Joy and Austin: This One Time At Family Camp

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, awaken said:

Oh, I am so sorry for joy. What sad news. And probably even harder to bear with all the pregnant family members. I hope she gets lots of true loving support throughout this difficult time, and after. 

I'm pretty sure she won't. 

I truly believe the Duggars have ZERO idea of how to actually support other people -- and zero impulse to do so. Their parents have no empathy for anyone -- and they've deliberately adopted a cult that preaches the glories of no empathy. They don't give a shit about their children and they raised the kids to be nothing but rivals and snitches for each other, if you ask me.

Living in a house of spies doesn't foster bonding. And i think we see that lack of empathy constantly among the Duggarlings. Their God is an angry, jealous spiteful God and they enjoy being just like him, as far as I can see. 

Pushing elderly ill Dad around in the wheel chair and clearly not giving a tiddly-toe crap when little Jackson got lost in the airport exemplify the humane standards that rule the Duggars, as far as I can see. 

And that's only been worsened by the fact that, now, all the siblings and siblings-in-law have spent years learning and practicing the art of drawing attention to themselves on TeeVee and now social media. And recently they've been doing that with increasing desperation. Thanks to their parents, their cult and their media and social-media exposure, it's a big shark tank they live in,  in my opinion. 

Poor Joy. 

Edited July 4, 2019 by Churchhoney

[truebluesmoky]

My sister lost a pregnancy around 18 weeks. She was having a healthy pregnancy and receiving proper prenatal care. She had been to a regular prenatal appointment two weeks prior and wasn’t due for another one until her 20 week anatomy scan. She only found out earlier because someone had given her a home fetal heart monitor as a gift, and she went from being able to find the heartbeat to not being able to find it. She truly thought she was being paranoid when she made the appointment to have her OB check for the heartbeat, because she figured it was just an issue of the home monitor not being a real, professional medical device. Instead, her ultrasound at the OB revealed than the fetus had died in utero. She had to be induced and go through labor before delivering her deceased baby. It was absolutely brutal, as this was a much wanted pregnancy. I feel horrible for Joy, having seen this situation in real life. It’s gut wrenching, because you can’t just get the news and start to grieve. You still have to go through the pain of delivery.

In my opinion, this is not a time to search for reasons why it might have been Joy’s fault. Chances are, it was random. These things happen.

In addition to Lauren’s insensitive babbling, if the family has known for a week, I can’t help but be irritated by Jinger and Jeremy’s self absorbed posts during that time. It’s one thing for Jessa to still post a photo of her newborn, but Jinger and Jeremy have constantly posted glamorous, gratuitous “L.A. lifestyle” photos, as well as 1847373 random pictures of Felicity. It seems insensitive during their sister’s extremely tragic and painful loss. This is the type of loss I would expect Jinger to even fly back for, but at the very least, she could take a hiatus from hat pictures.

Edited July 5, 2019 by truebluesmoky

[BitterApple]

Lauren is an absolutely horrid person. 

[doodlebug]

8 hours ago, Zella said:

Is this something that would have been caught sooner ordinarily or is usually found at about this stage? (I don't mean that to sound accusatory. Am just genuinely curious.)

No way to know.  We know how far along Joy was, but not how big the baby was.  Even if she was getting regular prenatal care; she was probably only being seen once a month and she was just at the point where the baby's kicks can be felt so Joy wouldn't have realized that the kiddo wasn't moving.  With standard prenatal care, it is not impossible that a baby could die several weeks before being discovered at this point in pregnancy.  

As far as NIPT, free fetal DNA testing is actually fairly reasonably priced, under $500.  However, why would Joy want to do this?  First, as pointed out earlier, she isn't over 35, there's no specific genetic problem in the family.  Secondly, even if Joy had NIPT and knew that her baby had Down Syndrome or another genetic anomaly; I feel pretty certain that having an abortion would never be an option with her.  She would've simply continued the pregnancy and prayed for her baby.  And the baby still would've died.  Most conceptions with Trisomy 21, the most common genetic problem do not result in a live birth.  About 90% of conceptions with Down Syndrome result in miscarriage or stillbirth.

