Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Liddy52]

I know it is easy to armchair quarterback, but it would be nice if Amy could give her a part time job in her store. Not sure exactly what she could do, but Amy would be familiar with her limitations and perhaps more understanding than other employers. It might give her some more self confidence and she could get more exposure.  As she learned new skills, she could take on more responsibility.  know that it is unlikely to happen,  but I think it might be a good option for Jill.

[Zella]

30 minutes ago, Madtown said:

This is what is so sad about her life. Being Jesus 24/7 and being taught that everyone else is sinner, puts such a limit on what she can do. Those boys should for sure be in some type of pre-school and I think it do her a world of good to get a nice little part time job. But she's just so stunted that I don't think she would have any confidence in herself to succeed in that. Heck, can she even get a babysitter that isn't a family member or a "sweet friend" and go do the grocery shopping by herself?

I would think there are plenty of families in their neighborhood that she could meet up with some of them and their kids, but a lot of the mom's could be working too. I think she just lacks so much with communication because she is not very well educated, that she would have difficulty talking with non-fundy/non-religious people.

She has a long life ahead of her if all she does is worry about how long Derick is gone and she's stuck with the boys all day. I think if anyone should've waited a year to have a child, it should've been Jill. Unfortunatley, she has drank the most kool-aid and now has two kids she doesn't know what to do with.

I think this is one of the reasons that, though I snark on Jill, I still can't help but feel really sorry for her. I think all the Duggar kids are really emotionally damaged from their upbringing, but Jill seems to be the one most noticeably affected. I still have never gotten over the way she sobbed in that interview with Megan Kelly or that detail about her hiding in the bathroom to eat.

And I don't think her life after leaving home has helped her with any of her issues. I am occasionally cheered by what seems like progress from Jill. Small progress but progress--like the books she seems to be reading that are almost certainly targeted at her parents and the handful of visits to the library--but she always seems to take so many steps back after she inches her way forward. But I suspect that's just inevitable with the issues she has and the way her upbringing so severely crippled her. 😞  

[lookeyloo]

Maybe she posts so much so she can read the comments and it makes her feel less lonely and more connected to people from a distance.  I agree with everyone that she needs some structure in her life, and a few minutes away from the boys.  But, she also needs someone to mentor her in how to use that time for herself within the constraints of her beliefs, whatever they are.

[Growsonwalls]

Can't believe I'm saying this but I wish JB and Michelle would recognize that Jill is struggling and offer her some support. I realize it's not in their toolbox to offer their kids support but I feel like even a small gesture to make Jill feel like she's still part of the family is needed. 

Of course if Jill doesn't want to be at TTH because of Smuggar she's totally within her rights. But JB and Michelle could, you know, visit her. Do something. Be a parent.

[Absolom]

If the books Jill is reading about boundaries and relationships are due to Jim Bob and Michelle's upbringing and continuing control issues, then any "help" she'd receive from them would be counterproductive unless they recognize and correct their behavior.  I don't see that happening.   Distance is perhaps her best technique at the moment.  Preschool at least a few mornings a week for the boys with Jill going somewhere almost anywhere on her own would be a good step. She used to go to Bible study.  That would be a good thing for her to begin with again if she stopped.

[Trillium]

Jill has done a sporadic things like an hour at the library and a MLM party, but she needs regular activities for her and the kids. But unfortunately, since she has no idea how to function on her own, even for a few hours. Until she address that, it won’t help because she won’t know what to do while the kids are elsewhere. I worry that even once DD finishes law school, he’ll be busier than she’s expecting and as the kids grow older she might rely on them for emotional support. She grew up where her parents were both home all the time, there was zero semblance of structure or routine. She can’t handle being alone or not getting attention from someone, her family or on SM. Shes obviously struggling with basic life. But she’ll just pray the “burdens” go away. Jesus will fix it if she prays hard enough. No, she needs therapy (I think everyone could benefit from therapy for the record)

Edited December 18, 2019 by Trillium

[Mojitogirl]

All these issues perceptive posters are discussing with regards to Jill are the basic reasons Anna could never leave Josh. Imagine all these emotional and psychological burdens Jill has and add in no spouse ever coming home after a long day, no starter home, 6!! Kids, and the overwhelming grief and guilt of what happened to her.  None of these women are in the slightest bit equipped to live a life in the real world. 

