S06.E05: Street Rats

[Randomosity]

23 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Though I have to say, it was driving me nuts how they kept saying that Saviors are doomed to die. Well, everyone is. Maybe they should have clarified it by saying they die young, or getting into more specifics about the Saviors' fate, whether they tend to die because of villains coming after them or there's a physical breakdown. As it was, I kept snarking, "Yeah, everyone dies. Saviors aren't special."

Ditto. Like, no one said it would be tomorrow. Durr...

20 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

CS are always talking about domestic fluff like ordering Chinese or watching Netflix. I want to see them actually do it.

Heh, I know your 'do it' referred to Chinese and Netflix, but my mind jumped to the kind of 'doing it' we'd only be seeing if they were on Cinemax. Speaking of, do we finally assume they've done it? If they're ordering pizza at home, etc., they must have followed through with what they started on the couch pre-blimp, right? Can't we at least get the pillow talk after the fact, or the morning after, like Jekyll/Hyde and his (their?) lady? I'll give the writers a pass if they're waiting until the visions/lies are over before giving us shmoopy domesticity. But if it doesn't happen this season, I kick things.

Why is Aladdin Australian with a twinge of Scottish?

How does one row a boat with a hook?

If Snow thinks there are no lies, she's only adding to the pile by lying to herself. I don't hate that Hook kept the scissors, but eff, I seriously hate having yet another lie between him and Emma. Especially if they're purporting to being moving on to the happy middle of ordering Grubhub and lounging on the couch together.

I actually half expected Hook to morph into the Evil Queen once Emma walked away at the end, especially when the scissors were revealed. But then I realized they'd just kissed a few times and that'd be way too SwanQueen-y for me. Glad it was not the case.

Where does Pongo go during therapy sessions? He was on the walk, then... nothing. Where'd he go?

I assume that was Goldilocks doing the manicures. When do we see her story?

I almost laughed out loud at the Sultan playing with his dollhouse.

Why is Zelena still a thing? I get that they must like the actress, but why is she still here? Can she go away soon? We're so not in Oz anymore, so she's pointless.

Good point above, whoever mentioned that the magic tracker spell still worked, so was that a brain fart on the writers' part or the characters'?

I had other comments, but... meh, apparently not worth the effort for my brain to recall.

[Tiger]

48 minutes ago, rachel1496 said:

I don't think there is a Wonderland connection anymore.  I could get over them recasting the role of Jafar (a role that rightfully belongs to Naveen Andrews's hair) but they changed his entire back story in the process. Jafar 1.0 didn't give a shit about Aladdin and I'm pretty sure the Sultan was actually his father who was in the bird cage with Cyrus.  It wouldn't be so annoying if it weren't for the fact that TPTB were responsible for writing Jafar's story line in Wonderland and they should probably know what it was.

Were Aladdin & Jasmine mentioned at all on Wonderland?

[The Wild Sow]

Quote

The Aladdin actor was not too bad, but his accent was confusing.

Yes!  Every time he opened his mouth that Australian accent took me right out of the scene.

[Shanna Marie]

38 minutes ago, Randomosity said:

Where does Pongo go during therapy sessions? He was on the walk, then... nothing. Where'd he go?

And who's looking after him now that Archie's a cricket again?

I figure this can be a different sultan than in Wonderland if Jafar put his father the sultan in the cage, and didn't he murder his half brother, the heir? So this sultan could have been his puppet that he put on the throne. Or it could have been a different city.

Maybe Hook wasn't pouting so much as in shock. After all, he's gone through all he's gone through, what with dying and all, and has come back to life just in time to find out that Emma could be dying soon. Whenever he learned that, he was likely to go into shock. At least he was being silent rather than lecturing her, and he was willing to hang out with her later (unless needing to check on the Jolly Roger was his equivalent of needing to wash his hair, just an excuse to get out of it and he wasn't planning to get around to showing up).

[InsertWordHere]

I was hoping EQ!Archie would run into Pongo and he'd sniff out her fake identity. 

[KingOfHearts]

Just now, InsertWordHere said:

I was hoping EQ!Archie would run into Pongo and he'd sniff out her fake identity. 

I'm kind of glad the audience knew about the shapeshifting first thing. I would hate if the writers pulled the same "trick" from their sleeve again for shock value.

[Artsda]

I loved Aladdin and Jasmine scenes. Agrabah really looked like the movie.

Regina needs to get Robin's baby from her sister.

[retrograde]

1 hour ago, The Wild Sow said:

Yes!  Every time he opened his mouth that Australian accent took me right out of the scene.

That was no Australian accent. I think it was his attempt at British, but it was torturously bad.

[MedievalGirl]

I thought Aladdin's accent was meant to be cockney-like to emphasize the class distinction. 

Edited October 24, 2016 by MedievalGirl

[InsertWordHere]

I'm still not convinced the "savioritis" is actually linked to being the savior. Maybe Aladdin got the shakes from touching the diamond dust (and maybe that's what allowed him to expertly use magic right away) and Emma got them from touching something on the airship and then following the red bird. I know Aladdin didn't have shaking hands in this episode, but he also didn't have a vision until he saw the red bird (I think) whereas Emma was having them before she followed the bird. 

2 hours ago, Randomosity said:

Speaking of, do we finally assume they've done it?

I've been assuming that for like a season now. 

[Camera One]

Adam clarified on Twitter that Agrabah is made up of many cities.  Jane said on Twitter that there were more than one Sultan, and this was a different one than the one on "Wonderland" since Jasmine's father can't be Jafar's father.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Camera One

[Camera One]

This episode had such a dreary atmosphere.  The subdued music and tone made me want to reach for a bottle of antidepressants or maybe a night cap (the type you put on your head).

