S08.E22: Reunion Part 2

[izabella]

39 minutes ago, msblossom said:

Carole did have a pretty strong reaction to what Jules said because Carole is clearly hung up on the whole age thing.

I think this is directly a function of dating a guy young enough to be her son.  That creates a lot of sensitivity because it is always in her face, every time she sees Adam, every time she thinks about having (now, less than) 5 good summers left, when she talked about the cookbook not being published for a year even if picked up now, every single day she is with Adam.  It's a very sore subject for her, and honestly?  I think she would be free of her sensitivity and fear around age if she dumped Adam. 

When I was about 36 or 37, I started dating a guy 6 or 7 years younger than me.  Not really a big age difference, but I was totally self-conscious about being older and what that would mean for us, and it made me FEEL old.  As soon as I ended that, I suddenly didn't feel old anymore.  I just felt like myself and was able to relax about my age.  I'm 48 now, engaged to a man my age, and feel so much better about everything than I did the few months I dated the youngster, lol. 

I truly believe Carole would be a lot happier about her age and herself if she weren't dating Adam.

[Natalie68]

1 minute ago, KungFuBunny said:

I think Dorinda's comment that Carole could be Jules' mother and pointing out the math of 18 years was seriously stealth slick SHADE.

One to point out that Carole is childless

and two to say you could be Adam's mom

Comments on someones age/menopause status or childed status meant as an insult means you don't have much going on between the ears.  Be a bit more creative.  And I HATE women doing this to each other.  We are better than that.  

[LIMOM]

17 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

It tells me that Lu cares about dick (and spending someone elses money) more than she cares about her friend.

Yes, Luann is the opposite of a girls girl.

While Sonja is a bit eccentric, she and Jules are the kindest women of this show.

[Ellee]

OK.  HOLY CRAP!!!  I must really not have a clue about the RHONY's.   Not a real fan of the Inquisiter but here's an article re:  Ramona/Sonja.  Then if you make it down to halfway there are links to other articles pointing to ....oh, say....some of Sonja's resentment.  LOL, haven't read them but Ima gonna.  :D

 

http://www.inquisitr.com/3496023/ramona-singer-a-bad-friend-sonja-morgans-daughter-probably-knows-how-to-act-better/

 

ETA:  Added links under Sonja thread.  Nothing really exciting or earth shattering.  Should have read first and posted later.  Sorry.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Ellee

[LIMOM]

Just now, Ellee said:

OK.  HOLY CRAP!!!  I must really not have a clue about the RHONY's.   Not a real fan of the Inquisiter but here's an article re:  Ramona/Sonja.  Then if you make it down to halfway there are links to other articles pointing to ....oh, say....some of Sonja's resentment.  LOL, haven't read them but Ima gonna.  :D

 

http://www.inquisitr.com/3496023/ramona-singer-a-bad-friend-sonja-morgans-daughter-probably-knows-how-to-act-better/

Hints?

[ryebread]

59 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

Jules of all of the women on the reunion wins best dressed and best hair and makeup. Her pics from her own Twitter and Instagram show a downward spiral. She’s lost her hair and now wears lace front wigs. She appears emaciated. I hope she has a strong support system around her.

I just looked at Jules' IG for the first time.  She looks the same to me.  How can you tell she's wearing a lace front?  There's one pic of her and a friend where both of their hairlines look wonky.  Almost like it was photoshopped badly. Is that the one you're talking about?

As far as friends, looking at her IG account sent me down a rabbit hole of the IG accounts of some of her friends.  And she seems to have many. Many. The kind that hang out with her at home - hers and theirs - watch TV, eat dinner.  I think she'll be just fine.

Has anyone commented how close on the sofa Dorinda, Sonja and Jules were sitting? Practically on each other's laps.

[Ellee]

2 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

Hints?

Name of articles are:  Sonja Morgan Says ‘Truth Will Come Out’ About Dorinda Medley’s Drug Use

                                   Sonja Morgan Doesn’t Believe Berkshires Trip Was Set Up: ‘I Have My Own Opinions’

                                   Sonja Morgan Reveals Just How Horrible A Friend Luann de Lesseps Really Is

LOL, I'll test my virus software....giggling.... Should I bring snippets of articles back to read here or under Sonja's thread? 

[gingerella]

15 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Sheesh, the dude is supposedly worth 25 mil & now he's crying that he's broke (yeah, right) & he only has to throw Jules a paltry 10 thou a month?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3780651/Jules-Wainstein-awarded-10k-month-estranged-husband-Michael-divorce-hearing-businessman-says-t-afford-it.html

How is he affording that gigantic joint if he's broke?  What a slimy little meatball.  Oh man, Jules can go thru 10 thou in a couple of days.  How is she gonna make that last for a whole month?  Maybe she needs to get some tips from Sonja?  How about nanny interns?

I may be the only viewer who thinks this but, I think Jules is way smarter than she comes off on the show. Her parents seemed fairly normal and intelligent, and from what we saw this season, I wouldn't be surprised at all if a savvy NYC divorce attorney told her, "Yes!!! Go on this show, and expose your philandering husband's philandering, catch it all on tape as much as possible, and reference all his hinky behavior as much as possible ON TAPE, so we can get you a nice settlement*." I thought that every single time I heard her mention: him coming home and always having to take a shower immediately; him disappearing to the Hamptons a lot; him dropping off the radar when Jules is out of town - dropping kids at his parents and then going dark; him always being on the phone when they are out - cut to cameraman catching him taking a selfie while on the phone in a restaurant (what the hell kind of business call requires you to either take a selfie OR show where you are during the actual call?!); her asking the camera 'WHO is he talking to all the time?!?'.  It feels to me like all of this was Jules' way of catching him out on tape, so that a judge would see the kind of scumbag he really is.  Yes Jules is a nutty chick battling an eating disorder amongst other things, but compared to Michael she comes off as a nice, sweet - albeit ditzy - saint on the show. So yeah, I think it was very calculated, and I think she was being coached off camera by a team of very savvy attorneys.

* ETA: And I suspect that the producers knew this about Jules and that's why they honed in on all the hinky behavior of Michael. It was way too obvious. And he presents himself as the type of guy who thinks he can get away with anything, and eventually those types are so overt that they trip themselves up...Karma's a bitch.

As for LuMan, I'm surprised there is so little disgust here towards her behavior this season. I found her to be absolutely unbearable this season and I hope she gets the boot but I doubt she will now that she is shedding her bullshit title to marry this little shithead.  Those two delusional asshats are a match made in heaven and deserve the misery they will inflict on each other. Couldn't happen to a harpier Ho'wife if you ask me.  The whole act of OMGTomWantsToMarryMeeeeeImGettingMarriiiiiiiiied was so fake. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing is a plot device to keep Lu on the show.

