Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[CalicoKitty]

I thought she posted it because she thought is was cute somehow.  Holding the garden tool without his hands seems like something a kid his age would come up with.

[auntieminem]

First thing I noticed but since he is not an adolescent I figured it was innocent. I am sure he will love that picture when he sees it in his young adult years. We all have those funny and/or embarrassing pictures.  Glad Jill is ok with it instead of making a big deal out of it. 

[BigBingerBro]

Why is Israel always squinting?  It doesn't seem that sunny.  I hope he gets a routine eye exam.

[emmawoodhouse]

25 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

Why is Israel always squinting?  It doesn't seem that sunny.  I hope he gets a routine eye exam.

Wouldn't his teacher catch it and talk to Jill? Doesn't Derelict wear contacts? I know I've seen him wearing glasses on occasion.

[madpsych78]

I mean even Jill has occasionally worn glasses.

[emmawoodhouse]

4 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

I mean even Jill has occasionally worn glasses.

I'd forgotten that. Get that kid to an ophthalmologist. 

[iwantcookies]

11 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

I mean even Jill has occasionally worn glasses.

They are blue light glasses 

[Jenniferbug]

8 hours ago, BigBingerBro said:

Why is Israel always squinting?  It doesn't seem that sunny.  I hope he gets a routine eye exam.

I don't know about Arkansas, but where I live we had to take the kids to an eye doctor and have them complete a form to turn into the school before kindergarten. Also a physical with immunization records and a exam by a dentist. 

[GeeGolly]

14 minutes ago, Jenniferbug said:

I don't know about Arkansas, but where I live we had to take the kids to an eye doctor and have them complete a form to turn into the school before kindergarten. Also a physical with immunization records and a exam by a dentist. 

In our area we just had to show proof of required immunizations. The elementary schools did basic hearing and eye tests in 1st, 3rd and 5th grades. 

[laurakaye]

12 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Who the fuck opened that bag? 😂

Ha!  That's how I open my soil bags too - I try to rip it neatly open from the top but usually end up stabbing it with a trowel or whatever other garden tool I have handy.  Those %^&* bags are no joke.

I am both happy and sad at how these boys are going to be leaps and bounds above their cousins.  If they plant seeds and grow food that they end up eating at the dinner table, they will be so proud of themselves.

[GeeGolly]

5 hours ago, laurakaye said:

Ha!  That's how I open my soil bags too - I try to rip it neatly open from the top but usually end up stabbing it with a trowel or whatever other garden tool I have handy.  Those %^&* bags are no joke.

I am both happy and sad at how these boys are going to be leaps and bounds above their cousins.  If they plant seeds and grow food that they end up eating at the dinner table, they will be so proud of themselves.

I hope they used it all up because the bag is open on the top, the bottom and the side.

[emmawoodhouse]

Update on Fenna.

 

[Lady Whistleup]

10 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Update on Fenna.

 

Glad Fenna sleeps inside. Fenna is adorable and seems really gentle with kids. There's actually not much wrong I see with their treatment of Fenna. I'm pleasantly surprised. 

[emma675]

14 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Update on Fenna.

 

Aw, Fenna is adorable and it looks like they've done a good job integrating her into their family. And she's gotten so big! What a pretty girl. 

[auntieminem]

That was a nice update. They do really seem to be fond of her. Glad Derick's mom got a larger kennel for Fenna which will help with lots of indoor problems. They really seem to patient with her and are not getting too bent out of shape with her typical puppy destruction. She is a very smart girl so if they continue with positive training and problem solving she will be a great family member.  I could have used less Israel cam but he was so proud to be the cameraman it was sweet.

[BitterApple]

Fenna seems like a really sweet dog. That was cute when she gave the boys kisses through her kennel. 

[Lady Whistleup]

I'm going to play amateur psychologist here and say that Fenna's easy affection will be good for Izzy and Sam as affection isn't something that seems to come naturally to either Jill or Derick.

[emmawoodhouse]

58 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I'm going to play amateur psychologist here and say that Fenna's easy affection will be good for Izzy and Sam as affection isn't something that seems to come naturally to either Jill or Derick.

What? You don't count "Are you excited?" as affectionate? 😁

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I'm going to play amateur psychologist here and say that Fenna's easy affection will be good for Izzy and Sam as affection isn't something that seems to come naturally to either Jill or Derick.

Derick especially. His interactions with the boys always have an air of impatience. 

[iwantcookies]

10 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

What? You don't count "Are you excited?" as affectionate? 😁

You forgot...

Yay! Are you excited?

