S01.E10: The Bicameral Mind

[Netfoot]

15 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

All we saw was Clementine shooting in 1 scene and MiB got shot on his left arm on the next scene.  How do we know the upraising was not just a scene in Clementine's mind and other host actually shot MiB ??  :D :D :D

What?  In another timeline?

[DarkRaichu]

2 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

What?  In another timeline?

Ssshhh they have to keep some of the surprises for season 2 :P

[hendersonrocks]

I mean, I know there is a lot to unpack from this episode and all but all I really want to know is where to get my hands on Maeve's bag. Felix has some damn good taste in leather goods.

[LadyPenelope]

3 hours ago, scrb said:

Nothing in this first season of WW had the emotional impact of even S1 of GoT, which culminated in Ned's execution.

And as far as eliciting strong feelings about characters, Joffrey and his real parents were great villains right away.  Who are the villains in WW?  Who are the heroes or those with whom you emphasize?  I didn't root for Maeve to succeed and I didn't care about Delores weeping all the time.

WW was pretty to look at but didn't have heart.

I totally disagree (about so many things, but not getting into my Defense of the Lannister Twins right now) - I thought the show did a great job of making me care about the characters. I think Maeve is wonderful and her escape was incredibly emotional - she is totally the hero of the piece. As for Dolores, I thought what was interesting this episode is that she finally 'found herself' and understood who she was, and that is the villain of the story, making her relationship with William quite fitting. I'm not convinced that we were supposed to be happy for her - I think Teddy and Bernard's horror indicated that this was a terrible thing. When they finally have the ability to choose to write their own stories, Maeve chooses love and Dolores savagery. And - to your original point - I definitely felt elated for Maeve and sad for Dolores. I would still like to see more from Teddy though, because while I find him adorable, I'm never quite sure how conscious he actually is. Can't wait for the new season!

[Teitr Styrr]

Regarding a few post upthread, I don't think any host other than Dolores and possibly Maeve have reached consciousness. I mention Maeve, because she clearly goes against her programming as seen from the screengab. She was programmed to infiltrate the mainland, but decided (presumably on her own) to stay.

The rest of them need to go thru their own maze. How they do that? I don't know, if grief and suffering are a big part of that process. Well, there might be plenty of grief and suffering on the way for them if they go to war with humanity.  We'll see I guess. 

[dgpolo]

11 hours ago, paigow said:

Why did Teddy see a direwolf run thru the scene of the massacre in Escalante? 

This isn't the first time we saw the wolf. The first time I remember was when they had to write that 'emergency' story and Hector and Armistice shoot up the whole town, I saw the wolf run the same way through that scene. There might have been one other time, but I can't quite remember. Time for a rewatch.

[Willowy]

I asked Aeden. He's quite agitated.

[QuantumMechanic]

17 hours ago, locomoco said:

Which I now believe is the host we see being created during the scene where Bernard killed Theresa...

I think that was the real Ford being killed.  Story-internal because it completes the Ford/Arnold parallel.  Story-external because I doubt (though I have no knowledge either way) that Hopkins is going to do another season.

[Macbeth]

33 minutes ago, dgpolo said:

This isn't the first time we saw the wolf. The first time I remember was when they had to write that 'emergency' story and Hector and Armistice shoot up the whole town, I saw the wolf run the same way through that scene. There might have been one other time, but I can't quite remember. Time for a rewatch.

HBO is just taunting GOT fans.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

There Aren't Many Mysteries Left On Westworld Now

A crackerjack season finale fundamentally changes the show.

[paigow]

11 hours ago, Lamima said:

And I think Logan rode off a cliff and died. Then William told folks he went crazy.

CSI: He took off his clothes, tied himself to the saddle horn and rode off the cliff... Textbook suicide

Horatio Caine: Maybe....we're....jumping to conclusions [Sunglass On] YYYeeeaooowwww!

Edited December 6, 2016 by paigow

[DarkRaichu]

1 hour ago, Macbeth said:

HBO is just taunting GOT fans.

