Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[QuinnInND]

We adopted our doxies about a 4 months after we moved to North Dakota. One couple we knew were PCSing to Guam, and didn't want to take the dogs with them. Don't get me started. Anyway, I had never had dogs before. My husband did, however. Steep learning curve for me. They were only about 6 months old, and a handful. But we made a commitment to them to keep them forever. So we learned and adapted. Dogs aren't clothes you can take back because they don't fit like you thought they would. Stupid Duggars. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by QuinnInND
Because out and our are two different words

[awaken]

6 hours ago, leighdear said:

This situation will not end well for the dog.  

Like jeremy’s cat 🙁

[GeeGolly]

The Dillards just undid all their work repairing Derick's reputation and showing the world they're 'not Duggar'. And horribly, it came at an innocent puppy's expense.

[MargeGunderson]

@Growsonwalls, there’s no comparison between your experience and the Dillards. You had to make an on the spot decision to rescue the cat, so of course you weren’t prepared. The Dillards either decided to adopt on a whim one day and went right out and did it, or they decided to do it and neither prepared or researched what they were getting into. Agree that the emotional commitment may be the missing piece.

[Oldernowiser]

Well, Derrick isn’t stupid. And he is a runner. If he applies himself to understanding the dog’s needs and takes her running with him, it could work out. The problem is more likely to be Jill being home with her all day...Jill seems pretty easily overwhelmed.

Maybe it’ll work out?

[BitterApple]

3 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

 

Maybe it’ll work out?

I'm 50/50. The Dillards seem to be doing some things right (signing up for training, getting the dog established with a vet, taking her out for walks), but also a lot of things wrong. Since they're basically first-time owners I don't expect them to be perfect, but Jill seemed like she was getting stressed. 

I also want to add, people often think they want a high-energy dog, but don't really have a concept of what that means. If the Dillards' version of high-energy is a dog that plays with the boys for an hour then chills out in the yard for the rest of the day, then yeah, it's probably not going to work.

[Oldernowiser]

Okay, I just realized why I am so perturbed about this...as in, emotionally perturbed. When I first worked at the shelter there was a lab/shepherd mix named Sophie, who looked a lot like Fenna. She was there for months, because she was a big, strong girl who didn’t like cats or other dogs.

What she LOVED was being trained. I used to sneak away with her once a shift and work with her... I never knew a more trainable dog. She was super smart, but still young, and she wasn’t at all reliable off leash especially when she was chasing something. She was so affectionate, too...

So this nice young couple comes in...love at first sight, at last. I told them six times she couldn’t be trusted off leash. At least. Off she went...happy endings, right?

A month later she was dead. Hit by a car because they had her in a field off leash and she chased a squirrel into the main road. That dog was killed by youthful arrogance. Broke my damned heart plus I was FURIOUS.

So... I am not very objective about this Fenna situation, for sure.

[cmr2014]

2 hours ago, Madtown said:

So they put a blanket on the concrete pad and that's where she was when they got back from church. Jill said it was much warmer, in the 40's. Don't think I'd be leaving my dog out in 40 degree weather. I don't think they can trust her inside when they aren't home. Jill tied her leash to a chair while she got dressed and Fenna chewed through it. She also chewed their cherry tree in half and Jill was not happy. Also dug under their fence. From what I gather, Fenna will be sleeping outside in her dog house. If they plan to keep her outside all the time, I feel bad for the neighbors because I don't doubt that she'll bark a lot out there.

If they still have this dog at the end of the month, I'd be surprised. She is starting obedience school and they were excited about that. I think anyone who wants to get a dog should really research which kind they want first and what it takes to train a dog when you first bring them home. They are a lot of work and it takes time. I think they are better off with either a smaller dog or no dog at all.

It was a bad sign when it was a "surprise" that they came home with a dog. They have little/no experience with dogs, and made a choice based on -- what? Derick liked how the dog looked?

I disagree about a smaller dog. Lots of people think that smaller dogs are better with small kids, but the opposite is true. Large dogs are usually gentle with kids while small dogs can find them threatening. They probably would have been better off with an adult lab, or something similar, but I agree that "no dog" is probably the best option for them. Dogs are a lot of work, and puppies are even more work. I've known a few people who didn't have dogs growing up, and got one as an adult. They were a little overwhelmed at first, but all became huge dog people (I know these people from the dog park, so that may make them a  non-representative sample). It's possible that either Jill or Derick could become an invested dog-owner, but their history suggests that that's unlikely.

Also, didn't they say that they had a crate? If they have a crate, that's where the dog should be while they're at church. The dog should be inside (in a place that smells like her new family -- maybe Izzy's room) in her crate. The idea that dogs like being left alone outside to frolic and play is just not true -- that may be counter-intuitive, but if they'd spent a couple of hours reading a book before getting a dog, they'd be off to a better start.

