Donald John Trump: 2016 President-Elect

[navelgazer]

A part of PA is in a recount, but I haven't seen anything about statewide.  

Quote

Philadelphia launches voluntary recount after finding major vote total discrepancies

http://www.palmerreport.com/news/philadelphia-launches-voluntary-recount-after-finding-major-vote-total-discrepancies/338/

One day after Palmer Report and other news outlets reported that a major change to the official voting totals out of Philadelphia had reduced the size of Donald Trump’s lead in Pennsylvania by more than twenty thousand votes, Philadelphia announced today that it’s launching an immediate and voluntary recount to determine if even more votes had been originally miscounted or excluded. Even as Jill Stein continues her legal battle to try to force the entire state of Pennsylvania to perform a recount, Philadelphia isn’t waiting around to find out whether a recount will be legally required. 

[Padma]

And Trump, because he is completely opposed to corruption in government and has long argued against the "rigged system" is fully supporting the recounts in all three states.

Oh, darn! You all knew I was just kidding!   OF COURSE, our corrupt P*OS is trying to stop the recounts any way that he can. Which is particularly telling since ALL THREE STATES already owned up to wrongly giving several thousands of "incorrectly counted" votes to Trump--including Pennsylvania where just the threat of a recount got them to "corrected" the total, deducting over 22,000 that really shouldn't have gone to Trump (or, apparently, to anyone) at all!  Nonexistent voters voting for Tubby! Where have we heard about something like that before?

Here's the article in WashPost about it. (Pet peeve. They and HuffPo headline it as "Trump SUPPORTERS fight recount...".   In reality, it's the TRUMP campaign that is fighting the recount in all three states.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-supporters-aggressively-challenge-stein-recount-efforts-in-three-states/2016/12/02/bfc4d256-b8bb-11e6-959c-172c82123976_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_transitionweb-330pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.f4f46c7889c9

1 hour ago, theredhead77 said:

Are the MI and PA recounts actually funded and going to happen? I literally just.can't.even. bring myself to open the news.

Stein has $6.8 million and has submitted recount requests in all three states. But Trump's contesting them and the courts will have to decide to let the count go on or not. (In one state--maybe Michigan?--the Republican AG has filed a motion to stop the recount.  (Did someone say "rigged system"?)

[Constantinople]

Is it possible the phone call was a misunderstanding?  That Trump thought Taiwan Garden was calling him back about a take out order?  Or to see if General Tso could serve as White House Chef?

[BW Manilowe]

On 12/1/2016 at 0:04 PM, Rapunzel said:

He won the right to lease the building back in 2012. It is a 60 year lease and costs him $3million per year to start, but can go up due to inflation as well as the overall success of the hotel. When he acquired the lease, he did extensive renovations on the property that cost about $200million (again, probably all borrowed from foreign banks).

Given the hotel's location right on Pennsylvania Avenue, he very well could have had some political aspirations in his head when he leased it. When was the event/dinner held where Obama made fun of him that many people think really motivated him to run for office?

On another note, I would love it if they did an episode of Hotel Hell or a similar type show on one of Trump's hotels. They would have to have Gordon Ramsey or some other host go in not knowing who the hotel belonged to in order to keep it completely unbiased. I would just love to see Ramsey or someone get out their black light and look for stains and their little bacteria meter and what not - it would crack me up if one of his properties was found to be completely disgusting and unsanitary. I guess by just having his name on them they pretty much are those things already though.

It was the White House Correspondents' Association's Annual Dinner, & it was the night before Obama managed to get Osama Bin Laden killed by 1 of our SEAL teams. It may or may not have been after Trump started talking about running for POTUS but then didn't follow through or bailed before getting to the Primaries part of the process... Which may be what Obama was mocking him about: being all talk, & no action.

The WHCA Annual Dinner is a SUPER BIG, all-weekend, deal in DC, which attracts a Who's Who from pretty much all areas of celebrity from DC & NY, & other places, all the way to Hollywood (the celebs are usually invited by the various TV networks & other media organizations in the WHCA to sit at their dinner tables, & they spend the weekend before the dinner attending other related parties & meals, & they get in some schmoozing there for their pet causes, since a number of politicos attend the preliminary events as well as the WHCA Dinner); it's emceed by a nationally-known comedian (like Jay Leno, Rich Little, Seth Meyers, & a female from SNL whose name I can't remember right now--maybe Kate McKinnon?) or a political-type comedic commentator, like you'd find on Comedy Central (like Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, & Larry Willmore, who had a show on Comedy Central that I think was recently cancelled, who was this year's emcee). And it's broadcast annually on C-SPAN (well at least the pre-dinner red carpet, the awards/scholarships presentations, & the part at the end, where the guest comedian/comedienne & POTUS each do a "bit", are aired). After dinner & a number of awards & scholarships are presented the emcee does a short set, trying to be inoffensive, then they introduce POTUS. POTUS then gives a comedic-type speech about his year to date, life in the White House, life in Washington, etc. (that's gonna be really interesting to see Trump do that the next 4 years--but he has hosted SNL at least once before, so maybe he can call on that experience for it).

On 11/30/2016 at 10:28 PM, Toomuchsoap said:

If I got Lawrence O'Donnel right tonight, 1300 jobs are still going to Mexico, and Pence-Goul just okayed a multi-  year tax deal that will pay Carrier $400 thousand per year (or an amount about that) to leave. 

Not all of them, but a good chunk of those 1300 (or whatever it is) jobs still going to Mexico, are in a factory the deal declined to save in a smaller town a county, or a few counties, away from the city where I live. Part of them are still in the factory Trump & Pence are taking credit for "saving". The fact they declined to save the other factory as well is big news in this area, or at least it was after Trump's announcement.

On 12/1/2016 at 6:18 PM, Broderbits said:

I'm feeling the need to be purely superficial: who, besides Nugent, would play at any of this turd's inauguration festivities? What fashion designer would want to dress Melanoma?

I saw something either Thursday or Friday saying Garth Brooks would play at the Inauguration (I don't think/know if he's been asked, & I didn't read the linked article, but the headline, Tweet, or whatever it was said he would). I think it was meant in an "if I'm asked" sense.

And I don't think/know if it was because he, &/or his wife, fellow country singer/TV cooking show host/sometime actress Trisha Yearwood, supported Trump in the election (though many country singers have been known to support Republican candidates over Democrats).