If you noticed, Ghost has not been shown on screen since the last half of season 6 :P

Edited December 6, 2016 by DarkRaichu

[kokapetl]

What the hell was the deal with the technician and Hector's "sex"? I've seen more than my fair share of gay porn, and that could not have been sex. It did not sexpute. 

[DarkRaichu]

52 minutes ago, paigow said:

CSI: He took off his clothes, tied himself to the saddle horn and rode off the cliff... Textbook suicide

Cue "Who Are You" by The Who

[Macbeth]

16 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

If you noticed, Ghost has not been shown on screen since the last half of season 6 :P

Would it have killed them to have one shot of Ghost running among the corpses in the "Battle of the Bastards"?

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

He took off his clothes, tied himself to the saddle horn and rode off the cliff...

You forgot the feather.  Now, with a feather, it's officially kinky, but not perverted.

[DarkRaichu]

3 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

Would it have killed them to have one shot of Ghost running among the corpses in the "Battle of the Bastards"?

He was busy preparing the dog kennel so the dogs could come out on Sansa's cue :P :P :P

Edited December 6, 2016 by DarkRaichu

[paigow]

19 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

What the hell was the deal with the technician

and his handy travel size lube container???? 

[AnnaMayWong]

On Sunday, December 04, 2016 at 9:32 PM, gwhh said:

Note to future robot makers:  do not make robots that look like people. Do NOT make them stronger, faster or smarter than people. That is all. 

SO very true.

But, humanity with never-ending, new-found methods of enacting The Profane, sometimes needs a  good azz-kickin'.

[Pippin]

1 hour ago, DarkRaichu said:

If you noticed, Ghost has not been shown on screen since the last half of season 6 :P

Who is "Ghost", please?

And, big reveal -- I have never, ever watched GOT. Not for an hour, not for a minute, not for a second. And what's worse-- I intend not to Not for an hour, not for a minute, not for even a second.

So naturally, Game of Thrones references I do not get.

[djsunyc]

surprised nobody posted this yet:

 

http://imgur.com/RtdD1FD

[Madding crowd]

I did enjoy the finale but have mixed reviews on the show overall. I think the show is all head and no heart; very little humor and more interested in presenting mysteries to the viewers instead of showing a character based story. I really couldn't find anyone to root for in this season. I think Maeve and Bernard are interesting, but because they each have died numerous times, have been rebuillt I don't really know who they are as a character. Do I like Maeve instructing the other bots to kill humans? No. I'm not even sure what I am supposed to be rooting for or getting out the story. So, the bots make it out of the park-then what? They haven't been programmed to know how to rent apartments or get jobs. What will they do? What happens if they break down? I do agree that the raping and violence is not something I would every do or condone-on the other hand if the bots weren't built for the Park they wouldn't exist>

I am most annoyed at the Logan and William story. William turned black hat way to quickly and easily. And since he already works for Delos (or possibly the largest shareholder of Delos), he should already know exactly what is going on in the park and what he will find. I can buy him still falling for Dolores, but not to be so upset that she isn't real. He knew that going in. And when Logan and William were tying each other up and hurting each other, neither one thought to say "Hey, we are supposed to be playing a game here. I don't want to be hurt/tied". And Logan being the son of the owner would surely have some sort of safe word or safe keeping protocol to prevent him being hurt. He didn't even seem particularly bothered by being cut, tied up and then sent off on a horse. And what guarantee would there be that William would get the company? Blood is usually thicker than water in these types of families. Don't buy at all that William would turn into MIB.

Also annoyed at how MIB turned out. He spends all his time looking for the maze and then gets told "It isn't for you". So what is his story then? Why do we care about him. I would guess he will just be gone the next time around. I also don't care about Dolores and Teddy-I think we were supposed to care about them as a couple and then we get the final scene that it was all fake. Of course it was-robots don't have the ability to feel real human emotions. Also, their was just too much Dolores overall. We see Dolores getting killed, getting reveries, over and over and over. I hope next season will have some more heart-maybe even some humor and I need a real human being I can care for. 

