S01.E03: Kyle

[jackjill89]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

This show gets compared to Parenthood a lot but besides some of the actors and an occasional storyline I never really liked that show.  I think the show made the mistake of making the characters too unlikeable.  I like most of the characters on this show.  At least well enough to be intrigued to continue.  I agree the best part is Randall and his family but I like Kate and the only thing I have to say about Kevin is that the show hasn't done much with him yet.  Maybe changing his location will change that.  Toby is the weak link but not horribly so. 

Oh and the flashback scenes are great too.  They could have been horrible but they work and are very well done and are both very telling and very sweet.  "I would would never run off and abandon the kids without you."

I thought I was the only one who wasn't a huge Parenthood fan. This show doesn't remind me of Parenthood. It reminds me of the Herskovitz-Zwick shows on ABC years ago. 

I think Kevin is the perfect spoiled star. He can't do a thing on his own. His needs come first. I liked him firing Kate when he realized that she would always put him first. 

Quote

When Randall finds out Rebecca kept William from him his whole life, he’s gonna be pissed. He’ll get over his anger but the relationship with his Mom will never be the same. I know William was on drugs (How did that happen? William? Randall’s bio Mom? Third person?) but I’m not cool with Rebecca to deliberately keep Randall’s biological father from him. They could’ve worked it out. I’m sure Jack would’ve been on board. They could’ve arranged supervised visits, mailed photos and letters to William and he responds to a P.O. Box if Jack and Rebecca didn’t want to use their address or even an occasional phone call. William knew he couldn’t take care of baby Randall and put the child in the position to have a better life. He even hung outside the hospital to see who will care for his child. If he kept in touch with his child, maybe it would’ve inspired him to get his life together, get off drugs, and with Randall in his life, catch the cancer before it became too late.

I agree he's going to be upset, but his dad abandoned him. Rebecca is scared. She doesn't want to finally bond with this child to have this one taken away too. In the early 80s, there wasn't as much open adoption as there is today. In so many cases you gave up the baby and that was it. I think the all or nothing approach isn't shocking given the time period and the fact Rebecca just lost a baby. 

Edited October 12, 2016 by jackjill89

[kili]

Quote

 It’s sad that Kate has spent most of her life catering to him instead of doing what’s best for her. Who knows what potential relationships or even careers she could’ve had if she didn’t have to cater to Kevin. I know her job is personal assistant to Kevin but did she really want to do that or did it because Kevin needed her when he pursued his acting career?

Kate doesn't seem to have much self-confidence on her own. It may be that she had no job (or a crappy job) and Kevin said "Hey, why not be my assistant?" When he was first starting out as an actor, I doubt he could support two people on his income, so it was probably further into his career. She has a pretty nice house, so he must pay her pretty well. I wonder what she will do now for money?

This break-up will be good for both of them. They both need to grow.

In the pilot, it was he who came running to her assistance when she needed somebody to ice her ankle. 

They both will need to stand without their crutch.

Edited October 12, 2016 by kili

[Guest]

1 hour ago, mtlchick said:

I thought Randall was living in Philly. 

His bio dad was in Philly and we know it's about a 3 hour bus ride to get to Philly (where he goes to feed his cat).  I think the assumption was that Randall was in the NYC area.

17 minutes ago, TWP said:

 

And the premise of Randall's adoption is distracting for me. No adoption agency would give Randall to a couple who just had twins. Too many childless couples are seeking infants. It's not up to the fire department or the hospital to decide where he goes. I wish they'd have come up with a different premise for Randall. And his family is downright awful to him. I'm glad he's developed family of his own.

In what way?  I think from what we've seen, we've seen an imperfect family but Kate and Kevin seemed to care about him when they called him from the party, his mom stopped in for a spontaneous visit (though I can see both sides of her keeping that secret from him for years), and other than when Kevin was 8, I don't see any evidence he was mistreated.

[romantic idiot]

It was nice of them all to decide to give the third baby its own name and all, but I wish William had most often read Keats to his girlfriend. I'm sure Randall vs. Kevin and Kate gave the poor boy a few outsider-y pangs growing up. 

[camom]

Quote

I am glad there was a reason they didn't pick another K name - at first I thought if they weren't going with Kyle (understandable) at least go with another K so you don't have one child who is both another race and a different name style, but it was well done. 

I wish they had given him another K name (Keith, Kenneth...there are plenty of them).  He was going to grow up feeling like an outsider in that family no matter what, and having the name of Randall just throws another log on the fire.

[random chance]

I thought the point of the different name with a different letter was so that he didn't grow up being the dead third triplet's replacement baby. But on reflection they call themselves the Big Three so that doesn't make sense either.