Particularly since Garth & Trisha (who just released a new joint Christmas CD of duet versions of Christmas/holiday songs, Christmas Together) also just performed at the last Annual National Christmas Tree Lighting ceremony of the (Democratic) Obama administration, which was held on the National Mall Thursday night.

I think, because he'd just performed for a Democratic POTUS & was talking about performing for the new, Republican, POTUS his comment was meant in an "if I'm asked, because it's for the President (regardless of their political party)" thing.

[candall]

7 hours ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

...

And the New York Daily News thinks that Rachel needs to dial down. Uh no, she's actually doing work and reporting the news. They just think she's been acting over the top lately.

They better back the hell off Rachel!!!

7 hours ago, Lunata said:

I'd like to know what any of the Trump mouthpieces will explain any of this. Can Kellyanne Conway really be able to come up with some plausible reason that will not sound totally ridiculous?  And what about all his supporters, do they not care at all what he's doing because they want to make American great again and think this is how it's going to be accomplished?  I want to hear their opinions.

Not KC, but I saw an older white guy surrogate say, with a straight face:  "This is exactly what the people want.  He's shaking up the status quo!  He's fresh, he has his own style of doing things, he's breaking down the old barriers, he knows what he's doing, what's the problem?"  (The other people on the split screen all had their eyes bugging out of their heads.)

2 hours ago, Padma said:

...

Here's the article in WashPost about it. (Pet peeve. They and HuffPo headline it as "Trump SUPPORTERS fight recount...".   In reality, it's the TRUMP campaign that is fighting the recount in all three states.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-supporters-aggressively-challenge-stein-recount-efforts-in-three-states/2016/12/02/bfc4d256-b8bb-11e6-959c-172c82123976_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_transitionweb-330pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.f4f46c7889c9

Stein has $6.8 million and has submitted recount requests in all three states. But Trump's contesting them and the courts will have to decide to let the count go on or not. (In one state--maybe Michigan?--the Republican AG has filed a motion to stop the recount.  (Did someone say "rigged system"?)

The Michigan AG is trying to stop the "needless, unnecessary" recount on the grounds that it will cost Michigan taxpayers one million dollars.  Well, that's not transparent at all, considering Stein's standing there with millions of dollars in her hand to cover the recount costs and expenses.

2 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Is it possible the phone call was a misunderstanding?  That Trump thought Taiwan Garden was calling him back about a take out order?  Or to see if General Tso could serve as White House Chef?

Or Secretary of State!

[scriggle]

5 hours ago, backformore said:

Trump is being friendly with Taiwan.  SO - is it a blunder?  something he did because he's ignorant, and has NO IDEA how much that will piss off China? (because they don't recognize Taiwan as a separate entity)  Yeah, that's possible.

OR - did he do it on purpose?   It was reported some time ago that Trump owed several millions to Chinese banks.  Think of all the times Trump has talked about "jobs going to China"  and how he spits out "CHINA!"  like it's a disgusting word he can hardly stand to say.  I think it's possible that he wanted to do something to "Show China who is the boss", and assert his authority by doing this.  And, it might mean that someone (Bannon?  Putin?)  may have suggested  that a phone call to Taiwan would be a good idea. 

I wish I knew - is this a stumble, is it  a deliberate act,  is it an act of a puppet master?   Nevertheless, it scares me to death.   We don't need to go to war with China right now.  

If so, it's even more stupid. China holds a lot of US debt. If they get pissed at the Orange Menace and decide to call in the billions or trillions(?) the US owes, our economy is fucked.

[Duke Silver]

Seriously....Imma stay inside my condo all weekend, I think.  If I encounter a whiny Trump supporter, I will unleash....

https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/804794257961865220

[fishcakes]

2 hours ago, scriggle said:

If so, it's even more stupid. China holds a lot of US debt. If they get pissed at the Orange Menace and decide to call in the billions or trillions(?) the US owes, our economy is fucked.

It's 1.25 trillion. They hold more U.S. debt than any other country. The week after the election, my financial advisor sent me bulletins that different investment houses were putting out (I've been his client since 2000 and this is the first time this has happened after an election), basically saying, "we have no idea what's going to happen, but don't panic right now because you're probably going to want to panic later." I think that time is near.

5 hours ago, BW Manilowe said:

Not all of them, but a good chunk of those 1300 (or whatever it is) jobs still going to Mexico, are in a factory the deal declined to save in a smaller town a county, or a few counties, away from the city where I live. Part of them are still in the factory Trump & Pence are taking credit for "saving". The fact they declined to save the other factory as well is big news in this area, or at least it was after Trump's announcement.

The other part of the story is that one of the reasons why Carrier was losing jobs was because in 2014 Pence signed off on dismantling Indiana's energy program, which had been a job creator and had stimulated investment in green energy. Carrier was one of the companies that asked him to veto the bill killing the program, but he turned them down. Of course I'm sure that Donald and Mike would say, "oh but those are those fake green jobs that you socialists are always trying to say are necessary to prove your global warming hoax. Those aren't the good old American jobs that people are used to. Americans should not have to learn new jobs. They should be able to keep being coal miners and blacksmiths and run livery stables like they did when America was great."

13 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

Speaking of Omarosa, and take this with a grain of salt, but I saw a blind item a few months or so ago that sounds like it's her, and it basically said that Drumpf used her as a "closer" when he needed to send someone in to sleep with someone to close a deal.

But wouldn't the deal fall through anyway when she killed and ate the guy after mating?

Edited December 3, 2016 by fishcakes

[KerleyQ]

11 hours ago, Lunata said:

I'd like to know what any of the Trump mouthpieces will explain any of this. Can Kellyanne Conway really be able to come up with some plausible reason that will not sound totally ridiculous?  And what about all his supporters, do they not care at all what he's doing because they want to make American great again and think this is how it's going to be accomplished?  I want to hear their opinions.

His supporters are all "see!  He's tough!  He's not going to roll over and let China dictate who he can speak to!!" macho BS.  Hand to God, one of them even tweeted a photoshopped picture of Drumpf's head on The Hulk to express how much of those there foreign asses he's going to kick.  There is a segment of his supporters who could witness Trump actually taking a shit on their beloved Nana, and they'd talk about how Trump's superior feces are delivering life extending super vitamins to Nana's system.  

