Season 3 Discussion

[GHScorpiosRule]

12 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

I enjoyed this episode more than I thought I would...let's just say I'm definitely a Bow when it comes to confrontation.

Speaking of Bow, she is having the strangest pregnancy I've ever seen.  I know that every woman carries her pregnancy differently, but I've never seen anyone whose baby bump grows...AND SHRINKS...like Bow's!

If you read @DearEvette's post above, the episodes are out of order and this episode was to have aired before last week's.

[peeayebee]

10 hours ago, MyAimIsTrue said:

Jenifer Lewis is a comedic national treasure. 

I so agree. She delivers lines expertly, but she also is fantastic at giving looks. Honestly, I don't think I've seen her before, or at least I don't remember if I did, but she just blows me away with her comedic talent. So so funny.

I'm also very impressed with the actor who plays Jack. He's very natural, has great timing, and is funny. I prefer him to Diane, who I don't see as very natural for the most part.

I enjoyed when Johan realized the life coach stuff was a pyramid scheme.

I loved this line, "Paying someone to listen to your problems is like a hooker for your feelings."

[jhlipton]

On 1/12/2017 at 7:44 AM, charmed1 said:

The children, Jenifer, and Deon make the show for me. No disrespect to Tracee, but if anybody's deserving of awards, in my opinion, it's them.

Co-sign.

 

On 1/12/2017 at 10:06 AM, msani19 said:

Hillary is the Ben Carson of White women…ouch, that's harsh!

I didn't like that this went uncontested.  Carson may be a brilliant doctor, but he's not a brilliant politician, and no where near Hillary.

On 1/12/2017 at 11:13 AM, monakane said:

I love how Pops accepts his grandson for who he is.

Junior "has the gene".  LOL

On 1/12/2017 at 8:56 PM, Happytobehere said:

Junior was planning to discuss the I Have a Dream speech and he knew nothing about the actual speech, which is available for all on line and has been taught in schools for years customarily beginning in Junior High -- perhaps less time speaking Dothraki and more time living in the real world will help. 

I'm another who only learned the "I have a dream" portion.  And "Letter From a Birmingham Jail" is not taught at all.

This episode is a perfect example of "If not now, when?  If not like this, how?" 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

This episode was definitely supposed to air way before the election episode from last week. The production code for the election episode (Lemons) is 3x15. The production code for this week's episode (Good Dre Hunting) is 3x08.

22 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Was that Mary Kay Place? 

Yes, it was Sharon Cherski's mom!

[charmed1]

"I'll be forced to go on fishing trips with strong male role models!"

and...

"I can't write rap lyrics about having two parents!"

Ha! Jack had some good ones this episode. I love when the twins think too much. Their dialogue reminds me of Chip & Dale.

The All Lives Matter tattoo made me cackle. Along with "Ah Sweetheart? It never expires." re: Stevens' son's mandated therapy. They are trolling Dre.

I feel like I'm owed an explanation when an episode is Charlie-less.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

Dre and his giant man baby-ness worked my last nerve this episode. I need therapy now, to work out why I react to him the way I do. 

Loved Josh's line about therapists being a hooker for your feelings, and Jack and Diane being disappointed that their parents staying together means Rainbow's second husband won't be The Rock! 

[DearEvette]

52 minutes ago, Mrs OldManBalls said:

Loved Josh's line about therapists being a hooker for your feelings, and Jack and Diane being disappointed that their parents staying together means Rainbow's second husband won't be The Rock! 

Heh.  Or Bow's realization that she will have to marry Rick Fox after Dre is dead.  I love the continued shout out to Rick Fox.  Man, he needs to show up at some point.

[attica]

On 1/19/2017 at 7:58 AM, DearEvette said:

Oh man,  i loved the smallish scene of Bow crying in her car about being such a "people pleaser." Tracee is so funny.

Her crying voice is the funniest thing in the world. 'Tilapia is fake fish!!!!'

Diane is having a growth spurt, and Jack is not. I notice they're blocking those kids so that it's getting rare when they're standing next to each other. That's a problem with casting kids: you never know how or when they're gonna grow.

I remember back when I was in high school. One day in study hall, I was 'looking at' this other girl, and she took offense. (We were both feathered-haired white girls, fwiw, but still: territory is territory) She stalked up to me, all "What are you looking at?!?" Whatever I have to thank for the flash of insight I had I'll thank, because I answered "Oh, I was admiring your purse." Hard to work up a fight over that, right? Trouble diffused! (She would have kicked my ass. I was not a tough kid.)

