S33.E04: Who's The Sucker At The Table?

[needschocolate]

20 hours ago, Etta Place said:

Okay, why did Ken vote for Jessica? He knew Dave had the idol. Did Dave tell him he might play it? I understand Dave telling CC to vote for Lucy, since her name would be the only other one out there, but why wouldn't Ken also vote for Lucy? 

There have been a lot of theories, and they all seem to be plausible, but I might as will throw mine into the mix - I think Ken voted for Jessica because he thought his name was on the chopping block since he had defied Lucy's commands.  He probably thought that, this far into the game, they would split the vote, so he wanted to make sure Jessica got votes.  

[peachmangosteen]

I loved this episode. This season is really working for me so far. I hope it continues to entertain me.

I feel like this ep proved that the real reason Ken was pissed at Paul and Lucy is because he believes he should be the one doing the bossing around. My goodness he is actually the opposite of humble and super self-absorbed. I find it absolutely hilarious though so I still enjoy him.

We didn't see too much of them in this ep, but I really love the Millennial tribe. UO I know but I just find them fun and interesting. Michaela is amazing. And Figgy cheering her on and losing her mind after Michaela took her top off was so awesome. I, like @KimberStormer, am really hoping those two can form a real alliance.

I'm not sure whether Dave's move was good or bad, which actually makes me like it even more. I'm just loving a lot of the gameplay this season. It's really interesting and entertaining.

Edited October 13, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[violet and green]

16 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

And a shell painted with their tribe insignia is hardly going to blend in.  I would guess it wasn't placed out there until someone found the clue but Ken found his painted 'shell' without a clue so they must've been there all along.  

I saw them walk past it in a previous episode. Can't remember who. So it was lying around there...

[Jobiska]

7 minutes ago, violet and green said:

I saw them walk past it in a previous episode. Can't remember who. So it was lying around there...

It was Adam then too, voice-overing (voicing-over?) about hoping to find the idol in that episode as well.

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

He's also way too excited to point out whenever someone's top falls off. If he had more maturity than a 14 year old he'd immediately call a time-out and let the poor woman retrieve her top. Letting the competition continue while drawing everyone's attention to the fact strikes me as willfully gratuitous; but then, I firmly believe these kinds of challenges are purposely designed to be that very thing.

I don't know.  I thought it was cool that Michaela barely had any screentime sans top because some producer or errand person had obviously snatched it right quick and a few minutes later the camera cut to her cheering on the beach with it on again.  It was like the show was very dignified that way.  Michaela didn't seem at all ashamed of being topless.  I thought she purposely took it off (LOL) but then in her commentary she said it was ripped off.  Whoops.  

[peachmangosteen]

14 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I thought she purposely took it off (LOL) but then in her commentary she said it was ripped off.  Whoops.  

From what they showed it definitely looked like she just removed it, so I didn't really get her 'it got ripped off' comment in a confessional.

Edited October 13, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[Sugar]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

From what they showed it definitely looked like she just removed it, so I didn't really get her 'it got ripped off' comment in a confessional.

Probably because her opponent was holding on to it, or she got tangled in it or something. It looked like she was annoyed by it - like it was holding her back in some way, and that's why she undid the string.

I'm not a Taylor fan, so I was giggling like an asshole when the big guys from Gen X made him look like a ragdoll. I want to like Chris, but I'm not a fan of the bitterness. Brett seems more lighthearted and easy-going, so he's not on my shit list yet. I think Ken is interesting, Jessica is clueless, and David is trying too hard. I like CeCe for keeping her cool and keeping her head down when it was clearly on the chopping block. Let everyone else implode, and keep being "meh" - I'm ok with that strategy.

I find Michaela to be way more beautiful than Figgy, so I don't know why she's the go-to "hottie" on that tribe.

Also, I feel really bad for hating Adam at first. I think he's just young and excited, and clearly this means a lot to him. I can forgive him for his exuberance in the first couple of episodes, and I was really moved when he spoke about his mother. Don't know about him as a player, but as a person, I'm rooting for him.

Also, re: Ken butting heads with people in power: I don't think he wants to lead, I think he's just a free-spirited guy who doesn't want to be led.  I get the feeling that he'd like everyone to do their own thing and not have ANYONE call the shots, hence his distaste for Paul and Lucy.

[candall]

I decided to enjoy that very satisfying TC again and . . . I think I was way off base earlier.  Pffft.  You guys are right, she still thought Ken had been working some private agenda--and she didn't even start to go bug-eyed--until after voting, when David played his idol and her name came pouring out of the basked like a slot machine payout.

[Guest]

So even while Lucy was schooling Ken on whether her telling him to vote for Jess was blunt or bossy, Jess still thought Ken was the liar?  Maybe she thought Lucy bluntly told Ken to vote for someone else and he embellished the story, I guess.

[azshadowwalker]

4 hours ago, candall said:

I decided to enjoy that very satisfying TC again and . . . I think I was way off base earlier.  Pffft.  You guys are right, she still thought Ken had been working some private agenda--and she didn't even start to go bug-eyed--until after voting, when David played his idol and her name came pouring out of the basked like a slot machine payout.

