S07.E08: Hearts Still Beating

[maczero]

I had this funny thought about the different groups working for Negan.  I'm sure he doesn't tell the different groups about each other so I'm imagining a scenario where Hilltop, ASZ and the Kingdom wind up inadvertently looting from each other to pay Negan's tax.

[JackONeill]

34 minutes ago, maczero said:

I had this funny thought about the different groups working for Negan.  I'm sure he doesn't tell the different groups about each other so I'm imagining a scenario where Hilltop, ASZ and the Kingdom wind up inadvertently looting from each other to pay Negan's tax.

It'd be kind of like Christmas fruitcake. ASZ gives it to the Kingdom, who gives it to the Hilltop, who gives it to Negan, who gives it to Carl to take to Rick. Then, we start all over again.

Now who said this isn't a madcap show?

Edited December 12, 2016 by JackONeill

[HollyG]

13 hours ago, MattDuffysCat said:

Negan: "I just bent over backwards to show you how reasonable I am..."

WE KNOW NEGAN. You freaking keeping bending backwards, it's hurting my back just watching you. I hate this show right now. I hate it so much. To think I used to so eagerly anticipate Sunday nights. 

ETA: Ok, not that eagerly. Since the next day is Monday. 

Thank you. I can't stand watching Negan.  I hate the way he speaks and the emphases he puts on certain words. And all that jerking around motion and him smiling through it has put me off so much that I FF through his scenes. All of it is nails on a chalk board to me. 

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Sorry about the double quote. I was a little confused about that whole thing. She took Michonne to Savior village (although in the distance it looked like a lot of walkers and not people) and Michonne saw what they were up against. I got the feeling Red didn't want to go back and she also knew that Michonne would kill her. So maybe in Red's mind she was helping Michonne out a bit. I guess? I'm still a tiny bit confused.

I just took like this: at first, it looks like Red is being a solid Negan soldier by saying nothing, but is probably evaluating her position, along with what Michonne is proposing. During the silence, Red decides she's tired of it all, and even hopes that someone takes out Negan. Hence the suggestion of the silencer, which would release Red from the shit-show she lives in without giving away Michonne and co. (via the gunshot noise) in the process. 

Edited December 12, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[Madding crowd]

47 minutes ago, BloatedGuppy said:

Maggie just had to show up and be semi-competent, because for reasons that have not been made clear, the current leader of Hilltop is a cowardly, degenerate skulker who may or may not have dementia. If the mayor of Hilltop had been a piece of wood with a face drawn on it things could scarcely have been more preposterous.

Gregory's not the only person in Hilltop though. Jesus is competent, they have a doctor and people organized enough to grow fruits and vegetables . I don't think it should be assumed Maggie knows more than the people already there.

[magemaud]

Did I miss something at the beginning? Did they show Spencer getting beat up by the Saviors when he was turning over the stuff he had collected for Negan or did that happen off-screen? 

[BloatedGuppy]

3 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Gregory's not the only person in Hilltop though. Jesus is competent, they have a doctor and people organized enough to grow fruits and vegetables . I don't think it should be assumed Maggie knows more than the people already there.

Yes but these people apparently elected GREGORY to be leader, remember.

If Maggie hadn't come along they probably would have handed leadership to an exciting looking dog, or an interestingly shaped cloud.

[TattleTeeny]

Spencer for accolades for bringing in the stuff. Aaron got a beat-down.

 

Quote

exciting looking dog

Ahahahhahaaaaaaaaaaa!

Edited December 12, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[Enigma X]

2 hours ago, JackONeill said:

A lot. (Not sure if she mentioned a specific number.)  I was struck by the fact that FINALLY someone has commented on the number of saviors. I know some people on the boards would like to have seen Rick and the gang kill Negan the last time he dropped by, but the reality is: He has a lot of people, and even if they were excited by Negan being killed, chances are they'd initially shoot back at Rick et al. Look at the contempt they showed Aaron last night.

I really wish that someone would call Hilltop out and ask why did they send CDB on the fool's errand to kill all the Saviors knowing that the population was the size of pre-Zombie Alexandria.

[maczero]

2 minutes ago, magemaud said:

Did I miss something at the beginning? Did they show Spencer getting beat up by the Saviors when he was turning over the stuff he had collected for Negan or did that happen off-screen? 