[izabella]

30 minutes ago, kili said:

Kate doesn't seem to have much self-confidence on her own. It may be that she had no job (or a crappy job) and Kevin said "Hey, why not be my assistant?" When he was first starting out as an actor, I doubt he could support two people on his income, so it was probably further into his career. She has a pretty nice house, so he must pay her pretty well. I wonder what she will do now for money?

This break-up will be good for both of them. They both need to grow.

In the pilot, it was he who came running to her assistance when she needed somebody to ice her ankle. 

They both will need to stand without their crutch.

I agree - I think Kate and Kevin have been co-dependent all their lives, and use each other (or default to each other) instead of developing lasting and meaningful relationships with other people.  I'm gad they'll be giving themselves a chance to see who they are on their own, if they can manage it.

I also loved that Toby wanted to give Kate a chance to shine on her own doing something she loved doing.  For a minute there when he said she'd be performing for a group but they wouldn't care how well she sang, I thought he was taking her to a cemetery, so thought it was hilarious that they went to the senior citizen's home.  I also like that he goes there regularly to visit his Aunt - that made the whole thing very charming and we saw that he has a real caring side to him.

Love this show - it's my favorite of the new series I've seen this season so far. 

I knew Sterling K. Brown from his role as Roland on "Army Wives," but looked him up on IMDB to see what else he's done...had to laugh because he did an episode of "Castle" so he and Miguel/Esposito go wayyy back!

[Lady Calypso]

11 minutes ago, camom said:

I wish they had given him another K name (Keith, Kenneth...there are plenty of them).  He was going to grow up feeling like an outsider in that family no matter what, and having the name of Randall just throws another log on the fire.

I think the point they were trying to make (maybe I'm wrong about this) is that Rebecca and Jack were trying too hard to have three K names that it didn't feel right when it came to Randall. The K name, whether or not they had the names planned out before the birth, was going to be associated with the loss of their third son. Rebecca and Jack seemed to want the three K names but it wouldn't have fit with their new adopted baby because he wasn't their dead son. Rebecca needed to find a way to move on from the loss of their third child and to move toward accepting and bonding with their new third baby. Moving away from their plan of having all K names was that first step.

That's why William suggested that she gave him a different name, one that was his own. It probably did end up making him feel like an outsider, but in another sense, giving him an R name allowed him to possibly be closer to Rebecca. 

And hey, he could have been called Dudley, so there's that. 

[Indy]

I really want to like this show, and when I suspend disbelieve on some things...like how Rebecca and Jack were able to adopt Randall so quickly, why the newborn babies who were either born to a crack addict or from a set of multiples born at least a little prematurely all seem to be the size of giant healthy three month old babies...I really do enjoy it.  It's probably because as the mother of a son who was both adopted and born prematurely these things stick out in my brain and really bug me.  It's easier to ignore those parts when the flashbacks aren't taking place to when the babies are new, so I liked the second episode better than this one.  But I really still love Randall and Beth (they are my new favorite TV couple) and flashback Rebecca, so I'm sticking around a bit longer.  

I still strongly dislike Toby, I find him pushy and abrasive. I was really, really hoping Kate would go to New York with Kevin and we'd be done with him. I get that it's way better for Kate to spend time away from Kevin and for her to find herself and not always be the other half of Kevin, but can't she do it with some other guy? 

[topanga]

29 minutes ago, romantic idiot said:

It was nice of them all to decide to give the third baby its own name and all, but I wish William had most often read Keats to his girlfriend. I'm sure Randall vs. Kevin and Kate gave the poor boy a few outsider-y pangs growing up. 

 

13 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

And hey, he could have been called Dudley, so there's that. 

I'm so glad they called him Randall and not Dudley. Imagine how the kids would have teased him then. (There was a popular character named Dudley on the '80s sit-com 'Diffr'nt Strokes'). 

 

2 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I do love Rebecca and Jack together, and really hate whatever reason they are not together anymore, be it death, affairs, booze. And I do love folksy doctor too. I swear someone said in some thread that aged Mandy looked about 80, but she looks no more than 50 to me, if that.  

I loved Jack in the flashbacks. I'm really curious about what led him to being a drinking, dead-beat husband and dad. And what eventually happened to him. 

I'm going to fanwank that the Dr. is a family physician. That's the only specialty that would allow a doctor to deliver babies then take care of them during their infancy. Though I wouldn't want a family physician delivering my triplets. 

I continue to be distracted by the aging makeup on Mandy Moore and Esposito. It's so bad that when they talk, I can't pay attention to any of the words coming out of their mouths. 

 

11 hours ago, Court said:

Sterling K. Brown is magic.

Yeah, he is. 

13 hours ago, bybrandy said:

Still in the minority for being all in with Toby.  

I'm right there with you. I love that his feelings for Kate seem genuine. 

This show hasn't made me cry yet, but during the montage with Kate singing 'Time After Time' interspersed with the other family scenes,  I got close. Really close. 