Edited January 20, 2017 by attica

[tennisgurl]

Really, Dre needed to get some therapy ages ago. The guy really does have serious anger issues, and is in general a huge man baby half the time. Granted, this week was probably more exaggerated than other episodes for the purposes of the episode, but not THAT much! I thought this episode was hilarious, but they kind of half assed the whole "black people don't go to therapy" thing. Empire had that exact same arc age ago, and yeah its a drama and not a sitcom, but when has this stopped this show before? Other than saying that black people have suffered for 400 years (which is kind of what Dre says about everything) without therapy, what does that mean now, from the shows perspective?

I noticed Zoe was wearing the exact same Princess Leia buns as Bow in that scene where she realizes her mom thought she had it together at 17. Oh Zoe, cursed to become her mother! You could do worse.

If any member of the Johnson family needs therapy, its Diane. Well, so does Dre, but Diane needs it more! Granted, she hasn't been too bad lately, but earlier this season they were writing her like a straight up Bad Seed future serial killer. Get that kid to a child specialist before she ends up as the bad guy on a True Crimes show!

I know this episode is out of order, but Bow has been pregnant for like 15 years it seems like, and its affected, like two episodes. What is the point of this baby? Tracee isn't pregnant, the show might have had some rough spots lately, but its still pretty consistent, there is still tons of territory to mine for humor and commentary, and Jack and Diane are still young enough to be cute! There is literally no need for a Cousin Oliver baby!

[teebax]

2 hours ago, attica said:

I remember back when I was in high school. One day in study hall, I was 'looking at' this other girl, and she took offense. (We were both feathered-haired white girls, fwiw, but still: territory is territory) She stalked up to me, all "What are you looking at?!?" Whatever I have to thank for the flash of insight I had I'll thank, because I answered "Oh, I was admiring your purse." Hard to work up a fight over that, right? Trouble diffused! (She would have kicked my ass. I was not a tough kid.)

I think having a problem with being looked at transcends all races. I've seen so many fights over such a silly thing. Maybe I'm an optimist, but I assume if someone is looking at me it's because I look good.

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I know this episode is out of order, but Bow has been pregnant for like 15 years it seems like, and its affected, like two episodes. What is the point of this baby? Tracee isn't pregnant, the show might have had some rough spots lately, but its still pretty consistent, there is still tons of territory to mine for humor and commentary, and Jack and Diane are still young enough to be cute! There is literally no need for a Cousin Oliver baby!

I was wondering this, too.  When was it last season that she found out she was pregnant.  IIRC, it wasn't at the very end of the season.  I realize that TV show time is different than real time, but there needs to be some continuity or explanation if the two veer too far from each other.  It seems like Bow has been pregnant for almost a year now and, on the show, she's barely in the second trimester.

[RedHawk]

8 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Heh.  Or Bow's realization that she will have to marry Rick Fox after Dre is dead.  I love the continued shout out to Rick Fox.  Man, he needs to show up at some point.

I rolled at Bow's verbalization of the "Dre dies" situation, "Grieve, grieve, grieve. Marry Rick Fox." 

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

...

If any member of the Johnson family needs therapy, its Diane. Well, so does Dre, but Diane needs it more! Granted, she hasn't been too bad lately, but earlier this season they were writing her like a straight up Bad Seed future serial killer. Get that kid to a child specialist before she ends up as the bad guy on a True Crimes show!

I know this episode is out of order, but Bow has been pregnant for like 15 years it seems like, and its affected, like two episodes. What is the point of this baby? Tracee isn't pregnant, the show might have had some rough spots lately, but its still pretty consistent, there is still tons of territory to mine for humor and commentary, and Jack and Diane are still young enough to be cute! There is literally no need for a Cousin Oliver baby!

Remember the mention last season that Diane goes to therapy every Saturday morning?

I simply cannot fathom why they are adding a baby. Just can't see it adding one thing to the show. Hope they prove me wrong.

[Constant Viewer]

17 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I'm another who only learned the "I have a dream" portion.  And "Letter From a Birmingham Jail" is not taught at all.

As a teacher, I will be definitely including more of the "I Have a Dream" speech this year due to this episode. We do teach the "Letter from a Birmingham Jail" now, but it was not taught when I was in school.

[shura]

2 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Remember the mention last season that Diane goes to therapy every Saturday morning?

Yup. It's court-mandated, too, I believe.

"Why would I pay someone $200 an hour to solve the problems I can solve myself?" - "It's actually only $180 after co-pay..."  Writers, do you know what a co-pay is?