I'm guessing it's leftover gore from the armless zombie he tangled with when we last saw him.  Although, it begs the question why wouldn't he wipe his face afterwards.  I'm guessing he wanted to make it look like he was working hard.

1 minute ago, BloatedGuppy said:

Yes but these people apparently elected GREGORY to be leader, remember.

If Maggie hadn't come along they probably would have handed leadership to an exciting looking dog, or an interestingly shaped cloud.

Why does this seem so familiar?

[GodsBeloved]

9 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I really wish that someone would call Hilltop out and ask why did they send CDB on the fool's errand to kill all the Saviors knowing that the population was the size of pre-Zombie Alexandria.

How do we know they knew that?

[Enigma X]

6 minutes ago, GodsBeloved said:

How do we know they knew that?

I guess I am unclear on how they couldn't. They all seem to hang out in the woods among the Walkers whistling.

[paigow]

2 hours ago, diebartdie said:

Yeah I saw that too BUT I decided it was really yellow squash

damn thats a lot of squash

She must have cookie / cupcake recipes....

[diebartdie]

Hilltop very rarely saw a show of force, mostly they saw a few truck pull up, couple dozen dudes being assholes and maybe Negen himself once. Rick is the one who provoked Nagen into showing so much force because Negan recognized that Rick and Co are very serious bad asses but even then, there wasnt any reason to show ALL his cards either. Now something else about Negan's compound, only a portion of people there are actual fighters. Michonne was really pretty far away, she probably wouldnt realize, from that distance, that many of the "people" she was seeing were actually captured walkers. And then Negan has the slave class of people, the one's cleaning things, setting up walkers, cooking, whatever just basic peasants, not fighters, people who would most likely run and hide if shit started going down.

Negan has a boatload of fighter types for sure but Rick & Co + some other ASZers + bunch of kingdom fighters +a tiger + Carol + Lilith Faire that is more, way more and not EVERY Neganite is happy living in that shit hole.

[Ouisch]

8 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

15 minutes ago, GodsBeloved said:

How do we know they knew that?

I guess I am unclear on how they couldn't. They all seem to hang out in the woods among the Walkers whistling.

That's what I wonder. Aaron told CDB when he first found them that he and his compatriots had scoped the area around Alexandria 50 miles in every direction. That's why they needed additional personnel, supposedly - to help them search further and find more people. (Which would ultimately stretch their limited food resources that much quicker, but why split hairs.) During all those sojourns, he never found Hilltop nor the Kingdom. Then, when Rick and Company executed that complicated plan to lead the quarry walkers away some 20 miles, none of them encountered Saviors or Hilltop or.... etc. Now suddenly they're making the commute from ASZ to Hilltop in seemingly record time on a regular basis. On foot.

 

(How difficult would it have been, given the time lapse between the lemonade request and actual serving of same, for Olivia-in-charge-of-the-apothecary to, say, slip some Visine into the pitcher and quietly signal Carl not to drink the stuff? Negan would develop breathing difficulty and severely low blood pressure some time after lunch and once he collapsed no one would suspect he'd been poisoned.)

[rab01]

12 minutes ago, Ouisch said:

How difficult would it have been, given the time lapse between the lemonade request and actual serving of same, for Olivia-in-charge-of-the-apothecary to, say, slip some Visine into the pitcher and quietly signal Carl not to drink the stuff? Negan would develop breathing difficulty and severely low blood pressure some time after lunch and once he collapsed no one would suspect he'd been poisoned.

Thanks for bringing up visine. I had missed the stories about its use as a poison and your post led me into an interesting rabbit hole.  I don't think, however, that a bottle of visine in the lemonade pitcher would have taken care of Negan.  From a Wired article description of visine poisoning: 

"The Toxnet entry, based partly on cases of children who  swallowed a bottle of eyedrops or nosedrops left carelessly on a table or counter,  notes that “drowsiness and mild coma” often alternate with periods of thrashing and hyperactivity.  What does this tell us, aside from the obvious home precautionary warnings (don’t leave your eye drop bottles lying around the house and, by the way don’t drink them)?  The record tells us that tetrahydrozoline while poisonous is not a top-of-line-lethal substance. According to the safety sheet, acute oral toxicity in lab mice stands at an LD50 of 345 mg/kg. (LD50 stands for lethal dose 50 percent, meaning the amount of a toxic substance that will kill half of a test population). For comparison, the LD50 of potassium cyanide in mice is 5 mg/kg. And that difference means that while people do end up the hospital, they tend to survive the stay. This is good news for victims and also for perpetrators, as so many of them end up arrested thanks in part to the very characteristic symptoms of eye drop poisoning."

