Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[emmawoodhouse]

10 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

You're not expecting Josie to be married and pregnant by then?

If Smuggar gets 8 years or more, Josie should be outta there. But this judge is known to go on the lesser side, so she still might be in her last year at the DRT if he's only in for 6.

[Quilt Fairy]

22 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

You're not expecting Josie to be married and pregnant by then?

Josie seems like Michelle's special snowflake.  It would not surprise me if she did a Jana. 

[GeeGolly]

The law says can't reside where kids are homeschooled. Does that mean the offender can't visit?  If its "living with" only, they'll just have Josh sleep at the TTH or have the minor kids sleep at the TTH.

[emmawoodhouse]

8 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

The law says can't reside where kids are homeschooled. Does that mean the offender can't visit?  If its "living with" only, they'll just have Josh sleep at the TTH or have the minor kids sleep at the TTH.

They're safe if he stays in the warehouse if the kids are homeschooled at the TTH. The kids wouldn't reside where they would be schooled. I'm sure this is how they'll skirt the law.

[Ljohnson1987]

They'll find a way around the law. It's what Duggar's do best. 

[ginger90]

Is the address for both the same?

[Absolom]

Maybe Jim Bob can just subdivide another apartment out of the warehouse for Josh and label Anna's section xxxA and Josh's xxxB.  That seems like something he would do.

[emmawoodhouse]

20 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Is the address for both the same?

Yes, but I think they can get away with it with a home visit from his parole officer. Kids are going to be crawling around the TTH for the next what, 25 years?

[SMama]

13 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Maybe Jim Bob can just subdivide another apartment out of the warehouse for Josh and label Anna's section xxxA and Josh's xxxB.  That seems like something he would do.

If he even thinks about it he is more evil than I thought. What a shitty thing to do to the so called blessings. Cover for a hideous sex offender while providing a buffet of innocents. 

[Albanyguy]

2 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Josie seems like Michelle's special snowflake.  It would not surprise me if she did a Jana. 

You could be right. Michelle seems to be heavily invested in keeping Josie a perpetual baby.

[lascuba]

 

18 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

The law says can't reside where kids are homeschooled. Does that mean the offender can't visit?  If its "living with" only, they'll just have Josh sleep at the TTH or have the minor kids sleep at the TTH.

I wonder if they have Josh's official address be the TTH but he'll be sleeping in whatever home his wife and kids are. It's a risk, but it's not like anyone is his life is going to report him. Unless surprise middle of the night inspections are a thing, I can see them getting pretty comfortable in that regard.

Though it would be fascinating if they choose to put the M kids in public school just so Josh can live in the house. On the one hand, they'd get a shot at a real education; on the other, it would mean Anna letting go of deeply held convictions to have her man by her side.

 

 

[Nysha]

18 hours ago, SMama said:

If he even thinks about it he is more evil than I thought. What a shitty thing to do to the so called blessings. Cover for a hideous sex offender while providing a buffet of innocents. 

JB has been covering up for his hideous sex offender golden child since he found out FF was abusing his sisters. There is no way he's going to protect his grandchildren any better than he protected his own children.

I don't think there is a chance in hades that Anna will ever put her children in public school without a court order. But, I do think FF is smart enough to realize he can end up living apart from his wife & children by insisting that he doesn't want to end up back in prison for violating the homeschool rule and he doesn't want his innocent children exposed to the wicked world of public/private school. He could end up in a small travel trailer that is parked in the back of the warehouse property or even another home. 

[iwantcookies]

I just want to know his sentence already! 

[SusanM]

13 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

I just want to know his sentence already! 

Speaking of which, is it a good sign that things have gotten quiet?  I mean if anyone was seriously going to entertain grounds for a dismissal or a retrial wouldn't we have heard by now?

[emmawoodhouse]

1 minute ago, SusanM said:

Speaking of which, is it a good sign that things have gotten quiet?  I mean if anyone was seriously going to entertain grounds for a dismissal or a retrial wouldn't we have heard by now?

Pretty sure Gelfand filed for a retrial. I never heard whether that was ruled upon.

[Spazamanaz]

When was/is his court date to be sentenced? 

[ginger90]

I copied this when I read it, but forgot to copy where it came from. I think FOX, ? It was just a couple of days ago.

 

 “The last activity by either side in the case took place on March 24, when the court granted a defense request to postpone the sentencing date, which had been scheduled for April 5.