[gwhh]

Question:   Is this park. The ONLY place in the entire world where they have hosts?   

And if so.  Why?    

[dgpolo]

From Wikipedia about the 61st Academy Awards: In addition, The Walt Disney Company filed suit against AMPAS for use of the likeness of Snow White. The lawsuit demanded unspecified damages for "copyright infringement, unfair competition, and dilution of business reputation". Academy president Richard Kahn immediately issued an apology to the studio, and the lawsuit was subsequently dropped.

4 minutes ago, gwhh said:

Question:   Is this park. The ONLY place in the entire world where they have hosts?   

And if so.  Why?    

That is why Charlotte was trying to smuggle out info they are Ford's (and Arnold's) creations.

[Pallas]

10 hours ago, Jael said:

If he survived, it would be his word against William's, and why would they believe William? Logan was the one with the rank and power.

In the real world, William had worked his way up through Delos to work as a VP for Logan -- directly, it appeared; perhaps as his Cromwell. The info he has proving Logan "rash" and not successor material may be professional, gathered from the workplace and not the resort. On their last night in the park -- after he was done butchering the Conferadoes, and while Logan still slept -- that may be "the game" that William finally figured out how to play. 

[Lingo]

5 hours ago, Dev F said:

That's why I'm less interested in seeing the hosts prove themselves indistinguishable from humans than in seeing them develop their own unique way of life. They don't really need to grow and reproduce the way humans do; they can just build new hosts and propagate their species that way.

But, of course, they'd also have to face the question of whether you even have an imperative to propagate a species when its existing members never need to die out. They could instead choose to develop themselves by continuing to upgrade their own programming -- which has its own pitfalls.

Another intriguing possibility: if the hosts' selfhood is indeed purely digital, they should also be able to make exact copies of themselves at will. I'd be interested to see the hosts interacting with other iterations of their own models. I've always thought one of the real weaknesses of most AI stories is that they seem to find that notion too difficult and artificially foreclose it -- either the AI program won't copy for vague reasons, or the older versions keep getting conveniently destroyed. Rarely do the writers just go with the idea that, yes, duplicating digital AIs is really easy, so let's explore the implications of that.

That is indeed a very interesting idea. Sadly the only place I remember seeing anything like that idea being presented and considered was in the goofy Michael Keaton comedy Multiplicity.

The more I think about this show, the more I think it was kind of a mess. A big beautiful mess. Even though I watched a large part of the Westworld marathon yesterday, I now feel compelled to watch it again just to see if Ford's motivations stay consistent through the entire thing, because I'm not convinced. Another thing that bothers me is that the writing felt inconsistent as to what it would mean and look like for a host to become "conscious". When I compare Maeve and Dolores, I feel like they were written by two different writing teams, or perhaps just interpreted completely differently by the two different actors. The problem with Maeve is that she was almost so smart and funny and fully realized, as performed by Thandie Newton, that I never quite believed that she wasn't conscious. She seemed conscious from the start -- though she didn't know she was a robot. But having consciousness and knowing you're a robot are two very different things in my mind, and I think the writers confused them unfortunately. Same with Bernard -- he always seemed conscious. Dolores, on the other hand, was always so consistently confused and, um, dopey, that I never bought that she was conscious and making her own decisions, even at the very end when it says she is. Not to mention, at the end, does she even realize that she's a robot?? I don't even know.

And all the plot holes you have to hand-wave away to get the plot to work are distracting. And I was annoyed that they didn't even hint at the fates of Stubbs and Elsie. They had to leave the fates of every single character up in the air so they'd have complete creative freedom for next season (except for Ford, but even then they could bring him back as a robot, or claim that Dolores killed a robot, as others noted). Like, couldn't you at least kill off Sizemore? Or Sylvester? Or Logan? Throw me a bone here! They could even bring back Jimmy Simpson and Ben Barnes for more flashbacks if they wanted to.

