Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[PikaScrewChu]

I skimmed through the NLQ article. I know they get a boost for supposedly being on the inside but I thought Vyckie and company were never "dear friends" with the Duggars. 

[Sew Sumi]

There's more than just Vickie posting for NLQ on Patheos. Maybe another person knows the Duggars?

[Temperance]

TMZ for the win! (Finally a reliable source) TMZ reports Josh Duggar: Homeland Security Raids His Office. 

"Josh Duggar has Homeland Security crawling around the car dealership where he works in Arkansas, and it's related to a federal investigation ... TMZ has learned.

Agents went to the dealership in Springdale, AR in connection to a federal probe ... according to sources close to the situation. There were reports the feds had raided the Duggar family home, but we're told that's not the case. Agents have only been at Josh's place of employment ... at least for now.

It's unclear exactly what the nature of the investigation is, or if Josh was the target. A Homeland Security spokesman would only confirm agents were at the dealership.

The Duggars rose to fame thanks to a pair of reality shows, '19 Kids' and "Counting On." But, as we reported, TLC eventually pulled the plug on '19 Kids' in 2015 following Josh Duggar's child molestation scandal.

Josh's only current legal dispute, that we know of, is a lawsuit filed against him for real estate fraud.

A Duggar family spokesperson says it's not true "any member of our family is the target of any investigation of any kind." The spokesperson added, "Living a life in the public's eye has taught us that it is best not to reply to every rumor and piece of 'fake news' that is circulated online. It would be a full-time job if we attempted to do so." "

Story developing ...

[BitterApple]

25 minutes ago, Temperance said:

People need to be patient and eventually the truth will come out. It's the problem  with our culture, with the 24 hour news cycle, etc. that we expect to know everything at once. 

I agree. These articles are starting to feel like creative writing assignments. 

[wilsie]

I was wondering in odometer tampering would be in Homeland Security's jurisdiction.  

Edited November 20, 2019 by wilsie

[coconspirator]

42 minutes ago, Temperance said:

This article seems to be full of it. I'm sorry, but we have zero evidence that Derick/Jill is any way involved with this mess. We have zero evidence that Josh went to Central America since the end of 19 KAC or even before. He wasn't going there when he worked for FRC (Family Resource Council (still operating and evil)). To suggest sex-traffing in the Bahamas is absolutely bananas and the writer is literally making stuff up.  Half the sentences don't even link up with each other. Josiah is at the TTH is a nonsequiter. The entire piece lacks coherence. I think it's nonsense. 

People need to be patient and eventually the truth will come out. It's the problem  with our culture, with the 24 hour news cycle, etc. that we expect to know everything at once. 

THANK YOU!! There are too many conspiracy theorists trying to piece together random information or speculation and weave it together as fact. The fact is there was a search/raid of the car lot. It was done by Homeland Security. It was Josh's car lot so Josh is involved somehow. I think that's literally all that is known.

[Churchhoney]

13 minutes ago, wilsie said:

I was wondering in odometer tampering would be in Homeland Security's jurisdiction.  

When it comes to the non-obvious things (not terrorism or international trafficking or the like). Homeland Security seems to have a very wide mandate to investigate just about any kind of crime or fraud that involves internet use. That includes a wide variety of crimes/frauds committed by groups of people who collaborate over the internet to do the crimes, for example....

I don't know if you'd do that for odometer fraud specifically, but seems to me you could easily have some kind of ring of people working in a group that's scattered geographically and collaborates online to buy/steal/sell/transport/tamper-with-(including-with-odometers)/"launder"-in-some-way cars that are then sold fraudulently in various places.....

That seems like one good candidate for Duggar-type activity to me!

Edited November 20, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Dmarie019]

47 minutes ago, Temperance said:

This article seems to be full of it.

uhhh yea - the person who wrote that seems like a complete whack job. 

[WescottF1]

41 minutes ago, Trillium said:

Lego Hair and Mullet

Band name!