While I have been pretty clear about my feelings concerning the quality of prenatal care that the Duggars get, I see absolutely nothing here that was preventable.  Unless we receive information that something extraordinary happened that could've been detected and treated, I cannot blame Joy's probably less than stellar prenatal care.

[Turquoise]

How awful for Joy & Austin. Annabell Elise is a lovely name. I feel for them having to watch all the baby girls arrive this fall. Lauren better not deliver any where near Annabell's due date...she'd be obtuse enough to point it out.

[Annb67]

My heart breaks for Joy and Austin. Lauren, congratulations, I despise you as much as I do Josh. You are a self-absorbed little bitch. It's not all about you and your heavy period. Just go away.

[madpsych78]

Poor Joy.

Although there's no way to prove this, I actually had a theory that perhaps there was something genetic, and what ultimately affected Annabell had also affected Jubilee, given that they were lost about the same time in the pregnancy. Again, there's no way to know. 

I've never been pregnant either, but I would think that a miscarriage after about six weeks or so is very different from a stillbirth. Joy was far enough along that they determined it was a girl, whereas we don't really know that Lauren was having a boy with the previous pregnancy. 

[Madtown]

2 hours ago, NotthebadVictoria said:

Nope, she’s going to post about fully understanding that loss........ 🤬🤬🤬🤬

This! I can see her telling Joy that she knows exactly what she is going through. She is an insufferable bitch. The "best buds" comment is completely out of bounds. It goes to show how immature and self absorbed Lauren is.

I feel completely saddened for Joy(and Austin too). I would hope she would get wonderful support from her sisters and family, but seeing what I've read, I doubt that will happen. Hopefully Austin will fully be there for her. Truly heartbreaking.

[mythoughtis]

I’m not  minimizing this tragedy with my next comment.  Really, I’m not: 

This family was trained to smile for the camera from a young age/

including a group photo at Josie’s ICU bassinet, Jason’s critical fall thru the stage trap door, their grandparents health issues, drowning etc.  They were filmed doing ordinary or stupid stuff the week after these things.  They were filmed holding a very tacky funeral for Jubilee, complete with a shellcase for a casket. They really have never been taught Its ok to grieve.. Plus the rest of us don’t really get to either. ‘Hey, boss, I need two weeks paid leave because my sister had a miscarriage, and no I don’t have any vacation coming.’ 

ETA: some of the  family’s silly posting this week might have been to provide ‘cover’ for Joy and Austin. If you are distracted by Jinger, maybe you don’t notice what’s going on ‘behind door number 2’. 

Edited July 4, 2019 by mythoughtis

[QuinnInND]

I'm heartbroken for Joy and Austin. I've been where she is. Although further along. It's unbearable pain. Mr Quinn and I got to hold our daughter for hours to say goodbye. I hope Joy and Austin got to do the same things.  I grieve with them. 

And Lauren. Stfu you insufferable overbearing bitch. It's not about you. Believe it or not. 

[JoanArc]

I feel horrible for Joy. This is a shit situation for anyone. I'm more saddened it likely wont be the last. I hope she has good support from Austin and makes a good emotional recovery.

With the number of marriages and pregnancies in these families, which is only gong to continue to increase, pretty soon miscarriage announcements are going to rival lame birthday wishes, pregnancy announcements, and pathetic anniversary pictures. All anyone seems to get is congrats that everyone's miscarriages are playing soccer up in heaven, or Michelle reminiscing about her blessed miscarriage. Zero emotional support.

