Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[auntieminem]

It would be more interesting is TLC followed Jill's journey out of the cult than the boring courtship, babies, babies Duggar cult. Though it is probably best for Jill to not be on TLC.  It makes me happy to think of the envy created with certain of her family that People is featuring her acting like the rest of us.  She was always my favorite, not sure why and I had hopes for her and Derick because he had a regular college education. I was not happy with him about beliefs but I am now hoping his further education will help him be more open and understanding, we shall see. In the mean time, go Jill.  Keep sending your kids to public school. Now I hope a few more little Ds find their way out (looking at you, Jenifer, your sister mom loves you).  Wonder what Jessa will do in response to get attention.  

[Zella]

55 minutes ago, auntieminem said:

Wonder what Jessa will do in response to get attention.  

Probably double down on the Sayings of Spurgeon hashtag. 

[Tikichick]

11 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Thanks, but I wasn't a juror, I was the defendant in two different civil trials.  Occupational hazard for an obstetrician.  Since I wasn't a juror and my own opinion of the proceedings was irrelevant, I got to find out the reasons behind the wasted time. My wonderful attorney, same guy both cases, kept me posted as to the reasons for the various breaks and delays both times and I was not counting time spent in chambers with the attorneys working out scheduling, jury instructions, etc with the judge.  I was talking about all the times we took an extra hour or two for lunch (which was already a ridiculous hour and a half long) because 'the judge has something he wants to do' or the plaintiff's attorney changed his mind about the order of the witnesses and forgot to tell the witness involved so now there is going to be a two or three hour recess in the middle of the day so the right witness can get here.  We wasted, on average, two or more hours a day while legal professionals used their work day to accomplish non work related tasks or to allow for their lack of planning .  I found the general attitudes about it to be disrespectful to those who weren't being paid to be there.  And, no, I don't think the 30 bucks a day that jurors get counts as adequate compensation.

BTW, defense verdicts both times.  First jury unanimous after less than 10 minutes of deliberation.  Second jury 7-1 after a couple of hours.  And, altogether, 13 full work days that could've easily had been completed in less than 9 had there been even a modicum of effort to keep things moving and not allow huge hunks oftime to be wasted.  I'm also not counting the time spent hearing from 'expert' witnesses who were anything but.

As I said, if Jill is going to sit in court with Derick, she needs No Doz.  And a book to read.  Maybe some knitting,  And snacks.  A lot of snacks.

Even when court is actively in session it's tedious more often than not, particularly civil cases.  Even criminal cases aren't riveting revelation after revelation.  More like parse the same question from 79 different angles, trying to shade opinion bit by bit in a certain direction.   IMO it would be particularly tedious for Jill to sit there, because quite frankly not only isn't she educated at a level to begin to follow much of what's going on, her very limited life experiences and history of indoctrination in stunted beliefs would give her a very distorted view of the legal system and life in society at large. 

[GeeGolly]

Jessa is likely already filming herself talking about the possibility of twins. She'll leave out the fact she isn't pregnant.

[ginger90]

6 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

IMO it would be particularly tedious for Jill to sit there, because quite frankly not only isn't she educated at a level to begin to follow much of what's going on, her very limited life experiences and history of indoctrination in stunted beliefs would give her a very distorted view of the legal system and life in society at large. 

Or it could be enjoyable, and enlightening. She doesn’t need to fulfill any prerequisites.

Edited September 8, 2020 by ginger90

[Tikichick]

3 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Or it could be enjoyable, and enlightening. She doesn’t need to fulfill any prerequisites.

Having spent the hours in courtrooms I have, it's at least 95% tedious on an interesting day.   As far as enlightening, like I said, in Jill's case I feel her lack of education and life experiences outside of a sheltered backwards family who fed her a continuous diet about how the entire world outside of that bubble is so sinful will leave her not only bored, but confused by a great deal of what's going on and getting a lot of reinforcement for the idea that outside of the bubble everyone else in society is sinful and godless.  

[ozziemom]

11 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Jessa is likely already filming herself talking about the possibility of twins. She'll leave out the fact she isn't pregnant.