[sinkwriter]

Quote

Dre's speech was a tad heavy-handed, but "Strange Fruit" playing softly in the  background was a nice touch.

Dre's speech was definitely over the top to make a point -- though I agreed with him, especially in that things will probably continue to get worse and more divisive unless we can find a way to communicate and persuade those like Lucy on the other side who voted for Trump. While the speech was fine, I think without his speech that scene would have been even more powerful to me, what with the black and white images from our country's brutal history, and the very chilling "Strange Fruit" as its soundtrack. That really says it all. Man, as soon as that song cued up, I shivered. If you haven't read the lyrics to it, you need to.

As for Lucy, I didn't really buy her as someone who would vote for Trump, especially not based on how she's been established as a character to this point, but I understand they needed someone to take that viewpoint in order to show the other side of the argument and how a large percentage of white women did not want to vote for Hillary.

This was a tough episode to watch, especially because I watched it today, inauguration day. But I'd rather watch this episode 100,000 times than ever watch Donald Trump get sworn in as president. At least this episode has heart and is believable (unlike the newly sworn in Trump). The connections between characters (Bow and Zoe, Pops and Junior) were what got to me the most. And I couldn't help but cry re-watching that snippet of Dr. King. 

It may not be "fun" situation comedy, but it's still necessary to show these points of view. It's incredibly important, especially now.

[possibilities]

16 hours ago, Mrs OldManBalls said:

Josh's line about therapists being a hooker for your feelings

I read a science fiction book many years ago where this was one of the attitudes in the new society. I can't remember the title and it's driving me crazy. In the book, it was actually illegal, and considered disgusting, to pay for or sell "psychotherapy" because it was degrading for both parties. But people would sneak around and pay for talk anyway even though it was very dangerous to get caught.

[jhlipton]

Just now, Constant Viewer said:

As a teacher, I will be definitely including more of the "I Have a Dream" speech this year due to this episode. We do teach the "Letter from a Birmingham Jail" now, but it was not taught when I was in school.

A sitcom has changed your life and the life of your students.  Yay!  (And thanks for being a teacher -- you don't get thanked enough.)

[Tiger]

On 1/19/2017 at 10:23 AM, Traveller519 said:

"I guess Junior's out, too" "Junior was never in"

I didnt like this episode on the whole, but that line and the way Marsai deadpaned it had me howling.

On 1/20/2017 at 5:19 PM, OtterMommy said:

I was wondering this, too.  When was it last season that she found out she was pregnant.  IIRC, it wasn't at the very end of the season.  I realize that TV show time is different than real time, but there needs to be some continuity or explanation if the two veer too far from each other.  It seems like Bow has been pregnant for almost a year now and, on the show, she's barely in the second trimester.

Somehow the kids have had a summer break, the election, Thanksgiving, and Christmas have passed, and yet Bow is barely pregnant. If we're generous and say the kids didnt get out of school until June, its still been six going into seven months.  

Whatever, its a tv show.  Rachel Green was pregant for a full season on Friends.  So i'm not going to fault the writers on this.

[OtterMommy]

6 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Whatever, its a tv show.  Rachel Green was pregant for a full season on Friends.  So i'm not going to fault the writers on this.

I think I was more confused by her appearing and disappearing pregnancy (explained by shuffling the eps) than the fact that this pregnancy is taking a long time.  Honestly, this is FAR from the most ridiculously timed pregnancy I've seen on TV, even in just the past couple of years.

[Guest]

Yeah, I don't really mind it because she's going from four kids to five and has a houseful of potential caregivers.  If we never see that baby, it won't even seem that odd.  And the show is already a family comedy partly about parenting.  All unlike Mindy.  

I didn't even notice the changing bump.   I just watched another sitcom season with jumbled eps and that was really jarring-- Happy Endings, season 1.  

[vmcd88]

On a totally superficial note.  I love the hair on this show: Bow, Zoey and Diane.

[HoosierJen]

On 1/20/2017 at 7:27 PM, Constant Viewer said:

As a teacher, I will be definitely including more of the "I Have a Dream" speech this year due to this episode. We do teach the "Letter from a Birmingham Jail" now, but it was not taught when I was in school.

Constant Viewer, same here! I had planned to use a portion of the "I Have a Dream" speech last week with my students, but after watching this episode I decided to use the entire thing. My kids watched a video of the whole speech, then annotated it themselves, then we had a class discussion about it. The next day, they ued the text to create their own original poetry about MLK. I'm sure nobody on here cares about my lesson plans, I just wanted to say that I appreciate this show encouraging me to look at the entire speech instead of just one small portion.

