S01.E15: Jack Pearson's Son

[Crs97]

11 minutes ago, Emme said:

Maybe Sophie is Miguel's daughter... is that possible?

When she asked about Rebecca and Miguel, she called him "Miguel" and then "Miggy" to annoy Kevin.  If she were his daughter, I would think she would call him Dad and Kevin might be a little more shy about showing his disdain for his stepdad.

[DayGlorious]

13 minutes ago, Emme said:

Maybe Sophie is Miguel's daughter... is that possible?

Why would she call him "Miggie" in last week's episode, then, instead of, um, "Dad"?

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

As I said in the Nostalgia thread, I did squeal a little bit over the flannel they put Teen Kevin in, because in the previous Teen Triplet episode, he had more of a Circa 2000 vibe. Teen Kate looks more or less right for 1996, while Randall sticks to his preppy cardigans because that's what he's comfortable with.

It's likely his school uniform.

[retired watcher]

23 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

Whoever directed this did an amazing job coaxing a performance out of them that was so reminiscent of the adult actors.

It was directed by Ken Olin of Thirtysomething.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

7 hours ago, Katy M said:

 

7 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Is two months really enough to call Ben an ex?

He apparently did ask her to marry him, though.  Or at least brought the subject of marriage up with her.  So, either he is a whirlwind kind of guy, or Rebecca is downplaying the RL.  

I remember talking about marriage with boyfriends even when I was in high school. Most of the time, they were just theoretical discussions the same way we talked about whether we wanted to have kids, where we wanted to live when we were adults, etc. I specifically remember having a huge fight with a boyfriend when I was 15 because I mentioned that I was fine with the institute of marriage but that I had no intention of changing my last name. I also remember talking about that kind of stuff with people when we were just sitting around the dorms (with groups of people where no one was dating each other). There are lots of people who I knew or dated during my teen years who know my views on things like marriage but that doesn't mean that they all proposed to me or that we were in a serious relationship. Heh, if only Kate and Toby had had more conversations like that before they got engaged!

2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

10 hours ago, Katy M said:

They were born in 1980.  I hope they're older than 14 in that flashback.  Remember Jack and sophie are having sex.  So, hopefully, they're at least 15, 16 would be better.  Haven't you ever mentioned a movie more than a year after it came out?

I assumed that they were in their junior or senior year since Randall's school was ranking the kids.  That's usually for the purpose of college applications (although it would make more sense at the very end of junior year or at the end of first term of senior year;  February of senior year is too late for college applications.)  So they'd be 16 1/2 or 17 1/2.

In this week's That Was Us, Mandy Moore mentions something about 16 years (I can't remember the exact context) so I assumed the kids were 15 or 16. 

[SueB]

Some additional thoughts:
- I'm torn on Rebecca.  First, IA with those who say 'you're a parent, get past this'.  OTOH, when emotions are this high, people often overstate.  Like "you NEVER do xxxxx."  (Note, the correct response is to not argue about the "NEVER"... the person you are arguing about is letting you know that there is an issue, the exact number of times you did 'xxxxx' is irrelevant.  Pointing it out will not resolve the conflict). So Rebecca whining (and she did come across as whining) about not having anything on her own is more likely an overstatement rather than how she truly feels.  Jack WAS irrational about the old boyfriend but NOT irrational about cluing in that the guys was into Rebecca and was likely going to try something.  So the REAL issues IMO were:
1) Jack either didn't trust Rebecca to keep the guy at arms length or 
2) Jack was no longer confident in his relationship with Rebecca and thought that she might be tempted.
3) Rebecca feels (IMO) that Jack CONTROLS her.  "You getting in my way."  And a husband who is prone to 'spinning' when another man makes a move on his wife demonstrates both insecurity and lack of trust in his wife. Rebecca clearly wasn't into Ben but Jack couldn't see that.    Rebecca is a CONTROL FREAK herself.  And when Jack takes away her trip (because there is no way she is going now that he made a fuss), it was stifling to her.   
4) Jack flat out said she "lied" to him. She didn't lie to him. She thought she had the Ben situation under control. Witness last week when Ben talked bad about and she shut him up.  But Jack calling it a lie is over-reacting and unfair.  
Which leaves me with:
- The marriage is more fragile than we've seen.  They generally are good together but there are some unresolved issues and poor communication going on.  It's not divorce time (not remotely) but they need to start working on these issues.  If Rebecca goes on tour anyway, Jack will resent her.  If Rebecca stays home, she will resent Jack.  This is not a good situation.  

Which brings me to:
- The lack of concern over Kevin has been hammered home IMO.  He has sex at 16 and his parents leave it at "condom and respect".  Nope.  And so I'm feeling a little less charitable towards EITHER Jack or Rebecca right now.  Sure, Randall was having a melt down.  But if Rebecca didn't want to talk to Kevin alone, she should have said "we'll be back' rather than just leave Kevin with the "Randall needs us so nevermind" feeling.