The defense filed a motion to continue on March 18. The filing stated that the delay would “provide additional time to pursue additional information and documentation,” and added that COVID-19 precautions had made it “more difficult scheduling meetings with Duggar than during ordinary times,” and that scheduling issues from unrelated cases “would be more easily resolved” for the defense if the delay was granted.

On that same date, the government submitted a final presentence investigation report as well as a sentencing recommendation. Those two documents were sealed by the court and no details about their contents are available. The investigation report contained two addenda, one of which was an impact statement from an unknown victim.”

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by ginger90

[emmawoodhouse]

1 hour ago, Spazamanaz said:

When was/is his court date to be sentenced? 

May 25

[DXD526]

It was exactly one year ago today, on April 29, 2021, that the feds showed up at that illustrious AR car dealership and slapped the cuffs on Joshie (aka FF) "Are you here about child porn?" Duggs. Is anyone celebrating the anniversary?

[sagittarius sue]

2 hours ago, DXD526 said:

It was exactly one year ago today, on April 29, 2021, that the feds showed up at that illustrious AR car dealership and slapped the cuffs on Joshie (aka FF) "Are you here about child porn?" Duggs. Is anyone celebrating the anniversary?

I just poured a glass of wine.  I will drink it in honor of his arrest.

[SMama]

5 hours ago, DXD526 said:

It was exactly one year ago today, on April 29, 2021, that the feds showed up at that illustrious AR car dealership and slapped the cuffs on Joshie (aka FF) "Are you here about child porn?" Duggs. Is anyone celebrating the anniversary?

I though the FF turned himself in. 

[emmawoodhouse]

6 minutes ago, SMama said:

I though the FF turned himself in. 

As I remember it, the cops called them in advance to say they were going to arrest him. Call like maybe the police came to the gate and were denied entrance. Smuganna went together to the police department for the official arrest.

[Zella]

Yeah the raid where he uttered the infamous phrase "Has someone been downloading child porn?" was actually in November 2019, and he was not arrested that day, as far as I know. He was finally booked into jail in April 2021 after coming in voluntarily. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Zella

[winsomeone]

Is the sentencing this month?

[SMama]

2 minutes ago, winsomeone said:

Is the sentencing this month?

I think it’s 5/25, someone please correct me if I’m wrong.

[GeeGolly]

I know Josh was found guilty. I know there are sentencing guidelines and I know Judges also have discretion.

I am a bit concerned he'll get the low end because he's a white dude.

Recently a college age guy sexually assaulted a young woman. He sexually assaulted another woman while wearing an ankle monitor. The first young lady took her own life, so that case was dropped and the dude got probation for the second assault. His family is now harassing the parents of the first woman, asking them to stop talking about their son and ruining his future.

IMO, white dudes charged with sexual crimes get off easier than POC charged with theft and/or possession. 

I hope the sentencing Gods give the Family Felon the longest time possible.

[sagittarius sue]

Before FF's trial started I did a little research on Judge Brooks, and I was pleased with what I found.  I described him in a post as a straight-shooter, and felt he did an excellent job with the trial.  I think he'll come up with a fair and just sentence.

[iwantcookies]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I know Josh was found guilty. I know there are sentencing guidelines and I know Judges also have discretion.

I am a bit concerned he'll get the low end because he's a white dude.

Recently a college age guy sexually assaulted a young woman. He sexually assaulted another woman while wearing an ankle monitor. The first young lady took her own life, so that case was dropped and the dude got probation for the second assault. His family is now harassing the parents of the first woman, asking them to stop talking about their son and ruining his future.

IMO, white dudes charged with sexual crimes get off easier than POC charged with theft and/or possession. 

I hope the sentencing Gods give the Family Felon the longest time possible.

I read about that case. 

Let’s hope Josh gets a longer sentence than that.

[Tikichick]

On 4/30/2022 at 1:34 AM, Zella said:

Yeah the raid where he uttered the infamous phrase "Has someone been downloading child porn?" was actually in November 2019, and he was not arrested that day, as far as I know. He was finally booked into jail in April 2021 after coming in voluntarily. 

Thank you.  I know the pandemic has really stretched the parameters of my ability to keep a handle on the concept of time, but I was really wondering just how bad I've gotten when I read the post stating the raid was in April of 2021. 

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I know Josh was found guilty. I know there are sentencing guidelines and I know Judges also have discretion.

I am a bit concerned he'll get the low end because he's a white dude.

Recently a college age guy sexually assaulted a young woman. He sexually assaulted another woman while wearing an ankle monitor. The first young lady took her own life, so that case was dropped and the dude got probation for the second assault. His family is now harassing the parents of the first woman, asking them to stop talking about their son and ruining his future.

