S01.E05: The Game Plan

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

Apparently this episode had the entire cast bawling during the table read, according to an interview I heard with Mandy Moore. 

I'd say I must be made of stone but I tear up all the time, sometimes at commercials.  But never during this show.  

15 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I really am trying to like Toby, but the man has no boundaries and apparently couldn't listen to one simple request from Kate. She said she wanted alone time. And what does he do? He pesters her and keeps asking until she gives in. Then he invites a friend over without telling her beforehand. And then he pauses in the middle of the game. And then he goes over to Kate's to NOT apologize.

And then when Kate shows him the urn, instead of saying something comforting and understanding he blurts out an accusing, ridiculous, "What?!?  That's your DAD?!?!"  As if she has once again offended him in some awful manner.  

But a worse offense to me was Randall chastising Beth for not informing him immediately of... what, something with her medications possibly interacting?  And then in the next sentence revealing to her for the first time his plan for an early retirement for them both in Charleston.  

5 hours ago, PRgal said:

Never, ever, ever pause ANYTHING live.  Not just games (especially playoffs/finals), but debates and even award shows.  Except, maybe, a kooky ABC musical (which usually sucks compared to a live stage production or the movie). 

This is a revelation to me that people don't pause some TV.  I never, ever watch anything live.  I don't understand what difference it makes if I'm cheering for the TD 12 minutes after the stadium cheered?  Or 2 days, if I avoid spoilers?  

I've like Hartley all along.  He's great eye candy and his acting isn't bad.  I believed him as a gay man on Revenge and a doctor with a shoe fetish on Mistresses.  

Ugh, more bathroom sex.  Is it just me?  

I don't love that Rebecca went from not wanting any kids to choosing to adopt a third with twins, but it's more believable than all the bathroom sex I see on TV, to be honest.  

Edited October 26, 2016 by Guest

[PRgal]

Just now, Winston9-DT3 said:

 

This is a revelation to me that people don't pause some TV.  I never, ever watch anything live.  I don't understand what difference it makes if I'm cheering for the TD 12 minutes after the stadium cheered?  Or 2 days, if I avoid spoilers?  

I've like Hartley all along.  He's great eye candy and his acting isn't bad.  I believed him as a gay man on Revenge and a doctor with a shoe fetish on Mistresses.  

Well, if you avoid your phone/tablet/computer, then I guess you can go ahead and pause TV.  It's really just a live thing for me (and probably most people).  I'll go ahead and record "normal" TV shows (even if I could watch it online the next day).  

[topanga]

21 minutes ago, marymon said:

Toby bothered me by complaining about the breakfast he got (again).

But that pales in comparison to pausing a game.

I thought he was complaining about the food itself--not the fact that Kate brought it to him. They must be in a program that has specific food guidelines. 

 

9 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Ugh, more bathroom sex.  Is it just me?  

I don't love that Rebecca went from not wanting any kids to choosing to adopt a third with twins, but it's more believable than all the bathroom sex I see on TV, to be honest.  

Heh. And the women always act like it's the best sex they've ever had in their lives. "Do it to me, Sheldon. You're an animal, Sheldon."

Or maybe I've just never had mind-blowing whoopie while standing up. 

At the very least, wouldn't the small bathroom in a crowded sports bar smell like pee--or worse?

[Tdoc72]

Burning questions:

1--How does Jack die?

2--Where does/did Kevin sleep at Randall's house?

3--What happened to William's cat?

 

I think Randall & Beth would've had even better louder shower sex after the relief of not being pregnant. ;-)

I don't understand the not pausing a football game thing. I mean, that's what pause is for. So you can pick right up where you left off. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by Tdoc72

[PRgal]

2 minutes ago, Tdoc72 said:

Burning questions:

1--How does Jack die?

2--Where does/did Kevin sleep at Randall's house?

3--What happened to William's cat?

 

I think Randall & Beth would've had even better louder shower sex after the relief of not being pregnant. ;-)

I don't understand the not pausing a football game thing. I mean, that's what pause is for. So you can pick right up where you left off. 

I bet Kevin sleeps on the couch.  Or maybe there IS a spare room...in the basement and Randall didn't have the heart to send is birth father down there. 

The pause button on your cable/satellite remote is for regular, non-live television.  Like if you want to pause a certain scene while watching This is Us.  Because non-live TV doesn't matter as much. 

[WhosThatGirl]

I would say Toby bothered me so much in this episode, more than any other episode with him. I was pretty neutral on him, honestly didn't care much for his and Kate's story but I digress. This episode though.. Kate stated she wanted to watch the game alone, it's something she does. Let her be. Then he gives her a handmade invitation to guilt her into going over to his house and watching it. Also he invites a random friend over and then decides instead of watching the game, it's going to be time to tell Kate all about fun stories him and said friend had together. I don't know. Kate made it clear she wanted to be alone anyway on this day, I don't understand why that can't be enough of an explanation.