[PikaScrewChu]

2 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

When it comes to the non-obvious things (not terrorism or international trafficking or the like). Homeland Security seems to have a very wide mandate to investigate just about any kind of crime or fraud that involves internet use. That includes a wide variety of crimes/frauds committed by groups of people who collaborate over the internet to do the crimes, for example....

I don't know if you'd do that for odometer fraud specifically, but seems to me you could easily have some kind of ring of people working in a group that's scattered geographically and collaborates online to buy/steal/sell/transport/tamper-with/"launder"-in-some way cars that are then sold fraudulently in various places.....

That seems like one good candidate for Duggar-type activity to me!

When you said odometer fraud I was reminded of Ferris Bueller's Day Off where they were trying to get the miles off the odometer by propping up the car and running it in reverse. 

Why do I have a feeling a Duggar tried to do that?

[wilsie]

6 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

When it comes to the non-obvious things (not terrorism or international trafficking or the like). Homeland Security seems to have a very wide mandate to investigate just about any kind of crime or fraud that involves internet use. That includes a wide variety of crimes/frauds committed by groups of people who collaborate over the internet to do the crimes, for example....

I don't know if you'd do that for odometer fraud specifically, but seems to me you could easily have some kind of ring of people working in a group that's scattered geographically and collaborates online to buy/steal/sell/transport/tamper-with-(including-with-odometers)/"launder"-in-some-way cars that are then sold fraudulently in various places.....

That seems like one good candidate for Duggar-type activity to me!

Especially with Josh's upcoming April 2020 fraudulent "quiet title" and breaching a contract lawsuit.  The Duggar's are quite deceitful for professed Christians.  

[Churchhoney]

3 minutes ago, wilsie said:

Especially with Josh's upcoming April 2020 fraudulent "quiet title" and breaching a contract lawsuit.  The Duggar's are quite deceitful for professed Christians.  

I chalk it up to the fact that the KJ version of that "Thou shalt not bear false witness" rule 😁is just too darned hard for SOTDRT graduates to decipher. 

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

19 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

My guess is it could go either way. TLC had to spend lots of money to rehabilitate the Duggars the last time....

Or they’ll say fuck it, write it off and move on to a less notorious nightmare family.

Dear TLC,

The Rodrigues Family is ready for their close up.  

They're a train wreck and have the same bigoted ideas as the Duggars, but at least they're entertaining.  (And there's never been any rumors about the Rod parents covering up & failing to protect their kids from a sexual predator living in their own home. It's a low bar, but they've at least got that going for them as opposed to other TLC families.)

There's even a Rod child's wedding coming up! What a perfect way to introduce them to viewers - a wedding special! Cancel the Duggars and sign the Rods. (Plus, then the Rod kids may get to eat more. And a certain Duggar-by-marriage who was too good to publicly acknowledge her brother's engagement to the Rods - as she felt they were beneath her - will see the time spot the Duggars once occupied filled with the Rodrigues family.)

Edited November 20, 2019 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Oldernowiser]

1 hour ago, BradandJanet said:

Whatever is going down, it's going to be expensive. It's a good thing JB put his kids on TV at an early age and kept the money. 

Of course, JB could just claim he never really knew Josh, met him only once, but seemed like a nice guy. 

And he always said great, magnificent things about JB...

Edited November 20, 2019 by Oldernowiser

[PikaScrewChu]

21 minutes ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

Dear TLC,

The Rodrigues Family is ready for their close up.  

They're a train wreck and have the same bigoted ideas as the Duggars, but at least they're entertaining.  (And there's never been any rumors about the Rod parents covering up & failing to protect their kids from a sexual predator living in their own home. It's a low bar, but they've at least got that going for them as opposed to other TLC families.)

There's even a Rod child's wedding coming up! What a perfect way to introduce them to viewers - a wedding special! Cancel the Duggars and sign the Rods. (Plus, then the Rod kids may get to eat more. And a certain Duggar-by-marriage who was too good to publicly acknowledge her brother's engagement to the Rods she felt were beneath her will see the time spot the Duggars once occupied filled with the Rodrigues family.)