Finally, I'm a little miffed at Kate.  She should have known Kevin was going to be in his own actor-meltdown mode and been ready for a phone call.  It feels like she's totally dumped Kevin.  I know that is NOT the case, and they just made it seem accidental that the ONLY person who could take care of Randall at that moment was Kevin.  But... I want them to show Kate re-taking an interest in Kevin.  

[Tiger]

I am going to withhold comment on Jack and Rebecca's fight, except that in the instant Rebecca said that Jack was "in her way", I hated her.  I do not, repeat DO NOT want to dimmnish that Rebecca gave up her dreams and did work very hard for her family as a SAHM, but Jack also gave up his dreams and worked very hard for his family.

So Beth has a sister named Lisa, and her mom lives in DC?  Tell me more please.

So Toby tried to kill himself after his divorce?  I don't give a fuck.

Seriously, once again Beth gets minimal screentime while Toby and his stupid jacket eat half the damn show.  And why exactly do Kevin and Randall have a supporting cast of characters around them, yet Kate is propping Toby's story?

On that note, while I hate that Duke did indeed turn out to be an asshole who was intentionally harrasing women, I really hate that once again a story about/centeres around Kate once again is quickly jettisoned so that Kate can be further tethered to and prop Toby.   Do the producers not think Chrissy is capable of driving story?  Because her acting in that diner scene proved she can. 

Randall's nervous breakdown was heartbreaking.  

2 hours ago, marceline said:

In Manhattan? Even at my office in Cleveland, someone would be called to come down to the lobby and retrieve a visitor. 

I don't mean to harp on it but every time someone shows up to Randall's workplace unannounced I get pulled right out of the show. I would've bought Kevin's run to Randall if he'd had a security guard or two following behind him. Or better yet, if we'd been shown a scene of him saying "I'm Randall Pearson's brother and I got a phone call from him that makes me think he may be in danger."

I can handwave 99.9% of the unrealistic stuff that happens on tv, but this bugged the crap out of me, if only because everytime someone visits me at work the procedures I have to go through are exhausting.  I dont work in NYC, but I do work in a big city and the idea that someone can walk into a building without checking in with security, checking in again at the company's main floor, and be escorted the whole time by whoever they are visiting was just "no" for me.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Tiger

[Crs97]

Kevin coming in his office at night bothered me.  Frankly, I cannot figure out the entire office set-up.  His secretary came to his office to tell him he had a call?  Where is she in relation to his office, and why didn't she use the intercom to communicate with him?

[Court]

I wander around my mom's office building often. So does my 9 year old. Granted, we're outside of a big city and not in one. She's worked there since I was 12 and the security knows me.

I'm supposed to sign in but they always wave me off and say don't bother.

I guess my UO is that I have no issue handwaving most things as long as I'm entertained.

ETA: wander sounds weird for an adult but no one questions me when I'm there or need to go to other floors.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Court

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

I just realized I said Jack and sophie were having sex.  that certainly puts a new spin on, well, everything. LOL.

Ha.  Someone else accidentally posted something about "Jack and Kate" (romantically) earlier.  I was having flashbacks to Lost for a second.  

It's too bad they recycle so many names in these things.  I guess at least Randall is somewhat unique.  

[halleygee]

11 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

So last night Miguel mentioned Jurassic Park, which came out in June 1993, which would, I guess, put the date as Valentine's Day 1994. I keep getting mixed up. Were the kids born in 1979 or 1980? 1979 would make them 14 1/2. If the Jack dying when they were 15 theory is right, it is coming soon.

Also, it looked like Jack and Miguel were drinking Starbucks coffee.  Was it that widespread in 1994?  I honestly can't remember, but I was living in a small town in Pennsylvania at the time, and it certainly had no Starbucks.

I noticed the coffe cups too! It was bugging me, but I can't remember when they started making cups like that. Also in those days at the office we drank coffee from the break room, grabbing a coffee to go wasn't as much of a thing like it is now... unless it was from Dunkin Donuts or McDonalds.

ETA... after reading other posts, I see that there were Starbucks in existence during this time. 

Edited February 16, 2017 by halleygee
Added info

[kimrey]

9 hours ago, marceline said:

Also can someone clarify, did we see Kate quit her job in LA in order to move to the East Coast? I feel like she came for Thanksgiving and never left and Toby followed her and stayed.

Thank you! This has been bothering me too. They came for Thanksgiving and never left. I understand staying a bit longer because of Toby's heart attack, but they've been there for maybe 2 months now? What about their jobs, apartments, etc. in LA? I don't think they've had any lines about deciding to leave everything behind and stay out there.

Edited February 16, 2017 by kimrey

[meep.meep]

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I would imagine the security guards already know Kevin is Randall's brother, since he's been there before and they probably let him in. 

And he's the Manny!  You can do anything if you're a celebrity.

[SlackerInc]

I'm having trouble finding time to finish the episode, but before I forget, and without reading anyone else's comments (so I apologize if I'm repeating things a ton of people have already said), I want to comment on two things from the first couple scenes:

(1) I knew Duke's parents owned the camp!

