S01.E15: Public Enemy No. 1

[CooperTV]

 

Quote

Lucy, Wyatt and Rufus decide to take matters into their own hands, but are caught off guard when Flynn lands in 1931 Chicago to call in a favor from notorious gangster Al Capone.  Hot on Flynn's trail, our heroes try to enlist the help of famed lawman, Elliot Ness, in pursuit of Al Capone after Flynn aids him in avoiding justice. A clue leads the team to a crucial revelation about Rittenhouse. 

Promos

[j5cochran]

That pillbox hat and three-quarter length sleeved suit on Lucy looks very Jackie Kennedy 1960s to me, not Al Capone 1930s.

[CooperTV]

14 minutes ago, j5cochran said:

That pillbox hat and three-quarter length sleeved suit on Lucy looks very Jackie Kennedy 1960s to me, not Al Capone 1930s.

Answered here.

[dubbel zout]

The names they choose are amusing, and Rufus's reaction to being Robert DeNiro was adorable. Why is Malcolm Barrett so underused?!

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I am crossing my fingers we'll see Castiel, er I mean Elliot, in a trench coat [preferably a tan one] for at least one quick shot tonight, even if just only its just shown as him in a photograph.

[Bunty]

There was a 2 season TV show called The Untouchables that ran 1993-1994 with Tom Amandes playing Eliot Ness that I remember liking.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106165/?ref_=fn_tt_tt_12

[benteen]

RUFUS!!!!!!!!!!

I doubt he'll stay dead but damn...that was rough.

If Elliot Ness was killed in 1931, does that mean Robert Stack never starred in The Untouchables and hosted Unsolved Mysteries?  I find that very upsetting.

Ness's role in taking down Al Capone is mostly legend.  He and his men did affect Capone's bootlegging business but it was really the tax evasion that brought him down.  Ness's best work in law enforcement came as Public Safety Director in Cleveland a few years later.  Killing him was a serious alteration.

This show continues to impress me with their use of little-known historical facts, like bringing in James Capone (aka Richard Hart).  Checking Wikipedia, Capone really did have an older brother who was a Prohibition agent during that time.  Very impressive, show.

What was the Chicago Mayor's name?  I know the Mayor of Chicago was killed in 1933 during an assassination attempt on the life of President-Elect Roosevelt.

Liked the opening scene with Flynn and the Priest.

I'm looking forward to the season finale but hope it's not the series finale instead.

Edited February 14, 2017 by benteen

[ketose]

Let's see. Flynn gets what he wants. Team Eyeball does nothing but get Capone killed at the cost of Elliot Ness' life. Fewer people would have died if they went back to 1962 and killed Flynn's mother. Plus, they could have shot the special forces guy after the mission and traveled to the location of the mother ship, blew up the lifeboat, taken the mothership back to get Lucy's mom married and hooked on smoking again, then blown up the mothership when they got back.

Now, Flynn would never exist, so wouldn't Rittenhouse have the time machine after that? No, because I still think Flynn's murderous rampage throughout history made Rittenhouse evil.

Next week is the finale, so I'm guessing we'll never really learn anything.

[Randomosity]

Ah, so that explains why Lucy looked like photos of my grandma, not my great-grandma...

But poor Rufus! Of course, they ruin any of the suspense of the fade-to-black with previews of them having made it perfectly fine back to the present. So he may be in rough shape, but we still know he gets them there. (Meanwhile, stranded in the 30s could have been a decent plot too...)

I liked this one. The Gap jeans, the fruits and nuts from California, Lucy's ridiculously goofy pride at holding the gun during their hijack.

I feel like I had major ER flashbacks with Kovac, errrr, Flynn, in the church at the beginning. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but didn't Kovac also have some religious crisis of faith that had him in a church a lot? Anyone else an ER-watcher?

And major kudos to Jiya in this one, although I feel like we have to be ok with a whole lot of arm-waving for her to have not only hacked in, but to have done it in like an hour from a computer she constructed of spare parts.

