S01.E04: Chapter Four: The Last Picture Show

[Chaos Theory]

I am probably the only one who liked the Grundy stuff.  I found it interesting how everyone reacted.  But yeah it had to end.  However throwing her in jail would have done nothing  for Archie do I can see why his father would let it go as long as she was gone.  I liked the confrontation scene.  I thought it was good drama.

The show still has an Archie problem and he was the least interesting thing about the episode.  I enjoyed watching Betty and Veronica sleuthing and petty crime.  And Alice on a constant scorched earth mode.  Even Veronica's mom (whose name escapes me) was equal parts villianous and kind to her Smithers.  Everyone needs a Smithers right?

Edited February 17, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[AzureOwl]

The biggest takeaway from this episode for me is that we need to add Hiram to the suspect pool. He may have been in jail when the kid was killed, but we just saw that this would be no impediment for him. And actually, if the Blossoms represent an obstacle for Hiram's plans for the property, then kidnapping their son for leverage is not that far-fetched. Hiram's agents could've then fumbled the kidnapping and killed Jason.

18 hours ago, ketose said:

The Grundy / Gibson stuff is pretty wrong considering how old Archie is supposed to be. Of course, TV producers are kind of wrong for getting a jacked 19-year old to play a 16 year old boy.

7/30/82 was the brithdate.

The same birth date as the actress apparently. And since she is a little over two months older than me, I'm suddenly feeling a lot better about myself.

But back to the point, finding out she's actually 34 makes it a lot more skeevy somehow. I didn't know the actress' age and had been assuming that Miss Grundy was supposed to be on her early 20s. Still wrong and predatory, but somehow more understandable as someone that age could still be pretty immature.  

But she's actually old enough to be his mother! And now I feel old again. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by AzureOwl

[maxineofarc]

2 hours ago, loki567 said:

On one hand, can't disagree that Jughead's dialogue in that scene was terrible. Tarantino as the king of the Indies? Are the writers capable of references past the '90s?

On the other hand, the scene comes off better with more info. Jughead probably didn't care about the drive-in at all, he just wanted a roof over his head. His desperation made sense. 

Oh, I disagree about that! The picture he was looking at of himself and his sister at the drive-in suggested to me that his story about sneaking in, at least, was true, and I've definitely known more than one teenager who thought they knew everything in the world about movies, except they always called them films. If we loosely accept that Jug is 16 then his Tarantino thing also makes perfect sense and is also completely insufferable.

I am still waiting for Kevin to get a personality other than "gay," which is not really a personality. His conversation with his dad made me cringe! Yes, okay, Sheriff Keller is kind and understanding and supportive, but I couldn't help thinking of the Cool Mom from Mean Girls. Maybe this Joaquin thing at least will turn into an actual West Side Story romance. That'd be nice.

Edited February 17, 2017 by maxineofarc

[peachmangosteen]

I swear this show went inside my head and found all the things I never knew I was dreaming of and gave it to me. I am obsessed!

I knew Jughead's dad looked familiar, but I couldn't place him so I went on IMDb after the ep and I, like @I-Kare, made noises only dogs can hear when I found out it was Skeet Ulrich. He looks hotter now than he did then. Into it!

I continue to adore the hell outta Jughead, Betty, Veronica, and Cheryl. And I wasn't bored by Archie this ep.

I'm also finally intrigued about Kevin's story. I like that his dad knows he's gay and is supportive. Also, I'm always up for a West Side Story cliche, so I'm up for Kevin/Joaquin for sure. The second they looked at each other from across the drive-in I was sold lol.

I was really pissed about the nonchalant way everyone reacted to Archie/Grundy, but then they showed her as a predator at the end and I felt a little better. Honestly, if they were going for manipulating predator with that character then the actress did a fantastic job. Also, I'm fairly sure she'll be back and now I'm kinda interested to see where they go with that story.

Whatever, this show is a fantastic hot mess and I love it!

Edited February 17, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[maxineofarc]

23 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I was really pissed about the nonchalant way everyone reacted to Archie/Grundy, but then they showed her as a predator at the end and I felt a little better. Honestly, if they were going for manipulating predator with that character then the actress did a fantastic job. Also, I'm fairly sure she'll be back and now I'm kinda interested to see where they go with that story.

They gave her the Lolita sunglasses! (Which was strange because Lolita was the victim, not the predator, but... never mind, it was a nice little nod.)

Not sure why Betty kept the gun.

[Chaos Theory]

I don't think it's the last we'll see of Fake Grundy because Grundy and Archie were "making music" on the lake on murder day.  They are both valid suspects.   

I actually kinda liked the reaction of Archie's dad and Betty's mom.  It was very human especially Betty's mom.  She didn't particularly care if Grundy ruined Archie but used it as object lession for Betty.  "See Betty what I was saying about Archie."  She had a nuke in her hand and pressed the button and Betty did the same knowing her mother would relent when the families reputations was at stake.  

Honestly if it was my kid I am not sure I wouldn't just let the teacher leave if it saved my kid the awkwardness.  Just get them out and deal with it.  So I don't blame Archie's dad who might have been a bit in shock and more worried about protecting his son on two fronts.  And at the moment Betty's mother was actually the bigger threat. She actively wanted to destroy Archie.  Ms Grundy to his knowledge was a passive threat to be dealt with later.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[maxineofarc]

4 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I don't think it's the last we'll see of Fake Grundy because Grundy and Archie were "making music" on the lake on murder day.  They are both valid suspects.   