(2) Nitpick: In the scene (set, presumably, in the early '90s) when Miguel and Jack are talking at the office, the decor and props all seem very fitting to the era...except the coffee cups.  Did they really have those Starbucks-style to-go cups, complete with the brown cardboard sleeves, back then?  I am dubious.

[jhlipton]

4 words, Randall: Federal Family Leave Act.  The boss has to grant it, can't make a big deal about, and bring him back at the same place when Randall is ready.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

10 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

(1) I knew Duke's parents owned the camp!

(2) Nitpick: In the scene (set, presumably, in the early '90s) when Miguel and Jack are talking at the office, the decor and props all seem very fitting to the era...except the coffee cups.  Did they really have those Starbucks-style to-go cups, complete with the brown cardboard sleeves, back then?  I am dubious.

(1) I remember you calling it, so congrats.

(2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_cup_sleeve:  The coffee sleeve was invented in 1991 by Jay Sorensen and patented in 1995 (under the trademarked name Java Jacket), and are now commonly utilized by coffee houses and other vendors that sell hot beverages dispensed in disposable paper cups. There are a number of patents that cover various coffee sleeves and their aspects. Other people have claimed to invent the coffee sleeve.

Edited February 16, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[SlackerInc]

1 minute ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

(1) I remember you calling it, so congrats.

(2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_cup_sleeve   :The coffee sleeve was invented in 1991 by Jay Sorensenand patented in 1995 (under the trademarked name Java Jacket), and are now commonly utilized by coffee houses and other vendors that sell hot beverages dispensed in disposable paper cups. There are a number of patents that cover various coffee sleeves and their aspects. Other people have claimed to invent the coffee sleeve.

(1) Thanks!  To be fair, I got the idea from someone who had idly speculated about it when he was first introduced, but I really started thinking they dropped a big hint about it when he talked about his parents' being disappointed in him.

(2) Okay...but how prevalent would they have been?  I just feel like it's a little early, especially for Pittsburgh.  I'm curious to hear what other people think though.

[voiceover]

On 2/14/2017 at 8:31 PM, movingtargetgal said:

[Kate] then needs to get herself a kick ass lawyer to help her file criminal and civil charges against Duke and his parents.   

Maybe on the SVU  crossover.

[DayGlorious]

34 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

(1) Thanks!  To be fair, I got the idea from someone who had idly speculated about it when he was first introduced, but I really started thinking they dropped a big hint about it when he talked about his parents' being disappointed in him.

(2) Okay...but how prevalent would they have been?  I just feel like it's a little early, especially for Pittsburgh.  I'm curious to hear what other people think though.

The DC area had them, though they were still confined to higher-income suburbs or exceptionally busy/trendy parts of the city. According to this article from a generally legit source, the first East Coast store came to DC in 1993, but the chain expanded rapidly there because northwest DC is basically Randall x 350,000.

Edited February 16, 2017 by DayGlorious
more deets

[MsJamieDornan]

14 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Maybe.  Certainly looks like a slimmer face here.

The picture you included is heavily photo shopped. The both have several chins Kohola3.

[Enigma X]

I just finished up this episode. Although I love this show, this is the first episode that brought me past being verklempt to actual tears. My mom died in 2012 and other than just saying that it happened. I cannot talk about it. This includes with siblings who know the details. I get choked up and the words literally won't come out. Kate trying to tell Toby about Jack's death reminded me of that.

Around that same time that I was dealing with my mom stuff, I was going to graduate schoo full time, working full time, and trying to keep an over 100-lb weight loss under control. Several days I had the thought if I walked into rush hour traffic (I am from Chicago and worked downtown), no matter the outcome, no one would expect anything of me after. Randall's situation reminded me of that.

I even related to Toby's suicide/depression story (you all know I hate Toby), Rebecca wanting something for herself story, and Jack needing a drink story.

[kili]

Quote

(2) Nitpick: In the scene (set, presumably, in the early '90s) when Miguel and Jack are talking at the office, the decor and props all seem very fitting to the era...except the coffee cups.

All this talk about coffee cups - I didn't notice the wrongness of the era for coffee sleeves because I was too distracted by the fact that they were completely empty. Milo almost lost control of his cup because it practically floated away with no liquid in it. I get why they don't want to have actual coffee or liquids in the cup, so stick some jello in it to give it some weight and so people can  handle them like they were real. 

I get why Kevin is nervous about the play and the NYT person, but I'm surprised they didn't mention he actually has a lot of experience in front of audiences since his show was filmed in front of a live studio audience.  

Dream Katie Kouric is going to have some more things to throw in his face. 

[DebbieM4]

On 2/15/2017 at 4:40 AM, SunFun said:

Kevin left when the realization hit him that he HAD to go NOW. No time for a plan of action. That's what family is suppose to do. There will be other plays, but only one brother. Good for Kevin. Sloan will likely understand.