10 hours ago, Lunata said:

About an Australian missionary who was raped and murdered:  "I saw her face and I thought: 'What a pity ... they raped her, they all lined up. I was mad she was raped but she was so beautiful. I thought, the mayor should have been first."

Raise your hand if you can picture Emperor Drumpf saying something very similar to this.  

7 hours ago, Padma said:

Stein has $6.8 million and has submitted recount requests in all three states. But Trump's contesting them and the courts will have to decide to let the count go on or not. (In one state--maybe Michigan?--the Republican AG has filed a motion to stop the recount.  (Did someone say "rigged system"?)

And that Michigan AG delivered this gem as justification for stopping the recount - "We need to protect the voice of our voters to ensure that their votes count."  (I paraphrased, because I have a headache, and digging through his bullshit to find the exact quote will explode my brain, but that is the gist of it).  Yes, protect the integrity of your voters' voices by not allowing a recount to ensure that all of their voices are properly heard.  

1 hour ago, Duke Silver said:

Seriously....Imma stay inside my condo all weekend, I think.  If I encounter a whiny Trump supporter, I will unleash....

https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/804794257961865220

Ugh, this evil bitch.  Yes actually, it is your fault, Medusa.  You spent over a year stumping for the man to a large audience, breathlessly reporting his every lie as gospel truth, even when a bare minimum of fact-checking would have told you he was just saying whatever he thought his audience wanted to hear in any given moment.  You didn't even get a clue when, around the time of is visit to Mexico, he started publicly waffling on your soul mate - The Wall.  So, yeah, you being stupid and using your platform (which still boggles my mind) to encourage your fans to be equally stupid?  That's your fault.  Own it, bitch.  

[theredhead77]

5 hours ago, BW Manilowe said:

I saw something either Thursday or Friday saying Garth Brooks would play at the Inauguration (I don't think/know if he's been asked, & I didn't read the linked article, but the headline, Tweet, or whatever it was said he would). I think it was meant in an "if I'm asked" sense.

And I don't think/know if it was because he, &/or his wife, fellow country singer/TV cooking show host/sometime actress Trisha Yearwood, supported Trump in the election (though many country singers have been known to support Republican candidates over Democrats).

Particularly since Garth & Trisha (who just released a new joint Christmas CD of duet versions of Christmas/holiday songs, Christmas Together) also just performed at the last Annual National Christmas Tree Lighting ceremony of the (Democratic) Obama administration, which was held on the National Mall Thursday night.

I think, because he'd just performed for a Democratic POTUS & was talking about performing for the new, Republican, POTUS his comment was meant in an "if I'm asked, because it's for the President (regardless of their political party)" thing.

I sure hope he's not one of those Trump supporters. I love country music (including Garth) and it's really hard being a liberal country music fan. I was able to reconcile Toby Keith's support of the Iraq War and 'entertainment war' with the Dixie Chicks but I'm not sure how I'd be able to reconcile my love for someone like Kenny Chesney or Garth if I found out they support Trump.

7 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Is it possible the phone call was a misunderstanding?  That Trump thought Taiwan Garden was calling him back about a take out order?  Or to see if General Tso could serve as White House Chef?

Or was attempting to offer condolences on the death of Chef Peng Chang-kuei, creator of General Tsos chicken but got confused and thought a high ranking military leader died.

[sistermagpie]

9 hours ago, backformore said:

I wish I knew - is this a stumble, is it  a deliberate act,  is it an act of a puppet master?   Nevertheless, it scares me to death.   We don't need to go to war with China right now.  

And he’s already lied about it like a sulky teenager, tweeting about how Taiwan CALLED HIM (as if that would make a difference) and right away Taiwan corrected him that the phone call had been arranged in advance on both sides.

One of the many things that amazes me about his supporters is how they think he’s strong when he’s so obviously a coward. Like they don’t know what true strength looks like. If Obama talks to world leaders respectfully they think he’s being spineless, literally bowing down to them, when really it’s just that people who are secure aren’t afraid to treat others with respect.

With Trump, as was stated above, some are trying to take this as some big tough move against China as if China was telling him, personally, who to talk to and look, he’s already trying to blame it on Taiwan as if once the number came up on his phone he just had to take it out of politeness. He’s literally trying to hide behind the President of Taiwan and they think he’s being tough with China. And the thing is, I suspect even China knows that if anyone here was being ballsy it was President Tsai Ing-Wen and not Trump. But if he’d have been President when this happened they’d have cut off diplomatic relations. You can’t handle diplomatic relations with China like you’re a tourist demanding silverware instead of chopsticks and speaking English loudly and slowly to store clerks.

Then there’s the Tweet where he talks about how it’s “interesting” we can sell weapons to Taiwan but he can’t take a phone call. As Rachael Maddow said on her show—yes, it is interesting. It’s a complicated situation. And if you were actually interested there are many people dying to explain to you how it works. Instead he just wants to keep his status as the ignorant outsider commenting on all this stuff from his easy chair at home. Like when he said in the debates that he “couldn’t see any reason” for the military to ever say what their plans were, as if this meant that obviously the military was being a dum-dum or doing something shady.

[callmebetty]

"Everybody loves Obama ,  why can he take phone calls? I mean someone wants to tell me how great I am why can't I take the call, I won bigly so what? Maybe China should call me too and tell me how great I am. Is that so hard? Obama gets to do whatever he wants and everybody loves him, everybody should love me!" Waa Waa, where's my twitter pacifier ?

[AntiBeeSpray]

12 hours ago, Jediknight said:

How long before Drumpf tweets something classified and gets American soldiers killed because of it?

And he can talk about how the "establishment" is so afraid of him, they kicked him out.

And that's the $100 million dollar question. How long will it before he does that. Puts our country at risk.

Yep. Pence is a threat to a lot of people, but at least he's familiar with politics. And here's to hoping that he too and the rest of their cronies can be kicked out some how.

2 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

His supporters are all "see!  He's tough!  He's not going to roll over and let China dictate who he can speak to!!" macho BS.  Hand to God, one of them even tweeted a photoshopped picture of Drumpf's head on The Hulk to express how much of those there foreign asses he's going to kick.  There is a segment of his supporters who could witness Drumpf actually taking a shit on their beloved Nana, and they'd talk about how Drumpf's superior feces are delivering life extending super vitamins to Nana's system.  