I was disappointed with the Aladdin flashbacks.  The actors had the look, but I couldn't feel the chemistry, despite trying to.  It didn't help the romance to have Jasmine acting like she only needed him to save Agrabah.  And Aladdin decided to stay Savior because he was in love with Jasmine?  Way to have a complex motivation.  The Writers tried so hard to make their parting in Agrabah seem mega-dramatic, but I don't get it.  They couldn't agree to be exclusive to each other and have a long distance relationship?  Huh?  Aladdin turned out to be a total loser, so what was with the heartfelt reunion at the lake at the end?  We didn't even get to see present-day Jasmine's reaction to finding out he severed his Savior-ness.  It was an hour but Jasmine and Aladdin both felt like strangers to me.  What was Jasmine referring to last episode about her not being ready to be a hero?  I did like "Open Sesame" actually working and the mention of Ali Baba.  They could have melded these two stories together more for an actually engaging and less predictable, dynamic plotline.

As usual, the present-day stuff was ho-hum.  I'm sick and tired of seeing the protagonists tricked, and the first third of the episode was basically them getting tricked for the umpteenth time by a doppleganger.  The only good thing that came out of it was giving the actor who plays Archie something to do, though the best scene was actually Archie and Emma following the bird at the beginning. 

The Three Bears spa was cute, but I question the point of the Evil Queen/Zelena bonding.  Why wasn't The Evil Queen tracking down Aladdin herself?  She's just all over the place.  Why would she kill The Oracle but keep Archie alive (except we're not supposed to care about the Oracle)?  There's no consistency in the writing.

And then we had the fallout of Emma's "secret", which was basically Emma "learning" the same lesson all over again.  It was boring in 5A and even more boring now that we're watching it for the fifth? time?  When Snow pulled up her seat beside Emma, I thought Wow, they will get to have a conversation, but it was actually 30 seconds and it was basically to bang us over the head with the "irony" that David is lying to Snow and "Don't forget folks, we're coming back to that secret in a few weeks!".  The other purpose of the conversation seemed to be pivoting to how it was affecting Hook, except then we got the weird situation where Emma and Hook doesn't exchange a word until the end of the episode.  I felt badly for him in the Crypt when Emma said "I want to be alone" and Hook seemed to be asking wordlessly, "Uh, did that mean me too?"  I did like that Emma had a scene with Henry and it wasn't all about Regina for once.

Overall, this was a very lacklustre episode.  There were many conversations (which should have been a good thing), but most of these conversations were repetitive or lacking in emotional oomph. 

Edited October 24, 2016 by Camera One

[Mathius]

37 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Adam clarified on Twitter that Agrabah is made up of many cities.  Jane said on Twitter that there were more than one Sultan, and this was a different one than the one on "Wonderland" since Jasmine's father can't be Jafar's father.

Ah, good, it is like some people guessed then.  I hope next time the episode itself makes that kind of info clear, because things on the show needing to be clarified on Twitter in order to make sense is embarrassing.

[KAOS Agent]

That wasn't just bad, that was boring. I kind of want my hour back.

Some notes:

- Aladdin/Jasmine is hardly an epic romance. What the hell? She was only mourning him because she needed the Saviour? That sounds a hell of a lot like pretty much all of Emma's friends/family. They really don't see the whole Saviour vs the person problem at all, do they?

- Loved Emma telling Henry that she wouldn't change anything and that endings generally suck, so let's focus on the middle part. Finally a scene that wasn't about another person, but about them and their relationship.

- All the other Emma/family scenes were really not good. Snow's conversation was very delusional considering the Dreamshade and the Eggnapping incidents. But it seemed like a contrived thing that was hitting us over the head with the upcoming David is keeping secrets storyline. 

- Emma/Hook didn't have a single moment alone where they talked things through. Not one. And then he decides not to do what she asked and keeps the shears. So are they okay? Is he really avoiding her? Was his mention of the storm coming meant to compare to Jafar's mention of the coming storm to Aladdin and his eventual use of the shears? 

- Zelena isn't the brightest bulb to believe in the Evil Queen. What exactly is her plan for the future? Be wicked and alone with her daughter? I did appreciate her using Archie as a babysitter.

- I have so many problems with everyone freaking out at Emma for discussing things with a therapist and not them. Did no one notice that Henry was deeply upset? Was she supposed to share this with him? Or were they planning on keeping it a secret from him? Would that be appropriate? Hook is the only one who had a right to be upset and he didn't get a POV. 

- Is Belle still on the Jolly Roger? Did she decide to leave after Jekyll died there?

- I still want to know what the Evil Queen's plan is. This season makes no sense because they aren't really doing anything. I'm so bored. There's nothing to speculate about. It's just so random and pointless.

[Curio]

I haven't been able to watch this episode yet, but because I knew going in this was written by A&E and I tend to dislike most of their episodes, I wanted to read a few comments here to see what I have to brace for. And wow...I think I have to lower my expectations even lower than they already were. Of course there's a random magical and powerful object that has never been mentioned before that is suddenly a major plot point. (Magic shears, meet magic gauntlet. Together, you can mate and create Edward Scissorhands gloves and randomly pop up in Season 7 after no one mentions your existence.) Of course they focus more on Regina's face than anyone else's when Emma's secret is revealed. Of course more secrets are being kept. Of course the Charmings are hypocrites.

I just hope there's enough Oded Fehr in this episode to keep me interested for 43 minutes.

