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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

maraleia

By maraleia
in Counting On

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hoosier80
hoosier80

New show title: 10 to 20 Years and Counting 

MargeGunderson
MargeGunderson

Someone on Reddit just described Josh’s face as a glistening glazed ham. I am considering divorcing my husband and marrying that poster. 

doodlebug
doodlebug

Well, for many of us, it's the difference between 'imperfect' and 'non-PC' and being a criminal.  Josh is a child molester and his parents actively intervened in his situation to avoid him being punis

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OpieTaylor

OpieTaylor

16 minutes ago, auntieminem said:

Hmmm,  wonder what "professional means to them?  

Statement from Josh and Anna.  http://www.duggarfamily.com/2016/5/a-statement-from-josh-and-anna-duggar

It cracks me up that the statement starts with "as we enter into a long family weekend together." I assume they're referring to the Memorial Day long weekend? As if Josh, or any of the Duggars, have jobs with designated day-off holidays! 

  • Love 18
bigskygirl

bigskygirl

I think the professional counseling is coming from JB and Michelle, Derick, or even Benjermin since they seem to think they are experts. And why are they so hang up on everything is all fine and dandy because God forgave him? Really...Seriously... Once a lying, hypocritical dirt bag who thinks he got away with it and hides behind his family and God... Does he realize God told the people behind the telling of his secrets he was hiding for years to let the cat out of the bag. Maybe God wanted people to know what a scum bag he really is.

whydoiwatch

whydoiwatch

When the Smuggars release these "statements", WHO are the intended recipients? I remember asking this same exact question once before when these idiots felt the need to issue a statement. They just don't get it, no one cares. The majority of contributors to this forum are here to snark and wait for the next flip flop to drop.  Of course there are the leghumpers, but I have never been convinced that there are very many of them and I have wondered if some of them are actually the Duggars themselves. This clan has shown they will do anything to stay relevant. 

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Arwen Evenstar

Arwen Evenstar

9 hours ago, jschoolgirl said:

I am not so sure of that.

Well, according to Gothard, everything ends up being the woman's fault, foul temptresses that we are...the men in Gothards world enjoy headship, superiority over women, and little responsibility for their bad behavior. 

His repressed screwed up upbringing didn't help...the way he is can't be blamed entirely on it tho.

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NewDigs

NewDigs

3 hours ago, OpieTaylor said:

It cracks me up that the statement starts with "as we enter into a long family weekend together." I assume they're referring to the Memorial Day long weekend? As if Josh, or any of the Duggars, have jobs with designated day-off holidays! 

My first thought was that it should be read, " as we enter this loooooong family weekend..."

Big deal. Sit around and do a lot more nothing.

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lookeyloo

lookeyloo

Do we think there's any slim chance at all that either Smuggar realized what a crock his placement was and/or Anna has "slyly" researched things and realizes they need a real professional?  They didn't say "licensed" - just professional but maybe that person has a smart or two. That could take this all in a different direction. That's the optimist in me coming out. Realistically I don't think so. 

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allonsyalice

allonsyalice

(edited)
13 hours ago, JoanArc said:

I think this there way of keeping their names in the headlines. It's also trolling for a new spinoff. 

Some one screenshot it so we can see if they can be it for sympathy.

Its also Friday on a holiday weekend. The wrong time to release statements. It's take out the trash day, not look at us day.

I'm actually not sure what they are trying to say at all.

Screen Shot 2016-05-28 at 8.37.54 AM.png

Edited by allonsyalice
Fuzzysox

Fuzzysox

14 hours ago, JoanArc said:

I think this there way of keeping their names in the headlines. It's also trolling for a new spinoff. 

Some one screenshot it so we can see if they can be it for sympathy.

Its also Friday on a holiday weekend. The wrong time to release statements. It's take out the trash day, not look at us day.

Bingo! I call bull and they will never properly heal because they aren't allowed to have any real feelings. When you do have a "feeling" you have to suppress it while smiling and carrying on.

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Arwen Evenstar

Arwen Evenstar

2 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

Do we think there's any slim chance at all that either Smuggar realized what a crock his placement was and/or Anna has "slyly" researched things and realizes they need a real professional?  They didn't say "licensed" - just professional but maybe that person has a smart or two. That could take this all in a different direction. That's the optimist in me coming out. Realistically I don't think so. 