I'm looking forward to the finale, but not if it means the end of the series :(

[Goldmoon]

I was disappointed that  Ness was killed so early. I hope they don't kill Rufus for the shock value. Are there any more EPS after next week?

[Randomosity]

9 minutes ago, benteen said:

If Elliot Ness was killed in 1931, does that mean Robert Stack never starred in The Untouchables and hosted Unsolved Mysteries?  I find that very upsetting.

Whoa. Same. That's not ok to not have him host. He was the creepiest part about the show!

[ketose]

3 minutes ago, Randomosity said:

And major kudos to Jiya in this one, although I feel like we have to be ok with a whole lot of arm-waving for her to have not only hacked in, but to have done it in like an hour from a computer she constructed of spare parts.

I'm looking forward to the finale, but not if it means the end of the series :(

Minimum, she'd need a processor board, wifi adapter, keyboard and monitor. It depends on the spare parts.

[Goldmoon]

I was disappointed that  Ness was killed so early. I hope they don't kill Rufus for the shock value. Are there any more EPS after next week?

So tell me why Jiya was in a functional room instead of a holding cell. Oh, plot contrivance!

Edited February 14, 2017 by Goldmoon

[shapeshifter]

5 minutes ago, Randomosity said:

. . . And major kudos to Jiya in this one, although I feel like we have to be ok with a whole lot of arm-waving for her to have not only hacked in, but to have done it in like an hour from a computer she constructed of spare parts. . . .

The way the scene was shot, scored, and edited sold it for me; I didn't even think of the magic required. 

Jiya/Claudia Doumit and Rufus/Malcom Barrett both have excellent timing; they should get all the comic relief lines. Like Rufus [slightly shrugging]: "I'm likeable." And Jiya [looking innocent]: "I still have to pee."

[JoeSchwike]

11 minutes ago, Goldmoon said:

I was disappointed that  Ness was killed so early. I hope they don't kill Rufus for the shock value. Are there any more EPS after next week?

So tell me why Jiya was in a functional room instead of a holding cell. Oh, plot contrivance!

She's still at Mason Industries, guessing they haven't had time to take her to a black site, and they can hardly take her to a regular precint and charge her with interfering with a stolen time machine.

[KaveDweller]

17 minutes ago, benteen said:

RUFUS!!!!!!!!!!

I doubt he'll stay dead but damn...that was rough.

If Elliot Ness was killed in 1931, does that mean Robert Stack never starred in The Untouchables and hosted Unsolved Mysteries?  I find that very upsetting.

The pop culture changes are what I always wonder about. I've seen so many mobster shows/movies where they reference how Capone was brought down by taxes. In theory it shouldn't be a huge impact, but what did all those shows/movies reference instead. I am a very detail-oriented person, I want to know these things.

13 minutes ago, ketose said:

Let's see. Flynn gets what he wants. Team Eyeball does nothing but get Capone killed at the cost of Elliot Ness' life. Fewer people would have died if they went back to 1962 and killed Flynn's mother. Plus, they could have shot the special forces guy after the mission and traveled to the location of the mother ship, blew up the lifeboat, taken the mothership back to get Lucy's mom married and hooked on smoking again, then blown up the mothership when they got back.

Now, Flynn would never exist, so wouldn't Rittenhouse have the time machine after that? No, because I still think Flynn's murderous rampage throughout history made Rittenhouse evil.

Next week is the finale, so I'm guessing we'll never really learn anything.

If Team Eyeball killed Flynn's mother in 1962 while Flynn was in 1931 with Capone, would he still not exist? If the locket and Flynn's journal don't change while time traveling, would Flynn disappear? And this would have been the first time we had people simultaneously time traveling in two different times. Or as simultaneously as you can get with time travel.