[Lady Calypso]

5 minutes ago, Indy said:

why the newborn babies who were either born to a crack addict or from a set of multiples born at least a little prematurely all seem to be the size of giant healthy three month old babies.

I've gotten used to this happening in many TV shows. But I'm pretty sure it's easier for them to get older babies to play newborns. Some shows like Grey's Anatomy can get much younger babies, but not all of them can. I just fanwank that they're supposed to be much smaller than they are. Plus, add in having triplets on this show? They need three sets of twins in that case, I'm pretty sure. Shows try to get twins or triplets just in case one baby isn't cooperating onscreen. I found a neat article that explains it better. 

[Indy]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

I've gotten used to this happening in many TV shows. But I'm pretty sure it's easier for them to get older babies to play newborns. Some shows like Grey's Anatomy can get much younger babies, but not all of them can. I just fanwank that they're supposed to be much smaller than they are. Plus, add in having triplets on this show? They need three sets of twins in that case, I'm pretty sure. Shows try to get twins or triplets just in case one baby isn't cooperating onscreen. I found a neat article that explains it better. 

I know, but it still bugs me. They could have dropped a mention of the babies having to stay in the hospital for a bit (because they would have had to) then boom,  babies are older and not freakishly huge for their circumstances.  Or I could just realize that this is TV and TV is not reality and just enjoy the stupid show for what it is :) 

[Gardencrown]

1 hour ago, jackjill89 said:

Rebecca is scared. She doesn't want to finally bond with this child to have this one taken away too. In the early 80s, there wasn't as much open adoption as there is today. In so many cases you gave up the baby and that was it. I think the all or nothing approach isn't shocking given the time period and the fact Rebecca just lost a baby.

I think this is a very good point. Based on my own anecdotal knowledge (which is obviously perfect and complete:) open adoptions have become much more prevalent in the last fifteen years or so. It seems like the thinking used to be that it would be confusing for the child to have relationships with both adoptive and biological parents. Obviously that view has changed a ton, but I can buy that Rebecca wanted William out of the picture because she thought it would be the best thing for Randall...of course, lying to him is going to bite her in the ass.

Echo the SKB love, though I had to work through my own forgiveness because he had a (totally stupid to the plot) affair on Army Wives, which pissed me off no end. I mean, if you're going to have an affair, make it relevant to the plot! But he has so much...nuance as an actor. From loving dad, to solid husband, to scared son telling his mother something she won't like, to grieving son -- none of his acting is over-the-top scenery chewing -- it's just natural and believable. I'll watch for him and for Mandy Moore, who is, frankly, a much better actress than I knew. Still warming up to the other siblings.

I know aging an actor is difficult, but Mandy Moore's wig???? Really??? I was afraid it was going to fall off, and all of her natural hair would come tumbling out.

[saber5055]

Well, at least the babies are real and not dolls like used to be on old shows. So I can ignore they are all bigger and not all red and shrunken looking like real premie newborns. Toby bugs the heck out of me. He's TOO charming and TOO "say all the right things" and TOO "all into" Kate. And at each turn, he confides that he is doing all of it to have sex, bottom line. And he doesn't want Kate to continue her lifelong bond with her twin brother. RED FLAGS, all of them. He reminds me of so many (ex) boyfriends, all of whom said, "You don't need to (do whatever, or have whatever) any more now that I am in your life." Run, Kate, while you can.

[saber5055]

Have we seen that Randall asked Rebecca about his real parents? Rebecca couldn't see into the future, but Randall SHOULD understand whatever she did/didn't do was in his best interest, in her opinion. I guess we'll find out in future episodes. Of course, I'm a look forward, not a look back kinda person. Meanwhile, who was the poet/book? I couldn't read the name.

[llewis823]

Sterling K. Brown was also Joan's husband on Army Wives. He is truly a great actor. Just love him in this show too as well as his character & Beth's relationship.

[llewis823]

10 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

who was the poet/book? I couldn't read the name.

The poet was Dudley Randall.

[llewis823]

Nobody has mentioned the previews for next week. Did you get a load of Toby's ex-wife? Skinny, good looking from what I could tell and by Kate's reaction, she is very intimidated by that fact. 

Also, many have said Randall did not have outright animosity toward Miguel but at the end, he got kind of sarcastic in saying "Thanks for stopping by unannounced. No, I mean thanks for stopping by" and he kind of did the fingers as triggers things and pointed them at Miguel. That was blatant animosity. I wonder if Randall may have been closer to Jack because Rebecca had the harder time bonding with him and maybe Jack treated him as his favorite for that very reason. Or maybe Miguel had something to do with Jack's death (or he and Rebecca's divorce depending on what the story ends up being). 

[ShadowFacts]

3 hours ago, kili said:

I love how they told the story of William and his wife in a series of vignettes like that. 

