Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[3 is enough]

Frenchtoast, I have edited my post after reading yours.  Thank you.

[Darknight]

Anna will never leave. She's too invested in gothard

[awaken]

I can't believe how upset I am about people I don't even know. I have a sick feeling in my stomach. As much as I disliked the way Jim Bob and Michelle parent their kids, I never expected it to be this bad. Not just covering up for Josh, but beating the kids with metal rods?

I can't believe their hypocrisy and naivete. How dare they protest stores selling liquor and transgender people using restrooms while they have all these skeletons in their closets? Did they really believe that no one would ever find out? And I can't even begin to express my feelings about ho they treated the girls. These people are absolutely VILE.

Josh probably is a suicide risk right now. He will never get another job that pays anywhere close to what he made at the FRC. He is an uneducated disgraced reality personality who will carry the stigma of incest and pedophilia for the rest of his life. How can he support Anna and the kids? And no way she knew the whole story before she married him.

While I do hope Jim Bob and Michelle lose the show and all of their speaking engagements, the ones who will suffer will be the kids. They never asked for any of this. Will Jana, Jinger, and Joy be able to find husbands now? (assuming that's what they want, of course) The howlers and lost girls are already neglected and woefully under educated. If they disappear from public view will anything change? Or will it just get worse?

This whole situation is just tragic.

You summed up my thoughts exactly.

The wash post article mentions Josh being in a counseling program for several months. The Vista program or something. Is that not legit?

I am worried that he's a suicide risk. I am worried for Anna and her life crashing down around her.

[natyxg]

I think we'll hear nothing but crickets for the entire summer. They'll hope this will all blow over.

 I'm mostly curious about what TLC will do. What the Duggars do it's pretty predictable. They will play the whole "people make mistakes, God forgives" card, as they have already started doing, and will probably concentrate in keeping the audience they are most likely to keep, the fundies who will swallow up the whole "people make mistakes, God forgives" narrative and may even praise Josh for admitting his mistakes and asking forgiveness. I think TLC will cancel, but I'm waiting for it.

[TheDoctorsCompanio]

The interview episode is on right now.

[ChicksDigScars]

Wow. If this sit down interview episode with the Duggars wasn't awkward before, it's EXCRUCIATINGLY and PAINFULLY awkward, now,  I can't believe that TLC didn't replace this episode with another more innocuous (and Smuggar free) episode. 

 

Michelle talking mowing in the bikini and "causing the man across the street to look." Clearly, lust is all a woman's fault. 

 

Poor Jana, Jill, Jessa, Jinger, Joy and Amy. They clearly caused Josh to do what he did. [extreme sarcasm]  He must have had a prairie dress fetish. 

 

I want to personally apologize for snarking on Jill in that regard, actually.

 

You guys know that I was talking about the Duggars calling Jill that, not anyone here, right? Just checking.

Edited May 22, 2015 by ChicksDigScars

[neural-plasticity]

We've already seen that Jim Bob tried to sweep it under the rug when it happened. He put it off by not legitimately reporting it until he absolutely had to. He made it sound like, in the report, that Josh got the help and was better (even though Michelle reported something differently). I wouldn't be surprised if he told his daughters to say everything was okay, they felt safe around Josh, and to minimize the scope of the situation. He sure as heck won't come out now and admit anything wrong that he already hasn't said.

As for Anna leaving Josh, I really don't think that's going to happen. Not with their culture they're raised in. The women are expected to stay with the men no matter what (like others have mentioned, I'm sure when {if} she was told before they married, it was turned into how josh is a man and can't resist those man urges so it wasn't his fault... she probably still believes that). Also, she literally has no other purpose in life (because of how she was raised) than to marry and have kids. She couldn't support herself and four children (not like Josh could do much better now). It's a sad situation. It's sad that it happened, that it wasn't resolved properly, and it's sad for those who were affected.