[Natalie68]

On 12/16/2019 at 4:42 PM, Jynnan tonnix said:

It's one of the beigest things I think I've ever seen. What's wrong with a big pot of stewed chicken with onions, carrots, celery, peppers, and a can of tomatoes? Some fresh herbs and spices...Colorful, filling and delicious. With rice on the side. Heck, if she got ambitious she could even throw in some Portuguese sausage, some zingy olives, and amp up the pepper a bit.  I doubt it even takes much longer to throw together than this cream of glop. 

Making fresh noodles/dumplings sounds like more work than it's worth when everything else is canned. 

Just me, but I would rather use commercial noodles but non canned chicken and not canned soup than everything from a can except the noodles.  Makes zero sense to me.  

[BitterApple]

We've seen a few random pictures of Jill with "Mom groups" but those relationships seemed to have cooled off. This is kind of a bitchy thing to say, but I can't help but wonder if the women found Jill immature and annoying and didn't invite her to participate in meet-ups beyond the first time. She seems to be bored and floundering, judging by her recent posts.

Edited December 18, 2019 by BitterApple

[Nysha]

29 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Can't believe I'm saying this but I wish JB and Michelle would recognize that Jill is struggling and offer her some support. I realize it's not in their toolbox to offer their kids support but I feel like even a small gesture to make Jill feel like she's still part of the family is needed. 

Too bad they won't send her Jenny for a couple of weeks. That would help everyone. Jenny would get to spend time with her sister-mom, she won't have to compete with a dozen siblings and nieces/nephews for adult attention, she's at the age where playing with preschoolers is still fun, and Jill can home school her just as well as whoever is in charge at the TTH and Jill would get a chance to reconnect with the one family member who probably loves her unconditionally.

[emma675]

Jill desperately needs therapy and those boys need to be in some kind of school where their days are all more structured. She frustrates me beyond reason and I truly hate her beliefs, but I feel sorry for her. If her days are structured around when Dillhole leaves and comes back, that is incredibly sad and not a good outlook for the future. His days will only get longer if he graduates and actually becomes a lawyer. 

[Zella]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

If the books Jill is reading about boundaries and relationships are due to Jim Bob and Michelle's upbringing and continuing control issues, then any "help" she'd receive from them would be counterproductive unless they recognize and correct their behavior.  I don't see that happening.   Distance is perhaps her best technique at the moment.  Preschool at least a few mornings a week for the boys with Jill going somewhere almost anywhere on her own would be a good step. She used to go to Bible study.  That would be a good thing for her to begin with again if she stopped.

Agreed 100%. I suspect Jill is starting to recognize how fucked-up her childhood was--probably not in a very nuanced or even deep way but still. However, the consequences of that realization are also devastating for her since it cuts her off from the only thing she has ever known. Sadly, I don't think even her siblings are a valid option as a means of family affection since they are still in the fold. Any interaction with them is going to be colored with the suspicion that they will report anything she says to their parents or that they are potentially still exerting an influence from their parents.

Jill is in the unenviable position of having to build her own support system, which is hard for anyone, but she lacks even the basic tools one would need to go about doing so. Her best bet is probably through Cathy, quite frankly, and sympathetic friends from church, but even then, Jill will still have to do a lot of the work herself. And I don't think she is able to. I really don't mean that meanly. 

44 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

We've seen a few random pictures of Jill with "Mom groups" but those relationships seemed to have cooled off. This is kind of a bitchy thing to say, but I can't help but wonder if the women found Jill immature and annoying and didn't invite her to participate in meet-ups beyond the first time. She seems to be bored and floundering, judging by her recent posts.