🤣

[madpsych78]

Actually, I think Jill seemed to show some natural affection with Fenna. Definitely more so than with Izzy or Sam (at least in the past). 

But Derick ITA. He comes off as more pragmatic as well as opposed to overly emotional. So I don't think affection towards another being comes as naturally to him. This is in contrast to Ben, who I do think tries to invoke some inflection when he interacts with his kids, but doesn't necessarily direct that at Jessa now (although I think he did in the past).

[emmawoodhouse]

Aw Fenna. What a sweetheart. ❤️

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNyDxS2gM_A/?igshid=yyxqkrgtywwp

[BigBingerBro]

[Normades]

So what is the obedience game?  

[SMama]

IIRC Jill explained it either on a TH or a book. For example, you tell the child to run and touch a wall and come back. Child must do it without asking why. If they ask why there are consequences. 
 
I also saw Gil doing it with one of the youngest two boys. But they were being filmed so I’m sure we got the mildest version. He took the boy in the beach house and sat him on the counter. He then asked the child to clap a number of times. The kid couldn’t ask why. The object is to get immediate obedience.

The little boy’s transgression was he cried because he believed it was his turn to sit in the kayak with Gil.

[BetyBee]

8 minutes ago, Normades said:

So what is the obedience game?  

Maybe he says "Yes, Ma'am" on command and gets a treat, like Fenna!

[crazy8s]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

IIRC Jill explained it either on a TH or a book. For example, you tell the child to run and touch a wall and come back. Child must do it without asking why. If they ask why there are consequences. 
 

It was explained on the show as well - I think by Jackson and Johanna. It was a "game" they played in the evening. A child was picked and told to do a random thing. Seems the one mentioned was run as fast as you can to the back door and tap the doorknob exactly 3 times. An accountability person/sibling went along with you to make sure chosen child did exactly as instructed and reported back

Edited April 19, 2021 by crazy8s

[rue721]

They laud unquestioning obedience as a virtue and then don't know who to blame when they're lured into a cult by some charismatic "authority figure" who tells them to do all sorts of self-destructive and plain-old-destructive things... which they again do with unquestioning obedience, to everyone's pain and shame.

When will these people learn that obedience is a dangerous, dangerous thing?

[madpsych78]

Yeah, this "unquestioning obedience" thing is hokum, as Sheldon Cooper would say.

What happens if someone masquerading as the devil asks you to do something that is potentially sinful, or not in line with what you've been taught before? Do you chuck unquestioning obedience out the window and defy the devil? Or do you practice unquestioning obedience and commit a sin?

What if someone does not have the language capability or attention span to comprehend a multiple-step direction?

What happens if the person giving the directive (i.e., a parent) changes their mind? 

And just what kind of consequences are we talking about here?

Look, I get not wanting a defiant child. But a defiant child to me is someone who may state a resounding "NO!" and may even look smug and bratty in the process when they are given a directive. I have HUGE issues with giving a child a consequence for asking "why!" Asking "why" is NOT a sign of defiance!

[crazy8s]

Jill states in Growing up Duggar:

Duggar kids grow up playing the Obedience Game. It’s sort of like Mother May I? except it has a few extra twists—and there’s no need to double-check with “Mother” because she (or Dad) is the one giving the orders. It’s one way Mom and Dad help the little kids in the family burn off extra energy some nights before we all put on our pajamas and gather for Bible time (more about that in chapter 8).

To play the Obedience Game, the little kids all gather in the living room. After listening carefully to Mom’s or Dad’s instructions, they respond with “Yes, ma’am, I’d be happy to!” then run and quickly accomplish the tasks. For example, Mom might say, “Jennifer, go upstairs to the girls’ room, touch the foot of your bed, then come back downstairs and give Mom a high-five.” Jennifer answers with an energetic “Yes, ma’am, I’d be happy to!” and off she goes. Dad might say, “Johannah, run around the kitchen table three times, then touch the front doorknob and come back.” As Johannah stands up she says, “Yes, sir, I’d be happy to!” “Jackson, go touch the front door, then touch the back door, then touch the side door, and then come back.” Jackson, who loves to play army, stands at attention, then salutes and replies, “Yes, sir, I’d be happy to!” as he goes to complete his assignment at lightning speed.

Sometimes spotters are sent along with the game player to make sure the directions are followed exactly. And of course, the faster the orders can be followed, the more applause the contestant gets when he or she slides back into the living room, out of breath and pleased with himself or herself for having complied flawlessly. All the younger Duggar kids love to play this game; it’s a way to make practicing obedience fun!