 

A Negan who survives the drink while alternating between drowsiness and hyperactivity doesn't sound like a great outcome ... 

[Anela]

What was that scene, after the credits?? My DVR cut it off, every time (it records every episode).  It looked like Gabriel, in the dark, at the fence. 

[JackONeill]

It's not that uncommon. Fear leads to caution. Few of us are heroes. We have doubts. If any of us were in the position as Olivia and we had a bottle that was clearly marked poison, would we take the chance of pouring it into the lemonade? I don't think so.

[HollyG]

9 minutes ago, Anela said:

What was that scene, after the credits?? My DVR cut it off, every time (it records every episode).  It looked like Gabriel, in the dark, at the fence. 

I want to know too. It looked like the houses of Alexandria but it was too dark and too quick to really tell.

[nodorothyparker]

I didn't hate the episode, which tells you a lot about how low the bar has been set this season.  Who would have thunk that including all of our regular cast and not breaking them off in ones or twos with entire towns of new people would have made this almost watchable again?

I get why people are frustrated with her, but I was happy to see Carol for only the second time this entire half season and got a kick out of the idea of someone plunking themselves down and deciding to just opt out of the apocalypse.  "Nope.  Not any more.  No more murdering sprees, no more cannibal cults or random assholes with sporting goods or tanks, no more baking with the assorted crap we used to donate to the food pantry.  I'll be over here with my book and nice pictures of flowers.  You can go now."  Hey, if I could get random nice guys to show up at my door and bring me groceries without lifting a finger, I probably would too.  

The most interesting thing to learn in this episode is something we didn't see, but were told.  Ezekiel and the Kingdom apparently got to skip over the baseball bat to the head treatment.  Every other group we've met has been subject to some pretty horrific abuse but it sounds like so far the Saviors haven't been much more than a pesky inconvenience to them.  It makes me wonder what the difference was and what's got Richard itching to pull a Rick and go off guns a blazing when he doesn't seem to know any more about them than our original gang did.  Does the Kingdom even have guns?  It's been so long since we've seen them that I can't remember much beyond that they looked liked they'd raided a Sports Authority.  If they don't, what exactly is Richard thinking is going to happen?   I can't really even blame Carol or Morgan for taking a pass on that.  The last they knew Rick and the gang had gone on a mostly unprovoked murdering spree and were hunkering down for some kind of retaliation.  For all they know, they killed the team coming to do that.  They have no idea yet about Abraham or Glenn or any of the other terrible things Negan and the Asshole Gang have done.

As happy as I was to see the ending of the band getting back together and hugging it out, the excessive nodding and cheesy '80s synth was a bit much.  It's great that they're finally all on the same page about it, but now what?  They're still two small groups with a fair number of noncombatants and no weapons.  They're still going to be getting periodic pillaging visits from these assholes.  And in the Hilltop's case, the number of ASZers they're expected to hide just keeps growing with Daryl's arrival and probably much to Gregory's dismay since it's probably not wise for Daryl to be seen in Alexandria again either.

I loved loved loved Rick's serious "WTH, boy?" staredown of Carl after he heard about his big adventure.  I would have loved to see at least a line or two followup to that, just as I would have liked one in acknowledgment of what Rosita had cost them.  A line from Maggie about not blaming Daryl for Glenn, or even if she does, also would have been nice.

I honestly couldn't tell what Michonne and random Savior woman were looking at waaay off in the distance.  Without TTD and the boards here, I probably still wouldn't know just like I still wouldn't have realized Michonne killed her.  