Edited March 5, 2021 by cmr2014
one more thing

[Growsonwalls]

The crazy thing is Fenna does not seem that difficult. It sounds like they didn't take her out to do her business enough during the daytime so of course she woke up at night. That's actually a GOOD THING that the dog communicates that she needs to do her business. Fenna doesn't seem aggressive and she seems good with kids. This is not a difficult dog, even for newbies. You just need to make an emotional commitment to train her. 

[GeeGolly]

Jill & Derick seem to me to be the kind of folks who give up at the slightest struggle. If things don't stick to their predetermined script, they quit. Usually God is calling them in a different direction at just the 'right' time.

While I understand Derick has it in him to work hard and stay in school, school is predictable for Derick.

If they keep Fenna, I hope they step up their game, and step it up quick. Or maybe God will tell them they're fish people.

And like I mentioned before, outdoor dogs aren't a thing around here. Leaving dogs in the yard while no one is home hardly happens either. Is that the norm for most folks?

Edited March 5, 2021 by GeeGolly

[Slakkie]

35 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I'm 50/50. The Dillards seem to be doing some things right (signing up for training, getting the dog established with a vet, taking her out for walks), but also a lot of things wrong. Since they're basically first-time owners I don't expect them to be perfect, but Jill seemed like she was getting stressed. 

I also want to add, people often think they want a high-energy dog, but don't really have a concept of what that means. If the Dillards' version of high-energy is a dog that plays with the boys for an hour then chills out in the yard for the rest of the day, then yeah, it's probably not going to work.

I show dogs and occasionally have a litter (when I need something to show) and I also work with our breed rescue.  When someone comes to my house saying they want a high energy dog I introduce them to my low energy Aussie and they usually say oh YES this is perfect.  Then I tell them this is a LOW energy Aussie and pull out one of my girls who will play ball until your arm falls off.  They usually realize what they think is high energy - high drive in reality is a normal dog..

The problem is  people look at dogs like toasters not as unique - the first thing they do is look at the dog suit and sadly the shelters are not really set up to match pets and owners

[Nysha]

3 hours ago, ginger90 said:

You’d think so but I can assure you, some dogs may not think so. 

On the other hand, every cat in the county is rolling their eyes at the size of the bed. If it's not king-sized and coved with mink fur, they don't want it. Unless, of course, the dog was just going to sleep there.🙂

[Slakkie]

15 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Jill & Derick seem to me to be the kind of folks who give up at the slightest struggle. If things stick to their predetermined script, they quit. Usually God is calling them in a different direction at just the 'right' time.

While I understand Derick has it in him to work hard and stay in school, school is predictable for Derick.

If they keep Fenna, I hope they step up their game, and step it up quick. Or maybe God will tell them they're fish people.

And like I mentioned before, outdoor dogs aren't a thing around here. Leaving dogs in the yard while no one is home hardly happens either. Is that the norm for most folks?

40 degrees is not horrible for a dog to be outside assuming it is not storming / raining / wet etc and a short period of time.  They need to buy a crate and crate train the dog though

Edited March 5, 2021 by Slakkie
added context

[JoanArc]

Quote

Anyone who wraps a one year old in a blanket as punishment for acting like a one year old, should not have a pet (or children). Anyone who thinks their 2 year old needs a younger sibling so they'll know the world doesn't revolve around them, should not have a pet (or children). Anyone who can show such hate to a teenager who doesn't live by their standards, should not have a pet (or children).

 Anyone who thinks their relationship is the model for everyone to follow, even though they were miserable for about 90% of it so far. Anyone who gives up at the slightest amount of real work – that’s both of them. 

 

I’m so glad those boys are at least getting some kind of a break by going to school and getting the hell out of that house for a while. I hope you have a types to get buried in all kinds of extracurricular activities that expose them to other families and hopefully they have a lot of sleepovers as they get friends. Sleepovers at their friends house I mean.

[cmr2014]

1 minute ago, Slakkie said:

I show dogs and occasionally have a litter (when I need something to show) and I also work with our breed rescue.  When someone comes to my house saying they want a high energy dog I introduce them to my low energy Aussie and they usually say oh YES this is perfect.  Then I tell them this is a LOW energy Aussie and pull out one of my girls who will play ball until your arm falls off.  They usually realize what they think is high energy - high drive in reality is a normal dog..

The problem is  people look at dogs like toasters not as unique - the first thing they do is look at the dog suit and sadly the shelters are not really set up to match pets and owners

I have mixed feelings about shelters for this reason. The culture around shelters leads people to believe that they can choose a dog (with no planning, research, etc.) and keep it for a while, and if "it doesn't work out" they can just drop it off - no harm no foul. To me, it is a big deal, and people should be expected to make an informed decision, and put in the work, or they should just leave the dog alone.