I suspect when people befriend Jill, she transfers some of the clinginess from Derick to them, and it is overwhelming even if they otherwise like her. I think even if some of her friends she seems to have made from church enjoy her company and are genuinely empathetic to her, they just literally cannot spend as much time with Jill as Jill expects people to be able to do since her frame of reference for that is warped due to her own upbringing. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Zella

[crazy8s]

55 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

We've seen a few random pictures of Jill with "Mom groups" but those relationships seemed to have cooled off. This is kind of a bitchy thing to say, but I can't help but wonder if the women found Jill immature and annoying and didn't invite her to participate in meet-ups beyond the first time. She seems to be bored and floundering, judging by her recent posts.

 She has also moved a few times. She went to the library twice at the new house but only with the one friend I think.

But perhaps she was overwhelmed and terrified by the experience somehow.

Saying this because I recently took my grandson who is Izzy's age to preschool story time at his local library just before thanksgiving. instead of the usually thanksgiving books and crafts they did books about different sorts of families.

3 very different non thanksgiving books. only child expecting a new sibling and worried she will lose her place with parents visits various families. one an extended family who vacation together every year and see the cousins and their adventures. the other a child who lived with grandparents.

craft was make paper dolls and color your family, I helped some kids with cutting out the dolls and they drew their family with 2 moms and 4 kids.

all harmless to most kids and parents, but for Jill it would send alarms up everywhere

5 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

Edited December 18, 2019 by crazy8s

[Temperance]

I think Mechelle wouldn't be any help. She would probably be trying to make Jill feel guilty and anxious about not being pregnant. That's part of being a champion babymaker and Titus2 woman. (Titus 2:4-5) I have seen this with fundies I know personally where they push the younger generation to have more kids.  I think Mechelle already did this. She went to see Jill and Derick on Mother's Day when Israel was 1 years old. It seemed like after that visit, Jill was really worrying about #2. The people who should make decisions to have another baby are the parents, not the grandparents. 

Anyway I think Jill would have a nerdy slightly awkward person even without the cult. I'm not judging, because I'm like that myself. She seems lonely, and I agree therapy would benefit her. As for the kids, I wonder if part of her struggle was a sister mom, she mostly stayed indoors and did quiet projects with the kids. There were always other people to run around with them and look after them outdoors.  

Edited December 18, 2019 by Temperance

[galaxychaser]

I agree. Other moms might not want to deal with Jill. Yay are you excited? Yay are you the right kind of Christian? Not to mention clinging to anyone who she finds acceptable.

 

[SMama]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

Do something. Be a parent.

Why would they start being parents now?

Edited December 18, 2019 by SMama

[ginger90]

 

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

If the books Jill is reading about boundaries and relationships are due to Jim Bob and Michelle's upbringing and continuing control issues, then any "help" she'd receive from them would be counterproductive unless they recognize and correct their behavior.  I don't see that happening.   Distance is perhaps her best technique at the moment.  Preschool at least a few mornings a week for the boys with Jill going somewhere almost anywhere on her own would be a good step. She used to go to Bible study.  That would be a good thing for her to begin with again if she stopped.

I hear what your saying about JB & M, but Jill working on boundaries would likely be helpful. The personal boundaries we set are our own. They are meant to encourage healthy relationships regardless of the other person. In some instances, like you said, physical distance is helpful and sometimes the absolute correct thing to do, but more often than not the other person's behaviors are irrelevant, hence, why we establish boundaries.

More often than not when we abide by our boundaries we shape and mold other folks' behaviors toward and around us. Most folks have a handful of immovable boundaries and the rest are fluid with flexibility and adaptability.

For someone like Jill who operates very concretely it will take time to not only establish her own boundaries, but to know how to finesse the fluid ones.

And it is never too late to establish boundaries.

[Oldernowiser]

She looks like seven miles of rough road.

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

She looks like seven miles of rough road.

She showed more love eating gummy bears from #besthubbyever.

[GeeGolly]

6 hours ago, Picture It. Sicily said:

That woman needs something outside of that house. A class. A workshop. A woman's group. An hour away from the house, doing something for herself. This situation is a disaster waiting to happen. 