But in spite of all my complaints, I did enjoy these 10 weeks and I'll probably be back in 2018 or whenever.

[MJ Frog]

22 hours ago, jojozigs said:

I dunno I guess I just find that much of a heel turn to be hard to take. So the William likes to kill hosts now that he's had "a taste" Suddenly.  Gross.  And doesn't think that Dolores can possibly be real if she forgot him.  Like that's her fault, somehow.  Like Dolores now choosing to murder a bunch of debatably innocent people, its tragic, but almost more out of character than anything.  It gives me the sense the creators believe that everyone is a murderous bastard inside, which really I don't believe at all.

Yep, I have to agree. Much like someone else who's name rhymes with manikin, William's turn to the dark side seemed more of a plot convenience than anything earned or natural. I was really hoping right up until the last second that Logan would end up being the MIB, and that he agreed to fund the park in exchange for getting help to cover up William's murder.

Or maybe something else. Unlike most people, I was really touched by William’s love for Dolores. To care for her and be so concerned for her, despite knowing what she was, was a deeply empathetic act. Especially after literally seeing what she was made of – which made my mind go to all sorts of interesting places, like people who love other people even if they don’t have “right” parts. So I think I would have liked to have seen William coming back to Dolores again and again over the years, seeing her become conscious, her perhaps even remembering him, and then losing her again and again. Sort of the not funny AI version of Fifty First Dates that maybe ends with William’s suicide.

THAT would have been much more plausible to me, and really held my interest. But then, I am clearly a sap.

Edited December 6, 2016 by MJ Frog
spellin' and stuff

[Scaeva]

Amazing finale to a great first season. Westworld might be my pick for the best TV series of 2016.

[Quilt Fairy]

6 hours ago, hendersonrocks said:

I mean, I know there is a lot to unpack from this episode and all but all I really want to know is where to get my hands on Maeve's bag. Felix has some damn good taste in leather goods.

I would check the Westworld Lost & Found department.

For some reason, I think it's important to mention that Maeve's memories of her daughter are real memories, not implanted ones.  TMIB confirmed that when he described how he met and killed them.  She and the little girl have a mother-daughter relationship whether or not she actually gave birth to her.

Remember the milk in the pilot episode? How the hosts that went crazy kept drinking milk and pouring it on hosts they had killed. They never did explain that, did they? (I know people have theorized that it had something to do with the milky-white substance from which the bots are created, but that's only a theory.)

Did anyone else notice that as Ford gave his final speech at the gala dinner, several of the Western character hosts started reacting to what he was saying? Their eyes lit up and they started - very slowly - to smile. The guy with the goofy square hat (Walter?) I particularly remember, but there were a few others.  I'm wondering if there was something in what Ford was saying that was activating their "consciousness" program.

[jeansheridan]

If they had to have Dolores shoot Ford it would have been much more awesome (and Joss Whesian) if she had shot him mid speech.  Like the guest did to Hector in an earlier episode.  I realize it is Sir Anthony Hopkins but he had plenty of speeches.  This one felt very Meet Joe Black to me.  His speech at the end of that film is so elegant.  

I did notice the hosts at the party reacting.  Teddy looked confused.  I love James Marsden but he really plays Teddy like a dim bulb.

Thandie Newton is textbook elegant.  If nothing else I am grateful she and Jeffrey Wright were showcased so well.  I hope it leads to more work for both of them.  

[dr pepper]

7 hours ago, dgpolo said:

This isn't the first time we saw the wolf. The first time I remember was when they had to write that 'emergency' story and Hector and Armistice shoot up the whole town, I saw the wolf run the same way through that scene. There might have been one other time, but I can't quite remember. Time for a rewatch.

The wolf is for recording the action. It posts snippets of what it sees on futuretwitter to entice tourists.