This episode didn't make me cry like I expected it too, like I said I wasn't surprised or gut punched to find out Jack was dead.  Something tells me Miguel's wife Shelly passed away somewhere between Rebecca being pregnant and the kids being 8, it explains his attitude towards Jack in the bar during episode 2("you married out of your league", etc). 

[JenE4]

Randall is my spirit animal. Week after week, I'm just captivated by his acting and storylines. He's absolutely my favorite character on TV right now, and I have a major "parenting crush" on him and Beth. I've been home for a week after a two-week-long, 10-year anniversary vacation with my husband, so I could TOTALLY relate to his giddiness over actually being alone at a hotel with his wife ("CALL US! [whispers] Don't call us.") and searching Zillow for the dream retirement house close to interesting restaurants. But, for as much as he's counting the years to the empty nest someday, he's a REALLY good dad--like father-of-the-year-level parenting skills.

Didn't we all know that Jack was dead? As I mentioned, I was out of the country and just caught up on these last three episodes, but I thought we all assumed Jack was dead because of the reference to him in past tense in episode 1 and because of Rebecca wearing the necklace in episode 2? I mean, I suppose it wasn't confirmed, but it definitely didn't come as a surprise.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I bet Kevin sleeps on the couch.  Or maybe there IS a spare room...in the basement and Randall didn't have the heart to send is birth father down there. 

The pause button on your cable/satellite remote is for regular, non-live television.  Like if you want to pause a certain scene while watching This is Us.  Because non-live TV doesn't matter as much. 

The house has to have spare bedrooms, though I did have a large, 3-bedroom house once.  The writers just put William in the cutesy girl's room to make it more heart wrenching.  

So you guys who do not pause live tv... you watch the commercials?  Ick.  Do you also have sex in public bathrooms?  ; )

Edited October 26, 2016 by Guest

[buckboard]

34 minutes ago, Tdoc72 said:

Burning questions:
...........

I don't understand the not pausing a football game thing. I mean, that's what pause is for. So you can pick right up where you left off. 

You pause when YOU want to stop a show to talk about something or go to the bathroom or whatever.  Toby was being terribly disrespectful of Kate, who was into following the game.  Watching the game was very important to her.  She didn't come over to his place to chat with his Toby and his friend.  She wanted to watch the game.   

Edited October 26, 2016 by buckboard

[meep.meep]

Yes, we watch the commercials.  Or, we take the opportunity to go to the bathroom.  Watching sports is different than watching regular TV programs. 

I loved the gal's endless story about what she did with the food from the meeting.  I wonder if it was improvised.

[izabella]

We pause live sports all the time.   And rewind a million times if something happened that we want a closer look at.  And then catch up when there are commercials, or not.  It doesn't matter at all if you see a play 3 minutes after it happened.  Don't get the fuss about that.  I think the pause/rewind of live sports action was one of the big marketing pushes when DVR's came out. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

 I actually like that Kevin's so socially awkward and Toby's extremely confident with a side of jerk to him. I think actors are perceived to be confident and all that, but I've heard of several who are awkward in real life. We don't know when or why Kevin got into acting, but acting is being able to be a different person. Plus, it gives Kevin a lot more layers to work with. He can be more relatable, which is good. They are giving Kevin more time to be fleshed out and his journey will definitely annoy some because of how long it might take and how subtle it is, but I'm in for now. At least, I think his story is more subtle than Kate's or Randall's.

I rewatched and if you listen to the dialogue during that scene, it's Kevin talking about the future, "years from now" and death, so it definitely is telling the audience that this is a flashforward. I didn't pick that up on the first watch. 

I rarely find that confidence matches up with looks in real life, so I'm with you on this point for sure.  Kevin being more outwardly insecure and Toby being psycho , I find realistic enough.  I don't find Toby confident I find him kind of psycho.  No offense meant.  I'm all about my boundaries.

Some of the most beautiful people I've ever met are very insecure whereas I am often attracted to people who are not conventional Brad Pitt handsome but exude a certain air, charm, or confidence.  I'm sure I'm not alone.  Confidence can come from experience rather than outward appearance.  Some people have been beautiful their whole lives; others have never been; others have turned from beautiful to average and the reverse.  It happens.  Through these experiences confidence may either dwindle or never go away or never be found, or be found later in life.