Or maybe the “we’re adopting”  storyline will come up again.

[GeeGolly]

Just now, ozziemom said:

Or maybe the “we’re adopting”  storyline will come up again.

They're thinking about adopting twins!

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

Having spent the hours in courtrooms I have, it's at least 95% tedious on an interesting day.   As far as enlightening, like I said, in Jill's case I feel her lack of education and life experiences outside of a sheltered backwards family who fed her a continuous diet about how the entire world outside of that bubble is so sinful will leave her not only bored, but confused by a great deal of what's going on and getting a lot of reinforcement for the idea that outside of the bubble everyone else in society is sinful and godless.  

I'm with you.  Even at the biggest, most interesting trials; about 99% of it is coma inducing.  People have gotten spoiled by TV legal dramas which in no way represent real life just as medical dramas are nothing like real medicine.

Even Jill, with her narrow view of the world isn't going to find a court case interesting after the initial newness is gone, which takes maybe 10-15 minutes.

Edited September 8, 2020 by doodlebug

[lascuba]

Court is boring when you're in the courtroom; watching it from a screen must be mind numbing, even for Jill who was probably watching as a "date" with Derick. I had jury duty for almost 3 weeks for an robbery case. The most boring 3 weeks of my life and I was actually looking forward to seeing a case unfold. But I never actually got to the see the case unfold, because when I was dismissed (by the prosecutor, who very obviously was going to get rid of me as soon as we got to the part where the attorneys could dismiss jurors without reason, so the waste of time was even more annoying)  jury selection was still far from over. I'll never get over how courts are allowed to be that inefficient.

Never expected Jill to be the one to admit to drinking alcohol. I now see her as the one who--if she had gone to college--would have gone buck wild at the first hint of freedom.

[lookeyloo]

I seem to recall that Derick said once that drinking wasn't a sin.  Am I dreaming this?  I can imagine Jill, Derick, Cousin Amy and Dill Pickle having the conversations and Jill finally agreeing to "just one sip" and "see? the earth didn't stop".  Also, as much as I dislike Derick, he is looking physically less awful lately.  

[iwantcookies]

On 9/6/2020 at 4:31 PM, Steff said:

she's now verified in the comments that it was a "regular" pina colada not a virgin one.  Go Jilly Muffin Go!!!!!  She had a shockingly normal date night.  Went out to dinner, got a buzz, & most likely got a piece of ass.   (sorry for the visual)

Yeah I don’t want to picture those 2 getting their intimate touching/lotion time on. Brain bleach please.

[lascuba]

15 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

I seem to recall that Derick said once that drinking wasn't a sin.  Am I dreaming this?  I can imagine Jill, Derick, Cousin Amy and Dill Pickle having the conversations and Jill finally agreeing to "just one sip" and "see? the earth didn't stop".  Also, as much as I dislike Derick, he is looking physically less awful lately.  

I know Jeremy once said that, but I don't recall Derick every saying anything about alcohol.

[leighdear]

Probably best that Jill doesn't have much contact with her family now that she's gone scorched earth on every tenant she was raised with.  Talking about her sex life on social media, wearing immodest clothing, putting her child in public school and drinking alcohol in public is pretty in-your-face.  

I wonder if the younger kids are confused by the hypocrisy/change from what Jill espoused to them all their lives.  Kinda hard to trust somebody that makes such extreme changes in such a short time, even if they are your sister.  

[Scarlett45]

28 minutes ago, leighdear said:

Probably best that Jill doesn't have much contact with her family now that she's gone scorched earth on every tenant she was raised with.  Talking about her sex life on social media, wearing immodest clothing, putting her child in public school and drinking alcohol in public is pretty in-your-face.  

I wonder if the younger kids are confused by the hypocrisy/change from what Jill espoused to them all their lives.  Kinda hard to trust somebody that makes such extreme changes in such a short time, even if they are your sister.  

I could see some confusion, but I believe Jill’s buddy group loves her more than they do anyone (besides Joy loving her own kid), and if any of them wanted to question they would trust Jill’s lead. James and Jenny are still in contact with her last I saw. (We know she was at Joy’s last labor). 