But that wasn't murder day. We know that the gunshot they heard was Dilton terrifying his scouts, and Jason wasn't killed until a week or so later.

[AzureOwl]

52 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I don't think it's the last we'll see of Fake Grundy because Grundy and Archie were "making music" on the lake on murder day.  They are both valid suspects.   

46 minutes ago, maxineofarc said:

But that wasn't murder day. We know that the gunshot they heard was Dilton terrifying his scouts, and Jason wasn't killed until a week or so later.

That's the key issue. Basically everyone is a suspect because we can't account for anyone's whereabouts on July 11th. 

BTW, did we ever find out what caliber was the bullet that killed Jason? That would help us figure out if Fake Grundy's revolver is a red herring or not.

[SeanC]

10 hours ago, ruby24 said:

This is my only issue with her. I think she's fine, but she reminds me SO much of Blair Waldorf that it can't help but come across as a low rent version of her. Down to the Audrey Hepburn quip and everything. 

The actresses look somewhat similar and they're both quippy, but Veronica doesn't remind me much of Blair otherwise; Blair was snobby to a fault, among other things.

6 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

"Moral apathetic choice"?

"Moral and apathetic choice".  That was a joke.

Quote

Also, they're just deliberately ripping off Dawson's Creek ripping off The Last Picture Show?

How, exactly?  The only reference to The Last Picture Show in this was the title, as all the episodes are named after old movies.

Edited February 17, 2017 by SeanC

[rho]

41 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Honestly if it was my kid I am not sure I wouldn't just let the teacher leave if it saved my kid the awkwardness.  Just get them out and deal with it.  So I don't blame Archie's dad who might have been a bit in shock and more worried about protecting his son on two fronts.  And at the moment Betty's mother was actually the bigger threat. She actively wanted to destroy Archie.  Ms Grundy to his knowledge was a passive threat to be dealt with later.

That's my thinking too. Grundy's a perv who needs to deal with her issues, whether or not the abuse story is true, but not at the expense of a teenager. Archie's bland and makes bad decisions but he doesn't deserve the inevitable fallout of putting Grundy on trial. Alice was being petty and targeting a teenage boy for doing dumb teenage boy things. She literally has no redeeming qualities and her inability to bend the rules reminds me of Umbridge from Harry Potter. But even after all of this, I think Grundy will be back. They wouldn't throw in that scene of her scoping out the other boys (ew!!!) if they aren't going anywhere with the character. And if they don't, it makes no sense they went with this storyline in the first place, only to wrap it up neatly after four episodes.

I don't get why Cheryl climbed into the truckbed with Veronica. It was weird and when Kevin left, Veronica looked so uncomfortable and started inching away; this girl has literally just insulted her and her mother. And then at some point Cheryl was in the sheriff's truck alone while Joaquin showed Kev his serpent and V stalked her mom, that probably could have been a good moment but was totally wasted. What happened to her other friends from earlier?

And just when I'm about to give up on this show, it gets interesting! I like Jughead and his homelessness issue. Wonder what the deal is with his family. Dad's a crook but Alice Cooper can still school him in bad parenting. Also, Mr. Jones can get it ;)

[MV007]

My problem with the Grundy storyline is they wanted it both ways.  They wanted it to be sexy to have Archie screwing his hot teacher.  But they also wanted to walk the line and show she was manipulating him.  In the end, they failed in both respects for me.  It wasn't hot and sexy because a teacher screwing a high school sophomore is wrong no matter how old the actors look.  Most people have a visceral reaction to that kind of thing.  Then they also didn't go far enough in condemning what Grundy was doing.  The parents should've been repulsed, especially Dylan McKay.  To the above poster's point about this result being better for Archie then a full blown trial.  I agree, but no character verbalized this thought.  We have no idea if thats what Archie's dad was thinking.  I also would've preferred if they made the manipulation more obvious.  Show us that Grundy was lying about the abuse storyline.  Show us that Archie is learning that he was victimized.  As far as I can tell, Archie's little cry fest when getting out of the car had more to do with losing his fuck buddy then losing some kind of innocence.

Still Love Betty though.

Edited February 17, 2017 by MV007

[Sakura12]

I think Cheryl's kind of obsessed with Veronica. 

I don't think Archie realises what happened to him. He thinks he and Miss Grundy had something special and everyone else was taking that away from him. He doesn't know she's a sexual predator. 

As for not getting Fred's pov, who would he voice that too? Betty's mother is crazy and hell bent on hurting a teenage boy for the issues of another teenage boy. The other two in the room was his idiot son and Betty. And Miss Grundy was trying to leave so she wouldn't go to jail. I also agree this is not the last we'll see of her. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Sakura12

[Oscirus]

19 minutes ago, MV007 said:

My problem with the Grundy storyline is they wanted it both ways.  They wanted it to be sexy to have Archie screwing his hot teacher.  But they also wanted to walk the line and show she was manipulating him.  In the end, they failed in both respects for me.  It wasn't hot and sexy because a teacher screwing a high school sophomore is wrong no matter how old the actors look.  Most people have a visceral reaction to that kind of thing.  Then they also didn't go far enough in condemning what Grundy was doing.  The parents should've been repulsed, especially Dylan McKay.  To the above poster's point about this result being better for Archie then a full blown trial.  I agree, but no character verbalized this thought.  We have no idea if thats what Archie's dad was thinking.  I also would've preferred if they made the manipulation more obvious.  Show us that Grundy was lying about the abuse storyline.  Show us that Archie is learning that he was victimized.  As far as I can tell, Archie's little cry fest when getting out of the car had more to do with losing his fuck buddy then losing some kind of innocence.