 

I get that, but would have far preferred if he had shouted, "I've got to go now!" to someone - anyone - as he ran out.  There was no need for a plan of action.  Just let someone know that you're leaving.  I'm also not so sure there will be other plays.  Disappearing like that could easily be professional suicide.  I'm not saying he shouldn't have gone, but the way he handled it made no sense.  Dumb and unrealistic, IMO.

On 2/15/2017 at 7:06 AM, Crs97 said:

He didn't pressure her.  When he realized she couldn't talk about it, he gently told her he would wait until she was ready.  Then he suggested a long engagement because they need this time to know each other and be comfortable enough to tell each other these kinds of stories.  Most mature thing Toby has done so far on this show.

I agree.  It's the first time he seemed to really care about her.  He spoke in a normal tone of voice, and was pretty tuned in to her feelings.  It was clearly a very rough situation, but what he said was perfect.

On 2/15/2017 at 11:54 AM, SuzyLee said:

I completely agree.  The fact that I've been a single mom to my now-16-year-old daughter practically since day one probably more than influences my feelings on this topic.  I have no backup, so the notion of leaving my three teenage children at home for several weeks while I "tour" is completely laughable to me.  My idea of "time to myself" and "doing something for me" is spending 45 minutes at Starbucks reading my book and drinking something terribly sugary while my daughter is in ballet class down the street once a week.  Yes, Rebecca has a reliable back-up in Jack, but still.  Rebecca must not have realized all of the shit that can go down over the course of a few weeks in a teenager's life.  If the "tour" (and I stand by my use of quotes there) is that important, it can wait a couple of years.  I find Rebecca to be quite selfish most of the time.  I realize that the glare coming from Jack's halo probably casts a shadow on her, but . . . yeah. 

I agree, and I've felt that way about her from the beginning.  She's easily my least favorite character.  (I was a single Mom too, although I'd probably feel the same way even if that wasn't the case.)

On 2/15/2017 at 6:40 PM, methodwriter85 said:

 

I did kind of wonder about the bacon cheeseburgers, because it feels like the "put bacon in everything" is more of a recent craze, but then again, I'm sure they had to have been around, if not as popular. 

I was in college in the 70's, and bacon cheeseburgers were very popular then and for years after, so that seemed era-appropriate to me.  I would never think of them as a recent craze.  More of a throwback since people generally eat healthier now.

Edited February 17, 2017 by DebbieM4
corrected awkward wording

[SlackerInc]

Oh yeah.  That was indeed way, way before the "put bacon in everything" craze, but back then bacon was pretty much eaten three ways: at breakfast, sitting on a plate next to some eggs and toast; in a BLT; or on a bacon cheeseburger.

Really good episode.  Sometimes when the quality of the show has dipped a bit, I've kind of taken stock and realized this is the only network drama I watch (a title previously held by The Good Wife), and wondered if it was deserving of making that cut.  But an ep like this reminds me of why I have stuck with it this long.  In fact, this might have been the best episode since the pilot.

4 hours ago, kili said:

All this talk about coffee cups - I didn't notice the wrongness of the era for coffee sleeves because I was too distracted by the fact that they were completely empty. Milo almost lost control of his cup because it practically floated away with no liquid in it. I get why they don't want to have actual coffee or liquids in the cup, so stick some jello in it to give it some weight and so people can  handle them like they were real. 

Yes, I've been bothered by this for years, particularly since about ten years ago, when my wife (then girlfriend) got me into Gilmore Girls, her favorite show, and I watched all the DVDs with her.  They are egregious offenders on that show.  I even tweeted at two propmasters about this, and one of them seemed like he was open to my suggestion of putting some clay or putty in the bottom (Jello is an interesting idea, but something that doesn't go bad might be better).  The other one sniffed that if someone's a good actor, they should be able to act as though the cup has heft.  But that would require the skills of a master mime, which someone shouldn't have to try to be while also emoting, remembering their lines and where to stand, etc.

More recently I discovered the TV critic Myles McNutt shares our hobby horse.  He even put together a video clip of obviously empty cups.

[Katy M]

9 hours ago, Tiger said:

can handwave 99.9% of the unrealistic stuff that happens on tv, but this bugged the crap out of me, if only because everytime someone visits me at work the procedures I have to go through are exhausting.  

Reason 5,499 I'm glad I don't live in a big city.  Actually, the building I work in has both offices and apartments.  They had to up the security a bit a few years ago because someone from NYC moved into one of the apartments and she complained about the lack of security.  So, now we have mirrors and cameras, but still no security guards or anything.

[SlackerInc]

Okay, now I've seen the whole episode and read through the whole thread!

On 2/14/2017 at 9:29 PM, Amethyst said:

Warming up to Miguel.  You could tell it meant the world to Kevin to hear that he resembles his father, since he was such a hero to his kids.  But jeez, the aging makeup on these actors is terrible.  

Miguel's was always the worst, but I actually thought it was much better this time.  Apparently I'm alone in that opinion.

On 2/15/2017 at 0:44 AM, biakbiak said:

We haven't seen Beth's family either, hell I don't remember if they mentioned anyone other than her dead dad. The show has tons of characters and is also delving into the past of course their are storylines we aren't going to see at this point. 