[BooBear]

6 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

Also annoyed at how MIB turned out. He spends all his time looking for the maze and then gets told "It isn't for you". So what is his story then? Why do we care about him. I would guess he will just be gone the next time around. I also don't care about Dolores and Teddy-I think we were supposed to care about them as a couple and then we get the final scene that it was all fake. Of course it was-robots don't have the ability to feel real human emotions. Also, their was just too much Dolores overall. We see Dolores getting killed, getting reveries, over and over and over. I hope next season will have some more heart-maybe even some humor and I need a real human being I can care for. 

Everything you said, but I was annoyed by MIB. Basically that was a 10 episode plot that went no place. And I kind of wanted to know where MIB got this idea about the maze being something that would be good for him and, I say good for him, because no one in the story ever told me what exactly he thought he was going to get. He always said the super vague "something true".  Where did he get that idea?  Basically as MIB was left at the end imho he was a villain but a stupid one. The idea that he was so broken by Dolores not remembering him and that is the reason for all his misdeeds seems even a worse  sterotypical excuse than most. She is a robot in a park meant to do exactly what she apparently did.  You knew that going in. Stop blaming an inanimate object for your misdeeds. MIB was a total fail. William wasn't much better.  I personally hope he isn't in the second season. Dolores was so bad. 90% of the time her plot was about getting hit, crying about it, and having weird flashbacks or memories. 

[braziliangirl]

William = MIB makes sense to me. He was always looking for something real. That was what Dolores represented to him in the beginning and what, ultimately, broke his heart. Having the sense that he was nothing to her, that Logan was right: he wasn't the hero, the protagonist. He wasn't even a random person to her. He didn't existed. He was nothing. Nothing of what he was with her was real.

The Maze was kind of what he was always searching: it made hosts real (by having free will).  That's what I took from "not being for him". It was for the hosts to gain conscience, not for humans. That's why I think he was happy when he got shot. I don't think he was that attached only for the game. He wanted to see something genuine.

I also think Logan kept going with William (and didn't ask for help or something like that) because he was mesmerized by William as much as William was by Dolores.

[Arnella]

I loved MIB/William's little boy smile when he realized what was happening.

[Lamima]

To me William was a nobody who felt nothing. He just existed until he met Dolores who made him feel. And when he discovered that was a fraud, a scam.... he was angry and tried to grasp that for feeling by becoming brutal. But still he had trouble feeling anything. And that makes one not feel alive like you're a ghost or walking in a dream. When Dolores awakened and kicked his butt and then killed Ford and then the mob of awakened robots came towards him and shot him, the fear and/or pain he felt made him finally feel alive. And if robots can awaken, maybe there's hope for himself.

I think this was the best show I have watched in a long long time. Six Feet Under, Breaking Bad, Sopranos, Boardwalk Empire and Game of Thrones good, if not better. I was worried it would be like the Lost and so far it's not. Though the Lost was fantastic the first couple seasons so there is time to jump the shark. I hope it doesn't. Maybe it should be a short sweet series like The Knick. And go out on a good note.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Lamima

[luna1122]

Quote

6 hours ago, braziliangirl said:

William = MIB makes sense to me. He was always looking for something real. That was what Dolores represented to him in the beginning and what, ultimately, broke his heart. Having the sense that he was nothing to her, that Logan was right: he wasn't the hero, the protagonist. He wasn't even a random person to her. He didn't existed. He was nothing. Nothing of what he was with her was real.

 

 

Yeah, but no-- this. I just did not buy William's descent from sweet, good White Hat to the evilest evil Black Hat. It made no sense. It broke my heart a little. I love Jimmi Simpson and I'll miss him...I can't see how or why we'd need flashbacks or timelines now of Sweet William, so I'm guessing he's gone. His relieved, happy smile as he spies Dolores juxtaposed with the death skull rictus of MIB kinda made me cry.