That was beautifully done. 

I could not love Randall more.  And I like William Shakespeare pretty darn much, too.  There is some cheeze corn in this episode, but I am overlooking it because there's so much good.  With all the ugliness in the media in general, this is a real soothing balm for me.  Some of the things that rang a little false (Kevin all of a sudden getting self-aware in the closet, the family practitioner who delivers multiples having hours of free time, Rebecca finding William in 4 hours, baby Randall finally taking to the breast while not even hungry) I can forgive, just to see Rebecca and Jack work at their family/relationship, and even more, Randall and Beth.  Kate and Kevin are going to have to work a little harder to get my love, though. 

[random chance]

23 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Toby bugs the heck out of me. He's TOO charming and TOO "say all the right things" and TOO "all into" Kate. And at each turn, he confides that he is doing all of it to have sex, bottom line. And he doesn't want Kate to continue her lifelong bond with her twin brother. RED FLAGS, all of them. He reminds me of so many (ex) boyfriends, all of whom said, "You don't need to (do whatever, or have whatever) any more now that I am in your life." Run, Kate, while you can.

He bothers me too. I am not all "awwww" about his "romantic gestures." To be fair to the writers, it might be my personal bias - I've been there with the "romantic gestures" that are actually manipulations, and the strategy of "wouldn't you rather spend time with me" that's the first step in cutting people out of your life. I'm leery of him.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Does This Is Us Plan To Make Us Cry Time After Time?

Or were the true colors of these characters revealed in yet another surprise twist?

[Packerbrewerbadger]

William dropped Randall at a fire station. I was wondering how he just happened to be at the hospital when they were being discharged?  Only one hospital in town and he stood there every day?  It was probably hospital closest to fire station but still.........

[jackjill89]

36 minutes ago, random chance said:

He bothers me too. I am not all "awwww" about his "romantic gestures." To be fair to the writers, it might be my personal bias - I've been there with the "romantic gestures" that are actually manipulations, and the strategy of "wouldn't you rather spend time with me" that's the first step in cutting people out of your life. I'm leery of him.

I'm giving him a break right now. I think that he sees this woman that he finds interesting and beautiful and sees that she lives her life through her famous twin brother. I don't think he's a creeper. I think he's trying to get her to see herself through the lens he sees her through, for her to see that she deserves a life and attention outside of being Kevin's sister. 

[DearEvette]

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I love Beth and Randall. One of my favorite things about their relationship is that they can be honest but considerate. When Randall lost his temper a little bit and snapped at her, he immediately recognized what he had done and acknowledged it. That is what mature adults do. In an ideal world, we wouldn't take our frustration out on the ones we love the most, but the second best thing is owning up to it.

Yes.  I loved that scene.  She had such a look on her face and he knew he'd messed up.  LOL.  Love them as a couple.  I hope the show doesn't screw with them!

I also liked 36 year old Randall calling Rebecca "Mommy".  Ha! Also further evidence that Randall just get really weird when he is stressed.  First the plastering fake smile thing and then the odd word salad at the end and the finger motion where you could tell he completely doesn't like Miguel but tries to to cover it, after realizing he sounded maybe  a leetle too rude. 

2 hours ago, izabella said:

I also loved that Toby wanted to give Kate a chance to shine on her own doing something she loved doing.  For a minute there when he said she'd be performing for a group but they wouldn't care how well she sang, I thought he was taking her to a cemetery, so thought it was hilarious that they went to the senior citizen's home.  I also like that he goes there regularly to visit his Aunt - that made the whole thing very charming and we saw that he has a real caring side to him.

I am in the small minority of Toby likers.  So I thought this was sweet.  I know he comes off as pushy but I find it kind of nice that in image obsessed LA where Kate works in the entertainment industry and she is around her tv star brother and all the nubile chicks he surrounds himself with, that Toby tries to give Kate her own "star" treatment.  I would guess that some of her size issues must be exacerbated by all the thin, perfection that must be in face everyday moreso than any other place, any other profession. 

Speaking of, even though of the three siblings, Kevin is the one I am struggling the most to connect with, I do appreciate that he seems to 100% love and appreciate Kate.  He may be self obsessed and selfish but he doesn't pour any negative shit onto her.  Unless I missed something, Kevin has never said a judgey word about Kate's weight.  He's never made a friendly suggestion about her losing weight.  He's never tried to hook her up with a doctor etc.  He doesn't comment on her food or anything.  She's just his sister.  If he was as image conscious as he seems I'd think he would extend that to her.  But he doesn't and I like that.

55 minutes ago, llewis823 said:

Nobody has mentioned the previews for next week. Did you get a load of Toby's ex-wife? Skinny, good looking from what I could tell and by Kate's reaction, she is very intimidated by that fact.