Can I just say that reading this with your avatar in my peripheral vision made the post spectacularly come to life.

[PradaKitty]

Wow!  Looking at that picture, if I didn’t know better I would think Jill was 50 years old! 

Why post such a horrible picture of yourself? Ah, yes... no self awareness. 

[farmgal4]

On 12/16/2019 at 6:42 PM, Jynnan tonnix said:

It's one of the beigest things I think I've ever seen. What's wrong with a big pot of stewed chicken with onions, carrots, celery, peppers, and a can of tomatoes? Some fresh herbs and spices...Colorful, filling and delicious. With rice on the side. Heck, if she got ambitious she could even throw in some Portuguese sausage, some zingy olives, and amp up the pepper a bit.  I doubt it even takes much longer to throw together than this cream of glop. 

Making fresh noodles/dumplings sounds like more work than it's worth when everything else is canned. 

I make dumplings with canned biscuit dough.  Roll them out, cut into strips, drop individual strips into boiling broth and voila!  Quick and easy dumplings, and you truly can’t tell that they’re not made from homemade dough.  Off topic, I’m sorry. 😔

[mynextmistake]

Being an at-home mom can be isolating at the best of times. What helps is to add structure to your day. Even if it’s as simple as “at 10:00 we go to the playground, then home for lunch, then nap, then at 3:00 we go to the grocery store for dinner ingredients.” But Jill has never had any structure, so how would she know to even think about doing this? So instead she floats aimlessly through the day and gets overwhelmed when her failure to plan means she doesn’t get everything done. It’s a recipe for feeling shitty about yourself. 

What strikes me about her instagram is that in most of the pictures, they’re at home. Their neighborhood screams “starter homes” and there must be plenty of other families there, some of which I’m sure are ordinary conservative Christians (which seems to be the direction Derick and Jill are moving), with kids the same age as Sam and Izzy. Why aren’t they ever out playing with those kids? Why aren’t they ever at the playground that is evidentially within walking distance of their house? Why don’t they go back to the library, or to one of the zillions of free Christmas activities they have for kids this time of year? Why are they always just sitting around their house?  Maybe Because when you’re depressed doing even the smallest thing can seem overwhelming? 

I don’t think JB and Michelle are going to be any help here. I wish Derick, or Cathy (who does seem to really care about Jill and the boys) would step in though. Cross Church is huge and it must have a preschool. If not, I’m sure the church office maintains a list of “approved“ Christian preschools and daycares in the area.  Derek and Cathy should suggest that Jill send Sam and Izzy for a half day two or three times a week. Jill can use that time to work a part-time job (I like the idea of Amy’s store, but it’s unclear that the store is doing well enough to add even a part-time employee), see friends, or even just go to Starbucks and sit at a table and relish being surrounded by people over the age of four. She so, so clearly needs a break from what she has. I feel really sorry for her. 

Not to mention what being in preschool would do for Izzy and Sam, because that’s another post. 

[SMama]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

 

No cuddles for Izzy? 

[farmgal4]

7 hours ago, crazy8s said:

I try to picture Jill doing this because she does need it. But how would she relate to those strangers when she has been programmed her entire life that they will cause her to sin, defraud her, are catholic or something and on and on. She was taught to be fearful of everyone all the time.

I had hopes she and Derrick would make friends in the small group from church or that Izzy and Sam would find a friend at the babysitting friday night thing at their church and a play date might happen.

her days wouldn't seem so long if she had things to break up the time. things to look forward to and enjoy.

instead she seems to fixate on the long wait until derrick"s return and how hard it is being a #boymom

I don’t understand why she’s finding it so difficult to be a mom. She was a sister-mom most of her life, so why is raising 2 children so difficult for her?

[JoanArc]

6 hours ago, Liddy52 said:

I know it is easy to armchair quarterback, but it would be nice if Amy could give her a part time job in her store. Not sure exactly what she could do, but Amy would be familiar with her limitations and perhaps more understanding than other employers. It might give her some more self confidence and she could get more exposure.  As she learned new skills, she could take on more responsibility.  know that it is unlikely to happen,  but I think it might be a good option for Jill.