I'm a crazy baseball fan and I watch games hours late sometimes too, sometimes the next morning.  And I avoid social media and gossips who I know will try to tell me the score before I can view it.  I love the pause and rewind buttons.  I pause things all the time, I'm that crazy that I don't want to miss a second while in the bathroom.   To each his/her own.  I think some of us just found Toby rude and dismissive of Kate's major passion in a few different ways.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[WhosThatGirl]

My whole fuss about Toby pausing the show was not that he paused tv, as in a DVR watching and always pause, it was that he paused it to then put a hold on this experience to have his friend share stories of Toby and his old adventurers. Which Kate wasn't here for that. 

[luna1122]

44 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

The house has to have spare bedrooms, though I did have a large, 3-bedroom house once.  The writers just put William in the cutesy girl's room to make it more heart wrenching.  

So you guys who do not pause live tv... you watch the commercials?  Ick.  Do you also have sex in public bathrooms?  ; )

You read the room first, I think. Ask if it's okay to pause, don't do it during a big moment just to tell some story. We chat during tv shows, but not so much that you'd miss a plot point or dialog. That's just annoying. I sometimes watch commercials, some of them are funny. Or we talk thru them. I also hate people who just drop by and I don't answer the door, I don't really care who they are. And I've been known to have sex in a bathroom at a party or a bar, when I was younger. Now it mostly seems too uncomfortable and not worth the effort. I'm old.

It's killing me that they haven't gone and gotten Clooney. Poor kitty.

[Guest]

I would just assume it was one of those unseen things... they took the cat to someone who can take care of him, and maybe got William some more of his stuff, maybe even vacated the apartment, since he apparently dies at Randall's.  

[RachelKM]

1 minute ago, WhosThatGirl said:

My whole fuss about Toby pausing the show was not that he paused tv, as in a DVR watching and always pause, it was that he paused it to then put a hold on this experience to have his friend share stories of Toby and his old adventurers. Which Kate wasn't here for that. 

That's a very good point.  I happen to prefer my Live TV live. And up and pausing my game without warning would seriously annoy me (particularly just as a play was starting).  But the fact that he did so to ask his friend to tell a story that was utterly unrelated to the game that could literally be told any other time was particularly egregious and dismissive of how obviously invested Kate was in the game.

[tennisgurl]

Man, I was totally on Toby's side last week, but he was driving me up the wall this week. Dude, boundaries exist for a reason! All she said was she wanted to watch the game alone. Why did he think that was an invitation to make this into a sports party? She made it super clear that she wanted to be alone, and he wouldn't back off. Last week did add some depth to his character, and I do think I get him more, but I wish we could get an episode without him. 

I figured Jack was dead, but I did tear up just a bit when we saw the urn. I wonder when/how it happened? Were the kids young, or was it when they were adults? I mean, I guess I`m glad he didn't turn out to be a drunk or estranged from her family, but still. Its going to make his flashbacks a little more depressing. 

Rebecca the super sports fan was pretty adorable, even if that conversation was during the superbowl was REALLY awkward. They really never brought this up before? Really? 

I liked all the stuff with Kevin and the super cute kids. I thought Justin did really well with the last speech, and did succeed in giving him some more layers. Plus, I didn't think he was super jerky in this episode (not as much as last week),and more just came off as kind of awkward. 

Good episode, but not quite as good as last week. 

[Rover]

Just wanted to pop in to say I love this show! Finally, something worthwhile to watch on TV thanks to the outstanding cast. I did get a sense this week we're going to start seeing the not so lovable sides to the characters (i.e. pushy/demanding Toby and the rather icy Beth).

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I don't love that Rebecca went from not wanting any kids to choosing to adopt a third with twins, but it's more believable than all the bathroom sex I see on TV, to be honest.  

Honestly I was a little irked with that (Rebecca's "change of mind," not the bathroom sex). I'm really kind of sick of seeing female characters on TV not wanting to have children all of sudden "seeing the light" about them.  Now, I get that Rebecca having children is a crucial element of this show, but I would have much rather it had been that he had wanted them all along or maybe had infertility issues or whatever, than her all of a sudden changing her mind about motherhood.  There are many women who, for whatever perfectly reasonable reason, just don't want to be mothers--and I'm tired of TV shows treating that like a character defect.

[RachelKM]

2 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Honestly I was a little irked with that (Rebecca's "change of mind," not the bathroom sex). I'm really kind of sick of seeing female characters on TV not wanting to have children all of sudden "seeing the light" about them.  Now, I get that Rebecca having children is a crucial element of this show, but I would have much rather it had been that he had wanted them all along or maybe had infertility issues or whatever, than her all of a sudden changing her mind about motherhood.  There are many women who, for whatever perfectly reasonable reason, just don't want to be mothers--and I'm tired of TV shows treating that like a character defect.