[Slakkie]

1 minute ago, cmr2014 said:

I have mixed feelings about shelters for this reason. The culture around shelters leads people to believe that they can choose a dog (with no planning, research, etc.) and keep it for a while, and if "it doesn't work out" they can just drop it off - no harm no foul. To me, it is a big deal, and people should be expected to make an informed decision, and put in the work, or they should just leave the dog alone.

And why I do breed rescue - so that I can ensure herding breed dogs get OUT of shelters and into breed specific rescues so the owners can be screened.  People see Aussies and love all the hair and bounce - they are not for all people.  Jill and Derek IMHO should not get a herding breed dog with the little kids.  I would have recommended another breed.  If this dog is really part Mal - that is not a good match.

 

They don't call them Maligators for nothing (and I LOVE the breed but they need a TON of training)

[ginger90]

I think they tried too many different things with the dog in a short period of time. The dog started out in the living room, then Derick and Jill’s room, then the “napping room”, and then outside. It was too much IMO.

 

ETA: when I said something earlier about the size of the dog bed not mattering to some dogs, see these knuckleheads below, who slept all night like this a while ago:

Edited March 5, 2021 by ginger90

[FizzyPuff]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Or maybe God will tell them they're fish people.

I was laughing my head off at this comment 😂

[CalicoKitty]

The shelters I am familiar with seem to do a good job of screening and interviewing prospective adopters.  I have known people who had to have a home inspection before being allowed to adopt a dog.  Sadly, I don't think this is common practice with most shelters. And people do think they can just "turn them in" when it doesn't work out.  My niece and her ex were the same way, only with expensive pure bred dogs.  The would go on line, and buy an expensive dog, and then rehome it after a year because the dog was too much trouble.  Not once, not twice, but four times.  It really made me angry.  I'll stick to my cats.  I know my limits.

[CalicoKitty]

And--fish take a lot of work and expense.  That is not a hobby for the feint of heart.  This would not be good for the Dillards.

[Quilt Fairy]

They should have gotten one of the terriers in the next cage.  Maybe Derrick picked that dog to be a running companion?  Although I haven't seen him running much since he started law school.

1 hour ago, cmr2014 said:

The culture around shelters leads people to believe that they can choose a dog (with no planning, research, etc.) and keep it for a while, and if "it doesn't work out" they can just drop it off - no harm no foul.

But people do do this, and it's more responsible to take it back to the shelter and say you made a mistake.  I mean, people get divorces, too, even if they promised "to death us do part" in the church. 

It's funny, shelters around here (Chicago suburbs) do so much screening that people complain that dogs that could have perfectly good homes stay in the shelter too long because the shelter is trying to place them in a "perfect" home.  I don't think any local shelter here would let someone walk in and adopt  a puppy on the first visit.

[NotthebadVictoria]

Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with Jill letting the dog stay outside, if she’d kept it in a kennel she’d be crucified too 😂. I have small dogs and they love being outside all day. I still have faith in Jill, she’s trying. 

[cmr2014]

10 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

They should have gotten one of the terriers in the next cage.  Maybe Derrick picked that dog to be a running companion?  Although I haven't seen him running much since he started law school.

But people do do this, and it's more responsible to take it back to the shelter and say you made a mistake.  I mean, people get divorces, too, even if they promised "to death us do part" in the church. 

It's funny, shelters around here (Chicago suburbs) do so much screening that people complain that dogs that could have perfectly good homes stay in the shelter too long because the shelter is trying to place them in a "perfect" home.  I don't think any local shelter here would let someone walk in and adopt  a puppy on the first visit.

I don't disagree with you, but getting the dog in the first place should be a serious commitment. If it doesn't work out, then it's great that the shelter can take the dog back and get it re-homed, but that would happen a lot less if people made some effort before going to the shelter. Shelters have had to put these rules and screening processes in place because people are so cavalier about the process in the first place.

The shelter thing is my own, personal hobby-horse, and I'll let it go. I hope that Jill and Derick are buying books on dog training right now, and that the dog is inside for the night, but I have my doubts.

[iwantcookies]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Jill & Derick seem to me to be the kind of folks who give up at the slightest struggle. If things don't stick to their predetermined script, they quit. Usually God is calling them in a different direction at just the 'right' time.

While I understand Derick has it in him to work hard and stay in school, school is predictable for Derick.

If they keep Fenna, I hope they step up their game, and step it up quick. Or maybe God will tell them they're fish people.

And like I mentioned before, outdoor dogs aren't a thing around here. Leaving dogs in the yard while no one is home hardly happens either. Is that the norm for most folks?