Here's the problem for me, show:  The last 20 minutes or so with the pool game of death and all the drama in the street, I finally did start to see what you're going for with Negan and there were moments there where he almost worked for me.  I kind of enjoyed that he immediately had Spencer's number and showed a certain understanding of Rick, and yes, his line about the two of them not braiding each other's hair or sharing their deepest darkest secrets made me a chuckle a bit despite myself.  He showed a terrible but plausible logic and consistency to killing Olivia for what Rosita did.  But then he does something randomly idiotic again like anthropomorphize that stupid bat some more or set a place for it at the table and I just can't.  He reverts back to the endlessly tiresome cartoon character.  Less is definitely more in his case.

Edited December 13, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[diebartdie]

The thing about killing Olivia that it seems like maybe people are not understanding for some reason is her murder was completely random. Negan told 90's hair dye girl to "kill someone", she turned and shot, didnt even look where she was shooting really. Now yeah, Negan told her to do that because of what Rosita did but still, completely random who got shot. Was a matter of 6 inches made the difference between Coral and Olivia dying (and I think Coral being the one to take the bullet would have really pissed Negan off).

[Ohwell]

Oh I think people understood that Olivia's murder was random.  We saw how she whirled around and just fired the shot.  However, it's just sad that it was Olivia who was randomly killed.  I wish 90's hair dye girl had shot Rosita instead.

[Dobian]

2 hours ago, BloatedGuppy said:

Yes but these people apparently elected GREGORY to be leader, remember.

If Maggie hadn't come along they probably would have handed leadership to an exciting looking dog, or an interestingly shaped cloud.

I guess they forgot to look up the local registered sex offenders list when they elected him, haha.

[millennium]

I see Negan's abuse of Rick & Co. as a metaphor for how this show treats its audience.

Hey, audience!  I think y'all owe me a thank you.   I could have served up another mind-numbing, wheel-spinning bottle episode.  Instead I gave you two character deaths, a cliched tug on the ol' heartstrings at the end, and I made you spaghetti.   Oh sure, it's been a tedious season.   I feel ya!   But Daryl's free, so shut up and hold your breath for another eight weeks.

[Gobi]

2 hours ago, Ouisch said:

That's what I wonder. Aaron told CDB when he first found them that he and his compatriots had scoped the area around Alexandria 50 miles in every direction. That's why they needed additional personnel, supposedly - to help them search further and find more people. (Which would ultimately stretch their limited food resources that much quicker, but why split hairs.) During all those sojourns, he never found Hilltop nor the Kingdom. Then, when Rick and Company executed that complicated plan to lead the quarry walkers away some 20 miles, none of them encountered Saviors or Hilltop or.... etc. Now suddenly they're making the commute from ASZ to Hilltop in seemingly record time on a regular basis. On foot.

Best I can come up with is that he was looking for stragglers, and avoided established groups such as the Kingdom and the Saviors (wasn't that a Charlton Heston movie?). Even so, he should have been aware of those groups.

I think we'll find out that Richard's family was captured and/or killed by the Saviors.

They really need the seashore survivors if they plan to take on Negan - they're the only ones with guns.

Does the Kingdom have guns? Maybe, if Negan has never gone inside. The only one there that I can remember packing iron, though, is Morgan (blessed are the cheesemakers).

I mean, it's nice that Rick has his pistol back (he should name it "Lucy" or, better yet, "Little Ricky") and Richard has his Molotov cocktail factory, but they're going to need more than that.

Am I mistaken, or was the name of the first boat Rick and Aaron used named "The Plot"?

Anyone else think that Flat Joey looked a lot like Sam from Game of Thrones? Is it the same actor? I know TWD is fond of  casting Brits.

I, too, missed that Michonne killed Red. Pretty cold, if she did.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Gobi
Content

[nodorothyparker]

Quote

Am I mistaken, or was the name of the first boat Rick and Aaron used named "The Plot"?

As in The Plot is full of holes?

[millennium]

5 minutes ago, Gobi said:

 

Am I mistaken, or was the name of the first boat Rick and Aaron used named "The Plot"?

Heh.

[Gobi]

3 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

As in The Plot is full of holes?

Exactly.

[festivus]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

I get why people are frustrated with her, but I was happy to see Carol for only the second time this entire half season and got a kick out of the idea of someone plunking themselves down and deciding to just opt out of the apocalypse.  "Nope.  Not any more.  No more murdering sprees, no more cannibal cults or random assholes with sporting goods or tanks, no more baking with the random crap we used to donate to the food pantry.  I'll be over here with my book and nice pictures of flowers.  You can go now."  Hey, if I could get random nice guys to show up at my door and bring me groceries without lifting a finger, I probably would too.  