On another note, I marched in Indianapolis Saturday and as I stood there in my NPR t-shirt and Planned Parenthood scarf, I realized that I have become Rainbow Johnson!

[BoogieBurns]

7 minutes ago, HoosierJen said:

I realized that I have become Rainbow Johnson!

Welcome to the club!

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, HoosierJen said:

Constant Viewer, same here! I had planned to use a portion of the "I Have a Dream" speech last week with my students, but after watching this episode I decided to use the entire thing.

On another note, I marched in Indianapolis Saturday and as I stood there in my NPR t-shirt and Planned Parenthood scarf, I realized that I have become Rainbow Johnson!

Both parts of this post are awesome!

[jhlipton]

On 1/20/2017 at 0:13 PM, attica said:

She would have kicked my ass. I was not a tough kid.

With a name like 'Attica'?  "Attica! Attica! Attica!" (and, yes, I remember the riots (18 at the time)...)

 

On 1/20/2017 at 8:47 PM, shura said:

"Why would I pay someone $200 an hour to solve the problems I can solve myself?" - "It's actually only $180 after co-pay..."  Writers, do you know what a co-pay is?

Unless they have really crappy insurance!

[OnceSane]

Quote

Dre and Bow have a gender reveal party, and Dre is thrilled because it’s his turn to name the baby. He decides on a culturally significant name that Bow and Ruby aren’t a fan of. Meanwhile, Zoey’s plan to have an anti-Valentine’s Day with her friend Shelly is thwarted when Junior asks Shelly out on a date, so Diane tries to fill in as Zoey’s BFF.

[Michel]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 1:29 PM, OtterMommy said:

I think I was more confused by her appearing and disappearing pregnancy (explained by shuffling the eps) than the fact that this pregnancy is taking a long time.  Honestly, this is FAR from the most ridiculously timed pregnancy I've seen on TV, even in just the past couple of years.

You want a ridiculously-timed pregnancy?  Try Luanne from King of the Hill, who never looked a day pregnant throughout her pregnancy and only looked nine months pregnant in the episode in which she finally gave birth to her daughter.  I know animated shows aren't the same as live action ones, but still . . . it was very badly done.

[Designbytiffanyj]

On 1/11/2017 at 10:40 PM, Nordly Beaumont said:

I thought it was well done. I have a friend who's about one Trevor Project scarf away from being Bow.

Loved the sweet moment of Jack insisting his glass was half full. Even though it was empty. And a bowl.

Thank you for the kind words about the scarf on Blackish.  I have a small business on etsy and I actually made that scarf.  This is link to the listing. https://www.etsy.com/listing/479388254/handmade-crochet-rainbow-scarf-gift?ref=shop_home_feat_4

[Negritude]

Super late to the discussion. I kind of avoided this ep because I thought it might be too heavy handed and eyeroll inducing but I just finished watching it on demand and liked it more than I was expecting to. 

I actually appreciated the explanation by Lucy as to why she voted for Trump, especially  questioning if they would have voted for Herman Cain or Ben Carson just because they're Black (capital B). 

Loved, loved, loved Pops telling Junior that the reason the more radical elements of Dr King's speeches and ideology aren't taught is to pacify us. I've been saying this forever so that got a big co-sign from me.

I get why some folks are turned off when comedies do the "very special episodes" but the show is called Black-ish so I'm not sure what you're expecting. Even the iconic Cosby show had its moments. 

[msani19]

I really didn’t think gender reveal parties were real things until I went to one recently. It was kinda cute, although the cynic in me still couldn’t help side-eyeing the whole concept. The cake was delicious, though! That made me happy. Oh plus the baby….a girl, that made me happy too. Does everything need to be an Instragramable event? 

Umm. DeVante – no. I can't even remember which one he was in Jodeci and I'm a child of the 90s. I grew up with what people considered a "weird" name. My family is Nigerian and I am first-generation American. As a little girl, all I wanted, was to be called Julie – it was the whitest name I knew off & I could blend in – sorry to any Julies out there!  

I love that the show is able to unpack so many of the deep-seated (or deep-seeded? I never know which one it is!!) issues in the Black community. Trust me when I tell you that my African parents would screw their noses up at DeVante, Shaniqua, TaNisha, DeMarius…any name they thought was a “pretend African name”.  The bias against names is real. One hilarious thing about my name is that many, many times when I’ve shown up to job interviews, they have confessed that they thought I was a Japanese woman!