I. just. want. the. breeding. to. stop.

Edited July 4, 2019 by JoanArc

[irisheyes]

OMG, Lauren, shut it. I mean, it get that she’s like 19, and most of us were pretty self-centered at that age, plus, her cult infantilizes kids, but your mama needs to tell you to hush right now. Your heavy period, while heartbreaking , is far different than Joy and Austin’s loss. I’m assuming that she was far enough along that they got to hold an baby in their arms (albeit tiny and not fully formed).  Poor Joy.  These next few months are going to be very tough. Thankfully, she has Gideon to keep her busy, and it looks like Austin has really grown to be a good husband. She’s gonna need a lot of support from his family, cause she’s certainly not getting it from hers. 

[Oldernowiser]

FWIW, Reverend Fancypants’ post isn’t a huge step up. “Here’s how your tragedy affected ME.”

He’s a little less tone deaf but he’s also what, ten years older than Lauren?

[Christina87]

I just saw this on Instagram, and couldn't believe it! I also agree it's not Joy's fault. Many women on my 600 pound life successfully deliver babies, and they are obviously waaaay less healthy than joy! Btw, Jill is getting ROASTED on Instagram for using emojis and hashtags, and being insensitive. Jessa is not, because her post was more understated. Poor Jill. She just doesn't get it!

[Totally]

11 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Funny you mention that, considering this happened a week ago. It seems a bit tacky for Jessa to be posting Ivy pictures and Jinger to shill for Cameo on Instagram after their sister suffered such an awful tragedy. I wouldn't expect any of the family to comment before Joy said her piece, but it's odd that they're carrying on like it's business as usual. What a weird family. 

I was thinking exactly the same thing. It seems insensitive 

[mom2two]

I just hope that they dont blame this as something sinful that Joy or Austin did, just like they blamed Anna when her scumbag husband cheated.   I had a friend lose a baby at 18 weeks, and it is very hard and emotional. 

[lucy711]

I feel awful for Joy.  Pregnancy loss at any stage is terrible, but you definitely let your guard down by the 5th month if everything has been going well.  Plus, she seemed to have a healthy first pregnancy, so it must have been very shocking to her.

I hope that she takes time to heal and doesn't try to rush another pregnancy.  She needs time to process this loss.  She also needs to keep far, far away from Lauren.

[irisheyes]

Seeing how her siblings have “comforted” her, Joy and Austin need to pack up the RV and head out on a month long road trip. Go see the USA and leave your loser family behind. 

[Oldernowiser]

I am in no way a Jessa fan but her post is exactly right.

Maybe Bin wrote it.

[MichaelaRae]

Poor Joy and Austin. That's just so awful. Can't imagine their grief. I fear that probably the ultrasound was being filmed because who else takes that photo? (I can't imagine it being something you ASKED to have done in the spur of the moment by someone there with a camera phone but...hell, I don't get most of this curated Instagram life thing that is so much of the world today, so maybe you do now?)

I think Lauren may have deleted her comment - I can't seem to find it while I can still see the comments from other friends and family. Would have loved to have read the comments on that one. What a dramatic little viper.

[heckkitty]

Remember when Lauren miscarried had a late period and all Jessa seemed able to do was talk about how they’d have had the same due date? Some of these people deserve each other 

[tabloidlover]

Ya, she had to have deleted it. I was unable to find it also.  

[BitterApple]

Just now, heckkitty said:

Remember when Lauren miscarried had a late period and all Jessa seemed able to do was talk about how they’d have had the same due date? Some of these people deserve each other 

Yes, complete with sideways bump pictures. For as much as Michelle claims her children are "best friends" there's an awfully strong undercurrent of spite in terms of how they interact.

[Oldernowiser]

19 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

For as much as Michelle claims her children are "best friends" there's an awfully strong undercurrent of spite in terms of how they interact.

Siblings in a lot of families are competitive, even solid families with devoted, emotionally healthy parents.

Given Michelle’s narcissism, the stream of replacement siblings every year, the harsh religious rules forbidding any kind of authentic emotion, the presence of television cameras, and the early days of not enough food or clothing, honestly it’s a wonder the Duggar kids didn’t split into coalitions and kill each other.