Lucy's plan to save her sister seemed problematic. Wasn't the issue that the sister's father married someone else before meeting her mom? She's just going to try and get him to leave the descendant of the Hindenburg survivor? That doesn't seem fair to that woman.

If they have Rufus managing the get them back to 2017 while barely conscious, or Wyatt and Lucy manage to drive it back, it will seriously undermine the idea of having one pilot and it taking months to train Jiya.

[benteen]

4 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

The pop culture changes are what I always wonder about. I've seen so many mobster shows/movies where they reference how Capone was brought down by taxes. In theory it shouldn't be a huge impact, but what did all those shows/movies reference instead. I am a very detail-oriented person, I want to know these things.

Sean Connery probably doesn't get his Oscar in the new reality too.

[thuganomics85]

Surprised they offed Ness so quickly.  I guess they were able to get Misha Collins to play him was because he was only needed for a day or two, and then it was back to Supernatural for him!  Even though they still brought down Al Capone, this has to have major implications, right? Even looking past how this would effect the real life, I have to think The Untouchables film would never happen, because I can't see anyone making a film about how Ness failed to capture Al Capone (Kevin Costner certainly wouldn't star, at least.)  That said, there now is probably a film out there about Joe Capone and how he brought down his brother.  I wonder who stars in that one!

I like the idea of them not having time to change into proper attire this time, so the team being dressed in 60s outfits (and Wyatt in modern clothes), and the reactions they got was pretty hilarious.

Cameron Gharaee was a decent Al Capone.  Glad to see him again after Tyrant's cancellation.

I really doubt they will off Rufus, but this looks pretty dire.  Even if Lucy and Wyatt are able to wake him up or they figure out how to send themselves back to the present, how are they going to get him medical attention with the entire government (and Rittenhouse) out for blood.

While it was pretty stupid to just leave Jiya in an area where she can get access to, well, anything really (do they not have any cells or empty rooms, there?  Even one of the window conference rooms would have been better, so they could keep an eye on her), it was still fun watching her fuck them over, and seeing Mason's face every time he realized he got played.

Nevins is now dropping the nice, grandfather-like act.  Jim Beaver sure can be sinister when he wants to be.

So, Flynn's grand plans end up being that he is trying to find out some big-ass meeting between all the Rittenhouse guys, which ends up being somewhere in D.C. at 1954.  Kind of an underwhelming reveal.  Then again, the stuff involving Flynn and his war on Rittenhouse kind of fell apart at the end, anyway.

Season finale next week!  One last time for the timeline to get majorly fucked up!  You can do it, guys!  I have faith in you!

Edited February 14, 2017 by thuganomics85

[KaveDweller]

25 minutes ago, benteen said:

Sean Connery probably doesn't get his Oscar in the new reality too.

Right, so then who won the Oscar instead and how did it change their career? The butterfly effect is endless.

13 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, Flynn's grand plans end up being that he is trying to find out some big-ass meeting between all the Rittenhouse guys, which ends up being somewhere in D.C. at 1954.  Kind of an underwhelming reveal.  Then again, the stuff involving Flynn and his war on Rittenhouse kind of fell apart at the end, anyway.

Season finale next week!  One last time for the timeline to get majorly fucked up!  You can do it, guys!  I have faith in you!

I don't know how Flynn is going to find the big-ass meeting in DC without knowing an exact date or place. I assume his plan is to blow it up or something to kill all the Rittenhouse leaders? Surely Rittenhouse has a designated survivor or something though.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Even though Rufus was shot in a desperate moment, Wyatt just can't catch a break.  If anyone catches flak for the situation, it'll be him.  "The trained DF guy should have reacted faster and pushed him to safety!!"

Well, hell of a setup for the season* finale, going into it with a cliffhanger like that.  Poor Rufus.  But why did it take 15 episodes for Flynn finally figure that out?  Taking out the other team's pilot should have been a priority from the start.

What a waste of guest appearance on MC's part.  Basically just a cameo.  Sheez.