This is the best idea I've seen in a long time and the most feasible. I really, really with it would happen. Given Jill's work ethic, I wouldn't want her as my employee though. Seriously  - she should walk into the nearest Bigot-fil-a and apply - two shifts a week and a world of good for her and her sons.

[Zella]

13 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

I don’t understand why she’s finding it so difficult to be a mom. She was a sister-mom most of her life, so why is raising 2 children so difficult for her?

It really doesn't surprise me.

She still would have had a lot of moral support among her sisters that she seems to lack now. Also, I think being a sister-mom is still different from being a parent. At home as a sister-mom, she still had Jana and her parents if things went nuclear. It's like the difference in being an employee and your own boss. Being the one actually in charge gives you more freedom but shitloads of more responsibility, and that can be liberating but terrifying.

I've also thought for awhile Jill is manifesting signs of depression. When you're depressed, everything seems overwhelming and unmanageable. I think Jill is probably really unhappy in general with her life, her marriage, her children, her situation with her family, and confused about those emotions. I'm sure if you asked her if she was depressed, she would tell you no. But if she was honest and described how she was feeling on a day to day basis, it wouldn't surprise me at all if it sounds like textbook depression.

[mynextmistake]

15 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

I don’t understand why she’s finding it so difficult to be a mom. She was a sister-mom most of her life, so why is raising 2 children so difficult for her?

Because this time they’re hers. Jill was raised to believe that being a mom is the only valid contribution a woman can make to society.  Even though we have seen her take baby steps away from those beliefs, she still probably feels a lot of pressure to raise the perfect kids.  You can tell she is strict with them, because she makes a four-year-old say “yes ma’am“ to his mother.  She still plans to homeschool, even though it should be abundantly clear that she is not cut out for it at all, because homeschooling is what fundie moms do.   In my experience, it’s not the parenting tasks that are overwhelming; it’s the pressure of knowing that every interaction you have with your child can shape their view of the world. When she was the leader of a buddy team, I don’t think she had that pressure because at the end of the day the kids weren’t hers. They were Michelle‘s, and she was the one  Who was ultimately responsible for them. 

[Absolom]

 

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

More often than not when we abide by our boundaries we shape and mold other folks' behaviors toward and around us. Most folks have a handful of immovable boundaries and the rest are fluid with flexibility and adaptability.

I don't think Jill has the emotional maturity and stamina to deal with fluid boundaries.  She may never have that.  I think she's close to being in step one of realizing that she can even set boundaries and that's it both OK and good to do.  

My point was in response to someone who said that JB and Michelle should counsel Jill.  I think that's one of the last things she needs.  

Edited December 19, 2019 by Absolom

[GeeGolly]

8 minutes ago, Absolom said:

 

I don't think Jill has the emotional maturity and stamina to deal with fluid boundaries.  She may never have that.  I think she's close to being in step one of realizing that she can even set boundaries and that's it both OK and good to do.  

My point was in response to someone who said that JB and Michelle should counsel Jill.  I think that's one of the last things she needs.  

Oh my. I agree. JB & M have done enough 'counselling' with their children. Run, Jill, run.

[cmr2014]

6 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

I don’t understand why she’s finding it so difficult to be a mom. She was a sister-mom most of her life, so why is raising 2 children so difficult for her?

I was a sister-mom, and I can tell you that they're not the same thing at all. When I was a teenager, I thought I was a great sister-mom, and I thought I wanted to have a dozen children of my own.

In real life, though, I never had any kids. When I was younger, I was too exhausted - like PTSD. I wasn't interested in taking on that level of responsibility after finally managing to off-load it. As I got older, I thought about it, but was never committed enough to actually go through with marriage and children.

I'm sure Jill's experience doesn't parallel my own, but there are similarities. Stresses that we live with as children color our adult lives -- even when we think we've dealt with them. 

