S01.E09: The Trip

[Tiger]

2 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Link courtesy of @photo fox  I didn't realize that they also did the reverse with wee Milo pushing up Sterling and Justin also pushing up Sterling.

These guys are great.

I'm most impressed by Milo doing about 11 push-ups with Sterling on his back given that in that video and in last night's episode Sterling looks taller and bigger than Milo.

Does anyone know how tall Milo & Sterling actually are?

Actually, what I'm really most by impressed by is that Milo has that body as a vegan.  The vast majority of guys, including myself, have to consume pounds of meat weekly to get a body like that.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Tiger

[Ms Blue Jay]

7 hours ago, candall said:

Wow, I thought Rebecca was AWFUL for keeping her "lonely secret."  [snip]

I'll be needing longer than Thanksgiving-to-Christmas to get past all that, and I'm just a viewer!

@candall, I loved your post.

To borrow from @DearEvette earlier, You read Rebecca for filth, and I am here for it.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Lisa418722]

3 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

It may not be fair, but--sadly--it is realistic.  The fact is Jack is gone and the big three probably idolize him more in his absence than they did in his life.  My aunt and uncle had several kids and my uncle died several years ago, after all the kids were well into adulthood (my aunt in still living).  Even though my uncle was an uninvolved parent at best, you'd think by talking to his kids that he walked on water (and, unfortunately, their mother was the root of all their problems).  This is a completely different narrative from what they had when he was still living and healthy and, frankly, not an accurate one.

It's not fair...but it's natural.

Since my dad passed away in 2011, my mom has changed their marriage to a normal, every day marriage to a fairy tale and he brought her flowers and wrote & sang love songs to her every day and he did everything around the house and waited on her hand and foot and she never had to do anything (OK, maybe a slight exaggeration, but not much).  No, that's not the way it was. They had their ups and downs, but she has rewritten history (which is understandable because she misses him, but sometimes I want to remind her I know the way he really was).

Now back to the show. I wonder if maybe Jack died during surgery because of the way Kevin was acting about Kate having surgery.  I don't know... just a thought. 

[memememe76]

Regarding the Kate/Olivia fight. I think Kate has had to deal with various women in Kevin's life (from high school to Hollywood) and Olivia, despite her protestations, is not that much different. Sure, there may have been women who were hanging on to Kevin (which I suspect Kate may not have had as big a problem about), but I suspect that Kevin has a thing for women who plays it hard to get. Mommy issues and all. 

Olivia in that scene was probably her least offensive in that episode. Kate went on the attack first (loved it), so I didn't mind that Olivia fought back. Everything else, on the other hand...

[izabella]

1 hour ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Doesn't every surgery carry the risk of death?  I think it is 100% justified for Kevin to be concerned about it.  He did ask her about losing it through diet and exercise and Kate's answer was that it wasn't happening fast enough, that she would be 106 before she reached her goal weight.  Clearly, it is ultimately up to Kate whether she wants to take the risk, but I think it's fine for Kevin to ask questions about it and talk it through with her.  Plus, it's not like she's doing nothing about being obese right now.  She is making progress towards becoming healthier by eating healthier and adding physical activity to her lifestyle.  

As I understand it, you have to keep a very strict diet after the surgery, too, for a variety of reasons and not just that the weight will come back otherwise.  So if she isn't able to diet now, will she be able to diet after the surgery?  Maybe.  But worth more thought and consideration and research than an instant decision based on airplane turbulence. 

[Dowel Jones]

4 hours ago, Biggie B said:

Jamie Gertz is the actress who plays Kate's new boss back in California. The young lady who played Sloane is the actress who's in the AT&T commercials.

Sorry about that.  I went back and edited afterward.

Quote

 I couldn't think of any circumstances under which Randall would drink a smoothie that some stranger brought to their cabin.

Asher did say that his stuff was available for everyone while he was putting it in the refrigerator.  He probably assumed that everyone else would take that to mean the beer.  Obviously Randall didn't, if he heard the statement at all.  Regardless, you don't bring hallucinogens to a gathering without informing others that the drink is off limits.  And I wouldn't drink any kind of individual drink either.  That's just wrong.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Dowel Jones

[OtterMommy]

6 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

Regarding the Kate/Olivia fight. I think Kate has had to deal with various women in Kevin's life (from high school to Hollywood) and Olivia, despite her protestations, is not that much different. Sure, there may have been women who were hanging on to Kevin (which I suspect Kate may not have had as big a problem about), but I suspect that Kevin has a thing for women who plays it hard to get. Mommy issues and all. 