[GeeGolly]

I loved watching Court TV, back in the day. I sat through many a trial. Of course its different when you're in your home and can come and go as you please. I also like documentaries, so there's that.

If Jill enjoys watching hour long sermons on the laptop, I'm thinking she might enjoy watching a trial or two.

[Dimi1]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I could see some confusion, but I believe Jill’s buddy group loves her more than they do anyone (besides Joy loving her own kid), and if any of them wanted to question they would trust Jill’s lead. James and Jenny are still in contact with her last I saw. (We know she was at Joy’s last labor). 

Is Jenny the perpetually unhappy looking one? if so, I can see Jill helping her making a beeline out of the big house...

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, Dimi1 said:

Is Jenny the perpetually unhappy looking one? if so, I can see Jill helping her making a beeline out of the big house...

Yes that’s Jenny. 

[GeeGolly]

I'm guessing other than pants and the nose ring, Jill's sisters think not much has changed. She may be "too busy" to hang at the TTH. Jill most likely has been instructed not to talk about any estrangement with her sisters, and I doubt Jill would want to confuse/involve them.

And really, Jill still is a straight-laced Christian. Its not like she's hitting the bars with a drink in one hand and a blunt in the other. Not yet anyway. lol

[ginger90]

What Derick has said about alcohol:

[Ijustwantsomechips]

3 hours ago, leighdear said:

I wonder if the younger kids are confused by the hypocrisy/change from what Jill espoused to them all their lives.  Kinda hard to trust somebody that makes such extreme changes in such a short time, even if they are your sister mom.

FTFY

[crazy8s]

i wonder if any of them see Jill wasn't immediately consumed by the flames of hell by each infraction to duggar/gothard/man made rules.

surely the kids from Jackson and down are not seeing Jill's actual posts so JB can continue brainwashing them in the usual ways

[doodlebug]

5 hours ago, leighdear said:

Probably best that Jill doesn't have much contact with her family now that she's gone scorched earth on every tenant she was raised with.  Talking about her sex life on social media, wearing immodest clothing, putting her child in public school and drinking alcohol in public is pretty in-your-face.  

I wonder if the younger kids are confused by the hypocrisy/change from what Jill espoused to them all their lives.  Kinda hard to trust somebody that makes such extreme changes in such a short time, even if they are your sister.  

Or, because Jill was the one family member who demonstrated her love and caring for them day in and day out; perhaps the changes she's made in her life have caused her buddies to question the way they've been forced to live by their less than attentive parents.  There's a reason that JB won't allow Jill to visit without his personal consent and I don't think it's because he's worried the younger kids will be appalled by her current lifestyle.

[Zella]

6 hours ago, leighdear said:

Probably best that Jill doesn't have much contact with her family now that she's gone scorched earth on every tenant she was raised with.  Talking about her sex life on social media, wearing immodest clothing, putting her child in public school and drinking alcohol in public is pretty in-your-face.  

I wonder if the younger kids are confused by the hypocrisy/change from what Jill espoused to them all their lives.  Kinda hard to trust somebody that makes such extreme changes in such a short time, even if they are your sister.  

It's not hypocrisy for your opinions on something to change. And who is the bigger hypocrite here? Jill for breaking away from her family's teachings, which she is entirely entitled to do as an adult and which many people do, or her fucking deadbeat parents for wallowing in publicity for how many kids they have but then foisting off the childcare responsibility on other kids? 

[Jynnan tonnix]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

It's not hypocrisy for your opinions on something to change. And who is the bigger hypocrite here? Jill for breaking away from her family's teachings, which she is entirely entitled to do as an adult and which many people do, or her fucking deadbeat parents for wallowing in publicity for how many kids they have but then foisting off the childcare responsibility on other kids? 

I totally agree that evolving opinions do not make one a hypocrite. If I thought that her change of mind was completely due to her change in headship, and her heart was not in it, then there might be some hypocrisy there (though I'm not sure that would really qualify if she were basically under duress), but she seems so much happier these days, that I can't think that's the case.