Under the best of circumstances, Jill would probably have been better off waiting to have children of her own -- like maybe 10 years. On top of that, she's had to deal with huge seismic, mind-blowing revelations: the sexual abuse scandal went public; the mate that God chose for her wasn't a perfect match; God didn't deliver her perfect child-bearing experiences; she doesn't especially enjoy being a wife and SAHM; etc. We make fun of these things, but they must have rocked her world.

Being a sister-mom had significant and long lasting effects on me, and it did on my siblings as well. All of that "pulling together to make a large family work" bs that they sold on xx Kids and Counting was just that -- bs. All of the sister-moms have scars from having to abandon their own childhoods to take care of siblings, and the younger siblings bear even more significant scars from never receiving any parental love and attention.

[all fall down]

7 hours ago, Zella said:

I've also thought for awhile Jill is manifesting signs of depression. When you're depressed, everything seems overwhelming and unmanageable. I think Jill is probably really unhappy in general with her life, her marriage, her children, her situation with her family, and confused about those emotions. I'm sure if you asked her if she was depressed, she would tell you no. But if she was honest and described how she was feeling on a day to day basis, it wouldn't surprise me at all if it sounds like textbook depression.

Agree with this so much, and it's sad because they were raised to believe that all you need to be happy is loads of kids and Jesus. Clearly that's not working out for her, and she wasn't given the tools to ask for help or to even know where to start. 

I really think she is someone who could benefit from therapy, from a real therapist, not a church elder. Not that they can't help, I just think Jill needs someone who is going to give her honesty, not just say to pray more. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by christine falls

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, christine falls said:

Agree with this so much, and it's sad because they were raised to believe that all you need to be happy is loads of kids and Jesus. Clearly that's not working out for her, and she wasn't given the tools to ask for help or to even know where to start. 

I really think she is someone who could benefit from therapy, from a real therapist, not a church elder. Not that they can't help, I just think Jill needs someone who is going to give her honestly, not just say to pray more. 

Yes, she really does need therapy and not some asshole who tells her that she's unhappy because she needs more Jesus. I have been on the receiving end of that myself, and it's like it doesn't compute for them that you can be a good Christian and still be depressed through no fault of your own. Sadly, I am sure Jill would be incredibly suspicious of a real therapist. 😞 

[Spencer Hastings]

56 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I was a sister-mom, and I can tell you that they're not the same thing at all. When I was a teenager, I thought I was a great sister-mom, and I thought I wanted to have a dozen children of my own.

In real life, though, I never had any kids. When I was younger, I was too exhausted - like PTSD. I wasn't interested in taking on that level of responsibility after finally managing to off-load it. As I got older, I thought about it, but was never committed enough to actually go through with marriage and children.

I'm sure Jill's experience doesn't parallel my own, but there are similarities. Stresses that we live with as children color our adult lives -- even when we think we've dealt with them. 

Under the best of circumstances, Jill would probably have been better off waiting to have children of her own -- like maybe 10 years. On top of that, she's had to deal with huge seismic, mind-blowing revelations: the sexual abuse scandal went public; the mate that God chose for her wasn't a perfect match; God didn't deliver her perfect child-bearing experiences; she doesn't especially enjoy being a wife and SAHM; etc. We make fun of these things, but they must have rocked her world.

Being a sister-mom had significant and long lasting effects on me, and it did on my siblings as well. All of that "pulling together to make a large family work" bs that they sold on xx Kids and Counting was just that -- bs. All of the sister-moms have scars from having to abandon their own childhoods to take care of siblings, and the younger siblings bear even more significant scars from never receiving any parental love and attention.

Excellent post.  I’ve spoken a little on here about my own experiences as a sister mom. My parents had to work a lot when I was younger, so I basically gave up my jr. high and high school years to raise my siblings.  Leaving for college was tough on all of us, to the point that no matter what I was doing, I’d call home every single night.  You think Jennifer was a wreck during Jill’s wedding?  That was nothing compared to my sister when I left home.  I’m in my early 30s and my siblings are in their 20s, but they still call me when things go awry.  I’m their emergency contact for pretty much everything.   My parents are great and did what they had to do, but my siblings absolutely see me as the one who will fix things.  