Raise your hand if you can picture Emperor Drumpf saying something very similar to this.  

And that Michigan AG delivered this gem as justification for stopping the recount - "We need to protect the voice of our voters to ensure that their votes count."  (I paraphrased, because I have a headache, and digging through his bullshit to find the exact quote will explode my brain, but that is the gist of it).  Yes, protect the integrity of your voters' voices by not allowing a recount to ensure that all of their voices are properly heard.  

Ugh, this evil bitch.  Yes actually, it is your fault, Medusa.  You spent over a year stumping for the man to a large audience, breathlessly reporting his every lie as gospel truth, even when a bare minimum of fact-checking would have told you he was just saying whatever he thought his audience wanted to hear in any given moment.  You didn't even get a clue when, around the time of is visit to Mexico, he started publicly waffling on your soul mate - The Wall.  So, yeah, you being stupid and using your platform (which still boggles my mind) to encourage your fans to be equally stupid?  That's your fault.  Own it, bitch.  

Uh no (at the AG). That's not protecting them at all. It's just protecting your own interests.

[SmithW6079]

I really don't think there will be a lack of celebrities to play or attend the inauguration. All those closeted Republican celebrities will be able to come out of the closet, as it were, and even for those who aren't Republicans, power and proximity to it are draws, no matter the politics. Look at all those Republicans who opposed Trump; -- they're all rolling over in submission and standing behind Trump.

There are no such things as principles at that level, Republican or Democrat.

I read a few of those "Trumpgrets." They didn't seem of the variety "oh no, we elected a madman," but more of "he's not being insane enough."

Edited December 3, 2016 by SmithW6079

[Duke Silver]

https://twitter.com/dynarski/status/804821111955460096

[Ohwell]

He got punk'd by the female President of Taiwan.  I bet orange face is fuming.

[AntiBeeSpray]

22 minutes ago, Duke Silver said:

https://twitter.com/dynarski/status/804821111955460096

He's going to need it.

China is pissed.

Source: ft.com

[Lunata]

It's barely a month since the election and there are a growing number of Trump voters who are claiming that they're being discriminated against by non-whites. 49% of Trump voters think increasing diversity comes at the expense of white Americans. They feel diversity is hurting them. Whites take for granted the normalcy of what it's like to be white. They feel they're being oppressed.  If they think getting slow service at a Starbuck's is oppression then clearly they've never been racially profiled by the NY or Chicago police department and asked for identification or frisked because of their color. If they think being asked to pay $1 for a reusable bag at a arts and crafts store is oppression, then they've never been choked out on the streets of Staten Island like Eric Garner was, oppression is being chased down by a  police officer at a distance of 17 feet and shot in the back and we still can't get a conviction for that cop. It's bizarre to have won, and feel discriminated against. This woman was asked to pay $1 at an arts and crafts store instead of a disposable plastic bag. There have already been many documented instances of Trump voters feeling discriminated against, a lot of them are posted on Youtube. This is one. It's just bizarre that they won the election and still feel discriminated against. (cue the non-white, Muslim and Hispanic groans)

 

The Chinese government issued a formal complaint against Donald Trump and his phone call to Taiwan, it's not just a hollow complaint. I will never believe that Taiwan or Pakistan ever place the call, I'm 100% convinced this was Donald Trump's doing, he's that stupid to do such things.  In a statement Friday evening, the White House reaffirmed the "One China" policy.

"We remain firmly committed to our 'one China' policy based on the three Joint Communiques and the Taiwan Relations Act," Ned Price, a spokesman for the US National Security Council, said. "Our fundamental interest is in peaceful and stable cross-Strait relations."

For the time being, the Obama administration is being forced to cover up for Trump with China, smooth over blunders and make it clear to China what our stand is regarding the China and Taiwan dispute. Trump risked a showdown with China. He's either oblivious to what that risk was, or he actually wants that to happen. He's in debt to China for billions of dollars personally. Donald Trump isn't messing around her and he's not even officially President yet so what could he possibly have up his sleeve for the future of the other things that affect our lives deeply? This is bad, no kidding. This was scary stuff that only got to another level of scary. Yeah, I'll say it.  I think he's the biblical anti-Christ.

"Politics is a war without bloodshed,  war is politics with bloodshed"

Edited December 3, 2016 by Lunata

[scriggle]

Trump Suffers Two Big Defeats As His Efforts To Stop Michigan And Wisconsin Recounts Fail

Quote

Donald Trump tried to get the recounts stopped in Wisconsin and Michigan, and he has failed in both states.

In Wisconsin, “U.S. District Judge James Peterson on Friday rejected their request for a temporary restraining order to immediately halt the recount, saying there was no harm in allowing it to continue while the court considers their lawsuit. A hearing on the lawsuit is scheduled for Dec. 9.”

Earlier in Michigan, the Secretary of State announced that the State Board of Canvassers rejected Trump’s objection to the recount:

These are the first two rounds in what is certain to be an intense legal battle over the recounts. However getting the recounts halted looks like it will be much more difficult that Trump allies hoped.

In a statement, Jill Stein asked what Trump is so afraid of, “In an election already tainted by suspicion, previously expressed by Donald Trump himself, verifying the vote is a common-sense procedure that would address concerns around voter disenfranchisement. Trump’s desperate attempts to silence voter demands raise a simple question: why is Donald Trump afraid of these recounts?”

Trump’s lead in Pennsylvania has been cut nearly in half, and his margin is close to triggering an automatic recount. The odds are still long that recounts will flip the election to Hillary Clinton, but it looks like the Republicans are in for a fight that they never expected on the recounts.

Rounds one and two went to the American people, but more battles will need to be won if the American people are to get the recount that they deserve.

 

[SoSueMe]

14 hours ago, Toomuchsoap said:

I still have a niggling suspicion that he actually wants someone - something- to remove him from this yoke of responsibility. I think the only things that're valuable about this job as far as he's concerned are the business contacts he can meet.