Why wouldn't she? As mentioned above, she had Ken's word only. People who are desperate lie. Not one reason to believe him prior to that. The discussions  between Ken and Lucy were not carried out in front of Jessica. The woman was operating on her belief in her alliance, and there's nothing stupid about that at this point in the game. 

I am not understanding the idea that David didn't gain anything by playing his idol. He went from a 5 vs 3 situation against him to a likely 4 vs 3 in his favor. He essentially eliminated two people who were against him by flipping Jessica and sending Lucy home. And I do think he flipped her. I don't think the guys will ever get over Paul's ouster, and she has been shown who has her back. I think David read her right. He also has the chance to find the HII again, since production won't let that shit die. 

[candall]

8 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

So even while Lucy was schooling Ken on whether her telling him to vote for Jess was blunt or bossy, Jess still thought Ken was the liar?  Maybe she thought Lucy bluntly told Ken to vote for someone else and he embellished the story, I guess.

This was the impression I had, too.  (And the reason I wasted an hour writing an essay post about Jessica's slowly dawning comprehension--ha, must get myself a life.)  But when I watched it again, the Ken-Lucy confrontation used general language like "As an adult, I don't like being told what I can do or where I can go " and "That's just my way of talking.  MEN tell me they appreciate that."  Neither of them ever specifically zeroed in on Lucy's masterplan.

The camera kept zooming in on Jess, who was all doo-di-doooo, which was funny.  She had the same quizzical expression as everyone else when David stood up to play the idol and didn't go bushbaby eyes until it turned out he was saving her.

[JudyObscure]

14 hours ago, Special K said:

She's a dietician.  Can you imagine a better field to be bossy?  Most dieticians work in hospitals, nursing homes, etc., though, so less opportunity to bully people directly into eating your way.

She also has the same muscular body type I had to put up with in rehab from the physical therapist bullies. Between dieticians asking me if I was "eating right," whatever that means this week, and the zero body fat women in rehab yelling at me for not being able to hop up ten inch steps on one foot with my broken leg and cast stuck out the side, I really began to fear Lucy's  "type."   Her dismissal of Ken because he had emotions, "like a girl," had me thinking lots of flip-side retorts for her.

[FlyingEgret]

18 hours ago, Special K said:

Agree about the brute strength challenges.  Except in this one, how easy to get your head held down under the water!  Even if they were instructed not to do that, between the scrums and the crashing surf -- I was having drowning anxiety!

(I did put aside my fears momentarily to laugh at Chris holding one of the Millennial boys absolutely in place while he tried to swim away.)

I also thought they were just going to "accidentally" hold people underwater, but drowning must be strictly forbidden

However I think I heard in one of the guys rounds, when there was a 2-on-1 (I have no idea who) - one of the pair told his teammate to bend back the opponents fingers; so I guess inflicting intentional injury is not forbidden - ouch!

[candall]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

She also has the same muscular body type I had to put up with in rehab from the physical therapist bullies. Between dieticians asking me if I was "eating right," whatever that means this week, and the zero body fat women in rehab yelling at me for not being able to hop up ten inch steps on one foot with my broken leg and cast stuck out the side, I really began to fear Lucy's  "type."   Her dismissal of Ken because he had emotions, "like a girl," had me thinking lots of flip-side retorts for her.

Whuss.  : )

Lucy's very sinew-y.  Not that I mean to sinew-shame, but if she were my dietician, I'd keep some crumbs in my pocket, just in case.

[Hanahope]

I agree with the PTV, why the heck does David care that much about Jessica?  Nothing was shown that suggested he couldn't really work with most of the rest of the tribe once she was gone, nor the two being particularly close, especially since she didn't believe Ken.  So why waste your idol on Jess?  She doesn't do well at strategy (she may be a lawyer, but she's an ADA, she only has to deal in cases with facts and must disclose everything to the defense,so there's not a whole lot of real legal strategy involved)

 

That was definitely one of the hardest word/phrase puzzles they've had in a long time.

[Wandering Snark]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

That was definitely one of the hardest word/phrase puzzles they've had in a long time.

I appreciated that it wasn't one of their 'catch phrases' and instead had to be actually figured out not just pulled from memory. I also kind of liked that Probst was forced to stand there for so long while the teams tried to figure it out and 'fill' the whole time. I'd love to see him lose his voice. Heh.

[ghoulina]

19 hours ago, Sugar said:

Probably because her opponent was holding on to it, or she got tangled in it or something. It looked like she was annoyed by it - like it was holding her back in some way, and that's why she undid the string.

Yes, it seemed to be like it got partially removed (straps pulled down) in all the chaos, so she took it ALL the way off. 

 

19 hours ago, Sugar said:

Also, re: Ken butting heads with people in power: I don't think he wants to lead, I think he's just a free-spirited guy who doesn't want to be led.  I get the feeling that he'd like everyone to do their own thing and not have ANYONE call the shots, hence his distaste for Paul and Lucy.

I get the exact same impression. He does NOT strike me as the type of guy who wants to boss everyone around. I think he probably views them as all having things to contribute, and should be on a more even playing field, instead of having one person trying to direct them all. 

[Knuckles]

On 10/13/2016 at 0:31 AM, MattDuffysCat said:

Ken is just super yummy, can't deny it. I'd probably go for manbun Joe first, but I'll take him too. :P

Not if I get there first. Joe is my major TV crush, I am still waiting for his return. I will reluctantly sacrifice Ken if you keep your hands off Joe.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Knuckles said:

I am still waiting for his return.