I hope this "professional" whoever he or she is actually calls Smuggar to accountability for HIS behavior and finally someone who doesn't belong to their cult who can finally put a bug in his ear just how messed up his parents, cult, and upbringing actually are/were, and that he's a GROWN ASS man, who is accountable only to God, himself, and his little family, NOT Boob.  

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zoomama

zoomama

17 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

I think the professional counseling is coming from JB and Michelle, Derick, or even Benjermin since they seem to think they are experts. And why are they so hang up on everything is all fine and dandy because God forgave him? Really...Seriously... Once a lying, hypocritical dirt bag who thinks he got away with it and hides behind his family and God... Does he realize God told the people behind the telling of his secrets he was hiding for years to let the cat out of the bag. Maybe God wanted people to know what a scum bag he really is.

without getting too preachy here, God does forgive if we repent and ask for forgiveness. God did not tell someone to let the cat out of the bag -- He does not control us like puppets. He gives us each free will to make good and bad decisions. then, when we realize we were wrong AND seek forgiveness ALONG WITH changing our bad behavior, God then blesses us with His forgiveness.  the point is to change and not keep doing the wrong behaviors.

that is what my faith and Bible study tell me.

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cmr2014

cmr2014

I, personally, see no scenario in which "counseling" involves anything other than Gothard wisdom booklets and sessions with JB and J'chelle.

1. Going to a counsellor, even a Baptist minister, would mean the possibility that non-Gothard thoughts could be part of the sessions.

2. I can't imagine that JB would be willing for them to take part in counseling sessions where he did not know what was being discussed.

3. JB and J'chelle have a "perfect" marriage. Why go anywhere else?

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Marigold

Marigold

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

I expect the most "professional" or more mainstream than ATI/RU they will go is a pastor at a local Baptist church.  If they go to an SBC pastor at least he will have a college education and may have actually taken a couple of classes in pastoral counseling. 

I agree with Absolom. I think that Cross Church minister is involved somehow. 

Years back, Jim Bob was very isolated from any churches. They home churched. Period. I notice they are interacting with actual churches now.  There are a few photos of them at a church once in a while.  Girls got married in a local church. So, it is a possibility that a real live minister with some actual training is working with Josh and Anna. That would be good news for all of them. 

Marigold

Marigold

(edited)
8 minutes ago, NewDigs said:

Boob's newer churchgoin' ways probably play better to the missioneers they're trying to learn grifting from.

I'm sure that is part of it.

And they need a church to film the girls getting married. And a minister.  Jim Bob realized he has a problem isolating himself like that so he got his hairspray head into a church and made nicey-nice with the ministers. After church, I bet he sits everyone down on the crazy sofas and then tells them everything the minister said that was wrong. They all nod in agreement.  

Whatever the motive, it's good for the kidults that they have a bit more access to rational people. 

 

Edit to add: Cross church has a group for Joshie! 

http://crosschurch.com/groups/celebrate-recovery/117/

Edited by Marigold
  • Love 3
JoanArc

JoanArc

Quote

1. Going to a counsellor, even a Baptist minister, would mean the possibility that non-Gothard thoughts could be part of the sessions.

THIS. No credible counselor could take a look at the Duggar family system and wave it all off as benign. The outside world would creep in, the very stilted house of cards they live in would fall. They shocking idea that Josh needs to individuate from his parents is shocking to them.

Maybe they could throw Josh a J-Rod style 'living death' funeral, then never speak of him again. I'm ashamed to say I'd watch the hell out of that, TLC.

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Wellfleet

Wellfleet

21 hours ago, auntieminem said:

Hmmm,  wonder what "professional means to them?  

Statement from Josh and Anna.  http://www.duggarfamily.com/2016/5/a-statement-from-josh-and-anna-duggar

Excellent question. To the Duggars, it's probably as simple as meaning someone they've had to pay. Not necessarily trained, qualified and/or accredited for whatever the task at hand was. Just someone they had to pay.

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DangerousMinds

DangerousMinds

8 hours ago, allonsyalice said:

I'm actually not sure what they are trying to say at all.

Screen Shot 2016-05-28 at 8.37.54 AM.png

I still can't get over the mention of the "long family weekend," as someone else already pointed out. Who are they kidding? They don't work so 3-day weekends do not apply to them at all.

4 hours ago, Marigold said:

I agree with Absolom. I think that Cross Church minister is involved somehow. 