I love this. Opting out of the apocalypse. I would totally do that.

[meep.meep]

2 hours ago, Ouisch said:

That's what I wonder. Aaron told CDB when he first found them that he and his compatriots had scoped the area around Alexandria 50 miles in every direction. That's why they needed additional personnel, supposedly - to help them search further and find more people. (Which would ultimately stretch their limited food resources that much quicker, but why split hairs.) During all those sojourns, he never found Hilltop nor the Kingdom. Then, when Rick and Company executed that complicated plan to lead the quarry walkers away some 20 miles, none of them encountered Saviors or Hilltop or.... etc. Now suddenly they're making the commute from ASZ to Hilltop in seemingly record time on a regular basis. On foot.

I'll take TV Geography for $200!    It's incomprehensible.

It looks like Father Gregory is stuck with all the crap jobs - counseling the bereaved and insane during the day, standing guard at night, and babysitting on top of that.  And he has to wear black clothes all the time in the heat.  I bet Seth Gilliom is kicking himself for complaining about having to sit in the car on The Wire.

Who makes spaghetti and biscuits?  And drinks lemonade with it?  If we needed more proof that Negan was evil, there it is.

[millennium]

6 minutes ago, festivus said:

I love this. Opting out of the apocalypse. I would totally do that.

Except you can't, because it always comes looking for you.   It's like Duncan MacLeod trying to opt out of The Game; sooner or later comes a guy with a sword.

I don't know what makes Carol think the Saviors will respect her desire to be alone.   Her ignorance on that score seems self-destructive.   She can't even get people who like her to stay away.   

[HollyG]

2 hours ago, Anela said:

What was that scene, after the credits?? My DVR cut it off, every time (it records every episode).  It looked like Gabriel, in the dark, at the fence. 

Just by luck I happened to record Comic Book Men which comes on after Walking/Talking Dead. This scene was attached to the very beginning of it. You see a far away view... and then an up close view of Father Gab up in the lookout perch above the fence. The next cut is someone looking through binoculars at the ASZ. All you see next is that person's boots walking away. My guess it that it's the same boots that were spying on Rick & Aaron at the zombie lake. 

Edited December 12, 2016 by HollyG

[magemaud]

3 hours ago, maczero said:

3 hours ago, magemaud said:

Did I miss something at the beginning? Did they show Spencer getting beat up by the Saviors when he was turning over the stuff he had collected for Negan or did that happen off-screen? 

I'm guessing it's leftover gore from the armless zombie he tangled with when we last saw him.  Although, it begs the question why wouldn't he wipe his face afterwards.  I'm guessing he wanted to make it look like he was working hard.

Thanks, that makes sense (in an often senseless ZA world) and his leaving the blood on his face to impress the Saviors would explain the comment about how he must have worked hard to get the loot. 

Now, another question--at the end, when Rick is ticking off the list of groups that could band together to defeat Negan, he includes The Kingdom. How does he know about the Kingdom? 

[stacyasp]

4 minutes ago, HollyG said:

Just by luck I happened to record Comic Book Men which comes on after Walking/Talking Dead. This scene was attached to the very beginning of it. You see far away... and then up close view of Father Gab up in the lookout booth above the fence. The next cut is someone looking through binoculars at the ASZ. All you see next is that person's boots. My guess it that it's the same boots that were spying on Rick & Aaron at the zombie lake. 

Maybe its the mysterious blond haired person that disappeared behind the tarp  near the walkers on the bridge where Heath and Tara were

Edited December 12, 2016 by stacyasp

[jackjill89]

I like JDM with the beard, but I thought he actually looked younger without it. 

I really don't like how Negan's henchmen are such bullies. Not so much his "right hand men" but the ones just beneath them. They are always picking fights or beating people up. It really is a caste system at the Sanctuary. I do wonder how he found so many bullies to be in his enforcer section. 

[nodorothyparker]

21 minutes ago, millennium said:

Except you can't, because it always comes looking for you.   It's like Duncan MacLeod trying to opt out of The Game; sooner or later comes a guy with a sword.

I don't know what makes Carol think the Saviors will respect her desire to be alone.   Her ignorance on that score seems self-destructive.   She can't even get people who like her to stay away.   