If you want to watch Joe run around the world doing yoga with girlfriend Kelly Wiglesworth and her 3y/o son, they have some web show coming out.  

[pamplemousse]

6 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Yes, it seemed to be like it got partially removedI get the exact same impression. He does NOT strike me as the type of guy who wants to boss everyone around. I think he probably views them as all having things to contribute, and should be on a more even playing field, instead of having one person trying to direct them all. 

That's my impression of him too. He may have an "old man" soul with his professed love for language and vinyl (or he's just a hipster at heart), but he's really a millenial through-and-through. He got stuck on the wrong tribe.

Hopefully, Ken won't be mad at David for not letting him in on the idol play beforehand. I think David did it to long-term help himself by short-term shielding Ken rather than to gain favor with Jessica (although he probably thought that was a good bonus). I think David thought that if Lucy's plan was successful and Jessica left, then Lucy would go after Ken -- David's closest ally -- next.

Edited October 15, 2016 by pamplemousse

[Hera]

I still don't think David or Ken is going to win, but I do appreciate them as players because the eventual winner is going to have to manouver around both of them (assuming they make the merge), and that will be fun to watch.

While watching the reward challenge, Zeus remarked that the fit young guys always seem surprised that they can't out-wrestle the older, fatter guys—it's like they think the older guys are all fat with absolutely no muscle. Plus, they played with bad strategy against Ken and Bret. They both went for Bret, but really, Bret was probably always going to be playing defence while Ken went and got the ring. What they should have done was both gone for Ken, forcing Bret to be the one to retrieve the ring and tire himself out in the attempt. Mind you, the Millennials were probably always going to lose that challenge because they really don't have anyone who can fight past Chris or Bret.

On 12/10/2016 at 9:00 PM, Lingo said:

Count me in as thinking that was probably a bad move on Dave's part. Or at least, he's not playing the odds. Because these days they do a tribe swap more often than not, so that tribe majority that Dave sacrificed his idol for will probably be gone within days. But even if (if, if, if) there's not a swap, look at this "majority" he has. He has Jessica, who pissed off Ken and voted for CeCe, and who wasn't much an ally to Dave to begin with. He has Ken, who voted for Jessica and seems a little impatient and unsubtle in his game play. And Ken clearly didn't know he was going to play the idol (it was probably a snap decision) and clearly didn't think it was a good move, so there's going to be some friction between them. He has CeCe, who won't be happy Jessica voted for her and hardly seems in the loop. I'm saying, this could be a foursome that would be hard to keep together.

This was my thinking as well and I'm skeptical that he can keep convince everyone to work together. On the other hand, if he's successful, then he gets the Kim Spradlin power position of being part of everyone's plans to get to the end, because they all feel closer to him than any of them do to each other. Plus, if there is a swap coming, then he's added Jessica to the list of people who might look out for him if they wind up on a tribe together. Also, @Nashville made a very good case for why he might have felt that getting rid of Lucy was an urgent matter.

As a viewer, I appreciate that David's using the idol in alliance-building—first by telling Ken about it and now saving Jessica with it (though in doing so, he may have cancelled out the good will he had with Ken). I think that's a potential use for an idol that has been underrated in recent seasons and it's more interesting to watch than sticking it in his bag until he needs it for himself.

On 13/10/2016 at 9:20 AM, Jersey Guy 87 said:

Lucy really screwed up with her whole "we need to get Jessica out, she's trying to control the tribe.  Now, let me tell you exactly what to do and you better not step even slightly out of line" approach.  And I'm not convinced that Jessica was trying to control things as much as get rid of Paul before he could tighten the bro alliance - it was in Lucy's best interest to get rid of Paul as well.

Yeah, Lucy's sales pitch was all kinds of terrible. "Jessica can't be trusted because she got us all to turn on Paul in exactly the way that I'm trying to get you to turn on her."  I'm sure it occurred to everyone on that tribe that Lucy's arguments could just as easily apply to her as they did to Jessica. I imagine Chris and Bret went along with it because they were mad about Paul's ouster and Sunday went for it because she thought that's where the numbers were...which technically they were; she just didn't count on the idol being played for Jessica (which, to be fair, I don't think many people would have ever predicted).

I was surprised that Jessica didn't see the writing on the wall until the votes were read. Then again, Chris and Bret seemed genuinely shocked at the suggestion that they were planning on going forward with only men at some point, so it might be that Jessica's concern about that wasn't entirely justified. I think we're being shown that she's not especially adept at reading people, even if she can persuade them to vote a certain way.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Hera
It was late when I wrote this and I made a lot of typos

[green]

12 hours ago, FlyingEgret said:

I also thought they were just going to "accidentally" hold people underwater, but drowning must be strictly forbidden

However I think I heard in one of the guys rounds, when there was a 2-on-1 (I have no idea who) - one of the pair told his teammate to bend back the opponents fingers; so I guess inflicting intentional injury is not forbidden - ouch!

Nay, that was just when one guy from Gen-X was holding two of the Millennials and one was giving the other advice on how to break the hold the guy had on them.  If he has them both in a death grip with his hands they have to peel away his fingers from their flesh.