[andromeda331]

My favorite part was Emma pointing out that endings usually suck and to focus on the middle.  I know they love to go on about happy endings, but it was nice to have someone finally say this. The rest was mostly boring. What was the point of EQ's plan to spill Emma's secret? There was no real fall out. Yes, let's have Snow tell Emma she and Charming don't keep secrets so Snow looks like a moron again later when she learns Charming is keeping yet another secret.  Nothing from Hook until the very end. So all Jasmine wanted out of Aladdin was the Savior? Thanks A&E for grossing me out by having EQ and Zelena talking about getting with Rumple.

[PixiePaws1]

Really Killian? Not one word about Emma dying??? Nothing? Stupid, stupid STUPID writing!!!!         

 

Maybe I was too busy fuming about Killian saying nothing but was that a totally mixed message from Emma with the going to trust the people she loves to find another way but she'll pay the price???

Snow. .go stand in the corner and rethink your life choices!

Edited October 24, 2016 by PixiePaws1

[Worsel]

8 hours ago, Tiger said:

 

Welp, at least I didnt have to see Rumple's bitchass too.

Um, I really would have liked to see Rumple's ass  :)

[Curio]

Okay, finally watched it.

This was just...not a well-written episode. At all. The dialogue was clunky, the flashbacks were rushed and unengaging, multiple characters were acting out of character and forgetting major plot points from last season, and the big moment we've been waiting for (Emma's family's immediate reaction to her secret) happened off screen yet again. I think it's about time Jane Espenson or David H. Goodman became the head writers on the show instead of A&E, but who knows if that would even help at this point.

The flashbacks to Agrabah made me realize this season would have been 1000% more exciting and fun if the main cast got to travel to Agrabah and experience a whole new world. (I know, I know. I couldn't resist). The flashbacks are rough to get through when they don't have main characters in them—and sometimes that can be ignored when the actors have chemistry—but Aladdin and Jasmine didn't really have much of a rapport. Granted, I didn't totally buy Emma and Hook's chemistry right away during the beanstalk episode either, but they were both at least compelling characters on their own. Aladdin is kind of a dud, and Jasmine is only getting by because of Karen David's charm. Also, keeping the main characters stuck in Storybrooke is only adding to the repetitive nature of this season. It wouldn't be so bad if the writers didn't insist on recycling old plots, but they're recycling old plots and keeping everyone in a boring setting. If we're going to recycle the Charmings lying to each other and people getting upset because of loved ones keeping secrets and villains doing glamour spells and Emma handing over a sharp pointy object to someone because she trusts them and tracking spells that lead to a lot of pointless wandering, then at least an Agrabanian setting would make the show a little more fresh and new.

Can someone please explain to me how Jasmine knew to seek out Aladdin in the first place? Was she tracking his stealing skills for weeks? How did she know his name and where to find him? Was Aladdin always a Savior with magic inside him like Emma, or did stealing the diamond give him Savior powers? If he didn't have natural genetic magic like Emma and only gained his powers because of the diamond, why did Jasmine trick him into becoming a Savior? By not revealing that she was giving Aladdin magical Savior powers, Jasmine was taking away Aladdin's agency and his right to choose whether or not he wanted to become a Savior. Is that supposed to be an issue that's being poorly paralleled with Hook and the shears? (More on that rant later.) Or was the sword test just something that awakened Aladdin's magic he had all along, and it took a life or death event for Aladdin to tap into those powers? Why did Jasmine suspect Aladdin was the Savior? What if she was wrong about Aladdin's magic and he wasn't a Savior? Was she willing to just get crushed by the falling column? Was Aladdin showing signs of Savioritis when he was a thief on the street? Was Jasmine keeping a daily journal and tracking every "heart of gold" moment she saw whenever Aladdin did something kind and generous in the marketplace? But every moment the audience saw of Aladdin was him not having a heart of gold, and he was stealing gold and jewelry from common folk. He wasn't even being like Robin Hood and stealing from the wealthy, he straight up stole a necklace off a lady's neck. Basically, within the very first moments of Jasmine meeting Aladdin, the writers were asking us to take a huge mental leap and believe that Jasmine was able to tell Aladdin was a Savior just by stalking him.

And then we have Emma's reveal. I sometimes feel like A&E lack basic empathetic emotions because they write their characters' reactions to events in such an inorganic way. When Emma revealed she was having what she thinks is a vision of her future (she even uses the word "thinks," so she's not even sure it will happen), you'd expect her family to be a little more accommodating. When Hook was standing there, I expected him to give Emma a hug even though he may have been hurt, yet the director had Colin off on the sidelines the entire episode brooding. A&E specifically must have written it so that Emma's family yells at her off screen and that the camera only focuses on the Evil Queen, which is yet another example of the writers building up Charming family drama only for the meaty part to happen off camera because they're more interested in other things. If this show was truly about the characters and not the plot, we would have gotten to see a good twenty seconds of Emma's facial expression during her family's freak out. But instead, it's all about Regina. (Thanks, REC.) I think I would have preferred to not hear any dialogue during that part and have all of it happen during the commercial like what they did with the eggnapping reveal, because it's absolutely asinine that Hook, Charming, and Snow would jump on Emma immediately like that. What Emma said was so vague that it didn't warrant all that off screen heat. She didn't even say when she would die yet at that point, so it's like the characters magically got to see what the audience saw the second Emma confessed. 

Not only does Emma have to apologize to Snow for keeping a secret, but Emma can't even defend herself and say that she wasn't exactly keeping it a secret, she was telling Archie about her problems and seeking professional help. You know, because Snow was the one to send Archie in the first place. How does that not count for anything? Why didn't Snow or Hook bring up the fact that Emma's vision about Red wasn't accurate in the Underworld? They've now had Henry give multiple speeches to Regina and Jasmine about not trusting bad guys, but he doesn't decide to give that same speech to Emma in the loft? Wouldn't that have been perfect timing to calm everyone down? And why is everyone freaking out anyways? We literally just finished an arc where we brought a person back to life and know there's an Underworld. All Emma has to do to bide time is have some unfinished business, and then Hook can go to the Underworld and convince his good friend Zeus to bring Emma back to life. Are all the characters conveniently forgetting 5B never happened?