As always, Charlie’s lines killed me - “If I’m on a plane and I hear I’m your Captain DeVante Jones. I’m no longer on that plane.” 

I guess Junior is getting a catch phrase: "you know I don’t” and it works for him. He never knows. Anything.

[Dee]

Longhead & Gurkel settling in for a night of watching trampoline accidents together is the sweetest thing that's happened on this show this season.

[LADreamr]

Charlie is gold. "Sometimes, I lie..." 

I wish Johan had been in this episode. He probably would have had an interesting take on the name discussion.

[Michel]

Yeah. . . . Wasn't a fan of the name DeVonté, either.  But of course, Dre digs in his heels and throws enough temper tantrums, so he wins.

I mean, it's not that I didn't even get his point.  But I really sided with Bow and Ruby on this.  The name was so . . . stereotypical.  Though when Dre said he grew up near LeDariuses, I immediately thought of Darius.  That's black enough without sounding too stereotypically black, you know?  But at least they gave him a normal middle name in Matthew, so everybody wins in the end.

It was kind of funny that Bow, Ruby, Stevens, Connor, Josh, and Charlie all agreed on how bad the name was, though.

So Bow has a "girl dream" before Zoey's birth, a "boy dream" before Junior's birth, and a "boy dream" followed by a "lucid nightmare" before Jack and Diane's births.  Sigh.  Guess they picked the "Diane is creepy/evil" thread back up, further demonstrated by her suddenly appearing near Zoey throughout the episode.

Nice to see Rachel again.  I loved her startling all of the men (especially Connor) and then writing down Stevens mimicking her.  And then, Charlie completely sinks himself in front of her.

Dre and then Bow being insensitive in front of the kids was sad, but at least titter-worthy.  It reminded me of this episode of Still Standing, when Bill and Judy twice talked about how their son and oldest child, Brian, was their only hope for the future, and noticing too late that they'd said it in front of their two daughters, Lauren and Tina, crushing them both each time.

Junior's storyline was comedy gold, though I cringed when he got his dinner with Shelly, and then ruined everything by inviting Megan over.  Like . . . wow.  How socially dumb can you get, Junior?

Aside from Bow giving in to Dre in the end, this was a good episode.

19 hours ago, Dee said:

Longhead & Gurkel settling in for a night of watching trampoline accidents together is the sweetest thing that's happened on this show this season.

Also, totally something Diane would watch.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Michel

[Tiger]

Wow, Marsai is now so much taller than Miles.

DeVonte?  Really,  show? 

I loved all of Charlie's, er King Charlamain's, lines, particularly that Diane would put an air bubble in Dre's IV.  

[AyeshaTheGreat]

Considering Dre is naming his son after the man behind Jodeci's sound, I am going to say the name is spelled "DeVante".  The funniest part of this naming to me was that DeVante Swing's real name is Donald.  And when Bow said he was the least important member, I said "Dalvin" around the same time as Dre.  And my last point on Jodeci: Bow deciding to rank DeVante as 3rd most important member when he is at least the 2nd most important.  I did want to hear her list of the 4 '90s groups better than Jodeci.  I can say Boyz II Men and EnVogue but then it gets murky.

Further to the name thing, I probably used to judge people for their names.  Then I realized that it was mostly fellow Black Americans that were being judged and decided to stop.  No one questions the meaning of the stereotypical lily white names.  Those names are actually greeted with an expectation of success. 

Of course, Dre would go all the way with naming his son but I do not think parents, especially Black parents, should go looking for "safe" names if that is not a name they really want.  We all know that "respectability politics" do not tend to work for Black people. 

While, the naming concerns were true, I don't think Dre was "wrong" or even "whiny" about it.  He recognized the challenges of such a name, decided against doubling down and gave DeVante the middle name of Matthew.

Overall, this episode was back to what I have expected from the show.  Jack trying to help Junior but realizing he wasn't ready.  Diane trying to hang with her older sister, even ending up in Zoe's room unnoticed.  The office stuff was good as well.  Episodes like this make me glad I haven't quit this show. 

[DearEvette]

3 hours ago, Michel said:

I mean, it's not that I didn't even get his point.  But I really sided with Bow and Ruby on this.  The name was so . . . stereotypical.  Though when Dre said he grew up near LeDariuses, I immediately thought of Darius.  That's black enough without sounding too stereotypically black, you know?  But at least they gave him a normal middle name in Matthew, so everybody wins in the end.

But I think that is exactly the point the show as trying to make.  There is such a deeply rooted racism in the idea that the name black people invent are considered inferior, laughable or 'stereotypical' while names that white people invented are considered acceptable and 'normal'.

In and of itself the name 'Jessica' is not inherently better than the name 'Devonte' but the latter has been loaded with such derision simply because it is a name no white person has ever used.  There is literally no other reason.

And yet even when white folks begin using unusual names  of their own - Skyler, Braxton, Kayden etc.  people may raise eyebrows but they are not actively derided to the point where the names become a detriment or yet another signifier of 'otherness' toward an entire race. 

I liked the episode because once again I think the show made a lot of salient points on both sides  - that and the photoshopped baby head at the start of the show. Ha!  But  Personally, I dislike both extremes.  I roll my eyes at the too out-there cray-cray names.  Really watch Toddlers and Tiaras sometimes for some incredibly inventive names or incomprehensible spellings of conventional names (how is it that a name pronounded "Kaylie" ends up with 15 letters in it?)  But I also sigh at the utter conformity of it all too (my youngest son was in a class had that five girls names Emma.  Out of a class that had 12 girls, five of them were named Emma).

[Empress1]

5 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

But I think that is exactly the point the show as trying to make.  There is such a deeply rooted racism in the idea that the name black people invent are considered inferior, laughable or 'stereotypical' while names that white people invented are considered acceptable and 'normal'.

In and of itself the name 'Jessica' is not inherently better than the name 'Devonte' but the latter has been loaded with such derision simply becauseit is a name no white person has ever used.  There is literally no other reason.

And yet even when white folks begin using unusual names  of their own - Skyler, Braxton, Kayden etc.  people may raise eyebrows but they are not actively derided to the point where the names become a detriment or yet another signifier of 'otherness' toward an entire race. 

I liked the episode because once again I think the show made a lot of salient points on both sides  - that and the photoshopped baby head at the start of the show. Ha!  But  Personally, I dislike both extremes.  I roll my eyes at the too out-there cray-cray names.  Really watch Toddlers and Tiaras sometimes for some incredibly inventive names or incomprehensible spellings of conventional names (how is it that a name pronounded "Kaylie" ends up with 15 letters in it?)  But I also sigh at the utter conformity of it all too (my youngest son was in a class had that five girls names Emma.  Out of a class that had 12 girls, five of them were named Emma).

I think they're pretty actively derided. I can't find it right now but there was a website devoted to bad baby names and they were largely of the "Mackxenzye" sort. Not just misspelled (and yes, I do think names can be misspelled) versions of traditional names, but also made up white people names. But you're right, those names aren't a signifier of otherness. I think with those names, there's a class assumption more than a racial one (and the same is true for Black names).

I hate the name DeVante. There, I said it. (I also hate the name Rainbow, and I'm not crazy about the name Zoe either.)

Poor Junior. Junior is a good-looking kid, it's true. When Zoe's friend was flirting with him, I wondered what had happened to his girlfriend. (And girlfriend: don't play games. Tell him what you want. Don't be on some "I don't believe in labels" shit if what you want is commitment. Better to learn that lesson in your teens, trust me.)

Charlie was used just right in this ep. "Sometimes I lie." Ruby was used the same, and I really wish Bow (or better yet, Dre) would check her on talking shit about Bow in the house Bow pays the mortgage on.

[vibeology]

4 hours ago, Michel said:

So Bow as a "girl dream" before Zoey's birth, a "boy dream" before Junior's birth, and a "boy dream" followed by a "lucid nightmare" before Jack and Diane's births.  Sigh.  Guess they picked the "Diane is creepy/evil" thread back up, further demonstrated by her suddenly appearing near Zoey throughout the episode.

Except for the Lucid nightmare line, I actually thought they went out of their way to humanize Diane this episode. She wants so badly to hang out with her cool older sister and be accepted by Zoe and Zoe doesn't even notice that she's around to the point that Diane can enter and room and Zoe doesn't pick up on it. Jack and Diane used to be joined at the hip but since they're growing up we're seeing more and more how they want to be close with their older siblings and how each is figuring that sort of thing out. Diane loved hugging! And she cuddled up with Junior. That's pretty sweet.

54 minutes ago, AyeshaTheGreat said:

Further to the name thing, I probably used to judge people for their names.  Then I realized that it was mostly fellow Black Americans that were being judged and decided to stop.  No one questions the meaning of the stereotypical lily white names.  Those names are actually greeted with an expectation of success. 

Of course, Dre would go all the way with naming his son but I do not think parents, especially Black parents, should go looking for "safe" names if that is not a name they really want.  We all know that "respectability politics" do not tend to work for Black people. 

While, the naming concerns were true, I don't think Dre was "wrong" or even "whiny" about it.  He recognized the challenges of such a name, decided against doubling down and gave DeVante the middle name of Matthew.

I have to say, I started the episode out more in line with Ruby or Bow and ended siding with Dre. Ideas, sadly, won't change until they are challenged. A name is really just a jumble of sounds and if its been around long enough, people ascribe a meaning to it. What makes Andre or Jack a "real" name and DeVante something made up? Are there going to be challenges? Of course. The systemic racism caked into our society will make things harder for a DeVante than a Jack but things aren't going to get better if we as a society keep making the same assumptions and choices. For Dre, Devante means something to him and makes him feel a certain connection to his past. That should be more than enough.

Also, what I know for certain after watching this episode is that Bow must have named Diane first and then Dre came in with Jack because I do not believe Bow would make Jack & Diane happen intentionally.

[shura]

27 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I think with those names, there's a class assumption more than a racial one (and the same is true for Black names).

There is also an assumption of certain behavior or personality, I think. It is racist, to be sure, but it may not come from the idea of racial superiority or inferiority, necessarily. For most white people, their exposure to names like Devonte probably only comes from celebrities, not from regular people. There really may be an "NFL wide receiver territory" effect there. Let's face it, young athletes (of all races) are sometimes prone to exhibiting the kind of behavior that, let's put it this way, makes it hard to admire their character. But when you hear "Johnny", the name is so common that you don't necessarily think "selfish, immature idiot", whereas when you hear "Vontaze" and the only Vontaze you've ever heard of is the guy breaking people's legs, you will probably have a certain negative image in your head.  

[readster]

I have to agree, I mean my niece has the name: "Emma" extremely common, especially after the birth of the character on friends. However, I work with kids all the time with names I can't pronounce half the time or ones where I want to go: "Really, after that movie character?" So, yeah, I see where everyone is coming from. Some days I just want to go: "You were going with so different or show such an uncommon name, you went too far." 

[attica]

In a bit of synchronicity, Miss Manners disapproves of gender-reveal parties in today's column. (WaPo link, so maybe a paywall if you've used up your freebies.)

I have a sneaking suspicion that when the baby arrives, the French-Canadian-hating baker will have gotten it wrong, and Bow's dream will prove right. Because that's a thing that happens on teevee.

[Happytobehere]

2 hours ago, AyeshaTheGreat said:

Considering Dre is naming his son after the man behind Jodeci's sound, I am going to say the name is spelled "DeVante".  The funniest part of this naming to me was that DeVante Swing's real name is Donald.  And when Bow said he was the least important member, I said "Dalvin" around the same time as Dre.  And my last point on Jodeci: Bow deciding to rank DeVante as 3rd most important member when he is at least the 2nd most important.  I did want to hear her list of the 4 '90s groups better than Jodeci.  I can say Boyz II Men and EnVogue but then it gets murky.

So much YES to this.  When Bow ranked DeVante last, my first thought was did she have a case of the happy pants for Mr. Dalvin.  Also, I think from a strictly musical standpoint, a strong case could be made that DeVante Swing was the most important member because so much of the sound production and songwriting was him.  He was to Jodeci what Teddy Riley was to Guy and every other variation of New Jack Swing group he was in.  

I never wanted to scream STFU Dre more than when he interrupted Bow's 90s music group countdown, especially given she rightly ranked Boyz II Men first.

I enjoyed Ruby siding with Bow over the baby's name.

Junior and Diane watching tv together was great because we don't often get to see bonding moments with those two.

Given that Dre is a habitual asshole, especially when it comes to the treatment of his kids, something Junior pointed out, I think the kid most hurt by Dre's comments was probably Zoe because she has clearly always been his favorite, so knowing that on some level, her father viewed her as less than must have been crushing.  However, all the kids are being scarred by his awfulness and I dont get Bow's tacitly co-signing on his behaviors (it is live a live action version of Marge and Homer Simpson).  I think Junior will need to be in therapy for the rest of his life thanks to Dre.  Jack will likely work to please even more, and Diane will most likely retreat further into her defensive shell, something we saw her trying to break in her efforts to connect with Zoe.

[PradaKitty]

We have a neighbor named Aquanetta. When I introduced her to my mother, she asked if she was named after the hairspray ((Aquanet) !!!