Edited September 9, 2016 by gingerella

[archer1267]

Even though Jules is not known for her witty rejoinders, I must say I enjoyed her line to Sonja the most of the night: "Now that I'm single, maybe I'll wind up dating Tom too!"

[KungFuBunny]

2 minutes ago, ryebread said:

I just looked at Jules' IG for the first time.  She looks the same to me.  How can you tell she's wearing a lace front?  There's one pic of her and a friend where both of their hairlines look wonky.  Almost like it was photoshopped badly. Is that the one you're talking about?

As far as friends, looking at her IG account sent me down a rabbit hole of the IG accounts of some of her friends.  And she seems to have many. Many. The kind that hang out with her at home - hers and theirs - watch TV, eat dinner.  I think she'll be just fine.

Has anyone commented how close on the sofa Dorinda, Sonja and Jules were sitting? Practically on each other's laps.

Re Jules - taking to Off Episodes thread

Dorinda seemed fine on the couch. It is Jules and Sonya that seem to be leaning into each other's laps. First I thought Jules is going closer to be in the camera shot. Sonya - I think she hates Dorinda...LOL

[ZaldamoWilder]

21 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

oh spare me

If that little turd's businesses are suffering from bad publicity surrounding his divorce it's because he was shown to be a shitty father and an adulterer.  It's his own fault.  It shouldn't be a reason to let him shortchange his wife and kids.  

uhm ... topic, okay ... Jules looked great on the reunion.  Being rid of the greasy troll looks good on her! 

Right?  Not even sure why she (the lawyer) is bothering with all that when the court requires proof of income.   One look at those tax returns and it's curtains.   Jules if you read or are read these boards, in case they "forget" to bring bank statements and stuff, screenshot the pic of Michael Home Goods'ing it up in the middle of the day with new chick in his chauffeured town car and Tom Fords.    When Andy asked her about allegations of abuse, then clarified with:  the allegation is you abused him and she hesitated, lawd please have mercy on my soul, I giggled.   I can't see an assbeating being in her wheelhouse but I know I wouldn't call it in.

15 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

I think Dorinda's comment that Carole could be Jules' mother and pointing out the math of 18 years was seriously stealth slick SHADE.

One to point out that Carole is childless

and two to say you could be Adam's mom

Should be embarrassed to admit it but that's my favorite type lol! 

[The Real Real]

19 minutes ago, Ellee said:

OK.  HOLY CRAP!!!  I must really not have a clue about the RHONY's.   Not a real fan of the Inquisiter but here's an article re:  Ramona/Sonja.  Then if you make it down to halfway there are links to other articles pointing to ....oh, say....some of Sonja's resentment.  LOL, haven't read them but Ima gonna.  :D

 

http://www.inquisitr.com/3496023/ramona-singer-a-bad-friend-sonja-morgans-daughter-probably-knows-how-to-act-better/

All I have to say about any of this is , Jeez, could Sonja be more gorgeous? No wonder they hate her and feel the need to put her down constantly.....jealous much Moner, Lu?

[LIMOM]

12 minutes ago, gingerella said:

I may be the only viewer who thinks this but, I think Jules is way smarter than she comes off on the show. Her parents seemed fairly normal and intelligent, and from what we saw this season, I wouldn't be surprised at all if a savvy NYC divorce attorney told her, "Yes!!! Go on this show, and expose your philandering husband's philandering, catch it all on tape as much as possible, and reference all his hinky behavior as much as possible ON TAPE, so we can get you a nice settlement." I thought that every single time I heard her mention: him coming home and always having to take a shower immediately; him disappearing to the Hamptons a lot; him dropping off the radar when Jules is out of town - dropping kids at his parents and then going dark; him always being on the phone when they are out - cut to cameraman catching him taking a selfie while on the phone in a restaurant (what the hell kind of business call requires you to either take a selfie OR show where you are during the actual call?!); her asking the camera 'WHO is he talking to all the time?!?'.  It feels to me like all of this was Jules' way of catching him out on tape, so that a judge would see the kind of scumbag he really is.  Yes Jules is a nutty chick battling an eating disorder amongst other things, but compared to Michael she comes off as a nice, sweet - albeit ditzy - saint on the show. So yeah, I think it was very calculated, and I think she was being coached off camera by a team of very savvy attorneys.

As for LuMan, I'm surprised there is so little disgust here towards her behavior this season. I found her to be absolutely unbearable this season and I hope she gets the boot but I doubt she will now that she is shedding her bullshit title to marry this little shithead.  Those two delusional asshats are a match made in heaven and deserve the misery they will inflict on each other. Couldn't happen to a harpier Ho'wife if you ask me.  The whole act of OMGTomWantsToMarryMeeeeeImGettingMarriiiiiiiiied was so fake. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing is a plot device to keep Lu on the show.

If your theory about Jules is accurate, more power to her.

that vertically challenged piece of shit fucked with the wrong bitch.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Real Housewives of New York City Reunion Part II: Ramona's Body Of Proof

Is Ramona hiding a smoking gun behind her reunion couch pillow of secrets?

[breezy424]

1 hour ago, Sai said:

TAKE IT DOWN!! Just kidding! ;)

Cripes, housewives aren't the only cruel ones.  That article says the husband agreed to pay the housing expenses for the wafer thin celebrity.  Then towards the end of the article it describes what she wore to court and says she was wearing black bell bottoms that hung off her.  Why the cruel digs?  

Unbelievable.  What if Jules was very obese.  Would this writer, a woman BTW, have to say.  Would she call her obese or fat?  Would she state that her belly was hanging over too tight pants?  Talk about weight shaming.  This is it.

It reminds me of when Carole asked Jules how much she weighed.  Would she have asked that if Jules was very obese?

[KungFuBunny]

13 minutes ago, gingerella said:

I may be the only viewer who thinks this but, I think Jules is way smarter than she comes off on the show. Her parents seemed fairly normal and intelligent, and from what we saw this season, I wouldn't be surprised at all if a savvy NYC divorce attorney told her, "Yes!!! Go on this show, and expose your philandering husband's philandering, catch it all on tape as much as possible, and reference all his hinky behavior as much as possible ON TAPE, so we can get you a nice settlement." I thought that every single time I heard her mention: him coming home and always having to take a shower immediately; him disappearing to the Hamptons a lot; him dropping off the radar when Jules is out of town - dropping kids at his parents and then going dark; him always being on the phone when they are out - cut to cameraman catching him taking a selfie while on the phone in a restaurant (what the hell kind of business call requires you to either take a selfie OR show where you are during the actual call?!); her asking the camera 'WHO is he talking to all the time?!?'.  It feels to me like all of this was Jules' way of catching him out on tape, so that a judge would see the kind of scumbag he really is.  Yes Jules is a nutty chick battling an eating disorder amongst other things, but compared to Michael she comes off as a nice, sweet - albeit ditzy - saint on the show. So yeah, I think it was very calculated, and I think she was being coached off camera by a team of very savvy attorneys.