Still Love Betty though.

Dylan knows hormones so he's not going to condemn his son especially in that situation where Alice was making it worse by needlessly attacking Archie. Dylan did agree that Grundy had to go away, he wasn't completely blind to what she did.

His cry fest at the end was because he felt like shit for "ruining" Grundy's life.  If you recall, Archie was breaking up with Grundy right as the others broke in. 

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I think Cheryl's kind of obsessed with Veronica. 

I don't think Archie realises what happened to him. He thinks he and Miss Grundy had something special and everyone else was taking that away from him. He doesn't know she's a sexual predator. 

As for not getting Fred's pov, who we he voice that too? Betty's mother is crazy and hell bent on hurting a teenage boy for the issues of another teenage boy. The other two in the room was his idiot son and Betty. And Miss Grundy was trying to leave so she wouldn't go to jail. I also agree this is not the last we'll see of her. 

Yeah. The Archie and Miss Grudy stuff is wrong and Archie won't even see it as such. But I don't honestly think any sort of situation like this do the teenagers think they are wrong. They believe they have something special.

Then again a bit of sexist way think of thinking comes into play here. If it were Betty or Veronica or Cheryl who was engaging in a affair with a male teacher, the boys would be so angry even if the girls insisted like Archie had that the relationship was real. It just reminds me of that horrible Adam Sandler movie where he engages in an affair with his teacher and he should be flattered by it. Like it's not wrong if it's a female teacher seducing a male student or something. It's wrong regardless of the gender and whatever the relationship was, it was wrong. It never should have happened. 

I have hope that this show knew what it was doing by pointing out how wrong it was by having Betty VO about how perhaps miss Grudy was dangerous-she was- and having the show show us her eyeing up Archie creepily and not the way a teacher should eye her students. Unlike other teen shows who have done a teacher student affair like Dawson's Creek and the worst pretty little liars, which somehow managed to get every character to support the teacher student relationship. 

[Chaos Theory]

I didn't find Archie and Grundy the least bit "hot" or "sexy".  I think the show did a good job showing it not being that.  Then again I am not a teen so who knows.  I am also not explicitly against these kind of relationships on tv as long as they end this way and not Ezra/Aria Twu luv way.  Again we all have different tv boundaries.  

I actually was rather impressed the way Kevin and his dad talked to each other.  Maybe because I am older and have seen my share of gay kid stories but seeing Kevin and his Sherrif dad talk openly about him being gay was refreshing.  Of course dad isn't going to approve of the guy he is sleeping with but not because of his gender but because he is a criminal.  Refreshing. 

[MV007]

45 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

 

I don't think Archie realises what happened to him. He thinks he and Miss Grundy had something special and everyone else was taking that away from him. He doesn't know she's a sexual predator. 

As for not getting Fred's pov, who would he voice that too? Betty's mother is crazy and hell bent on hurting a teenage boy for the issues of another teenage boy. The other two in the room was his idiot son and Betty. And Miss Grundy was trying to leave so she wouldn't go to jail. I also agree this is not the last we'll see of her. 

I think ideally, Fred would take control of the situation once Alice started going in on Archie.  If your kid was just caught in a sexual relationship with a teacher would you allow the next door neighbor to run the conversation?  He could've show some incredulity and anger.  Then he could've had a conversation with Archie and they mutually agree to let Grundy just disappear.  And another option would be to not write the confrontation and aftermath in this one way.  It didn't have to be resolved in one scene.

As to your thought about Archie not realizing what happened to him.  I completely agree.  My fear with this show is that this storyline will just be thrown away.  It won't really be referenced and won't have any real aftermath.  Now, I do see Grundy coming back but I bet it will only revolve around the murder mystery and not the Archie affair.

Edited February 17, 2017 by MV007

[kirkola]

Coming from someone who, while in high school (early 1990s), got to witness inappropriate relationships between teacher and students (my teacher, but I wasn't one of the students), I can attest that the school would have come to the same conclusion as Betty's Mom and Archie's Dad.

1) The school is essentially liable whether or not the school administration knew it was happening and would likely get sued by angry parents. 

2) The PR nightmare of prosecuting said teacher ruins the school's overall reputation, since no parent wants to send their kid to a school that allows/tolerates inappropriate relationships between teacher and student, again even if the school wasn't aware of it at the time. 

 

In our case, the teacher was told...leave the state and we won't prosecute.  Which she did.  And the entire student body got a very adult lesson that not all crimes get punished.  It ended up being a huge scandal in my home town, but it never really progressed farther than that.  I guess not having the Internet made it easier for her to slink away and descend on another unsuspecting school.