God should tell them to be fish sticks people. These idiots don’t need animals. 

[Zella]

2 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

 

I disagree about a smaller dog. Lots of people think that smaller dogs are better with small kids, but the opposite is true. Large dogs are usually gentle with kids while small dogs can find them threatening. They probably would have been better off with an adult lab, or something similar, but I agree that "no dog" is probably the best option for them. Dogs are a lot of work, and puppies are even more work. I've known a few people who didn't have dogs growing up, and got one as an adult. They were a little overwhelmed at first, but all became huge dog people (I know these people from the dog park, so that may make them a  non-representative sample). It's possible that either Jill or Derick could become an invested dog-owner, but their history suggests that that's unlikely.

Agreed--I've owned Chihuahuas for years, and I wouldn't have trusted any of my Chis (save one, maybe two) with a kid. I don't think the issue is so much the size as the dog as the energy level and disposition of the dog. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Zella

[awaken]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

. Usually God is calling them in a different direction at just the 'right' time.

I absolutely guarantee they’ll say this. God is leading them in a different direction as pet owners, and calling fenna to a different family. It’s so curious how god always decides to lead them in doing whatever they want. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by awaken

[JoanArc]

33 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

The shelter thing is my own, personal hobby-horse, and I'll let it go. I hope that Jill and Derick are buying books on dog training right now, and that the dog is inside for the night, but I have my doubts.

The dogs asleep inside, with the suburban hippie missionaries sleeping outside.

[rue721]

4 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

But I think it's more like an emotional commitment. The Duggars in general are very poor with emotional commitments to people other than themselves.

Hit the nail on the head — it’s about the emotional commitment, and they are not used to that.

When I adopted my dog, I had never had a dog before and had NO idea. It was a huge (and very expensive) struggle, Portia really turned my life upside down. But I remember going to visit my then-boyfriend with her about one or two months after adopting her, and she was being a huge pain (as usual during that time), and he told me I should just “give her back.” I was shocked. That was the beginning of the end of that relationship lol. It really was difficult, and I’m sure I WOULD have given her back if I had thought that was an option, because the first year of owning a dog (maybe any dog) can be really tough! But it wasn’t an option, because I had made the commitment. When I adopted her, she became a member of the family, and family members aren’t disposable! And now it is nearly a year and a half since I adopted her, and my life is SO much richer because she’s in it. I love her to pieces, and our lives are so much happier and bigger together than apart, and to be honest she has forced me to grow a bit.

It’s horrifying to think that they might treat Fenna as if she were disposable. I really hope they don’t, that they just let it be hard for a while and learn and grow from that. 

3 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

If they have a crate, that's where the dog should be while they're at church.

I know that it’s an unpopular opinion but I think it’s dangerous to leave a dog in a crate alone at home. What if there’s an emergency, like a fire? And I just think it would be really scary for the dog.

I think Fenna should have been in the kitchen with her bed, water, and toys, with the kitchen doors closed or baby-gated so that she doesn’t have access to the rest of the house until they get back. If the kitchen doesn’t work, then some other room in the house where a mess isn’t a big deal. And the whole place should be baby proofed anyway for Sam, so you’d think there wouldn’t be a lot of trouble for Fenna to get into anyhow.

I personally didn’t crate train, I got a huge crate for Portia, but she hated it and wanted to hang out on her blankie on the couch instead. I’d rather hang out there, too, instead of in a cage 😂 So I let it go, and she now can have run of the house when I go out without any problems. I know some dogs love their crate, because it’s like their little den, but I also feel like different strokes for different folks... dogs are living beings with idiosyncrasies, too. Although given how the Duggars treat individuality in their children, I doubt they would honor it in their pets lol.

54 minutes ago, Zella said:

Agreed--I've owned Chihuahuas for years, and I wouldn't have trusted any of my Chis (save one, maybe two) with a kid. I don't think the issue is so much the size as the dog as the energy level and disposition of the dog. 

Yes, definitely! Portia has had at least one litter, I think possibly not long before she was found abandoned (her nipples were very distended, etc). She LOVES babies, kids and puppies, and seems to see no difference between the species 😂 I think it’s because she was a mama herself. She is also VERY strong willed and wants to be in charge, and I think that’s because she was a mama, too 😂 Anyway, she gets very worried when she sees a puppy or baby not being obviously tended by an adult. It’s adorable. And she is very, very, very gentle and loving with babies (with everyone, really). That’s her disposition, though — very sociable, friendly, sweet, gentle, and maternal. She’s over fifty pounds and a high-energy, athletic dog, but I’d honestly trust her around anybody, including kids Sam’s age. It’s so funny what strong personalities animals have, I feel like they’re all as unique as human beings are.

[Growsonwalls]

@rue721 just curious, what kind of dog is Portia? 