 

Also to note...Kate didn't seem that upset (or surprised) to find Sloane in Kevin's bed.  She may have had a thought like "this is typical Kevin behavior", but I didn't get the sense that she thought badly--or had any thoughts either way--about Sloane.  In other words, I don't think it is that Kate dislikes every woman who comes near her brother, but there was something about Olivia that really turned her off.

7 minutes ago, izabella said:

As I understand it, you have to keep a very strict diet after the surgery, too, for a variety of reasons and not just that the weight will come back otherwise.  So if she isn't able to diet now, will she be able to diet after the surgery?  Maybe.  But worth more thought and consideration and research than an instant decision based on airplane turbulence. 

But it seems that Kate has been, for the most part, sticking to her diet.  She did have one lapse that we know of with the donuts in the car, but otherwise she's stuck to whatever plan she was following.  She was just frustrated that the weight was so slow in coming off.

I do agree, though, that turbulence should not be the thing that leads her to this decision.  I'm not saying she shouldn't have it--it may very well be the right thing for her--but I do wish that she put some more thought into it than a minute of handholding with a stranger.

[cardigirl]

15 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

But it seems that Kate has been, for the most part, sticking to her diet.  She did have one lapse that we know of with the donuts in the car, but otherwise she's stuck to whatever plan she was following.  She was just frustrated that the weight was so slow in coming off.

I do agree, though, that turbulence should not be the thing that leads her to this decision.  I'm not saying she shouldn't have it--it may very well be the right thing for her--but I do wish that she put some more thought into it than a minute of handholding with a stranger.

I think most reputable clinics that do this type of surgery insist on a psychological evaluation to see if the person can handle the rigors of what this procedure requires of them.  I've known two people who have had a gastric band surgery. Both lost enormous amounts of weight.  Both did if for health reasons.  And both have regained much of what they lost.  

[GodsBeloved]

45 minutes ago, izabella said:

As I understand it, you have to keep a very strict diet after the surgery, too, for a variety of reasons and not just that the weight will come back otherwise.  So if she isn't able to diet now, will she be able to diet after the surgery?  Maybe.  But worth more thought and consideration and research than an instant decision based on airplane turbulence. 

She is dieting now, she's just not getting the results she was hoping for. I agree that more thought should be put into this decision. Once some time passes and Kate is made aware of all the things that go along with the surgery, she may change her mind.

[Chaos Theory]

One of the easiest things to do is arm chair parent.  We do it in real life so why shouldn't we do it with our tv shows?  Rebecca is an easy character to find flaws with because she makes so many mistakes but they aren't mistakes made out of selfishness or cruelty.  It's the exact opposite actually.  They are mistakes made out of compassion and love.  She loves Randall and wants to do the right thing for him.  It's just hard to know what the right thing is.  We see William three decades later and he is an awesome guy but what kind of guy was he during  Randall's childhood?  Did he ever slip and use?  What kind of father or even influence would he have been on Randall's life?  We just don't know and neither did Rebecca.  Do we blame her for not wanting to take that chance?  

Maybe she should have told him later.  However we don't know when Jack died.  Rebecca could have held off telling Randall for a lot of reasons including not wanting to replace Jack in Randall's heart or letting any of her kids believe a father was that easy to replace.

As people we want to make things simple and blame someone for someone else's pain.  In this case I don't think Rebecca was necessarily wrong for not telling Randall about William. She may not have been right but I don't think she was wrong either.  

Edited November 30, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Crs97]

I have two friends who have done it.  Both had serious complications from the surgery and were re-hospitalized. Both have lost the weight and kept it off, to the point that neither looks healthy anymore.  I assume they are still following up with their doctors, but both worry me, as they look older and gaunt and sickly, but both say they feel great.  Five years ago I lost 40 pounds over ten months and told hubby I still have the same body issues, just in a smaller frame.  Unfortunately I have gained it all back so am trying to get up the gumption to do it again, but so far the spirit hasn't moved me.  Unfortunately it does seem realistic that Kate's whole storyline is about her weight because it seems like when you are trying to lose it that is all you can talk about.  I never felt so shallow than those ten months when I was hyper-focused on diet and exercise.

[raiderred1]

I have given this show a chance but it is just trying too hard to be hip. Meh.  Who drinks that stuff in the fridge anyway? Come on now!  It looked disgusting, too.   And if someone is that dumb, wouldn't the rest of the family kick that guy's ass for bringing it in and having to have your brother go through the "shrooms" hallucinations.  Give me a break!

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

Does anyone know how tall Milo & Sterling actually are?