Yeah.  I like how the show seems to be mining all sorts of interesting material and going into directions I wouldn't have thought of.  And if I am not mistaken, the black woman who speaks to Rebecca at the pool looks like Sterling K. Brown's IRL wife, Ryan Michelle Bathe.

Edited October 12, 2016 by DearEvette

[luna1122]

4 minutes ago, Packerbrewerbadger said:

William dropped Randall at a fire station. I was wondering how he just happened to be at the hospital when they were being discharged?  Only one hospital in town and he stood there every day?  It was probably hospital closest to fire station but still.........

Yeah, honestly, that was so far fetched it took me out of it, as did Rebecca tracking William down so easily. There's a lot of that with this show, and way more velveeta than I usually can put up with, but for some reason, I'm willing to just ignore all that, so far. As jackjill89 said upthread, this often reminds me very much of the 'thirtysomething' and 'once and again' Herskovitz-Zwick stuff of the 80s, and I always liked those very much. I remember a lot of people finding those shows annoying and whiny and self indulgent, and I kind of find this one that now, but still....I like it.

[camom]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

And he doesn't want Kate to continue her lifelong bond with her twin brother. RED FLAGS, all of them.

I didn't see him wanting Kate to cut ties with Kevin.  He just didn't want her to drop everything for him every single time.  Sure, being his assistant was her job, but in this case it was so much more than that.  Kate and Kevin are waaaay too connected for 36 year olds.

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, llewis823 said:

The poet was Dudley Randall.

I was hoping it was Randall Jarrell, to give William taste for poetry I like. But then it's more appropriate for him to be named for a pioneer of African American poetry (publishing and writing) than some old white dude.

[Bean421]

7 minutes ago, camom said:

 Kate and Kevin are waaaay too connected for 36 year olds.

 

Yes, this. It's  amazing to me how they seem more like people in their early twenties vs. pushing 40.

Next week looks like a doozy. I grew up in a predominantly white town in the 80s/90s so this whole racial identity/adoption plot has my total attention. My friend and I would say we were the "lone chocolate chips in the cookie" as the only AA girls in our grade.

[SimoneS]

3 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

I thought I was the only one who wasn't a huge Parenthood fan. This show doesn't remind me of Parenthood. It reminds me of the Herskovitz-Zwick shows on ABC years ago.

I totally agree. This show reminds me of Thirtysomething which was outstanding tv with a talented cast and amazing writing. I don't see anything much of Parenthood which hardly anyone watched including me. 

Edited October 12, 2016 by SimoneS

[ohjoy]

13 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I also liked 36 year old Randall calling Rebecca "Mommy".  Ha! Also further evidence that Randall just get really weird when he is stressed.  First the plastering fake smile thing and then the odd word salad at the end and the finger motion where you could tell he completely doesn't like Miguel but tries to to cover it, after realizing he sounded maybe  a leetle too rude. 

That incredibly big fake smile as Randall started implementing his revised plan to tell his mom about William was a thing of beauty. As was his "Hi white people. Just your friendly neighborhood black man," after arguing with William on the sidewalk.

I also loved the way Beth pursed her lips after the older daughter's "He's hiding something!" when Randall left. That family is awesome.

I think that Kevin is probably going to be the longest-term growth story for the show. Since his issues aren't as obvious, it's probably going to take him the longest to realize what they even are, before he can start dealing with them correctly. Firing Kate was sweet though. I would have thought he'd have just told her that she should be able to live her life without being at his beck and call (and she should), but the simultaneous realization that she's dropping her life for him while he's hiding in a closet (a closet with a minibar smh) because he can't handle his own emotions was a great step for him. Hopefully he can hold on to that.

I want to like Toby. Actually, that's not true. I just want to not dislike Toby. I haven't been able to do either. I was so close while he was watching her sing at the senior center. Then he lost me again by basically getting grumpy every time he thinks he's losing out on a chance to have sex. (Dude, you met her a week ago. She's known her brother her entire life. Even if you're right about her being too attached, give her more than a week to figure that out on her own.) Then of course her apology is no good unless it comes with the sex he's been trying to get for the last week. Just no.

[Amethyst]

51 minutes ago, jackjill89 said:

I'm giving him a break right now. I think that he sees this woman that he finds interesting and beautiful and sees that she lives her life through her famous twin brother. I don't think he's a creeper. I think he's trying to get her to see herself through the lens he sees her through, for her to see that she deserves a life and attention outside of being Kevin's sister. 

IA.  Toby is overbearing, but I don't think he means any harm.  