The four points of Obedience The Game's Rules (made up by our family) stem from our study of the four points of obedience, which Mom taught us when we were young. As a matter of fact, as we are writing this book she is currently teaching these points to our youngest siblings. Obedience must be:

Instant. We answer with an immediate, prompt “Yes ma’am!” or “Yes sir!” as we set out to obey. (This response is important to let the authority know you heard what he or she asked you to do and that you are going to get it done as soon as possible.) Delayed obedience is really disobedience.

Cheerful. No grumbling or complaining. Instead, we respond with a cheerful “I’d be happy to!”

Thorough. We do our best, complete the task as explained, and leave nothing out. No lazy shortcuts!

Unconditional. No excuses. No, “That’s not my job!” or “Can’t someone else do it? or “But . . .”

The hidden goal with this fun, fast-paced game is that kids won’t need to be told more than once to do something. Mom would explain the deeper reason behind why she and Daddy desired for us to learn obedience. “Mom and Daddy won’t always be with you, but God will,” she says. “As we teach you to hear and obey our voice now, our prayer is that ultimately you will learn to hear and obey what God’s tells you to do through His Word.”

In many families it seems that many of the goals of child training have been lost. Parents often expect their children to know what they should say and do, and then they’re shocked and react harshly when their sweet little two-year-old throws a tantrum in the middle of the grocery store. This parental attitude probably stems from the belief that we are all born basically good deep down inside, but the truth is, we are all born with a sin nature. Think about it: You don’t have to teach a child to hit, scream, whine, disobey, or be selfish. It comes naturally. The Bible says that parents are to “train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it” (Proverbs 22:6).

[QuinnInND]

10 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

Jill states in Growing up Duggar:

Duggar kids grow up playing the Obedience Game. It’s sort of like Mother May I? except it has a few extra twists—and there’s no need to double-check with “Mother” because she (or Dad) is the one giving the orders. It’s one way Mom and Dad help the little kids in the family burn off extra energy some nights before we all put on our pajamas and gather for Bible time (more about that in chapter 8).

To play the Obedience Game, the little kids all gather in the living room. After listening carefully to Mom’s or Dad’s instructions, they respond with “Yes, ma’am, I’d be happy to!” then run and quickly accomplish the tasks. For example, Mom might say, “Jennifer, go upstairs to the girls’ room, touch the foot of your bed, then come back downstairs and give Mom a high-five.” Jennifer answers with an energetic “Yes, ma’am, I’d be happy to!” and off she goes. Dad might say, “Johannah, run around the kitchen table three times, then touch the front doorknob and come back.” As Johannah stands up she says, “Yes, sir, I’d be happy to!” “Jackson, go touch the front door, then touch the back door, then touch the side door, and then come back.” Jackson, who loves to play army, stands at attention, then salutes and replies, “Yes, sir, I’d be happy to!” as he goes to complete his assignment at lightning speed.

Sometimes spotters are sent along with the game player to make sure the directions are followed exactly. And of course, the faster the orders can be followed, the more applause the contestant gets when he or she slides back into the living room, out of breath and pleased with himself or herself for having complied flawlessly. All the younger Duggar kids love to play this game; it’s a way to make practicing obedience fun!

The four points of Obedience The Game's Rules (made up by our family) stem from our study of the four points of obedience, which Mom taught us when we were young. As a matter of fact, as we are writing this book she is currently teaching these points to our youngest siblings. Obedience must be:

Instant. We answer with an immediate, prompt “Yes ma’am!” or “Yes sir!” as we set out to obey. (This response is important to let the authority know you heard what he or she asked you to do and that you are going to get it done as soon as possible.) Delayed obedience is really disobedience.

Cheerful. No grumbling or complaining. Instead, we respond with a cheerful “I’d be happy to!”

Thorough. We do our best, complete the task as explained, and leave nothing out. No lazy shortcuts!

Unconditional. No excuses. No, “That’s not my job!” or “Can’t someone else do it? or “But . . .”

The hidden goal with this fun, fast-paced game is that kids won’t need to be told more than once to do something. Mom would explain the deeper reason behind why she and Daddy desired for us to learn obedience. “Mom and Daddy won’t always be with you, but God will,” she says. “As we teach you to hear and obey our voice now, our prayer is that ultimately you will learn to hear and obey what God’s tells you to do through His Word.”

In many families it seems that many of the goals of child training have been lost. Parents often expect their children to know what they should say and do, and then they’re shocked and react harshly when their sweet little two-year-old throws a tantrum in the middle of the grocery store. This parental attitude probably stems from the belief that we are all born basically good deep down inside, but the truth is, we are all born with a sin nature. Think about it: You don’t have to teach a child to hit, scream, whine, disobey, or be selfish. It comes naturally. The Bible says that parents are to “train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it” (Proverbs 22:6).