I think Milo is 5'9" or 5'10", Sterling looks to be and inch or two taller. 

[Sarah D. Bunting]

ICYMI, here's Al's post on the episode!

[GodsBeloved]

5 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

One of the easiest things to do is arm chair parent.  We do it in real life so why shouldn't we do it with our tv shows?  Rebecca is an easy character to find flaws with because she makes so many mistakes but they aren't mistakes made out of selfishness or cruelty.  It's the exact opposite actually.  They are mistakes made out of compassion and love.  She loves Randall and wants to do the right thing for him.  It's just hard to know what the right thing is.  We see Randal three decades later and he is an awesome guy but what kind of guy was he during  Randall's childhood?  Did he ever slip and use?  What kind of father or even influence would he have been on Randall's life?  We just don't know and neither did Rebecca.  Do we blame her for not wanting to take that chance?  

Maybe she should have told him later.  However we don't know when Jack died.  Rebecca could have held off telling Randall for a lot of reasons including not wanting to replace Jack in Randall's heart or letting any of her kids believe a father was that easy to replace.

As people we want to make things simple and blame someone for someone else's pain.  In this case I don't think Rebecca was necessarily wrong for not telling Randall about William. She may not have been right but I don't think she was wrong either.  

I hadn't thought of the "William replaces dead Jack" but I think that's an interesting point. Depending on their Age when Jack died, I wonder if Kate and Kevin would have reacted negatively to Randall getting his "real" dad while they are left with no dad at all.

[izabella]

I'm not buying that Rebecca kept quiet this whooooole time to avoid "William replaces dead Jack."  At some point, SHE "replaced" dead Jack with a new husband, so she could have opened her mouth then and told Randall he has a living father and his name and last known address.

Edited November 30, 2016 by izabella

[GodsBeloved]

I don't think Miguel can compare to William. Step dad vs "real" dad.

[tennisgurl]

This show, yall. It just gets me, every single week. I want to be pissed off at Rebecca, but I can understand why she did what she did. I can understand Randall and his anger and his desire to get in touch with his roots, but it also kills me that his search for his bio parents are hurting Jack and Rebecca. I`m in a glass case of emotion every single week!

I feel for little Randall and his search for his parents and his roots, I really do, but I feel like it must be really hard for Jack and Rebecca. Jack might seem to take it better, but I got the feeling that he felt pretty heart broken hearing how much Randall needed more black male role models. Not that it was wrong, but it feels like Jack is getting the message that no matter how much he loves Randall and does everything for him, he will never be enough, because his skin isn't the right color. I know thats not exactly what anyone is trying to say, but I feel like its the message people (or Jack) could get. Jack just kills me. I`m sure he wasn't perfect, but he seemed like a pretty amazing dad. No wonder the kids worship his memory so much, and why the family has so many issues now, without him around. It seems like he really was the heart of the family. 

I warmed to Olivia a bit last week, but now? She just sucks. She was insufferable throughput, especially in how she treated poor Sloan. She makes Kevin look great in comparison. At least Kevin is trying to be a better guy, and he feels bad when he acts self centered. I hate love triangles, but I am already shipping Sloan/Kevin. She seems like a much more endearing character than awful, pretentious Olivia. 

That being said, Kate was out of line with her "girls like you" thing, and Olivia was in right for calling out Kate for her family treating Kevin as the "simple" one. Thats the reason he has so many issues! Like I said, even good characters can do crappy things, and crappy characters can do good things. 

[izabella]

59 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

But it seems that Kate has been, for the most part, sticking to her diet.  She did have one lapse that we know of with the donuts in the car, but otherwise she's stuck to whatever plan she was following.  She was just frustrated that the weight was so slow in coming off.

I do agree, though, that turbulence should not be the thing that leads her to this decision.  I'm not saying she shouldn't have it--it may very well be the right thing for her--but I do wish that she put some more thought into it than a minute of handholding with a stranger.

Yes, agreed, she did stick to her diet.  But post-surgery diets are far stricter, liquid for a while and then very strict for a lifetime, some foods will be totally off limits the rest of her life, and major health complications can occur if she goes off the diet even a little bit. 

I'm not saying she shouldn't have it, either.  I just wish they would say more about it than having Kevin say, "it's dangerous."  Maybe they will get to that in future episodes, and maybe they won't.  It just leaves people with a false impression of how hard the surgery and aftermath is, especially if they know little about it, and, as I've seen in real life, that misinformation causes people to toss it out to fat people: why don't you just get the surgery already and be done with it?