[Hpmec]

Along with his job, Josh most likely lost his health insurance for himself and his growing family, including his pregnant wife. Neither COBRA nor Obamacare will be cheap for a family of 5 -- soon to be 6. I've posted before that if the whole tv thing fell apart, the Duggars would be in a world of hurt. They've come to rely on TLC, and without it, they're screwed. I don't see any way TLC can keep them on the air. I suspect they'll be back on the road in the stink bus seeking forgiveness and "love offerings" before long.

I haven't seen too much comment about the mention in the police report that the children were spanked with a rod. That is abuse, too.

It's really no wonder there isn't much laughter in that home. These revelations make it sound like a house of horrors.

[humbleopinion]

They cancelled Honey Boo Boo so if they keep the Duggars on then TLC has some fancy explaining to do.....

[NikSac]

This is all just so upsetting. I just re-read the police report and a few things stuck out to me that I hadn't noticed before:

 

- [edited to take out reference to letter writer being a "he" because I swore I saw it but now I can't find it again]

 

- Josh was reading a raccoon book called "King Aaron" to one of the girls (I assume it's a girl since she was wearing a dress). Sounds like a book for a young/youngish child. She pulled her dress up because it had a hole in it, had pants on under the dress, and Josh then pulled her pants down and touched her.

 

- A couple of the kids reference Grandfather Roark living with them.

 

- One of them who was not abused but knew about it I am assuming is a boy just based on how stereotypical their kids' interests are. He apparently likes to work on cars, and he also trained their dog. He's got to be one of the older kids because the interviewer asked if he (again assuming here that it's a he) had a driver's license.  In this same interview they seem to be asking if Josh is left alone with / babysits the kids and he said sometimes for short time periods. There seems to be reference to another family in here, too.

 

- The one who referenced the "pee pee holder" said they weren't touched except when they got spanked by their mom or dad (yes, with a rod).

 

- The one from the couch was sleeping over at the Duggars' place but wasn't one of the Duggar kids. It looks like she declined to be interviewed?  Also just to clarify the blanket thing, he was taking the blanket OFF of her, not putting it on her.

 

Edited to add one more:

- Supposedly the detective filled out a Family In Needs of Services (FINS) affidavit and referred it to the FINS office to have a case opened. Wonder what ever happened with that?

Edited May 22, 2015 by NikSac

[CarolMK]

I am really wondering how on earth this story was never made public before. Wow, it took 9 years for this to surface? And I wonder who it was that informed InTouch magazine about it, and how the police report was found. I guess we will never know.

[JoanArc]

 

I suspect they'll be back on the road in the stink bus seeking forgiveness and "love offerings" before long.

Half a tank of gas for the stink bus is $500 in diesel. They'll need to sell that thing before too long.

 

Remember that speaking event Jill was bringing the baby to their summer? Josh was scheduled to speak there too. Lets see if any Duggar makes it. I think not.

 

 

I haven't seen too much comment about the mention in the police report that the children were spanked with a rod. That is abuse, too.

Not defending it AT ALL, but I think Rod = something else, not a literal rod. its a bible word. Probably Train up a child plumbing line. Still, the Duggars are abusive assholes.

Edited May 22, 2015 by JoanArc

[pinkelephant3]

First I want to preface this by saying I in no way condone what happened. I would also like to say that I am a foster care case worker and have worked with many teen sexual offenders and quite a few have grown up and not reoffended and lead normal productive lives. Who knows what if any type of treatment josh got but he may no longer have those thoughts or perversions.

[dillpickles]

They cancelled Honey Boo Boo so if they keep the Duggars on then TLC has some fancy explaining to do.....

and they better do it fast. I know the Duggars are a cash cow, but my god if this show ain't off the air I'll go hunt the Duggars down myself.

ALL ABOARD THE FREE JINGER EXPRESS!

But, i think it makes way more sense, his unease. He knew this would come out eventually, I'm starting to feel like someone threatened to reveal him, and he's been stress eating and looking not too happy about having even more kids to support.