Good grief. What a steaming pile of shit. 

[Quof]

12 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

help the little kids in the family burn off extra energy some nights before we all put on our pajamas

But they didn't wear pajamas....

[BOOgen3]

The Duggars and their ilk are fucked in the head.  An animal is trained. A child is raised and nurtured. Everything about their twisted “obedience game” makes me ever so ragey.

[Tikichick]

12 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

Jill states in Growing up Duggar:

Duggar kids grow up playing the Obedience Game. It’s sort of like Mother May I? except it has a few extra twists—and there’s no need to double-check with “Mother” because she (or Dad) is the one giving the orders. It’s one way Mom and Dad help the little kids in the family burn off extra energy some nights before we all put on our pajamas and gather for Bible time (more about that in chapter 8).

To play the Obedience Game, the little kids all gather in the living room. After listening carefully to Mom’s or Dad’s instructions, they respond with “Yes, ma’am, I’d be happy to!” then run and quickly accomplish the tasks. For example, Mom might say, “Jennifer, go upstairs to the girls’ room, touch the foot of your bed, then come back downstairs and give Mom a high-five.” Jennifer answers with an energetic “Yes, ma’am, I’d be happy to!” and off she goes. Dad might say, “Johannah, run around the kitchen table three times, then touch the front doorknob and come back.” As Johannah stands up she says, “Yes, sir, I’d be happy to!” “Jackson, go touch the front door, then touch the back door, then touch the side door, and then come back.” Jackson, who loves to play army, stands at attention, then salutes and replies, “Yes, sir, I’d be happy to!” as he goes to complete his assignment at lightning speed.

Sometimes spotters are sent along with the game player to make sure the directions are followed exactly. And of course, the faster the orders can be followed, the more applause the contestant gets when he or she slides back into the living room, out of breath and pleased with himself or herself for having complied flawlessly. All the younger Duggar kids love to play this game; it’s a way to make practicing obedience fun!

The four points of Obedience The Game's Rules (made up by our family) stem from our study of the four points of obedience, which Mom taught us when we were young. As a matter of fact, as we are writing this book she is currently teaching these points to our youngest siblings. Obedience must be:

Instant. We answer with an immediate, prompt “Yes ma’am!” or “Yes sir!” as we set out to obey. (This response is important to let the authority know you heard what he or she asked you to do and that you are going to get it done as soon as possible.) Delayed obedience is really disobedience.

Cheerful. No grumbling or complaining. Instead, we respond with a cheerful “I’d be happy to!”

Thorough. We do our best, complete the task as explained, and leave nothing out. No lazy shortcuts!

Unconditional. No excuses. No, “That’s not my job!” or “Can’t someone else do it? or “But . . .”

The hidden goal with this fun, fast-paced game is that kids won’t need to be told more than once to do something. Mom would explain the deeper reason behind why she and Daddy desired for us to learn obedience. “Mom and Daddy won’t always be with you, but God will,” she says. “As we teach you to hear and obey our voice now, our prayer is that ultimately you will learn to hear and obey what God’s tells you to do through His Word.”

In many families it seems that many of the goals of child training have been lost. Parents often expect their children to know what they should say and do, and then they’re shocked and react harshly when their sweet little two-year-old throws a tantrum in the middle of the grocery store. This parental attitude probably stems from the belief that we are all born basically good deep down inside, but the truth is, we are all born with a sin nature. Think about it: You don’t have to teach a child to hit, scream, whine, disobey, or be selfish. It comes naturally. The Bible says that parents are to “train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it” (Proverbs 22:6).

This from the family of Duggar Time, diaper mountain, eating food directly out of cans, etc.?    Clearly this method instilled disciplined behaviors and lifestyles. 

[ginger90]

Any game that takes that long to explain would be a big no, for me.

[Suzn]

21 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

Jill states in Growing up Duggar:

Duggar kids grow up playing the Obedience Game. It’s sort of like Mother May I? except it has a few extra twists—and there’s no need to double-check with “Mother” because she (or Dad) is the one giving the orders. It’s one way Mom and Dad help the little kids in the family burn off extra energy some nights before we all put on our pajamas and gather for Bible time (more about that in chapter 8).