Sister moms grow up and still feel the weight of the world on their shoulders. To this day I feel like I’ve pretty much raised my kids, and I’m not really sure what I would do with kids of my own.  I don’t need a second set of kids while I’m trying to finally figure out who I am and have some freedom that I missed when I was younger. This is where I think Jill went left when she could’ve gone right.

If you spent your childhood being responsible for everyone else, you need to be able to unload and figure out what you want. I’m just beyond that at this point in my life, and I can see Jill feeling the same way if she’d been given the chance to wait before having kids.  She didn’t get a chance to find out who she was outside of being a sister mom or get a chance to breathe really.   I don’t doubt that she loves her kids and I don’t doubt that she wanted to be a mom.  But she needed a chance to detox first and that’s the difference between being a great sister-mom and an overwhelmed mother.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Spencer Hastings

[Absolom]

9 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

All of that "pulling together to make a large family work" bs that they sold on xx Kids and Counting was just that -- bs. All of the sister-moms have scars from having to abandon their own childhoods to take care of siblings, and the younger siblings bear even more significant scars from never receiving any parental love and attention.

Out of all the older daughters from large families I have known personally, here known as sister moms, they have had at the most two children.  Several had one or none.  They ALL had the scars you speak about from giving up their own childhoods to raise the family.  Most of them say they've had their fill of diapers, toilet training, tons of laundry, etc.  The only one I know who had two kids came from a smaller size large family and waited until she was in her mid to late 30s to have children.  As you say giving her time to heal and deal with the past.  

I'm glad to see that for whatever reason Jill and Derrick aren't having a baby a year and don't appear to even consider doing that.  I think Derrick has brought in some form of birth control just as I've said that Jeremy would since even before that wedding.  I think Derrick was shell shocked by just how quickly Jill conceived and if he had it to do over they would have waited a couple of years to start a family.  I don't think either Derrick or Jill has what it takes to raise more than three children and that's pushing it.  Perhaps one or both of them have recognized that currently they're maxed out at two and will not have any more.  Jill was not prepared for life and that seems her most crushing burden.  While she could physically feed, clothe, and semi-regularly bathe several children, she doesn't have the skills to live on her own, know what the children need developmentally, or what she needs to have the children experience and learn to grow up to be mature human beings.

[gonecrackers]

I still get the feeling if Jill had had two successful home births she'd be willing to continue pumping them out on a regular basis. Both her births were traumatic, & something serious happened with Sam, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were done. They'll probably get the "lacking faith" speech, but seem to be pulling away so may not fall into that BS.

[Nysha]

I wonder if the reason Jessa and Jinger appear to be more attentive and loving mothers is because they weren't as emotionally invested in their buddies. They both semi-resented having to raise them and only did what they were required to do. Jill is very emotionally needy, actually loved her buddies as a quasi-parent and thought she would feel the same way about her own children. Instead, she wants and expects her husband to meet her emotional needs, which is normal. Unfortunately, this means she doesn't need Israel and Sam to fulfill those emotional needs and she doesn't have the emotional capacity to realize that it's her responsibility as their mother to meet their needs no matter what. Her parents didn't do that for her and Derick seems to be a pretty harsh disciplinarian, at least to Israel.

[Madtown]

17 hours ago, SMama said:

No cuddles for Izzy? 

I was going to say the same thing.

I noticed Jill responded to a comment that must've asked about her hair. She said she washes it once a week and dry shampoos it the other days.

[SMama]

The Duggars are not known for their impeccable hygiene. IIRC before the TTH Michelle stated they used the same bath water for all the kids. They would bathe them from cleanest to dirtiest. It was allegedly done to save money on their water bill. It still makes my stomach queasy thinking about it.

[Picture It. Sicily]

1 hour ago, Madtown said:

I was going to say the same thing.

I noticed Jill responded to a comment that must've asked about her hair. She said she washes it once a week and dry shampoos it the other days.