As for LuMan, I'm surprised there is so little disgust here towards her behavior this season. I found her to be absolutely unbearable this season and I hope she gets the boot but I doubt she will now that she is shedding her bullshit title to marry this little shithead.  Those two delusional asshats are a match made in heaven and deserve the misery they will inflict on each other. Couldn't happen to a harpier Ho'wife if you ask me.  The whole act of OMGTomWantsToMarryMeeeeeImGettingMarriiiiiiiiied was so fake. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing is a plot device to keep Lu on the show.

I think she's slick and calculating. But again, her saying he showered...does not prove adultery in a court. Him always being on the phone - he's only on the phone at that one dinner with Dorinda and John. He's been in enough scenes where he is not on the phone - i.e. Sonya's dinner, Bethenny's BBQ, at home with the kids, in the Hamptons at their McDumpsite, the first meet and greet with Bethenny. Sadly being on the phone in that one scene also does not prove adultery. If Jules can bring this to court...then she opens the door to the footage of her own actions on film to be shown.

[The Real Real]

1 minute ago, breezy424 said:

Unbelievable.  What if Jules was very obese.  Would this writer, a woman BTW, have to say.  Would she call her obese or fat?  Would she state that her belly was hanging over too tight pants?  Talk about weight shaming.  This is it.

It reminds me of when Carole asked Jules how much she weighed.  Would she have asked that if Jules was very obese?

Who is that bag of skin and bones to ask ANYONE how much they weigh? Carole needs to watch her own weight and go eat something....... Does she and Beth shop the little girls section of Marshalls together?

[UsernameFatigue]

 

1 hour ago, KungFuBunny said:

Reunion Part 2 Jules highlight & flashbacks.

I think Dorinda + dirty martinis + alleged substances = blabbermouth. She is still lucid enough to twist the story to be self-beneficial. I do also think Dorinda is the one who told Bethenny & Carole about Jules “marital” issues to set them up and believing that they repeated ON film what she said. Dorinda then went back to Jules to say that Carole & Bethenny were saying negative things about her marriage…hence the Joanne’s meltdown. The sad thing for Jules is that it was herself and Dorinda that were the ones to bring up her marital issues on camera.

I do think Jules came on the show knowing they were headed for divorce. She was just blindsided as he filed first. Her lawyers have not counter filed with adultery as the grounds for divorce, as that is too difficult to prove.

 I also think her schtick and selling point to come onto RHNY were…I’m a stay at home super mom, Asian, Jewish, rich, business entrepreneur.

What she ended up showing was her own ineptness in the kitchen, she doesn’t know how to make coffee or tea yet we are supposed to believe she can make her cleanse.

Her BravoTV apt tour, she was very sure to show the Kosher Kitchen and how observant they are.  She’s Jewish but she said she was going to hell for almost eating shrimp…there is no “hell’ in Judaism only Gehinnom and it’s not the same thing. She remembers the sugar and junk food for the trip to the Hamptons but does not remember to bring bread and wine for prayer.

She wanted to portray a Supermom but she doesn’t know how to bathe her kids. She can’t get her son to eat a bagel but allows him to have popsicles for dinner. We only have her word on Michael’s bad parenting skills – but have her own actions on film. We have not seen Michael ever treat her or her children badly ON film. She talked about Michael being on the phone ALL the time – yet the only scene on film where he is on his phone is during the Dorinda/John dinner. She fell apart when she was nannyless. Her question to a nanny candidate was if she was willing to stand on a sample sale line and does she know how to do blowouts

I am not saying she does not love her children and does not deserve primary care of her children. But I am saying I don’t think Michael is a bad parent just because Jules says so.

Jules of all of the women on the reunion wins best dressed and best hair and makeup. Her pics from her own Twitter and Instagram show a downward spiral. She’s lost her hair and now wears lace front wigs. She appears emaciated. I hope she has a strong support system around her.

I don’t think Bravo fired her – they simply chose to NOT renew her contract.

Why does Jules say these last 10 years of marriage when in the Fiesta Finale the question was what is Michael getting you for your 8 is a lucky number anniversary?

10/10 KungFuBunny. Jules seemed to be proud of how clueless she was as a mother and dependent on the nanny. She even made comments that her own mother didn't have to do certain things, so she should not have to either. And the trip to their McMansion where there was a huge partition in the car separating she and Michael from the kids and nanny? Just plain weird. Add in her comment at the Berkshires where all the ladies were fighting but to her it was the best weekend ever because she was away from her children? Hardly mother of the year material. And many people have commented previously on her continual chatter at being Jewish, but that she often did not follow simple traditions that one would think would be important to someone who talks about her faith often. As far as being a business woman, I don't remember her even talking about her cleanse until she and Michael went to test it. Any business woman I know is in from the ground up and totally involved. We never saw that with Jules, and in fact she said that she never wanted to be a business woman. Seems like it just feel into her lap while she was busy directing the nanny to stand in lines for her. I wish Jules well, but have no interest in seeing her on my screen next season.

[psychoticstate]

10 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

I think she's slick and calculating. But again, her saying he showered...does not prove adultery in a court. Him always being on the phone - he's only on the phone at that one dinner with Dorinda and John. He's been in enough scenes where he is not on the phone - i.e. Sonya's dinner, Bethenny's BBQ, at home with the kids, in the Hamptons at their McDumpsite, the first meet and greet with Bethenny. Sadly being on the phone in that one scene also does not prove adultery. If Jules can bring this to court...then she opens the door to the footage of her own actions on film to be shown.

I don't think each individual event shows that he's an adulterer but I think if you combine them, and especially if they got Michael's phone records, it shows some dodgy behavior.  What's more important I think are the scenes that showed him not really taking care of or responding to the children.  Where he was sitting around doing nothing or on his phone, or even totally absent, while Jules was parenting, or his parents or the nanny.

If Michael's business has suffered, I have zero sympathy for him.  Maybe he should have considered that before he started cheating on his wife or acting like a little douchebag on tv.  The $10,000 referenced in the article linked a page or so back is also temporary support so it's likely she will get more.  It may also be why she elected not to return to the show next season - - no more Bravo income for her.

Totally mean but also wanted to say that their 3 year old daughter looks to be almost the same height as her a-hole father.  Just saying. 