Damn, Mason has gone full *evil mastermind laugh while stroking mustache*, hasn't he?

I really like Jiya.  She's really grown on me.

Rittenhouse dad is skeevy. 

Wyatt:  "... and I'm wearing button-fly jeans from the GAP!"
Lucy:  *eyes drop to his crotch, er, pants*

[* = season finale, for now, but could be the series' one if not picked up]

[phalange]

I was laughing so hard at Mason getting trolled with Rufus' computer virus, and then Jiya proved to be the real MVP by assembling a computer and then using it to shut down the whole system. They made Mason's day a whole lot more difficult and he deserved it, because he's a coward and I'm done with his shenanigans. 

I love that the first thing Wyatt wanted to do after they got the lifeboat was to use it to get Lucy's sister back. Even though they obviously didn't get the chance, it clearly meant a lot to Lucy that he suggested it.

Poor Rufus getting shot in 1931! That makes two out of three of the Time Team who've gotten shot while in the past. 

[HunterHunted]

On 2/7/2017 at 7:30 AM, dubbel zout said:

The names they choose are amusing, and Rufus's reaction to being Robert DeNiro was adorable. Why is Malcolm Barrett so underused?!

I kind of feel like their pseudonyms are a wink to Supernatural. The boys use fake names all the time, with Castiel...I mean Agent Beyonce... being the absolute worst at it.

Gah, Rufus! He can't be dead. All time traveling needs to have a Rufus. It's one of the tenets that Wyld Stallyns laid out to us in order to have a most excellent society.

Finally Flynn thinks of a half decent plan--kill Rufus and kill all of the Rittenhouse leaders in a group gathering. Too little too late buddy. I still hate you.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

24 minutes ago, phalange said:

I was laughing so hard at Mason getting trolled with Rufus' computer virus, and then Jiya proved to be the real MVP by assembling a computer and then using it to shut down the whole system. They made Mason's day a whole lot more difficult and he deserved it, because he's a coward and I'm done with his shenanigans. 

I love that the first thing Wyatt wanted to do after they got the lifeboat was to use it to get Lucy's sister back. Even though they obviously didn't get the chance, it clearly meant a lot to Lucy that he suggested it.

Poor Rufus getting shot in 1931! That makes two out of three of the Time Team who've gotten shot while in the past. 

That combined with her reaction put the Wucy shippers over the moon. 

{Disclaimer:  I don't not ship them, necessarily, but there's going to be romance in pretty much every show, so its more about acceptance than fighting it and ruining enjoyment of the overall product}

[Quilt Fairy]

2 hours ago, benteen said:

What was the Chicago Mayor's name?  I know the Mayor of Chicago was killed in 1933 during an assassination attempt on the life of President-Elect Roosevelt.

Anton Cermak.

[paulvdb]

Locking Jiya in that room with the computer parts reminded me of every episode of the A-Team where the bad guys would lock the team up in a place with everything they needed to build some sort of armored vehicle.

[bros402]

I really hope next week is not the series finale. This show has gotten really good after it got its footing, but it needs show how major things affected the new reality (like killing Cornwallis)

[Ariah]

If only the show did this not in the 15th but like 8th episode... We could have used a lot less time-jumping after Flynn and a lot more renegade Eye-team.

Fingers crossed season 2 is happening. 

[ketose]

I hope Flynn goes to that Rittenhouse meeting and finds a relative there. I assume Lucy's grandfather will be there.

[Bort]

3 hours ago, bros402 said:

I really hope next week is not the series finale. This show has gotten really good after it got its footing, but it needs show how major things affected the new reality (like killing Cornwallis)

They have, and I think that's the point: the devil may be in the details, but the end result is the same.

[Writing Wrongs]

If they had tried to get Lucy's sister back, would it even still be the sister she knew?

[Eneya]

Depends. If they simply reintroduce the father to her mother... sure, why not? But the mother is back to being dead/dying?

[waving feather]

So glad to have Team Eyeball back in action. Seriously, Wyatt, Lucy and Rufus are the most likable when they are interacting with each other. And I love that Rufus and Lucy took out the new tactical team leader and made Wyatt proud! They were all adorable in that scene.

The big Rittenhouse and Flynn plot never made sense to me and I'm done with Flynn in general but what I love about this show are the little things: Lucy's excited puppy dog eyes when Wyatt suggested they go get her sister back, the Gap button jeans, all of Rufus' expressions, Al Capone and his brother, Jiya's face.

[jcin617]

If they were so adverse to killing Flynn's mother, all they had to do is abduct her and bring her into the present. 

[vibeology]

10 hours ago, Randomosity said:

I feel like I had major ER flashbacks with Kovac, errrr, Flynn, in the church at the beginning. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but didn't Kovac also have some religious crisis of faith that had him in a church a lot? Anyone else an ER-watcher?

I don't know if a lot is accurate because my memory is fuzzy too but yes, Luka had some church time and a crisis of faith.

I really like these characters and the premise of the show but since we're almost done the season, I do have to say that my big problem is I don't have confidence in the writing of this show in many ways that undermines my love (and trust) for this show. The fact that we're almost done the season and we still don't understand the time travel rules is a huge problem. I know they've killed him off, but Anthony travelling back to time periods where he surely would have been alive has never been explained. The way characters do dumb things for plot reasons that seem like they would be out of character. In this episode Mason immediately knew that Jiya shouldn't be trusted yet she's left in a room full of computer supplies and with some sort of access to what must be a secure system. He's a smart guy and he knew right away that she would and could do anything to help Rufus yet leaves her unsupervised for hours when the place is crawling with NSA agents. And there have been moments like that every episode where someone gets stuck holding the idiot ball to make a plot point happen.

And finally the ending is a huge reason why I don't feel confidence in the writing of this show. Rufus is passed out and probably dying but I cannot believe that won't be resolved in seconds at the start of the next episode. They did a similar thing with Flynn taking Lucy and that was barely a blip on the overall plot. Same with huge changes in the past not showing up in the present. This show goes for shocking moments but fails on the follow-up and that's a major problem.

I like Lucy, Rufus, Wyatt, Agent Christopher, Jiya and Flynn (in that he has potential to be a great villain) so I want this show to keep going but unless they pull a huge twist next week that totally changes my understanding of what they've been doing all season, I don't think this show will ever be great. It'll be fun and that's enough to keep me watching, but it won't be great and that's a shame because between the cast and the concept, I should be.

[Primetimer]

But on the eve of the season finale, let's rank a few things that might have been.

View the full article

[Sandman]

10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I have to think The Untouchables film would never happen, because I can't see anyone making a film about how Ness failed to capture Al Capone (Kevin Costner certainly wouldn't star, at least.)

It would probably end up a comedy of errors starring John Goodman. (Followed twenty years later by an inferior remake in the schlubby/gross-out school starring Kevin James. Tagline: "I got your untouchable right here!")

[withanaich]

Depends. If they simply reintroduce the father to her mother... sure, why not? But the mother is back to being dead/dying?

If they don't have sex at the exact same time they did before, it won't be the same sperm and egg meeting. So unless Lucy knows exactly what time that happened (which, ew, how could she?), what she's asking for is utterly IMPOSSIBLE. I so don't care about Wyatt's dead wife, but at least he has some kind of chance of going back in time and preventing her from being killed (the only reason his attempt didn't work is because he pegged the wrong man as her killer). What Lucy's asking for is freaking ridiculous, even on a time-travel show, and I wish everyone would stop pretending like she has a snowball's chance in hell of pulling it off. It feels like they're patronizing her and the writers are patronizing us.