Yes, this was a logistical issue on Parenthood as well.  Of the three people who married into the Braverman clan (or four if you count Sarah's ex), only one of them (Jasmine) had her family (her mom and brother) shown in any significant way.  Kristina was given a sort of emotionally abusive mom who would occasionally call (but not be heard on the other end of the line) to say she couldn't show for important occasions.  (The Parenthood wiki says she also had a living father and sister, but they were never seen, not even when Kristina was

Spoiler

very ill with breast cancer.

) And Julia's husband Joel very conveniently was an only child with both his parents deceased.  But I don't blame either show for any of it, because having holiday episodes and showing a bazillion in-laws is just too unwieldy.  And you can't have them be basically extras, so they'd have to be available to play the same characters again for every holiday potentially for years.

22 hours ago, luna1122 said:

If Jack commits suicide, I'm probably out. That doesn't seem remotely in his nature, and unless we got a lot more background and groundwork and motivation and reason and history, it would just seem like an incredibly cheap manipulation to make everyone's head's explode from weeping so copiously.

Which means that's probably just what they'll go for. Ugh.

All I can say is that my father took his own life (I hate the phrase "commit suicide") when I was fifteen, and everyone except my mother was taken completely by surprise.  He and I were close (lots of camping trips together just the two of us, playing racquetball and table tennis, going to movies together and discussing our favorite science fiction) and I had no idea he was even depressed.  He was an outgoing guy, always smiling and bantering, and not a whiff of flop sweat or desperation to it.  He was beloved by many people inside and outside our family, and it was just a complete shock.

11 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I'm not familiar with ticket sales for plays, but I would assume that news of the opening night would spread rapidly through the theater crowd, and they might have a real problem selling tickets to future performances.

OTOH if they were guaranteed to get their money back if he doesn't show, there might be a lot of curiosity.  If the past couple years have taught us anything, it's that people are attracted to trainwrecks.

8 hours ago, kimrey said:

Thank you! This has been bothering me too. They came for Thanksgiving and never left. I understand staying a bit longer because of Toby's heart attack, but they've been there for maybe 2 months now? What about their jobs, apartments, etc. in LA? I don't think they've had any lines about deciding to leave everything behind and stay out there.

Great question!  Particularly about Toby.  The issue with Kate has been raised before, but she hadn't had her job long, and it was ambiguous as to whether or not she even kept it before going out for Thanksgiving.  Toby OTOH apparently has/had some kind of high paying job (that paid for his therapist's Lexus).  I suppose he's on medical leave?  But that's got to be over fairly soon, now that he's out and about, I'd think.

I wondered where they are even living at the moment, but I guess right now they are both staying in Toby's hotel room?

Edited February 16, 2017 by SlackerInc
I'm a stickler for italicizing show names

[betha]

Where does Rebecca live now? I thought she and Miguel are still in Pittsburgh-- but Kevin stopped in on the same day as his opening?

[luna1122]

29 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

 

All I can say is that my father took his own life (I hate the phrase "commit suicide") when I was fifteen, and everyone except my mother was taken completely by surprise.  He and I were close (lots of camping trips together just the two of us, playing racquetball and table tennis, going to movies together and discussing our favorite science fiction) and I had no idea he was even depressed.  He was an outgoing guy, always smiling and bantering, and not a whiff of flop sweat or desperation to it.  He was beloved by many people inside and outside our family, and it was just a complete shock.

 

I am so very sorry this happened to you all; I can't even imagine. So I guess it could happen with Jack, and I guess it wouldn't merely feel like a plot device, but I still might be unable to watch if that were to happen, for a lot of reasons, but mostly because, as has been noted, subtlety is not in this show's DNA. It would just be too much.

Edited February 16, 2017 by luna1122

[sadiegirl1999]

8 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

 

(2) Okay...but how prevalent would they have been?  I just feel like it's a little early, especially for Pittsburgh.  I'm curious to hear what other people think though.

That scene was jarring to me too!

I get that everyone is saying Starbucks was around back then, yada yada yada but I feel like in the 90's, that was still too soon for the "coffee cup with sleeve" phase that everyone is in now.

Especially in an office! I feel like back then, they would've had coffee mugs that get washed, etc.

YMMV

[Crs97]

Regarding empty coffee mugs, I remember reading an article about Harrison Ford and they mentioned he stopped a scene when he picked up an empty briefcase.  He had the props department grab some books to put in it.  The author liked his attention to detail.

I am so sorry for your loss, slackerinc.  A policeman in our town took his own life, and it stunned everyone except probably his own family.  The priest at his funeral mass gave the most eloquent and powerful description of depression I have ever heard.  It is such an insidious disease.