Co-signed. I would potentially watch unhinged rants about Chik-Fil-A by a woman who still thinks it is 1985. 

[GeeGolly]

Google say, "The HSI investigates human rights violations, immigration crime, human smuggling, export enforcement issues, cybercrime, financial crimes, and the smuggling of weapons and other contraband."

Hopefully it's financial fraud. They could be cooking the books. Maybe making cash deals and not reporting it on their taxes. Or they could be making a lot of large cash bank deposits. Any amount over $10,000 in cash must be reported by banks. If the Duggars are depositing more cash than a typical car lot of their size, that could prompt an investigation.

I know I'm grasping at straws here but I'm hoping it's weapons or finances.

[MsJamieDornan]

I don't even care if this all involves Josh. I want Big Boob to fall and fall hard. Everything he touches is some sort of scam and it's time it comes to an end.

Edited November 20, 2019 by MsJamieDornan

[3 is enough]

Just popping in to say the story made the MSN home page.  

I am quite content to wait and see what the real story is here, but I do think some of the speculation is crazy.  If I had to guess, I would say it has to do with shady finances.  We all know there is no way those car lots generate enough income to support at least 3 families ( Josh, Joe, and Josiah) plus some single brothers.

As much as I think Josh is a slimy bastard, I sincerely doubt he would be dumb enough to have anything to do with underage females. 

And I have always had the impression that Jim Bob has no reservations about bilking "non-believers"- people who don't share his beliefs are fair game because, you know, Jesus.

Edited November 20, 2019 by 3 is enough

[JoanArc]

Quote

Of course, JB could just claim he never really knew Josh, met him only once, but seemed like a nice guy. 

"And yes, I gave birth to 18 of them!"

Quote

The Rodrigues Family is ready for their close up.  

Nurie is probably soon going to be regretting an engagement designed to bring her closer to the Duggars.

Quote

I sincerely doubt he would be dumb enough to have anything to do with underage females.  

He was dumb enough to do it before...

[MsJamieDornan]

I try to keep up here but what is the real estate fraud that involves Josh ?

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

36 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I don't even care if this all involves Josh. I want Big Boob to fall and fall hard. Everything he touches is some sort of scam and it's times it comes to an end.

Same. King JB needs to go down.  He & his campaign years ago are the reasons The Duggars are a "thing" (as the kids say) outside of Gothard circles.  And while Josh did vile things that cannot be excused, the person who touts himself as the headship with the umbrella of authority over his household & children did not get Josh proper help right away or protect his daughters even as it happen again (& again) under his headship.  By his own publicly espoused beliefs & the values he advocates, he's a failed headship.  Even if his hypocritical Fundies won't hold him to some kind of standards (because hypocrites gonna hypocrite), he should get some kind of karma that sticks for at least a bit in this lifetime.    

Let's remember this is a man who spent $200k on a sure-to-fail senate campaign when his 13 (or so?) children were living in a 3 bedroom house (when that money would have easily bought a much larger home in their low-cost-of-living, especially area back in the 90s/early 2000s). He spent that $200k on his campaign at a time when his children were able to eat mostly due to "love offerings." 

His wife had a mental breakdown over laundry when they had six kids, yet he did not think to get snipped (or otherwise stop the baby train) for his own wife's mental health (and the quality of life of his already-born children) because having lots of kids boosted his reputation in the Fundie world & his ego. 

JimBob may not have done the vile things Josh did, but in no way is he a good man.  He may love his kids as more than possessions (at least compared to Michelle), but he is not a good father. He is not a good husband (I am not excusing Michelle's parts in this awfulness, BTW, just focusing on JB as he was brought up...and if he goes down, so does Michelle, at least financially/in status).  JimBob is not a good person and most of all, he has not been a good person to the children he was "blessed" with.   Also, JimBob did all of these things as an adult who wasn't raised in a cult himself and knew what "the world" was like. He made these awful decisions with a family to feed and with a fully-developed adult brain that was able to understand long-term consequences for his actions. 