[GodsBeloved]

10 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Jack might seem to take it better, but I got the feeling that he felt pretty heart broken hearing how much Randall needed more black male role models. Not that it was wrong, but it feels like Jack is getting the message that no matter how much he loves Randall and does everything for him, he will never be enough, because his skin isn't the right color. I know thats not exactly what anyone is trying to say, but I feel like its the message people (or Jack) could get.

Ageeed. And I could see it when the instructor told the fathers to join their sons and Jack didn't move until the instructor in essence gave him permission. It's sad that Jack felt he couldn't or shouldn't join his son like all the other fathers did. Now I think that's why Jack kept going when the instructor said he'd done enough. It's like he was trying to prove to everyone there that he was good enough to be Randall's father.

Edited November 30, 2016 by GodsBeloved

[panthergirl13]

16 hours ago, Empress1 said:

No "dad bod" on Milo, that's for sure. (And I maintain that his body is an anachronism. Not that I mind.)

Haven't gone through all four pages of comments yet but I don't know why people keep saying this. The whole "workout craze" started in the 80s with Jane Fonda et al.  I was an absolute gym rat in 1988 (Gold's Gym!) as was my husband at the time who had an incredible body. If it were supposed to be the 60s I'd agree with you, but the 80s were all about working out.

When I started to watch this week I thought, "I like this show, but it hasn't MOVED me since the first episode." SPOKE TOO SOON. The dojo scene just killed me dead. And the ending? "That must have been lonely." ? Hand that man an Emmy and call it a day.

[booboopbedoo]

Quote

As I understand it, you have to keep a very strict diet after the surgery, too, for a variety of reasons and not just that the weight will come back otherwise.  So if she isn't able to diet now, will she be able to diet after the surgery?  Maybe.  But worth more thought and consideration and research than an instant decision based on airplane turbulence. 

Liquids for at least 2 weeks and then slowly ease back into food. Meat can be painful and NO booze for a year.

Lovely foam burps and farting.At least in Canada.

[JudyObscure]

33 minutes ago, booboopbedoo said:

At least in Canada

LOL

I just did a little research on WebMD and it said the risk of dying within 30 days of the surgery is about one in 50. Kevin is right. Dangerous.

On the other hand, it said, if you make it through that first month,  the chance of dying over the next five years is far less than that of a seriously obese person who didn't have the surgery. I also learned that after the surgery the patient will lose 10 to 20 pounds the first year and that they feel less hungry partly because the stomach is smaller and also because less intestine means less hunger hormone going to the brain.

I'm starting to hope the actress has the surgery, not just because it would be interesting to watch and learn about, but because, it seems to my non-professional eye, that  her health really is in danger.  We're always hearing that stomach fat is the most dangerous kind and poor Chrissy seems to carry most  of her weight there.

[Court]

Chrissy said in an interview she wouldn't have the surgery.

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I don't really see how rebecca is in the wrong here. She is right. There is no paperwork to keep Randall with her family in case William decides he wants him back. She doesn't know william from a hole in the wall. All she knows is he left his son outside of a fire station which doesn't ring as exactly trustworthy behavior. 

As to the part I bolded, do you mean there is no adoption paperwork at all?  There is, because Jack said to her something like he is legally our son.  And even if he hadn't confirmed that for us, they didn't just give kids to some nice parents at the hospital, no birth certificate, etc.  If the paperwork you are referring to is the termination of parental rights, it doesn't exist because Rebecca didn't do the right thing and inform the court/her attorney of who the father was so he could officially terminate those rights.  That's how adoptions have to work, otherwise it would be too easy for kidnappings, coercion, child-selling, etc. to happen.  Of course there was a risk that he wouldn't sign, though from what we've seen, he knew he wasn't a fit parent and dropped Randall off at a firehouse (where he'd be safe) for Randall's own good. 

[GodsBeloved]

Ok so I found another reason to cry. After Jack does the push ups we see Randall on another man's back. Initially I thought that was the show giving us a picture of young William doing the push ups. After rewatching I realized that was one of the other dads. Then I wondered why another dad was lifting Randall. 

The lightbulb went off ... they build body, spirit, community. Jack is Randall's foundation and the other fathers, the community, are there to help lift Randall.

Color me an emotional mess!

[cardigirl]

3 minutes ago, GodsBeloved said:

Ok so I found another reason to cry. After Jack does the push ups we see Randall on another man's back. Initially I thought that was the show giving us a picture of young William doing the push ups. After rewatching I realized that was one of the other dads. Then I wondered why another dad was lifting Randall. 