[Aloeonatable]

I don't think Jack will kill himself, nor die in and alcohol related car crash, and I also don't think we will see it this season. Maybe the fact that Kate can't talk about her father's death means that she feels somewhat responsible for Jack dying. I do think that Jack and Rebecca are headed for at the least a separation if not divorce. I remember that when my brother divorced his wife of 35 years, my husband and I questioned whether that could happen to us and we did go through some tough times. Maybe the Miguel/Shelly divorce affects Jack and Rebecca that way. I know they did think about that. 

[kirkola]

1 hour ago, SlackerInc said:

All I can say is that my father took his own life (I hate the phrase "commit suicide") when I was fifteen, and everyone except my mother was taken completely by surprise.  He and I were close (lots of camping trips together just the two of us, playing racquetball and table tennis, going to movies together and discussing our favorite science fiction) and I had no idea he was even depressed.  He was an outgoing guy, always smiling and bantering, and not a whiff of flop sweat or desperation to it.  He was beloved by many people inside and outside our family, and it was just a complete shock.

 

Sorry for your loss.  Losing my father in my 40s has been hard.  Losing him as a 15 year old would have been devastating. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, kili said:

All this talk about coffee cups - I didn't notice the wrongness of the era for coffee sleeves because I was too distracted by the fact that they were completely empty. Milo almost lost control of his cup because it practically floated away with no liquid in it. I get why they don't want to have actual coffee or liquids in the cup, so stick some jello in it to give it some weight and so people can  handle them like they were real. 

This is a pet peeve of mine, too!  I don't understand why they can't even put water in them, either.  

I also am bugged by virtually all actors doing this phony sip thing where they take a sip, then don't even feign a swallow, they just immediately launch into a line of dialog.  As the cup is being removed from their lips, they're yammering.  Try that in real life.  I did notice Milo did a better job of faking actual drinking than most.  I even asked a decent theater actor I know why no one acting bothers drinking realistically.  He basically said, "Who notices that, seriously?"  

I also am amazed at what special effects can accomplish and yet still prop ice cubes always look like plastic, phony prop ice cubes.  No one can invent realistic looking fake ice cubes?  

[ClareWalks]

4 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I also am bugged by virtually all actors doing this phony sip thing where they take a sip, then don't even feign a swallow, they just immediately launch into a line of dialog.  As the cup is being removed from their lips, they're yammering.  Try that in real life.  I did notice Milo did a better job of faking actual drinking than most.  I even asked a decent theater actor I know why no one acting bothers drinking realistically.  He basically said, "Who notices that, seriously?"  

That's amazing. I was in exactly one play in high school, and in it I had to swallow a pill. I went out of my way to get Tic Tacs so I could take an actual "pill" onstage. So what if nobody would see the physical tablet? People do certain things when swallowing pills that they don't do when they're just faking it. <Jon Lovitz> ACTIIIIIING!

[Kohola3]

Quote

He basically said, "Who notices that, seriously?"  

Um, well, me.  But then I don't drink coffee so I don't tote around cups all the time. I'm not into the minutiae, I guess.

30 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

 I do think that Jack and Rebecca are headed for at the least a separation if not divorce.

That seems a bit extreme after one argument. I know we don't see every minute but they are portrayed as totally in synch 99% of the time.  I can't imagine split over the road trip thing.

[SimoneS]

22 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I'm not familiar with ticket sales for plays, but I would assume that news of the opening night would spread rapidly through the theater crowd, and they might have a real problem selling tickets to future performances.  Add to which, Sloan is likely to tell him to FOAD for embarrassing her in front of the crowd and the NYT critic.  She might be able to salvage something but not with him in association.

I think that it would be the reverse. Broadway shows are only financial successes if they get the general public to attend. This is why the money people, much to the chagrin of Broadway actors, always try to get well known actors to headline shows.  I just attended "The Present" starring Cate Blanchett on Broadway. I only went because I am such a huge fan of her work.  The play has gotten mixed reviews, but is a financial success because her name has brought in a steady stream of regular folks like me to the theatre.

Kevin isn't some unknown slob. He is a well known actor from a hit tv show. If he did a tv interview on one of those morning shows explaining that he had a family emergency, invited people to see the play for free for a week's performances, and the play got good reviews, the whole incident will turn into a major PR victory as regular people who didn't even know that he was doing a play would flock to see him. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by SimoneS

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, kili said:

All this talk about coffee cups - I didn't notice the wrongness of the era for coffee sleeves because I was too distracted by the fact that they were completely empty. Milo almost lost control of his cup because it practically floated away with no liquid in it. I get why they don't want to have actual coffee or liquids in the cup, so stick some jello in it to give it some weight and so people can  handle them like they were real.

Like many others, this is a pet peeve of mine as well. It doesn't take much to put water (at least) in a cup and take an actual sip when you're supposed to. Not ever actor is a mime (clearly, as so many of us can tell when the cups are empty).

1 hour ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

I get that everyone is saying Starbucks was around back then, yada yada yada but I feel like in the 90's, that was still too soon for the "coffee cup with sleeve" phase that everyone is in now.

Especially in an office! I feel like back then, they would've had coffee mugs that get washed, etc.

