kate seems much more confident and self-assured at 15 than she did at nine. It seems like Jack's death altered the course of the woman she was becoming. 

And I'd also like to witness present-day interaction between Kate and Sophie. As long as "Bad Blood" doesn't play in the background when they talk. I'm not feeling any chemistry between Kevin and Sophie. Could it be the actress? I also don't feel anything when she talks about her job, her feelings for Kevin, or even how devastated she was when he cheated on her and they divorced 12 years ago. 

 

25 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Agreed.  I have never cried during this show once.  And it's largely because I feel like it is way too manipulative, way too unrealistic.  

I hear ya. But I love the show anyway, despite its melodrama, emotional manipulation, and all of those damn monologues. Maybe its because of the strong cast. 

Now try to show me a Nicholas Sparks movie, and I'd have to hurt you. (Not you, specifically. I'm talking to the room). 

Edited March 8, 2017 by topanga

[talktoomuch]

54 minutes ago, DollEyes said:

Randall helped make that company what it is, risking/sacrificing family time and his own physical and mental health in the process, but when he needed them most, they not only weren't there for him, their so-called "gift" could have killed him and they knew it. Randall could have given the pears to someone else, but IMO that's not the point. Like the saying goes, "It's the thought that counts" and those pears were thoughtless in more ways than one.

I guess it really all depends on your expectations from a corporation. In some companies, such expressions of sympathy are pro forma, and the activity of ordering and delivery is done remotely by an HR and/or administrative person. There would be no personal card and likely no record of preferences for the recipient. 

Randall works in finance, right? So my assumption would be he works for that kind of company. Of course, that wouldn't and doesn't preclude individuals from more personal expressions of their own.

[topanga]

8 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

I wonder if Jack did, in fact, teach Randall (and Kate and Kevin) to drive as discussed in his dream about Jack and William. Did none of them have a driver's license yet, so Jack still had to drive them around? Maybe they were still learning at that point?

I don't think they were 16 yet, so they didn't have a license. Or even if they did, none of them had cars, so they'd have to rely on rides from their parents or friends. Jack and Rebecca probably insisted that they all go to the party together, which makes me wonder who it was that was friends with all 3 of the kids. 

[ByaNose]

I'm thinking the driving while drunk is too obvious for Jack's death. I mean they show him sorta drunk, dropping his keys getting in the car and then in the previews several cans next to him in the car. That's got to be a red herring, right?

[ShadowFacts]

11 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

I think Randall has been on the path to leaving his job for a while now and that the pears were just the tipping point. I think he very much intends to take to heart William's advice to "roll down the windows" (although I hope he doesn't "grow out that Afro") and I believe he will embark on a journey to finding out more about William and exploring relationships with other family members.  All of that being said, it bothers me that he would quit his job without discussing it with Beth. (I was similarly bugged when Michael quit his job without discussing it with Jane on Jane the Virgin). Unacceptable for any married person to do that, no matter how much drama it adds.

My head canon is that he did discuss it with Beth on the way from the theater to the office, in their car or cab ride.  We just didn't see that convo.  She would have been unfazed, I think, and on board with what he wanted to do.  She had just seen him hospitalized, and lose his newfound father.  The last we saw, they were on the sidewalk and he said he wanted to stop at the office, knew they'd all be there, and her next question would have been "why?"  He would have told her.

[izabella]

8 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

I'm thinking the driving while drunk is too obvious for Jack's death. I mean they show him sorta drunk, dropping his keys getting in the car and then in the previews several cans next to him in the car. That's got to be a red herring, right?

I don't see why it would be a red herring.  The promos are just clips that the network chose to use to get us to watch the next episode.  So those things happen in the next episode, which, with that many cans of beer, seems pretty likely that his judgment would be impaired enough to get into an accident. 

It seems like it would be too convoluted to show him drunk driving in the episode, but then have him die by a piano falling on his head or something.

[luna1122]

28 minutes ago, SueB said:

Me? Bring on the emotions.  I want a show that touches me.  And if it's manipulative ... meh, go ahead. It felt authentic to me.  
Now, I've noticed that shows I generally like,  I gloss over little things that would bug.  Shows I don't, they stick out.  So, for me, I love the show and am perfectly happy with the beats it hits.

The mailman was perfect IMO because it's a reminder of how little we know fully the extent of people's effects on our lives.  I read a great book snippet once about the impact that a barber's sudden retirement had on a man.  These everyday people (mailmen, barbers, grocery store clerk) can become part of our circle that makes our life more rich. I have no DOUBT that the part of the bit of the mailman was to show how William went from being a 'potential vagrant wandering the streets' to a 'beloved part of the community' in just a few months.  It works on MULTIPLE levels IMO.