 

9 minutes ago, The Real Real said:

Who is that bag of skin and bones to ask ANYONE how much they weigh? Carole needs to watch her own weight and go eat something....... Does she and Beth shop the little girls section of Marshalls together?

Of course not.  Bethenny would never shop at Marshalls.

I agree with your post though - - Carole has no room to question anyone's weight.  Now she may be naturally thin, she may not eat, she may be stressed - -it really doesn't matter.  I never ask anyone what size they wear or how much they weigh.  It's like asking what their income is and how often they are sexually active.  Just don't do it.

[Petunia13]

For Part 3 of the Reunion, Carole's ghostwriter will guest and reveal the cover of her new book about Bethenny & Carole's friendship. 

[jaync]

Quote

"I really do think that her despicable and tragic behavior speaks for itself.  I think that coming in to to kind of get the stench off of you and attacking someone else with just a complete falsehood was it was so blindside[sic]... I was sick that day, I had strep, I had a 102 fever, and I was like "wha".  I felt like someone came in with a 2x4. Like I was crawling out of a hole that I don't know why someone dumped me in.  It was crazy.  That was really crazy."  -- Bethenny on WWHL regarding Luann.  

She also said the phone call to her married boyfriend's daughter was totally spontaneous. She's so phenomenally full of shit, the toilet's jealous.

Quote

You can pitch all you want (see scenes of Carole pitching a book with Adam) but that doesn't mean you've succeeded.

True that. How are those candies selling, by the way?

I wouldn't be surprised if Bethany has invested her own money into the show. It would explain the endless, desperate plugging of her SG shit, as well as her claims that she's responsible for some of the casting, and that it's "her" show.

Quote

If she were well loved and popular and said the exact same thing, folks wouldn't have a problem with it at all because it was a fairly normal reaction. 

Unless you're Miss Cleo, nobody knows what folks would/wouldn't have a problem with until the scenario actually happens.

Quote

I do also think Dorinda is the one who told Bethenny & Carole about Jules “marital” issues to set them up and believing that they repeated ON film what she said.

If that were true, there's no way Bethany wouldn't tattle on Dorinda, imo. No way.

[shoegal]

4 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

I don't consider Jules' age comments to be age shaming. She wasn't poking fun at the women's ages for the hell of it. At least all of the times I can recall, she referenced their ages because she was surprised that women so far along in life could behave so stupidly. It's no different than telling a teenager that they're old enough to know the difference between right or wrong. Yeah, well all of those women have enough life experience that they should know how to behave in public, to be respectful when speaking. They know better, they should do better - that is what it all boils down. Jules using terms like 'elderly' I see it as an attempt to really highlight the juvenile behaviour of the other women, in contrast for someone who is at least a decade younger than them, Jules has displayed much better decorum toward the other women and handled herself infinitely better when shit was hitting the fan. 

Her constant need to showcase her identity became a running joke but all that said, I do like Jules. She's a genuinely likeable person to me. She's a girl's girl. She's not petty or sitting at the edge of her seat wanting to gossip about the one woman that isn't in the room. When she's with her friends, she wants to have fun. That's it. 

WTF did Jules think she was walking into?  This ain't an episode of the Golden Girls, Jules, it's the Real Housewives.   Surely Jules is not this big of a dumbass.

I think that Jules is exactly like Brandi in that she wants to point out that she is YOUNGER than these women, that these women are old and dried up and she's still young and juicy.  It's super rude and shortsighted IMO.  It's as if Jules (and Brandi) believe they will never be old.  Well guess what ladies?  Menopause is coming for you, too.

[VioletMarx]

1 hour ago, Natalie68 said:

Comments on someones age/menopause status or childed status meant as an insult means you don't have much going on between the ears.  Be a bit more creative.  And I HATE women doing this to each other.  We are better than that.  

Please. This show is about women acting out the worst possible gender stereotypes by attacking and insulting each other for the amusement of viewers. Are we going to start deciding the age insults are worse than weight insults? Marriage and dating insults? General appearance insults? 

[Natalie68]

3 minutes ago, VioletMarx said:

Please. This show is about women acting out the worst possible gender stereotypes by attacking and insulting each other for the amusement of viewers. Are we going to start deciding the age insults are worse than weight insults? Marriage and dating insults? General appearance insults? 

So I guess it doesn't bug you.  I think it is low hanging fruit.  Reach higher.  

[WireWrap]

Andy is getting slammed for the reunion, as usual. LOL  http://www.allaboutthetea.com/2016/09/09/twitter-thrashes-andy-cohen-after-bethenny-frankels-explosive-rhony-reunion/

Read the comment section, someone mentioned the cast photo, something I didn't really pay attention to but they are right! Everyone is in SKG colors! Bethenny and Ramona are dressed in red, while the others are wearing black. LOL  http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city

[Yours Truly]

3 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

I wouldn't say the emphasis is on his behavior as much as the combination of the overall sketchiness of blurring the details of events that he's stated weren't significant + Lu's dismissal of the women's credibility when confronted with it.    Sonja's memories cannot be relied upon, but Ramona has no trouble with recall (she even brought an ass-warmed crumpled up receipt), regardless each of them easily named at least 5 instances when they'd been with him versus his claim of ONCE for each.  Neither of which he disclosed to Lu upfront.   The point of any of that is:  he's a liar.   You don't purposely obscure the details of a thing that doesn't matter.   It doesn't matter, remember?   It's not that complicated to me either, if you're about to marry a liar, you should know that.   She chooses to believe him because the alternative disturbs the investment of her fantasy.   And that's her prerogative but I don't think the current fire is about her choice.   Dorinda was like ok even with all ya'll are saying at the end of the day she's marrying this man.  We're all clear on that.   Since getting back from Miami though, she (and he) worked to make the other women look bad for delivering a message when the problem is the message.   It's not her choice of salvation that makes me sad for her, it does, but not as sad as that this is too youngirl/chickenheadish for Luann's life stage and for someone who has already made the conscious decision to put it behind her.     If it's behind you quit getting in your feelings when these chicks try it and simply don't feed em. 

Are we sure HE lied? Or is Lu downplaying what he did in fact inform her about? That's the other thing. Which is why I can believe Lu is fine with what she knows about her man. See I kinda believe that Tom was probably more up front about his involvment with Ramona and Sonja. Not vivid details mind you but I actually think that he addressed it with Lu in probably the average tone he felt it deserved when sharing it with her. Nothing big but mentionable and then Lu's reaction was probably shrug, okay, thanks for telling me.