 

From the show's perspective, the school administration would have been even more liable, since a quick googling (sleuthing?) proved that they'd not properly vetted "Ms. Grundy" before hiring her.  I mean, who hires a teacher who has no history at all prior to a year ago.   At least the adults here did confront "Ms. Grundy" and handled the situation by getting her away from Archie.  Sure, it doesn't satisfy my sense of justice for the evil that is "Ms. Grundy", but it is realistic.

[Last Time Lord]

Would Grundy be allowed to just up and leave town like that, with the ongoing murder investigation and everything? 

[marcee]

On the topic of the statutory rape, it's sad to say, but it's a huge double standard. For a male, having sex with a teacher is typically met with an "attaboy" whereas when it's the other way around, everyone cries "rape".

I'm enjoying this show. I'm not a huge fan of Jughead, but the others are fun and interesting.

I appreciate that both 80s/90s teen heartthrobs Luke Perry and Skeet Ulrich are part of the show and actually part of the story.

I wish Veronica's eyebrows weren't so distracting.

I wish the girl who plays Cheryl wasn't such a terrible actress.

We'll see what comes of it all.

[Chaos Theory]

11 minutes ago, Last Time Lord said:

Would Grundy be allowed to just up and leave town like that, with the ongoing murder investigation and everything? 

I'm not law enforcement but can someone not a (known) suspect be kept in a town even with a murder investigation.  That would turn the town into a prison.  No one enters.  No one leaves.  And if the murder stays unsolved.....

[Chicago Redshirt]

The cops right now don't have the evidence that Grundy was around on July 4 because AFAWK, Dilton didn't tell them, and neither did the other people who know (Archie, "Grundy," Jughead and Betty). So they don't really have any reason to suspect her. And even if they knew the car was there, it is sort of irrelevant because the strangely-specific autopsy showed he actually died a week later.

Even if the cops had reason to suspect "Grundy," they don't really have the right to say to anyone "You better stay in town while we investigate." Although you see such threats/demands routinely in TV shows, they have no power to prevent someone from living their lives, including moving.

On another topic, it seemed clear that Papa Archie was trying to get into "Grundy's" undies until he learned that Archie beat him to it. I would have liked that to played out more explicitly.

[loki567]

My guess is if Grundy shows up later in the season, she's probably the murderer. Giving her an abusive relationship background and then having her perv on more teenagers at the end, didn't seem right. Especially tv writing-wise, they would probably have the abusive ex-husband show up as a character.

[rho]

3 hours ago, MV007 said:

I think ideally, Fred would take control of the situation once Alice started going in on Archie.  If your kid was just caught in a sexual relationship with a teacher would you allow the next door neighbor to run the conversation?  He could've show some incredulity and anger.  Then he could've had a conversation with Archie and they mutually agree to let Grundy just disappear.  And another option would be to not write the confrontation and aftermath in this one way.  It didn't have to be resolved in one scene.

As to your thought about Archie not realizing what happened to him.  I completely agree.  My fear with this show is that this storyline will just be thrown away.  It won't really be referenced and won't have any real aftermath.  Now, I do see Grundy coming back but I bet it will only revolve around the murder mystery and not the Archie affair.

I have my fingers crossed that they address this in next week's episode. Maybe give Fred and Archie a bonding moment that exhibits acutal parenting and not just angst and whining. I'll be super annoyed if this was just a one and done because there are a dozen other ways Archie could have overheard that gunshot and kept mum.

So far, this show has had a lot of red herrings and virtually no substance when it comes to the mystery. Coupled with the pervy teacher plotline, I'm wondering if the writers when to the PLL school of bad teen tv mystery writing.

[ketose]

Maybe Archie and his dad can bond over how much they both wanted to bang Grundy.

[NorthstarATL]

9 hours ago, maxineofarc said:

I am still waiting for Kevin to get a personality other than "gay," which is not really a personality. His conversation with his dad made me cringe! Yes, okay, Sheriff Keller is kind and understanding and supportive, but I couldn't help thinking of the Cool Mom from Mean Girls. Maybe this Joaquin thing at least will turn into an actual West Side Story romance. That'd be nice.

I am eagerly awaiting a musical episode entitled "South Side Story" devoted to the Romeo/Julio starcrossed romance! I like JustGay Kev better than the comic book version, where he is student class Prez, War Hero, Senator, and the bestest person in the entire world. It's a tad much. BUT in the comics his father (and mother, and entire town) is supportive of his gayness, so Sheriff Keller is not too far from his comics' version, even giving good advice about cruising.

  

2 hours ago, marcee said:

On the topic of the statutory rape, it's sad to say, but it's a huge double standard. For a male, having sex with a teacher is typically met with an "attaboy" whereas when it's the other way around, everyone cries "rape".

There IS a double standard, though, as far as gender, in that an adult male can overpower a teen girl, whereas teen boys start to outweigh and outsize adult females. The status of being a teacher is usually where the power differential is made up, but, in Archie's case, Grundy wasn't responsible for his grades.

   I was hoping that Grundy was impersonating the real one, though, and that that would be the reveal. Still not sure that the story she told Archie was true. Betty should have used her sleuthing skillz to check it out.

[Mabinogia]

This show is getting better and better. Love Alice Cooper to pieces. She is totally nuts but she embraces it. I love that the show did not shy away from showing that Not Miss Grundy (and I cracked up every time Archie called her that after finding out that is not, in fact, her name) is a predator. That is it not sexy and hot for a teenage boy to be preyed on by his female teacher no matter how hot she's supposed to be. For that alone I will forgive the show it's missteps.