Years back, Jim Bob was very isolated from any churches. They home churched. Period. I notice they are interacting with actual churches now.  There are a few photos of them at a church once in a while.  Girls got married in a local church. So, it is a possibility that a real live minister with some actual training is working with Josh and Anna. That would be good news for all of them. 

Have Josh and Anna ever even attended Cros Church?

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Arwen Evenstar

Arwen Evenstar

(edited)
7 hours ago, Marigold said:

I'm sure that is part of it.

And they need a church to film the girls getting married. And a minister.  Jim Bob realized he has a problem isolating himself like that so he got his hairspray head into a church and made nicey-nice with the ministers. After church, I bet he sits everyone down on the crazy sofas and then tells them everything the minister said that was wrong. They all nod in agreement.  

Whatever the motive, it's good for the kidults that they have a bit more access to rational people. 

 

Edit to add: Cross church has a group for Joshie! 

http://crosschurch.com/groups/celebrate-recovery/117/

Boob is not AFIK an ordained minister. He can't officiate a wedding, so he had to find a local minister.  Does anyone know why there's a Church of Boob in lieu of them going to an actual church, or is it all about Boob wanting to control his kids or does he think that he's the only one who "has it right"? 

Maybe because he's too cheap to tithe or give any money at all to any church, despite grifting for love offerings to feed his quivers? Anyone got any history on that,

Edited by Arwen Evenstar
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cmr2014

cmr2014

15 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Maybe because he's too cheap to tithe or give any money at all to any church, despite grifting for love offerings to feed his quivers? Anyone got any history on that,

This has always been my belief. They were more than happy to live off of "love offerings" from the church for years, but when the TLC gravy train stopped at their door, God "laid it on" JB's heart to start his own church. His return to Cross Church at the same time that the show was cancelled may be just coincidence, but it doesn't look that way to me.

It's also possible that he has discovered the complete isolation is hindering the marriage prospects (and the TLC specials) for the older kids.

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Arwen Evenstar

Arwen Evenstar

(edited)
54 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

This has always been my belief. They were more than happy to live off of "love offerings" from the church for years, but when the TLC gravy train stopped at their door, God "laid it on" JB's heart to start his own church. His return to Cross Church at the same time that the show was cancelled may be just coincidence, but it doesn't look that way to me.

It's also possible that he has discovered the complete isolation is hindering the marriage prospects (and the TLC specials) for the older kids.

Thanks for the background info, everyone.  CMR, you're possibly right about the isolation bit.  Half a dozen unmarried, uneducated adult kids still feasting at the Duggar teat. I guess when Boob and JChelle went on this mission to "have as many children as possible". I guess they never made the connection that kids had a cost associated with them...Boob's cheap head must be exploding since he's got all these weddings to pay for and soon the TLC gravy train is running out.  Isolation keeps his cheap ass from paying for weddings, but it also keeps the JSlaves at the trough.  Guess that's what happens, Boob, looks like your attempts to  control everyone and everything have come back to bite you in the ass!

Had you let your kids have an education and learn a real life skill to make a living, they'd be self sufficient and making and paying their own way.

Edited by Arwen Evenstar
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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

Part of a therapist's job is to understand a client's beliefs and respect those beliefs while working with them. 

Any licensed clinician or educated counselor would never let their own personal bias enter the therapeutic relationship. Many clinicians may find they couldn't work with someone like the Duggars, but it is part of their professional duty to refer them to someone who can.

But I wonder, because the Duggars have such a hard time trusting non-Fundies in everyday life, how they would trust a non-Fundy professional therapist in such an intimate way.

  • Love 6
Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

 

Any licensed clinician or educated counselor would never let their own personal bias enter the therapeutic relationship. Many clinicians may find they couldn't work with someone like the Duggars, but it is part of their professional duty to refer them to someone who can.

 

Why do I picture them visiting about 200 therapists before they find one who's so hard of hearing that he or she doesn't figure out what their beliefs actually are?