It then becomes this big deal with the women so now Lu is in defense mode. We all know how terrible Lu is with this sort of stuff and for some reason I get the feeling that Lu is the one that already knew all there was to know about the situation but in order for it not to sound as grimy as all that SHE was the one that presented things to be not as elaborate as the women suggested. I feel like she is the one that introduced the less pearl clutchy version in an attempt to smoothly over those messy details and in turn made Tom seem like he wasn't as up front about stuff with Lu when I think he probably was. There's just something about their past that suggests to me that they both play by their own rules and make it known.  I know the theme is that Tom's a dog but for the life of me I can't understand that someone whose been doing what he does to the knowledge of everyone on the UES now decides that he's got to tuck his balls and scurry around with half truths.

Lu is pretty open about her dating past and as light as Lu was with Tom's (before all the scrutiny) I find it hard to believe that Tom and Lu weren't aware or decided NOT to make the other aware of whatever connections there may be between the two. Tom's reputation doesn't really reek of him being sneaky. A person who is that comfortable with his bachelor status, dating status and single's status doesn't need to all of a sudden downplay what is already common knowledge to a women who has a similar story at least in the more recent years. I don't buy it. I think Tom has been pretty up front and it was Lu who wanted to make their pairing not seem as scandalous as she knew the others would no doubt make it and she failed miserably. Not only did she fail but she put Tom in even worse of a light by implying that she wasn't completely aware of who his peckers been in. Or that he was less than upfront about it.

I'm not TRYING to defend Tom. I could care less. But there's this vibe that I can't shake and it has everything to do with Lu mishandling every sketchy scenario that graces her life. She's tries so hard at damage control that she puts the collateral in collateral damage.

SMH.

[zoeysmom]

I look at Tom's comments regarding exiling Sonja and Dorinda from their lives like this:  To Tom and Luann this is a real engagement and real wedding and marriage that is going to take place.  So a group of co-workers doubting the sincerity of the wedding and marriage, constantly comparing stories, digging around his personal life, talking to old girlfriends, delivering Luann news and views, offering unsolicited advice and commentary, calling Luann names would be getting old by July, when Sonja and Tom had this alleged conversation.  From what Carole said on the August 2, 2016, WWHL, it sounded as if she would be going to the wedding as it would be part of the show.   Tom had seen the footage of Sonja carrying on, including claiming she had been just days away from meet his folks until he was captivated by Luann, seen the footage of the whining and sobbing of Ramona and Sonja at their engagement party. 

So now it comes time for some serious conversations right before the Reunion and Sonja is flip and claimed she needed to check her diary for details, Luann is getting pretty ticked off and it would seem to me, that instead of just not inviting Sonja to the wedding, Tom was giving her the heads' up, to search her black little heart and for once think of someone else's feelings instead of her grandiose view of herself.   

Now onto Dorinda, when Tom had the conversation with Dorinda, from what Dorinda said, there was not plea for collusion, Tom wanted Dorinda to be there while the wait staff was interviewed regarding his making out.  Dorinda Meddler would then be expected to relay the content of the on camera interviews to the others. Something she seems to excel at.  I do not know if production nixed it because it might get dangerously close to the big reveal of who took the photos, or perhaps production did not want the 1-it was 2 hours of making out, visual to be minimized.  If what Dorinda said to Tom, it doesn't matter to me if it was one long kiss or two hours what you did was wrong - then Dorinda has a legitimate gripe.   If she was as off base as she was in the Berkshires when she decided Luann and Ramona were talking about her mom, when Luann said, "it says right here on the birthday cake, 'Happy Birthday Dorinda'," then perhaps Dorinda needed to hear that Tom would not be comfortable with he and Luann remaining friends her.  Dorinda resented the way Tom presented it?  Look it the mirror Dorinda.

If this were just a normal group of co-workers and some of them had gone as out of the way as they have to disparage the engagement,  marriage and Tom in particular, many of whom don't really know Tom, would anyone be shocked that not only are the not getting a wedding invitation, or Tom did not want to continue a friendship/acquaintanceship with this group?  It is like the mean old aunt who gossips about everyone and the one time a family member has the courage to say -"I don't want her at the wedding or any of the festivities," she goes off on the world saying what rotten SOBs the bride and groom are and how dare they not invite me .  It is their wedding, their marriage, who needs the aggravation?  Bethenny and Ramona have set a precedent and have been allowed to not film with their love interests, so why wouldn't Tom expect the same courtesy?  Luann could do her job without ever having to have him around the non-well wishers and continue her relationship with the women.

[ryebread]

1 minute ago, Natalie68 said:

So I guess it doesn't bug you.  I think it is low hanging fruit.  Reach higher.  

Well, the argument could also be made that we, mainly a group of women, sit around every Wednesday night watching this trainwreck and then comment on it for the rest of the week.  Thereby, giving Bravo the ability to keep filming this crap. 

There's a line in the sand in how far I'm willing to reach for that low hanging fruit.  If Beth is still the untouchable 'star' next season, I'm out.  And that pains me because NYC is one of my favorite cities in the world and I've always enjoyed RHONY up until mid-season of last year.  These franchises have been my guilty pleasure for years.  But once they start making me feel really guilty for watching them (looking at you, Atlanta and NJ), I'm able to break up with them faster than a certain UES balding bachelor can tell a lie.

[izabella]

16 minutes ago, jaync said:

She also said the phone call to her married boyfriend's daughter was totally spontaneous. She's so phenomenally full of shit, the toilet's jealous.

Bethy is big on bullshit.  It was so obvious that woman READ her prepared statement to us over the phone.  It was so obvious that she was waiting for that call because of her prepared statement and because Bethy gave no preamble, just, "I need you to defend my integrity" or some such, without even explaining wtf she was talking about, yet the daughter knew immediately and launched into her spiel AND continued reading as Bethy herself talked over her.  It almost sounded RECORDED, ffs.

[Natalie68]

1 minute ago, ryebread said:

Well, the argument could also be made that we, mainly a group of women, sit around every Wednesday night watching this trainwreck and then comment on it for the rest of the week.  Thereby, giving Bravo the ability to keep filming this crap. 

There's a line in the sand in how far I'm willing to reach for that low hanging fruit.  If Beth is still the untouchable 'star' next season, I'm out.  And that pains me because NYC is one of my favorite cities in the world and I've always enjoyed RHONY up until mid-season of last year.  These franchises have been my guilty pleasure for years.  But once they start making me feel really guilty for watching them (looking at you, Atlanta and NJ), I'm able to break up with them faster than a certain UES balding bachelor can tell a lie.

Ha!  Very true.  I just think things that are unable to be helped such as age and childed status (for some, some of us choose it) are off the table for ME.  They give us SO much to talk about and make fun of this seems too simple and mean.  Behavior seems more interesting to discuss (or poor fashion sense, these ladies have zero excuse for that).  But tossing out someone is old as an insult (or menopause stuff) seems too easy.  I would like to think we posters are nothing like these cartoon characters in their mean girl behavior.  There is no shame in age despite what some people think.