IMO, white dudes charged with sexual crimes get off easier than POC charged with theft and/or possession. 

I hope the sentencing Gods give the Family Felon the longest time possible.

While this country has an awful long road to go toward addressing racial inequalities, my experience of observing more than a decade and a half of the criminal justice system has shown me that judges more often than not tend to take a dim view when there are child victims involved, even when the perpetrator is a white dude.   I certainly hope that Josh has no one but family to rely on for tea and sympathy on his behalf.   I think the "Great Wellspring of Duggar Empathy and Compassion" should be more than adequate for his needs -- and well deserved to boot.   I highly doubt he'll need a life preserver to save himself from the deluge.  

[Almost 3000]

Sentencing is in 19 days and counting.

[winsomeone]

I sure hope the amount of time Josh gets doesn't disappoint us all.

[hathorlive]

On 5/6/2022 at 10:32 AM, GeeGolly said:

I know Josh was found guilty. I know there are sentencing guidelines and I know Judges also have discretion.

I am a bit concerned he'll get the low end because he's a white dude.

Recently a college age guy sexually assaulted a young woman. He sexually assaulted another woman while wearing an ankle monitor. The first young lady took her own life, so that case was dropped and the dude got probation for the second assault. His family is now harassing the parents of the first woman, asking them to stop talking about their son and ruining his future.

This judge doesn't care about who Josh is.  He doesn't care that Josh is a white Christian.  Based on the sentences he's given out historically for this same crime (to other white Christian dudes from that part of Arkansas) he's going to get a sentence between 8 and 13 years.  13 years if the judge is disgusted with Josh's sexual abuse of his sisters.  Based on the rulings the judge has issued, he is annoyed with the entire freaking Duggar family, especially Josh and JB.  He isn't getting off with a 5 year minimum mandatory sentence.  The last case I had with CP, the judge gave the defendant an extra 3 years based on the chat transcripts I recovered, where he talked about how to groom parents into letting you have access to their kids.  The judge said if he hadn't already abused a child, he was thinking and plotting ways to abuse a child.  So judges are allowed to take things into consideration.  And since the judge allowed the sexual abuse of his sisters to be brought up in court, he thinks that it's important for people to know Josh has already abused real life victims.

I don't think Josh will get more than 13 years.  I'll be doing backflips if he gets more.   A great sentence is 10 years.  Anything more is awesome. 

Edited May 8, 2022 by hathorlive

[emmawoodhouse]

Final court docs are due this Wednesday, two weeks ahead of sentencing. Hopefully, these aren't under seal and we can see how each side is proceeding ahead of D-Day.

Edited May 7, 2022 by emmawoodhouse

[floridamom]

My opinion is that Anna is going to lose her mind when she hears the sentence bestowed on Joshua. I'm sure she will be there. 

[farmgal4]

30 minutes ago, floridamom said:

My opinion is that Anna is going to lose her mind when she hears the sentence bestowed on Joshua. I'm sure she will be there. 

I agree with you.  She’ll have a complete meltdown.

[GeeGolly]

I wonder if Anna will rage rant on IG. Maybe she'll finish the "rest of the story". 

[merylinkid]

Anna is convinced the judge is going to say "there has been some terrible misunderstanding, you are free to go."   Because no way, her husband, JOSH DUGGAR can go to jail.   She is going to be mighty surprised when he gets AT LEAST the mandatory miniumum of 5.

[Albanyguy]

17 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

I agree with you.  She’ll have a complete meltdown.

I think that both she and Michelle are deluding themselves into thinking that Josh will get off with an unrealistically light sentence and are not at all prepared for what’s really likely to happen. They may not even realize or acknowledge that there’s a mandatory minimum sentence that the judge can’t overrule. There will be meltdowns when Anna hears the sentence in court and when the news is brought home to Michelle. 

Jim Bob probably has a more realistic grasp of the situation and is probably expecting the worst (I strongly suspect that the wimmenfolk have been excluded from serious discussions about the case). I wonder if he’s now trying to prepare them for what’s going to happen or if he’s encouraging their delusions because it makes life easier in the short term. 
 

 

[GeeGolly]

I think JB & M are well aware Josh's sentence will be more than a couple years. IMO, only Anna is still hanging out in the land of hope and delusion.

I do feel bad for the M & Ms, who surely love their dad and will miss him. I also feel bad for any child who has a criminal for a parent, as it impacts their entire life. 

[beckie]

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I think JB & M are well aware Josh's sentence will be more than a couple years. IMO, only Anna is still hanging out in the land of hope and delusion.