So it’s not a surprise that some bitchy side-eye gets out there.

Back to thread topic...Austin has grown on me. He actually works, he’s rebelled in the past, and he seems to love his wife and child. That photo of them together touches even my cold cynical heart. I’m glad they have each other.

[Trillium]

29 minutes ago, MichaelaRae said:

Poor Joy and Austin. That's just so awful. Can't imagine their grief. I fear that probably the ultrasound was being filmed because who else takes that photo? (I can't imagine it being something you ASKED to have done in the spur of the moment by someone there with a camera phone but...hell, I don't get most of this curated Instagram life thing that is so much of the world today, so maybe you do now?)

There’s a non profit called Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep where they have volunteer photographers come to take photos when there is a stillbirth or when they know they baby will not survive. It’s been around for a while. I had a former coworker who’s sister had a textbook pregnancy and delivery, but the baby had a previously undetected heart defect and passed and they had this service come and take what were the most heartbreaking but beautiful photos and this was like 9 years ago. 

[doodlebug]

38 minutes ago, MichaelaRae said:

Poor Joy and Austin. That's just so awful. Can't imagine their grief. I fear that probably the ultrasound was being filmed because who else takes that photo? (I can't imagine it being something you ASKED to have done in the spur of the moment by someone there with a camera phone but...hell, I don't get most of this curated Instagram life thing that is so much of the world today, so maybe you do now?)

I think Lauren may have deleted her comment - I can't seem to find it while I can still see the comments from other friends and family. Would have loved to have read the comments on that one. What a dramatic little viper.

The photo of Joy and Austin was taken in the hospital, not at an ultrasound.  Since they themselves posted it, I presume they were ok with it being taken and wanted to share it as a depiction of their grief.  Better than an ammo box.

Edited July 4, 2019 by doodlebug

[doodlebug]

4 minutes ago, Trillium said:

There’s a non profit called Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep where they have volunteer photographers come to take photos when there is a stillbirth or when they know they baby will not survive. It’s been around for a while. I had a former coworker who’s sister had a textbook pregnancy and delivery, but the baby had a previously undetected heart defect and passed and they had this service come and take what were the most heartbreaking but beautiful photos and this was like 9 years ago. 

They're still around, they come to hospitals where I practice.  They take lovely photos of the baby, the family, anything the parents want and then put together a beautiful photo album as a keepsake.  Most of them are professional photographers and they often are taking the pictures with tears streaming down their cheeks.

[Snow Fairy]

I don't think any of the J kids are so close that they know how to and want to comfort each other like they should. 

[GeeGolly]

Hmmm, Lauren's tweet is gone. Did she get it? Will it stick? Or did she delete it because someone told her too?

Both Erin B and Whitney B posted their condolences without a mention of their losses. Maybe the responses to Lauren's post and the examples of others will wake her up.

[Scarlett45]

I am very sorry for Joy. She’s suffering on a physical, emotional and mental level. I hope Austin is a support for her and she doesn’t blame herself for this. Having someone in her corner will mean all the difference for her emotionally.

Lauren really needs to STFU, and not make everything about her. I disagree with the notion that Jinger and Jess’s should stop posting happy photos on their social media during this time- I think they can post what they like on their own social media. If tomorrow Joy goes back to posting “as normal” I wouldn’t think any less of her for it. She might just want to grieve privately and capture the good memories. 

Again I’m sorry for Joy. 

[Temperance]

I don't feel or know there's anything Joy and Austin could have differently. I don't blame them at all and I hope they don't blame themselves.

I also worry that they will blame themselves, because of the cult they grew up in. Gothard preached that good things will happen to his followers if they obey their rules/lifestyle. Bad things are supposed to only happen if people aren't "Godly" enough.  I watched the Youth Conference for Christ video (which you can see on youtube) featuring JB and Michelle and David and Priscilla Waller. They told story after story about how good things happen to their "Godly" friends and family and bad things happened to people who weren't following God. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Joy and Austin doubled down on their beliefs after having such a negative experience. My thoughts and sympathy are with them. 