[shoegal]

33 minutes ago, VioletMarx said:

Please. This show is about women acting out the worst possible gender stereotypes by attacking and insulting each other for the amusement of viewers. Are we going to start deciding the age insults are worse than weight insults? Marriage and dating insults? General appearance insults? 

Well, while we are on the subject, I think there are two types of insults.  Insulting someone over something they can control, like their dating choices....some appearance and weight could fall under this too, like a boob job.  Then there are insults about things that you don't control, like your age or your physical appearance (for the most part).  I think of age as like skin color.  JMO.

[ElDosEquis]

Let me get this straight?

Some HWs can't make any comments/jokes about menopause and getting old. but they must listen to you chime in on who I date/want to marry and you tell me that I am a FUCKWHORESLUTDOLL!?!?!?!?

I think I just pissed me self, laughing. 

[Natalie68]

3 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

Let me get this straight?

Some HWs can't make any comments/jokes about menopause and getting old. but they must listen to you chime in on who I date/want to marry and you tell me that I am a FUCKWHORESLUTDOLL!?!?!?!?

I think I just pissed me self, laughing. 

Its like Shoegal said.  There are insults about things that can be changed and there are insults about things that can't.  They can't help they are older and perhaps in menopause.  But you can help whether or not you are a fuckwhoreslutdoll.  I hope you had some Depends on.  I won't make fun of you for that because incontinence can't be helped :) (JOKE!).

[jinjer]

Jules was not just saying, "You're old hahahahaha!" She was saying, "You're as old as my mother, yet you are acting like mean adolescents with your bullshit about my house and my appearance." hahaha..haha..ha. It was a dig not a joke.  They were mean assholes who were too old to be acting the way they were.  Their ages are definitely fair game when they are acting like tweens. It morphed into more general menopause digs. But she was also dealing with, "Look at her with the hair and the skinny, I just can't with her, I can't look at her she reminds me of my mother."  "Her husband is so short ('It's a sensitive topic')...you can be R2D2!" hahahaha!  And Carole with her comment, "It's not mean if it's true."  Well Carole it's true - you're menopausal, or you would notice you were if you had enough body fat to have gotten a period the last few years.

Jules did go for low hanging fruit with the age dig, but Jules is generally not a vicious person and doesn't go for the deeper jugular like Bethenny and these other vipers are used to.

[ZaldamoWilder]

31 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Are we sure HE lied? Or is Lu downplaying what he did in fact inform her about? That's the other thing. Which is why I can believe Lu is fine with what she knows about her man. See I kinda believe that Tom was probably more up front about his involvment with Ramona and Sonja. Not vivid details mind you but I actually think that he addressed it with Lu in probably the average tone he felt it deserved when sharing it with her. Nothing big but mentionable and then Lu's reaction was probably shrug, okay, thanks for telling me.

 

Yup.  Lol.  At least I am.   Lu got indignant when Andy said:  but he lied on the boat.    Probably in an effort to rest Tom's case she said ok Ramona go ahead tell us all the times you and Tom went out.   Then Ro proceeded to name the 5 different times and places they'd gone together.   If he's not a liar, there's nothing to downplay, no reason to corral the waitstaff at the Regency for Dorinda's benefit and no need to address or defend any of it.    

[Yours Truly]

2 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Yup.  Lol.  At least I am.   Lu got indignant when Andy said:  but he lied on the boat.    Probably in an effort to rest Tom's case she said ok Ramona go ahead tell us all the times you and Tom went out.   Then Ro proceeded to name the 5 different times and places they'd gone together.   If he's not a liar, there's nothing to downplay, no reason to corral the waitstaff at the Regency for Dorinda's benefit and no need to address or defend any of it.    

No I was saying do we know he lied to LU.....

I'm just saying that I get the feeling Lu knew the jist and she didn't require particulars from Tom but when the subject came up Lu was the one to come up with the details of times, occurences, la la la. Basing it off of what I'm sure were vague details that Tom provided Lu. I'm more inclined to believe that Lu spoke out of turn with the minimal info dhe had about it all thus the messy start of it all. I believe that the reason Lu had minimal input was because she DIDN'T want to know, not because he tried to hide anything from her. Or that Lu did know the particulars but wasn't keen on sharing it in it's entirety because it made everything look worse and we know how Lu feels about things looking bad. Anything coming from Tom afterwards would have to support Lu's initial claims.

I just feel like we are seeing classic mishandling of Lu and the consequences thereafter.  That's a scenario that I can believe instead of all the cloak and dagger shit.

[shoegal]

26 minutes ago, jinjer said:

Jules was not just saying, "You're old hahahahaha!" She was saying, "You're as old as my mother, yet you are acting like mean adolescents with your bullshit about my house and my appearance." hahaha..haha..ha. It was a dig not a joke.  They were mean assholes who were too old to be acting the way they were.  Their ages are definitely fair game when they are acting like tweens. It morphed into more general menopause digs. But she was also dealing with, "Look at her with the hair and the skinny, I just can't with her, I can't look at her she reminds me of my mother."  "Her husband is so short ('It's a sensitive topic')...you can be R2D2!" hahahaha!  And Carole with her comment, "It's not mean if it's true."  Well Carole it's true - you're menopausal, or you would notice you were if you had enough body fat to have gotten a period the last few years.

Jules did go for low hanging fruit with the age dig, but Jules is generally not a vicious person and doesn't go for the deeper jugular like Bethenny and these other vipers are used to.

I dunno, that sounds an awful lot to me like '...well you started it!'.....which doesn't exactly scream maturity LOL

PS-never understood why it's OK to make comments about Carole's weight, it never seems to inspire outrage or a defense

PPS- I thought B's comment about Michael being R2D2 was below the belt....the one thing I like about Michael is that he had enough self confidence to marry a woman who is taller. I thought they looked cute together.

Edited September 9, 2016 by shoegal

[Celia Rubenstein]

52 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I get the feeling that Lu is the one that already knew all there was to know about the situation but in order for it not to sound as grimy as all that SHE was the one that presented things to be not as elaborate as the women suggested. I feel like she is the one that introduced the less pearl clutchy version in an attempt to smoothly over those messy details and in turn made Tom seem like he wasn't as up front about stuff with Lu when I think he probably was.

This makes no sense.  If Tom told Luann the whole truth and it was actually Lu herself who decided to present a whitewashed version of what he admitted to on the show in order to "smooth the messy details,"  Luann would have had to know that Sonja and Ramona would point out on camera that what she was saying was complete bullshit.  Luann is one to try to put a nice face on things, I agree, but knowingly setting Tom up to look like a liar and setting herself up to look like an idiot for believing him in front of the whole world is not something I think she would ever do.  Luann is not that stupid.  