Betty and Veronica remain awesome. Jughead is my favorite male character. I did NOT see him being the homeless child of a biker. Wow! I wonder where he will end up now.

I really like how Betty pointed out that Archie secretly screwing his teacher was isolating him from everyone else. I hope, now that Not Grundy is over, Archie will become more connected with the rest of the characters.

The previews looked amazing. Things gonna get crazy! I'm finally excited about this show. It's really coming together for me.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Mabinogia

[Sakura12]

I think them showing Grundy perving on more teenagers at the end is showing us she was probably lying about her ex. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Jennifer Gibson is another alias or the real Jennifer Gibson was killed by her abusive husband. 

Edited February 18, 2017 by Sakura12

[HunterHunted]

I think the show did a really good job at depicting the Archie/Grundy situation. Archie is young and horny and Grundy is hot and importantly was the first person to treat his musical interests as legitimate. However, I don't think the show ever romanticized it. Literally from the first moment other characters had the potential to find out about it, they've shown Grundy to be manipulative and predatory. Jughead thought the relationship was messed up. Betty thought so too. Veronica seemed noncommittal. Of course we know that Alice and Fred hated it. I think Fred went along with the banishment solution after hearing Archie explain how he was the one at fault for pursuing Grundy. It's so clear that Archie didn't understand the power imbalance and how messed up it was. 

------My random speculation----

If When she comes back as the Grundy Ex Machina during the Jason Blossom investigation/trial where it will be revealed that the real killer is real Geraldine's grandson.

Jennifer Gibson was grandson Grundy's music teacher. They began having a very inappropriately emotional relationship. When grandson Grundy witnessed Jennifer's husband abusing her, he snapped and killed the husband. The police and DA declined to prosecute because it was self and defense of others. At that point, the relationship turned sexual.

Real Geraldine learned of the relationship, told Jennifer to stay away, and threatened to call the police if she saw them together again. Jennifer ran to teenage Grundy and told him how Geraldine was trying to keep them apart. The two would carry on in secret for some time. However when Geraldine's friend, Irma, saw Jennifer and the grandson in what looked like an intense conversation, she mentioned it Geraldine a couple of days later during their bridge game. Geraldine sat her grandson down and ordered him to stay away from Jennifer. Not long after, Geraldine Grundy would die.

The police got suspicious of 2 deaths connected to Jennifer and the grandson. The police investigated and found evidence of the relationship, but little to suggest a conspiracy to kill Jennifer's husband and Geraldine. Jennifer wasn't even in town when Geraldine died. She was giving a small concert 6 hours away. The break in the case would come when the police realized that someone used the wifi at the concert venue research how to induce a heart attack and that the text message "when I'm not with you, my heart breaks" was a code indicating that they were planning on killing Geraldine by heart attack. Typically one of them sent the text and the other would respond back with the same phrase. This time, Jennifer responded "massive amounts k." The police had overlooked it because they thought it was just dumb text speak, when it was really directions from Jennifer to kill Geraldine with a massive dose of potassium, which caused a heart attack.

The police tried to get the teen to implicate Jennifer. He wouldn't. Right before Jennifer's trial went to the jury for deliberations, the teen would confess that he acted alone and that Jennifer had no part in his grandmother's murder. He'd end up in juvenile detention until he was 21. The jury would find Jennifer not guilty by reason of mental disease for the remaining charge of sexual misconduct with a minor. She had presented evidence of her abuse by her husband and how psychologically vulnerable it had left her.

She would be sent to a mental hospital where her roommate would be Polly Cooper, who would tell Jennifer all about Jason Blossom and Riverdale.

Edited February 18, 2017 by HunterHunted

[The Crazed Spruce]

12 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I think the show did a really good job at depicting the Archie/Grundy situation. Archie is young and horny and Grundy is hot and importantly was the first person to treat his musical interests as legitimate. However, I don't think the show ever romanticized it. Literally from the first moment other characters had the potential to find out about it, they've shown Grundy to be manipulative and predatory. Jughead thought the relationship was messed up. Betty thought so too. Veronica seemed noncommittal. Of course we know that Alice and Fred hated it. I think Fred went along with the banishment solution after hearing Archie explain how he was the one at fault for pursuing Grundy. It's so clear that Archie didn't understand the power imbalance and how messed up it was. 

If When she comes back as the Grundy Ex Machina during the Jason Blossom investigation/trial where it will be revealed that the real killer is real Geraldine's grandson.

Jennifer Gibson was grandson Grundy's music teacher. They began having a very inappropriately emotional relationship. When grandson Grundy witnessed Jennifer's husband abusing her, he snapped and killed the husband. The police and DA declined to prosecute because it was self and defense of others. At that point, the relationship turned sexual.

Real Geraldine learned of the relationship, told Jennifer to stay away, and threatened to call the police if she saw them together again. Jennifer ran to teenage Grundy and told him how Geraldine was trying to keep them apart. The two would carry on in secret for some time. However when Geraldine's friend, Irma, saw Jennifer and the grandson in what looked like an intense conversation, she mentioned it Geraldine a couple of days later during their bridge game. Geraldine sat her grandson down and ordered him to stay away from Jennifer. Not long after, Geraldine Grundy would die.

The police got suspicious of 2 deaths connected to Jennifer and the grandson. The police investigated and found evidence of the relationship, but little to suggest a conspiracy to kill Jennifer's husband and Geraldine. Jennifer wasn't even in town when Geraldine died. She was giving a small concert 6 hours away. The break in the case would come when the police realized that someone used the wifi at the concert venue research how to induce a heart attack and that the text message "when I'm not with you, my heart breaks" was a code indicating that they were planning on killing Geraldine by heart attack. Typically one of them sent the text and the other would respond back with the same phrase. This time, Jennifer responded "massive amounts k." The police had overlooked it because they thought it was just dumb text speak, when it was really directions from Jennifer to kill Geraldine with a massive dose of potassium, which caused a heart attack.

The police tried to get the teen to implicate Jennifer. He wouldn't. Right before Jennifer's trial went to the jury for deliberations, the teen would confess that he acted alone and that Jennifer had no part in his grandmother's murder. He'd end up in juvenile detention until he was 21. The jury would find Jennifer not guilty by reason of mental disease for the remaining charge of sexual misconduct with a minor. She had presented evidence of her abuse by her husband and how psychologically vulnerable it had left her.

She would be sent to a mental hospital where her roommate would be Polly Cooper, who would tell Jennifer all about Jason Blossom and Riverdale.

@HunterHunted, you should probably make it clear that this is all speculation. (Y'know, before we get slammed with reports about "spoilers" in the episode threads....)

[zumpie]

My guess is if Grundy shows up later in the season, she's probably the murderer. Giving her an abusive relationship background and then having her perv on more teenagers at the end, didn't seem right. Especially tv writing-wise, they would probably have the abusive ex-husband show up as a character.

Oooohhh...SHE isn't the murderer, her violent ex is, though, cause he thought Jason WAS Archie (or Jason previously got Grundy).

Meanwhile, looovvveeedddd the twist that poor, sentimental Jughead is also homeless and no one knows...

Likewise, I loved Blair, but Veronica is NOT Blair----she's amazingly down to earth and un-snobby, she just liked being rich, but is seemingly fine with NOT being rich, as well.

[Dobian]

Somebody please kill Betty's mom.

So Miss Grundy is 34.  Dylan was surprisingly calm about a 34 year old nailing his 15 year old son.  Looked like she was back to her old self at the end, in full stalker mode in that last shot of her, heart glasses and all.

Betty has some mad burglar skills.  I wonder if she has secrets the show isn't telling yet.

When I was watching the South Side Serpents at the drive-in, I was waiting for them to break out into a performance of Greased Lightning.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Dobian

[Ms Blue Jay]

Point 1:  Skeet Ulrich was on the short-lived Law and Order: LA  (which I mourn) and he was soooooooooooooo fine.  Even prettier than he is here.  I fell in LOVE.

Point 2:  LOL at the poster freaking out over Grundy's age.... aka... my age.

Thank you to the posters who pointed out that we still REFUSE to EVER sympathize with Statutory Rapist Grundy!

I become more and more obsessed with Jughead every episode.  I am creeping out myself by being in love with Cole Sprouse but here I am.  (He's legal folks)

Like others ( @tennisgurl ) I thought it was really cool for Kevin to finally have a home life and a storyline.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

19 hours ago, loki567 said:

Speaking of Veronica, she's basically the reincarnation of Blair Waldorf at this point.

I am a BIG... B I G Blair Waldorf fan.  But in watching Gossip Girl I constantly thought that A) Leighton Meester's mannerisms so closely resembled Alicia Silverstone's in Clueless and that B) Blair's costuming and character so closely resembled Karen Walker's on Will and Grace.  I can't be the only one.  There are so many clips where Blair wears the exact same sunglasses, hairstyle as Megan Mullally and they really do look related.  My point is, so much of pop culture is borrowed from one another....

a Fab Trio: Cher, Karen, Blair

Edited February 18, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Mabinogia]

14 minutes ago, Dobian said:

When I was watching the South Side Serpents at the drive-in, I was waiting for them to break out into a performance of Greased Lightning.

Thank god I'm not the only one! I was waiting for one of them to pull out their switchblade comb and run it through their hair before singing though.

 

14 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

LOL at the poster freaking out over Grundy's age.... aka... my age.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you aren't screwing a 16 year old so you're age is perfectly fine in context to your love life whereas Not Grudy...it's pretty sad when grown ass people fall in love with teen kids. Something went wrong in her development somewhere. Or she likes boys she can control with her vag because they've never seen one before.

[WhosThatGirl]

I would say Veronica is more Serena than Blair. Maybe Veronica before riverdale was more Blair like. She has made many a reference to old Veronica and how she wasn't nice.

[sportsgirl]

As the Grundy situation unfolded, I kept thinking, this is perfect for Betty. Grundy had to quit/leave town/break up with Archie; Archie didn't suffer any real consequences; and Betty got to look like the good guy, standing up to her mom in front of Archie. Is she diabolical enough to have planned it? I thought when we saw her writing in her diary at the end of the ep, we would see that she was planting information for her mother to find. Rather than writing about her own trauma, she wrote about Grundy & Archie -- that, plus the easily-found gun, struck me as suspicious for the sleuthing character of the prior scenes. Maybe I'm giving her too much credit, but I love the idea of puppet-master Betty.