I'd rather have challenges like this any day over the endless puzzles.  Puzzles and tropical islands go together as a theme like ketchup on chocolate.  (Separate, just fine.  Together, not so much).  As a result I have hated every single puzzle on Survivor ever. 

They went with the catch theme of the show from the very beginning like being Robinson Crusoe meets Lord of the Flies and as I recall Ralph and Jack didn't settle their differences with a puzzle  Though if they did I guess Piggy and Simon might still be alive, heh. 

But they could still be alive if it was say a coconut chopping contest instead.  Anything but stuffy parlor room board game-like stuff on a beautiful tropical island.  Save the puzzles for some indoor reality show.  I want to see immunities won with making fire, rowing dugout canoes, following clues to fake pirate gold, etc.  Or even the story telling memory ones based on the local island's lore.  Anything than those horrible puzzles.

[Guest]

I like the puzzles because it gives the thinkers a chance against the jocks.  But they do make the puzzles mostly dull ones to watch.  So many of them are spatial/image puzzles and I think those are practically just luck.  

I do miss the lore challenges, and the "who said what" ones.  

The challenges I hated were when it was all grade school style games like corn hole and Connect Four and coconut bowling.  Remember there were a few seasons in the middle there when it seemed like they had some inflated fear of injuries and lawsuits or something?  I'm thinking it was after Penner's medevac from his challenge-related injury possibly, but I watch a lot of these out of order.  I hope Penner sued their pants off.  Maybe that's why they all get antibiotic treatments as needed now.  

[simplyme]

2 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I like the puzzles because it gives the thinkers a chance against the jocks.  But they do make the puzzles mostly dull ones to watch.  So many of them are spatial/image puzzles and I think those are practically just luck. 

I really like the puzzles, too. Not everything should be physical challenges, even if some folks find puzzles boring to watch. Sorry, people bored by puzzles!

I will respectfully disagree with you about the spatial/image puzzles being practically just luck. I suppose they can be, but there are people who are very good at spatial relations or recognizing image pieces and how they fit together, and those are different skills not necessarily tied to word puzzle skills. My mother is great at word puzzles and pretty good at spatial and image. My father is the reverse. The woman next door couldn't do a word puzzle to save her life, but give her anything to do with spatial relations and I have never seen her equal. (If she packs something, every iota of space is used. Take notes when you unpack or things will not fit back in.)

[ratgirlagogo]

On 10/13/2016 at 4:29 PM, Special K said:

She's a dietician.  Can you imagine a better field to be bossy?

Yikes.  They're the original Enemies of Pleasure.

[jumper sage]

On 10/14/2016 at 2:01 AM, azshadowwalker said:

Why wouldn't she? As mentioned above, she had Ken's word only. People who are desperate lie. Not one reason to believe him prior to that. The discussions  between Ken and Lucy were not carried out in front of Jessica. The woman was operating on her belief in her alliance, and there's nothing stupid about that at this point in the game. 

This is why no one tells the person who is going out.  Finally someone told her with a very calm yet steady voice.  She runs and asks Lucy?  Why wouldn't she ask anyone but Lucy?  Jessica is just too stupid and should have gone home BUT I did enjoy Lucy going home.  I expect her family might just step up and smack her down.

[ghoulina]

5 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I like the puzzles because it gives the thinkers a chance against the jocks.  But they do make the puzzles mostly dull ones to watch.  So many of them are spatial/image puzzles and I think those are practically just luck.  

I do miss the lore challenges, and the "who said what" ones.  

Yes, while the puzzles can bore at times, I do think it makes things more balanced. I totally miss the lore challenges! There are definitely ways to include more intelligent games without it being a straight up puzzle. 

[azshadowwalker]

17 hours ago, green said:

 

I'd rather have challenges like this any day over the endless puzzles.  Puzzles and tropical islands go together as a theme like ketchup on chocolate.  (Separate, just fine.  Together, not so much).  As a result I have hated every single puzzle on Survivor ever. 

They went with the catch theme of the show from the very beginning like being Robinson Crusoe meets Lord of the Flies and as I recall Ralph and Jack didn't settle their differences with a puzzle  Though if they did I guess Piggy and Simon might still be alive, heh. 

But they could still be alive if it was say a coconut chopping contest instead.  Anything but stuffy parlor room board game-like stuff on a beautiful tropical island.  Save the puzzles for some indoor reality show.  I want to see immunities won with making fire, rowing dugout canoes, following clues to fake pirate gold, etc.  Or even the story telling memory ones based on the local island's lore.  Anything than those horrible puzzles.

Could not agree more. I actually don't mind puzzles on occasion, but the show relies on them too much. I miss the days of piling weight on people, wrestling and chasing. Not everything should be done to help the unathletic contestants with hang-ups about high school jocks. I watch sports for physical competition. I watch Survivor for the same reasons. The social and strategic parts of the game allow for the unathletic or physically weak player to use different skills, and women like Cirie and Sandra have proven how important that is. No reason for the entire game to be rigged for them. This game should have physical components to it, and the challenges are where they should be. 

[Blissfool]

On 10/13/2016 at 2:23 PM, ghoulina said:

 

Exactly. There was nothing but truth there. On a shallow note, I'd love Ken to "yeah" me and stare into my eyes like that. 