This bothered me too.  But as one of those women who chose not to and continues to choose not to have children, I've become used to it.  You wouldn't believe how many stupid questions I get about not having kids.  It literally blows many people's minds when they find out I actually like children and voluntarily hang out with my friends' kids (generally with the friends present, but I'm down to babysit on occasion to give my friend a opportunity for a date night).  That's right. I like kids and do not want kids.  I just never felt the impulse and I like my life.

However, yes, as used to it as I am, I would rather them not have a woman be averse to having children only to admit she really truly does or otherwise be cured of this defect.  

[twoods]

I cried during Kevin's speech, and at Randall packing William's things in the future when he dies. So sad...then the previews for next week floored me again. I love how Jack was a terrific father, and how he's there for his kids. I don't want to see flashbacks of his death because it would be too heartbreaking.

Oh Toby, you do not pause live sports! I still like him.

The girls are absolutely adorable. I love their relationship with Kevin. I also liked his scenes with William.

[photo fox]

I think it would have worked a lot better - and made Jack look less clueless - if Rebecca said, "you know I didn't want kids YET."  Instead, he looks like a bit of an idiot who doesn't listen to his wife, and she looks like a waffle who will change her mind on such a huge decision in the course of a couple of quarters. 

[Lady Calypso]

36 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I figured Jack was dead, but I did tear up just a bit when we saw the urn. I wonder when/how it happened? Were the kids young, or was it when they were adults? I mean, I guess I`m glad he didn't turn out to be a drunk or estranged from her family, but still. Its going to make his flashbacks a little more depressing. 

As someone else pointed out, in Kate's story to Toby, she mentioned getting back into watching football with her dad in 2006. So the strong assumption there is that he died sometime in 2005. 

1 minute ago, photo fox said:

I think it would have worked a lot better - and made Jack look less clueless - if Rebecca said, "you know I didn't want kids YET."  Instead, he looks like a bit of an idiot who doesn't listen to his wife, and she looks like a waffle who will change her mind on such a huge decision in the course of a couple of quarters. 

What I appreciate is that Rebecca, I think during their argument in the bar said that she wasn't there "yet". I mean, it was definitely late, but I can see Jack as hopeful that she would change her mind at some point. It's a little unfair, but I can see his logic there. 

I don't think Rebecca changed her mind about kids by the end of the episode. At least, not completely. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Rebecca was open to the discussion and the fact that she wanted to want to have kids. I know that she said that she pictured her and Jack with kids, but I think she was still hesitant and less excited than Jack was. Plus, we know that the triplets weren't planned. I think there's a possibility of us seeing Rebecca's journey through her pregnancy to have her accept the idea of kids and wanting them by the time Kate and Kevin are born. 

[mojoween]

Story time is for commercials Toby, God.  Especially when the QB is dropping back for a long pass.

Jack's urn is black and gold.  Nice touch.

Stillers still suck though.  Why couldn't the show be based in NY?

I don't personally see Kevin's hotness.  He's not a classical good-looking guy to me.  Sterling and Milo? Yes.  Justin?  Not so much.

I hope Kate moves from Cali so she is with everyone soon.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think Milo is sooooooooooo hot but I was such a fan of Jess on Gilmore Girls and Sterling was sooooo adorable as Chris Darden it kind of hurts.

But to me Justin Hartley has that conventional look that a lot of my friends would go for, LOL.  I certainly see that he's good-looking but I like something a bit off-kilter or imperfect.  I think he does have that classic look, personally, but this stuff is so subjective.  Mandy Moore is classically good-looking also, she looks like a shiny apple or something and I mean that in a good way.  She's so pretty and easy to look at.

I guess I don't mind Jack pushing the issue about kids because I found a couple fighting in a bar when emotions were running high pretty realistic.  And I think Jack is that spontaneous, passionate guy who doesn't plan or think things through.  I mean it's Milo so I wonder if I see it through that hot lens....  I hope I'm not being a hypocrite by not being turned off by his 'pushiness'... 

Edited October 26, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Brinny]

Beth and Randall were LIFE in this episode. SO GOOD. 

And I've always been a Justin Hartley fan, so no surprise that I enjoyed Kevin's storyline and his interaction with his/Randall's family. Those girls are really presh.

As for the whole Toby and Kate stuff? Yeah, Imma just leave this here:

 

[PRgal]

Now I want to know what happened to Miguel's first wife.

[chocolatine]

29 minutes ago, Brinny said:

As for the whole Toby and Kate stuff? Yeah, Imma just leave this here:

 

I hate so much about the things that Toby chooses to be.

Edited October 26, 2016 by chocolatine

[Haleth]

Some observations:

Maybe the additional bedrooms at Randall & Beth's house haven't been furnished for guests.  (Just suggesting.)

Kevin's self doubt mirrors Rebecca's.  

A couple times the camera lingered on Toby's face and I noticed he has the creepy, icy eyes of an smoldering Jack Nicholson.  Creepy.  (Hmm, can icy eyes smolder?)

With all the talk about ghosts and dead people, can this be considered their very special Halloween episode?  :)

Edited October 26, 2016 by Haleth

[femmefan1946]

First of all, you're supposed to talk about whether or not you want kids BEFORE you get married.

As I recall the episode, they did have the conversation, and both agreed they did not want children. So Jack's position was a new one-- and seems to have come out of nowhere to Rebecca. Enough that she left the bar and sat outside in the cold until Jack joined her.

And it's Rebecca that would be doing the heavy lifting-- even before learning there would be triplets.

[DrSpaceman73]

5 hours ago, kris4n6 said:

The kids were 8 in the episode where he quit drinking, so around 9 years or so between these two episodes.

I could forgive Toby pausing the game if he had waited for a commercial.  Or at least for the freaking end of the play!!!  Roethisberger had just thrown a pass, why the hell pause it at that exact moment for some stupid story???

I have a friend that pauses games all the time - but more she'll pause it at the beginning while we're getting food and such ready and then we can ffwd commercials.  Which is usually ok (except for when she decides to check her fantasy league in the middle, or during the Super Bowl when we all overrode her objections and there was no pausing allowed).

You're right, I was thinking they were still younger during that episode. 

Makes me wonder what happened in between 1980 and the second episode in terms of their alcohol use. 

[Blackie]

8 hours ago, AzraelKay said:

fyi, for those wondering about William's status after last night, This is what creater Dan Fogelman said in an interview:

 "The William part of it is meant to be this almost metaphysical glimpse at a hypothetical future. Ron Cephas Jones, the actor, is very much alive in episode 6, for instance, in present day. But we have this ominous thing looming in some kind of distant or near-distant future."

I feel like this show jumped the shark on episode 5,  It was going along nicely letting the story unfold, letting us get to know the characters and then they had to do a terrible soliloquy linking the past with the future as if we. the viewers. don't know that the past is linked to the present and to the future.  I know most feel this revealed part of Kevin's personality but it seemed awkward and forced and not a conversation I believed.  Too bad, I liked this show up too now. 

[DrSpaceman73]

Yes you can pause live sports at times, but not IN THE MIDDLE OF A LIVE PLAY.  Commercials, rewind to watch, kick offs, time outs, sure, but not in the middle of a play. 

7 minutes ago, femmefan1946 said:

First of all, you're supposed to talk about whether or not you want kids BEFORE you get married.

As I recall the episode, they did have the conversation, and both agreed they did not want children. So Jack's position was a new one-- and seems to have come out of nowhere to Rebecca. Enough that she left the bar and sat outside in the cold until Jack joined her.

And it's Rebecca that would be doing the heavy lifting-- even before learning there would be triplets.

I think Rebecca's "change of heart" about Terry Bradshaw was supposed to parallel her changing her mind about having kids, as corny as that sounds

[ClareWalks]

5 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

 

Yes you can pause live sports at times, but not IN THE MIDDLE OF A LIVE PLAY.  Commercials, rewind to watch, kick offs, time outs, sure, but not in the middle of a play. 

 

And on third down, at that! Who DOES that?! For those who don't watch football and don't get it, that's like you're watching the Oscars with someone and they're saying "and the winner for Best Actress goes to..."-PAUSE- "Hey guys, wanna hear a stupid anecdote about some spring break vacation I took ten years ago? Wanna hear it RIGHT NOW?!"

[Tiger]

I really need Beth to meet Toby and do what she does best.  

Barring that, the show will have to do a crossover with Grimm and have Jack's ghost haunt him, or a crossover with Timeless and have late 1970's Jack punch him.

Because it took me almost 10 years at 240 per year to hate General Hospital's Sonny Corinthos as much as I hate Toby after siz weeks at five total episodes.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Tiger

[Enigma X]

6 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

For me they're not mistakes but his whole personality.

I have just not ever been a fan of Toby's.  I can't believe it's the same actor who played Benny in Stranger Things because I really liked him as Benny and was even attracted to him, which is so hard to believe against how I see Toby.  Pretty good acting.

Wait...he and Benny are one in the same. My strong dislike for Toby has ruined my like for Benny.

[Guatemama3641]

I've been searching for the end dialogue where Kevin is talking to the girls, but I can't find it :(. I loved it and was bawling like a baby. 

[SueB]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I rarely find that confidence matches up with looks in real life, so I'm with you on this point for sure.  Kevin being more outwardly insecure and Toby being psycho , I find realistic enough.  I don't find Toby confident I find him kind of psycho.  No offense meant.  I'm all about my boundaries.

Some of the most beautiful people I've ever met are very insecure whereas I am often attracted to people who are not conventional Brad Pitt handsome but exude a certain air, charm, or confidence.  I'm sure I'm not alone.  Confidence can come from experience rather than outward appearance.  Some people have been beautiful their whole lives; others have never been; others have turned from beautiful to average and the reverse.  It happens.  Through these experiences confidence may either dwindle or never go away or never be found, or be found later in life.

I'm a crazy baseball fan and I watch games hours late sometimes too, sometimes the next morning.  And I avoid social media and gossips who I know will try to tell me the score before I can view it.  I love the pause and rewind buttons.  I pause things all the time, I'm that crazy that I don't want to miss a second while in the bathroom.   To each his/her own.  I think some of us just found Toby rude and dismissive of Kate's major passion in a few different ways.

First line of the book Gone With the Wind: "Scarlett O'Hara was not beautiful, but men seldom noticed when once enraptured by her charms as the Tarleton twins were."  Of course the movie made her drop dead gorgeous... but you get the idea.

Edited October 27, 2016 by SueB
punctuation

[3girlsforus]

I completely agree with those who would be bugged by pausing live TV. I would never do that during a football game. BUT.... this was Toby's house. He gets to do whatever he wants with the remote. It was super annoying of him to push Kate into watching the game at his house but she's a grown up and could have just said no. Pausing live TV isn't a universal no-no. It's a matter of preference and it was clear it never occurred to him there were people who would find that annoying - just like there are people on this board who wouldn't think twice about doing it. 

Toby is pushy and annoying but Kate is whiny and a creepy stalker. They are made for each other. UGH. 

[Calamity Jane]

9 hours ago, Trillian said:

I'm going to defend Toby (whom, I will admit, I do rather like), because I think this plot line is where the show gets a little too contrived in the name of having a twist at the end.  Because, basically, I don't understand why she kept her father's death from him.  Why would that be a big secret worthy of the dramatic reveal - except for the fact that the writers wanted a big reveal?

In real life, she could've, and should've and (I think) would've, said "I used to watch the games with my father, and, since he died, I like to watch alone because [pick one or find another]: I feel like we're still watching together/I'm honouring his memory/I find it depressing that he's not with me".  She could even have added "I don't even let Kevin join me for games" and that would've stopped him cold.  And THEN, if he kept at it, he could be declared to be an ass.  

I find it a little bizarre that it had never come up in the first place that her dad is dead. These two are dating and not just f-buddies.  He had already told her he had been married before and he's met her brother, and she's met his aunt, so family talk must have come up (they must occasionally talk about something other than their weight, don't they?).  But, even if it hadn't,  it makes no sense that she wouldn't have given it as the reason for not watching with him because having a deceased parent is not a deep dark secret to which adults don't like to admit in public.

So, I blame the writers and not Toby (as if Toby has an existence independent of the writers! but, you know what I mean - I hope).  If they were going to have her act so weird about not telling him, they had to have him act so weird about getting it out of her.  And that contrivance disappointed me a little, since I otherwise pretty much worship the ground this show walks on.

I don't know for sure what the writers were thinking, but my husband died - after a long and horribly painful illness - when my kids were 9 and 16, and neither one of them tells people about that for a long, long time after meeting them, even when it seems odd to me that they don't (for instance friends of theirs that meet me).  The only explanation I've ever gotten is that it's just awkward, and they don't like the conversation it leads to.  

[ClareWalks]

12 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

Pausing live TV isn't a universal no-no. It's a matter of preference and it was clear it never occurred to him there were people who would find that annoying

Mostly because Toby is so self-obsessed that he couldn't tell by Kate's obvious body language and pleas for him to stop blocking the TV that she was interested in watching the game. Others here have really nailed it, that guy just desperately needs attention all the time and cannot deal with not being the center of everything.

[Sharon]

I wonder if Rebecca had fertility problems, since she mentioned being 'only' almost 30 and ended up pregnant with multiples.  Maybe they had to have help getting pregnant.

[Biggie B]

Quote

Maybe they had to have help getting pregnant.

Don't think so, since Kate told Toby she was conceived in the bathroom on the day of the Super Bowl, and we then saw Rebecca and Jack going at it in the bathroom at Froggy's (ew!!). Certainly the odds of conceiving triplets "naturally" are probably pretty slim, but it makes for a good moment for a TV drama.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Biggie B
'Cause I screwed up something.

[ClareWalks]

Yeah, I was wondering if Terry Bradshaw had such a raw manly magnetism that he spontaneously made Rebecca ovulate three eggs at once!

[3girlsforus]

14 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Mostly because Toby is so self-obsessed that he couldn't tell by Kate's obvious body language and pleas for him to stop blocking the TV that she was interested in watching the game. Others here have really nailed it, that guy just desperately needs attention all the time and cannot deal with not being the center of everything.

Yea but he isn't anymore psycho needy than she is.  I don't either of them should be in a relationship. They are both at the developmental stage of a junior higher. 

[SueB]

I like Toby but he crossed the line for me too this episode.  She wanted space and he wouldn't give it to her.  We need to see he knows how to back off.

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

Yeah, I was wondering if Terry Bradshaw had such a raw manly magnetism that he spontaneously made Rebecca ovulate three eggs at once!

Or two.  The dead baby may have been Kevin's identical twin.  And you know what?  It would have sucked if he survived.  I mean, it's one thing to be The Manny's sibling, but his identical twin?  Of course, if that happened, maybe Kevin wouldn't have gone into acting...

[SueB]

4 hours ago, femmefan1946 said:

First of all, you're supposed to talk about whether or not you want kids BEFORE you get married.

As I recall the episode, they did have the conversation, and both agreed they did not want children. So Jack's position was a new one-- and seems to have come out of nowhere to Rebecca. Enough that she left the bar and sat outside in the cold until Jack joined her.

And it's Rebecca that would be doing the heavy lifting-- even before learning there would be triplets.

I don't think the "new" position was that he wanted kids.  Because she agreed that she always said they'd talk about it later.   What was new was that the "joke" wasn't feeling like a joke anymore to Jack.  He's watching her biological clock (right, wrong, whatever... he's not wrong that she's aging and back then, 30 was old for children).  What's clear is that she said before they got married that she wasn't going to be one of those women who just got married, had kids, and then watched her husband.  She later talked about still being at Froggy's. So, it seems to me, she wanted to explore her life and be her own person.  I don't know when they got married, but I'm guessing it was a fair amount of time before this episode.  Said differently, she wanted to accomplish something with her singing, and by still being at Froggy's, she wasn't where she wanted to be.  But really, if she never got beyond Froggy's, then perhaps a music career was always going to be a bit limited.  More importantly, she admitted that she always saw she and Jack having kids.  I don't think she made that up on the spot.  She just was waiting for "someday"... and the someday was tied to her own ambitions.  But Jack wasn't wrong about they needed to talk about it.  She was getting older and it is more dangerous (even back in the 80's) the later you have children.  IMO, however, he said the right thing.  He wanted HER.  And he chose HER rather than kids.  Point blank.  I think when he told her that, it helped her to stop being defensive (and based on the flashback, she did NOT want to be her mother) and look at what she (Rebecca) really wanted.  

Bottom Line:
- It's clear they didn't talk specifically about having children before marriage (either yes or no).
- This was NOT the first time it was brought up.  This was the first time that Jack started to realize it may never happen.  And he brought the issue to a head. BEFORE Rebecca was ready.
- Rebecca had her own aspirations and she didn't want to face the idea that perhaps she was not going to be the next Janice Joplin.  So, forcing her to look at the issue of children, forced her to look at her own dreams and what was happening with them.
- In the end, Jack was right to apologize for pushing it all at once.  But I also think he was right to recognize she was stalling.  The conversation needed to happen (although I personally think the Super Bowl was a shitty day to do it).

[Randomosity]

I'm late to the game on this episode, so a lot of this is just echoing previously stated thoughts.

On 10/25/2016 at 10:17 PM, ShadowFacts said:

I have to say I was kind of meh about the football contrivance.  Just wasn't feeling that.  Too heavy-handed.  Our family loves football, let's put a hat on dad's urn.  Ok, got it.  As usual, Randall's family was the heart of it for me, and Kevin is definitely getting more interesting. 

 

10 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It's not just football.   It reminded me of watching the final season of Friends surrounded by inconsiderate college roommates.

 

The urn thing was totally normal, as was gung-ho sports family. I'm pretty sure our dogs' urns/boxes still get 'dressed up' in their festive collars for holidays. And my family is so, so into hockey, I have no problem seeing my brother and I putting team gear on my mom's future urn/headstone/whatever.

On the other hand, it was Kevin's painting narration that I found WAY heavy-handed. I guess I have a heart of stone or something, given that other posts I've read here seem to love his soliloquy, but ugh. Really? I remember reading a review of the premiere before the first episode that called the show way too self-important and over-dramatic, and that it gave the sense that it was just so much better and deep and thoughtful compared to other tv shows. Once I saw the first few episodes, I didn't get that sense, so I've kept watching. That painting speech was the first time I can totally understand the description given in that article I read. Blech. It was also symptomatic of something else that was alluded to here - the need to "show, not tell". Kate said Toby's breakfast was for being so nice and doing things for her. Hi, show, evidence of that would be nice. Show it. Don't tell us it happened. Similar with the montage - just show that (modified with better clarification of when things are happening, because clearly we're confused even with the words).