I sort of hate to give Derick credit, so I'm choosing to believe that maybe both their views are evolving in tandem. I hope so, anyway.

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

I totally agree that evolving opinions do not make one a hypocrite. If I thought that her change of mind was completely due to her change in headship, and her heart was not in it, then there might be some hypocrisy there (though I'm not sure that would really qualify if she were basically under duress), but she seems so much happier these days, that I can't think that's the case.

I sort of hate to give Derick credit, so I'm choosing to believe that maybe both their views are evolving in tandem. I hope so, anyway.

I also think timing is key. I don't think anyone can be accused of hypocrisy for views they may have espoused years earlier as a child/young adult in a repressive environment when those views have naturally evolved literally years later. 

[GeeGolly]

Maybe Jill actually believes Michelle's words. She always said her girls can decide what they wear when they became adults. Michelle also said  she "doesn't judge others" (I know, lol) who drink alcohol, send their kids to public school, etc, the Duggars choose what's best for their family. 

If nothing else, Jill is putting those words to the test. 

[lascuba]

17 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I loved watching Court TV, back in the day. I sat through many a trial. Of course its different when you're in your home and can come and go as you please. I also like documentaries, so there's that.

If Jill enjoys watching hour long sermons on the laptop, I'm thinking she might enjoy watching a trial or two.

Heh. Good point. Mind-numbing wastes of time are her preferred forms of entertainment.

[doodlebug]

10 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

I totally agree that evolving opinions do not make one a hypocrite. If I thought that her change of mind was completely due to her change in headship, and her heart was not in it, then there might be some hypocrisy there (though I'm not sure that would really qualify if she were basically under duress), but she seems so much happier these days, that I can't think that's the case.

I sort of hate to give Derick credit, so I'm choosing to believe that maybe both their views are evolving in tandem. I hope so, anyway.

If nothing else, I'd like to think that Derick truly cares about Jill as a human being, saw how she was suffering and has done his best to help and support her. And her life has improved by leaps and bounds because of it.  Isn't that a big part of marriage?  He might not be all that great at empathy when it comes to people he doesn't know, but, if he hadn't encouraged Jill to seek help, I don't think she could've done it on her own. We've seen how much her parents cared about Jill and her siblings when her brother molested them.  They weren't even allowed to acknowledge their pain, let alone address it.

[Minivanessa]

9 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

If nothing else, I'd like to think that Derick truly cares about Jill as a human being, saw how she was suffering and has done his best to help and support her. And her life has improved by leaps and bounds because of it.  Isn't that a big part of marriage?  He might not be all that great at empathy when it comes to people he doesn't know, but, if he hadn't encouraged Jill to seek help, I don't think she could've done it on her own. We've seen how much her parents cared about Jill and her siblings when her brother molested them.  They weren't even allowed to acknowledge their pain, let alone address it.

Well said. Perhaps because I come from a Southern Baptist family (both parents reared in the SB church), with lots of SB cousins, I have always thought of Derick as a guy who grew up as a mainstream Southern Baptist kid in Arkansas. Public school, hanging out with friends, watching TV, going to movies, having a mom with a job, and all the mixing and mingling you'd expect from a middle-class kid growing up in Arkansas. He didn't grow up in a cloistered environment, his parents weren't raising him according to booklets written by an elderly bachelor pervert, and he didn't need accountability partners to go to the freaking store. 

I wonder if he would have taken that deep dive into the fundie world by getting JB as a "prayer partner" and marrying Jill, if he hadn't been sitting there in Nepal feeding his newfound religious fervor by what he could access on his laptop, during what I suspect were some long lonely nights. I think he was probably lonely, definitely horny, and had the stress of knowing his mother was being treated for cancer. He probably swallowed the whole fantasy of finding this great new family he could join. And he rushed into marriage after he got home. IIRC his mother was very fragile physically from the cancer/treatments at the time of the wedding although she's recovered her strength since then which is great. 