(Sigh) Yeees....then I would probably make him my Survivor-boyfriend and follow him around like a puppy dog constantly reminding him of that time he tried to save me. Unfortunately, he does seem rather humor-less and so I'd tire of him quickly.

On 10/14/2016 at 5:12 PM, Winston9-DT3 said:

If you want to watch Joe run around the world doing yoga with girlfriend Kelly Wiglesworth and her 3y/o son, they have some web show coming out.  

What?! I must not be a "huge superfan" if I didn't know this.

[Wandering Snark]

8 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I totally miss the lore challenges! There are definitely ways to include more intelligent games without it being a straight up puzzle. 

I loved the one where they go to stations to answer questions by chosing one flap to open or another for example... and will never forget the comedy gold that was Rudy reading every question and saying "I dunno" and guessing.

[ghoulina]

Ahhh, Rudy. A curmudgeon after my own heart.

[LadyChatts]

21 hours ago, Blissfool said:

(Sigh) Yeees....then I would probably make him my Survivor-boyfriend and follow him around like a puppy dog constantly reminding him of that time he tried to save me. Unfortunately, he does seem rather humor-less and so I'd tire of him quickly.

What?! I must not be a "huge superfan" if I didn't know this.

Supposedly the show is called "Mana", and it appears as though they may be trying to make it more than just a web show (or maybe make it more accessible online with better streaming options).  What exactly it's about, I still don't know.  Kelly did a show called Celebrity Adventures after her first brush with Survivor fame, so it sounds like a cross between that and Anthony Bourdain.  All I know is they talk a lot about yoga and living for the day and keeping healthy, and are going off the beaten path for stuff to film.  I posted a trailer of it in the media thread (or it might have been the People article with the trailer attached).  Anyway, Kelly's little boy is all sorts of adorable.

Since I don't have Joe and his hair to gawk at all season, Ken will do.  Actually, he's much different and a lot cooler than I expected him to be.  I liked his retort about not liking being called Ken Doll.  Hopefully he makes at least the jury, if he doesn't make it to the end.

Edited October 16, 2016 by LadyChatts

[303420]

If David goes with the flow and lets Jessica be voted off, he not only is at the bottom of his tribe, but the remaining alliance members are a tight five. By saving Jessica, he creates a 4-1 that is probably irreparable. So it reduces the size of the largest alliance and gives him some predictability about who is not likely to work together going forward.

It might also make Jessica a higher priority target for the remaining 4-person alliance than David, so he simultaneously creates an ally and a shield.

Both of those things can be beneficial in a swap.

And it's great to watch. On balance, a win, I'd say.

Edited October 16, 2016 by 303420

[Catstorm]

David is reminding me a lot of Todd from China, he got with the strong guy ken=James he has his goat cici=Courtney and now he may have his tactical ally in Jess=Amanda.

His staying under the radar most of the time but can make a big move when its on and influences the game.  

[hincandenza]

On 10/12/2016 at 7:02 PM, me5671 said:

I think it was a brilliant move to play the idol to save Jessica.  Dave has been a target on his tribe since Day 1.  He, Ken, and CC have been on the outs in their tribe all along.  If not for Paul's big mouth, one of them would have been voted out last week.  If they voted out Jessica tonight, they would have been right back on the bottom of the tribe.  By saving Jessica, he has created a new ally and forged a majority alliance in their tribe.  I think most players who find an immunity idol make a mistake by holding onto it for too long.  The idol can only buy you three more days.  If all your allies or potential allies get voted out in the meantime, you're just going to end up voted out next time.  By playing it the way Dave did, you create allies and go from being on the outs to actually having long-term power.  Also, you can't assume that the tribal swap is coming.  Historically, it comes at different times from season to season.  There have been several seasons where there was no swap at all.  It was a very savvy play IMO.

I wouldn't quite say it was brilliant, but I agree it was a strong and good move.  As you say, an idol by itself can only get you 3 more days, but we've seen in the past that some players go home with an idol in their pocket (or two!), while others play it as Dave is hoping he did and create a coalition that lasts for weeks.  If the tribes don't split he can coast to the merge no matter what (as he's now the top dog of a 4 vs. 3 in the remaining Gen-Xers).  And if an expected split does happen, outside of terrible luck he'll likely have 2 of those people on his new tribe, making them a key swing voting block in the chaos.  So playing it now means he's dramatically increased the chances he'll coast to the merge, and if you asked any non-jury member if they'd have played a HII to make the merge, they'd have said yes in a heartbeat.

 

On 10/12/2016 at 7:33 PM, green said:

Ah but it is not an endless jungle.  It is a rather smallish area taped off as one tribe's territory.  They can't go beyond the tribal borders the producers keep them caged in.  Given the days of hunting everyone has no doubt been doing and of which we never see, it is actually amazing no one on that tribe hadn't found the idol before that.  Especially since they could have stumbled upon the idol and/or the clue given there were two objects instead of one they could have stumbled upon.

I just realized that Dave may have accidentally (and I mean totally accidentally) gained something else from saving Jessica tonight.  She has the secret super squirrel advantage.  I would think that if she gets voted out before him she may leave it behind for Dave as a thank you now.