And of course, Regina makes it all about her again. Of all the characters acting out of character this episode, at least she's in character when she's being slightly narcissistic. "So, I'm not there?" Is it really that farfetched, Regina? You weren't there when Emma was about to destroy herself by getting sucked into a hat because you were off having crypt sex. You weren't there when Emma was getting choked by Hyde. You weren't there when Emma was saving Ashley a few episodes ago. You don't have to be with the Charming family 24/7. Maybe you're off with Zelena in the vision? Maybe you're at the mayor's office? I so wish Belle could have been in this episode (wow, I can't believe it's gotten to the point where I'm missing Belle on screen) just so she could have been awkwardly standing in the corner of the loft when Regina made that comment.

Regina: So, I'm not there? 
Emma: The figure in the hood kills me while I protect everyone, but no, you're not there.
Regina: Well, where do you think I am?
Belle: It's okay, Regina. You don't have to feel left out. I'm not in Emma's vision either.
Regina: It's not that I feel left out! Okay, I feel left out. But...you're also not as important as me.
Belle: Come again?
Regina: I need to be in every scene of every episode. If I'm not in a major climactic fight, then something is clearly wrong and the writer of the episode must have had a stroke.
Belle: Oh, I get it. I'm still not allowed to be a part of Team Hero, is that it? It's a huge travesty if you can't witness Emma dying, but it's "meh" if I'm not there? Thanks for making me feel included, guys! How about Zelena? Was she there? Was Rumple there? Why does it only matter if you're the one who's missing, Regina? I've been on this show since Season 1! I've been here longer than Captain Hook!
Regina: Because I'm the most important character on this show! Adam and Eddy specifically wrote me to ask why I'm not there, so clearly they want me there! If I'm ever not in a scene, the audience should ask why I'm not there! This is how I got inserted into Hook's flashback last season.

And then we have the fucking shears...the random Season 6 Magical Object of Importance that was never known about until now. Of all the countless magical artifacts that have been introduced over 100 episodes, there isn't a single one the writers could have gone back to for this episode? And are the writers seriously expecting us to buy that Hook will somehow have a hand in deciding Emma's Savior fate for her—the character on the show who puts Emma's agency first more than anyone else? The one character who allowed Emma to be the one to initiate everything in their relationship, the one who waited on Emma to make the first move for their first kiss, the one who waited for Emma to ask about how he traded his ship, the one who waited for Emma to kiss him again for real, the one who gave a speech to David about how their relationship would be just as much Emma's choice as it was his, the one who took the dagger away from both Snow and Regina because Dark Swan needed to make her choices herself, the one who walked away when he knew Emma was lying to him but he listened to her wishes and gave her space...this is the character they've decided to go there with?? This season is truly the season of resetting characters backwards and making them forget major events from a few weeks ago.

I sincerely hope Hook is hanging onto the shears only because: 1) Tossing them into the water was a terrible idea. Some villain could have easily used magic to retrieve the shears using a tracking spell and magically lift them out of the water, 2) He's hanging on to them because it's better to know where they are instead of not knowing where they are under the sea, 3) He thinks Emma is being rash about her decision and is holding onto them just in case she changes her mind, 4) He's holding onto them because, like us, he's pissed he didn't get to have a proper on screen conversation with Emma about her decision and wants to have a real talk later. If they go the utterly predictable route where Hook uses the shears to try and give Emma a longer life, only for Emma to need her magic to protect herself and that's what gets her killed anyways...I quit this show. The only thing giving me hope about that outcome not coming true is how nonchalant Hook is acting in the vision. If he went behind Emma's back and used the shears, he wouldn't be holding Henry back, he'd be running to go save Emma because he'd realize what a mistake he made. Let's hope it doesn't ever come to that, but based on how predictable and unimaginative the writers have been this season, I wouldn't doubt it.

This show is all talk and no fun. Why do we constantly have conversations about more exciting Offscreenville events? Why can't they show Hook, Emma, and Henry having pizza with hot buttered rum in front of the fireplace? Visually showing scenes like that go so much further than offhanded comments and would make all these melodramatic lies and secrets a bit more bearable because at least we could witness these people having fun "middle" events. Emma said that endings suck and to enjoy the middle, but that's incredibly ironic because the middle episodes of OUAT always get dragged down with boring filler.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Curio

[Randomosity]

5 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

I've been assuming that for like a season now. 

I had been too, but the couch scene this season made it seem like it was new territory for them as a couple.

17 minutes ago, Curio said:

And are the writers seriously expecting us to buy that Hook will somehow have a hand in deciding Emma's Savior fate for her—the character on the show who puts Emma's agency first more than anyone else? The one character who allowed Emma to be the one to initiate everything in their relationship, the one who waited on Emma to make the first move for their first kiss, the one who waited for Emma to ask about how he traded his ship, the one who waited for Emma to kiss him again for real, the one who gave a speech to David about how their relationship would be just as much Emma's choice as it was his, the one who took the dagger away from both Snow and Regina because Dark Swan needed to make her choices herself, the one who walked away when he knew Emma was lying to him but he listened to her wishes and gave her space...this is the character they've decided to go there with?? This season is truly the season of resetting characters backwards and making them forget major events from a few weeks ago.