The lightbulb went off ... they build body, spirit, community. Jack is Randall's foundation and the other fathers, the community, are there to help lift Randall.

Color me an emotional mess!

I think that was what I liked most about that scene was that the other dads were also pledging support to Randall.  

[Crs97]

Unless Rebecca was specifically asked if she knew the birth father, then she was not under a legal obligation to provide the court his information.  The court would have terminated William's rights due to abandonment and Might have charged him with child endangerment if they had known his name.

[RachelKM]

Most people have discussed the other things that struck me about this episode, except that I haven't seen anyone note the aspect of Kate and Olivia's exchange that was about Kevin.  I think Olivia is an utter asshole for (in this episode alone) 1) convincing/bullying Sloan into driving her to the cabin, 2) bringing two uninvited people, one of whom was an ex, to Kevin's family cabin, 3) cozying to said ex in front of Kevin, and 4) essentially stealing Sloan's rental car, which would be bad even without knowing it was the only way for Sloan to go to her see her sister. 

However, I feel like Kate was extremely rude in launching at Olivia and that she gave as good as she got.  And I think Olivia made an interesting observation when she said "He isn't simple" and then said the family puts Kevin in that role.  To me, that was a bit of Olivia defending Kevin against Kate's somewhat dismissive and unflattering characterization of him.  It was officious and condescending of Kate to try to run off one of Kevin's girlfriends/hookup/whatever on the grounds that she was protecting Kevin. Also condescending was her characterization of him as "simple."  She may have meant it as "straightforward and uncomplicated," but it can be taken as dumb and shallow. And even "uncomplicated" is a bit shitty since it dismisses the idea that he has complex thoughts and motivations.  

This also indicates to me that, while we've seen specific evidence of how Kate's relationship with Kevin held her back from her own life, there is evidence that Kate may have also held Kevin back too by treating him like he can't handle things.  Kevin recognized what he was doing to Kate.  I don't think Kate has examined yet how her behavior might have impacted Kevin. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by RachelKM
Reduced pronoun use for clarity.

[ShadowFacts]

7 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Unless Rebecca was specifically asked if she knew the birth father, then she was not under a legal obligation to provide the court his information.  The court would have terminated William's rights due to abandonment and Might have charged him with child endangerment if they had known his name.

Are you sure?  If a party to the adoption knows the child's paternity, or the circumstances of the abandonment, but conceals/does reveal, wouldn't that enable (of course not the case with Rebecca) child stealing, coercion, etc.?  Yes, his rights would be terminated involuntarily and maybe he would have been charged, but he may have had family (again, doesn't seem to be the case) who would been able to raise his baby.  Rebecca decided on her own to foreclose all of that.  I think she was justifiably fearful of losing Randall, but he was a child, not chattel, and she was cutting off a legal process designed to act in the best interest of the child, not of her and her desires.  Not a great call, and it's biting her now.  I feel for her, but it was preventable. 

[jeansheridan]

Quote

However, I feel like Kate was extremely rude in launching at Olivia and that she gave as good as she got.  And I think Olivia made an interesting observation when she said "He isn't simple" and then said the family puts him in that role.  To me, that was a bit of Olivia defending Kevin against Kate's somewhat dismissive and unflattering characterization of him.  It was officious and condescending of Kate to try to run off one of Kevin's girlfriends/hookup/whatever on the grounds that she was protecting Kevin. Also condescending was her characterization of him as "simple."  She may have meant it as "straightforward and uncomplicated," but it can be taken as dumb and shallow. And even "uncomplicated" is a bit shitty since it dismisses the idea that he has complex thoughts and motivations.  

Kate was a sour face the moment the other three walked in.  She's kind of a grump, really.  

I did love Kevin's how mad are you scale--decapitated Barbie dolls or marinara sauce!  If that's the worse he's ever done, he's not a bad brother.

I think what will very quickly turn me off to this show is the shallowness of the interactions.  Kate and Olivia--that was super random on Kate's part.  Olivia's response seemed very Olivia and actually I didn't think she was all that rude given she was attacked first.  

I thought Kevin's comments to Olivia were weird.  We had a great kiss.  I get you are scared.  You are hollow shell of a human being?  WHAT? Seemed nonsensical to me.

I'm also quite annoyed we did not have a proper discussion with the big three about what Rebecca did.  We saw Kate trying, but given Kevin blew it by inviting strangers, it just seemed like a lost opportunity for us to see how Kate and Kevin felt about their mother.