I cry like a baby over a million things, I'm not averse to emotion, like, at all. I just cried watching an old 'what not to wear' repeat. But your point about authenticity and glossing over is good.   I like this show but I do not love it, because for me it doesn't feel authentic a lot of the time, and the emotion doesn't feel earned. It clearly does for many, maybe most. So I'm probably harder on it than a show I completely love. I absolutely get the mailman bit, and the very obvious reasons/intent behind it, it just didn't work for me  

18 minutes ago, topanga said:

I agree. The actress who plays 15-year-old Kate, Hannah Zeile, not only resembles Kate physically, but she also has her speech pattern and mannerisms down to a T. Kate seems much more confident and self-assured at 15 than she did at nine. It seems like Jack's death altered the course of the woman she was becoming. 

And I'd also like to witness present-day interaction between Kate and Sophie. As long as "Bad Blood" doesn't play in the background when they talk. I'm not feeling any chemistry between Kevin and Sophie. Could it be the actress? I also don't feel anything when she talks about her job, her feelings for Kevin, or even how devastated she was when he cheated on her and they divorced 12 years ago. 

 

I hear ya. But I love the show anyway, despite its melodrama, emotional manipulation, and all of those damn monologues. Maybe its because of the strong cast. 

Now try to show me a Nicholas Sparks movie, and I'd have to hurt you. (Not you, specifically. I'm talking to the room). 

The cast is what keeps me coming back, despite its Nicholas sparkishness. And I really like Sophie, but I just seem to like the actress, having seen her in several other roles, including sexy slutty misunderstood red headed ghost-maid. She and Kevin are so pretty together, and their chemistry is sweet, not sizzly, but that seems right, considering their long history. I do want scenes between her and Kate, and a little more backstory on their friendship and its apparent end. 

[SueB]

I think the show loves it's twists and turns.  IF the car accident was at the end of this episode, then the lead-up worked.  Now that we are flipping over to another episode.... not so sure.

Although, I gotta tell you, the Show had me on the edge of my seat regarding Jack and driving. 

41 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

I'm rooting for Kevin, but it's total bullshit that he came to NY to get Sophie back. It's lovely fodder for a dramatic speech, but it simply isn't true in terms of what we, the viewers, have been shown. 

Several have expressed similar views.  Here's my take on Kevin & the BIG MOVE:

1) His 36th birthday brought to a head the growing dissatisfaction with his life, the show being at the 'center' (or so he thought).  And the drinking from the man-boob was the straw that broke the camel's back.  Then Randall helps him to remember his authentic self ("Mom and Dad didn't raise no whores") and Kevin knew he had to get out of there, even if it meant career suicide.
2) When he got to NYC and was wandering around aimlessly and feeling out of place, he went to Randalls and STAYED.  This was HOME.  And even though Beth (and Randall a bit) were like "why are you still here), Kevin moved to the basement to stay. Because this felt right.
3) After the usual drama of women in his life (edgy Olivia versus sincere Sloan), Toby helped him realize that the love of his life was still Sophie.
4) While Kevin still wants to succeed in life, he's in a MUCH better spot than he was in LA.  And his family in the theater meant everything to him.

SO...  "I came to New York to win back my girl." IS an overstatement**, what he's coming to realize is that he came to New York to be Jack Pearson's son.  An authentic person. And Sophie is his partner in that life  So... she's definitely a part of that quest but I think it's an overstatement that she's the ONLY part of that quest. Bottom Line: I think it's less "bullshit" than a realization that he wanted to be the person who understands and loves Sophie. 

**ETA: And Sophie KNOWS that.  She busted him on knowing he was good that night.  This girl really gets him. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by SueB

[Cardie]

11 hours ago, luna1122 said:

It definitely wasn't Ingrid Bergman. Susan Hayward, I think. 

Yes, Hayward and Richard Conte in I'll Cry Tomorow (1955) biopic of singer Lillian Roth, who had to come back from a serious accident.

[roughing it]

I don't get any type of chemistry between Kevin and his ex.  I feel more chemistry between Kevin and Sloane, especially when they shared that kiss at the end of the play.  I thought that was going to be a wake-up call for Kevin (not the Ron Howard wake-up call  LOL). 

I'm guessing that Sophie will step away from the relationship because it's a repeat of 12 years ago, and she won't want to go through that again, leaving Kevin free to pursue LA.

[AuntiePam]

3 minutes ago, Cardie said:

Yes, Hayward and Richard Conte in I'll Cry Tomorow (1955) biopic of singer Lillian Roth, who had to come back from a serious accident.

Thank you!  I actually googled "Hispanic actors" last night because I thought Conte looked like Ricardo Montalban but I knew it wasn't him.  And Conte isn't Hispanic, so of course I couldn't find the name of that actor. 

Another thing that bugged me about this episode was Beth seeing the letter under the pillow, reading it, and then saying to Randall "You'll want to read this."  Well of course he'll want to read it, ya dummy!  It's written by William and was left for them to find.  The "You'll want to read this" just before commercial break was a lame attempt at tension.  "Oh my, what now? You mean he wasn't really my father?"  Or some such dumb revelation.

I guess Beth just rubbed me the wrong way this episode.  Sorry for blowing up.

[Indy]

Pro tip: don't watch this show when you're having a crappy morning and already sad and feeling bad about life...it won't help you feel better....

Overall I was pretty pleased with the episode. I loved Tess and Annie's fun-eral.  It was precious and pretty darned perfect. William loved those girls and they loved him, it was a great tribute to their grandpa. And William's postcard to Beth had my eyes leaking. I'm happy Randall peaced-out of his job, but I do hope this doesn't mean the entire family is L.A. Bound...though I do like all the siblings interacting together so it's probably gonna happen somehow.

Speaking of L.A., Kevin better take that Ron Howard gig. I don't have enough of an attachment to Sophie to care whether she stays or goes. Really, I still want him to be with adorable Sloane so maybe Sophie will say no and Sloane will run off to L.A. with him. 

And just when the show was starting to finally wear me down on the Toby front (I enjoyed him during the balloon scene, ruining everything because there were now only 49 balloons), he has to go and make an inappropriate penis joke after the play. Dude, just dial it back 1 notch and I think we can be friends. 

I feel like Jack's death will be related to his trip to Cleveland, but not necessarily drunk driving. Maybe he'll be walking and hit by a car or get in a fight with the dude from Rebecca's band or something.  With how guilty Kate feels, it has to be something to do with that trip but the car crash seems too obvious. 

[camom]

Quote

I wonder if Jack did, in fact, teach Randall (and Kate and Kevin) to drive as discussed in his dream about Jack and William. Did none of them have a driver's license yet, so Jack still had to drive them around? Maybe they were still learning at that point?

Also, they said that Jack loved to tell the story about Randall learning to drive, which would indicate that he told it several times, presumably over some period of time.  Jack may be involved in a drunken car crash, but I don't necessarily think he will be immediately killed by it.

[WearyTraveler]

15 hours ago, AuxArx said:

Still not sure how the show went on after Kevin blew it off, but okay...

Usually there are under-studies who are ready to go in case something happens to one of the actors.  They show up at the same time the principals show up, they learn all the lines, they rehearse almost the same amount of time, they get into make-up at the same time as everyone else and they are ready to jump into the action at any time.  I'm going to guess that Kevin's understudy was directed to go to the stage the second the lights went on and Kevin wasn't there.  The lead actress would have had to improvise for a few seconds, but that shouldn't be a problem.  

15 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Ron Howard was twist-y and fun, but wasn't it established that Kevin can't work in t.v. or film for 2 years? 

Yeah, that's when the actor that shafted the studio and broke his contract is trying to get another job with a similar level studio executive for another part in another television show, but when Ron Howard wants you, no one is going to stand in the way.  They may negotiate a settlement so that the former studio releases him of his obligations, but that will be as heated as it would get.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

Me? Bring on the emotions.  I want a show that touches me.  And if it's manipulative ... meh, go ahead. It felt authentic to me.  
Now, I've noticed that shows I generally like,  I gloss over little things that would bug.  Shows I don't, they stick out.  So, for me, I love the show and am perfectly happy with the beats it hits.

The mailman was perfect IMO because it's a reminder of how little we know fully the extent of people's effects on our lives.  I read a great book snippet once about the impact that a barber's sudden retirement had on a man.  These everyday people (mailmen, barbers, grocery store clerk) can become part of our circle that makes our life more rich. I have no DOUBT that the part of the bit of the mailman was to show how William went from being a 'potential vagrant wandering the streets' to a 'beloved part of the community' in just a few months.  It works on MULTIPLE levels IMO.

I can't quite get there from the scene.  Seeing a worker in the neighborhood embraced William is far different than the other wealthy homeowners embracing him.  YMMV of course.

1 hour ago, Good Queen Jane said:

I agree. I think they are going for the ultimate fake out, with Kate telling Toby that she was responsible for Jack's death just before they show Jack in the flashback tell teen-aged Kate he was taking her advice and going to make things right with Rebecca. I base this on the fact that Randall talked about Jack teaching all of the kids how to drive. If the kids had driver's licenses, they would have driven themselves to the party. I don't think they've turned sixteen at this time yet.

I did wonder this last night. I think he'll die on the way to/from Cleveland and this will be an inconsistency or we will later find out the kids were in driver's training.  But I did wonder if it was a subtle clue that "This is not what you think."