I was just thinking the same thing. I love imagining him, scared spitless,  with one of his lawyers trying to figure out how to get out of this and be able to play the victim. Can you just see it, "So, Mikey (Cohen) or Danny (Petrucelli) or whoever, what's this about a 25th amendment? I've already pissed off Sarah and Ann, this should be doable, no?"

http://www.snopes.com/can-the-25th-amendment-prevent-a-trump-presidency/

http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/the-wrap/article/Ann-Coulter-Sarah-Palin-Already-Mad-at-Donald-10688601.php

[AntiBeeSpray]

5 minutes ago, scriggle said:

Drumpf Suffers Two Big Defeats As His Efforts To Stop Michigan And Wisconsin Recounts Fail

 

Oh heck yes! Good for Wisconsin and Michigan.

[sleekandchic]

Ted Cruz is actually all right with the Taiwan call? Moron:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ted-cruz-applauds-trump-s-precedent-defying-call-with-taiwan

Meanwhile, China has issued a warning to Trump.  Lovely:

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/china-directs-warning-to-trump-after-his-controversial-call-with-taiwan

Things I've learned from this thread and online news:

Trump spoke to the Taiwanese prez about his desire to see Trump hotels go up there.

Trump owns a $250K investment in United Technologies, Carrier's parent.

Trump has hosted meetings with Japanese and Pakistani govt officials,  when he also spoke about his properties in those two countries.

So hasn't Trump already crossed lines?  Isn't his impeachment inevitable?  Or have the Republicans on Capitol Hill decided to excuse and to lie for Trump, no matter what his transgression?

And Pence as prez scares me just as much.

Maybe Trump WANTS to be impeached?  WANTS the trial as a glittery, daily Reality Show with himself as STAR!   I mean, he really isn't interested in the Presidency. Too boring for him I guess. Asshole.

P.S. I despise kellyanne conway.   My hatred is palpable.

[potatoradio]

Quote

He got punk'd by the female President of Taiwan.  I bet orange face is fuming

Not only a woman, but a leader of the left of center democratic progressive party. Thanks for supporting those overseas crazy librulls, Tubby! Didn't know your Onceler economics crossed such lines. 

[Padma]

40 minutes ago, Lunata said:

It's barely a month since the election and there are a growing number of Trump voters who are claiming that they're being discriminated against by non-whites. 49% of Trump voters think increasing diversity comes at the expense of white Americans. They feel diversity is hurting them. Whites take for granted the normalcy of what it's like to be white. They feel they're being oppressed.  If they think getting slow service at a Starbuck's is oppression then clearly they've never been racially profiled by the NY or Chicago police department and asked for identification or frisked because of their color. If they think being asked to pay $1 for a reusable bag at a arts and crafts store is oppression, then they've never been choked out on the streets of Staten Island like Eric Garner was, oppression is being chased down by a  police officer at a distance of 17 feet and shot in the back and we still can't get a conviction for that cop. It's bizarre to have won, and feel discriminated against. This woman was asked to pay $1 at an arts and crafts store instead of a disposable plastic bag. There have already been many documented instances of Trump voters feeling discriminated against, a lot of them are posted on Youtube. This is one. It's just bizarre that they won the election and still feel discriminated against. (cue the non-white, Muslim and Hispanic groans)

 

 

The Chinese government issued a formal complaint against Donald Trump and his phone call to Taiwan, it's not just a hollow complaint. I will never believe that Taiwan or Pakistan ever place the call, I'm 100% convinced this was Donald Trump's doing, he's that stupid to do such things.  In a statement Friday evening, the White House reaffirmed the "One China" policy.

"We remain firmly committed to our 'one China' policy based on the three Joint Communiques and the Taiwan Relations Act," Ned Price, a spokesman for the US National Security Council, said. "Our fundamental interest is in peaceful and stable cross-Strait relations."

For the time being, the Obama administration is being forced to cover up for Trump with China, smooth over blunders and make it clear to China what our stand is regarding the China and Taiwan dispute. Trump risked a showdown with China. He's either oblivious to what that risk was, or he actually wants that to happen.

I don't know why people--including Rachel--speculate it was a strategy of some kind. "Know your enemy." A country wants to call and congratulate him? Tubby's ego is all on board for it.  To him "Taiwan" is just another country, one where he might even put a hotel.  Since the call was prearranged, one of the kids was probably on hand for it, too.   (I like the joke up above--wouldn't be surprised to see it on SNL if not already "out there"--that he took the call because he thought it was about his take out order.)

He was asked very little about foreign policy during the debate, but when he was, he showed he knew very little. As months passed, he never seemed to learn any more.  He isn't curious. He thinks he knows it all or can just rely on his amazing instincts. 

Personally, I'm HAPPY he's had this awful week of diplomatic blunders.  Better now than when he's POTUS.  Tubby won't learn anything from it (except, "the media spins everything against me!" and "this job has a lot of really stupid 'rules' that I'm going to break).  But someone around him--Mattis, maybe even Flynn--will hopefully look for ways to keep him under control in the future.

On a different note, CNN ruined my weekend with this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2016/12/02/jeffrey-lord-re-ups-with-cnn-for-2017/?utm_term=.6b4a0bf0e118&wpisrc=nl_opinions&wpmm=1

I thought--hoped and prayed--that all their lying commentators would be gone after the election and leave us wit just, you know, journalists and some people they occasionally interview.  Apparently those awful panels that add ZERO value, are here to stay. :( :( :(

[BW Manilowe]

3 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

I sure hope he's not one of those Trump supporters. I love country music (including Garth) and it's really hard being a liberal country music fan. I was able to reconcile Toby Keith's support of the Iraq War and 'entertainment war' with the Dixie Chicks but I'm not sure how I'd be able to reconcile my love for someone like Kenny Chesney or Garth if I found out they support Trump.

Well, like I said in my post, considering he played (with Trisha) an event involving the current Democratic POTUS, Obama, & then said he'd play the inauguration of Trump, a Republican, it's kinda hard to figure out which side, if any, he actually supports.

I finally Googled & went back & read articles based on the comment about him playing for Trump. They pointed out that he didn't publicly support either candidate in the most recent election, & that he both played at at least 1 inaugural event for Obama &, back in 2010, made publicly supportive comments about him & how hard the job of US President must be. At some point, he also said, in either The Hill or the Los Angeles Times (the 2 articles I looked at before posting this), something like voting should be more about the issues, because the parties are starting to get in the way of getting things done. And they said that he said, if he were asked--which he hasn't been... yet--he would be open to performing at Trump's inaugural, "in the interest of service" (or something close to that--basically, like I also said before, he'd do it because it was for the President even if that wasn't "his" preferred President).