But a real problem is that they're showcasing Kate's life and experiences through the lens of her being with Toby.  We've seen snippets of what Kevin and Randall are like beyond their careers and family, but Kate's story is only being displayed through her newfound relationship.  FWIW, I doubt Kate's life was anything great before she met Toby, and he's trying to get her out of her shell and stop letting her weight be the controlling force in her life.  But right now, Toby is more of a savior than a partner, and they need to show how Kate functioned without him.  Would she make the attempt to do these things on her own, or would she wallow in depression?  Did she have any dreams for herself (like singing) or does she just cling to her family because they're safe?  Given how the show treats flashbacks, I'm hoping they show what Kate was like on her own, without anyone else in the way.  

Something else they need to do is have the families meet.  Saying they love each other and showing the pictures aren't enough, the "Big 3" still feel like the "Big 2, and Randall."   I want to see Randall, Kate, and Kevin actually conversing together, and Kate and Kevin hanging out with their nieces.  It looks like Kevin will meet William next week (another reason I think New York won't pan out) so that's a step.  But I hope they won't wait until the end of the season to have them having dinner, a la Parenthood (which was vastly overrated), and do more in the meantime.  

 

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

And if I am not mistaken, the black woman who speaks to Rebecca at the pool looks like Sterling K. Brown's IRL wife, Ryan Michelle Bathe.

Aww, I didn't know they were married.  Then again, I know SKB from Army Wives and nothing else.  Didn't see him in the OJ Simpson film.

 

1 hour ago, luna1122 said:

Yeah, honestly, that was so far fetched it took me out of it, as did Rebecca tracking William down so easily.

Ikr?  That whole scene was just too coincidental.  I thought they would reveal that Rebecca already knew William when she went to his place in Philly.  

[MissT]

39 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I totally agree. This show reminds me of Thirtysomething which was outstanding tv with a talented cast and amazing writing. I don't see anything much of Parenthood which hardly anyone watched including me. 

Ken Olin is an Executive Producer of the show.  If you remember, he was also a producer and starred in Thirtysomething.

[Chaos Theory]

The adoption thing you have to hand wave because the show just wouldn't work if they spent five episodes "on the adoption process".   Or had Randall come to live with the family two years after the family already bonded.  They had to come home the same day for the storyline to work.  The third triplet who wasn't. If anything It would be interesting to discover the adoption was kinda shifty.  That being said I have zero effort hand waving the family taking home the three babies together.  It's the only way the story works.

[movingtargetgal]

I can't blame Rebecca for telling William to stay away from Randall because at the time William was an active drug addict.  I don't think she was judging William, I think she did have compassion for him, however, she knew it was not in Randall's best interest to have a junkie coming in and out of his life.  William understood this and he had the courage and selflessness to do what was best for his son at the time. 

[bybrandy]

I can fanwank it that the fire station baby was a bit of a local interest story and he saw something in the ppaer/ on the news (before any official safe haven laws) but they didn't show that to me, so...   

I don't think Toby is trying to keep Kate from having a relationship with Kevin.  Just that she thinks Kate shouldn't give up everything good in her life to go deal with Kevin every time Kevin calls.   But we will see how it plays out.

[Gbb]

15 hours ago, random chance said:

I know! We were speculating last week that he wound up with Randall because they didn't want to saddle him with the dead triplet's K name. But it turns out they did! Well, it made for a good plot twist I guess.

Maybe it came up in last week's discussion or in the episode (which I have on my DVR to watch tonight) but having the triplets be KKK would have been a little ... unfortunate.

[luna1122]

7 minutes ago, Gbb said:

Maybe it came up in last week's discussion or in the episode (which I have on my DVR to watch tonight) but having the triplets be KKK would have been a little ... unfortunate.

ha! I thought the same thing, and was sure Dr. Folksy would bring that up.

[Jillybean]

Because I haven't seen it mentioned, Chrissy's voice is lovely and she was singing "I've Never Been to Me!"  I had that album on vinyl back in the day.  I rewound Kate socking Toby at least twice.

Also, it looked like Randall now has more than one volume of Dudley Randall poetry at home, including the book William gave to Rebecca.

Personally, I'm enjoying all the characters and storylines. And I like that the twist came early in the episode this time. 

Edited October 12, 2016 by Jillybean

[Clanstarling]

24 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

I can fanwank it that the fire station baby was a bit of a local interest story and he saw something in the ppaer/ on the news (before any official safe haven laws) but they didn't show that to me, so...   

My assumption is that, since he was shown watching Rebecca and Jack as they left the hospital - establishing that he was an observer - is that he hung around the fire station in a similar fashion to see that his son was okay, and followed the fireman we saw to the hospital. Maybe even to the nursery itself.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Amethyst said:

But a real problem is that they're showcasing Kate's life and experiences through the lens of her being with Toby.  We've seen snippets of what Kevin and Randall are like beyond their careers and family, but Kate's story is only being displayed through her newfound relationship.  FWIW, I doubt Kate's life was anything great before she met Toby, and he's trying to get her out of her shell and stop letting her weight be the controlling force in her life.  But right now, Toby is more of a savior than a partner, and they need to show how Kate functioned without him.  Would she make the attempt to do these things on her own, or would she wallow in depression?  Did she have any dreams for herself (like singing) or does she just cling to her family because they're safe?  Given how the show treats flashbacks, I'm hoping they show what Kate was like on her own, without anyone else in the way.  

I think the whole point of the Kate/Kevin/Toby thing has been to highlight how little of Kate's life actually has ever been about Kate, and they've set her up now to really see that about herself and explore who else she is.  I think the way Kate functioned without Toby was mostly about how she only functioned with Kevin.  She admitted she hadn't sung since her Cyndi Lauper days and pre-weight gain, and it seems clear that NO, she absolutely would not have done that unless Toby (or someone else) encouraged her to do it.  The way Kate was shown to drop Toby (and probably anything and everything else) the instant Kevin called for her, makes it seem pretty obvious that she dropped everything in her life for Kevin - she even admitted that Kevin comes first, so relationships, careers, singing was all back-seat to Kevin.

I don't think Kate flashbacks will show what she's like on her own without anyone else in her way because she never has been on her own.  She has always been part of Kate/Kevin.  I'd like to be wrong about that, but it seems they've set it up like that's her co-dependent story and the show will be about how she rediscovers (or discovers/develops) herself without Kevin.

[tennisgurl]

So far, so good! I am really liking this show, and I am glad that we had an episode without a twist at the end this time. Granted, we did have a twist, but in a different kind of way. 

Randall seems to have some issues with Miguel , and I am really interested in seeing the backstory on that. I love Jack and Rebecca, so it makes me really sad that Jack is apparently dead, and Rebecca moved on to his best friend. I thought the Rebecca story this episode, and I was surprised that she had already met William. Plot twist! I am really happy to see Mandy Moore in this, I thin she is doing a great job. 

I think Toby means well, but he comes on WAY too strong. I wonder if he has some insecurity, and all his sarcasm and big gestures are all because he has issues? I am glad that maybe Kate will have some stories that are not about her weight. Find your own path girl!

The songs choices in this show give me a lot of feelings. I wish this show could get a Pandora station. 

[kili]

Quote

William dropped Randall at a fire station. I was wondering how he just happened to be at the hospital when they were being discharged?  Only one hospital in town and he stood there every day?  It was probably hospital closest to fire station but still.........

I've watched too much Law and Order, so here is my fanwank....somebody finds Randall's Mom. She died not in a hospital, so she gets an autopsy. ME calls in the cops, if they are not already involved, because the woman had just given birth. "We have to find the baby!" Either the cops already know about Randall or they quickly find out about the baby left at the fire station. Boom. That's how everybody knows that Randall's Mom was a junkie who died shortly after childbirth. Next, the cops try to find next of kin and they start talking to the Usual Suspects. Randall either hears about it or gets fingered as a known associate.. Maybe he admits he is the dad and agrees to give up custody (that would explain how they were able to adopt him out so quickly and the private detective had a chance to find him later). Regardless, it becomes easy for him to know where the baby is.

Back in the 80s, they weren't so strict. The babies weren't lojacked at birth, strangers could wander around the maternity ward and HIPA wasn't as strictly enforced. William on one of his better days (or has a friend do it) pokes around and hears the story about the nice couple who lost a triplet and is adopting the baby from the fire hall. I'm sure it wasn't too hard to figure it out back then.

BTW I think one of the reasons that Rebecca made the deal with William is not just because she didn't want a junkie in and out of his life, it is that she could not bond with Randall knowing that she might lose him. There were lots of cases in the 80s of fathers coming back for their children and prying them out of adopted families. Rebecca could not lose a child again and she was having trouble fully committing until she knows for sure that she can keep him.

I like that Rebecca chose to name the baby after a positive aspect of his parent's relationship. That was a nice nod.

[Arcadiasw]

6 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

I agree he's going to be upset, but his dad abandoned him. Rebecca is scared. She doesn't want to finally bond with this child to have this one taken away too. In the early 80s, there wasn't as much open adoption as there is today. In so many cases you gave up the baby and that was it. I think the all or nothing approach isn't shocking given the time period and the fact Rebecca just lost a baby. 

William wasn't in a situation where he could contest the adoption and get Randall back. So far, it doesn't seem that was his intention back then. Decades later, he's still isn't. Whether he could've changed for his son, who knows. At the time he only wanted to know his son. I'm sure William wanted to raise his son but that changed when Randall's bio mother died. I think when he left baby Randall at the fire department, he did it because he realized he couldn't give baby Randall what he needed. I hope Rebecca didn't shoulder the knowledge of meeting William on her own all these years. I hope she told Jack and if she didn't that's not good keeping secrets like that in a marriage.