I truly hope Hook is hanging onto the shears only because: 1) Tossing them into the water was a terrible idea. Some villain could have easily used magic to retrieve the shears using a tracking spells and magically lift them out of the water, 2) He's hanging on to them because it's better to know where they are instead of not knowing where they are under the sea, 3) He thinks Emma is being rash about her decision and is holding onto them just in case she changes her mind, 4) He's holding onto them because, like us, he's pissed he didn't get to have a proper on screen conversation with Emma about her decision and wants to have a real talk later. If they go the utterly predictable route where Hook uses the shears to try and give Emma a longer life, only for Emma to need her magic to protect herself and that's what gets her killed anyways...I quit this show. The only thing giving me hope about that outcome not coming true is how nonchalant Hook is acting in the vision. If he went behind Emma's back and used the shears, he wouldn't be holding Henry back, he'd be running to go save Emma because he'd realize what a mistake he made. Let's hope it doesn't ever come to that, but based on how predictable and unimaginative the writers have been this season, I wouldn't doubt it.

I didn't see it as Hook planning to force anything on Emma. As you say, that's not him. However, the things you reference are all before Emma ignored his wishes about letting him die, then the whole Dark Ones, Underworld, coming back to life, etc. He seems pretty appreciative of his new lease on life. Even though he originally told Emma to let him die. I have no problem believing that he thinks he can convince Emma not to go along with the default Savior fate, because she didn't let him to his death sentence via sword nick. What you call the 'utterly predictable route' is not something I'd have predicted at all - I read it as him just not being ok with Emma giving into death, and he's going to want to have them around when he talks with her again about it in the context of her just recently going through hell and back (literally) to not let him die.

 

17 minutes ago, Curio said:

This show is all talk and no fun. Why do we constantly have conversations about more exciting Offscreenville events? Why can't they show Hook, Emma, and Henry having pizza with hot buttered rum in front of the fireplace? Visually showing scenes like that go so much further than offhanded comments and would make all these melodramatic lies and secrets a bit more bearable because at least we could witness these people having fun "middle" events.

Yep. I get vivid flashbacks of my high school English teacher insisting that we "show, don't tell" in our writing. OUAT's writers clearly got no such wisdom from their teachers. Would have been just as easy to show Hook coming home to Henry and Emma eating pizza on the couch and give us a peek at the shears when Hook goes to take off his coat to join them.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Randomosity

[maryle]

I made the mistake that I rarely do (because this show not worth it) to watch this episode again. It just doesn't hold up a the second time. Everything is too dragging for maximum drama that felt false.  

And, yes it felt Killian the week is just brooding in the corner because next week he will have his turn.

Zelena has beautiful blue eyes. That all got from her scene.

But, the actor who playe Archie was still good and demonstrate me how the over the top acting from the villain is not that hard to master by the actor.

Honestly, I still want this show to go on but, I am not sure why. Any other shows this repetitive and mostly boring without any real chance to improve will have me turn off the TV a long time ago. 

[shoregirl]

Hasn't it only been  a week or two since the beginning of the season? This show moves so slow I'd be surprised if it's anymore than that. So maybe everyone in Emma's life could give her a break about not telling them about the visions the moment she saw them and taking a moment to process them with a therapist.  Hey Snow maybe if you stopped spending most of your time with the woman who tried to kill you multiple times and a little more time with your daughter she would be more open to share things with you. Also maybe you shouldn't be so judgy of her.

[daxx]

Ok, that was... an episode. I hate that they didn't give Colin practically any lines this episode what's up with that? He didn't talk to Emma at all about what happened or her imminent demise. I just don't understand this episode. Then at the end Emma is talking about takeout like nothing had happened?

Hope they talk next episode because this one was depressing.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I wanted to like this episode because Aladdin is one of my favorite Disney movies, but this fell flat for me. I felt like they used the characters' names and costumes and then the hell with all the rest. The few things they did to reference the movie should have made me go yay but instead they felt like weak garbage they were throwing at the audience to say, "See? We DID watch the movie once before we wrote this episode! Magic carpets! The sultan with a toy castle! I can show you the world! Aladdin's apple trick!"

Then there is the problem of the actual writing. Last week I already saw them trying to go the Buffy route with Emma and this week they're making it even more specific. The difference is that on BtVS, they illustrated the whole dilemma much better - being the slayer is a huge responsibility which makes it difficult for the slayer to have a normal life and it always ends in the slayer dying young. I understood that during the first season of BtVS. She was forced to sacrifice her relationships with her mother, her friends, boys she liked, school, everything, because saving the world was her responsibility and everything else had to come a distant second. Death was almost guaranteed to be violent, painful, and at a young age. All of that was clear. But the message we got in this episode is that the savior will die. That's it. But that's true of, you know, all mortals. Snow is going to die. Henry is going to die. Hook is going to die (again). Any of them could die tomorrow, but any of them (including Emma) could live to be 100. Death is inevitable but it's unpredictable for all of them, including the savior. There was nothing in Emma's visions to indicate that her death was going to happen in the next week or so which means all of this handwringing is a bit superfluous.

I also agree with the previous post about the semantics of Jasmine needing someone to "defeat" Jafar. My definition of defeating a villain means that the bad guy ends up dead or in jail (or some other contained situation where they can't run amok or cause any more damage). In Agrabah, Aladdin didn't defeat Jafar. He was able to fight back and then Jafar magicked himself out of the palace. To me, that's not defeating Jafar. That's Jafar leaving (for now).

And why is no one explaining exactly how the scissors work? Do you just hold them near the savior and make a snip in the air? Do you have to put them somewhere specific? What if you just open and close them without the intent of severing your savior bond?