And... I think The Hill's article said that 1 singer who definitely won't be performing at Trump's inauguration is Elton John, who openly supported, & performed for, Hillary during the campaign.

[backformore]

2 hours ago, Lunata said:

The Chinese government issued a formal complaint against Donald Trump and his phone call to Taiwan, it's not just a hollow complaint. I will never believe that Taiwan or Pakistan ever place the call, I'm 100% convinced this was Donald Trump's doing, he's that stupid to do such things.  In a statement Friday evening, the White House reaffirmed the "One China" policy.

"We remain firmly committed to our 'one China' policy based on the three Joint Communiques and the Taiwan Relations Act," Ned Price, a spokesman for the US National Security Council, said. "Our fundamental interest is in peaceful and stable cross-Strait relations."

For the time being, the Obama administration is being forced to cover up for Trump with China, smooth over blunders and make it clear to China what our stand is regarding the China and Taiwan dispute. Trump risked a showdown with China. He's either oblivious to what that risk was, or he actually wants that to happen. He's in debt to China for billions of dollars personally. Donald Trump isn't messing around her and he's not even officially President yet so what could he possibly have up his sleeve for the future of the other things that affect our lives deeply? This is bad, no kidding. This was scary stuff that only got to another level of scary. Yeah, I'll say it.  I think he's the biblical anti-Christ.

"Politics is a war without bloodshed,  war is politics with bloodshed"

Imagine the conversation when the leader of China calls Obama to complain about the incoming idiot.

But also -  wasn't it just a couple of days ago that Trump talked about how he was going to give up his role in all his businesses to devote all his energies to the presidency?  So he was going to eliminate any conflict of interest?   And then, what 24-48 hours later he's talking to the Taiwan president about building HOTELS?  This is so wrong - we can't have businesses with the name of the president on them  in other countries !! Remember when they forced Jimmy Carter to give up all interest in the family peanut farm?  And that was just one business. 

[rcc]

Taiwan called to congratulate Trump on his victory. Trump called them back because he saw an opportunity to have his ego stroked. Nothing more than that I think. Trump simply can't resist a compliment. Hence his damn victory tour to indulge in more applause and hoopla.

[Lunata]

2 hours ago, Padma said:

On a different note, CNN ruined my weekend with this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2016/12/02/jeffrey-lord-re-ups-with-cnn-for-2017/?utm_term=.6b4a0bf0e118&wpisrc=nl_opinions&wpmm=1

I thought--hoped and prayed--that all their lying commentators would be gone after the election and leave us wit just, you know, journalists and some people they occasionally interview.  Apparently those awful panels that add ZERO value, are here to stay. :( :( :(

You know it could have been much worse, right? CNN could have hired someone like Katrina Pierson or Betsy Mccaughey.  I couldn't stand staring up Betsy's nostrils or wanting to run to the television and slap the fake smile off of Katrina's face.  All and any Trump surrogate has taken on a demonic persona in my mind. To me they're all arrogant, lying, stupid people that I don't want to watch on CNN. I love it when one of them gets eviscerated by Ana Navarro, Angela Rye or Van Jones. If nothing else, Jeffrey Lord is on record disagreeing with something Donald Trump has said, and that's in regard to criminalizing anyone that burns the American flag in protest. I don't like him but I can tolerate him, unlike the others that just make my eyes see red.

1 hour ago, backformore said:

Imagine the conversation when the leader of China calls Obama to complain about the incoming idiot.

But also -  wasn't it just a couple of days ago that Trump talked about how he was going to give up his role in all his businesses to devote all his energies to the presidency?  So he was going to eliminate any conflict of interest?   And then, what 24-48 hours later he's talking to the Taiwan president about building HOTELS?  This is so wrong - we can't have businesses with the name of the president on them  in other countries !! Remember when they forced Jimmy Carter to give up all interest in the family peanut farm?  And that was just one business. 

Jimmy Carter is 92 years old and would still make a better replacement for Donald Trump as President. That's pretty sad.

[windsprints]

Glad NYC is doing this but I'm sure he'll make sure it doesn't happen. So what if he puts a massive financial strain on the city because hey, he'll make 3 million a year on it.

NYC officials petition feds to pay $1M daily Trump security costs

[backformore]

28 minutes ago, rcc said:

Taiwan called to congratulate Trump on his victory. Trump called them back because he saw an opportunity to have his ego stroked. Nothing more than that I think. Trump simply can't resist a compliment. Hence his damn victory tour to indulge in more applause and hoopla.

Yeah, that's what Trump  is saying.   But that's not what happened: Donald Trump Speaks To Taiwan’s President, Reversing Decades Of U.S. Policy

Quote

Trump said on Twitter Friday evening that Tsai initiated the phone call. 

But the Taipei Times reported the call was arranged by Trump’s “Taiwan-friendly campaign staff after his aides briefed him on issues regarding Taiwan and the situation in the Taiwan Strait.”

[Padma]

33 minutes ago, Lunata said:

You know it could have been much worse, right? CNN could have hired someone like Katrina Pierson or Betsy Mccaughey.  I couldn't stand staring up Betsy's nostrils or wanting to run to the television and slap the fake smile off of Katrina's face.  All and any Trump surrogate has taken on a demonic persona in my mind. To me they're all arrogant, lying, stupid people that I don't want to watch on CNN.

Do we know that Lord's the only one who will be rehired? I figured the writing was on the wall to bring all of them back.

Quote

I love it when one of them gets eviscerated by Ana Navarro, Angela Rye or Van Jones.

I think you've just hit on why Jeff Zucker (CNN Pres formerly of NBC Entertainment)  has fallen in love with this format.  It makes politics into entertainment, almost like a sport, where we can root for our favorite "team" on CNN and hope we will see them vanquish their opponent that day.  Makes sense, from that point of view, as ratings have been up.

[candall]

Well, from over in the "What Now?" thread, I just read (link) that one woman in charge of the recount in her Wisconsin county has discovered, and posted photos, that five of the nine electronic voting machines had broken seals, leaving them vulnerable to tampering, AND that Wisconsin increased the price of the original $1.1M estimate given to Jill Stein to $3.5M!!

Something's fishy in Denmark Wisconsin.

Every "recount" article I read has T losing votes.  In Pennsylvania, oops, they found out a few--22,000--of their T votes weren't real, even before the recount started.   Um . . . pardon?  Please to elaborate on that just a bit. 