I did not know that!  I figured there was a boundary of some kind- that they couldn't just keep going and walk right onto someone's property or the hotel and resort just over the hill where Probst stays at- but I'm surprised to hear it is fairly small.  No wonder people got so good at finding the HIIs so quickly, every season.  Oh, and good catch on the unexpected double bonus for Dave.

 

On 10/12/2016 at 7:38 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Jeff looks like he's in an ad for feminine hygiene products.  Or possibly one for boner pills...

 

On 10/12/2016 at 8:05 PM, Jobiska said:

I joked that maybe medical had told her to keep her eyeballs aired out for a stretch of time every day so that the infection doesn't come back.

Imagine that stare if her eyes were still red though!

I laughed, then I felt bad, then I realized I now have my Hallowe'en costume figured out!

 

On 10/12/2016 at 8:19 PM, Negritude said:

This can never be said enough. You're a Gen X'er, whose side are you on anyway Jeff!

Bwahahaha...sepia tone lol. Next there won't be dialogue, just wild gesticulation accompanied by piano music, then a title card. Shoutout to the poster who explained the whole night camera in the daytime effect.

That mental image was amazing.

 

On 10/12/2016 at 9:28 PM, pfk505 said:

Michaela is one of the best characters this show has cast in years. There is something about her that combines brash confidence with competency, skill, and power. Love her, she's fantastic and I hope she goes far. She's quite literally the only millennial worth talking about.

Over on the Gen-X tribe Dave continues his redemption after what was possibly the worst debut episode character slaying by the editors I've ever seen.

Michaela is an impressive competitor, but I kind of like Zeke as well.  He's a bit much, but he seems generally decent and not imbecilic or immature.  Also, Michaela really got on my nerves with her passive-aggressive tantrums a couple of episodes ago- not unlike Hannah with the post-vote nagging of Zeke, good lord- but she's usually pretty good in her confessionals so I may warm back up to her soon.  Beyond them, it does feel like an indistinguishable slew of failed mactors.  

And yeah, Dave was almost like a character from a sketch comedy show in his debut episode, so good on him for pushing to be more useful at camp, in the challenges, and in the game.  I still say nothing can top BBB's J'Tia for the worst ever overall performance in Survivor, but after episode 1 of this season I was worried Dave was going to steal that crown...

 

On 10/12/2016 at 11:00 PM, Winston9-DT3 said:

What is the show supposed to do differently when players are voted off for reasons having nothing to do with their race?  Step in and declare Lucy immune until X blacks and caucasions were voted off?  It's bad enough there are casting quotas.  Don't make it so we need a rainbow coalition at final tribal or something.

Heh.  Yeah, I don't get it either; why do people spend their time counting out quotas for a competitive reality TV show?  Oddly, that might be the biggest difference I see in my daily life between the Gen-X and Millenials, the desire to play a sort of middle school Hall Monitor to popular culture and (mass or social) media.

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, hincandenza said:

Michaela is an impressive competitor, but I kind of like Zeke as well.  He's a bit much, but he seems generally decent and not imbecilic or immature.  Also, Michaela really got on my nerves with her passive-aggressive tantrums a couple of episodes ago- not unlike Hannah with the post-vote nagging of Zeke, good lord- but she's usually pretty good in her confessionals so I may warm back up to her soon.  

Right there with you on Michaela. She's the female Ozzy in competitions, but that initial, over the top hostility toward  Figgy,  (who I don't even like) was very weird to me.  It all works together to make her this season's most fascinating survivor to me.  More Michaela. 

8 hours ago, hincandenza said:

 I still say nothing can top BBB's J'Tia for the worst ever overall performance in Survivor,

J'Tia was pure hilarious entertainment for me., I loved everything she did.  I was thinking of her and Courtney when everyone was flying through those obstacles last week.  Where are the women who pick their way through that sort of challenge like they're afraid they'll skin their knees?  That's how I "do sports" and I like to see myself out there!

[jumper sage]

16 hours ago, 303420 said:

If David goes with the flow and lets Jessica be voted off, he not only is at the bottom of his tribe, but the remaining alliance members are a tight five. By saving Jessica, he creates a 4-1 that is probably irreparable. So it reduces the size of the largest alliance and gives him some predictability about who is not likely to work together going forward.

It might also make Jessica a higher priority target for the remaining 4-person alliance than David, so he simultaneously creates an ally and a shield.

Both of those things can be beneficial in a swap.

And it's great to watch. On balance, a win, I'd say.

Interesting!  Added with maybe the inheritance of the secret squirrel thing - super interesting.

Good season!

[ljenkins782]

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There was something awfully hinky about the way the votes were read. How did the producers and/or Probst know that Dave was going to play the idol for Jessica? How did it just so happen that the first five votes pulled out of the urn were all Jessica votes? Either they knew ahead of time Dave was going to use the idol, or else they stopped filming as soon as he used the idol and re-arranged the votes. That sure as hell wasn't coincidence.

There's no need to stop filming, that's what the editing room is there for. TCs are hours long and we see about 3-4 mins of each, taking back the urn and rearranging the vote order would just be one of those many minutes that hits the cutting room floor, I don't think there's anything conspiratorial about it. 