The Saviors don't really strike me as people interested in doing much actual scavenging themselves, like in lone houses.  Aside from the ridiculous amount of furniture moving they do just to be assholes, there seems to a fair bit of laziness to their entire setup where they prefer plundering established communities of the products of their labor and stuff they've had to work to scavenge.  And even if they did come around, I don't think she cares very much right now.   When you don't particularly care what happens to you, it is pretty easy to just opt out for awhile.

I have no doubt she'll opt back in when the script calls for it.

[Happy Harpy]

I was thinking of payoff for the suckage (YMMV) named Negan and I will forgive and forget if it's Judith who takes him down. With a spoon. And points and laughs.

[Muffyn]

1 hour ago, meep.meep said:

Who makes spaghetti and biscuits?  And drinks lemonade with it?  If we needed more proof that Negan was evil, there it is.

Might I add one more thing to this list?  He also misidentified the biscuits as rolls.  Rolls!  He is evil to his very core.  He is in the south.  He should damn well know a biscuit when he sees one. 

Then again, I was seriously hoping he would choke to death on a biscuit.  I assume he talks with his mouth full since he is incapable of shutting up. 

Best episode in a long time - still a colander plot.  I enjoyed the Rick/Daryl hug upon seeing each other, but the dragged out scene of people toothlessly smiling at each other was stomach churning.  Did Negan use all of the words so there are none left for our hapless crew? 

Edited December 13, 2016 by Muffyn

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

On The Walking Dead, It's Time To Rise Up!

...but not until February, actually (womp womp).

[mightysparrow]

8 hours ago, Enero said:

This is the first episode I've watched this season. 

I thought people were exaggerating when they said this show had gone bad. I'm sad to say that they were being generous. This had to be the worst episode I have ever watched of TWD.  Just absolutely horrid. How has this show fallen so far? Even the characters who are usually mesmerizing seemed to be muted and thus boring in their individual storylines. Darryl's escape and Rick and Aaron trapped with a bunch of walkers on the water should've been thrilling ala Rick being stuck under the bed in 4x12 (?) and the battle for Alexandria mid season last year, but both moments fell flat. 

I like JDM, but he is horrible here. Negan's goons are a bunch of sadistic assholes. I agree with Darryl, none of them are "just trying to get by" by staying with Negan, they are agreeing with and taking part in his insanity. 

Spencer is punk and deserved the gutting he received. 

Rosita got balls, I'll give her that.  Again, JDM is horrible here. His temper tantrum after Rosita failed to kill him was just awful. Terrible acting. 

Rick and Michonne's scene at the end was the best thing about this episode. Danai and Andy brought it in spades. Excellent dialogue, acting and chemistry. I love their relationship. They don't always agree, but they work through their issues. Always have, even before they became a couple.  I will say I also enjoyed the end scene with the main gang being back together. It was good to see that. 

The less I say about Carol and Morgan the better. Not really here for their ongoing nonsense.

Your perspective is very interesting.

People who have stuck with the show (I'm barely hanging on by my fingernails) liked this episode, for the most part.  We've been living on a diet of crap for so long, an episode like this seems like lobster.  In hindsight, I realize that this episode would never have passed muster in season 4 or even season 5 (which I hated).

[ganesh]

Figures. Negan can't even shave right. What grown man uses a bib?

Quote

People who have stuck with the show (I'm barely hanging on by my fingernails) liked this episode, for the most part.  We've been living on a diet of crap for so long, an episode like this seems like lobster.

At least stuff is going on. I don't mind a slow moving show, but even then, something has to be moving along. Really, all the Negan stuff is repetitive filler. They could have had him in this episode, and then the last when Carl showed up. I really didn't learn anything new in the other episodes. 

The other thing that bothers me is that no one thinks strategically, at all. Resources are going to run out. You can't just keep giving Negan things and think it's going to roll on. I mean, *Enid* is saying you're all idiots for going off half cocked left and right and not planning better. 

At least when there was a whole season sitting around the farm, we got an alternative pov from Hershel, the buildup with Shane, etc. 

Edited December 13, 2016 by ganesh

[ByTor]

20 hours ago, ikmccall said:

Maybe it's Heath in the woods observing the goings on? And hopefully, Maggie kills Negan.