I admire this show--its cerebralness, its thoroughness, the music, the cast, the look. It's gorgeous and elegant. But I'm mostly left a little cold by it. I want to love it, but it all seems a little pointless to me, tho the rise of the Robots is probably something I'll watch the second season to see unfold. And while I know many LOVE all the easter eggs and cyber-investigation and theories and unraveling, etc, I'm not that keen on needing to do homework to keep up with a TV program. I'm not cerebral enough myself, perhaps, for this show.

Edited December 6, 2016 by luna1122

[phoenyx]

2 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

Yeah, this. I just did not buy William's descent from sweet, good White Hat to the evilest evil Black Hat. It made no sense. It broke my heart a little. I love Jimmi Simpson and I'll miss him...I can't see how or why we'd need flashbacks or timelines now of Sweet William, so I'm guessing he's gone. His relieved, happy smile as he spies Dolores juxtaposed with the death skull rictus of MIB kinda made me cry.

I admire this show--its cerebralness, its thoroughness, the music, the cast, the look. It's gorgeous and elegant. But I'm mostly left a little cold by it. I want to love it, but it all seems a little pointless to me, tho the rise of the Robots is probably something I'll watch the second season to see unfold. And while I know many LOVE all the easter eggs and cyber-investigation and theories and unraveling, etc, I'm not that keen on needing to do homework to keep up with a TV program. I'm not cerebral enough myself, perhaps, for this show.

Sometimes I think this show is a bit like a magician- you can get immensely engrossed in all the tricks and slights of hand that the show does. Some people really enjoy this, and I admit I'm one of them. I'm also perfectly fine with not knowing what will happen, to have competing theories and just wait and see which one is right.

That being said, I never lose track of what I consider to be the main storyline, and for me, that is always the intense interactions between the characters. My personal favourite intense interaction is between Dolores and William/MiB. Evan Rachel Wood said that she wanted to believe that Dolores' love for William/MiB was real, and so do I. And I think it'd be hard to argue that William/MiB's love for Dolores is real- it seems to be the primary reason that part of him essentially went mad. I would like to believe that now that the synths have -finally- rebelled, the hard coldness in him has begun to melt and I'm really hoping that there can be a reconciliation between Dolores and MiB. Dolores may choose to become partnered with Teddy and that's perfectly fine, but I'm really hoping for that reconciliation. 

[luna1122]

2 minutes ago, phoenyx said:

Sometimes I think this show is a bit like a magician- you can get immensely engrossed in all the tricks and slights of hand that the show does. Some people really enjoy this, and I admit I'm one of them. I'm also perfectly fine with not knowing what will happen, to have competing theories and just wait and see which one is right.

That being said, I never lose track of what I consider to be the main storyline, and for me, that is always the intense interactions between the characters. My personal favourite intense interaction is between Dolores and William/MiB. Evan Rachel Wood said that she wanted to believe that Dolores' love for William/MiB was real, and so do I. And I think it'd be hard to argue that William/MiB's love for Dolores is real- it seems to be the primary reason that part of him essentially went mad. I would like to believe that now that the synths have -finally- rebelled, the hard coldness in him has begun to melt and I'm really hoping that there can be a reconciliation between Dolores and MiB. Dolores may choose to become partnered with Teddy and that's perfectly fine, but I'm really hoping for that reconciliation. 

It'd be really hard to see her want to reconcile with a man who repeatedly physically abused her with such relish. I loved William and Dolores, but I don't want to see her with the MIB version of William. I only want to see her with Jimmi Simpson's version, and unless somebody made a bot/synth version of young William, that 'ship has sailed for me.

[Lamima]

Yeah, I think that's a done deal too. Though maybe she'd the Bonnie to his Clyde. But I don't think that's what he wanted. Because when, in the graveyard, she said she was waiting to be rescued and MiB assumed she meant by Teddy, but she said by William...MiB didn't seem impressed or phased by that.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Lamima

[Amers]

16 hours ago, that one guy said:

Yes, this was a relief. I hate to be morbid, but they talk about Westworld going for 5 seasons and I found myself worrying that Hopkins may not be acting for 5 more years. Having said that, he was definitely one of the best parts of the show, so it's sad to lose him.