57 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Google say, "The HSI investigates human rights violations, immigration crime, human smuggling, export enforcement issues, cybercrime, financial crimes, and the smuggling of weapons and other contraband."

My friend and I were just discussing this info and she said "I will be disappointed if it's any less than three of those things that the Duggars go down for."  Ha. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Future Cat Lady]

7 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I have also wondered if JB or Josh got involved with someone else's shady dealings and that is what this is about.

We're all gonna look really silly if it turns out that the Duggars are the victims in all this. 😂

[MsJamieDornan]

1 minute ago, Future Cat Lady said:

We're all gonna look really silly if it turns out that the Duggars are the victims in all this.

So are they!

[Barb23]

51 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Hopefully it's financial fraud. They could be cooking the books. 

The Duggars can't cook anything. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Barb23

[GeeGolly]

Just now, Barb23 said:

The Duggars can't cook anything. 

LMAO.

Maybe that's the issue. Michelle has been teaching them to cook the books rather than food.

[3 is enough]

3 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

He was dumb enough to do it before...

True enough, but he was also underage, and since it brought about his downfall I would like to think he learned something.  Of course, it's Smuggar, so I could be wrong. After all, we all know they "do things differently".🙄

[Fosca]

If it is child porn (and I completely hope it isn't), I wonder if Joshley was stupid enough to think that if he collected it at work rather than at home that he wouldn't get caught and/or have plausible deniability if he did.

But yeah, cooking the books seems like a more likely cause.  Money laundering and suchlike--used car lots are notorious for that, aren't they?

[MsJamieDornan]

This actually gives the Homeland person's name. Which makes it more real to me.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/did-the-duggars-have-their-home-raided-everything-we-know-so-far-194709917.html

[farmgal4]

3 hours ago, bobalina said:

Homeland wouldn't be involved in taxes, that would be Treasury or possibly FBI.

What crimes would Homeland Security be involved in?

[GeeGolly]

7 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

This actually gives the Homeland person's name. Which makes it more real to me.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/did-the-duggars-have-their-home-raided-everything-we-know-so-far-194709917.html

How shady of the Duggars to put out a fake news statement when only the location was wrong.

[MsJamieDornan]

Quote

What crimes would Homeland Security be involved in?

There are quite a few posted just up the page a bit.

[farmgal4]

Just now, MsJamieDornan said:

There are quite a few posted just up the page a bit.

I just found them.  I’m sorry for posting without doing more reading.  Thank you.

[MsJamieDornan]

Just now, farmgal4 said:

I just found them.  I’m sorry for posting without doing more reading.  Thank you.

I was just too lazy to post them again. lol

[wilsie]

46 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I try to keep up here but what is the real estate fraud that involves Josh ?

This is a good link:  https://www.kark.com/news/josh-duggars-jury-trial-set-for-april/

[hathorlive]

17 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

What crimes would Homeland Security be involved in?

So I work for a federal law enforcement agency.  Homeland has TONS of money, mainly because of 9/11 and terrorism.  With that money, they buy all sorts of cool tools (google Stingray cell phone for shits and giggles) and they fund all sorts of task forces.  The task forces bring all sorts of local, state and federal law enforcement agencies together to share information/resources and work cases jointly, so they can make sure there aren't two agencies on the same perp at any given time (though that still happens).  It also empowers smaller local/state groups to do bigger cases that the feds are too busy to work.

Because of the task forces, Homeland has a finger in every type of crime and investigation out there. They do child porn cases, they do financial crimes, fraud, rico, dark web, you name it.   So, all we know is that Homeland was the lead and that this case could be anything from illegal titles, to tax fraud to anything related to Josh (I don't have the energy to TYPE all that crap). 