I also like to think he cares about his wife and wants to have a happy home life for his family. He's spouted off some abhorrent nonsense publicly (the Jazz attack) and paid the price. He seems to have calmed down, and I don't think he would have landed those summer internships after his first year in law school if he acted like a raging ideologue or religious zealot at school. He knows how to do school, and while I don't think he'll ever move far from his current beliefs, he may learn some patience and tolerance from the ideas and people he's exposed to in law school. 

[TeeMo]

I know Cousin Amy can be an attention seeking try hard but I am glad that Jill has her as support while she keeps tip toeing out into the non Duggar world. It has to be comforting for Jill to have someone who she has known all her life on her side. Derick also seems to be supportive but he only came into her life a few years ago and doesn’t have the same kind of understanding of the Duggar ecosystem that Amy does. I wonder if Jill would have been able to take so many bold (for her) steps this quickly without Amy around as a cheerleader. Honestly, it is the nicest thing I have seen between members of this family in a long time or maybe ever and it makes me glad for Jill. 

[floridamom]

Yes, Michelle SAID those 'I don't judge others' things on TV but she does judge others. If she didn't she would not insist that her 30 year old unmarried daughter wear dresses and still can't go to the store by herself...during the day. Michelle is full of it. Her superiority keeps her humble.

[Tikichick]

9 hours ago, doodlebug said:

If nothing else, I'd like to think that Derick truly cares about Jill as a human being, saw how she was suffering and has done his best to help and support her. And her life has improved by leaps and bounds because of it.  Isn't that a big part of marriage?  He might not be all that great at empathy when it comes to people he doesn't know, but, if he hadn't encouraged Jill to seek help, I don't think she could've done it on her own. We've seen how much her parents cared about Jill and her siblings when her brother molested them.  They weren't even allowed to acknowledge their pain, let alone address it.

In fact they actually may have been led to believe they should shoulder at least some of the responsibility for what happened, if not in fact that their behavior instigated it somehow.

[mythoughtis]

Jill is entitled to determine her own  beliefs.  Stepping out from her parents decisions into her own isn’t hypocritical.  It’s maturing, it’s learning and applying critical thinking.  Even older adults change their minds about things.  I sure have. 
 

there are lots of Christian  denominations that see no problem with occasional alcoholic drinks, wearing shorts, etc.   

Edited September 10, 2020 by mythoughtis

[hathorlive]

14 hours ago, doodlebug said:

If nothing else, I'd like to think that Derick truly cares about Jill as a human being, saw how she was suffering and has done his best to help and support her. And her life has improved by leaps and bounds because of it.  Isn't that a big part of marriage?  He might not be all that great at empathy when it comes to people he doesn't know, but, if he hadn't encouraged Jill to seek help, I don't think she could've done it on her own. We've seen how much her parents cared about Jill and her siblings when her brother molested them.  They weren't even allowed to acknowledge their pain, let alone address it.

I'm probably giving Derrick too much credit here, but if he realized how desperately Jill did not want to be on TV, maybe the Jazz hate was to get kicked off TV.  It's still abhorrent but there's a slyness there I can appreciate.  If his hate tweets were out of anger for what JB was doing to Jill, then I can handle that.  I think any normal man would be horrified that his wife's family abused her, shamed her and then forced her to go on TV and publicly forgive the sleazeball. I would be furious and filled with hate too.  

From what I can see of Derrick, he has encouraged Jill to grow and do new things.  If he helped her find professional counseling, then he gets more points in my book.   Of everyone in Jill's life, Derrick is looking out for her best interests.  And yes, I just threw up a bit in my mouth typing that.  I would love to tell Jill that she's on the outside looking in right now, and it's lonely.  But in the end, when the show is gone and her family is a trivia question, she'll have a small family and a husband with two degrees.   They should be able to support themselves and not beg for scraps from JB's table.  That's winning, Jilly.   She looks so much happier and relaxed.  I think she's grown into her own person.