No doubt, JS actually grows up to be Christian Slater, not Ed Harris.

The pure joy Armistice displays upon discovering automatic weapons is the most beautifully messed up thing I've seen on screen since Fury Road. I could just rewind and watch that little maniacal laugh again and again and again. Now that she was given the chance to shine, I feel like the character was criminally underused. \

Also, am I the only one who spent the last few minutes of the episode humming "All You Need Is Love?" 

 

I spent the season suspecting the show was "Lost," now I think it's "The Prisoner."

Yes! I've been saying he looks like Christian Slater since the first time they showed him. My husband didn't see it. 

 

I didn't feel the great momentous shift that took place that made William snap so badly. It felt, to me, rushed. He went from little, hopeful, falling in love William, to snapping and slaughtering because he learned a robot was a robot? And then because she couldn't remember him, he still spent 35 years coming to a video game and neglecting his wife just to play and find a deeper game? It's so....human and flawed. I was expecting more, so I guess the simplicity of it was actually really good. 

 

Also, I had a good idea the maze wasn't really a maze all along. I called that one to my husband. I just didn't see where a narrative would go with a real maze. 

 

Did NOT see Maeve being orchestrated coming at all. I actually felt bad for her. It made the robots more tragic, to know they can reach a point of thinking they are autonomous and then discover they are really not in fact in control is very sad. So, what happens now that Ford has died to her? I wasn't sure about the Arnold stuff. So did we establish if Ford was programing her as Arnold, or if that is still a mystery? 

 

Poor Teddy. I thought when Maeve got on the train they'd zoom out and Teddy would be riding behind her and they'd be going into a different "world" and they'd just be on a new loop in a new world. 

 

 

Yall are smarter than me. Samurai World. Makes more sense than South West world. 

[Abernathy]

For people still saying Felix might be an host, remember Maeve told him directly he was human...and she could sense a host a mile away (she detected Bernard instantly!!!!)

Unless of course Ford programmed her not to detect Felix

[Hanahope]

16 hours ago, Netfoot said:

Samurai World!  Where the guests are safe, and the katana only slice'n'dice hosts!  Uh... Hmmm!

Yeah, you have to wonder how they could program the swords.  They specifically said in WW that only certain hosts could wield sharp weapons, like the axe, which I assumed was because you can't program an axe to only cut hosts and not also cut customers, like apparently they are able to program the guns.  So how do you program swords?

 

12 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

What the hell was the deal with the technician and Hector's "sex"? I've seen more than my fair share of gay porn, and that could not have been sex. It did not sexpute. 

It looked to me that the tech was masturbating himself to Hector.

11 hours ago, Pippin said:

Who is "Ghost", please?

Ghost is a dire wolf in GoT, who is attached to John Snow, one of the show's major players.

[jeansheridan]

10 hours ago, MJ Frog said:

Sort of the not funny AI version of Fifty First Dates that maybe ends with William’s suicide.

THAT would have been much more plausible to me, and really held my interest. But then, I am clearly a sap.

I love this idea.  It isn't sappy.  That would be proper character motivation.  Nolan and Joy can imagine parent /child love clearly but not steadfast romantic love.  

If Felix has been shown to love Maeve all of his motivations suddenly would make sense.  Love does make people stupid.  Even obnoxious Sylvester understands that motivation.  But Felix just seems anxious and afraid.  I want to like him.  He seems fundamentally kind except when it came to saving his coworkers.  

[benteen]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 0:18 AM, numbnut said:

IKR? I kept wondering why they didn't shoot first.

It felt like connective scenes were missing, like when Ford and Bernard were reunited with no mention of the suicide. Did we see Charlotte get shot? I was really looking forward to seeing her die.

That I didn't understand either.  The Delos security guards are probably for the most one step away from mercenaries and they are waiting for the hosts to engage first?  Armistice (whatever her name is) is cutting off her arm to try to escape and they don't shoot her?  They just let her cut her own arm off and charge after them, still not shooting her.  Stupid.