To play the Obedience Game, the little kids all gather in the living room. After listening carefully to Mom’s or Dad’s instructions, they respond with “Yes, ma’am, I’d be happy to!” then run and quickly accomplish the tasks. For example, Mom might say, “Jennifer, go upstairs to the girls’ room, touch the foot of your bed, then come back downstairs and give Mom a high-five.” Jennifer answers with an energetic “Yes, ma’am, I’d be happy to!” and off she goes. Dad might say, “Johannah, run around the kitchen table three times, then touch the front doorknob and come back.” As Johannah stands up she says, “Yes, sir, I’d be happy to!” “Jackson, go touch the front door, then touch the back door, then touch the side door, and then come back.” Jackson, who loves to play army, stands at attention, then salutes and replies, “Yes, sir, I’d be happy to!” as he goes to complete his assignment at lightning speed.

Sometimes spotters are sent along with the game player to make sure the directions are followed exactly. And of course, the faster the orders can be followed, the more applause the contestant gets when he or she slides back into the living room, out of breath and pleased with himself or herself for having complied flawlessly. All the younger Duggar kids love to play this game; it’s a way to make practicing obedience fun!

The four points of Obedience The Game's Rules (made up by our family) stem from our study of the four points of obedience, which Mom taught us when we were young. As a matter of fact, as we are writing this book she is currently teaching these points to our youngest siblings. Obedience must be:

Instant. We answer with an immediate, prompt “Yes ma’am!” or “Yes sir!” as we set out to obey. (This response is important to let the authority know you heard what he or she asked you to do and that you are going to get it done as soon as possible.) Delayed obedience is really disobedience.

Cheerful. No grumbling or complaining. Instead, we respond with a cheerful “I’d be happy to!”

Thorough. We do our best, complete the task as explained, and leave nothing out. No lazy shortcuts!

Unconditional. No excuses. No, “That’s not my job!” or “Can’t someone else do it? or “But . . .”

The hidden goal with this fun, fast-paced game is that kids won’t need to be told more than once to do something. Mom would explain the deeper reason behind why she and Daddy desired for us to learn obedience. “Mom and Daddy won’t always be with you, but God will,” she says. “As we teach you to hear and obey our voice now, our prayer is that ultimately you will learn to hear and obey what God’s tells you to do through His Word.”

In many families it seems that many of the goals of child training have been lost. Parents often expect their children to know what they should say and do, and then they’re shocked and react harshly when their sweet little two-year-old throws a tantrum in the middle of the grocery store. This parental attitude probably stems from the belief that we are all born basically good deep down inside, but the truth is, we are all born with a sin nature. Think about it: You don’t have to teach a child to hit, scream, whine, disobey, or be selfish. It comes naturally. The Bible says that parents are to “train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it” (Proverbs 22:6).

"This parental attitude probably stems from the belief that we are all born basically good deep down inside, but the truth is, we are all born with a sin nature...You don’t have to teach a child to hit, scream, whine, disobey, or be selfish. It comes naturally. "

This is unspeakably warped.  No you don't have to teach children to hit, scream or whine, but you don't need to teach them to be curious, affectionate or show empathy either.  However the good things can be "trained" out of them too.

There are a few times and places that call for unquestioning obedience, very few, the military for example, but even then, there are provisions for individual judgement overriding orders. 

The Duggars wanted robotic children who ask no questions and are unable to think for themselves, so one result is Jessa who can't cook, clean or take proper care of her children, but she is apparently raising her own robots.  Then there is Jill who is given so much credit for breaking away from the Duggar way, who it appears is also raising robots.  So sickening.

[cmr2014]

22 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

Jill states in Growing up Duggar:

Duggar kids grow up playing the Obedience Game. It’s sort of like Mother May I? except it has a few extra twists—and there’s no need to double-check with “Mother” because she (or Dad) is the one giving the orders. It’s one way Mom and Dad help the little kids in the family burn off extra energy some nights before we all put on our pajamas and gather for Bible time (more about that in chapter 8).

To play the Obedience Game, the little kids all gather in the living room. After listening carefully to Mom’s or Dad’s instructions, they respond with “Yes, ma’am, I’d be happy to!” then run and quickly accomplish the tasks. For example, Mom might say, “Jennifer, go upstairs to the girls’ room, touch the foot of your bed, then come back downstairs and give Mom a high-five.” Jennifer answers with an energetic “Yes, ma’am, I’d be happy to!” and off she goes. Dad might say, “Johannah, run around the kitchen table three times, then touch the front doorknob and come back.” As Johannah stands up she says, “Yes, sir, I’d be happy to!” “Jackson, go touch the front door, then touch the back door, then touch the side door, and then come back.” Jackson, who loves to play army, stands at attention, then salutes and replies, “Yes, sir, I’d be happy to!” as he goes to complete his assignment at lightning speed.

Sometimes spotters are sent along with the game player to make sure the directions are followed exactly. And of course, the faster the orders can be followed, the more applause the contestant gets when he or she slides back into the living room, out of breath and pleased with himself or herself for having complied flawlessly. All the younger Duggar kids love to play this game; it’s a way to make practicing obedience fun!

The four points of Obedience The Game's Rules (made up by our family) stem from our study of the four points of obedience, which Mom taught us when we were young. As a matter of fact, as we are writing this book she is currently teaching these points to our youngest siblings. Obedience must be:

Instant. We answer with an immediate, prompt “Yes ma’am!” or “Yes sir!” as we set out to obey. (This response is important to let the authority know you heard what he or she asked you to do and that you are going to get it done as soon as possible.) Delayed obedience is really disobedience.

Cheerful. No grumbling or complaining. Instead, we respond with a cheerful “I’d be happy to!”

Thorough. We do our best, complete the task as explained, and leave nothing out. No lazy shortcuts!

Unconditional. No excuses. No, “That’s not my job!” or “Can’t someone else do it? or “But . . .”

The hidden goal with this fun, fast-paced game is that kids won’t need to be told more than once to do something. Mom would explain the deeper reason behind why she and Daddy desired for us to learn obedience. “Mom and Daddy won’t always be with you, but God will,” she says. “As we teach you to hear and obey our voice now, our prayer is that ultimately you will learn to hear and obey what God’s tells you to do through His Word.”

In many families it seems that many of the goals of child training have been lost. Parents often expect their children to know what they should say and do, and then they’re shocked and react harshly when their sweet little two-year-old throws a tantrum in the middle of the grocery store. This parental attitude probably stems from the belief that we are all born basically good deep down inside, but the truth is, we are all born with a sin nature. Think about it: You don’t have to teach a child to hit, scream, whine, disobey, or be selfish. It comes naturally. The Bible says that parents are to “train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it” (Proverbs 22:6).

I think others have pointed out that Jill and her sisters wrote none of this and it was all ghost written by TFDW. This is nothing but a Wisdom Booklet transcribed into another publication.

Jill doesn't "think" this. She doesn't "think" about child rearing, or anything else, because she was taught to "obey" not to "think."

The Duggars are all lab rats who demonstrate the flaws in Gothard's child "training" system. They may all instantly obey when they are watched, but they must be monitored at all times because they'll stop obeying the instant the monitors walk away (see Duggar, Josh). They have no ingrained moral compass, no understanding of why they should follow rules (other than the threat of "consequences"), no ability to self-regulate, no self-discipline, etc. 

[doodlebug]

22 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I think others have pointed out that Jill and her sisters wrote none of this and it was all ghost written by TFDW. This is nothing but a Wisdom Booklet transcribed into another publication.

Jill doesn't "think" this. She doesn't "think" about child rearing, or anything else, because she was taught to "obey" not to "think."

The Duggars are all lab rats who demonstrate the flaws in Gothard's child "training" system. They may all instantly obey when they are watched, but they must be monitored at all times because they'll stop obeying the instant the monitors walk away (see Duggar, Josh). They have no ingrained moral compass, no understanding of why they should follow rules (other than the threat of "consequences"), no ability to self-regulate, no self-discipline, etc. 

So, Jill punished a preschooler because he didn't say, 'yes, ma'am' fast enough when she told him to do something?  He didn't refuse, he didn't even ask why; he just didn't respond as quickly as she wanted. This kind of thinking is just a natural extension of the Pearl's rules on blanket training infants.

And, no, Jill, little kids are not sinful by nature.  Not at all.  And not replying to your request quickly enough is not a sin anyway.

[Tikichick]

Wondering if this post wasn't Jill communicating with her parents, seeking their approval, demonstrating that she is bringing her children up "properly"?

I hope Derick takes a good hard look at this, thinks about it deeply -- and tells his wife that in this instance he knows better when it comes to the children and not to fuck them up with this horrible head game!

[Nysha]

Since I used a version of this with my kids, I'm going to defend Jill. My children were required to say "Yes, mom/dad" when they were told to do something and then go do it without arguing while being "quick and right the first time". If a kid started arguing, he/she would be told "What do you say?", and they'd reply "Yes, mom" and stomp off to obey. About every 3-4 months I'd realize the kids were arguing and ignoring me, so they'd get to practice saying "Yes, mom" to goofy orders.

The counter to this is I tried very hard to give them options for almost everything and to not give orders. So I'd say "J, the table needs to be set and it's your job this week." instead of "J, set the table." Or "Great, it's snowing again. Sure glad we all have snow boots" and let them decided if they wanted to wear theirs or deal with cold feet.

So, I don't think it's a bad thing for kids to be expected to do what they're told or that Jill is being a bad mom for making Israel and Sam practice obedience after a bad morning.

[Tikichick]

2 minutes ago, Nysha said:

Since I used a version of this with my kids, I'm going to defend Jill. My children were required to say "Yes, mom/dad" when they were told to do something and then go do it without arguing while being "quick and right the first time". If a kid started arguing, he/she would be told "What do you say?", and they'd reply "Yes, mom" and stomp off to obey. About every 3-4 months I'd realize the kids were arguing and ignoring me, so they'd get to practice saying "Yes, mom" to goofy orders.

The counter to this is I tried very hard to give them options for almost everything and to not give orders. So I'd say "J, the table needs to be set and it's your job this week." instead of "J, set the table." Or "Great, it's snowing again. Sure glad we all have snow boots" and let them decided if they wanted to wear theirs or deal with cold feet.

So, I don't think it's a bad thing for kids to be expected to do what they're told or that Jill is being a bad mom for making Israel and Sam practice obedience after a bad morning.

There is definitely merit in teaching your children not to mouth off and understanding how to comply with the rules of the household, which includes promptly attending to assigned chores.

Where the problem comes in is the concept being proudly displayed on social media by a parent who was raised n a repressive, child slave labor camp, where children were deprived of education and outside social interaction;, spent much of their days tending to many other children, family members and a large home; suffered abuse they were led to believe they instigated and bore responsibility for; and were brainwashed with this "game" every night!

Even if Jill didn't write the book, she surely knows what was attributed to have come from her in those pages.   It's to be expected she would internalize those values.  Hopefully Jill's post triggers some SM engagement with Derick that causes him to exercise some reason and recognize this is a "kid issue" he should not leave up to Jill's judgment.

 

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Tikichick said:

There is definitely merit in teaching your children not to mouth off and understanding how to comply with the rules of the household, which includes promptly attending to assigned chores.

Where the problem comes in is the concept being proudly displayed on social media by a parent who was raised n a repressive, child slave labor camp, where children were deprived of education and outside social interaction;, spent much of their days tending to many other children, family members and a large home; suffered abuse they were led to believe they instigated and bore responsibility for; and were brainwashed with this "game" every night!

Even if Jill didn't write the book, she surely knows what was attributed to have come from her in those pages.   It's to be expected she would internalize those values.  Hopefully Jill's post triggers some SM engagement with Derick that causes him to exercise some reason and recognize this is a "kid issue" he should not leave up to Jill's judgment.

 

Derick was okay with wrapping a one year old like a burrito (more than once), why would he not be okay with this?

[JoanArc]

I hope the therapist bring this up. Its reverting back to a shitty pattern.

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, JoanArc said:

I hope the therapist bring this up. Its reverting back to a shitty pattern.

Makes me feel like an addict who's twitchy because they're feeling the urge for a taste.

Can't help but think that Jill just saw her family at two weddings, and apparently was hanging out with Jessa.   Nobody knows how to push buttons like family.   A backslide wouldn't shock me.  No doubt it feels comforting to her.

[GeeGolly]

I didn't expect obedience from my children, however I would not tolerate disrespect. They could 'argue' with me if the issue wasn't a matter of safety. They could grumble while they did what I asked them to do too, if they felt grumbly about my request.

We had only a few 'unbreakable' rules in our house. Rules that revolved around respect and safety. Almost everything else was up for negotiation.

I find it sad that Derick and Jill are requiring their kids to respond without thinking.

I also don't see this as a Dillard regression. Nothing gives me any indication they haven't been doing this all along.

[Tikichick]

6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Derick was okay with wrapping a one year old like a burrito (more than once), why would he not be okay with this?

Precisely why my hopes included SM engaging Derick.   He is admittedly clueless when it comes to small children issues.   If he gets poked on SM and actually puts some rational thought into it there is at least a chance he may recognize the danger to his sons.   He so freely admits to being over his head with kid stuff I can see him not understanding the difference if he heard an infant may be comforted by being snugly swaddled (I had one of those) and a one year old finding it uncomfortably confining.   

He has some horrible beliefs, but I don't know that we can diagnose him as some sort of sociopath maliciously enjoying tormenting his children. 

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Tikichick said:

Precisely why my hopes included SM engaging Derick.   He is admittedly clueless when it comes to small children issues.   If he gets poked on SM and actually puts some rational thought into it there is at least a chance he may recognize the danger to his sons.   He so freely admits to being over his head with kid stuff I can see him not understanding the difference if he heard an infant may be comforted by being snugly swaddled (I had one of those) and a one year old finding it uncomfortably confining.   