That's all her parents could be bothered to do for her. She doesn't know she has the right to treat herself better. The neglect is beyond belief with her scumbag parents. I fucking hate them.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

The Duggars are not known for their impeccable hygiene. IIRC before the TTH Michelle stated they used the same bath water for all the kids. They would bathe them from cleanest to dirtiest. It was allegedly done to save money on their water bill. It still makes my stomach queasy thinking about it.

Saving money on the water bill or MIchelle living out her Little House on the Prairie fantasy?  

[Oldernowiser]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

The Duggars are not known for their impeccable hygiene. IIRC before the TTH Michelle stated they used the same bath water for all the kids. They would bathe them from cleanest to dirtiest. It was allegedly done to save money on their water bill. It still makes my stomach queasy thinking about it.

If only I had read this before I ate the giant cookie...🤮

[SMama]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Saving money on the water bill or MIchelle living out her Little House on the Prairie fantasy?  

Or Michelle’s laziness? If you can’t afford to bathe your kids properly then stop the Jesus Pez dispenser.

Maybe I’m hypersensitive to this because SGirl loves baths. She has swim practice from 6:00 to 7:15 PM.  It’s a 30 minute drive home and her bath is a treat after a long day. She has her Bluetooth speaker in her bathroom (only child at home so she gets her own bathroom) and just relaxes to very loud music. Kids 🙄

The thought of SGirl stepping into used bath water gives me the creeps. More so because JB spent $250,000 on a vain senate campaign. At the time they were living in a 3 bedroom house. The family was eating food left on their doorstep. Add to that shit show a dozen or more kids using the same bath water. Just because JB flipped a penny a few times and Jesus told him to run an impossible race to win.

Sorry, their blatant disregard for their “blessings” well being really sets me off. 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by SMama

[galaxychaser]

Oof just as I thought Jill’s hair stinks. Let’s hope she washes her pits and privates more than once a week.

[BigBingerBro]

3 hours ago, SMama said:

The Duggars are not known for their impeccable hygiene. IIRC before the TTH Michelle stated they used the same bath water for all the kids. They would bathe them from cleanest to dirtiest. It was allegedly done to save money on their water bill. It still makes my stomach queasy thinking about it.

I remember that a bit differently.  I thought it was said that with so many kids, they would run out of hot water with so many showers, so the dirtiest went first.  I seem to remember one of the Jslaves telling this.  I could be totally wrong though.

[Scarlett45]

18 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

I remember that a bit differently.  I thought it was said that with so many kids, they would run out of hot water with so many showers, so the dirtiest went first.  I seem to remember one of the Jslaves telling this.  I could be totally wrong though.

I remember it that way too, but I think that was for the older kids. For the little kids (6 and under) they reused bath water. 

[SMama]

My recollection is from reading their books. Sorry if I’m wrong, but they did reuse bath water, also admitted the older kids (plus JB & M) did not bathe daily.

44 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

I remember that a bit differently.  I thought it was said that with so many kids, they would run out of hot water with so many showers, so the dirtiest went first.  I seem to remember one of the Jslaves telling this.  I could be totally wrong though.

If the dirtiest ones went in first then I’m really for sorry for the clean ones. It doesn’t add up for me. Luckily not my circus, not my monkeys.

[GeeGolly]

I think they said half the kids bathed/showered at night and the other half bathed/showered in the morning due to hot water issues. And yes they did reuse the bath water, but not for the entire bunch.

I'm one of four kids, born within 6 years and on our scheduled baths nights my mom bathed at least two of us and sometimes the four of us in the same bath water after we had grown too old to share a bath. And she, too, started with the cleanest kid. This was also before my parents redid the bathroom and replaced our old claw foot tub with a shower/tub.

With that said, we washed up in between bath nights and were also bathed, individually, 'as needed'.

Honestly, I think my mom did it that way to keep her sanity.

[SMama]

47 minutes ago, SMama said:

My recollection is from reading their books. Sorry if I’m wrong, but they did reuse bath water, also admitted the older kids (plus JB & M) did not bathe daily.

If the dirtiest ones went in first then I’m really sorry for the clean ones. It doesn’t add up for me. Luckily not my circus, not my monkeys.