YMMV

I can't speak to the specific cup and sleeve, but we did have a (non Starbucks) coffee kiosk outside our offices in 1995. There were a number of them all around. I don't remember what the cups looked like, but I don't remember burning my fingers, so I'm guessing they had sleeves. We also had coffee pots and mugs in the office. But the coffee craze was starting - my office mates and I bought fancy coffee for inside the office (we turned our noses up at Starbucks, which we thought was over roasted). This was in California, though.

7 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

That's amazing. I was in exactly one play in high school, and in it I had to swallow a pill. I went out of my way to get Tic Tacs so I could take an actual "pill" onstage. So what if nobody would see the physical tablet? People do certain things when swallowing pills that they don't do when they're just faking it. <Jon Lovitz> ACTIIIIIING!

I once had to take a bite of a sandwich on stage (in high school). In rehearsal it was a baloney sandwich - but the crew pranked me, and it was peanut butter (no jelly) instead. That was a looong pause in the dialog, let me tell you.

[Kktjones]

21 hours ago, Biggie B said:

WWJD = What would Jack do?

Well on this show Jack pretty much = Jesus, so the acronym is spot on!

[Crs97]

Quote

 I also am bugged by virtually all actors doing this phony sip thing where they take a sip, then don't even feign a swallow, they just immediately launch into a line of dialog.  As the cup is being removed from their lips, they're yammering.  Try that in real life.  

I also don't like people ordering in a restaurant, saying their lines, and then leaving either before the food even gets there or after taking only a bite or two.  Pulls me out of the scene very quickly.

Quote

WWJD = What would Jack do?

Jesus asks Himself that very question. 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Crs97

[mansonlamps]

UO here.  I'd have a huge problem with my husband going "on tour" with an old girlfriend who still had the hots for him.  Especially since part of their act seems to be making googly eyes at each other while singing love songs.  Even though I trust him, that's a charged atmosphere fraught with temptation.  And I'm not the jealous type as a rule.  I totally side with Jack on this one, singing in the club should be enough for now while the kids are still teens and need someone home with them. Why not postpone the tour for a couple of years until Jack can go with them?

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I don't remember what the cups looked like, but I don't remember burning my fingers, so I'm guessing they had sleeves.

I was thinking they must've been styrofoam but then wondered if that had already fallen out of fashion by then so I googled it.  I think it had.  McDonald's started phasing it out in 1990.  

That must've been great marketing -- the fall of foam.  I still can't bring myself to buy a Circle K fountain drink because of the styrofoam cups, but I can freely pick up the plastic ones from QT.  

[Evagirl]

3 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

UO here.  I'd have a huge problem with my husband going "on tour" with an old girlfriend who still had the hots for him.  Especially since part of their act seems to be making googly eyes at each other while singing love songs.  Even though I trust him, that's a charged atmosphere fraught with temptation.  And I'm not the jealous type as a rule.  I totally side with Jack on this one, singing in the club should be enough for now while the kids are still teens and need someone home with them. Why not postpone the tour for a couple of years until Jack can go with them?

Agree.  We have to make sacrifices in this life.  Our children didn't ask to come here or to be our children.  If one isn't prepared to devote themselves to raising children from the cradle to 18 or so, then they shouldn't have children.  She said she'd given or sacrificed 16 years of her life for the family.  My response would have been, "So what?  So have I because that's what parents do."

[Katy M]

4 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I even asked a decent theater actor I know why no one acting bothers drinking realistically.  He basically said, "Who notices that, seriously?"  

I saw Lauren Graham on a talk show (don't remember which one) and the host told her there had been complaints about how she holds the coffee cups unrealistically, and that they need to have something in them so that she doesn't do that.  She said that stuff like that actually drives her crazy and there is always coffee in her coffee cup.  So, I suppose she could be lying, but it also goes to show that we don't all do things the same way.

5 hours ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

Especially in an office! I feel like back then, they would've had coffee mugs that get washed, etc.

Maybe, but not necessarily.  This would have been around '96.  I graduated college in '94 (yes I'm old) and I remember at some point in college seeing a Murphy Brown episode, which I have no idea why I was watching, I hated that show.  But, anyway, IIRC, in this episode they were supposed to be more environmentally friendly or something, so they had to check with takeout places that they didn't use Styrofoam or plastic, and they had to switch to reusable mugs.  I also remember the same thing re: the mugs and a bet on Days of Our Lives at the hospital, also when I was in college or shortly thereafter.

[Guest]

Quote

My response would have been, "So what?  So have I because that's what parents do."

I tend to agree.  As a mom, I find it an honor to make those daily sacrifices, not a burden.  

I also don't see Rebecca as some potentially huge music star, at least based on what we've seen so far.  The world is full of very talented lounge singers.  But I think the show is going to make it out that this tour is what stands between her and super stardom.  Which is pretty outlandish to me.   She wasn't invited to open for Michael Buble or something, right?  Just hit a few cities with some other no-name, regional band?  

