S01.E01: Somebody's Dead

[HeyThere83]

Forgot to say...did anyone think Nicole Kidman's character was looking kinda oddly at Jane when they were sitting with Madeline and talking at that cafe?? Not sure if there was a reason for that or I was just seeing things...

[mochamajesty]

2 minutes ago, HeyThere83 said:

Forgot to say...did anyone think Nicole Kidman's character was looking kinda oddly at Jane when they were sitting with Madeline and talking at that cafe?? Not sure if there was a reason for that or I was just seeing things...

 

Not just you, I saw that too.  I thought they were flirting at first - especially considering that Jane called her beautiful. It was really odd.

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, HeyThere83 said:

Forgot to say...did anyone think Nicole Kidman's character was looking kinda oddly at Jane when they were sitting with Madeline and talking at that cafe?? Not sure if there was a reason for that or I was just seeing things...

I noticed that too. It was after Jane said "this life doesn't feel like mine" thing and Jane noticed she was looking at her for a long time and Nicole Kidman said "what is it?" And Jane went "oh, nothing"

[numbnut]

59 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

I believe Ziggy - for now.  But,  what was with that flashback Jane had when she woke up with Ziggy looming over her?  Was that to cast doubt on Ziggy's innocence?

I thought that too, that Ziggy might have undiagnosed behaviorial issues, but now I'm thinking Jane was jumpy because Ziggy's dad was abusive.

4 hours ago, Brookside said:

This reminded me way too much of The Affair, which was boring and irritating by minute 5 of the second episode.  I'll try the next episode of this one, but don't hold high hopes.

 

The Affair always puts me to sleep. I love Maura Tierney but not enough to keep watching. The quick crosscutting to the investigation and testimonies in BLL made the ep more energetic.

[bourbon]

Quote

31 minutes ago, riverheightsnancy said:

She had a visible bruise on her neck. 

 

Did she? I couldn't actually see anything and thought it was Renata overreacting. 

I am so far in. The writing is amazing. In just one or two lines, we completely get every character. In Renata's "Can't believe I actually agreed to be on the Paypal board!" we get *everything* we need to know about this woman in one line. Every character had something like that...a line, a gesture. Terrific writing. Whether or not I can relate to any of these people, I *know* them and *understand* their motivations in the space of an episode. I'm way, way in. This might be my new favorite thing. Can't wait to see how this goes. 

[riverheightsnancy]

I thought that it was visibly bruised, maybe someone can confirm? 

[Athena]

Book Talk is off-topic in the episode threads. Episode threads should focus on the episodes. If you wish to talk about the book, there is a book thread where you can spoil and analyze to your heart's content. Some people have not read the book and should be able to talk about the show without being spoiled. Thank you.

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, Razzberry said:

At first I thought Perry was too good to be true.  Constantly mackin on Nicole (Celeste?), his interactions with the kids, the belching bedtime stories...then his dark side came out.  

Gaaah!  You just HAD to go there with ASkars, didn't you?  I'd be embaarrassed to admit that man still warms the cockles of this old dark heart (yeah, that's definitely the part of this form that gets warm ...).  Thank the stars he's shaping up as an abusive controlling shit, because if he were just a neck biter?  I might just swoon (again).  [/shallow]

Edited February 21, 2017 by walnutqueen
WISH i could edit, but once again, delete & backspace FAIL me. Tablet from hell.

[Lemons]

3 hours ago, RogerDodger said:

I quite liked it.  I'm a sucker for big name movie stars slumming it on TV, so I'm in. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Celeste's husband (forgive me as I haven't learned all of the names yet) is the victim.  He's clearly abusive towards Celeste. I also believe he is probably Ziggy's father.   Jane is clearly running from someone, and is clearly scared enough to keep a gun under her pillow.  I believe the woman Jane kept imagining running in the blue dress is herself.  I believe she either had an affair, one night stand or possible prostitute type relationship with Celeste's husband and Ziggy was the result.  Celeste's husband was probably abusive towards her the same as he is towards Celeste. She either came to Monterey for revenge, or perhaps as escape and coincidentally wound up in the same town.  Celeste's husband warned Celeste to keep the twins away from Ziggy only after hearing his name (which is not that common). I'm sure he doesn't want Jane and Celeste putting two and two together.  If one assumes Ziggy did hurt Renata's daughter, it could be presumed that he gets the tendancies from his father.  (I did love that little Ziggy was wearing a Junior wife beater when he startled Jane in bed.)  My guess is that Celeste, Jane, and Madeline (because she just seems like she would have to be involved) all team up to exact revenge on him once all of the relationships come to light, probably with each providing alibis for the other two so that the murder cannot be pinned on any one of them.    