[Kcat1971]

I've seen a couple of posts that say things like "we now know..."  so I want to point something out.   There is not much that we know.  Josh's resignation and statement do not contain many facts.  He confesses to some mistakes as a teenager but doesn't say exactly what those mistakes are or who they were against.  The police report IS hearsay. There may or may not be an applicable hearsay exception under the Federal Rules of Evidence but it is in fact hearsay. (An out of court statement offered for the truth of the matter.)  The redacted police report that we seen have contains several narratives- that is summaries of witness statements.  In those narratives several people report "Josh's confession"- that he inappropriately touch 5 people. 3 of those narratives claim to have been touched (by Josh we presume) one of the narratives makes it sound like not a big deal.

 

So what we "Know" is that Josh admits to something he considers a mistake/inappropriate.  We don't know exactly what that bad thing is.  The police report contains 2 narratives that contain an accusation of something very bad (genital touching).  We don't know which sisters or others were involved.

 

I'm not trying to let anyone off the hook or excuse anyone's behavior.  But since I posted some of my deductions/speculations from my reading of the police report  I feel the need to at least point out that the police report contains allegations that have not been proven and were not directly admitted to.  (Josh's admission are very vague.) I do not have any insider knowledge- I only posted some educated guesses. So please don't use any of my posts as support for the idea that "we now know..."

 

And I stand by my statement that this family needs help.

[Katydid]

If Jill and/or Jessa are among the victims, I wonder what Derek and Ben think of their dear brother-in-law now. I also wonder if they were previously aware of this or whether it was a bombshell to them. It's not like they would have had the opportunity to talk about such personal things with their spouses before marriage, but I wonder if the info had been disclosed before now. I know we've observed Derek becoming more Duggarfied, but I just can't imagine that he'd be cool finding out his wife was molested by his brother-in-law. Not sure about what Ben's reaction would be.

[bybrandy]

Exactly. They've had it drilled in their skulls that men can't control their urges and basically anything a woman does can entice a man into ravishing her. Then they have to forgive them, or they're fostering bitterness and sinning. If they report it, they're damaged goods and still enticed the godly man. 

 

I know you're not condoning him, but still, in my own family (immediate and extended) we were very sheltered and discouraged from exploring sexuality before being married, but the thought never crossed my mind, or my siblings/cousins, that it was ok to fool around with your relatives. That's just gross. 

 

So was NIKE started to ward off Josh? 

No, you are absolutely right.   Many, many, many if not most people who grow up in very sheltered environments do so without it leading to any sort of amoral and or criminal activity that results in the harm of themselves, members of their family, or any other minors.  I certainly never meant to excuse Josh's actions based on his upbringing.  And I'm sorry that I didn't not make that point more clearly.    

As for NIKE that really, really bothers me.   It isn't right, it is wrong on so many levels, but I understand that some people really, truly believe that women who wear revealing outfits are asking for the attention.   But the Duggers whole schtick is that they keep their daughters from tempting men in that way...   and yet... and they don't see it.   I truly fear that those girls have been made to feel complicit in their own abuse.

I think Jim Bob and Michelle should be made to feel complicit in their son's abuse of their daughters.   However, I do not, in anyway, shape or form believe Jinger had it coming.  Jim Bob and Michelle?  They shouldn't either.

[merylinkid]

I just can't get over Josh calling this is a "mistake" and God forgives.   Where is there "God forgives" and people make mistakes attitude when they are screaming about how anyone who doesn't live exactly like they do is going to Hell?    Everything everyone esle does is a sin, but the Duggars make "mistakes."   Everyone else is going to Hell but God forgives the Duggars.   

 

I'd feel a little more sorry for this family if they had been a little more tolerant of others.

[BitterApple]

If Jill and/or Jessa are among the victims, I wonder what Derek and Ben think of their dear brother-in-law now. I also wonder if they were previously aware of this or whether it was a bombshell to them.

It's pretty much a given that Jessa, Jinger and Joy were victims. It's a toss up whether the final victim was Jill or Jana, but I'm leaning more towards Jana. I think Jill was the one who caught him and told her parents.