And poor, poor Mandy Moore in the cabin scene, rushing back and forth as the anvils dropped from the ceiling.  She looked so lost!  Poor thing just had no help there at all.  It was campy and silly looking and had no power at all.  

The dojo scene worked despite the corniness.  Sport scenes are inherently corny in my opinion so that serious talk about foundation building and community fits that kind of setting.  And I know it's an important topic and important to families and society so I will ignore the cheese.

Yep, made of stone.  Nothing about this episode moved me.  I mostly felt annoyed by the bad writing and stage direction.  "Run from wall to wall Mandy, looking frantic!"  Gah.  Poor lady.

[ClareWalks]

I find it kind of annoying that the dead character and the dying character (Jack and William) are total saints (alleged drinking problem notwithstanding), while everyone else is reasonably and appealingly flawed. I prefer when characters have nuance, so it is annoying on this show that they are writing both Jack and William to be so freakin' perfect, at least so far. It feels like the writers don't want to "speak ill of the dead," or something.

[memememe76]

Although we didn't see it, Kate did meet Olivia at the dinner the night before. I think hating on Olivia is relatively instantaneous. 

[photo fox]

I don't know how I feel about Rebecca "hiding the truth" from Randall, but she was under no moral obligation to get William to sign over his legal rights, just because she figured out who he was.  He terminated those rights when he left the baby at the fire station.  (Which, for the record, was absolutely the right thing to do and I don't judge him nearly as much as Randall does for doing it).

When Randall was eight, 18, or 30, and William was apparently "clean", I can see the argument that Rebecca should have done something differently.  But when she first met him when Randall was a baby, he was a drug addict who willingly gave up his kid (for the best).  I have no problem with Rebecca not inviting that person to have a place in her child's future.

[After7Only]

9 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I know a woman who got pregnant in1968 while she was in college.  Everyone,  doctors, family, friends, magazines, and her sociology classes told her to give the baby up for adoption, that any other decision would be selfish and the child would have a poor, stigmatized life.  Now, this show, seems to be saying just the opposite.  Randall was never happy because his real life parents had given him up.  Potential adoptive parents are hearing that you will always be in danger of losing the child you've given your heart to, that he will always long for his biological parents.  Jack's is the saddest story of all, to me.  He has been the best dad in the world, but, according to the show,  it wasn't enough, he wasn't able to teach Randall the things he needed to know because his skin wasn't the right color.  It's just depressing to me.

I don't think Jack's skin color is why he wasn't "enough".  It was that Randall wanted to know his biological parents.  He felt that he was a replacement for the triplet that died and not a full member of the family.  I think he would still have had many of the same issues and feelings of "otherness" if he had been adopted by a black family.  The fact that his adopted family was white just added another layer of "otherness" for him.    

5 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Bolding is mine.  Who would be happy about discovering a horrible biological parent and wouldn't understand the parent who raised them keeping that secret?  It's more dramatically satisfying for the story to have William turn out to be a great person who recovered from the circumstances that led to him needing to abandon his son.  Randall wound up very fortunate with the family he wound up growing up with and how much they loved him.  There is still the flip side of his coin where you see the tragedy and the pain he didn't get the privilege of growing up knowing the love of his birth parents.  Given what we know about William I'm going to guess there's much more to recommend his birth mother than dying by overdose after giving birth to your son might suggest.  I'm grateful Randall had the love of his family, but I mourn what he missed with his birth family at the same time.  

Randall's very first scene is of him on William's doorstep.  He went there expecting the worst, prepared to be rejected.   But was pleasantly surprised that William wasn't what he was expected.  That being said, even if William had been a horrible guy, Randall still would have been upset that his mother kept him a secret.  Randall wasn't looking for a dad when he went looking for William, he already had one.  He just wanted to know where he came from, good, bad or indifferent.    

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, memememe76 said:

Although we didn't see it, Kate did meet Olivia at the dinner the night before. I think hating on Olivia is relatively instantaneous. 

Yes, and I think we can assume that they spent *some* time together between T-day dinner and the cabin, even if it was sitting at a table and witnessing an uncomfortable family argument.

I rewatched the episode today and, I've got to say, I'm totally on team Kate in this battle.  Olivia barged in on their weekend (sort of invited by Kevin, but bringing along two other guests.  Well, one guest and one hostage, really), and immediately started with the disparaging remarks about the cabin, the games, etc.  Yeah, Kate probably made too much of an assumption about Olivia (but I feel she was right-on with it), but I think Kate was annoyed not only with Olivia, but also with how Kevin was behaving in the company of Olivia (which was kind of pathetic, really).  