 

I'm the opposite. I wish they used less " brand names" and more appropriate actors. Nicole Kidmans face is so frozen with chemicals that she is starting to look freakish and I find myself staring at her, not in a good way.  Laura dern is too old for the part. 

Tracy flick is perfect for the part, but the guy playing her husband doesn't seem to be the type her character would marry.  

I didn't read the book and am hoping the little boy is innocent. 

[mochamajesty]

13 minutes ago, bourbon said:

Did she? I couldn't actually see anything and thought it was Renata overreacting. 

I am so far in. The writing is amazing. In just one or two lines, we completely get every character. In Renata's "Can't believe I actually agreed to be on the Paypal board!" we get *everything* we need to know about this woman in one line. Every character had something like that...a line, a gesture. Terrific writing. Whether or not I can relate to any of these people, I *know* them and *understand* their motivations in the space of an episode. I'm way, way in. This might be my new favorite thing. Can't wait to see how this goes. 

 

There was a visible line on the child's neck.  Someone choked her...I truly do not believe that Ziggy did it. I think she picked him out cuz he was the new kid.

Totally agree with the rest of your post.  You can tell everything about Renata's and Madeline's relationship. "She's young - like you used to be." Loved it....

[RealityCreator]

Quote

Just read the NYT review of this and the writer made a great point about the Monterey setting being questionable. I was just in Monterey for Labor Day and granted I didn't see all of it, what I did see definitely was not as fabolous as what's depicted here lol. No shade to Monterey, it's cute, just saying. If anyone on the board lives/has lived there please chime in. 

 

It's true that the really fancy homes in Monterey County are more likely to be in Carmel (pronounced with the accent on the second syllable with a short "e" as in "pet" - local pet peeve), or Pebble Beach than Monterey itself, but most people have heard of Monterey, and it is right next to Carmel.  But there are some fabulous homes in Monterey as well.  Go to the second page:

http://www.sothebyshomes.com/Monterey-Real-Estate

 

(I don't live in Monterey, but I do live pretty close.  It's fun to see our beautiful coastline on TV).

Edited February 21, 2017 by RealityCreator

[Steph01924]

20 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

I guess I don't get why "relating" to characters at all is a thing. Is it imagining myself as the characters? That seems pretty pointless to me personally. Is it just sympathizing with the characters? That's more understandable, but some of the best, most complex, most enjoyable characters in literature are irredeemable bastards with no morals or conscience. So I don't need to like the characters in order to enjoy the story. Maybe the issue of relating to characters (what it is and why so many people seem to need it) will have to remain a mystery to me.

I wasn't disagreeing with you; I don't think you need to relate to these characters to watch their story. But I don't think it's pointless to want to relate to them, or for that sometimes to be part of the reason why you don't feel connected/interested in the story. 

20 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Like murder, domestic violence, social ostracism?

And when I was referring to "Putting aside their first world privileges and problems" I was talking about their fancy cars and houses and feeling inadequate because someone is looked down upon for having a 'silly' twenty hour a week job, etc. The things that people are using to dismiss them as silly rich housewives. 

[humbleopinion]

Say... new car smell...now take out the new... and the s... leaving you with... Carmel

Storms have caused landslides near the scenic Bixby Bridge as seen in the episode

The humble bragging was right on point.

[Razzberry]

3 hours ago, Negritude said:

 

Just read the NYT review of this and the writer made a great point about the Monterey setting being questionable. I was just in Monterey for Labor Day and granted I didn't see all of it, what I did see definitely was not as fabolous as what's depicted here lol. No shade to Monterey, it's cute, just saying. If anyone on the board lives/has lived there please chime in. 

 

Yeah, I've lived in the area for years and it's beautiful but not some upscale enclave like the show depicts.    Carmel, a few miles south, could fit that description though.  

[sportsgirl]

Loved a lot about the first episode -- the acting was outstanding from both the expected (Reese Witherspoon, Laura Dern) and the unexpected (Shailene Woodley absolutely nailed the part of Jane, and, in lesser roles, great work from the female detective and Maddie's daughters and Jane's son).  Tupper and ASkars also seem perfectly cast. I love Adam Scott, but he kind of seemed like nothing as Ed so far. Hopefully that will change. 