4 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Have we seen that Randall asked Rebecca about his real parents? Rebecca couldn't see into the future, but Randall SHOULD understand whatever she did/didn't do was in his best interest, in her opinion. I guess we'll find out in future episodes. Of course, I'm a look forward, not a look back kinda person. Meanwhile, who was the poet/book? I couldn't read the name.

From the conversation between Rebecca and Randall, it’s implied he did. Randall said he had been curious about his parents ever since he was a kid and he told Rebecca, “I know you guys would’ve found him if you could’ve.” Even though I disagree with Rebecca not allowing William some contact with Randall as a child, when Randall became an adult, Rebecca should’ve told him what she knew. What Randall decided to do with that information would be his choice and I don't think Randall would've been angry with Rebecca. His anger may come from Rebecca knowing and not telling him this when he became an adult and the years he lost getting to know his biological father. 

Edited October 12, 2016 by Arcadiasw

[PRgal]

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I've gotten used to this happening in many TV shows. But I'm pretty sure it's easier for them to get older babies to play newborns. Some shows like Grey's Anatomy can get much younger babies, but not all of them can. I just fanwank that they're supposed to be much smaller than they are. Plus, add in having triplets on this show? They need three sets of twins in that case, I'm pretty sure. Shows try to get twins or triplets just in case one baby isn't cooperating onscreen. I found a neat article that explains it better. 

 

Call the Midwife in the UK gets VERY, VERY young kids, with moms auditioning even before they are born!  Not sure if that'll work this side of the Atlantic.

[CleoCaesar]

Quote

Through most of the monologuing, I can't help but hear the rantings of Dr. Bailey from Grey's Anatomy.

Ha! I'm happy someone else hears it too. The most egregious example for me was Randall's wife's monologue about her husband to William. "He's perfect" [Lists reasons why, monologues]. It was such a ridiculous, unrealistic Shonda speech. No one talks like that in real life.

[Arcadiasw]

19 hours ago, SimoneS said:

The make-up is good, but Mandy Moore does not look old enough to the siblings' father.

 

7 hours ago, luna1122 said:

And I do love folksy doctor too. I swear someone said in some thread that aged Mandy looked about 80, but she looks no more than 50 to me, if that.  

I'm just glad the makeup department didn't overdo it and made Mandy look too old. I've seen several movies and TV shows where actors wore age makeup because the character they played was old and when the actor actually reached the age of the old character, they look nothing alike. The actor still looks much younger than the old character they played.

Also people don't look their supposed age anymore. A woman in her seventies may look to be in her 50s.

Speaking of older Rebecca, I'm looking forward to seeing her interact with adult Kate.

[kris4n6]

3 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Ikr?  That whole scene was just too coincidental.  I thought they would reveal that Rebecca already knew William when she went to his place in Philly.  

William didn't live in Philly, he lived in Pittsburgh.  The bus he met Randall's mother on was going to Swissvale, a suburb of Pittsburgh.

[meep.meep]

6 hours ago, Indy said:

I know, but it still bugs me. They could have dropped a mention of the babies having to stay in the hospital for a bit (because they would have had to) then boom,  babies are older and not freakishly huge for their circumstances.  Or I could just realize that this is TV and TV is not reality and just enjoy the stupid show for what it is :) 

To get your mind off how big the babies are - how did Jack manage to wrangle three babies in and out of a car all by himself?

There's a lot of stuff that's being not covered.  I'd love to know what Beth said to William in their convo in the last episode for example.

I'd trust Toby more if the actor hadn't played Cleary on the Knick.

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

William wasn't in a situation where he could contest the adoption and get Randall back. So far, it doesn't seem that was his intention back then. Decades later, he's still isn't. Whether he could've changed for his son, who knows. At the time he only wanted to know his son. I'm sure William wanted to raise his son but that changed when Randall's bio mother died. I think when he left baby Randall at the fire department, he did it because he realized he couldn't give baby Randall what he needed. I hope Rebecca didn't shoulder the knowledge of meeting William on her own all these years. I hope she told Jack and if she didn't that's not good keeping secrets like that in a marriage.

Yes, and the little piece of evidence that this was a tragedy that William was trying to do his best with is the beautifully knitted baby blanket little Randall was wrapped in.  It wasn't a scrappy old blanket or towel, it was for a baby.  I was just kind of touched by that. 

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, kris4n6 said:

William didn't live in Philly, he lived in Pittsburgh.  The bus he met Randall's mother on was going to Swissvale, a suburb of Pittsburgh.

At the time of the babies' birth, all of them--Jack, Rebecca, William--lived in Pittsburgh. 36 years later, William lives in Philly, Randall in New Jersey, Kate and Kevin in LA. It's not clear where Rebecca and Miguel live. They've traveled to NYC to see Hamilton but it's not clear if they drove or how far away they live, i.e. still in Pittsburgh, which is about six hours by car from the NYC suburbs.