I feel depressed. A few days ago I saw that Fenna had a doggie bed inside and a crate and was hopeful. But Jill seems to give up so easily. 

[rue721]

28 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

@rue721 just curious, what kind of dog is Portia? 

I feel depressed. A few days ago I saw that Fenna had a doggie bed inside and a crate and was hopeful. But Jill seems to give up so easily. 

Replied in Smalltalk 😊

[Oldernowiser]

I have crate trained many of my dogs quite successfully, particularly those I got as puppies or those that were unreliable in the house. Then came Mr. Griffey...who WAS NOT HAVING IT. I kept buying larger and larger crates (a Great Dane size for a then twenty-pound retriever puppy) and he’d thrash around all night, moaning piteously, and nobody got any sleep. So one night I tethered him to his dog bed on the floor instead and he slept like a star. Apparently he’s claustrophobic. 🙄 But of course. When we’re not home he has an enormous outdoor dog run INSIDE our garage with his own couch in it. We call it the Ape Cage. ‘Tis good to be Griffey.

To tie back to the topic...every dog is unique. It sounds like Fenna’s breeds might give her some fairly specific needs... I can only hope that the Dillards can figure those out and not just slap their generic expectations about what dogs are supposed to be on her. I wish I had more confidence in that...my fear is she’ll disappear and when pressed, magically some “sweet friend” will have begged them to take Fenna and they graciously agreed. Or some other bullshit cover story. 

[cmr2014]

2 hours ago, rue721 said:

I personally didn’t crate train, I got a huge crate for Portia, but she hated it and wanted to hang out on her blankie on the couch instead. I’d rather hang out there, too, instead of in a cage 😂 So I let it go, and she now can have run of the house when I go out without any problems. I know some dogs love their crate, because it’s like their little den, but I also feel like different strokes for different folks... dogs are living beings with idiosyncrasies, too. Although given how the Duggars treat individuality in their children, I doubt they would honor it in their pets lol.

This is anthropomorphizing. I was very anti-crate for a long time, but I was wrong. Dogs like small confined den-like spaces. My last dog loved her crate and went there to unwind when the rest of the household was too much (my current dog hated her crate, and after just a few tries, I gave up on crate-training her).

The problem with the crate -- especially for someone like Jill -- is that it's not supposed to be a playpen, or a place you shove the dog for 16 hours a day to keep  it out of your hair. It is, however, and ideal place for a new dog that doesn't know the rules of the house, when the family is off at church for an hour. A puppy can get into a LOT of trouble left on her own in a strange place, and a crate is a snug and secure space.

[cmr2014]

9 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

I have crate trained many of my dogs quite successfully, particularly those I got as puppies or those that were unreliable in the house. Then came Mr. Griffey...who WAS NOT HAVING IT. I kept buying larger and larger crates (a Great Dane size for a then twenty-pound retriever puppy) and he’d thrash around all night, moaning piteously, and nobody got any sleep. So one night I tethered him to his dog bed on the floor instead and he slept like a star. Apparently he’s claustrophobic. 🙄 But of course. When we’re not home he has an enormous outdoor dog run INSIDE our garage with his own couch in it. We call it the Ape Cage. ‘Tis good to be Griffey.

To tie back to the topic...every dog is unique. It sounds like Fenna’s breeds might give her some fairly specific needs... I can only hope that the Dillards can figure those out and not just slap their generic expectations about what dogs are supposed to be on her. I wish I had more confidence in that...my fear is she’ll disappear and when pressed, magically some “sweet friend” will have begged them to take Fenna and they graciously agreed. Or some other bullshit cover story. 

That's been my experience, too. Dogs are individuals and some take well to crate training, and other don't. Thinking about it today, the idea that Fenna would be with one "sweet friend" or another by next week concerned me -- she'd be better off being returned to the shelter than given to one of their fellow cult-members (I don't wish that life on a dog any more than I wish it on a child).

It occurred to me tonight, though, that Derick has been around the Duggars for about 6 years now. He's probably seen a half a dozen cats and dogs come and go in the various Duggar households. I think that part of the impetus for him to get a dog is to show off to the others that he isn't going to abandon an animal after a few weeks/months. That could be wishful thinking on my part -- we'll see.

[Zella]

I agree the crate thing is very individual. My Chihuahua hates being crated and acted like it was an affront to his dignity, so I don't use one with him. His brother--whom my grandmother owns--meanwhile loves nothing more than sitting his crate. He goes and hangs out there of his own free will. It really is his little den. (My dog, despite hating the idea of his own crate, has a special delight in staging a hostile takeover of his brother's crate. 🙄 He is quite the little upstart.)

So, the fact they have a crate for the dog doesn't bother me on its own. How they may plan to use the crate does. 

[Nysha]

My biggest complaint with crates is the amount of time many dogs spend in them. I know several families with 2 working adults who crate their dogs during the day while they're at work and then crate them at night when they go to bed. Why have a dog if you're only going to cage it up for 16-20 hours of the day?

But, I grew up in a cat family and never had a dog until I met my farmer husband. He had a dog when we got married and through the years we had another 3 dogs, all of them stayed outside. The first 3 we had when my husband farmed & they were working dogs. They slept in the barn and went everywhere with my husband during the day. The last dog we got was after he started working for the Forest Service. Beethoven who hated being in the house. His doghouse was heated and the few times it got too cold for him to stay outside he sat by the back door and whined. 

I don't think it's a horrible thing for the Dillard's dog to have to sleep outside as long as she is protected from the weather.  

[hathorlive]

11 hours ago, Zella said:

Agreed--I've owned Chihuahuas for years, and I wouldn't have trusted any of my Chis (save one, maybe two) with a kid. I don't think the issue is so much the size as the dog as the energy level and disposition of the dog. 

This.  I wouldn't let a child near a chi.  My grandmother's bit me constantly as a child.  They are great dogs but most are a bit frenetic around kids.  Heck,, I have a small beagle who doesn't like kids because she's small and they jump around a lot.  I've seen pitbulls that are awesome with kids and goldens who don't like them. It really is a dog specific thing and not a breed specific thing.  

I hope Jill gets some training and realizes that the dog needs time to settle in.

[MsJamieDornan]

12 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

And--fish take a lot of work and expense.

Gold fish ? Really ?

Does anyone have Jill's address? That post office box? Maybe we could send dog training books and a few tips on raising a dog.

[Madtown]

27 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Gold fish ? Really ?

 

Yes. My husband and I decided to get a fish tank many years ago. We bought some goldfish and other fish that worked well with them. We went to an actual tropical fish store so we were able to work with someone in the know and knew what we all needed. It was a TON of work to keep the tank clean, the pepples clean that we put at the bottom of the tank and all the other gadgets we got for them. We actually ended up taking the fish back because we found out that the water in our city, wasn't good for them(which explained why we lost a couple of fish pretty quickly). I loved having them and they were so calming, but even if the water was ok for them, once they would've passed, I wouldn't have gotten any more.

I hope things work out well with Fenna, but I truly hope they know when it might not be for them and take her back.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Madtown

[Tikichick]

12 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

I don't disagree with you, but getting the dog in the first place should be a serious commitment. If it doesn't work out, then it's great that the shelter can take the dog back and get it re-homed, but that would happen a lot less if people made some effort before going to the shelter. Shelters have had to put these rules and screening processes in place because people are so cavalier about the process in the first place.

The shelter thing is my own, personal hobby-horse, and I'll let it go. I hope that Jill and Derick are buying books on dog training right now, and that the dog is inside for the night, but I have my doubts.

I saw Jill mention in a video from the first night that the crate was out in the living area, but might wind up in their bedroom during the night if necessary.   That sounds to me like not only did they plan for the dog to be inside overnight, but might make sure she was very close at hand if there was an issue. 

[auntieminem]

I am so disappointed that they have a dog house and it appears want her to sleep there (unless I misunderstood). She said to go to their family page and comment but the page won't load, I have been there before. I wanted to nicely tell her what a horrible mistake that is.  I realize many people have outdoor dogs and they live ok lives, when I was a kid the only dogs we had were my dad's beagles and they lived in an outside kennel, they were not family pets but my dad's hunting partners. He would take them out several times a week just to run and follow trails for miles. I however have had dogs since 1983 and they have all been my family and indoors. I made so many mistakes with my first dog so I understand how the Dillards may be making bad decisions, I don't think it is malicious but rather ignorance. She is a very sweet dog and obviously wants to be with them and once she is out of puppy stage and can be trusted she will probably be a good family pet. I hope that someone else has suggested to them that sleeping outdoors is a bad idea, she has already tried to dig out and she may even be able to jump the fence. I volunteer with a rescue and we will not place a dog in home that will have their dog as an outdoor dog, nor even if they would leave their dog outdoors when they are not home. Too many bad things can happen to them, escape, stolen, get hurt, etc. I wish I could communicate this to her as her examples of pet care have been from her family. So Jana has dog that she seems to take pretty good care of and it has been around for a while. I wonder if that dog is indoors at night?  Sorry, this really bothered. I have a little of a soft spot for Jill because I do think she is trying do right and I want to cheer her on as she moves away from Gothardism. 

[Suzn]

I know some think all dogs need to be inside all the time, but I've always had outside dogs.  It depends on the breed, climate, yard and other circumstances.  My Siberian Huskies were happy to run wild in a large fenced yard and often would sleep out on snow rather than in their insulated dog houses.  I have only an Aussie now and she has a good winter coat and a good dog house.  The recent arctic weather due to the polar vortex made it too cold to leave her out and she was happy to be a house dog for a while, but when it warmed up, she made it plain that she wanted to get back to her job of patrolling the yard.  I had a flimsy barrier of chairs to keep her in one room overnight and though she would have no trouble getting out, she understood that she was supposed to stay there...until she had enough of the house.  So one morning I opened my eyes and there was a little Aussie face about six inches from mine.  It was clear that she was ready to go "home" to her yard.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Suzn

[auntieminem]

5 minutes ago, Suzn said:

I know some think all dogs need to be inside all the time, but I've always had outside dogs.  It depends on the breed, climate, yard and other circumstances.  My Siberian Huskies were happy to run wild in a large fenced yard and often would sleep out on snow rather than in their insulated dog houses.  I have only an Aussie now and she has a good winter coat and a good dog house.  The recent arctic weather due to the polar vortex made it too cold to leave her out and she was happy to be a house dog for a while, but when it warmed up, she made it plain that she wanted to get back to her job of patrolling the yard.  I had a flimsy barrier of chairs to keep her in one room overnight and though she would have no trouble getting out, she understood that she was supposed to stay there...until she had enough of the house.  So one morning I opened my eyes and there was a little Aussie face about six inches from mine.  It was clear that she was ready to go "home" to her yard.

Yeah, I have to keep reminding myself of this. It just seemed their pup really wanted to be in the house. I imagine outdoor dogs are more abundant in that area. My sister had a chow mix that hated being inside so they eventually built a large pen are for him with a dog house and he was so happy. I am biased since my last 4 dogs have been goldens from a golden retriever rescue.  Goldens really need to be with their people which why that rescue would not adopt dogs out to anyone who would make them outdoor pets.  I could never imagine leaving my dog outside overnight, she and all my goldens wanted to be with me 24/7.  I will try to not worry about the Dillard puppy and know that is is ok even if it is not the choice I would make.  At least they did consult with vet about her care and what they were doing right and wrong. 

[Zella]

I don't have a problem with people having outdoor pets as long as they are taken care of. My grandparents have owned blue heelers for years, and theirs wouldn't come in the house even when invited. The heelers have a pretty snug doghouse outside and really like it.

I think, as with the crate thing, it's not really that anything is inherently wrong with having an outside dog. It doesn't automatically mean you don't love your pet or you are an abusive or neglectful pet owner. It's just that this whole family has a bad track record with pets, so it is fair to question how a Duggar specifically is going to treat an outside pet or a crated pet. 

[Oldernowiser]

Yep, many Goldens are velcro dogs. So are many herders. Between Griffey and Nervous Dog I haven’t been to the bathroom alone in years.

Fenna’s Malinois/retriever mix, especially with a history of being a stray (with another dog, IIRC), would point toward Velcro behavior. You can’t bring a dog like that home and then leave for four hours...she has probably had very little experience being alone. You have to work up to it gradually and give them something delicious to lick at when you leave.

Griffey had severe separation anxiety for his first year. Now we say, “It’s KONG TIME!!!!” In our best gameshow host voice and he SPRINTS to his luxury condo. But it took along, long time to get him to that point.

I think the Dillards are making the basic rookie mistake in thinking the dog would just fit neatly into their existing lives. Nope. Dogs, like babies, change everything. 

They should have gotten a gerbil. 

 

[Growsonwalls]

The issue is that I think Fenna might have been an inside dog in her previous life. It seems like she's a bit of a velcro dog which is the way many retrievers and Belgian mal/GSD dogs are. 

The thing to remember about ALL dogs is that they're highly intelligent mammals. They have their own personalities, their quirks, and their needs. Some dogs are fine doing their own thing in a big backyard. Others need to be inside next to their owners at all time.

[TeeMo]

9 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Yep, many Goldens are velcro dogs. So are many herders. Between Griffey and Nervous Dog I haven’t been to the bathroom alone in years.

Fenna’s Malinois/retriever mix, especially with a history of being a stray (with another dog, IIRC), would point toward Velcro behavior. You can’t bring a dog like that home and then leave for four hours...she has probably had very little experience being alone. You have to work up to it gradually and give them something delicious to lick at when you leave.

Griffey had severe separation anxiety for his first year. Now we say, “It’s KONG TIME!!!!” In our best gameshow host voice and he SPRINTS to his luxury condo. But it took along, long time to get him to that point.

I think the Dillards are making the basic rookie mistake in thinking the dog would just fit neatly into their existing lives. Nope. Dogs, like babies, change everything. 

They should have gotten a gerbil. 