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He's also way too excited to point out whenever someone's top falls off. If he had more maturity than a 14 year old he'd immediately call a time-out and let the poor woman retrieve her top. Letting the competition continue while drawing everyone's attention to the fact strikes me as willfully gratuitous; but then, I firmly believe these kinds of challenges are purposely designed to be that very thing.

In this case, it looked like Michaela ripped her own top off, which I'm still a little confused about. Was it getting in her way somehow or was someone pulling on it? 

But overall, I also hate this type of challenge, particularly for the women. It seems like an automatic hindrance that the women are always having to yank on buffs/bikini tops during challenges if they're not interested in flashing the world. 

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I already touched on this but Ken kind of looks like a Hollywood star.  He could be like a Guy Pearce type of actor.  It reminds me of LJ of the Beauty tribe.  There's so many people who look Beauty tribe ish.  Beauty versus Brain versus Brawn all over again.

He looks just like someone and it bugs me that I can't think of it. What was the name of the Baywatch guy from the 90s (NOT Hasselhoff, lol), David something? I think that's who he looks like. He really is stunningly attractive.

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She's a dietician.  Can you imagine a better field to be bossy?  Most dieticians work in hospitals, nursing homes, etc., though, so less opportunity to bully people directly into eating your way.

Oh dear God, can you imagine getting her as your dietician?? It's not just that she's "blunt" as she likes to call it, she has a belittling tone to her bluntness, which is especially unhelpful in a profession like dietetics IF she's dealing directly with people. 

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I was surprised that Jessica didn't see the writing on the wall until the votes were read. Then again, Chris and Bret seemed genuinely shocked at the suggestion that they were planning on going forward with only men at some point, so it might be that Jessica's concern about that wasn't entirely justified. I think we're being shown that she's not especially adept at reading people, even if she can persuade them to vote a certain way.

Honestly, that conversation Jessica had with Paul was such a sidebar that it seems entirely plausible that the idea of a "men to the end" deal was never, ever discussed with Bret/Chris, Jessica just happened to pose the question and Paul inadvertently spoke for the other men. And really, it was so early that the only thing they really had to be concerned about was keeping the 6 together, it was a throwaway comment by Paul that sank his entire game and torpedoed the alliance. 

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I loved the one where they go to stations to answer questions by chosing one flap to open or another for example... and will never forget the comedy gold that was Rudy reading every question and saying "I dunno" and guessing.

Hahaha, he had completely and utterly ignored Jeff's every word during the storytelling portion, hilarious. 

I miss the coconut chop challenges, especially when they're the "talk shit about tribemates" variety. Those always brought out interesting tribal dynamics, I can't imagine why they don't do one every season. 

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And then there's David.  Why, David?  I get that you want to dork-out and "make a move".  But . . . place and time, dude.  

You're tightest alliance is with Ken.  Ken tries to protect Jess.  (Granted, Ken is motivated, at least in part, by the fact that Lucy hurt his fee-fees by swinging her figurative dick).  But Ken wasn't wrong that Lucy was targeting Jess.  David, from what we've seen, you believed Ken.  When Jess stabbed Ken in the back by going directly to Lucy, that should've told you someone about Jess' stability and reliability as an alliance-mate.  If you play the HII, and it works (as it did), what are you left with?  Jess, who can't be trusted.  Ken, who can't trust Jess (and, by association now, probably you too).  And C.C., who's saying "how the fuck did my name get mixed up in that urn?"

Shitshow.

 

But Jess wasn't IN an alliance with Ken, she was in one with Lucy. So as far as trust goes, she put hers in the person she was aligned with in a majority group, rather than one of the low rungs in the tribe who has every reason to try to crack the big alliance. 

The reason David's move is smart, to me, is that it stands to reason that Jess's loyalty to her former alliance is automatically shattered by those votes for her and she's going to need new allies, who better than the guy who tried to save her and the guy who did save her. And bouncing Lucy means that group is down in numbers. 

I guess Ken's reaction to all this is the wildcard here, but the reality is that Ken's position has improved as much as David's, so he shouldn't be upset about it.

[blackwing]

I'm of the opinion that there were questionable moves made by many on Gen X.   Chris was stupid to get all pissed about Paul's ouster.  The strongest physical threat on his tribe is Ken.  He could have worked with the three women and voted out Ken.  At that point, he would have a purported alliance of 5 against David and Ceci.  Knowing that the women already betrayed him once, he then could have entreated Ceci and David to join with him and Brett to take out one of the three women.

While I applaud Lucy for actually playing the game and making moves, I was a bit surprised that she would be so quick to throw Jessica under the bus.  I had thought that Jessica was one of her closest allies.  She could have convinced Chris to target Ken first.  Or she could have worked with Ken's group to get out Brett or Chris.  Her dictatorial approach clearly backfired on her.

Jessica is a terrible player.  She has no game.  Yes, she got out Paul.  But beyond that, she is clueless.  When Ken told her that Lucy was targeting her, her first instinct was to believe that Ken was lying.  I get that it's possible that Ken could be lying, but she appeared to be completely flabbergasted that they were even considering voting her off.  