[GeeGolly]

I see Jill as a victim of circumstances. It seems to me her current situation is not due to a purposeful plan. Derick became full of himself and greedy, and pissed off TLC and JB when he didn't get his way. Jill had three constants her entire life; faith, family and TLC, and Derick's actions unintentionally and abruptly ripped two away. 

I think its good for Jill to be more independent from TLC and her family. I'm hopeful this new independence will be healthier for her, but I don't see that either her or Derick chose this outcome. And while I'm happy she's has Amy, Amy is still a fame-whoring Duggar.

In the end, even though this path wasn't a choice, its still an opportunity. Hopefully one that works out well for Jill.

I also hope that in whatever law direction Derick goes in, he's mature enough to realize he won't always "win" and that he can't pitch a fit and demand his way. 

[MargeGunderson]

9 hours ago, hathorlive said:

I'm probably giving Derrick too much credit here, but if he realized how desperately Jill did not want to be on TV, maybe the Jazz hate was to get kicked off TV.  It's still abhorrent but there's a slyness there I can appreciate.  If his hate tweets were out of anger for what JB was doing to Jill, then I can handle that.  I think any normal man would be horrified that his wife's family abused her, shamed her and then forced her to go on TV and publicly forgive the sleazeball. I would be furious and filled with hate too.  

From what I can see of Derrick, he has encouraged Jill to grow and do new things.  If he helped her find professional counseling, then he gets more points in my book.   Of everyone in Jill's life, Derrick is looking out for her best interests.  And yes, I just threw up a bit in my mouth typing that.  I would love to tell Jill that she's on the outside looking in right now, and it's lonely.  But in the end, when the show is gone and her family is a trivia question, she'll have a small family and a husband with two degrees.   They should be able to support themselves and not beg for scraps from JB's table.  That's winning, Jilly.   She looks so much happier and relaxed.  I think she's grown into her own person.

Or Derick and Jill could just have declined to be on the show anymore. They are adults and can make that choice. Getting “fired” so he wouldn’t have to put on his big boy pants and buck up would be a real punk-ass bitch move. 

[ginger90]

[Churchhoney]

On 9/8/2020 at 2:35 PM, leighdear said:

 

I wonder if the younger kids are confused by the hypocrisy/change from what Jill espoused to them all their lives.  Kinda hard to trust somebody that makes such extreme changes in such a short time, even if they are your sister.  

In my experience, people who've lived as children, teens and young adults in very closed and repressive situations parrot what their parents have told them to parrot and (to a greater or lesser degree) avoid even thinking outside that box, let alone talking outside that box. Most of their energy goes toward surviving in the repressive situation. 

Then, if they move on, most start to think for themselves and say different things. Because it's the first time their minds have had any of the freedom to think for themselves that other young people take for granted. 

That's in no way hypocrisy. They were puppets. And they were young and dependent on the puppet masters for their very survival. Once they're out, they're no longer puppets. So they're able, for the first time, to think for themselves and speak their own feelings and thoughts. 

Been there, done that. And have seen it in many other people as well. We're not hypocrites because we said different things at a time when we had no experience and no control of our lives. 

[Churchhoney]

On 9/9/2020 at 8:36 AM, lascuba said:

Heh. Good point. Mind-numbing wastes of time are her preferred forms of entertainment.

That may explain Jill's old smiley face, I think. Because that preference would be a lucky break for any Duggarling, since it seems to me the TTH has pretty much supplied nothing but mind-numbing wastes of time for everyone from time immemorial to the present day. 😁

Imagine "school days' "led" by Meeeechelle and the Wisdom Books. And the sermons (preached by dictatorial idiots) that they actually screened for those kids. And the apparent hours of sitting on the bus-station couches staring at your phone -- when you've never made a single friend outside your house and your controlling parents have installed a JB-M-Gothard-friendly thou-shalt-not-surf-the-Internet spying app on it! 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Churchhoney

[Tikichick]

10 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Jill is entitled to determine her own  beliefs.  Stepping out from her parents decisions into her own isn’t hypocritical.  It maturing, it’s learning and applying critical thinking.  Even older adults change their minds about things.  I sure have. 
 

there are lots of Christian  denominations that see no problem with occasional alcoholic drinks, wearing shorts, etc.   