In Nicole Kidman's first appearance, I thought, "at least they let her keep her Australian accent." But then later, she seemed to be putting on an American one? I can't tell for sure.  

Didn't love the camera work or the fast cuts. I could have done with a few fewer back-and-forths and jumps through time-- I think I'm OK with the parents at the police station as a way to set the scene and tone and provide outside commentary on the characters we're getting to know intimately, but the cuts to them felt jumpy and not really organic. The cuts to the beach and the gun weren't really working for me at all, but maybe they'll end up going somewhere. 

Heh -- I'm Maddie's age and the mom of a first grader, and I feel no need to relate to these characters in order to enjoy them!

[jeansheridan]

Moved to book talk.  Sorry!

Edited February 21, 2017 by jeansheridan
Moved to book talk. Sorry!

[ptuscadero]

3 hours ago, mochamajesty said:

Perfect response.  I should not have to wade through posts of how TVMadeline compares to BookMadeline, or how this or that did or did not happen in the book.

Discuss it in one thread, please.  :)

That's how we always handled it in TWOP, and I was under the impression that the standard was also carried over to PTV.

[formerlyfreedom]

I really enjoyed this first episode. Interesting way this is looking setup, with the interviews 'in the future' and then the story from the past. I have known these people, in different contexts, in my world. I'm looking forward to how this rolls out, and maybe will check out the book as well (no book talk here, haven't read it!).

I like seeing Shailene Woodley move towards being a grown up. I think she will do well.

[OptimisticCynic]

I don't really believe, unless she was pressured by one of the other mothers, that a younger Bohemian like Bonnie would object to a production of Avenue Q. It was the community theater, not the school performing the production right? 

[Llywela]

Hmmm. I have no horse in this race, the show caught my eye because I knew the lovely Santiago Cabrera had a minor role in it so checked it out for a glimpse of him (he's the guy who pulled back when he saw Madeline, Jane and Celeste sitting together at the coffee shop; he might even get to speak in future episodes and tell us why he avoided them), I knew nothing about the story or characters going in, but enjoyed this first episode and look forward now to the rest. I thought they did a good job with the world-building, demonstrating very clearly what kind of society this is meant to be (whether or not that translates to the real world is another matter; most shows exist in their own little universe), and the actors all did a great job selling their characters.

2 minutes ago, OptimisticCynic said:

I don't really believe, unless she was pressured by one of the other mothers, that a younger Bohemian like Bonnie would object to a production of Avenue Q. It was the community theater, not the school performing the production right? 

She said she didn't know it was Madeline's production. She probably had the petition shoved in front of her nose with an accompanying Outraged Spiel and went along with it, signing because it sounded on the face of it like a reasonable cause to support, rather than searching it out because she actively objected on her own account.

[OptimisticCynic]

3 minutes ago, Llywela said:

She said she didn't know it was Madeline's production. She probably had the petition shoved in front of her nose with an accompanying Outraged Spiel and went along with it, signing because it sounded on the face of it like a reasonable cause to support, rather than searching it out because she actively objected on her own account.

That's what I figured. I just didn't picture her clutching her pearls over the content of the show, too laid back for that. 

[Razzberry]

5 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

Gaaah!  You just HAD to go there with ASkars, didn't you?

I'd go anywhere with him. lol  Perry is a mystery though.  Even when he sleeps he's got a hand on her.  Control issues?

[walnutqueen]

2 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

I'd go anywhere with him. lol  Perry is a mystery though.  Even when he sleeps he's got a hand on her.  Control issues?

I'd probably have gone many places with ASkaars, especially back in my heday, but even I would draw the line at an unauthorized controlling sleep hand.  A few minutes of aftterglow spooning could be tolerated, I suppose, but I only allow pets to fetter my sleep patterns.  :-)

[scrb]

Maddy says she's under the over/under income yet she lives in a posh Oceanside home?

Seems like only Jane would have to send her kid to a public school.

The rest could have a nanny take the kids to private school.

Edited February 21, 2017 by scrb

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

Maddy says she's under the over/under income yet she lives in a posh Oceanside home?

Seems like only Jane would have to send her kid to a public school.

The rest could have a nanny take the kids to private school.