While there might have been some truth in what Olivia said to Kate, it was said with such hate and pomposity that it negates any possible goodwill (ha!). Plus, I still believe that Olivia looked at Kate, made a stereotypical judgment and followed that up with a stereotypical rant.  Kate, on the other hand, at least has the fact that Olivia was generally being a bad guest and rude to her host (Kevin) on her side.

[possibilities]

This episode was the most pro-drug message I've ever seen on TV.

[ShadowFacts]

We're certain to see Olivia again because of the play.  Before this episode I had thought maybe Kevin would be so far over his head with a serious Broadway play that he would bomb, and we would see him figure out what's next.   Now I'm hoping he pulls a rabbit out of his hat and makes a success of it, and totally overshadows that insufferable woman.  It was disconcerting to me that she inserted herself into this interlude where the siblings could have dealt more with the really big bombshell that just hit their family.  Kevin should have just nixed it. 

[JudyObscure]

50 minutes ago, After7Only said:

10 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Jack's is the saddest story of all, to me.  He has been the best dad in the world, but, according to the show,  it wasn't enough, he wasn't able to teach Randall the things he needed to know because his skin wasn't the right color.  It's just depressing to me.

I don't think Jack's skin color is why he wasn't "enough".  It was that Randall wanted to know his biological parents.  He felt that he was a replacement for the triplet that died and not a full member of the family.  I think he would still have had many of the same issues and feelings of "otherness" if he had been adopted by a black family.  The fact that his adopted family was white just added another layer of "otherness" for him.    

In the scene where Rebecca and Milo are talking to little Randall's friend's mother, she says something to the effect that Randall needs to have more black men in his life so that he can have someone to emulate and so he will be able to picture himself in their roles.  Jack's face looked very sad after she said that and I thought he must be wondering why Randall couldn't picture himself doing the same job that he did.

I think the replacement triplet thing is another issue and not what they were discussing at first or the reason for taking the martial arts class.

This whole idea that if you adopt a child from a different culture, you need to teach them about that culture, is not something I completely agree with.  I have a friend who adopted a little girl from China.  She has always hated to hear her parents talk about her bio-parents in another country and she absolutely refuses to wear anything, or eat anything "Chinese."  She is frightened by the very idea of this far away world and wants nothing more than to be just an ordinary American girl.  All this may change when she's grown-up, but for now her parents have decided to put the culture lessons aside. So with Randall, I wonder if some of these things just increase his feeling of otherness.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

8 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

In the scene where Rebecca and Milo are talking to little Randall's friend's mother, she says something to the effect that Randall needs to have more black men in his life so that he can have someone to emulate and so he will be able to picture himself in their roles.  Jack's face looked very sad after she said that and I thought he must be wondering why Randall couldn't picture himself doing the same job that he did.

I think the replacement triplet thing is another issue and not what they were discussing at first or the reason for taking the martial arts class.

I agree.  Yvette was saying that Randall needed black role models.

 

9 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

This whole idea that if you adopt a child from a different culture, you need to teach them about that culture, is not something I completely agree with.  I have a friend who adopted a little girl from China.  She has always hated to hear her parents talk about her bio-parents in another country and she absolutely refuses to wear anything, or eat anything "Chinese."  She is frightened by the very idea of this far away world and wants nothing more than to be just an ordinary American girl.  All this may change when she's grown-up, but for now her parents have decided to put the culture lessons aside. So with Randall, I wonder if some of these things just increase his feeling of otherness.

If I understand you correctly, I disagree. Randall had clearly been seeking out black people, and even keeping a list of them since before the pool episode.  I don't know that he wanted to immerse himself in African-American culture, but he clearly was interested in finding people with whom he perceived he had something in common.

[Guncle Adam]

I know young William was played by a younger actor last night. But am I imagining that Ron Cephas Jones played younger William at some point?

[HeyThere83]

Snickered to myself earlier today thinking this could also be titled: "This Is What Rebecca Did To Us." 

Sigh....I'm sure there will be some shocking "twsit" coming later with Jack, but there is a strategic reason for waiting and giving him all these types of scenes now. Same for Miguel. It's a cop-out to me. Is it just easier to point all fingers at Rebecca? Or is it to have fewer characters that are "dirtied up"? Since nobody can be *too* unpleasant. Except for in the case of certain plot devices aka supporting characters Olivia, Miguel. I mean, why not give at least one issue that Jack was responsible for....and then give the other 50 to Rebecca? Or one to William? And 49 to Rebecca? Or make Jack alive? Or William not dying? That to me would not be taking the easy way out. 