At this point, I don't care if it's Maggie, or Rick, or the ghost of Olivia, or the Tooth Fairy, I just want someone, anyone, to kill him.  I'm still trying to pry my eyes downward from rolling them so hard when Negan put that stupid damn idiotic bat on a dining chair, with the declaration that "she's hungry."  What the hell does that even mean???

[RedheadZombie]

I loved this episode, absolutely loved it!  Not despite Negan, but in part because of Negan.  The show has always been good at episodes with quickly climbing tension, and bringing all the characters together.  In this episode they proved how multiple sites with multiple communities can be done, and pleases more of the audience because we are guaranteed to see our favorites.  I just loved it from start to finish, with not one false move, IMO.

I didn't know quite how much I liked Aaron, until I thought he was a goner.  I'm not sure I would be so fond of him if I had more of the A-team helping Rick, but they've killed them off, separated them, and sent one off to find herself.  But the gang is almost completely together.  All that's missing is Carol and Morgan.  And I'm loving Richard.  Don't get his back story, but the hints are interesting.  He's a great addition to the cast, and a strong actor.

I could not be more proud of Maggie.  With Glenn's death, she has now lost every family member.  She had to watch Glenn's slaughter.   Yet she hasn't completely shut down or had a crazy episode, like Rick often has.  She didn't beat someone to death with a lead pipe out of misplaced rage - someone who represented no danger, and was saying go ahead and escape.  She's not isolating herself or going off on solo monosyllabic journeys.  She's found a purpose in her baby, her living friends, and this new community.  She's stepping up as a leader, looking out for people she has little connection to, and she's even worrying about the Hilltop children, and enriching their lives.  I loved the woman who called into TD, and said she was naming her newborn after Maggie, because of her strength and love.  The women on this show are kicking ass and taking down names.  They need Carol, and they will be complete.  The guys can help out if they want to.  BTW, it would seem that Maggie doesn't even hold a grudge against Daryl.  Norman was very endearing on TD, about worrying that Maggie won't forgive him.  He seemed genuinely worried, and always refers to the character as "I', not Daryl. 

I know everyone hates Negan, but I do not.  I thought JDM was excellent tonight.  He so fluidly moved from affable to sinister.  And why others here don't think he's dangerous and terrifying, I don't quite get.  He's much scarier than the Governor.  The whole pool table scene was tense, up there with the bar scene in season two.  And I kept thinking - how are they able to do this while getting good pool shots in?  I especially love his interactions with Rick.  And Negan knows Rick is obeying through gritted teeth.  He knows Rick isn't broken.  And he seems to respect that.  I actually think he killed Spencer to protect Rick.  It's so weird.

I don't mind Carol's and Morgan's continued reluctance.  It's staying true to the storylines from last season, and they will obviously feel compelled to join in the fight.  I love that Carol has these men caring about her and worrying that she has enough.  People are just drawn to her.

The only thing I had the slightest issue with - the townspeople gathering so close during the pool scene.  Olivia - so afraid for Negan, and supposedly guarding Judith - out on the front porch?  Not buying it.  She would be peeking through the curtains, safely in the house - like any sensible person.  I get Rosita, because she's had an attitude the whole time.  But so many of the neighborhood folks - nope.  It's well known that when Negan is pissed, he takes it out on an innocent bystander.  No way in hell would most of those people be so close.  They acted like nosey people trying to listen to the conversation.

I did hope that Negan would be pissed when Cruelle de Ville came so close to shooting Carl.  I was hoping he was going to take her out.  They need to give some of Negan's people even a hint of substance.  The governor had Martinez.  Someone with at least a tiny shade of gray.  It would help to hire superior actors.  The guys beating up Aaron were almost laughably bad.

Daryl did his little boy duck of the head, and crying on Rick's shoulder.  It just about killed me.  It reminded me of how he ran to Carol like she was his mama after Terminus.  He's really a submissive little boy at heart, and craves nurturing and comfort.  For those who don't watch TD, Andy said that he and Norman kept crying during that scene.  Ahhhh.

[ganesh]

I can get Spencer's point. But he's talking years? Come on. I get that he's pissed at Rick, but ASZ basically had their heads in the sand from what I watched. 