The Jughead stuff was great -- totally surprised, too, that he was (a) homeless (and not just being emo-teen about the Drive In); (b) gang-member born; and (c) Skeet Ulrich's son.

Kevin's kiss was hot. Yes to this plotline, please.

[Chaos Theory]

If this was a better show I would really love to see puppet master Betty.  However more then likely when the dust settles she will end up being nice kind sweet good Betty who occasionally does very bad things.

[starri]

I thought I had read some early stuff about the pilot that stated that Kevin's dad was abusive (the line about having to explain why he was at the river with Moose in the second episode went along with that), but I'm glad they decided to go with the comics version, where he and his dad have a great relationship.  If they can actually draw him closer into the Jason plot, he's clearly going to be the Stiles of the group, no?

Also:  Kevin, you are too good for Moose.  Stick with Joaquin.

Even with all of the Grundy ickiness, this was by far the best episode yet.  The reveal about Jughead (I'd been spoiled about who Skeet Ulrich was playing for a while) being homeless was just a touch heartbreaking.  Because nobody, not even Archie, knows.

[Mabinogia]

Kevin's dad was pretty awesome. I loved how he was disappointed his son was going to the movie with a girl. lol

It would make sense to me if Betty had planned for her mother to out Archie and Not Grundy because when she was writing in her unlocked diary all I could think was "don't you know your mother is a snoop? WTF are you doing keeping a diary that she can so easily look at?" and when Alice did I just said "duh". But if Betty knew her mother had a habit of going through her things...

Why did Betty take the gun anyway? Once it was in her possession couldn't Not Grundy just say Betty was lying and it wasn't hers? Unless it was registered, which is unlikely since she wasn't even who she said she was. Did Betty take it to keep Not Grundy from shooting Archie? Hun, if she wants him dead she can kill him without the gun.

IDK it's all seeming a bit fishy now.

[CletusMusashi]

Who the hell keeps their real, secret ID in their car, instead like under their bedroom carpet or something?

[Tiger]

18 hours ago, MV007 said:

I think ideally, Fred would take control of the situation once Alice started going in on Archie.  If your kid was just caught in a sexual relationship with a teacher would you allow the next door neighbor to run the conversation?  He could've show some incredulity and anger.  Then he could've had a conversation with Archie and they mutually agree to let Grundy just disappear.  And another option would be to not write the confrontation and aftermath in this one way.  It didn't have to be resolved in one scene.

As to your thought about Archie not realizing what happened to him.  I completely agree.  My fear with this show is that this storyline will just be thrown away.  It won't really be referenced and won't have any real aftermath.  Now, I do see Grundy coming back but I bet it will only revolve around the murder mystery and not the Archie affair.

 

18 hours ago, kirkola said:

Coming from someone who, while in high school (early 1990s), got to witness inappropriate relationships between teacher and students (my teacher, but I wasn't one of the students), I can attest that the school would have come to the same conclusion as Betty's Mom and Archie's Dad.

1) The school is essentially liable whether or not the school administration knew it was happening and would likely get sued by angry parents. 

2) The PR nightmare of prosecuting said teacher ruins the school's overall reputation, since no parent wants to send their kid to a school that allows/tolerates inappropriate relationships between teacher and student, again even if the school wasn't aware of it at the time. 

 

In our case, the teacher was told...leave the state and we won't prosecute.  Which she did.  And the entire student body got a very adult lesson that not all crimes get punished.  It ended up being a huge scandal in my home town, but it never really progressed farther than that.  I guess not having the Internet made it easier for her to slink away and descend on another unsuspecting school.

 

From the show's perspective, the school administration would have been even more liable, since a quick googling (sleuthing?) proved that they'd not properly vetted "Ms. Grundy" before hiring her.  I mean, who hires a teacher who has no history at all prior to a year ago.   At least the adults here did confront "Ms. Grundy" and handled the situation by getting her away from Archie.  Sure, it doesn't satisfy my sense of justice for the evil that is "Ms. Grundy", but it is realistic.

 

16 hours ago, marcee said:

On the topic of the statutory rape, it's sad to say, but it's a huge double standard. For a male, having sex with a teacher is typically met with an "attaboy" whereas when it's the other way around, everyone cries "rape".

I'm enjoying this show. I'm not a huge fan of Jughead, but the others are fun and interesting.

I appreciate that both 80s/90s teen heartthrobs Luke Perry and Skeet Ulrich are part of the show and actually part of the story.

I wish Veronica's eyebrows weren't so distracting.

I wish the girl who plays Cheryl wasn't such a terrible actress.

We'll see what comes of it all.

 

13 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I think them showing Grundy perving on more teenagers at the end is showing us she was probably lying about her ex. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Jennifer Gibson is another alias or the real Jennifer Gibson was killed by her abusive husband. 

As someone who fooled around with a student-teacher when I was in high school (he was a 22 yr old college senior and I was a 16 year old high school sophomore), let me say that while I am not endorsing, approving, condoning teacher/student relationships, it is not always black and white.   I was mentally and physically mature for my age and I definitely was not a victim.  Plus, there were a ton guys that definitely would have been more than happy to do something with a few teachers in my high school.

So I can see why the show is trying to have it both ways, showing Jennifer is clearly a predator yet having Archie clearly more upset about loosing his fuck buddy than anything else, and Dylan more upset that his son tapped it before he got the chance.  