I doubt Olivia is gone for good, and that's fine by me if for no reason other than she's a little break from the sort of saccharine blending of the other characters. And she is better at conveying something below the surface than her love interest is and he supposedly has one of the big issues on the show. Which I'm so confused hearing Olivia and Kate discussing him because how, when, where did she get to know him and can the audience see at least some of it. And can I also see something about Kevin's deep dark complex issues if there are going to be discussions about it and Kevin is going to continue whining about them? Also, I can't take seriously people analyzing each other and claiming to know them so well when they have not even shared scenes or had conversations prior to that. 

I think if there were less time spent trying to create scenes that make people cry and say awwwwwww, there might be more time for that sort of thing. Or to show what leads up to the realizations people have, or to follow up dramatic moments or confrontations.

Having said all of that....I did think the push-ups scene was sweet and the cute little Randall brushing Jack's hair out of his face at the end. First time I actually did say awww at this show. 

[wonderwoman]

12 hours ago, luna1122 said:

This show has never made me cry yet--and I'm not dead inside, I actually cry pretty easily, but UO:  this show, while I really like it and never miss it, often feels way too manipulative and DESIGNED specifically to make me cry, so I don't--but I almost did last nite, when William got Rebecca's letter. That was sort of devastating.

 

See, now that's how I felt about Parenthood. But here, I'm not feeling manipulated; the scenes feel organic and authentic. And while I'm not sobbingl;  I have been moved. 

[Tiger]

42 minutes ago, ajs1615 said:

I know young William was played by a younger actor last night. But am I imagining that Ron Cephas Jones played younger William at some point?

Okay, so it wasnt just me.  I was fairly certain Jones had played 1980 William in the episode where we first learned he and Rebecca knew each other, and then I think one other time. 

[Biggie B]

Quote

I know young William was played by a younger actor last night. But am I imagining that Ron Cephas Jones played younger William at some point?

Ron Cephas Jones' name was shown in the opening credits (or whatever you call it when they flash the actors' names on the screen as the show begins).

[Anela]

Where do I find what Olivia did to Sloane? I mean, which episode, if there was something before last night? I haven't seen all of the episodes. 

Thanks. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Anela

[OtterMommy]

1 minute ago, Anela said:

Where do I find what Olivia did to Sloane? I mean, which episode, if there was something before last night? I haven't seen all of the episodes. 

Thanks. 

It was in this episode.  It wasn't so much what Olivia *did* to Sloane--but Olivia knew that Sloane didn't feel she could turn her down and exploited the situation.

Sloane hadn't been on the show much before this, but I think the message was pretty clear that Olivia had a long standing diva reputation.

[SueB]

10 hours ago, GodsBeloved said:

So why is Randall drinking from strange cups? He knows it isn't his. Did he think Kate or Kevin brought it and he'd take a swig without asking them?

Randall was in the kitchen when man-bun brought the snacks in, put the smoothie container in the fridge and then man-bun "plenty for everyone".  So, it could be just that Randall loves his morning smoothie and decided to drink some. But... IMO .... the REAL reason?  He was pissed at man-bun for showing up and calling the cabin quaint so he drank his smoothie.  Of course the reason man-bun said "plenty for everyone" was because he expected everyone to have a SMALL amount.  Randall, being the sassy guy that he is, drank half the container. 

I gotta say, Kevin and Kate looking at him and Kevin kinda getting in his face was pretty funny.  I would have LOVED to listen to the car conversation as Kate and Kevin explained the shrooms shake. 

[DearEvette]

22 minutes ago, SueB said:

Randall was in the kitchen when man-bun brought the snacks in, put the smoothie container in the fridge and then man-bun "plenty for everyone".  So, it could be just that Randall loves his morning smoothie and decided to drink some.

At the very top of the show, while Randall is writing his "Rebecca list" there is a container of some awful healthy looking smoothie in a similar size container.  So either he brought his own (and we didn't see it) and he confused he two or he took the guy at his word and tasted some of his smoothie cuz it is just the sort of thing Randall would drink.

[OtterMommy]

6 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

At the very top of the show, while Randall is writing his "Rebecca list" there is a container of some awful healthy looking smoothie in a similar size container.  So either he brought his own (and we didn't see it) and he confused he two or he took the guy at his word and tasted some of his smoothie cuz it is just the sort of thing Randall would drink.

I didn't catch that, but it makes sense.  Randall is, I would think, a smoothie person.  And, let's face it, he was a bit out of sorts at the cabin before the trip anyway, so I could see how that would happen.