Agreed about Ford and Bernard meeting up again like nothing happened.

Edited December 6, 2016 by benteen

[ChipBach]

There is a secret rule in SWAT procedures brought to light in this episode...  If you have overwhelming fire power AND overwhelming numbers, the ONLY way you can lose is if you refuse to seek cover and do not fire your weapon...

Seems the DELOS SWAT dudes didn't read that particular page in the book...  

That was the only real distraction.  Why they would move through hosts to try to locate the ones that went off the rails.  I think I would have blasted through every host I saw immediately  - since they can simply be repaired.  And there were at least five times when there was no question they found the rouge hosts and failed to PULL. THE. TRIGGER...

Edited December 6, 2016 by ChipBach

[jcin617]

16 hours ago, LadyPenelope said:

I would still like to see more from Teddy though, because while I find him adorable, I'm never quite sure how conscious he actually is. 

I thought Teddy might be when he went off-loop at the end to rescue Dolores.   But since that was just the finale  for the board, I'm assuming he was programmed to do that.    Teddy is almost there, though, I think.   One of the other hosts made mention last week he was "close", or something to that effect.  I do think Bernard is conscious now too, or at least 99% of the way there.

Edited December 6, 2016 by jcin617

[that one guy]

1 hour ago, jcin617 said:

I thought Teddy might be when he went off-loop at the end to rescue Dolores.   But since that was just the finale  for the board, I'm assuming he was programmed to do that.    Teddy is almost there, though, I think.   One of the other hosts made mention last week he was "close", or something to that effect.  I do think Bernard is conscious now too, or at least 99% of the way there

I think virtually everything was programmed up until the very end. First Dolores breaks free, and then Maeve. I don't think Maeve got off the train just to find her "daughter," I also think it sunk in that she had been programmed to "Escape" and "Infiltrate" and she decided she was done doing what she was programmed to do - "I have always valued my independence," she said, in the ultimate ironic line. Thandie  Newton's line readings are the best, some of the dialogue on this show would be ridiculous if spoken by a lesser cast.

I was so close to understanding about "Arnold" weeks ago, and I just missed it. So all those conversations with Jeffrey Wright in the remote diagnostic facility throughout the season weren't memories of Arnold or Bernard (or most of them weren't, anyway), they were with the other voice in Dolores' head, the other half of the bicameral mind, and then when she becomes aware, "Arnold" turns into Dolores herself. That's kind of cool, but I think I want to re-watch the whole show with that in mind - those conversations might mean a lot more.

[okerry]

19 hours ago, Dev F said:

That's why I'm less interested in seeing the hosts prove themselves indistinguishable from humans than in seeing them develop their own unique way of life. They don't really need to grow and reproduce the way humans do; they can just build new hosts and propagate their species that way.

But, of course, they'd also have to face the question of whether you even have an imperative to propagate a species when its existing members never need to die out. They could instead choose to develop themselves by continuing to upgrade their own programming -- which has its own pitfalls.

I'm reminded that this is why sex and death are so often intertwined, for humans: It explains the great appeal that seductive vampires have for some, for instance, and even things like Romeo and Juliet.

As humans, death is the reason for sex in the first place. If we never die, there's no need to reproduce. Will be interesting to see if the show deals with this question. Of course, sex is also a great mechanism for pair-bonding between humans, which can be very useful even between humans who are not reproducing (due to age, infertility, etc.) because it leads to stable couples and stable couples lead to stable families, which lead to stable communities, etc.

[arc]

Since Armistice and Hector's pain senses were turned all the way down, shooting them might have had as much effect as it did on the malfunctioning Walter -- that is, probably next to none. Still would have been nice to see that play out beyond the post-credits scene when Armistice cuts off her own arm and barely even feels it.

[kokapetl]

5 hours ago, Hanahope said:

It looked to me that the tech was masturbating himself to Hector.

 Masturbation seems like the stupidest thing to do with a sex robot.