I do feel bad for the M & Ms, who surely love their dad and will miss him. I also feel bad for any child who has a criminal for a parent, as it impacts their entire life. 

Josh has been "away" for a while now. I wonder what they are telling his kids? I hope they aren't telling them that he'll be back soon.

[emmawoodhouse]

The younger daughters only lived with Smuggar for a very short time they wouldn't even remember, or in Jordyn and Josie's cases, not at all (Meech was pregnant with Jordyn when Smugganna got married). 

I doubt they ask where Josh is, so it's plausible that they know nothing more than the Ms.

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

The younger daughters only lived with Smuggar for a very short time they wouldn't even remember, or in Jordyn and Josie's cases, not at all (Meech was pregnant with Jordyn when Smugganna got married). 

I doubt they ask where Josh is, so it's plausible that they know nothing more than the Ms.

Except he has lived in their backyard for the past few years, so I'm guessing he's been a familiar face at the TTH.

Oops - I mean front yard - I think.

Edited May 8, 2022 by GeeGolly

[emmawoodhouse]

But I imagine he didn't interact with his younger sisters who were likely doing household chores like laundry, cleaning, and cooking. He probably hung with whatever howlers were hanging around, pretty much ignoring the girls. 

[hathorlive]

41 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

The youngest of the Duggar 19 is 10, so the youngers ones aren't all that young. And I for one, have always believed Michelle is the brains of the family and I'm thinking she is not in denial.

Kids talk.  Even young kids talk.  I have no doubt that kids that don't have TV in the house listen closely to parents who discuss things.  And I'm pretty sure there have been some heated, loud conversations at the big house.   At some point, someone will tell the M kids or they will see a newspaper article or overhear someone at church discussing it.  And it will not be a good situation.  Anna needs to be as honest as possible with respect to their ages.  

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Except he has lived in their backyard for the past few years, so I'm guessing he's been a familiar face at the TTH.

Oops - I mean front yard - I think.

Exactly.  You know the FF has been up at the big house, expecting someone to make him breakfast or lunch or whatever.  And then he's suddenly gone.  But he's living with some people on the edge of town, and mom goes over there to stay with him all the time, that's why the M kids have to have meals at the big house.  Those kids are talking and more importantly, listening.

[quarks]

I'm with hathorlive. Kids notice things. And they talk. And these particular kids have frequently been spotted in a large house that has internet access and plenty of computers/tablets/phones.  And speaking of that house, at least two adults who are apparently still living there have indicated that they agree with the verdict. (Jason and James).

I'd like to think that at least one adult in that group - Abbie, maybe? Katey? Josiah?  - has the common sense to realize that it is in everyone's best interest, but especially in the interests of the M kids, to be told an age-appropriate version of what's happening. Not necessarily the details, but something. Because if not, I think the M kids are going to be dealing with a number of trust and anger issues as adults.

Unfortunately, most of these people don't seem to have a lot of common sense. 

[GeeGolly]

What tends to happen in hush-hush situations is kids make up their own stories. And because they're kids the stories revolve around themselves and unusually include self blame. Depending on what they hear (and don't hear), as well as their age, it could be as simple as, Daddy's gone because I don't obey instantly. Or as complicated as, Daddy and mommy fight over daddy watching his phone. I always ask to watch mommy's phone. I hope the bad police won't make me go away too.

In a situation like Josh's there's so many nuances that even well informed parents have a zillion ways to screw this up. The kids don't need to know the exact reason Josh is gone. The kids don't need to be told their dad is a big bad man that did horrible things - it could be as simple as daddy made an adult mistake and is facing an adult punishment or even that someone thinks daddy made an adult mistake and until they figure things out he'll be gone for a while. But really, the kids just need to know they're not the reason he his gone and that they can ask questions when questions come up. 

 

 

[ginger90]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

But really, the kids just need to know they're not the reason

Sadly, this doesn’t seem to be the way things are handled in this family. 

[Scarlett45]

Do not speculate on the identity of Josh's victims, this includes the M children. This has been forum policy long before the 2021 arrest. The only discussion of victims that is allowed here, is what any now adult victim has chosen to disclose. 

There is a zero tolerance policy for this- violators will be warned at minimum. As the sentencing approaches I ask everyone to be mindful. 

[LilyD]

On 5/8/2022 at 2:42 PM, farmgal4 said:

I agree with you.  She’ll have a complete meltdown.

A catatonic state seems more likely than a melt-down in my opinion. The shock will be so big that she’ll completely shut down.