[McManda]

I would also like to say that I am a foster care case worker and have worked with many teen sexual offenders and quite a few have grown up and not reoffended and lead normal productive lives. Who knows what if any type of treatment josh got but he may no longer have those thoughts or perversions.

 

I haven't read the police report (and really, I don't want to. so, so horrible) so I'm not sure how long this went on, but my first thought is that Josh was this hormonal teenage boy trapped in a house where sex is everything (babies! always babies! Mom's cycle! you marry to have sex to reproduce!) but at the same time, something not acknowledged or explained or taught. It sounds to me he was curious and went looking for answers and outlets for his hormones and made bad choices with awful consequences. I don't really see a scenario where he was asserting power or where his goal was to intentionally hurt people. If that's the case, I think it's likely that he does regret what he did and it's unlikely for a relapse (is that what it would be called?) to be an issue in the future.

 

I'm going to blame Michelle and Jim Bob for most of this. Their bad parenting and sheltered lifestyle is almost asking for something like that (god forbid) to happen. Josh is at fault too, because it sounds like it went on longer than just a "hey, show me yours" or whatever and he really should have known better, but I'm not sure, considering how he was raised.

 

Bet now they wished Josh had just kissed a girl.

[awaken]

Along with his job, Josh most likely lost his health insurance for himself and his growing family, including his pregnant wife. Neither COBRA nor Obamacare will be cheap for a family of 5 -- soon to be 6. I've posted before that if the whole tv thing fell apart, the Duggars would be in a world of hurt. They've come to rely on TLC, and without it, they're screwed. I don't see any way TLC can keep them on the air. I suspect they'll be back on the road in the stink bus seeking forgiveness and "love offerings" before long.

I haven't seen too much comment about the mention in the police report that the children were spanked with a rod. That is abuse, too.

It's really no wonder there isn't much laughter in that home. These revelations make it sound like a house of horrors.

I hope the beating with rods issue is clarified soon. Someone said metal rods. I'm sick over that. I wonder if they still do with the younger kids or if the older ones bore the brunt of that.

I'm so angry that they aired the Duggar love rules or happy couples crap episode Tonight. How dare they.

What interview is it with Jill that people are talking about where there is a lot of tension?

Edited May 22, 2015 by awaken

[BitterApple]

One of the kids interviewed said they were spanked with rods, but the spankings never left any marks. Whether that's true or whether the kid felt obligated to defend her parents, who knows. I'm not defending it but the Duggars certainly aren't the only parents who use that method of discipline. My fiance used to get hit with a belt when he was a kid.

[Darknight]

I am really wondering how on earth this story was never made public before. Wow, it took 9 years for this to surface? And I wonder who it was that informed InTouch magazine about it, and how the police report was found. I guess we will never know.

Some victims of abuse especially ones that didn't get therapy find pregnancy and birth triggering. As well as sex. Maybe Ben or Derick released the information. Or maybe like someone said it was a political move since the Duggars associate themselves with Huckabee. Or maybe someone from tlc did it or someone from the police. Those documents weren't easy to get. Unless someone got paid off or someone knew someone.

[natyxg]

I hope the beating with rods issue is clarified soon. Someone said metal rods. I'm sick over that. I wonder if they still do with the younger kids or if the older ones bore the brunt of that.

 

It doesn't say metal rods. Just rods. And that they spanked all the kids but didn't leave any bruising. It's on page 29.

[Darknight]

One of the kids interviewed said they were spanked with rods, but the spankings never left any marks. Whether that's true or whether the kid felt obligated to defend her parents, who knows. I'm not defending it but the Duggars certainly aren't the only parents who use that method of discipline. My fiance used to get hit with a belt when he was a kid.

Rods meaning pearls training abuse. Not a regular spanking or hit with a belt.

[NikSac]

It doesn't say metal rods. Just rods. And that they spanked all the kids but didn't leave any bruising. It's on page 29.

 

Yeah I'm not sure where the "metal" came in. It might be somewhere else, but it's not in this police report.