Poor Archie. Forced to babysit and then trapped in a cage in Zelena's kitchen which means he has to listen to Zelena and the EQ's daily koffee klatch.

[Arnella]

Quote

And why is no one explaining exactly how the scissors work? Do you just hold them near the savior and make a snip in the air? Do you have to put them somewhere specific? What if you just open and close them without the intent of severing your savior bond?

Probably because A&E want to keep their options open.  Maybe they have gotten enough heat for ret-conning that they have figured out that not explaining now means not have to explain away later.

Quote

I just hope there's enough Oded Fehr in this episode to keep me interested for 43 minutes.

I know, right??  SO hot.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Arnella

[TheGreenKnight]

16 hours ago, Worsel said:

But Agrabah is in the middle of the desert - no apple trees in that sort of climate.

Not sure if anyone responded to this already, but that's an issue more with the Disney film. Jasmine and Aladdin's first meeting was at an apple shop (she nearly gets her hand cut off for giving an apple to a child without paying for it).

I still don't care for the new Jafar. Hopefully he’ll die in the next 3 episodes like Hyde, because I just don’t enjoy the actor at all. Aladdin's costume in the flashback was awful, but he looked nice in the present.

The Zelena scenes were the only good thing about this episode for me. I hope we see more Archie-Zelena interaction. Outside that, the episode was pretty boring.

Edited October 24, 2016 by TheGreenKnight

[RadioGirl27]

This was bad. I'm trying to find something I liked but other than Aladdin's cute face (but not his accent, that was horrid) and Oded Fehr's two scenes, I disliked everything else. Everything about Emma's secret was ridiculous. I mean, Snow, Henry and even Regina got a one-on-one conversation with Emma about it, but the guy who (supposedly) lives with her and that (again, supposedly) is her true love, no. He just gets a pair of sad faces in the background and a secret of his own.  A&E doens't know how to write a healthy, adult relationship and this episode was another proof of it. 

[Rumsy4]

The lack of discussion between Hook and Emma about the "secret" and her decision to get rid of the shears was definitely a problem. A&E care more about generating drama than writing an adult relationship, as they claimed in interviews. Also, stop talking about netflix and chinese, and actually show us a damn scene of Hook and Emma having a domestic moment in their house. This Show has the worst case of "tell, don't show". 

[Writing Wrongs]

During the spa scene, this is what I thought of

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cvf62quUEAALskT.jpg:large

Edited October 24, 2016 by Writing Wrongs

[KingOfHearts]

It's especially sad that this episode was written by the showrunners. They also wrote the premiere, which was just as bad. 

[Mathius]

A&E's scripts in the first three seasons of this show were mostly good.  Starting with the S4 premiere, they've turned out crap.

[Daisy]

My Thoughts. 

1: Why can't people see what Zelena's glitch is - she doesn't want to be wicked (and I feel that she's only doing this to appease the evil queen), it's that she wants to be accepted. Archie touched on it and she went ape. everyone treats Zelena as evil and puts up conditions, and the EQ is like whatever, just be who you want. (as she strokes the Wicked bone ..that sounded dirty, but that's who Zelena feels she is). just accept her.

2: I don't blame Aladdin for cutting away his Saviour-dom. Like. he didn't want to be the Saviour. I don't find it cowardly at all. In fact I think Jasmine basically showed exactly how Team Charming for the most part. Does she care for him. sure. I'd even say there could be love there. but for Jasmine, at her core, she sees Aladdin as the saviour. Why take that on? Go live your life. Same with Emma like I think she said it once (or maybe we were talking about it) - her entire family looks t her to be the saviour. She's not just Emma. and now it's default setting for Emma now. Like for me  - i was wondering how much was that "Oh my GOD! We'll lose Emma!!" and "While we'll miss Emma, of course, what will we do in regards to the Saviour?"

I hope she cuts the Saviour-dom by the end of the season. Let this show adjust to a magic-less Emma again. 

3: I hate Snow. (I also hate Charming - blame re-watches) - but Snow needs to just flipping go away "We don't lie." the hell you don't. 

4: I don't blame Hook for brooding. They just went through this whole thing about trust, he comes back to life, and Emma is going to die and in his p.o.v. she doesn't trust him to talk to him first. (and i say this without caring about this relationship whatsoever but accepting that this is what it is). 

5: someone touched that this is basically Buffy and her death set up, and i agree with it that Buffy at the end, was happy to die because she got peace and she was saving her friends and sister. And the set up of why this was also okay was that we constantly saw the sacrifices Buffy had to make and she was always constantly alone (as the Chosen One). Even at the end that was the... 

Oh crap. are we going to have like ALL the saviours awaken at the end of the season? Please don't. 

While I don't mind the whole "untold story" aspect - i still feel there were a lot of myths/mythologies they could have touched on. and I think truly, their doing "1/2" seasons within a full season comes to bite them in the butt. they could be doing so many more things than.. this. 
 

[Rumsy4]

That awkward scene where EQ! and Zelena talk about Rumple, at least they didn't discuss what it was like boning Robin. Small mercies...

[iMonrey]

Sometimes I enjoy the little twists this show gives classic fairy tales, and sometimes I don't. But with Aladdin, the story felt like a low-budget, high school production of the movie. The actor playing Aladdin was a dud. They didn't have the money to create a genie (usually an integral component to the Aladdin mythology - and on this show, a character that would normally have been switched out for Rumpelstiltskin), or Rajah the Tiger or Apu the Monkey. Cave of Wonders looked like storage rental. Sultan looked like an extra from central casting. The whole thing felt short-handed and shallow. It didn't really amount to much either, at the end of the day. 

Quote

 I question the point of the Evil Queen/Zelena bonding.