[vibeology]

7 minutes ago, withanaich said:

If they don't have sex at the exact same time they did before, it won't be the same sperm and egg meeting. So unless Lucy knows exactly what time that happened (which, ew, how could she?), what she's asking for is utterly IMPOSSIBLE. I so don't care about Wyatt's dead wife, but at least he has some kind of chance of going back in time and preventing her from being killed (the only reason his attempt didn't work is because he pegged the wrong man as her killer). What Lucy's asking for is freaking ridiculous, even on a time-travel show, and I wish everyone would stop pretending like she has a snowball's chance in hell of pulling it off. It feels like they're patronizing her and the writers are patronizing us.

I don't even know if that's true. If her death is somehow connected to Rittenhouse it's very possible that the one guy was her killer in the first timeline but when he wasn't available after Wyatt changed history, Rittenhouse just got someone else to do it.

But yes, I agree that Lucy's "I want my sister back" is going to be a nearly impossible feat. The only way I think you can do it is if you stop Flynn from ever going back in time at all. If he never goes back in the first place, none of the changes happen and Lucy's sister is alive and her mom is still dying. Which is why the go back in time and kill Flynn's Mom plan (while horrible) has seemed like the most logical thing suggested so far.

[Fireball]

Can someone explain why Rittenhouse decided to kill Flynn's mother instead of I don't know just killing young Flynn? I didn't understand the reasoning. Was Rittenhouse afraid that if they just killed young Flynn that his mother would have another child that would turn into Flynn 2.0? 

ETA: If it was explained in the show I missed it, but I wasn't exactly paying attention the whole time.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Fireball

[Eneya]

Because they can't go to time in which they already exists and apparently they are really close age to Flynn? IDK...

[basiltherat]

I loved Jiva as Lady MacGyver!  If I were a big bad, I would have just locked her in a bathroom and eliminated any nagging, or chances of her doing mayhem.

Did our heroes kill notBamBam or just knock him out?  Because if they killed him and were all queasy at killing Flynn's mom, I call hypocrites.

Lifelong Chicago resident here calling ho-hum at yet another corrupt Chicago mayor.

But, the greatest loss is:  no Eliot Ness, no Untouchables, no Robert Stack, and NO ROBERT STACK IN AIRPLANE!

[Stuffy]

7 minutes ago, basiltherat said:

Did our heroes kill notBamBam or just knock him out?  Because if they killed him and were all queasy at killing Flynn's mom, I call hypocrites.

 

He was shot with a dart so probably just put to sleep.

[Mabel]

13 hours ago, vibeology said:

I really like these characters and the premise of the show but since we're almost done the season, I do have to say that my big problem is I don't have confidence in the writing of this show in many ways that undermines my love (and trust) for this show.

 

it's a pity the main story is developing at a snail's pace and is still quite confusing. Feels like the showrunners can't really make up their mind - whether they want a procedural (basically focusing on various important events in American history) or a serialized story with this Rittenhouse, whatever that is. And with the serialized story it's not quite clear if the writers actually know where they are going. There is this frustrating lack of general drive / direction. For a conspiracy-themed show, Timeless just doesn't quite deliver the goods.

I initially started watching Timeless for Goran Višnjić - really liked him in ER (and yes, in this episode, there were glimpses of his ER performance). but it seems that either his acting capabilities have greatly deterioritated since ER (which I struggle to believe, because he was terrific in ER- great acting range), or the writers don't really know what to do with Flynn - he appears more of a plot device than a fleshed out character.

Maybe things will take a better turn if the show doesn't get cancelled after one season (which, I think, is a distinct possibility with the current level of writing). After Alamo episode, Timeless is getting better and better. wish it had happened quicker, though

Edited February 15, 2017 by Mabel

[benteen]

Quote

But, the greatest loss is:  no Eliot Ness, no Untouchables, no Robert Stack, and NO ROBERT STACK IN AIRPLANE!

Well, Stack still would have become an actor but still...no Untouchables AND no Unsolved Mysteries!  And perhaps no Robert Stack in Airplane!