[Ripley68]

What Josh did was wrong, but I can understand his actions. He's the oldest, couldn't go to his parents with what was going on with his body, had no friends or teachers to talk to, and his dad fondles his mom in front of him all the time.  Now, he knew it was wrong enough to do it when they were sleeping.  I believe because of the age it happened, and his upbringing, it was a teenage/hormone thing and would not be a problem again.  I believe he and Anna truly love each other and have a very good relationship.

 

As for the girls, I hope something was explained to them and they were not made to feel guilty.  It would explain Jana and JD's reluctance to be in relationship.  The girls need to be made to feel good about themselves and what happened to them was wrong.

[3girlsforus]

I don't know if this is allowed or not so if not just let me know and I'll remove it. This is an article about how Gothard/ATI counsels sexual abuse... 

 

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2013/04/how-counseling-sexual-abuse-blames-and-shames-survivors/

[mbutterfly]

It doesn't say metal rods. Just rods. And that they spanked all the kids but didn't leave any bruising. It's on page 29.

I wonder whether the rods were yardsticks -- biblically they were somewhat the same as measuring devices. 

[Cherrio]

I guess they will revive the ol Crime Doesn't Pay shows where the families of Bonnie and Clyde and John Dillinger toured the country.

Since the Duggars are freaks and TLC is the master of exploitation this should be easy peasy for them.

Side hugs will cost extra though.

[LexiconDevilOne]

I am really wondering how on earth this story was never made public before. Wow, it took 9 years for this to surface? And I wonder who it was that informed InTouch magazine about it, and how the police report was found. I guess we will never know.

 

I read about it on the freejinger website, years ago (back when the board was still good. I don't recommend that site nowadays), but it was never confirmed...until today.

Edited May 22, 2015 by LexiconDevilOne

[Abstract]

Ugh, the articles on why Josh deserves forgiveness are already making the rounds on FB.

[asuwur]

First let me go on the records as stating that what appears to have happened in wrong on so very many levels. I absolutely do NOT condone any of it.

 

The facts that we DO know for certain:

 

He was 14 in a family that actively suppressed any sexual education/expression/exploration.

JB and Michelle were listed as victim/victim parents

 

 

I wonder if he was in the "normal" family at that time, if any of this would have happened because it would have been far easier to seek a better outlet. Another fact....teenage boys, particularly early teens, do a lot of creepy things as far as females and when his only consistent interaction with females was with his sisters (and Famy).....just, eeew. That being said, most teenage boys who do creepy things usually wind up being completely normal/ non-sex offender adults. I struggle with calling him a "child molester" since he was a child himself. It's disgusting and absolutely wrong but I can't equate it to what some priests did, for example.

 

I also wonder if this might have something to do with Jana's lack of apparent interest in courting.

 

As someone who went to school to be a political strategist, I also seriously think that the reason this all came out suddenly is his increased profile WRT to GOP POTUS candidates. I do wonder if there's more to come since he stepped down really, really earlier in this. Either way, I smell a DNC operative at work here....

 

I do think that this is the end of the road for "19 Kids and Counting"....at least for the time being.....I don't see how TLC has a choice....

[Dejana]

Josh's FRC resignation letter in full:

 

I deeply regret that recent media reports about my long ago past has brought negative attention to FRC Action and its work to preserve and advance the interests of family, faith, and freedom in the political arena.

 

FRC Action's mission to fortify the traditional foundations of civil society is more important now than ever before, and I'm heartbroken that any attention has been diverted from these noble causes to my wrong actions as a young teenager. I am so thankful for God's grace, forgiveness and redemptive heart that allowed me to transform into a man of faith and testimony.

 

In good faith I cannot allow Family Research Council to be impacted by mistakes I made as a teenager, so I am resigning as Executive Director of FRC Action. I will continue to pray for the advancements of the causes we believe in and I hope that in the days ahead you will pray for me and Anna as we seek God to discover the next chapter of our lives in His service.

 

Sincerely,
Joshua Duggar

[Aw my lahgs]

Josh's FRC resignation letter in full:

 

I deeply regret that recent media reports about my long ago past has brought negative attention to FRC Action and its work to preserve and advance the interests of family, faith, and freedom in the political arena.