It's true that I'm biased, but I'm not trying to limit myself to the articles where T votes look increasingly suspicious--I think that's just what's happening!

As if I could possibly be any more pissed, I'm waiting for everyone to just say, "Oh well, the election results do look kind of sketchy, but we've come this far with Big Orange, might as well keep going and not make a fuss. [shrug]"  I know this is what's going to happen. 

And then will it be five years, or fifty, before the whole truth comes out?

(Mr. Obama, sir, you really let me down on that whole classified Russian/election connection thing.)

.

Edited December 3, 2016 by candall

[Ceindreadh]

10 minutes ago, backformore said:

Yeah, that's what Trump  is saying.   But that's not what happened: Donald Trump Speaks To Taiwan’s President, Reversing Decades Of U.S. Policy

Trump said on Twitter Friday evening that Tsai initiated the phone call. 

But the Taipei Times reported the call was arranged by Trump’s “Taiwan-friendly campaign staff after his aides briefed him on issues regarding Taiwan and the situation in the Taiwan Strait.”

 

Translation, Trump got briefed on how much money he could make from building a hotel in Taiwan. 

[rcc]

So he spins it like Taiwan wants to congratulate him but his "campaign staff" initiated it. A liar who lies! Not surprised.

[theredhead77]

I just want to give a shout-out of grateful thanks to all of you who are reading / watching the news, and sharing this information. I can't bring myself to read or watch the news at all anymore (if anything major happens I know I'll hear about it).

[Padma]

21 minutes ago, windsprints said:

Glad NYC is doing this but I'm sure he'll make sure it doesn't happen. So what if he puts a massive financial strain on the city because hey, he'll make 3 million a year on it.

NYC officials petition feds to pay $1M daily Trump security costs

"...the estimated $1 million per day cost to secure Trump Tower, while the president-elect and family members are in residence there."

That's $365 million a year it will cost NYC while Melania and Barron stay in Trump Tower. Nearly $1.5 billion for his presidency!  (You know they don't plan to ever move to Washington.)  That doesn't include ANY of the federal government costs just because Tubby and his family don't want to live in the president's home.

Hey, Tubby! Life in DC was part of the job.  Stop being an entitled brat, suck it up, and do what the job entails. You are NOT going to be running Trump Organization any more! Get yourself and your family to Washington and do the job that you wanted and were HIRED FOR!!!!

[numbnut]

2 hours ago, sleekandchic said:

Maybe Trump WANTS to be impeached?

I know he wants out ("This is a bigger job than I thought") but an impeachment would force him to admit that he's a criminal and/or an idiot. His ego won't allow that. He may be impeached but I'm sure he's mulling other ways to step down. He'll probably fake a health issue like he did to avoid Vietnam.

[sistermagpie]

12 minutes ago, numbnut said:

I know he wants out ("This is a bigger job than I thought") but an impeachment would force him to admit that he's a criminal and/or an idiot. His ego won't allow that. He may be impeached but I'm sure he's mulling other ways to step down. He'll probably fake a health issue like he did to avoid Vietnam.

LOL! I'm sorry, that just make me laugh out loud because I was imagining him walking out to the Rose Garden and dramatically faking a bone spur attack.

[rcc]

12 minutes ago, numbnut said:

I know he wants out ("This is a bigger job than I thought") but an impeachment would force him to admit that he's a criminal and/or an idiot. His ego won't allow that. He may be impeached but I'm sure he's mulling other ways to step down. He'll probably fake a health issue like he did to avoid Vietnam.

From your post to Trump's ears.

Whatever he dreams up, if he in fact dreams something up, can't be soon enough for me. 

[theredhead77]

I know what all us "libtard crybabies" can lose if Pence becomes POTUS; however, with the way things are going, we're probably going to lose a lot of those civil liberties under a Trump Administration. I'm willing to take my chances with Pence, because while us women could lose our rights to our bodies (beyond the right to legal, safe abortion) and our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters could lose their equal rights at least he knows what the fuck to do and is open to learning about how and why things are done with regards to foreign policy. The risk of him destabilizing the entire fucking planet due to a phone call or Tweet are probably significantly lower than they are now with Trump and his antics.

[Lunata]

7 minutes ago, numbnut said:

I know he wants out ("This is a bigger job than I thought") but an impeachment would force him to admit that he's a criminal and/or an idiot. His ego won't allow that. He may be impeached but I'm sure he's mulling other ways to step down. He'll probably fake a health issue like he did to avoid Vietnam.

Seriously, the guy is a 'black hole' as Tony Schwartz has described him. How else can he get this much attention and loving affirmation from thousands of fans other than a rally like his 'thank you' tour. It's not a thank you tour at all, never was intended to be a 'thank you' tour. Has anyone heard him sound thankful at all, or have we only heard "I told you so" and more of the same campaign bullshit as he said the year he campaigned? It was a way for him to refill his black hole. That need was getting low since winning the election and he's a junkie getting his fix. He took some steps to renew the attention with the big show of people coming and going into the club house in New Jersey. He and Pence, and sometime just he alone, stood out in columned portico for the showy display for cameras. I caught sight of him a couple of times after they all went inside the door, him heading left and Pence with the possibly candidate turning right. He wasn't even part of the discussion, he was only there and visible for the attention. He's never going to get enough, you know that right? He demands more and more attention since his campaigning is over with. He'll hang in and hold on to the bitter end. Plans to retreat anywhere are not part of his agenda. He's only going to get worse once his 'thank you' tour and the inauguration is history. What then? Will sitting in the oval office trying to get briefed by someone else about what's going on in the country and the world really going to be enough for this monstrous egomaniac? Oh no, there's more coming, much more. There's nothing he can do that's too outrageous or egregious to prevent this man from refilling his needy black hole.

[Padma]

Hmm. Too bad about the bone spurs. And his doctor has already verified Tubby is the healthiest president in human history, past, present or future.

But...I think I've got it!  What if Melania feins some health issue (fear of leaving her happy life in NYC doesn't count)? Tubby, as a loving husband, would have to resign and stay with her (and his business, etc.) in NY.  Pence would take over and choose someone like Romney as his vp.