Speaking of which, really  been enjoying the old Robert Stack Unsolved Mysteries on Amazon.  He did do an Elliot Ness segment but it was Ness's unsuccessful investigation of the Torso Slayer.  Ness's best work was in Cleveland but that was one case he couldn't crack when he was there.

Edited February 14, 2017 by benteen

[reggiejax]

1 hour ago, Fireball said:

Can someone explain why Rittenhouse decided to kill Flynn's mother instead of I don't know just killing young Flynn? I didn't understand the reasoning. Was Rittenhouse afraid that if they just killed young Flynn that his mother would have another child that would turn into Flynn 2.0? 

Clearly the bigwigs at Rittenhouse had stolen the Skynet playbook when formulating their plan, but had only read the first chapter. 
 

Quote

 

What was the Chicago Mayor's name?  I know the Mayor of Chicago was killed in 1933 during an assassination attempt on the life of President-Elect Roosevelt.

 

That was William "Big Bill" Thompson. Later in 1931 he would lose the election to Anton Cermak. It was Cermak who would be shot and killed during the attempt on Roosevelt's life.

I enjoyed the episode, and loved learning more about Richard Hart, aka Al Capone's big brother. I had heard about him, but did not really know much. On the downside, it made me look him up, which caused me to realize they took quite a few liberties. First and foremost being that, while he was a Prohibition agent, he was working out of Homer, Nebraska in 1931. So the idea that Lucy, Wyatt and Rufus could show up at his doorstep to recruit him to take down his brother is not realistic.

But even if I had not known that, and accepted that Hart lived in Chicago, I was still confused as to how it was expected that Richard Hart could step in and arrest and take down Capone in a way that serves as a proper replacement for Ness. What jurisdiction could he possibly have in this instance? Hart was a Prohibition agent, and yes,  everyone knew Capone was a bootlegger. But if it was as simple as arresting him for it, it would have happened that easily. I presume they wanted Hart to take him in for the Ness murder. An arrest certainly can be made, but how do they make it stick? I am pretty certain our time travelers did not stick around to explain to the police what happened. So we have two dead people in a run down apartment. That killer was sent by Capone, but I don't think Al is dumb enough to send anyone who could easily be connected to him, at least not in court. So again, how does Richard Hart take Elliott Ness' place as the man who took down Capone? 

Well we know the only way Hart can end Capone's reign of terror, and that is how it played out. But I don't think that is what Lucy planned on happening. 

And she thinks she can bring back her sister. Not likely. Costanza had a better chance being Seinfeld's latex salesman. 

Edited February 14, 2017 by reggiejax

[iMonrey]

The decision to go back to 1962 and take out Flynn's mother is what they should have done on Day 2, or at least after the first few failed attempts to take out Flynn himself. They don't really need Lucy, they obviously need a better marksman/assassin than Wyatt, and if they'd come up with this plan a lot earlier, Rufus would not have developed any particular feelings for, or loyalty to, any team and probably wouldn't have cared about said mission. Furthermore:

Quote

If they were so adverse to killing Flynn's mother, all they had to do is abduct her and bring her into the present. 

Exactly. Or - take out the father somehow. The pearl clutching over this plan drove me up a wall. It was the simplest and easiest solution to the problem at hand and - as pointed out above - would solve Lucy's problem, too. If Flynn is never born, then he never steals the time machine and they never have to follow him and Amy never gets wiped out. Two birds, one stone.

Quote

This show goes for shocking moments but fails on the follow-up and that's a major problem.

Agreed. I think that's why the ratings have steadily declined over the course of the season; viewers got frustrated with waiting for something to actually have an effect on the present. Nothing ever does.

Quote

If they don't have sex at the exact same time they did before, it won't be the same sperm and egg meeting. So unless Lucy knows exactly what time that happened (which, ew, how could she?), what she's asking for is utterly IMPOSSIBLE.