[ShadowFacts]

8 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I just finished up this episode. Although I love this show, this is the first episode that brought me past being verklempt to actual tears. My mom died in 2012 and other than just saying that it happened. I cannot talk about it. This includes with siblings who know the details. I get choked up and the words literally won't come out. Kate trying to tell Toby about Jack's death reminded me of that.

Around that same time that I was dealing with my mom stuff, I was going to graduate schoo full time, working full time, and trying to keep an over 100-lb weight loss under control. Several days I had the thought if I walked into rush hour traffic (I am from Chicago and worked downtown), no matter the outcome, no one would expect anything of me after. Randall's situation reminded me of that.

I even related to Toby's suicide/depression story (you all know I hate Toby), Rebecca wanting something for herself story, and Jack needing a drink story.

So much about this episode was resonant.  Losing a parent is a near-universal experience.  Depression and anxiety are very common.  Seeing Randall shut down felt real, and I'm glad they gave Toby the dimension of having been depressed/contemplating suicide, and that he can talk about it.  As far as Jack possibly having taken his own life, I tend to think not, but then again, it isn't handled much on t.v. and if they want to go bold, it would give a lot of story possibilities with the aftermath. 

[Biggie B]

Quote

This would have been around '96.  I graduated college in '94 (yes I'm old) and I remember at some point in college seeing a Murphy Brown episode, which I have no idea why I was watching, I hated that show.  But, anyway, IIRC, in this episode they were supposed to be more environmentally friendly or something, so they had to check with takeout places that they didn't use Styrofoam or plastic, and they had to switch to reusable mugs.  I also remember the same thing re: the mugs and a bet on Days of Our Lives at the hospital, also when I was in college or shortly thereafter.

Oh dear...if you graduated from college in 1994, and you're "old," what does that make me? I graduated from college in 1984!!!! A few years later, in 1990, I was working in a mid-sized law firm in Manhattan, and they phased out paper/Styrofoam coffee cups and replaced them with mugs with the firm's logo on it. Each mug was numbered on the bottom, so you could have "your" own mug. They were run through the dishwasher each night by the cleaning staff. I lived and worked in NYC from 1984 to 1993 but I'm not a coffee drinker, so I can't remember when Starbucks rose to prominence. Most folks seemed to buy coffee from a local deli or market and these cups were common:

[PRgal]

^^^ I think Starbucks became a "thing" some time around '97-2000 (a Starbucks opened near my school around '96-'97 and people with off-campus privileges always went out for Frappuccinos).  I recall people freaking out when small chains and mom/pop shops (mostly donut type places) were closing and being replaced by Starbucks.  Of course, now, indies are a "thing," but they all serve espresso drinks.  And spell your name correctly.

[Guest]

I finally watched the ep last night and looked hard at Sullivan's head and neck.  There is no way he's wearing any facial prosthetics, in my opinion.  I don't know if that one excellent pic of him is photoshopped but I think he just can look much better in some angles/positions (and with a hat).  

And that 'mouth hanging ajar' thing he does is so unattractive.  I kind of wonder if he knows he looks a lot worse like that and with his head held to maximize that chin and purposely does it as part of his 'usual Toby' persona.  And I wonder if he'll drop it when we get to post-fat-suit Toby.  Because as himself (or Benny in Stranger Things) he's just more handsome than Toby.  

[luna1122]

41 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

UO here.  I'd have a huge problem with my husband going "on tour" with an old girlfriend who still had the hots for him.  Especially since part of their act seems to be making googly eyes at each other while singing love songs.  Even though I trust him, that's a charged atmosphere fraught with temptation.  And I'm not the jealous type as a rule.  I totally side with Jack on this one, singing in the club should be enough for now while the kids are still teens and need someone home with them. Why not postpone the tour for a couple of years until Jack can go with them?

I don't think this an UO. Pretty much everyone seems to be anti-Rebecca-touring. I'm a little surprised at it, tho I also get it, on some level. My significant other is a musician, teaches music, plays in several bands locally. If he were suddenly to go on a 5 city tour, I'd be less than delighted. He's never given me reason to not trust him, but as has been discussed in the 'Social Issues' thread, people are human and temptations exist and some find monogamy an outdated premise that nobody lives up to anyway. Add booze and dark bars and yeah, I'd be not happy. Add a hot bandmate who was a former ex, and yeah, no,  I get Jack's reaction.

Issues of trust or lies or jealous or fidelity aside, I don't quite get all the piling on Rebecca for taking a couple weeks to do this thing she wants to do. No, she's probably not going to get famous. Yeah, it's an inconvenience to Jack and the kids. Yeah, she's a parent, and that's a full time job. But the kids are teens, not little kids, and it's a short period of time to be away. For something that fulfills her, that is her job, in essence, even tho she probably makes very little $$. It's not an ideal situation, but I don't think it makes her a bad parent.

[kili]

Quote

^^^ I think Starbucks became a "thing" some time around '97-2000 

I think Starbucks may have become a "thing" at different times in different places. I remember going for a hot chocolate in '89 and I had my choice of three Starbucks all on the same intersection (3 of the 4 corners).