 

FRC Action's mission to fortify the traditional foundations of civil society is more important now than ever before, and I'm heartbroken that any attention has been diverted from these noble causes to my wrong actions as a young teenager. I am so thankful for God's grace, forgiveness and redemptive heart that allowed me to transform into a man of faith and testimony.

 

In good faith I cannot allow Family Research Council to be impacted by mistakes I made as a teenager, so I am resigning as Executive Director of FRC Action. I will continue to pray for the advancements of the causes we believe in and I hope that in the days ahead you will pray for me and Anna as we seek God to discover the next chapter of our lives in His service.

 

Sincerely,

Joshua Duggar

 

Felony (4th degree) molestation is not a mistake.

This bothers me to no end.

[JoanArc]

I guess Josh is still on that board of directors with Pat Boone, so there's still money coming in.

[Ilovemylabs]

What Josh did was wrong, but I can understand his actions. He's the oldest, couldn't go to his parents with what was going on with his body, had no friends or teachers to talk to, and his dad fondles his mom in front of him all the time.  Now, he knew it was wrong enough to do it when they were sleeping.  I believe because of the age it happened, and his upbringing, it was a teenage/hormone thing and would not be a problem again.  I believe he and Anna truly love each other and have a very good relationship.

 

As for the girls, I hope something was explained to them and they were not made to feel guilty.  It would explain Jana and JD's reluctance to be in relationship.  The girls need to be made to feel good about themselves and what happened to them was wrong.

My view exactly.  Make no mistake, what he did was WRONG, but with his upbringing it doesn't really come as a shock to me. 14 years old, raging hormones and no normal outlet.   While I could never excuse this behavior I might understand it because of the nature of his upbringing. I don't think he is a genuine pedophile.  I think he and Anna love each other and I think he really loves his kids as kids and not at sex objects.   I hope his victims (sisters) have received some help, but who knows how Jim Bob and Michelle spun those events?  This whole situation is so incredibly tragic and sad.  I am not among those who seem a bit gleeful at the Duggar's downfall.

[humbleopinion]

What took the FRC so long to vet his past?

Guessing Josh didn't reveal this part of his past in the job interview.

[dillpickles]

Cancel the Duggars seems to be trending on instagram, and here we thought catgate would end them!

[Cherrio]

What took the FRC so long to vet his past?

Guessing Josh didn't reveal this part of his past in the job interview.

Well you know those Duggars, such high moral character (NOT)

[NikSac]

You know what really sucks - not only is TLC still running the show tonight, I bet the ratings will be up. Even people who never watched the show may well tune in to see it now that this is hitting mainstream media.

[For Cereals]

I don't even watch the show but I'm also bothered. He NEVER received any sort of counseling from what I read except for a "stern talking to" by a child pornographer who is thankfully in prison. Could Josh have been a victim as well? Even if he is sorry, I would not want him around any children of any age.

[Aw my lahgs]

My view exactly.  Make no mistake, what he did was WRONG, but with his upbringing it doesn't really come as a shock to me. 14 years old, raging hormones and no normal outlet.   While I could never excuse this behavior I might understand it because of the nature of his upbringing. I don't think he is a genuine pedophile.  I think he and Anna love each other and I think he really loves his kids as kids and not at sex objects.   I hope his victims (sisters) have received some help, but who knows how Jim Bob and Michelle spun those events?  This whole situation is so incredibly tragic and sad.  I am not among those who seem a bit gleeful at the Duggar's downfall.

 

There really is no justification for sexual molestation.... Yes his youth was pretty fucked up, but many people grow up in fucked up situations and don't become child molesters.

[SmallTownMom]

On this week's episode where we went behind the scenes with the crew, Jim Bob stated how at first he wasn't sure he could trust the crew around his children.  Ironic, isn't it, how the danger was a lot closer?