I think Lucy is banking on the theory that if she can "correct" the timeline by making sure her parents marry, the rest will follow as it did in the original timeline. If she could go back to 1937 and UNDO what she did, then history would also "correct" itself, theoretically, and as a result the damage she caused to the original timeline would be undone. But as it has been pointed out, she could also undo this damage by preventing Flynn from ever being born. It's the most logical solution

Quote

no Untouchables AND no Unsolved Mysteries!

Heh - Robert Stack wasn't the original host of Unsolved Mysteries so we'd probably still have that show, just with another host. No Untouchables TV series, though. 

[benteen]

Quote

Heh - Robert Stack wasn't the original host of Unsolved Mysteries so we'd probably still have that show, just with another host. No Untouchables TV series, though. 

Very true.  Still, no Robert Stack hosting Unsolved Mysteries! 

Agreed as well that there is no need to kill Flynn's mother.  Just make sure she doesn't meet Flynn's father.

[Mabel]

so basically, Conor Mason has developed AI on the scale of Person of Interest's Samaritan/the Machine? and now wants all NSA feeds? not a very original idea on the part of the writers.

[Sandman]

Who else figured Rufus was doomed as soon as he equated Team Eyeball (great name, btw!) with the Untouchables? All I could think was "Uh-oh! Hubris, man."

[tennisgurl]

What a waste of Elliot Ness and Mischa Collins! He had like two scenes! This show lives and dies by its awesome guest stars, and watching them kick ass as cool historical figures, don't mess that up! I did like seeing Jimmy Capone, and I think the guy playing Al Capone was solid, and their stuff was all really fun and interesting, but STILL! You do not get rid of Mischa Collins as Elliot Ness like that!

There was some solid stuff here (Jiva being awesome, some funny lines, the actors do a good job as always) but mostly its just the same old thing as ever. The only difference is Flynn actually got a win here, and his plan actually made sense for once. All our characters suck at time travel so hard. Our heroes usually manage to stop the main parts of Flynn's plans, but people always still end up getting killed, and changes still happen to the time stream. Its just crazy how many people get killed before their times in this, and how little effect it seems to have on anything. And I am SO SICK of Rittenhouse. I cant even describe how over this whole Flynn/Rittenhouse conflict is. All they have to do to get rid of Flynn is take his mom somewhere where she wont meet his dad. Simple. Will the time stream just rearrange so that they do meet and Flynn is born? Maybe, but its worth a try! Of course, if they found someone who had better aim than Wyatt anyway...

Also, I have to say, something else about this show is bugging me. Has anyone noticed that all the people the characters are trying to save in this show are women? We have Wyatt's perfect dead wife, Flynn's perfect dead wife AND daughter, and Amy (yeah Amy is being saved by her sister and not her love interest, but still) all being the perfect lost loved ones that are driving the actions of the main characters/villain, without ever having a personality of their own. Do we even know the names of Flynn's wife and daughter? We have never seen Jessica, and know nothing about her besides she was Wyatt's wife, and we only saw Amy in one episode. Meanwhile, the people that we see getting killed are all men (Flynn's mooks are all men, Anthony, several random bystanders and historical figures) and while those aren't considered nothing (except for mooks), no one really thinks about them after their episode is over, even the likable and sympathetic ones we got to know. On the other hand, the women who have died/been erased are never seen, but we are constantly reminded of them. Hell, even the commander lady is shown to be worried about her wife and daughter, the only person to be worried about family members disappearing. I'm sure the show isn't trying to say anything with this, but it comes off as the old "women are perfect victims we will mourn forever because they're delicate and perfect, but they don't need to do anything interesting or have personalities, while men can be killed all the time and no one will really care, but they actually get to be characters and do cool stuff" that media often falls into. Again, I'm not saying the show is trying to be sexist or anything, and its not killing the show for me, but it is annoying, and its starting to bother me.