Regarding State versus Federal charges, all the feds need to make it a federal case is an intrastate nexus.  You have child porn, that can be a state charge.  If you email the image across a state line it can be a federal charge.  Use of mail to commit a crime is one of the best ways to make it "go federal". The Duggars buy cars in one state and drive them to Arkansas.  That could make it federal. The only thing the feds need to make something their jurisdiction is a dollar amount (they want cases with huge loss totals) or multi-state transactions.  I've had coworkers beg AUSA's to take a case and be told that they need another 100,000 in losses before they'll consider.  So, if you want to be a crook, steal in small amounts in different jurisdictions.  The AUSAs also love it when they can hone in on another state's territory to make their case "bigger".

What I can basically promise you is that there is a significant amount of money involved (theft, loss, damages, child porn) to get Homeland's attention.   This could have been a local case that the local/state guys found and a task force led by Homeland decided it met the threshold and ran with it.  But we aren't talking odometers (unless it's on hundreds of cars in many states) or a few child porn images.  

BTW, I've testified in federal court as an expert witness in two child porn cases.  So, yes, CP can be a federal offense.  It all depends on the AUSA in your state and what is "in" case wise.  CP isn't as "big" right now but identity theft is.  It goes in cycles.

Disclaimer:  I am not an attorney or a sworn law enforcement official.  The information I'm presenting is based on 15 years experience working for state and federal LE groups.

[JoanArc]

I saw this comment on reddit, it's pure speculation - but thesese kinds of reltionships are interesting:

Quote

Travis Story is the Duggar lawyer, and his former colleague Bob Ballinger is a state senator (a campaign Jed managed).

These two men have a surprising relationship. They control medical marijuana in Arkansas.

https://www.bluehogreport.com/2018/08/06/lets-be-blunt-bob-ballingers-suspicious-ties-to-medical-marijuana-licensing/

Travis Story is an agent on the car dealership that was raided, BUT NOT on the one that seems to be simply closed. Same with Jed.

[Oldernowiser]

Hathorlive, thank you!!! It’s wonderful to have people like you on the thread, who have actual expertise to share. It’s very much appreciated by someone like me, who has exactly nothing to offer except enthusiasm. 😁

[Minivanessa]

@hathorlive, I also really appreciate your post. It makes all kinds of sense.

PS: for those who may wonder, "AUSA" = Assistant United States Attorney. The ASUAs are the prosecutors for the federal criminal cases filed as a result of the Homeland Security investigations that @hathorlive was describing. 

[Oldernowiser]

I did wonder about all this when I read about those two chemistry professors in Arkansas who were arrested for manufacturing methamphetamine a few days ago.

Then I read “liberal arts university” and realized that any or all three words ruled out Duggar involvement completely.

[hathorlive]

3 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

@hathorlive, I also really appreciate your post. It makes all kinds of sense.

PS: for those who may wonder, "AUSA" = Assistant United States Attorney. The ASUAs are the prosecutors for the federal criminal cases filed as a result of the Homeland Security investigations that @hathorlive was describing. 

Sorry!  I forget that normal people don't use these acronyms on a regular basis. I caught myself using "deconfliction" and edited it out.  

I don't know what's going on with the Duggars' but I do know the federal LE system.  What I don't understand is that in 90% of the cases I've worked or search warrants that I've been on, if you hit the business, you always have a second group hit the house at the same time.   The logic is that if the business has computers and papers that are incriminating or relating to crime, then the house probably has similar items.  Have we confirmed if they raided Josh's house or the TTH?  Or does Josh just haunt the out buildings on the property with his brood?  I would be shocked if they didn't hit the main target(s) house.   We've taken kid's iPads and computers because you can't tell who uses what device.   This should be a very interesting situation.

[Sew Sumi]

We don't know where Smuggar is living these days, so it's hard to know whether his home was raided. Anna was on social media as late as Saturday, so if a raid on their house occurred, it would have been after that. Assuming they would have confiscated her phone, of course.