There is definitely a double standard in society when the student is male versus female, and frankly having been a teenage boy, I think this particular double standard exists for a very good reason.

Hell, my older brother and a few friends that found out all congratulated me for it.  But I guarantee that if them or me had found out of our female friends or frankly any female at our school had fooled arouns with and teacher and student-teacher, we would have gone straight to the principal instead of congratulating her.

All that said, the show has I think unintentionally undermined whatever narrative theyre goijg for by making Archie so dumb and dull.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Tiger

[Maximum Taco]

18 hours ago, Last Time Lord said:

Would Grundy be allowed to just up and leave town like that, with the ongoing murder investigation and everything? 

They live in America, which is not a police state. The cops can't prevent Grundy/Gibson from going about her business, which includes moving if she wants to.

Even on cop shows like Law & Order, when the cops say "Don't leave town" it's not an order that they can enforce, it's a threat "Don't leave town, cause if you try to we might think you're trying to flee, and innocent people don't flee." If anyone actually did try to leave town they couldn't do anything to stop them, unless they were willing and able to arrest them. 

Edited February 18, 2017 by Maximum Taco

[Mabinogia]

3 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

Even on cop shows like Law & Order, when the cops say "Don't leave town" it's not an order that they can enforce, it's a threat "Don't leave town, cause if you try to we might think you're trying to flee, and innocent people don't flee." If anyone did actually try to leave town they couldn't do anything to stop them, unless they were willing to arrest them. 

It's also reserved for actual suspects. It seems that no one is aware that NotGrundy's has any connection to Jason (that's his name, right, for some reason my mind went blank) other than being a music teacher at his school. I don't think it was knowledge that he was being tutored by her. Maybe Cheryl knew but Betty and Archie sure seemed surprised by it.

So really, had she stayed in town she wouldn't be a suspect at all but now that she's about to suddenly vanish I wonder if the cops will look into her. I would certainly find it suspicious if the teacher of a murdered student up and vanished without a word. Even a half assed police department would think that was a little odd.

I don't really want to see her back, but I wouldn't be surprised if she will be.

[MzLiz]

On 2/17/2017 at 10:12 AM, peachmangosteen said:

I swear this show went inside my head and found all the things I never knew I was dreaming of and gave it to me. I am obsessed!

Whatever, this show is a fantastic hot mess and I love it!

Agree Completely!!

I can't believe how much I'm into this show. It's really adult, edgy, and dark for what I thought was going to be a teeny bopper show. 

Skeet Ulrich!! I was so excited when he showed up on screen. Jughead is apparently homeless only because he chooses to be. Can't wait to see more of the dynamic between him and his dad. 

Loved the last scene between Archie and his Dad! Awww. Luke Perry is doing a damn fine job. 

Yes, I'm getting old when my teenage crushes are playing the parents. ?

Love this show! 

Edited February 18, 2017 by MzLiz
Spelling matters :)

[Bort]

If the cops knew that Grundy had tutored Jason the previous year, had an alternate identity AND a gun stashed in her car, you can bet they'd be VERY interested in her as a suspect.

[ottoDbusdriver]

On 2/16/2017 at 10:29 PM, jay741982 said:

Did anyone catch when they showed her id how old Jennifer was?

 

On 2/16/2017 at 10:32 PM, ketose said:

7/30/82 was the brithdate.

I bet the real ID is a fake too -- it's a little too convenient that the fake music teacher's name is Gibson, like Gibson guitars. She may as well have been Jennifer Fender.

23 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I think Cheryl's kind of obsessed with Veronica. 

Little bit -- especially when she literally inserts herself into the back of the pickup for no apparent reason.

If nearly everyone was at the Drive-In, who tore up the Sheriff's office ?  The Mayor ? Pop ?
I hope Sheriff Keller had a photo of his murder wall.

[NorthstarATL]

11 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

Who the hell keeps their real, secret ID in their car, instead like under their bedroom carpet or something?

I had a friend who had thirty fake i.d.s in her car because her house had routinely been searched by the F.B.I. (They search at the most inconvenient times too!)

[Mabinogia]

6 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Little bit -- especially when she literally inserts herself into the back of the pickup for no apparent reason.

And when Veronica tried to move away from her after Kevin went to get more snacks, Cheryl kept moving closer again. It was a very odd scene.

[Oscirus]

This is definitely the last time we're going to see Grundy. She served her purpose. If anything, that last scene was a way of showing us that Betty was right without bringing her back.

Ironically I think the biggest problem with the Archie-Grundy is something that's not being addressed. It's that we're supposed to dislike Grundy for sexualizing/ taking advantage of a teenage boy, yet the show does it repeatedly.  I guess that last ogling scene was supposed to be disgusting but what does one call all of these  shirtless Archie shots where the camera's basically showing off Archie and his "great abs," and yes, I get that the actor is of age but what's being presented to us is a 15/16 year old boy.  

Edited February 19, 2017 by Oscirus

[ottoDbusdriver]

It was mentioned several times that Ms. Grundy/Jennifer Gibson also tutored Jason Bloom -- was she banging Jason as well ?  Even cherry mentioned it, but did Cherry know about Ms. Grundy's preference for high school boys ?

Edited February 19, 2017 by ottoDbusdriver