Also, Toby can GTFO any time now. He's been less than endearing already, and this episode? No. He was a jerk here. It's not even a matter of disregarding her specific sports ritual, it's just straight up disrespect. "Kate, you clearly have no idea what you want and what is best for you to do that day, so you should really go along with my ideas. Oh, and also, I'll be completely tone-deaf to the fact that when you do accept my pushy, pushy 'invitation', you thought it would be a nice couple-y experience, so I'll invite my random friend for you to watch with." That would not fly for me. I feel badly for Kate (or people like her) that are willing to put up with that just to have a relationship. I'm also overweight and have struggled with dating, but I still respect myself. If a guy I'm dating doesn't respect me and my plans/opinions/preferences, I'd rather be single. Toby would be gone, for sure.

[queenanne]

21 hours ago, RachelKM said:

Did Toby actually have the nerve to ask Kate "Then why did you come?"  when she explained why she left?  SHE SAID NO TWICE YOU ASSHAT!!!! He pressed the issue up to and including a damn craft card he rudely passed down a line of people including the person to whom he was supposed to be listening and  he asks her why she agreed?  And inviting a third party despite the fact that she was already tentatively including him in something she usually did alone and then having the nerve to act shocked that she wasn't comfortable?  Good god.  By the time he paused the game (at your fucking peril in my house), I was already done with him. 

The only thing in this show I adore more than Beth is Beth and Randall. They are wonderful together.  

Kevin and William were my second favorite scene pairing tonight.  Kevin and his nieces were third.  

And in closing, Fuck You Toby.

Yes, thanks, this.  He couldn't even leave the poor dang lady sharing at Overeaters Anonymous alone to finish her share session.  She clearly lost her train of thought; but what does that matter because nothing to Toby is as important as Toby.  Why, we already learned he barely cares about losing weight, at least not to the point of wanting to eat this yucky tasting healthy food; but don't worry, he's already losing more weight than Kate.  And then he made tonight Kate's fault, too... I get that he wants his BF to learn how great Kate is and vice versa, but he guessed everything wrong.  (Full disclosure:  I grant I am one of those irritating silent TV watchers whose attention span can be destroyed by any secondary aural input, but still.)  I agree you absolutely don't pause "a live TV event" to share a random story, even if you only lose 3 minutes.  How does Kate know the story would only take a couple minutes to tell?  Maybe this divergent concert story puts her half an hour behind in the action, and she's fidgeting waiting for it to be over; that doesn't exactly strike me as honoring the spirit of "getting to know you in fun acquaintanceship" either.  Plus in my experience it's generally a harbinger - the chit-chatty pause-button-y types don't just do it once per showing of anything.  It's their modus operandi, no matter how many times the naggy nudge (me) says "Er, guys? Could you be quiet/not stop it?  No joke, I had might as well not be watching this with you here."

13 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

The Toby character is really getting unlikable.   I think the writers think they're being non-judgemental &  politically correct by showing the audience how 2 overweight people can find love! They are desirable!  They are able to have relationships!  Just like all the skinny, more telegenic people!  I find it condescending. 

I think they see Toby's unrelenting persistence as "proof" of his feelings for Kate.  What was their pitch in the writers room? "She's super fat, but he super likes her!  Look at all the stuff he does to show how into her he is!  Crafty stalker cards!  Kidnapping Whisking her off to the nursing home to sing against her will! Inserting himself in her private personal football tradition after being told repeatedly she wanted to be alone for one goddamned night!  Making fun of every meal she serves to show her how stupid it is for her to try to eat healthy/lose weight!  Invites himself to a fancy Hollywood party because God forbid she goes with her brother on a quasi work related event without him and his stupid fedora!  Get it?  She's FAT but he STILL likes her!  A lot...like so much, he never listens to her... because she doesn't really know her own feelings, cos duh, she's fat, so, duh, no self esteem! We don't know if he even has a job because he is constantly in her face!  Dude, that's love!  What?  No! Of course it doesn't matter that he's fat too...he's a GUY.  The weight isn't an issue for men on TV. They can choose to be with skinny OR fat girls.  Look at Kevin James...fat as fuck and both his TV wives are hot."

I think a primary problem we have is, with the exception of the occasional rare outlier like David Benioff, the trope is "Hollywood male writers in the main look a lot closer to Chris Sullivan than they do to Justin Hartley", thus tend to write wish fulfillment where the CS's of the world can vault themselves closer to the success the Hartley types have with women, just by their gift of gab.  I feel like the writers do think Toby's is being written as pretty charming behavior, and I'd be a little surprised if the writers irretrievably broke them up, actually.