 

Quote

I know the theme is that Tom's a dog but for the life of me I can't understand that someone whose been doing what he does to the knowledge of everyone on the UES now decides that he's got to tuck his balls and scurry around with half truths.

Who is to say that is not how Tom has conducted himself all along?  Maybe he has been a ball-tucking, scurrying dog who has gone around telling half-truths for YEARS.  Lots of womanizers are.  It's how many of them operate.  Not everyone is Hugh Hefner rubbing his harem in your face and gloating about all the women he's had.  That crap may work with aspiring nudie models  who will overlook your shenanigans because they want to appear in your magazine, but it wouldn't fly with the monied UES women Tom prefers to bilk woo and I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that subterfuge, misdirection and half-truths are a BIG part of his repertoire.  

 

13 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I just feel like we are seeing classic mishandling of Lu and the consequences thereafter.  That's a scenario that I can believe instead of all the cloak and dagger shit.

I think the far less cloak-and daggery-scenario is that Tom is just a liar.  

[ElDosEquis]

47 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

Its like Shoegal said.  There are insults about things that can be changed and there are insults about things that can't.  They can't help they are older and perhaps in menopause.  But you can help whether or not you are a fuckwhoreslutdoll.  I hope you had some Depends on.  I won't make fun of you for that because incontinence can't be helped :) (JOKE!).

Nope, there is a difference between actually calling someone names and 'joking' about some petty little exposed vanity nerve that a person may own?

Let's reduce it to the basic grade school taunt of, "I'm fat and can lose weight, you are fucking ugly and there ain't no cure for that" kind of insults.

Unless beth was there to watch people shove lines up their nose or fuck their way thru Manhattan?

LOL, that's right, she has her 'sources'..........

P.S. I'd rather be incontinent than a raving, horomonal banshee/HW from XXXX once a month or when they realize the eggs start to rot?- Just kidding!! 

[Celia Rubenstein]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

If this were just a normal group of co-workers and some of them had gone as out of the way as they have to disparage the engagement,  marriage and Tom in particular, many of whom don't really know Tom, would anyone be shocked that not only are the not getting a wedding invitation, or Tom did not want to continue a friendship/acquaintanceship with this group? 

I wouldn't be shocked at that because what you are describing are people facing straightforward repercussions for things they have done in the past.  But that isn't what happened here. 

The groom contacted a woman insisting she meet with him to witness complete strangers put forth his version of a story so that she would spread this story among the couple's friends and then threatened her with being barred from the wedding and the bride forever if she didn't do what he wanted.  

Then the groom (purportedly) contacted another woman and pressured her into changing her narrative about their relationship to mesh with his own telling of it in order to obscure the fact that he had misrepresented their relationship to his bride, once again threatening to cut the woman off from the wedding and the bride if she did not do what he demanded. 

These are not people being held accountable for disparaging the happy couple and being excluded from the wedding because of it. These are two women who Tom wants to force/manipulate into telling stories of dubious credibility that will advance his interests and conceal his wrongdoing, who, when they refused, were faced with expulsion from the bride's universe as punishment for not following his orders.  That is NOT the same thing as barring your aunt who openly badmouths your fiance from the wedding.  Not even close.  jmho/ymmv

[Natalie68]

4 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

Nope, there is a difference between actually calling someone names and 'joking' about some petty little exposed vanity nerve that a person may own?

Let's reduce it to the basic grade school taunt of, "I'm fat and can lose weight, you are fucking ugly and there ain't no cure for that" kind of insults.

Unless beth was there to watch people shove lines up their nose or fuck their way thru Manhattan?

LOL, that's right, she has her 'sources'..........

P.S. I'd rather be incontinent than a raving, horomonal banshee/HW from XXXX once a month or when they realize the eggs start to rot?- Just kidding!! 

I always thought with those insinuations she had actually witnessed it.  I am merely a viewer and it looked to ME that coke was a drug of choice for this group.  I think they are all aware of Lu being quite generous with her sexuality without having witnessed the actual act.

I guess we can agree to disagree on the what we find offensive.  

[ElDosEquis]

3 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

I always thought with those insinuations she had actually witnessed it.  I am merely a viewer and it looked to ME that coke was a drug of choice for this group.  I think they are all aware of Lu being quite generous with her sexuality without having witnessed the actual act.

I guess we can agree to disagree on the what we find offensive.  

I don't agree or disagree with anyone.

I am merely a viewer and it looked to me that fibroids, blood loss and stupidity is the excuse of choice for that group.

I'd pick an experienced woman over some screaming fibroid who THOUGHT she knew everything that happens behind closed doors - Just kidding.

[zoeysmom]

2 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

I don't think each individual event shows that he's an adulterer but I think if you combine them, and especially if they got Michael's phone records, it shows some dodgy behavior.  What's more important I think are the scenes that showed him not really taking care of or responding to the children.  Where he was sitting around doing nothing or on his phone, or even totally absent, while Jules was parenting, or his parents or the nanny.

If Michael's business has suffered, I have zero sympathy for him.  Maybe he should have considered that before he started cheating on his wife or acting like a little douchebag on tv.  The $10,000 referenced in the article linked a page or so back is also temporary support so it's likely she will get more.  It may also be why she elected not to return to the show next season - - no more Bravo income for her.

Totally mean but also wanted to say that their 3 year old daughter looks to be almost the same height as her a-hole father.  Just saying. 

 

Of course not.  Bethenny would never shop at Marshalls.

I agree with your post though - - Carole has no room to question anyone's weight.  Now she may be naturally thin, she may not eat, she may be stressed - -it really doesn't matter.  I never ask anyone what size they wear or how much they weigh.  It's like asking what their income is and how often they are sexually active.  Just don't do it.

Apparently Michael's affair's husband acknowledged the relationship between Michael and his wife. 

The only reason Bethenny wouldn't shop at Marshall's is because she has an endorsement deal with TJ Maxx/Ross/Home Goods.  Her clothing not so much but her house is filled with TJMaxx?Home Goods stuff.

I don't understand the total lack of propriety about asking people personal questions.  Any dodge or attempt at deflection brands the person a liar, a born liar, instead of the person being asked saying, "none of your business."

[VioletMarx]

2 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

So I guess it doesn't bug you.  I think it is low hanging fruit.  Reach higher.  

What exactly is "higher" on this show? You're watching a show about people hitting below the belt and you're picking one spot they should avoid? Everything they hurl at each other is vile.