I thought the over/under thing wasn't so much about household wealth as the distinction between working mothers and stay-at-home mothers? Like, if you earn so much you are classed as a working mother and looked down on as such, but if you make under that level you get to call yourself a stay-at-home mother and feel smug about it? But it mostly went over my head, since these characters live in a different world than I do! Except perhaps Jane, hers was the only household that I could relate to :)

[Rickster]

2 hours ago, scrb said:

Maddy says she's under the over/under income yet she lives in a posh Oceanside home?

Seems like only Jane would have to send her kid to a public school.

The rest could have a nanny take the kids to private school.

I have no idea about California, but I live in a pretty wealthy town on the East Coast and a majority of kids go to public schools. The schools here are pretty good and families use their income to pay the mortgages on their multimillion dollar homes rather than school fees. Stay at home moms generally drive their kids to both public and private elementary schools.

[stagmania]

11 hours ago, HeyThere83 said:

Forgot to say...did anyone think Nicole Kidman's character was looking kinda oddly at Jane when they were sitting with Madeline and talking at that cafe?? Not sure if there was a reason for that or I was just seeing things...

11 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I noticed that too. It was after Jane said "this life doesn't feel like mine" thing and Jane noticed she was looking at her for a long time and Nicole Kidman said "what is it?" And Jane went "oh, nothing"

I interpreted that to mean Celeste was recognizing something of herself in Jane. What Jane said about not belonging in her own life seemed to resonate with Celeste, and I think she sensed that Jane may have some similar damage. They're clearly hinting at some violence in Jane's past; without knowing anything, my speculation is that she may have gotten pregnant with Ziggy as the result of sexual assault. It would explain the anxiety and indicators of trauma, and the way she appears to be both afraid of Ziggy and determined to love and trust him fiercely. 

[mojoween]

I thought they were hinting at that too when she said Ziggy's father was never in the picture.

Amusingly enough, when Madeline said "like Ziggy Stardust?" my first thought was Ziggy Marley.  To be fair, I was a year from birth when Ziggy Stardust first appeared.

[bourbon]

Quote

That's what I figured. I just didn't picture her clutching her pearls over the content of the show, too laid back for that. 

I was questioning Bonnie's objection to Avenue Q, too, but I figured when she was confronted with the petition, the outrage was framed more in terms of it being non-PC (the Asian character comes to mind) rather than foul language or sexual content. But perhaps we'll see.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Should You Be True To Big Little Lies?

Do you need these desperate housewives on your DVR?

[Razzberry]

Someone asked about the little girl's neck.  Here's a pic that shows it clearly, but, to me it looks like someone used more than hands to strangle her.   I can't get over the way that teacher handled it.

 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Rich people problems do not interest me. 

Well, I thoroughly enjoyed Downton Abbey, so rich people problems can be pretty entertaining stuff given the right characters and the right story. But so far? I'm not sure any of these characters are leading the kind of lives that even mildly intrigue me let alone entertain me. I'll wait and see, though: eight episodes is not a big investment to make, and the cast is certainly a big draw.

[Giesela]

I have not read the book or watched either the Australian or US version of The Slap.  But The Slap immediately sprang to mind, just with a murder.  Anyone else?

There was a moment where Reese was walking into the school where she was doing the legally blond walk, that with some legal talk.............:)

Someone asked if Skaarsguards character was controlling...geez you thing?  Plus he is always sneaking up behind her and scaring her.  Letting her know she is never alone. 

Since no one, at leaast no adult saw what happened how do they know how it was another kid or even an adult?  Why are they taking her word for it?  Could be a rash or an allergy or playground equipment.  Really stupid and I think if they don't back and up and look at all possibilities and continue down the must be a kid line I might get to po'd to finish watching. 

Wonder who Ziggy's father is.......right now I'm guessing a rape or someone in jail.  That would certainly add flames to the fire.  

I think the Greek Chorus was my favorite part.  Some redeeming snark in a very unpleasant tense show.   Plus I always love the outsider view. 

Edited February 21, 2017 by Giesela

[Arcey]

Quote

Wonder who Ziggy's father is.......right now I'm guessing a rape or someone in jail.  That would certainly add flames to the fire.  

I thought first of sperm donor. Didn't even occur to me about rape, but maybe.  Or maybe she just had sex with someone,  got pregnant,  and never told him.

There was definitely a vibe between Jane and Celeste at the cafe. I totally pictured them hooking up later in the series. Or at least I thought that's where the writer was going.

I thought that was Renata's grandchild, not child. Was very surprised when it turned out to be her daughter.  

Not that enthralled yet after ep 1. Will watch one or two more, but not sure if I'll watch after that. 

Edited February 21, 2017 by Arcey
Typo

[Atlanta]

I was drooling over Reese/Madeline's first outfit and was dying to know about it. If anyone else is interested:

https://wornontv.net/66193/

[MaryWebGirl]

I'm way in! I've been waiting for this show and the first episode didn't disappoint. I think the age spread of the moms is really interesting given the demographic mix of the characters -- it strikes me as pretty realistic from people I know in similar communities. I'm probably going to watch it again to try to catch everything.

On 2/20/2017 at 11:45 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

The detective's obsession with the lighter, I thought, was so silly.  

That drove me bananas too. Is it it in the book? Because it just struck me as a silly little dramatic tic, not something a real person would do.

[mochamajesty]

2 hours ago, Atlanta said:

I was drooling over Reese/Madeline's first outfit and was dying to know about it. If anyone else is interested:

https://wornontv.net/66193/

Her outfit didn't make sense to me. She was way overdressed IMO.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, MaryWebGirl said:

That drove me bananas too. Is it it in the book? Because it just struck me as a silly little dramatic tic, not something a real person would do.

Nope, the detectives do not have personalities in the book

[J-Man]

Merrin Dungey is going to end up being typecast as a detective. She just wrapped up playing one on "Conviction," and now here she is detecting again on "BLL."

[dhilde85]

14 hours ago, mojoween said:

Amusingly enough, when Madeline said "like Ziggy Stardust?" my first thought was Ziggy Marley.  To be fair, I was a year from birth when Ziggy Stardust first appeared.

I kept thinking of Ziggy from the comic strip...

[stanleyk]

On 2/19/2017 at 11:21 PM, CleoCaesar said:

I guess I don't get why "relating" to characters at all is a thing. Is it imagining myself as the characters? That seems pretty pointless to me personally. Is it just sympathizing with the characters? That's more understandable, but some of the best, most complex, most enjoyable characters in literature are irredeemable bastards with no morals or conscience. So I don't need to like the characters in order to enjoy the story. Maybe the issue of relating to characters (what it is and why so many people seem to need it) will have to remain a mystery to me.

I don't understand this either, and without getting too topical, it seems people are often quickest to pull this reaction out when the characters are wealthy or privileged in other ways. To me part of the point of some forms of art (or, if that's too high-falutin', media that wants to be art) is to challenge you to find the humanity in - and empathize with - someone who is not like you. It seems to me a form of tribalism to immediately reject the view of another person's life as "unrelatable," and, thus, unworthy of interest or an effort to find the common humanity. If we all just watch movies or tv shows that show people exactly like we are, we're back in our own personal echo chambers, which only encourages unhelpful division (and demonization of the Other). Granted, this point is perhaps more sympathetically made if you're talking about the characters in Moonlight rather than the characters in Big Little Lies, but the underlying drive to understand other types of people and other types of lives lived, and to find those similarities with yours, is in my mind part of the point of story-telling and story-consuming. 

On 2/20/2017 at 6:58 PM, numbnut said:

I thought that too, that Ziggy might have undiagnosed behaviorial issues, but now I'm thinking Jane was jumpy because Ziggy's dad was abusive.

I didn't read anything into Jane waking up to find Ziggy standing over her, though perhaps given the general tone of the show I should have. I routinely am startled awake to find my small child looming over me, Children of the Corn style. Usually it means he wants a glass of water. But this show does seem slightly darker than my life, so perhaps it was indicative of...something.

On 2/21/2017 at 0:16 AM, OptimisticCynic said:

I don't really believe, unless she was pressured by one of the other mothers, that a younger Bohemian like Bonnie would object to a production of Avenue Q. It was the community theater, not the school performing the production right? 

This also struck me as odd. An easy-going neo-hippie signing on to a pearl-clutching petition to censor a well-known play? Doesn't add up to me.

On 2/21/2017 at 6:40 AM, stagmania said:

I interpreted that to mean Celeste was recognizing something of herself in Jane. What Jane said about not belonging in her own life seemed to resonate with Celeste, and I think she sensed that Jane may have some similar damage. They're clearly hinting at some violence in Jane's past; without knowing anything, my speculation is that she may have gotten pregnant with Ziggy as the result of sexual assault. It would explain the anxiety and indicators of trauma, and the way she appears to be both afraid of Ziggy and determined to love and trust him fiercely. 

This is also how I interpreted that scene: that Celeste was reacting to the rather vulnerable sharing that Jane was doing, and finding aspects of her own experience. Whether it was directly related to violence or a more general sense of unease or disassociation from her life, I'm unsure. I also assumed Ziggy was a product of rape, both because of her statement that she and the father were never together, her running-from-demons style of exercise, and the flashback (though maybe flashforward?) scenes of her in the blue dress, which seemed to show the aftermath of an assault of some kind.

In any event, I hadn't been that excited about this show, mostly because I don't usually enjoy Reese Witherspoon, Nicole Kidman, or Shailene Woodley. But after reading a number of good reviews, I'm glad I gave it a try. I really enjoyed the layer of a mystery on top of the look at these women's lives. The scene with Reese Witherspoon at the piano talking to her oldest daughter legit made me cry. And although his character didn't make much of an impression in the first episode, I'm always up to see more Adam Scott. 

[Eyes High]

15 hours ago, mochamajesty said:

Her outfit didn't make sense to me. She was way overdressed IMO.

In Primates of Park Avenue, a book about a woman's experience dealing with very wealthy mothers at a New York private school her child attended, the author mentions how the mothers dropping their kids off at school would all be ridiculously overdressed and competing to be who could be the most fashionable. In that light, and also given what we've seen of Madeline's personality, Madeline's outfit--Dolce & Gabbana dress, Chloe bag--made sense. I couldn't place it, but Celeste's coat also looked extremely expensive judging from the cut and the fabric, even if her outfit was more casual. 

With that said, the outfit seemed like it belonged on someone a lot younger, like 20 years younger...which may also say something about Madeline, I guess (or Celeste, since the dress was apparently a gift from her). (Madeline's Burberry trench coat in the same episode was boss, though. Can't go wrong with a Burberry trench.)

One thing that confused me is why Jane's child would be attending the same school as Madeline's and Celeste's in the first place. Madeline talked about the school being "private school at a public school price," but surely all these wealthy mothers would have their kids enrolled in private school, right?

I loved the bitchy talking heads. "There should be like a five year limit on how long couples get to be gooey."

Edited February 22, 2017 by Eyes High

[Joimiaroxeu]

This show has a stellar cast. I think it has a lot of potential to live up to.

Quote

Granted, this point is perhaps more sympathetically made if you're talking about the characters in Moonlight rather than the characters in Big Little Lies

Not sure I understand this partcular comparison. Is there something more "other" or unrelatable about the characters in that movie as opposed to this TV show? When I saw Moonlight the audience was much closer to the characters in BLL than people who live in Florida projects. It's doubtful many of them could relate except perhaps on an emotional level.

Quote

Gaaah!  You just HAD to go there with ASkars, didn't you?  I'd be embaarrassed to admit that man still warms the cockles of this old dark heart (yeah, that's definitely the part of this form that gets warm ...).  Thank the stars he's shaping up as an abusive controlling shit, because if he were just a neck biter?  I might just swoon (again).  [/shallow]

I am right there with you.

Quote

But The Slap immediately sprang to mind, just with a murder.  Anyone else?

Me too. I've seen both versions of The Slap and this seems closer to the American version to me. A lot more emphasis on social status and appearances.

[stanleyk]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Not sure I understand this partcular comparison. Is there something more "other" or unrelatable about the characters in that movie as opposed to this TV show? When I saw Moonlight the audience was much closer to the characters in BLL than people who live in Florida projects. It's doubtful many of them could relate except perhaps on an emotional level.

That is exactly my point, though. I don't think (though obviously I could be wrong) that most people watch a movie like Moonlight and say, well, I just can't relate to these characters because I don't live in the Florida projects. They relate to the baseline humanity of the experience and to the emotions of the people, even if it might look very different from their lives. My point was that perhaps people are more open to recognizing those aspects of relatability when the characters are not privileged (or perhaps just more obviously sympathetic) and less open when it comes to settings like BLL, where the characters are very privileged, in multiple ways.

Maybe I just don't understand what people mean when they say they "relate" to a character. It seems to mean that they see themselves in the character, and I guess I'm not sure why seeing oneself in a character is limited to socioeconomic circumstances only. It seems to sometimes boil down to a quick judgment that "these people are rich; I can't relate." And maybe that's a perfectly legitimate way to view it. I'm just saying that part of the challenge of story-telling is whether a viewer can find empathy or interest in characters when they don't reflect the viewer's own life experiences, and that I'm not sold on the idea that a piece of media needs to directly map onto the viewer's life experiences to have interesting or valid thing to say to all viewers.