 

Josh said that he realized that if he continued on this road, he would ruin his life.  What about the lives YOU ruined?  It can all be swept under the rug, but the girls are still suffering, I can assure you.  Not something you ever get over.  I have 3 sisters, and we were all touched or fondled or shown porn or had naked pics taken of us by a close male relative.  He also delighted in exposing himself to us every chance he got.  Well, now we are all late 50's to mid 60's and we only very recently all talked about it, and cried alot.  Our hurt is very real, and although we went on to all have happy marriages and successful careers, the pain is still there, as are the secrets.  None of us have ever told our husbands about it.  Why are we ashamed?  We were very young girls and did nothing wrong.  Back then you didn't talk about it to anyone, and our mom never would have believed us anyway.  My point is, these girls won't just get over it.  You can't pray this away.

 

I know Josh was very young, but at 14 you still know right from wrong.  Yet he has parents who love to talk about their sex lives and behave inappropriately in front of impressionable kids.  Jim Bob is such a horn dog, and Josh was curious.  Modesty my ass!  Nobody needs to know Michelle's menstrual cycle or whether or not they are "trying" for another child.  And I sure never needed to see those 2 dry humping in front of their kids.  Or showing how to kiss. EXTREMELY CREEPY!

 

So to some extent, I feel bad for Josh, but just a teeny bit.  And if Anna and her parents knew about this, why on earth would they let her marry this guy?  I fear for their little girls.  I've never heard of perverts who stop because God doesn't want them to do that.  There is always the chance that he will slip up again, if he hasn't already.  No wonder they were so anxious to marry him off!

 

Makes me sick that the Duggars who are so righteous and holy and better than everybody else have covered this up all these years.   I hope their show is cancelled immediately.

[alt0233]

When you tell kids that kissing before marriage is as bad as sex before marriage, and that hand holding is reserved for engaged couples, but then take them out in the world where kissing and hand holding happens willy nilly, I'm not particularly surprised all levels of experimentation seen equal. I don't excuse Josh at all, but the way he was raised definitely plays a big part in this.

I can't help but wonder what the vibe in the house is right now. How are the girls doing? How much do the other siblings know, especially the really little ones? I hope they're okay and they're supporting each other, because I don't trust Michelle and JB to give them any kind of appropriate support.

[Darknight]

I haven't read the police report (and really, I don't want to. so, so horrible) so I'm not sure how long this went on, but my first thought is that Josh was this hormonal teenage boy trapped in a house where sex is everything (babies! always babies! Mom's cycle! you marry to have sex to reproduce!) but at the same time, something not acknowledged or explained or taught. It sounds to me he was curious and went looking for answers and outlets for his hormones and made bad choices with awful consequences. I don't really see a scenario where he was asserting power or where his goal was to intentionally hurt people. If that's the case, I think it's likely that he does regret what he did and it's unlikely for a relapse (is that what it would be called?) to be an issue in the future.

I'm going to blame Michelle and Jim Bob for most of this. Their bad parenting and sheltered lifestyle is almost asking for something like that (god forbid) to happen. Josh is at fault too, because it sounds like it went on longer than just a "hey, show me yours" or whatever and he really should have known better, but I'm not sure, considering how he was raised.

Bet now they wished Josh had just kissed a girl.

I blame JimChelle as well but Josh is at fault too

[dillpickles]

Can we get a petition going to get the show off the air? Maybe a gofundme for the girls or something? At this point Josh can fuck himself sideways, but I'm worried about the victims.

[neural-plasticity]

I don't know if this is allowed or not so if not just let me know and I'll remove it. This is an article about how Gothard/ATI counsels sexual abuse...

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2013/04/how-counseling-sexual-abuse-blames-and-shames-survivors/

This makes me sick. My jaw dropped.

[ZoloftBlob]

Guessing Josh didn't reveal this part of his past in the job interview

 

Are you so certain he had an interview beyond "You're the j-1 on the 19 kids and counting show? Welcome aboard!"?

[jschoolgirl]

I wonder who wrote the resignation letter for Josh. It's much too literate and elegantly phrased to be him.

Probably someone at FRC.