1 hour ago, shoegal said:

Well, while we are on the subject, I think there are two types of insults.  Insulting someone over something they can control, like their dating choices....some appearance and weight could fall under this too, like a boob job.  Then there are insults about things that you don't control, like your age or your physical appearance (for the most part).  I think of age as like skin color.  JMO.

So you're good with fat jokes. That's not low hanging fruit. Got it.

[Duke2801]

5 hours ago, sasha206 said:

This is a very good point; however, I think the reason why she gets high fived her is because although every now and then Carole will make a comment on the age difference w/Adam, Carole herself has made many cracks about Ramona's age as if Carole is much, much younger.  

So in the case of Lu slut shaming, I think the difference here is that while Bethenny wants her to "own" it, I think Lu has indeed owned that she has a healthy libido.  She doesn't appear to be hiding it even though clearly she was trying to hide the Pirate b/c she was in a relationship. Whereas with Carole, I sometimes get the impression that she still thinks she's a 20 something and everyone else in the cast is much older.  And I don't think Dorinda's comment was really age-shaming Carole either.  What she said was fact; what Bethenny said was a gross generalization on someone who has a healthy sex life and is single.  Although I suspect that Dorinda said what she did because like me, she probably thinks Carole views herself as a much younger person than her chronological age.

Jules was blasted all over this board (including me) for her age shaming comments.  That's the biggest reason I didn't like her in the beginning.

I do see what you are saying.  I guess I just don't see Carole as not owning her age.  Like I mentioned, she had that whole talking head about how she had only 5 good summers left, and that is why she knew she and Adam were likely not a "forever" thing.  She also very cheerfully and proudly celebrated her 50th birthday a few seasons ago. I don't see that as somebody in denial or embarrassed by their biological age. 

Now a 54 year-old Ramona saying that she's having a "pregnancy" scare?  Sonja "bragging" about how heavy (gag) her period to her intern at the toaster oven shoot with Heather?  Those are ladies who might be in denial about their age. 

3 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

I think Dorinda's comment that Carole could be Jules' mother and pointing out the math of 18 years was seriously stealth slick SHADE.

One to point out that Carole is childless

and two to say you could be Adam's mom

Agreed on all points.  It was shade.  And that's fine.  All - or most - of the women have shady things to say about each other at one point or another.  But let's call a spade a spade.

[shoegal]

5 minutes ago, VioletMarx said:

So you're good with fat jokes. That's not low hanging fruit. Got it.

I'm not really concerned with how low the fruit hangs, I'm just talking about things you can control versus things you can't.

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Yup.  Lol.  At least I am.   Lu got indignant when Andy said:  but he lied on the boat.    Probably in an effort to rest Tom's case she said ok Ramona go ahead tell us all the times you and Tom went out.   Then Ro proceeded to name the 5 different times and places they'd gone together.   If he's not a liar, there's nothing to downplay, no reason to corral the waitstaff at the Regency for Dorinda's benefit and no need to address or defend any of it.    

 Is it possible that he just doesn't remember exactly how many dates they went on or how many times he/Sonja had sex with each other and is just guessing? I ask this because I don't think guys keep count of these things, especially if they are not serious with the woman. Hell, most guys don't remember important dates, like BDs and anniversaries, with a woman they are head over heels in love with but we expect Tom to remember how many dates he/Ramona had in 1 week and how many hook ups he/Sonja had over a 10 year span when neither woman can keep her count straight. Ramona went from a "couple of dates to 4, then 7, then 12, then back to 4 or 5 and Sonja made it seem like they were hooking up far more than what she said on the reunion but we expect Tom to remember it correctly and match whatever number they give. LOL

[zoeysmom]

24 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I wouldn't be shocked at that because what you are describing are people facing straightforward repercussions for things they have done in the past.  But that isn't what happened here. 

The groom contacted a woman insisting she meet with him to witness complete strangers put forth his version of a story so that she would spread this story among the couple's friends and then threatened her with being barred from the wedding and the bride forever if she didn't do what he wanted.  

Then the groom (purportedly) contacted another woman and pressured her into changing her narrative about their relationship to mesh with his own telling of it in order to obscure the fact that he had misrepresented their relationship to his bride, once again threatening to cut the woman off from the wedding and the bride if she did not do what he demanded. 

These are not people being held accountable for disparaging the happy couple and being excluded from the wedding because of it. These are two women who Tom wants to force/manipulate into telling stories of dubious credibility that will advance his interests and conceal his wrongdoing, who, when they refused, were faced with expulsion from the bride's universe as punishment for not following his orders.  That is NOT the same thing as barring your aunt who openly badmouths your fiance from the wedding.  Not even close.  jmho/ymmv

Wouldn't the witnesses put forth THEIR version of the story?  I think of witnesses as neutral until they express something else.

There is just a lot of assumption based on Dorinda's statement.  She never said he was asking her to lie.  I find Dorinda to be a little self-serving and if her comments are broken down, she perhaps put the emphasis on the wrong part.  I also don't think Tom should have involved Dorinda, if she was uncomfortable hearing another version of the story.  Obviously, Bethenny, Carole, Sonja and Ramona didn't think enough of her to include her in the Tom news.

I don't think saying, "here is how it is going to go down,  The wait staff will come over and tell their story on camera and you will disseminate the results to the other ladies."  If Dorinda is uncomfortable with such a scenario -fine.   She has to know this was a couple struggling to clear the air or at least clean some of the stench out of it.   Was Tom wrong for saying Luan would not be friends with her-probably, but I think the reality is, that in their real lives, Dorinda may not be a part of their lives. 

I don't believe Sonja, only because she was so over the top about how involved she and Tom were and has continued the bullshit even last month saying she wasn't able to try out her vaginal rejuvenation because Luann was marrying her lover.  She went with the lowest number thrown out by Andy.  I do think it is entirely appropriate to ask someone to STFU about a sore spot.  The wedding isn't about Sonja, it is about Luann and Tom. 

[zoeysmom]

http://pagesix.com/2016/09/08/ramona-could-never-be-with-a-man-like-luanns-fiance/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=P6Twitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow

A cooch activity report from Ramona.  It is safely tucked away while she enjoys the company of wonderful men.   She is still talking about Tom.  Geez, give it a rest.

[VioletMarx]

17 minutes ago, shoegal said:

I'm not really concerned with how low the fruit hangs, I'm just talking about things you can control versus things you can't.

I don't understand why it would be acceptable to cherry pick any parts of a person's life to insult. Why it is anyone's business how much you weigh or who you date or how much sex you have OR how old you are? It's kind of ludicrous to me that some people think some of these topics are A-OK and some should be off limits. Either you're good with watching people observe their coworkers' lives and say horribly insulting things about them on TV for money or you're not. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by VioletMarx