[Razzberry]

On 2/20/2017 at 4:43 PM, HeyThere83 said:

Forgot to say...did anyone think Nicole Kidman's character was looking kinda oddly at Jane when they were sitting with Madeline and talking at that cafe?? Not sure if there was a reason for that or I was just seeing things...

No, you weren't imagining it.  I wonder who the mystery man is...

 

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Razzberry said:

 

 

Wow, that wig is even more hideous in a still photo than it is in motion.

[mochamajesty]

On 2/21/2017 at 3:42 PM, Giesela said:

I have not read the book or watched either the Australian or US version of The Slap.  But The Slap immediately sprang to mind, just with a murder.  Anyone else?

There was a moment where Reese was walking into the school where she was doing the legally blond walk, that with some legal talk.............:)

Someone asked if Skaarsguards character was controlling...geez you thing?  Plus he is always sneaking up behind her and scaring her.  Letting her know she is never alone. 

Since no one, at leaast no adult saw what happened how do they know how it was another kid or even an adult?  Why are they taking her word for it?  Could be a rash or an allergy or playground equipment.  Really stupid and I think if they don't back and up and look at all possibilities and continue down the must be a kid line I might get to po'd to finish watching. 

Wonder who Ziggy's father is.......right now I'm guessing a rape or someone in jail.  That would certainly add flames to the fire.  

I think the Greek Chorus was my favorite part.  Some redeeming snark in a very unpleasant tense show.   Plus I always love the outsider view. 

 

I watched both versions of The Slap and it came to mind briefly.

The Slap was about whether the boy deserved to be slapped at all (I think the boy was waving a bat around or something and his parents did nothing)- whereas we don't know what happened to the girl here. 

I wondered where the adults were - and why no one else asked that question.  Instead of pointing out the culprit the teacher should have been answering questions about where she was while a child was choked.

[hoodooznoodooz]

So at least three moms were dressed as Holly Golightly at the fundraiser?

Abigail was obnoxious, but I also thought Chloe was quite disrespectful, mouthing "first day of the rest of your life."

[Llywela]

9 hours ago, Razzberry said:

No, you weren't imagining it.  I wonder who the mystery man is...

I'm waiting to find out more about him too, because that is Santiago Cabrera, fresh from The Musketeers, and he is lovely - knowing he had a minor role in this show was the reason I decided to watch in the first place, although after episode one I think I'm intrigued enough to keep watching it for its own sake now.

[Giesela]

On 2/22/2017 at 8:28 AM, stanleyk said:

I don't understand this either, and without getting too topical, it seems people are often quickest to pull this reaction out when the characters are wealthy or privileged in other ways. To me part of the point of some forms of art (or, if that's too high-falutin', media that wants to be art) is to challenge you to find the humanity in - and empathize with - someone who is not like you. It seems to me a form of tribalism to immediately reject the view of another person's life as "unrelatable," and, thus, unworthy of interest or an effort to find the common humanity. If we all just watch movies or tv shows that show people exactly like we are, we're back in our own personal echo chambers, which only encourages unhelpful division (and demonization of the Other). Granted, this point is perhaps more sympathetically made if you're talking about the characters in Moonlight rather than the characters in Big Little Lies, but the underlying drive to understand other types of people and other types of lives lived, and to find those similarities with yours, is in my mind part of the point of story-telling and story-consuming. 

 

 

 

I thought this was insightful and smart and thought about it for a little bit.  I think where relatability comes up with the wealthy is that they have options.  If your kid in the FL projects is getting their ass kicked or worse by drug gangs, chances are the parent has no where to go and no leverage with the school, the cops or anybody else.  Most of us probably feel hampered by lack of money no matter how much we have (within reason).  We feel a lot of our problems and desires could be fulfilled with more money.  Money gives you options to change those problems we are supposed to be relating to.  So why do they have them?   BLL level of money; someone is bullying your kid at public school?  You can send them to private, you can wave your checkbook around and get the cops on it, the school on it.  People don't like you (Renata), you can sell and move to some other lovely coastal community or even quit work and suck up to the stay at home mom set.  

Edited February 23, 2017 by Giesela