Maybe that's because it's an about-face from the reconciliation between Zelena and Regina last season. I sense that the show is struggling to keep Rebecca Mader relevant and on board. 

Quote

The only thing I liked was that the Three Bears Salon had human "bears" doing nails.

I caught that too. It's a shame the show (probably) doesn't have the guts to give the idea more than a quick nod and a wink. Imagine a whole backstory about Goldilocks and her "bears" back home. It would certainly add some much needed humor right about now. 

Maybe I missed something, but didn't Emma say she wanted to keep the scissors on hand just in case, as a backup plan? Then why did she approve when Hook said he threw them into the ocean? And why was it sneaky of him to keep them when that's what she asked him to do in the first place?

[InsertWordHere]

2 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Maybe I missed something, but didn't Emma say she wanted to keep the scissors on hand just in case, as a backup plan? Then why did she approve when Hook said he threw them into the ocean?

She said she wanted to get rid of them in case they fell into the wrong hands. 

[Primetimer]

Get it? Because Aladdin. The headlines write themselves, people.

View the full article

[Shanna Marie]

7 hours ago, Curio said:

But every moment the audience saw of Aladdin was him not having a heart of gold, and he was stealing gold and jewelry from common folk. He wasn't even being like Robin Hood and stealing from the wealthy, he straight up stole a necklace off a lady's neck.

I find this rather ironic, considering that the opening scene of the movie is used as an example of how to introduce a character and make him sympathetic in at least one screenwriting book. The movie shows Aladdin being a thief, showing that he's good at it, but he's stealing food, which is somewhat sympathetic -- he's not a selfish thief -- and then even though he's hungry enough to steal, when he sees a small child going hungry, he gives the food he stole to the child. It's a series of actions that show us exactly who he is as a character. Meanwhile, on this show, we get the exact opposite -- we see him stealing jewels, then are told how good a person he is. The big unanswered question, which I hope they get to, is how Jasmine knew he was a Savior. Is that something someone becomes when they do a big act of saving? Something people are born with the potential to be, and that potential is awakened when they do saving? Or something that's there all along that they may not discover until they do the saving? Emma was shown to have magical ability that worked even in the World Without Magic when she was a kid, so with her it seems like it was there all along. But is her magic a part of being a Savior, or is it separate?

If doing some saving makes you a Savior, and that means you're doomed, then that's some reward for doing a good deed. But villains don't get happy endings. (Ugh.)

How did they have possessions of Aladdin in Storybrooke to use to try to track him? Did Jasmine have keepsakes from him that she took with her to the Land of Untold Stories and then brought with her to Storybrooke? Were they in Gold's shop? They didn't know he was in Storybrooke all along, so why would they have found anything of his there?

Was the Evil Queen right that the thing Henry was mad about was that she lied to him and hid who she really was? With Henry, there's no telling, but I'd hope that he'd have been opposed to the Evil Queen thing in general, not just that she wasn't honest with him. Or was she saying that if she'd been honest with him she'd have raised him to be totally on board with the evil, and therefore he wouldn't have been opposed?

[withanaich]

Wow, that was bad. I've never been a fan of Aladdin, but even so. This episode was like everything that's wrong with this show.

[tennisgurl]

I swear, sometimes I feel like I`m in a toxic romance with this show. Its mean to me, its always disappointing, but then it will do something nice (The Cinderella episode, or a few nice character scenes or ideas) and I realize I just cant let go. Oy. 

I was both looking forward to/dreading Aladdin, because Aladdin is one of my favorite Disney movies (I was Jasmine more than one Halloween as a kid), and I was either about to see my favorites come to life, or watch my favorites get dragged through the dirt. The result was...meh. Karen Allen is a great Jasmine, even if the character here was more of a stock "spunky"princess than the character from the movie. And Aladdin? Was a big waste. He wasn't awful, but the actor was just kind of there, and, look, I know this show is over super inconsistent when it comes to its characters accents, but the Australian/British/no idea completely took me out of the episode. Granted, all the characters being British or American in an Arabian fairy tale does not make much sense wither, but his accent was so weird and obviously out of place. Plus, what is even the point of doing Aladdin with Abu or Rajah or the Genie? Yeah that would take more work, but if your going to do Aladdin, do it right damn it! 

21 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

The movie shows Aladdin being a thief, showing that he's good at it, but he's stealing food, which is somewhat sympathetic -- he's not a selfish thief -- and then even though he's hungry enough to steal, when he sees a small child going hungry, he gives the food he stole to the child.

Exactly! That was driving me nuts! Aladdin was a great thief, but we only saw him stealing food because he was hungry, and even then he gave the food to starving kids. This guy was stealing money and jewels from random people. Real Aladdin did dream of being rich, and he did use his wishes to get a fortune, but that was more to get with Jasmine than to actually have money. Its typical Once. Use the names and clothes of the famous characters, but nothing about them that actually made the audience care about them in the original. I admit I giggled whenever they did make a reference to the original with glee, and the city looked cool, but that was about it.  

What is the point of Zelena? Why is she here? To be BFFs with the EQ? For what end? Also, with the kid being named Robin, it just reminds me how little the poor guy left on this show. he died like two weeks ago and no one even talks about him anymore. 

I just want to smack everyone upside the head every week now. Emma is forced to tell everyone the truth? Then Snow lectures Emma on telling the truth, even when she has lied about 20 things in just the last season? The Hook decides to keep yet another stupid secret? Plus David has HIS stupid secret on the back burner? This is ridiculous! These people all need therapy. Which would be easier if they didn't let their shrink get turned into a cricket and stuck in a cage by the Wicked Witch who is supposedly good but is actually probably not and is hanging around the Evil Queen doing her nails, and apparently no one in town thinks thats weird, and I have no idea what I am even watching anymore. 