[Happytobehere]

1 hour ago, vibeology said:

Also, what I know for certain after watching this episode is that Bow must have named Diane first and then Dre came in with Jack because I do not believe Bow would make Jack & Diane happen intentionally.

Actually, we saw Bow waxing poetic about Jack and Diane being named for the John Cougar Melloncamp (or whatever variation of his name he was using at the time) song.  Jack and Diane were rightly horrified to know that their namesakes were not siblings but lovers.  That episode made me think it was a Bow thing, even if Dre agreed.

[Sheenieb]

Quote

Also, what I know for certain after watching this episode is that Bow must have named Diane first and then Dre came in with Jack because I do not believe Bow would make Jack & Diane happen intentionally.

I'm sure their names came from the John Mellencamp song. 

My mom's a teacher, so I'm aware of how creative some parents can be. My sister also has an unusual name, so it's not as if I can talk too much shit. However! The worst name I've heard in my mother's class was Mister. Y'all, why would any parent name their child after Celie's mean ass husband?! And, of course, the kid was a little asshole, too. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Sheenieb

[Happytobehere]

27 minutes ago, attica said:

In a bit of synchronicity, Miss Manners disapproves of gender-reveal parties in today's column. (WaPo link, so maybe a paywall if you've used up your freebies.)

I have a sneaking suspicion that when the baby arrives, the French-Canadian-hating baker will have gotten it wrong, and Bow's dream will prove right. Because that's a thing that happens on teevee.

The baker only opened the envelope provided by Bow's doctor.  So, the sonogram would be wrong, which actually happened to my cousin.  All the scans said it was a girl and she bought and got gifts based on this belief but she had a boy.  Doctor was like, "My bad, the baby must not have been properly positioned during any of the scans."

[AyeshaTheGreat]

24 minutes ago, Happytobehere said:

So much YES to this.  When Bow ranked DeVante last, my first thought was did she have a case of the happy pants for Mr. Dalvin.  Also, I think from a strictly musical standpoint, a strong case could be made that DeVante Swing was the most important member because so much of the sound production and songwriting was him.  He was to Jodeci what Teddy Riley was to Guy and every other variation of New Jack Swing group he was in.  

I never wanted to scream STFU Dre more than when he interrupted Bow's 90s music group countdown, especially given she rightly ranked Boyz II Men first.

 

While I definitely see an argument for DeVante being #1, I can see K-Ci in that spot as well.  I actually was going to say they are a tie because of their different yet important contributions to Jodeci.

I am not sure if you saw a recent social media debate after the NE story but it was about which group was better, Jodeci or Boyz II Men.  I have always liked both but I've been firmly on the Boyz II Men is first camp for a long time.

It's things like '90s R&B that gets me going so I am so happy this was a part of the storyline.

14 minutes ago, PradaKitty said:

We have a neighbor named Aquanetta. When I introduced her to my mother, she asked if she was named after the hairspray ((Aquanet) !!!

If I am not mistaken, on a later season episode of Martin, there was a character named "Aquanetta".  The joke turned on the surprise that she was white.

[Driad]

I wonder why they did not look at names that are being used in Africa. (Maybe some of the names they mentioned are, but they seemed to be looking mainly at celebrities.) They might even have taken DNA tests, and if (for example) they both had ancestry from Nigeria, they could look at Nigerian names. Not complaining about how they chose, but this might have been an interesting option.

[attica]

23 minutes ago, Happytobehere said:

The baker only opened the envelope provided by Bow's doctor.  So, the sonogram would be wrong

Maybe, or maybe the baker made the mistake. Or the baker told his assistant to do the cake, and the assistant got it wrong. Because haven't we all known people who have no reading comprehension or who can't follow directions?  (Yes, this is a hill I'm dying on. Hee.)

My mother used to talk about her childhood friend Juanita. I knew she grew up in a rural area that didn't have migrant farm help, so I was all, Cool! Mom had a Mexican friend! Years later, I met her, a nice white lady. Her name was Waneta, not Juanita. Fun with homophones!

[Empress1]

9 minutes ago, AyeshaTheGreat said:

While I definitely see an argument for DeVante being #1, I can see K-Ci in that spot as well.  I actually was going to say they are a tie because of their different yet important contributions to Jodeci.

I am not sure if you saw a recent social media debate after the NE story but it was about which group was better, Jodeci or Boyz II Men.  I have always liked both but I've been firmly on the Boyz II Men is first camp for a long time.

Boyz II Men will always be #1 to me. I'm from Philly.