Seriously, I'm sure they aren't going to any therapist based in the secular world or in any organization that requires formal education. I'm sure there are plenty of people around who counsel fundie and even "biblical patriarchy" people for a living, and since they do it for a living, they can claim that it's a "profession." We all know God don't require no stinking education or training. Not for electricians and not for therapists. (He and the Duggars seem to make an exception for emergency medicine, though. Wonder why that is? ha)

Edited by Churchhoney
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tenativelyyours

tenativelyyours

What gets me about the posting that tells of the 'therapy' is how it is all we this and we that.  Yet when it actually mentions even in a remove the reasons for the need to work on their marriage not a single pronoun.  So careful to avoid the actual reason and making sure by using the whole "we" approach to the matter it manages to pull Anna in as if she shares a full half of the "blame".  Yet he never once identifies himself singly as the reason.  What a pig.  I bet Boob spent hours coming up with that crafted message.  I wonder how many of their female fans are wondering just what the hell Anna as the other half that "we" needs God's forgiveness in terms of this particular fall from grace?  I hope at least a few are getting a better grip on how things are playing out in bringing the family complete with Josh back to the land of celebrity.  Boob and Josh both I suspect are going to 'we' this in hopes enough people stop remembering it was all 'him'.

  • Love 10
Albanyguy

Albanyguy

13 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Boob is not AFIK an ordained minister. He can't officiate a wedding, so he had to find a local minister.  Does anyone know why there's a Church of Boob in lieu of them going to an actual church, or is it all about Boob wanting to control his kids or does he think that he's the only one who "has it right"? 

Maybe because he's too cheap to tithe or give any money at all to any church, despite grifting for love offerings to feed his quivers? Anyone got any history on that,

I think you nailed it; it's a combination of both cheapness and an inability to give up control to anyone for any reason.

Anyone can go online and become an ordained minister, legally empowered to perform weddings, for a very modest fee. My cousin got married last year and the groom's best friend/college roommate got himself ordained so he could perform the ceremony. Some of the relatives were upset at the idea of someone who wasn't a "real" minister officiating, but he did a great job; by the time he was through, there wasn't a dry eye in the house.  I wonder why Jim Bob didn't go that route so that he could officiate at the weddings of Josh, Jill and Jessa? You'd think that would be right up his alley. He could be the star of the show, stealing all the attention away from the bride and groom, and have a captive audience to listen to him bloviate about his ideas on marriage.

  • Love 8
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Arwen Evenstar

Arwen Evenstar

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22 hours ago, zoomama said:

without getting too preachy here, God does forgive if we repent and ask for forgiveness. God did not tell someone to let the cat out of the bag -- He does not control us like puppets. He gives us each free will to make good and bad decisions. then, when we realize we were wrong AND seek forgiveness ALONG WITH changing our bad behavior, God then blesses us with His forgiveness.  the point is to change and not keep doing the wrong behaviors.

that is what my faith and Bible study tell me.

Agree with you.  Only God really knows if Smuggar is truly remorseful for what he's done, or if he's only feeling shame for getting caught. Both scandals came out with a very public backlash. I don't know about anyone else, but had I been faced with a sex scandal of any kind, I'd be embarrassed to show my face anywhere I might be recognized and I was brought up that sex is nothing at all to be ashamed of...so I can only imagine how the Smuggs must feel. Granted, playing doctor with your sisters (trying to be polite) when you're 14 and having sex with hookers and porn stars is a bit more scandalous than what most people would do.

Many marriages have survived infidelity, so with 4 kids and neither one could survive on their own and limited income, they know at least for now, things aren't well since all Josh succeeded in doing was put some distance between them, and now it's time to face the music

Dear Smuggar,

I'm sure you know that many people think you're a lying, hypocritical dirtbag, who should thank your lucky stars that your wife even wants to try to give you a second chance. Now that I've got that out of the way, you're in for a lot of work if you want to prove yourself worthy of her.