I tend to believe that David's move was not so good.  The whole point of Survivor is to survive to fight another day.  He, Ken and Ceci have been at the bottom from the start.  Now, the last two votes, the big alliance of 6 is cannibalising itself.  He should have just let them.  Especially knowing that numbers are dwindling, and it's very possible that there could be a merge or tribe switch the next time around.  He could have just let them vote out Jessica.  Then, the next tribal, assuming no switch or merge, his group is ostensibly 3 vs. 4.  But he or Ken could have persuaded Lucy or Sunday that a merge could happen soon, meaning that Chris and Brett are bigger physical threats for individual immunity, and that Chris should go.  Instead, he used his idol.  I suppose he is assuming that Jessica will automatically join his group because the other three voted against her, but I'm not convinced of her loyalty.  

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

He looks just like someone and it bugs me that I can't think of it. What was the name of the Baywatch guy from the 90s (NOT Hasselhoff, lol), David something? I think that's who he looks like. He really is stunningly attractive.

David Charvet?

[ljenkins782]

25 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

David Charvet?

YES! That's his name. I just looked him on IMDB, there is a bit less of a resemblance than I thought, though it is there. Ken is actually much better looking, IMO. 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001039/mediaviewer/rm1914149376

[BK1978]

On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 1:12 AM, Wandering Snark said:

I loved the one where they go to stations to answer questions by chosing one flap to open or another for example... and will never forget the comedy gold that was Rudy reading every question and saying "I dunno" and guessing.

That may very well be my favorite challenge.  I would totally do the exact thing.  I would be sitting there not listening to a word Jeff said and I would be screwed when it came to the challenge.

This is more of a general opinion post and less than an episode specific post.  This might be the first time in some time where I do not favor one tribe over the other.  There are people on both tribes that I like (Zeke, Michaela, Adam, Ken, David, and CC) and I have people I dislike on each tribe (Well mostly Figgy and her dude bros and yes I have yet to learn the two dude bros' names). 

Edited October 17, 2016 by BK1978

[ghoulina]

25 minutes ago, BK1978 said:

This is more of a general opinion post and less than an episode specific post.  This might be the first time in some time where I do not favor one tribe over the other.  There are people on both tribes that I like (Zeke, Michaela, Adam, Ken, David, and CC) and I have people I dislike on each tribe (Well mostly Figgy and her dude bros and yes I have yet to learn the two dude bros' names). 

SAME. My boys watch with me and keep asking, during challenges, which team I am rooting for. And I really do not prefer one over the other. It's weird, because I usually do by now.  I like all the above you just named, minus maybe not CC (boring) and possibly adding Adam. So I just want them to stay safe. At this point, I am kind of rooting for whoever lost the last challenge to win, to keep things balanced. 

[blackwing]

I'm actually a bit ticked that we didn't see much of Gen X's feast.  All we saw was the remnants of a few sausages over the fire.  Where was all the rest of it?  I love watching Survivor contestants go crazy over food, it reminds me of simple joys that go beyond the game.  Instead, we were treated to an extended sobfest by Adam over his mother.  I get that they needed to show the idol finding, but really, why the need for such a long sequence?

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

YES! That's his name. I just looked him on IMDB, there is a bit less of a resemblance than I thought, though it is there. Ken is actually much better looking, IMO. 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001039/mediaviewer/rm1914149376

Embarrassed to admit this, but I watched Baywatch religiously.  I think the actor you are thinking of could be David Chokachi.  Although he was more blonde on the show, I can kind of see the resemblance.  If memory serves me correctly, he was actually brought on to be the "young buck" replacement after David Charvet left the show.  He came onto the show at the same time as the sensational Gena Lee Nolin, who was the Nicole Eggert replacement.

[Ms Blue Jay]

He's so hot here.  And honestly, I do see the David Charvet thing.

[piequinn35]

^I think I posted months ago that I want him to massage me hahah, he is also a massage therapist right?

[Ms Blue Jay]

No clue but there's a bountiful modelling profile here.  http://www.maxtalent.com/models/model.cfm/Kenneth-McNickle/0/id/1305

(Don't do too much Googling of contestants, I'd advise.  I've inadvertently run into the Bachelor/Bachelorette winner spoilers every season for the past few  seasons.)

[CarolMK]

There's a deleted scene on the Survivor facebook page that shows the winners enjoying the feast.

[SVNBob]

13 hours ago, blackwing said:

While I applaud Lucy for actually playing the game and making moves, I was a bit surprised that she would be so quick to throw Jessica under the bus.

This probably relates to gameplay archetype theory, as typically discussed in this thread.  To use the parlance of that discussion, Lucy probably saw herself as a Fox-type player (the intellectual, leader type).  And by ousting Paul and in the manner in that she did it, Jessica set herself up to also be a Fox.  But you can't have two Foxes in the same alliance.  One has to go, and Lucy tried to make that happen.

Simply put, Lucy thought Jessica was playing the same type of game as her, and wanted to eliminate the competition as soon as possible.

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

No clue but there's a bountiful modelling profile here.  http://www.maxtalent.com/models/model.cfm/Kenneth-McNickle/0/id/1305

(Don't do too much Googling of contestants, I'd advise.  I've inadvertently run into the Bachelor/Bachelorette winner spoilers every season for the past few  seasons.)

He looks best with scruff.  Clean shaven he looks a bit like Carson Daly to me.