[hathorlive]

4 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

We don't know where Smuggar is living these days, so it's hard to know whether his home was raided. Anna was on social media as late as Saturday, so if a raid on their house occurred, it would have been after that. Assuming they would have confiscated her phone, of course.

Based on her condition, they could have dumped her phone on site and left it with her.  We've done that before with transplant patients.  You don't want to leave a 9 months pregnant woman with no phone.

[Sew Sumi]

4 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

Based on her condition, they could have dumped her phone on site and left it with her.  We've done that before with transplant patients.  You don't want to leave a 9 months pregnant woman with no phone.

Good point. Thanks!

[Trillium]

Once again, hats off to the intrepid Redditors, here is a link to all the business formed by a member of the Duggar family this year. The most recent one is registered to Anna in September. All of them except the one registered to Josiah and JD are all registered at the same address. 

If you follow the link to Reddit you can click on each one to see more info. There isn’t much there but it’s odd for a family that doesn’t seem to do much of anything has so many LLCs.  
 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Trillium

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Fosca said:

If it is child porn (and I completely hope it isn't), I wonder if Joshley was stupid enough to think that if he collected it at work rather than at home that he wouldn't get caught and/or have plausible deniability if he did.

But yeah, cooking the books seems like a more likely cause.  Money laundering and suchlike--used car lots are notorious for that, aren't they?

If it's child porn, it seems they usually find that pretty quickly on your computer after they nab your electronics....and once they do find the child porn, you're not at large for very long....and they seem to make sure that everybody knows about it.....even if you're not famous, let alone if you are.....It's been some days now.....which makes me think it's not porn.

Meanwhile, if it's some other kind of crime -- financial or some kind of conspiracy to defraud somebody or something -- that pretty much always takes longer to pin down on the computers... and of course virtually no pieces of such evidence would provide open-and-shut proof of a crime the way the mere existence of some child porn does........and they don't necessarily grab you out of your bedroom and perp walk you quite so quickly, even after they've turned up a bunch of evidence  -- because they're not trying to make a point about how you're a major public threat and how they get major public threats off the street really quickly.

Seems much more likely to me that the computers are tangled up in some financial or fraud crime....

Edited November 21, 2019 by Churchhoney

[BradandJanet]

I hope this problem oozes slime all over Jim Bob, Michelle, and Josh and swallows up aspiring politician Jed's family-values campaign. They have no values except to judge other people and take for themselves. 

As for the Rodriguii, even TLC won't put up with narcissistic, uneducated, openly bigoted Jill, her unemployed, not-photogenic husband, and their emaciated, uneducated, dull kids. TLC has to consider who would pay to sponsor such a mess. 

[hathorlive]

8 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Good point. Thanks!

Or knowing the Duggars, they went out and bought new phones and saved the difference.  IF they have cloud storage, they could get all their info back and be back on the internet in no time.

[Minivanessa]

1 minute ago, BradandJanet said:

I hope this problem oozes slime all over Jim Bob, Michelle, and Josh and swallows up aspiring politician Jed's family-values campaign. They have no values except to judge other people and take for themselves. 

As for the Rodriguii, even TLC won't put up with narcissistic, uneducated, openly bigoted Jill, her unemployed, not-photogenic husband, and their emaciated, uneducated, dull kids. TLC has to consider who would pay to sponsor such a mess. 

The sponsors of Honey Boo-boo? 🤣

[BetyBee]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/dz3yrv/a_reminder_that_the_duggars_are_already_criminals/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

I hope it's okay to post this here. I thought it was an interesting post about the Duggars, Josh in particular. 

[Minivanessa]

About the LLCs that the various Duggars formed. The "registered office" for those filings is simply the place (and the person/company) who is authorized to be served with legal papers on behalf of the LLC. The registered agent and office are often a law firm or a company that provides that service. The registered office therefore can - and often does - have nothing to do with the actual location of the LLC's business operations. 

(So if I wanted to sue an LLC or a corporation, I wouldn't have to track down their actual office, just look up their registered office on their state's business entity database, and send the process server to that address.)