  1. RU was not treatment, really.  You were sent there to keep Anna from running away or making any hasty decisions. Boob was hoping putting time and distance between the two of you so she could cool off. You need not only REAL couples counseling, but also REAL one on one counseling to deal with individual issues.
  2. RU didn't prepare you to face Anna. Her heart is broken.  You took something beautiful and you destroyed it with your entitled, selfish, Smuggarly ways. Own it and fix it.
  3. Get up off your loathsome, spotty behind and help your wife with the house and the kiddos. No matter what Gothard says, leadership does NOT equate to lordship.  Instead of carrying her across the threshold on your wedding night, you made her schlep your luggage. You want to turn your wife on? A man helping his wife with the house, kids, and cooking is all the porn she'll ever need!
  4. Headship is not a given.  Authority always comes with responsibility, and your responsibility is to "love your wife as Christ loves the church".  That's a tall order in itself and it means SACRIFICIAL love (as in putting her needs ahead of your Smuggarly ways). Wifely submission is supposed to mean that she knows you will always do what is best for her and the family because you have come to decisions after much contemplation and prayer, not because you said so and she must abide.
  5. Man up! You're not a man by virtue of what God put between your legs, you're a man by what you DO. Headship means nothing if you can't back it up by being a decent and godly man, husband, and father. A man who's "the man" doesn't have to act like a smug asshat to prove it...he shows by his actions that he does what is just and fair and right and people know that he's "the man" and wish to emulate him as a living example.
  6. Not getting enough? That's not all Anna's fault! Do you really expect a wife who runs around after 4 kids under the age of six, homeschooling them, and doing everything else, might just be too worn out to cheerfully put out?  I LOVE sex, but when I'm that tired, not in the mood.  Lighten her load so she can have enough energy left to give you some quality time. 
  7. Love porn? Clearly, we understand your lack of a meaningful sex education and repressed upbringing has fed your hunger for porn. We get it...had Daddy bought you a Playboy and let you pull your pud now and again, maybe you wouldn't be the way you are.  Porn debases women and teaches men that women like this.  It is NOT sex education because it doesn't teach intimacy and respect. Anna deserves to receive sexual pleasure as well; its not all about YOU. A man who knows how to please his wife should have no need to go elsewhere or look at porn. Figure out what makes her tick and do it!
  8. Lastly, wipe that smug look off your face and realize you now have no right to judge anyone else. Most of us heathens got thru life without groping siblings, cheating on their spouse, and paying for sex. You're only forgiven if you're really sorry for what you did.
  9. You're not "all that", so get over yourself. You're not a hottie, you're unemployable, but worst of all you're smug.  You are totally not a catch, at least not the way you are right now.
  10. You can still redeem yourself, provided you remain humble and decent and treat Anna like the queen she is. Until you can do that, no matter who's watching or not or whether the cameras a rerolling or not, you'll never come close to deserving her.

Ok...rant over..

  • Love 36
sometimesy

sometimesy

Maybe they are working with a real professional that joined the fundy world after years as a mainstream professional. Who knows, but they have improved in their public statements. Focus on the family as a whole, who is going to snark on Anna and the 'sweet children'? So PR? Research? Adapting? 

Arwen Evenstar, that advice is probably great for a man that really loves a woman, feels remorse (not regret at being caught), and doesn't live in the patriarchal world. Josh may be able to fake some of that for a while, but how long will he stay on the cross without some profit (fame, money). Add to that, the challenge of having someone like whimpering Anna on his junk to get another blessing, then add dealing with  'thinkpol'.  Right now, it's probably something of a 'honeymoon' phase and they have some ideas and hope for the future. If the redemption tour fails.... 

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Missy Vixen

Missy Vixen

17 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

 

It's also possible that he has discovered the complete isolation is hindering the marriage prospects (and the TLC specials) for the older kids.

I don't think it's the marriage prospects so much as it is the financial ones. Jim Boob can grift and grift from congregations all over the country as the Duggars tell their story of "persecution" by those who are "led by Satan" to oppose their TeeVee program and its sponsors. 

They didn't end the home church due to "traveling". I'm willing to bet that they ended the home church due to the fact that it was a matter of time before those who attended started talking about the things discussed there. I would also be curious to know if those in the home church were nervous about finding themselves the subject of inquiry re: Joshley Madison and his little problems, which I can guarantee was a topic of discussion.

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Missy Vixen

Missy Vixen

6 hours ago, tenativelyyours said:

So careful to avoid the actual reason and making sure by using the whole "we" approach to the matter it manages to pull Anna in as if she shares a full half of the "blame".  Yet he never once identifies himself singly as the reason.  What a pig.  I bet Boob spent hours coming up with that crafted message. 

Another thought: Jim Boob is also ensuring that he's painting Anna with the same brush. This has a dual purpose. 

1. "What did ANNA do to make him cheat? Maybe she isn't a very good wife!"

2. If Anna ever wakes up some morning, decides she's had enough and hits the road, he's already poisoned public sentiment toward her and it will be easier for Joshley Madison to get custody...

Of course, my opinion.

  • Love 2
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