As for Lauren, what seems most insensitive about her post is that she still pregnant. 

[Annabel11]

Maybe it was Josiah who posted the comment, not Lauren.

[cmr2014]

1 hour ago, mom2two said:

I just hope that they don't blame this as something sinful that Joy or Austin did, just like they blamed Anna when her scumbag husband cheated.   I had a friend lose a baby at 18 weeks, and it is very hard and emotional. 

Of course they will -- in some passive-aggressive, Jesus-y way. They have to because it's part of their fundamental belief system. "Losing your baby will give you more time to pray . . . " (because you obviously didn't pray enough). Or "Now there will be even more room in your heart for Jesus" (because she was secretly allowing things other than Jesus into her heart).

Whatever it is, it will be awful and heartless, and for the millionth time, I'm very grateful to not be a part of that "family."

[Sew Sumi]

Speaking of doubling down, Joy has already been recognized as the most "conservative." It will be interesting to see how this loss affects them in the long run. 

FWIW, Jill got a generic post up this morning.

[Zella]

2 hours ago, irisheyes said:

Poor Joy.  These next few months are going to be very tough. Thankfully, she has Gideon to keep her busy, and it looks like Austin has really grown to be a good husband. She’s gonna need a lot of support from his family, cause she’s certainly not getting it from hers. 

I hope she and Austin are able to get some counseling, though I know it probably won't happen.

She's had 2 really dramatic heartbreaks in less than a month--losing her grandmother and losing the baby. Either one would be overwhelming on their own. Can't even imagine how upsetting both would be together.

I'm glad she and Austin seem to be doing well together--in the past few months, they seem a lot happier and more comfortable with each other. I hope they're able to at least provide each other with quality emotional support since the Duggars seem incapable of doing so. 

[LongDenimFrumper]

How incredibly sad. I’m very sorry for Joy. I can’t imagine what she’s going through right now.  I don’t agree with much this family does or supports but it’s still a terrible situation to lose a much wanted child. 

All that being said... when you make a career of reproducing, I would imagine you need to try to prepare yourself mentally for a few losses. It would be very unusual to reach offspring in numbers of teens & twenties without miscarriage, stillbirth, or the possibility of some serious health conditions for mother or baby. Especially in this case where the family tradition is to push the spacing of births together as close as humanly possible. They also give very little to no recovery time for the mother. An unwanted outcome is bound to happen when you push your body to the limit. 

Joy is barely an adult herself... I hope they give her enough time to recover both physically & mentally. 

Lauren is nauseating... 

[Albanyguy]

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I truly believe the Duggars have ZERO idea of how to actually support other people -- and zero impulse to do so. Their parents have no empathy for anyone -- and they've deliberately adopted a cult that preaches the glories of no empathy. They don't give a shit about their children and they raised the kids to be nothing but rivals and snitches for each other, if you ask me.

Living in a house of spies doesn't foster bonding. And i think we see that lack of empathy constantly among the Duggarlings. Their God is an angry, jealous spiteful God and they enjoy being just like him, as far as I can see. 

Couldn't agree more. Adding to that, these girls have been brought up to believe that having babies is the only reason for their existence, the only true measure of a woman's worth. It's become an Olympic event: who can get pregnant the fastest after the wedding, who gives birth at home as opposed to a hospital, who has the longest labor, who can come the closest to cheating death, who can pop out the most number of babies, who will give birth to those elusive twins. The competition is brutal and I doubt if there's any sportsmanship involved.

[Spencer Hastings]

35 minutes ago, Temperance said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Joy and Austin doubled down on their beliefs after having such a negative experience. My thoughts and sympathy are with them. 