He has some horrible beliefs, but I don't know that we can diagnose him as some sort of sociopath maliciously enjoying tormenting his children. 

Oh they got beat up when they posted the pics of Izzy. And the pictures were not of an infant being swaddled for comfort. And he wasn't an infant. In one of the pictures he was fully dressed, I believe even in shoes, in the middle of a bed and clearly in distress.

I never said Derick enjoyed punishing his children. And you'll never see a post from me diagnosing anyone of these players as a sociopath. I'm fairly certain, other than JillR, I've never even hinted at a diagnosis any of the Duggar and their ilk.

 

[cmr2014]

12 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Derick was okay with wrapping a one year old like a burrito (more than once), why would he not be okay with this?

I do think that early on in their marriage, Jill had more control over this since she came from a "perfect" family and had learned "everything" about raising children from MOTY.

I agree with you, though, that there's no reason to believe that the Dillard's have ever used anything but the most regressive child rearing techniques.

One thing that Jill has done better on though, is editing her social media. There is less of the endless tongue bathing about the amazing food that MOTY served (with fresh bread and a big green salad!), and of Jill "educating" her audience about child rearing techniques. While there is nothing inherently wrong with providing structure and clear boundaries for children, it's really disturbing to hear her using Gothardisms and trotting out MOTY child-rearing maxims.

Jill could really benefit from reading some books on early childhood development and exploring some other child rearing philosophies. I think it would be extremely difficult for her, though, to even think about the idea that MOTY wasn't a perfect parent.

[Tikichick]

51 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Oh they got beat up when they posted the pics of Izzy. And the pictures were not of an infant being swaddled for comfort. And he wasn't an infant. In one of the pictures he was fully dressed, I believe even in shoes, in the middle of a bed and clearly in distress.

I never said Derick enjoyed punishing his children. And you'll never see a post from me diagnosing anyone of these players as a sociopath. I'm fairly certain, other than JillR, I've never even hinted at a diagnosis any of the Duggar and their ilk.

 

I didn't say the pictures were of an infant.  I said I can understand Derick not understanding there's a difference between an infant potentially finding swaddling comforting and a one year old finding it uncomfortably confining if he had heard that babies like being swaddled and it quiets and soothes them.   I think he needs a lot of kid issues explained to him like he's five, especially  if you want him to pick up on subtleties or nuance -- even if to a lot of adults the difference between infant and one year old is rather obvious.   

My point is he's pretty clueless about at least young child development.   It does seem he feels more comfortable participating with a child who can converse and engage in some reasoning.  Although he clearly struggles with the concept of appropriate expectations of a child's reasoning and understanding in relation to their age.     

Tensions in their household have clearly lowered from what they were a few years ago.   If nothing else the boys' demeanor bears that out.  There are probably a lot of things that have contributed to the shift, but I suspect a piece is related to Israel growing and attaining the ability to understand more, making it possible for communication to improve between Israel and Derick.   On that front I suspect it's entirely or mostly about Israel being able to rise up and understand more, rather than Derick gaining insight into the boys or children in general.   Even though Sam is still younger and less capable, it's likely Israel helps bridge that gap by essentially translating between dad and Sam and smoothing those waters too.   

Derick seems like he prefers operating on an information and knowledge basis about most things, pretty black and white.   I think if he had more knowledge just from an academic standpoint he might do a bit better job relating to the boys and children in general.   If Jill dug her heels in to a backlash of pictures of Izzy in distress, Derick might have accepted Jill knew what she was talking about and assumed SM was just stirring a pot.   I do think that as the boys get older and able to communicate more and more there may be less opportunities for Derick to be mislead by Jill insisting this is how X works with kids.    I don't think Derick was raised with the methods Jill grew up with, so I do think he may seek input sometimes from his own mom, the boys may be able to express their positions better over time and Derick just might possibly catch a clue on a few things.   In this case it would be nice if SM could present some logic on this stupid obedience game that would catch the attention of the part of Derick's brain that makes him recall being a kid that age.   Derick seems to really engage with his kids when he feels moved by things that left a big impression on him as a child.   I will take any sliver of light and hope that helps any of these kids avoid a Duggar-type upbringing.  I am more thankful than I can say that the Dillard kids seem likely to get the opportunity for a real education at least.   Hopefully at least one of them develops the instincts and the skill to advocate for themselves, the more articulately the better in order that they may convince their dad where necessary. 

[SMama]

Let’s not forget Cathy proudly posing with a wooden paddle and her sons proudly showing their matching shirts. Shirts celebrating they were disciplined with a wooden paddle.