I mainly watch the show for the discussion here because everyone is as incredulous as I am as to the logical hoops to leap through to buy into the show. I just don't get with the ratings dropping this fast how Negan is sustainable for the show beyond this season. 

I cannot believe Rosita completely missed. Not even in the gut or arm? That's patently ridiculous. 

It's never enough with Negan though is it? He's always going to demand more. 

What is it with the fat jokes all the time?

Edited December 13, 2016 by ganesh

[Pixel]

8 hours ago, BonnieD said:

This should probably go in the Nitpicks thread but... did anyone else glimpse BANANAS! in the pile of fruit Carol was hoarding (how could one person possibly eat all the fresh fruit she had before it started to rot?). Bananas. In North America. A good two  years after the apocalypse. Who's going down to tropical places and hauling back bananas? Also, it only has been three years at most since this all began, right? Cause Lori pregnant for 9 months + Judith looking approximately two-years-old= 3 years. Yet somehow Carl managed to grow to his teen years.

Heck there are so many bigger gaps in logic, I shouldn't fret about the details that bug me every week, such as, if you've ever run a generator to keep your house going, you'll know how loud they are and that you have to pick and choose what lights and appliances are truly necessary to run. But that's getting way off topic. At least this week there is finally forward progress in the plot. I've rarely watched a show more slow-paced than TWD. 

We had bananas growing in Typhoon Lagoon at Disney when I worked there. It's  not out of the realm of possibility that in a warm, humid climate like Georgia they could have found an actual banana tree. 

[maczero]

1 minute ago, Pixel said:

We had bananas growing in Typhoon Lagoon at Disney when I worked there. It's  not out of the realm of possibility that in a warm, humid climate like Georgia they could have found an actual banana tree. 

They're in Virginia.

[ganesh]

I just fundamentally disagree with the narrative direction of the show in this part of the season. I get that they wanted to end with everyone gearing up for a big fight, and that's fine, but I think they should have been trying more surgical approaches over these 8 episodes. Find the location of the camp, figure out how many people, sabotage some trucks far enough away to not have it come back on you, etc. 

[maystone]

Re: the Saviors and The Kingdom - I wonder if they actually did have a run-in with each other back in the early days. That story the young guy was telling Morgan about how his father and some others were killed clearing out a house and how Ezekiel took steps to assure that it wouldn't happen again? I remember thinking at the time that it sounded like a cover-up by King Zeke. Now add in Richard becoming nearly frantic to have Carol and Morgan help him prepare The Kingdom to deal with Negan's crew, and I'm thinking that he has more personal knowledge of how they work than just his gut feeling.

[AngelaHunter]

5 hours ago, JackONeill said:

Few of us are heroes. We have doubts. If any of us were in the position as Olivia and we had a bottle that was clearly marked poison, would we take the chance of pouring it into the lemonade? I don't think so.

That's what I've said. Not giving him enough might not kill him, just make him really mad. Or he might not drink it all, or he might have forced Carl to drink it.

I didn't have the fortitude to watch this last night. Just watched now so I'm sure whatever I say is repetition. Nice going, Rosita, on your little one-woman vendetta rampage that got poor Olivia to assume room temperature and got my now-favorite Eugene hauled away. He's not Daryl and will never survive abuse.

Speaking of Daryl, I think I see why the hair is always over his eyes. Must be trying to hide those rather prominent bags he's sporting. Hopefully, they're just temporary from the lack of sleep he's endured. I felt bad for poor Aaron, getting the holy hell beaten out of him.

What I really like best was when Rick and Aaron were cruising around Lake Zombie, with a paddle that said "ASSHOLES." That was rad.

Edited December 13, 2016 by AngelaHunter

[diebartdie]

7 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Speaking of Daryl, I think I see why the hair is always over his eyes. Must be trying to hide those rather prominent bags he's sporting. Hopefully, they're just temporary

OK a couple seasons ago I kind of went on a slight rant about Daryl and how ugly I think he is, especially his right eye, always with that giant welt under it. Well a very helpful forumite pointed out to me several years ago Norman Reedus was in a motorcycle accident and he has a metal plate there in his cheeck, hence the "welt" BUT it's pretty obvious a lot of the time the makeup people deliberately play that welt up in order to make him look even more pitiful and grungy.