This is what concerns me.  Her parents were relatively normal in their beliefs and reproductive goals until they lost J’Caleb.  That miscarriage sent their lives into the tailspin that it is today and I think Michelle was probably about as far along as little miss Lauren.  Joy and Austin have both rebelled in the past and come back to their faith stronger.  While I’m happy that their faith can be a comfort to them, I really hope that they don’t let this make them turn into bigger zealots. 

[cmr2014]

It's tremendously sad for Joy and Austin. It would be sad for anyone but, given their beliefs, I would imagine that they feel tremendously guilty on top of the many other emotions they're dealing with right now.

That having been said, I do hope that this slows their roll in the baby department -- it probably won't, but there's always hope. Remember that Joy and Austin are the only two who have explicitly stated that they see nothing wrong with the Pearl "training" methods. What we see are cute babies and toddlers, we don't see inside the daily lives of these kids with the religious brow-beating and the harsh physical "discipline."

I have much more compassion for these theoretical kids than I do their parents, and I hope that none of them will come close to recreating the horror show of the Duggar parents.

[QuinnInND]

1 hour ago, Trillium said:

There’s a non profit called Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep where they have volunteer photographers come to take photos when there is a stillbirth or when they know they baby will not survive. It’s been around for a while. I had a former coworker who’s sister had a textbook pregnancy and delivery, but the baby had a previously undetected heart defect and passed and they had this service come and take what were the most heartbreaking but beautiful photos and this was like 9 years ago. 

Yes! These are the people who came and took pictures of our daughter. With us. They were beautifully and tastefully done.  If you didn't know better, you would think she was just sleeping. She was almost full term, so I'm sure that helped. I am so grateful to them and to the hospital for getting them to come. Those pictures mean the world to us. 

[Lunera]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Both Erin B and Whitney B posted their condolences without a mention of their losses.

I totally forgot Whitney miscarried last year. You know why because she doesn't bring it up every second and doesn't refer to her new blessing as her 4th rainbow baby. Erin too, to her Carson is her first child not her 3rd.

[NotthebadVictoria]

It appears Joy and Austin’s Instagram account is gone. 

[farmgal4]

5 minutes ago, NotthebadVictoria said:

It appears Joy and Austin’s Instagram account is gone. 

No, it’s still there.

[Sew Sumi]

I just successfully searched it. 

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, NotthebadVictoria said:

It appears Joy and Austin’s Instagram account is gone. 

I can still access it. 

[Lunera]

4 minutes ago, NotthebadVictoria said:

It appears Joy and Austin’s Instagram account is gone. 

I just checked a second ago and it's still there. Did you possibly get blocked?

[NotthebadVictoria]

1 minute ago, Lunera said:

I just checked a second ago and it's still there. Did you possibly get blocked?

No idea how, I’ve never commented or liked a post of theirs but I can access it from my business page so maybe so 🤷🏻‍♀️. I don’t even know how that would have happened. 

[ginger90]

[MichaelaRae]

Well, clearly Joy and Austin are okay with the photo as they posted it - I didn't mean to imply they weren't - I just was assuming that because the photo WAS taken at what is very obviously an intimate moment (and therefore not one where you're likely to hand a phone to someone in the room and be like "get a shot of this"), that must have meant the crew was there filming. But I wasn't aware of that type of photography being available and if that's something they wanted and arranged for, I think that's lovely for them.

[mynextmistake]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Hmmm, Lauren's tweet is gone. Did she get it? Will it stick? Or did she delete it because someone told her too?

Both Erin B and Whitney B posted their condolences without a mention of their losses. Maybe the responses to Lauren's post and the examples of others will wake her up.

I certainly hope she gets it, but somehow I doubt she will. I wonder if Joe intervened? We know he and Joy are close and he and Kendra seem to be capable of empathy. I think it’s unlikely that Lauren would have removed the post unless someone smacked her upside the head with a clue-by-four.

I really do feel terrible for Joy and Austin. I hope they find some comfort and peace.

Edited July 4, 2019 by mynextmistake