 

Yeah, I think people underestimate just how much time you need to put in with a dog especially at the start and how much you might have to work with a dog’s specific quirks. I adopted my dog when she was 9 months old and would say she was actually incredibly easy to get adjusted in most ways - she was housebroken and not a destructive chewer even when she was young. But even she had her quirks - hated her crate from the start and would literally refuse to move when you put a leash on her. It took several weeks of patient work EVERYDAY to get her to not just plop down and refuse to move when she was leashed or harnessed. It was infuriating but she eventually came around and now 11 years later she loses her mind with excitement when her leash comes out. She also had some food allergies that took a lot of time and clean up to figure out and deal with.

 Dogs are amazing but adjusting them into your life takes time and patience and understanding that you might not have all the answers - all things the Duggar/Dillards often seem to lack. 

[hathorlive]

56 minutes ago, Suzn said:

I know some think all dogs need to be inside all the time, but I've always had outside dogs.  It depends on the breed, climate, yard and other circumstances.  My Siberian Huskies were happy to run wild in a large fenced yard and often would sleep out on snow rather than in their insulated dog houses.  I have only an Aussie now and she has a good winter coat and a good dog house.  The recent arctic weather due to the polar vortex made it too cold to leave her out and she was happy to be a house dog for a while, but when it warmed up, she made it plain that she wanted to get back to her job of patrolling the yard.  I had a flimsy barrier of chairs to keep her in one room overnight and though she would have no trouble getting out, she understood that she was supposed to stay there...until she had enough of the house.  So one morning I opened my eyes and there was a little Aussie face about six inches from mine.  It was clear that she was ready to go "home" to her yard.

I dog sat for a Samoyed and called the owner in a panic because the dog was sleeping outside in the snow.  Heat can be oppressive for these breeds. Some dogs like being outside in their yard and not confined.  I'm  hoping Jill figures things out.  It seems like from her new videos that the dog is doing well and that training is going well.  Derrick had the dog doing "sit, lay downs" and she was on it, even with the kids running around.  She's a smart dog/breed.  I would love to tell Jill if she wants a quiet night time dog, put her in bed with Izzy and she'll sleep through the night like a pro.

[Jynnan tonnix]

1 minute ago, hathorlive said:

I dog sat for a Samoyed and called the owner in a panic because the dog was sleeping outside in the snow.  Heat can be oppressive for these breeds. Some dogs like being outside in their yard and not confined.  I'm  hoping Jill figures things out.  It seems like from her new videos that the dog is doing well and that training is going well.  Derrick had the dog doing "sit, lay downs" and she was on it, even with the kids running around.  She's a smart dog/breed.  I would love to tell Jill if she wants a quiet night time dog, put her in bed with Izzy and she'll sleep through the night like a pro.

Taking this over to the Prayer Closet.

[libgirl2]

16 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

And--fish take a lot of work and expense.  That is not a hobby for the feint of heart.  This would not be good for the Dillards.

My ex was into Discus fish. What a pain. We had a 55 gallon tank and he fed them frozen blood worms. The water had to be just so. those fish were so sensitive, I used to joke if you looked at them the wrong way they would be floating. When we moved it was all about keep the fish comfortable and safe...... Best thing we did was give them to someone else! 

[Suzn]

41 minutes ago, auntieminem said:

Yeah, I have to keep reminding myself of this. It just seemed their pup really wanted to be in the house. I imagine outdoor dogs are more abundant in that area. My sister had a chow mix that hated being inside so they eventually built a large pen are for him with a dog house and he was so happy. I am biased since my last 4 dogs have been goldens from a golden retriever rescue.  Goldens really need to be with their people which why that rescue would not adopt dogs out to anyone who would make them outdoor pets.  I could never imagine leaving my dog outside overnight, she and all my goldens wanted to be with me 24/7.  I will try to not worry about the Dillard puppy and know that is is ok even if it is not the choice I would make.  At least they did consult with vet about her care and what they were doing right and wrong. 

 

31 minutes ago, Zella said:

I don't have a problem with people having outdoor pets as long as they are taken care of. My grandparents have owned blue heelers for years, and theirs wouldn't come in the house even when invited. The heelers have a pretty snug doghouse outside and really like it.

I think, as with the crate thing, it's not really that anything is inherently wrong with having an outside dog. It doesn't automatically mean you don't love your pet or you are an abusive or neglectful pet owner. It's just that this whole family has a bad track record with pets, so it is fair to question how a Duggar specifically is going to treat an outside pet or a crated pet. 

I think it comes down to knowing the dog breed and the specific dog.  Meaning you have to pay attention to the needs of the dog.  I think Fenna appears to be more of a house dog, but their expectations are too high for a young dog just learning to adjust to them.  She doesn't have a coat meant to be outside overnight in cold weather.