Edited October 25, 2016 by tennisgurl

[InsertWordHere]

Oh God, since no one figured out that wasn't Archie, are we going to be "treated" to scenes of Emma going to therapy and telling EQ!Archie all of her innermost thoughts?

[YaddaYadda]

2 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

Oh God, since no one figured out that wasn't Archie, are we going to be "treated" to scenes of Emma going to therapy and telling EQ!Archie all of her innermost thoughts?

No, they figured it out when Leroy called David to say that Archie hadn't shown up at his session. It's just that no one seems to care to go and find the real Archie.

[InsertWordHere]

Just now, YaddaYadda said:

No, they figured it out when Leroy called David to say that Archie hadn't shown up at his session. It's just that no one seems to care to go and find the real Archie.

I must have missed that. What a relief.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

How did they have possessions of Aladdin in Storybrooke to use to try to track him? Did Jasmine have keepsakes from him that she took with her to the Land of Untold Stories and then brought with her to Storybrooke? Were they in Gold's shop? They didn't know he was in Storybrooke all along, so why would they have found anything of his there?

I wondered about that too. I think something must have gotten cut.

Quote

No, they figured it out when Leroy called David to say that Archie hadn't shown up at his session. It's just that no one seems to care to go and find the real Archie.

I know, right? Not only did they know the EQ was impersonating Archie, they knew that he was missing. Which means, they know the EQ did something to him. And yet, their priority was finding Aladdin. Why? Shouldn't their priority have been finding Archie? He's the one in immediate, obvious danger, not Aladdin, and not Jasmine, and not even Emma! {head smack}

Nobody gives a shit about Archie, apparently.

[Shanna Marie]

These people really do need identity questions, like they used in Harry Potter to make sure they weren't dealing with imposters. Before anyone tells Archie anything, they should ask him what secret they told him in their last session. Etc. I mean, they know they have two villains in town who have made a habit of impersonating others. They should be suspicious of anyone who just walks up to them and starts asking questions or who creates an uncomfortable situation. We know Archie's not a very good therapist and he got his degree from a curse, but no therapist would just start blurting a patient's secrets out to others or even stand there among others and start pushing the patient to talk. That alone should have been a red flag.
 

[seveneightnine]

Cheese and crackers! The kids and I couldn't stop yelling at the TV with this one.

Apples in Agrabah!?!

Emma's superpower!?!

Snow and Charming don't lie!?!

Hook's duplicity with the scissors!?!

I did kinda like the Bears and Goldilocks at the spa. That was a nice touch.

[Camera One]

4 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

No, they figured it out when Leroy called David to say that Archie hadn't shown up at his session. It's just that no one seems to care to go and find the real Archie.

It was also ridiculous how they had Snow suddenly figuring out that it wasn't Archie out of nowhere.  I guess she has one good neuron that still fires once in a blue corn moon.

After reading these comments, I understand now why I never bought into Aladdin the Savior, because all we saw of him pre-Jasmine was stealing from everyone.  I mean, thank goodness he didn't start talking about his "code", but you can't just go from zero to hero and expect us to swallow it.  So did Aladdin get magic, learn to use it, decided to stay Savior AND "defeated" Jafar all in one day?  So basically, A&E just widened the definition of Savior to... everybody who has magic and does good things with it.  So is Elsa a Savior too?  

I want to know what the Writers' Room was drinking when they decided "magical shears" has a nice ring to it.  

I'm so glad this episode explained why Jasmine became a teachers' aide.  I did get a kick from seeing Emma and David's reactions to hearing Jasmine say the word "Savior".

Edited October 25, 2016 by Camera One

[Terrafamilia]

I thought it was pretty cheap to kill the Oracle off-screen.

When I saw Apu, two separate things came to mind. One and Two.

[ParadoxLost]

Fate's shears bug me.  They are never associated with anything but ending a life.  They were a gift to Aladdin from Jafar.  Hook saving them means that they are ultimately going to endanger Emma when they are supposed to save her.  That is just how things work.

If they hadn't edited the flashbacks the way they did and had Aladdin say he used the shears I'd be arguing that Aladdin was Jafar or somebody in disguise.

I think Emma's hair is getting longer than usual so I think they use the shears on her hair to do whatever magic.

[CCTC]

Maybe because I no longer expect too much for the show, and kind of just enjoy the cheesy fantasy, I thought it was a decent, if not great episode.

I think the Aladdin characters were well cast, especially Karen David as Jasmine.  I am good with a number of episodes being spent on them, and it probably makes more sense than spending a lot of time on Jekyll & Hyde.

I am not sure if I was overtired, but I was amused by OQ's simple babysitting instructions - the baby dies - you die.  I am actually liking the OQ.  

I like the actress who plays Zelina and how she played the Wicked Witch, but I am not sure they should have made her a series regular. I don't think they really know what to do with her and the cast is already too big.  Plus, they don't need another character torn between being evil and reformed.  I think they should have kept her evil and in Oz and then maybe bring her around once every year or so to cause trouble.

I am no longer expecting complex character interactions, so am fine with how people reacted to the secret.  After the initial shock I thought people were supportive, even if they did not show long conversations dealing with it.  

[profdanglais]

Emma looked great in this episode. I loved her pretty blouse and blue jacket, and her hair and makeup were gorgeous. Aside from that, meh. I drifted off during the Wicked Evil sister spa bonding, didn't care for the characterisation of Aladdin, the Saviour stuff is nonsensical, and WT ever-loving F, Killian?

More Oded Fehr being evil, please. That is all.