They would then give Tubby an honorary title, like "Good Will Ambassador to America" and he would continue to contribute to our great country by making regular "spirit tours" to keep up Americans' spirits! (Taxpayer funded, yes, but isn't that a small price to pay for getting him out of government?)  Give Tubby what he wants--adultation of big crowds and a feeling of power--plus keeping in the spotlight is good for business!

I know it leaves Pence (maybe Pence-Romney) running the country, but seriously, it's better and might let Dems retake Congress in 2018 and the WH in 2020.

[BookWoman56]

2 hours ago, Padma said:

"...the estimated $1 million per day cost to secure Trump Tower, while the president-elect and family members are in residence there."

That's $365 million a year it will cost NYC while Melania and Barron stay in Trump Tower. Nearly $1.5 billion for his presidency!  (You know they don't plan to ever move to Washington.)  That doesn't include ANY of the federal government costs just because Tubby and his family don't want to live in the president's home.

Hey, Tubby! Life in DC was part of the job.  Stop being an entitled brat, suck it up, and do what the job entails. You are NOT going to be running Trump Organization any more! Get yourself and your family to Washington and do the job that you wanted and were HIRED FOR!!!!

Why should NYC have to incur any of those costs? Trump's security is now a federal problem, not the problem of a single city. If I were the NYC officials, I'd  stop providing any security whatsoever to Trump and family and let the SS deal with his security or lack thereof. NYC should not have to pay the cost of catering to the whims of this egomaniacal bastard.

Also, in terms of federal security for Melania and Barron, Trump personally should pay the difference between what it will cost the SS to provide security for them in NYC and what it would have cost to provide security for them in the White House. The idea that he will personally profit from having to place SS agents at his NYC residence when he rents two floors to them is insane. If this were HRC or Obama insisting on this kind of special treatment, then Congress, the media, and the public would be gathering their pitchforks. If you run for POTUS, the expectation is that you and your immediate family will move into the White House because the logistics for SS protection there have been pretty standardized. SS protection for POTUS and family in DC is the standard package, with allowances made for required travel or the occasional vacation. If you as POTUS want to live part-time in another city, and have your spouse and kid live in another city full-time, that's your freaking choice and the expense should be paid by you, not taxpayers. 

[ari333]

Quote

Why should NYC have to incur any of those costs? Trump's security is now a federal problem, not the problem of a single city. If I were the NYC officials, I'd  stop providing any security whatsoever to Trump and family and let the SS deal with his security or lack thereof. NYC should not have to pay the cost of catering to the whims of this egomaniacal bastard.

Also, in terms of federal security for Melania and Barron, Trump personally should pay the difference between what it will cost the SS to provide security for them in NYC and what it would have cost to provide security for them in the White House. The idea that he will personally profit from having to place SS agents at his NYC residence when he rents two floors to them is insane. If this were HRC or Obama insisting on this kind of special treatment, then Congress, the media, and the public would be gathering their pitchforks. If you run for POTUS, the expectation is that you and your immediate family will move into the White House because the logistics for SS protection there have been pretty standardized. SS protection for POTUS and family in DC is the standard package, with allowances made for required travel or the occasional vacation. If you as POTUS want to live part-time in another city, and have your spouse and kid live in another city full-time, that's your freaking choice and the expense should be paid by you, not taxpayers.

THIS ^^^^^^

(Sorry about the other boxes)

[stormy]

Yes ^^^ but, he's not taking the $400,000 salary we should be paying him so why shouldn't we spend $1.5 billion?

Since the republicans will be running everything I guess none of this makes a difference.  I mean it's our duty.

I actually had some small bit of hope that some of the republicans would  stand up to him but that was squashed when he gave McConnell's wife a job in his cabinet.

[partofme]

1 hour ago, stormy said:

A Yes ^^^ but, he's not taking the $400,000 salary we should be paying him so why shouldn't we spend $1.5 billion?

Since the republicans will be running everything I guess none of this makes a difference.  I mean it's our duty.

I actually had some small bit of hope that some of the republicans would  stand up to him but that was squashed when he gave McConnell's wife a job in his cabinet.

I live in nyc, I didn't vote for him and I don't want my taxes increased to protect him.

[cynic]

 Even Sarah Palin has some concerns over the Carrier deal.

Quote

...When government steps in arbitrarily with individual subsidies, favoring one business over others, it sets inconsistent, unfair, illogical precedent. Meanwhile, the invisible hand that best orchestrates a free people’s free enterprise system gets amputated. Then, special interests creep in and manipulate markets. Republicans oppose this, remember? Instead, we support competition on a level playing field, remember? Because we know special interest crony capitalism is one big fail....

Quote

...

But know that fundamentally, political intrusion using a stick or carrot to bribe or force one individual business to do what politicians insist, versus establishing policy incentivizing our ENTIRE ethical economic engine to roar back to life, isn’t the answer. Cajole only chosen ones on Main St or Wall St and watch lines stretch from Washington to Alaska full of businesses threatening to bail unless taxpayers pony up. The lines strangle competition and really, really, dispiritingly screw with workers’ lives. It’s beyond unacceptable, so let’s anticipate equal incentivizes and positive reform all across the field – to make the economy great again....

[Padma]

Jill STein withdrew her recount request in PA today.  And this was after they admitted--before the recount even began--that 22,000 votes that were given to Trump never actually existed. It dropped the difference from 70,000 to 48,000.  Out of 6 million votes cast.

Surely more "mistakes" could be found if a recount took place. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-recount-pennsylvania-idUSKBN13T00L

It makes no sense to keep saying it's "unlikely" the results would change the outcome. If there was widespread cheating (as seems perfectly plausible, given the 22 THOUSAND vote mystery before a recount even starts) and PA, Wisc and Mich should, in reality, have gone to Clinton, why shouldn't that be known?  Why such defeatism and resignation if an election is once again stolen? (Let's not forget the circumstances of the last time a Republican "won" without the popular vote).

I haven't been this disappointed since election night.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Padma

[Dresdengirl]

6 hours ago, numbnut said:

I know he wants out ("This is a bigger job than I thought") but an impeachment would force him to admit that he's a criminal and/or an idiot. His ego won't allow that. He may be impeached but I'm sure he's mulling other ways to step down. He'll probably fake a health issue like he did to avoid Vietnam.

Either would be fine with me.

[TaurusRose]

The more I hear and read about this buffoon, the more I fear the USA will become a nuclear powered banana republic.