I am a practicing Christian in the Lutheran denomination.  For those who don't know, Martin Luther was a former(not by his choosing) Catholic priest who became so disturbed by the hypocrisy and outright corruption of the practice of Catholicism led by priests and other church hierarchy that he posted his points of displeasure on the church door, leading to the Reformation movement -- and his being no longer welcome in those doors or the doors of any other Catholic church.

His wife brewed beer, a common practice in German households of the day.  Here is what Martin had to say about beer:

"Whoever drinks beer, he is quick to sleep; whoever sleeps long does not sin; whoever does not sin enters Heaven!  Thus let us drink beer!"   I should point out that Martin was known for his tart and pointed words, and also had a sense of humor -- but mostly that first thing.  Lutherans are evangelical Christians who are not against drinking alcohol.

   

[Snow Fairy]

Well Jesus did turn water into wine, so I think he wasn't opposed to alcohol and drinking either

[Ijustwantsomechips]

11 hours ago, hathorlive said:

I'm probably giving Derrick too much credit here, but if he realized how desperately Jill did not want to be on TV, maybe the Jazz hate was to get kicked off TV

This is exactly what I was thinking!

[Tikichick]

19 hours ago, TeeMo said:

I know Cousin Amy can be an attention seeking try hard but I am glad that Jill has her as support while she keeps tip toeing out into the non Duggar world. It has to be comforting for Jill to have someone who she has known all her life on her side. Derick also seems to be supportive but he only came into her life a few years ago and doesn’t have the same kind of understanding of the Duggar ecosystem that Amy does. I wonder if Jill would have been able to take so many bold (for her) steps this quickly without Amy around as a cheerleader. Honestly, it is the nicest thing I have seen between members of this family in a long time or maybe ever and it makes me glad for Jill. 

I'm honestly wondering if the different vibe I'm noticing between Jill and Derrick is at all due to the possibility that Derrick genuinely didn't realize how stunted the Duggar upbringing truly was and he in fact found himself married to someone he not only barely knew, but hadn't recognized didn't know herself, had no understanding of her own existence as an individual being outside of being JB's daughter and then Derrick's wife and mother to his children, and had absolutely no ability to engage in independent thoughts, ideas and critical thinking wholly on her own initiative.

Shortly after their marriage the public scandal rocked the family and Derrick became aware his wife had not only been victimized by her brother, but the response of her parents went far beyond simple neglect, instead doubling down and shifting the responsibility onto the backs of the victims while prioritizing sheltering the abuser -- and their own precious reputation and brand.   Remember, Derrick initially was inspired, dazzled and taken in by JB's reputation as a godly man -- one that Derrick sought out as a guide in his own journey of faith.  To a certain extent the Derrick we were watching and coming to know was probably someone essentially flailing around in the dark, completely unaware that there was no floor beneath his feet.   No doubt he's been experiencing a serious learning curve essentially the entire time he's been known to the public.   

[Barb23]

11 hours ago, hathorlive said:

 But in the end, when the show is gone and her family is a trivia question, she'll have a small family and a husband with two degrees.  

I love that line about the family will be a trivia question after the show is gone.  How true & I think it has become that way even with the Counting On (or whatever they call it now) version still airing.  

On a different note, I wonder how Izzy is enjoying school.  I'm sure he is fitting right in.

[Absolom]

2 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Derick looks more relaxed lately than I've seen him in years.  It's amazing to me that's happened while he's in law school, but some things in his life must be working out and it seems to be helping Jill also.  She seems happier than in years.

[dariafan]

2 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

Well Jesus did turn water into wine, so I think he wasn't opposed to alcohol and drinking either

But fundy churches won’t say its wine ....  all the sunday sermons on this.  Ugh 

[lascuba]

2 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

Well Jesus did turn water into wine, so I think he wasn't opposed to alcohol and drinking either

IT WAS GRAPE JUICE!

[iwantcookies]

It was Jesus juice!

[BigBingerBro]

Check out her snark about people commenting on her beverages: