Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[LocalGovt]

2 minutes ago, Aja said:

Lol! We're not talking about Pulitzer Prize-winning journalists, here. Probably had the thesaurus open to "said". :D

I'm thinking that word "gushed" is a clue to who said it...they used it twice in the article...now....who do we know in Duggarland who gushes??

[Aja]

Just now, LocalGovt said:

I'm thinking that word "gushed" is a clue to who said it...they used it twice in the article...now....who do we know in Duggarland who gushes??

Does Famy gush? I know she's a LUSH....

[Sew Sumi]

47 minutes ago, LocalGovt said:

I'm thinking that word "gushed" is a clue to who said it...they used it twice in the article...now....who do we know in Duggarland who gushes??

*cough*Famy*cough*

eta: Gushing also implies a phone conversation, rather than emails or texts. I'm sure Famy made herself available to the tabloids not long afterJoshgate I. It could also be Dill; he has had some publicly choice words about Smuggar.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[Wellfleet]

1 hour ago, Aja said:

Does Famy gush? I know she's a LUSH....

Exactly - has to be Famy.

[Arwen Evenstar]

The tabloids are already buzzing that Smuggs wants his own reality show.

Let's see what that would look like.

• Smuggs sits around like milk fed veal demanding Anna wait on him hand and foot because...headship
• Attempting to excuse his actions...because Satan
• Why Anna and his family should trust him..because Jesus
• RU and ALERT were legitimate therapies...because Gothard
• Chuck-FIL-a wrappers everywhere...because greedy
•  Nincompoop Anna frozen in headship gaze...because nincompoop 
• Watching Josh struggle with fitness...because lazy
• Preparation for Redemption Tour...because grifter 
• Anna gives birth on the toilet again to M5...because Obamacare
• Talking about why public should forgive him...because Speshul 

Even with all of this going on and all the hate watching and snark that would result...it would still be boring...unless he and Anna ran away from the compound

[Arwen Evenstar]

4 hours ago, Aja said:

Does Famy gush? I know she's a LUSH....

The only thing that gushes out of Famy is verbal diarrhea. 

[GeeGolly]

All these articles do, IMO, is read this forum, then change what we speculate about into a story.

[Missy Vixen]

On 5/24/2016 at 7:38 PM, Celia Rubenstein said:

I remember the "sin in the camp" rumors at TWoP and when they started building steam again, I was sure it was all a lot of nonsense.  I came here and was answering a pm, telling someone I thought it was probably going to turn out that Josh had got caught holding hands or something and it was all being blown out of proportion by the Fundy Police. He responded back quickly suggesting I go read the thread.  Ha haa!  Boy was I wrong!   There was already nine pages posted about it by the time I found out.  I could barely keep up with all the posts.    

I was the reason TWOP instituted the paragraph-long scolding at the top of the former 19KAC forum re: "Stop saying that CPS (or Arkansas' version of it) should investigate the Duggars." Nice to know I had that kind of power. :eyeroll:

Mostly, I feel badly for the M kids. They're never getting away from this.

[sometimesy]

1 minute ago, Missy Vixen said:

I was the reason TWOP instituted the paragraph-long scolding at the top of the former 19KAC forum re: "Stop saying that CPS (or Arkansas' version of it) should investigate the Duggars." Nice to know I had that kind of power. :eyeroll:

Mostly, I feel badly for the M kids. They're never getting away from this.

Another generation, we'll see. 

Josh must be held now with some residual RU shit, but if he couldn't handle his father's control, it is going to be difficult to submit to Anna the dingbat. Of course if he goes on a redemption tour he will need her as a teary eyed prop.  He should include her as a forgiveness example and she can tell the story of how she trusts him completely and he gets his phone back. 

[kokapetl]

12 minutes ago, Missy Vixen said:

I was the reason TWOP instituted the paragraph-long scolding at the top of the former 19KAC forum re: "Stop saying that CPS (or Arkansas' version of it) should investigate the Duggars." Nice to know I had that kind of power. :eyeroll:

Mostly, I feel badly for the M kids. They're never getting away from this.

They went from individual bedrooms in their own house to a section of the girls' dorm partitioned off by a rack of clothes, and daddy dissapeared for 6 months. I can only imagine the pack of lies they've been told.   

[Sew Sumi]

Poor Mack has probably already been guilted into the Sinner's Prayer. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

49 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Poor Mack has probably already been guilted into the Sinner's Prayer. 

Sins of the father?

[Sew Sumi]

Is she old enough to understand that? Even if she isn't, I am sure that Koka is right, and that they HAVE drilled that kind of crap into the MKids' heads. :(

[Arwen Evenstar]

Sew Sumi...no doubt ...you aren't far from the mark

[Micks Picks]

Mckensie is behind the curve here.  David Waller claims he was born again at 3 yrs old and just last week JillR said her 4 year old was saved.  This was of their own volition, apparently, or so we are to believe, making Mckensie behind the times.  These are the same people who don't believe in infant baptism but do believe in loading so much guilt and sin into the heads of their toddlers that they reprint and beg to be saved.

[Sew Sumi]

It's possible that Mack was already "saved" before Joshgate, but they were still under the auspices of the FRC at that time. Even for that group, trying to reach out to more moderate types, that would seem a little bit creepy, especially as they were pimping Smugs as a guy who was going to bring the younger voters. 

[queenanne]

I was in the office.  I remember it distinctly because I commented upon the news story to the receptionist, all of the flashback kids wending their way around like the Pied Piper's victims in red frumpers.

[SometimesBites]

7 hours ago, Missy Vixen said:

Mostly, I feel badly for the M kids. They're never getting away from this.

Too true. It would be bad to have Jim Bob and Michelle as parents. But to have Smuggs and Anna as parents...god. Talk about FML.

[Churchhoney]

7 hours ago, SometimesBites said:

Too true. It would be bad to have Jim Bob and Michelle as parents. But to have Smuggs and Anna as parents...god. Talk about FML.

I don't know. While I wouldn't want to be a Duggar or a Duggar adjacent in any way, shape or form, I think I'd much rather have Josh and Anna as parents. They're more human and do seem to be conscious of their kids' existence and kind of like and care about them in their own ways (imperfect as those ways may be).

For me, much much better to have parents who fuck up in human ways but kinda sorta like kids than people to whom kids exist only for brainwashing purposes and as props in some kind of imaginary drama of parental perfection. Among other things, once the parents -- in this case, Josh -- have visibly screwed up in a way that the whole world can see and acknowledge, that can open the door for the kids to stop idolizing that person and get some room to develop their own thoughts and personalities. Openings to do that are one of the most important things that kids in a confining world like the Duggars' can get, I think.

Meanwhile, with JB and M as parents -- and living in the fundie leghumper world where they are unaccountably idolized -- there's so so little opportunity for the Duggarlings to see beyond those two massive mental-space hogs and the prison they've created. Obviously, it's my bias -- but I'd bet that for most people a lifetime of "nearly impossibly trapped" is much unhappier than a lifetime of "yeah, my dad is a giant sleazy cheat and a loser."

Edited May 27, 2016 by Churchhoney

[MamaMax]

On 5/25/2016 at 9:06 PM, jschoolgirl said:

Imagine being 27 or so and being "not allowed to have" a phone!  Or anything, for that matter.

I imagine it's Jizm Bob and Mechelle's call, not Anna's, which is even more pathetic.

 

That brings up a question in my mind... Was Josh his own headship? Since he was the man? So if he can't be his own headship now (is that a rule?) then is he back under JimBob's? And would Anna and the kids be under JB too?

[Arwen Evenstar]

Churchie, if could like your post a million times, I would!!!

What a FU to Boob that people would prefer a sister fondling, porn addicted, hooker patronizing asshat as a father over Boob. At least the Smuggarlings (adorable that they are) have a better chance of a normal upbringing over their aunties and uncles.

Is "sin in the camp" Duggarese for actually attempting to have a normal life? Depriving your kids of education and exploration and normal childhood and adolescent experiences creates a vacuum that ends up creating monsters at worst or emotionally stunted childults with no idea how to function in the real world at best.

Add me to list of those who'll also take Smugganna as parents any day over BoobChelle. At least I'd be allowed to be a kid and an individual since Smuggs for all his slimy ways knows part of the reason he is the way he is has come from his wretched upbringing in a cult of male privilege and superiority with no regard for children, except as arrows in their quiver.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Arwen Evenstar
Cuz I felt like it

[jschoolgirl]

Quote

knows part of the reason he is the way he is has come from his wretched upbringing in a cult of male privilege and superiority with no regard for children, except as arrows in their quiver.

I am not so sure of that.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, MamaMax said:

 

That brings up a question in my mind... Was Josh his own headship? Since he was the man? So if he can't be his own headship now (is that a rule?) then is he back under JimBob's? And would Anna and the kids be under JB too?

Well, looking at these "biblical patriarchy" families -- which are really kind of a new thing as an ideology, something that hasn't gone far beyond the first generation of offspring attaining adulthood, for the most part -- it seems to me that, while the males supposedly become the heads of their own households, the fathers who originally joined this movement tend to retain a headship-in-all-but-name over all their kids, including the males, pretty much forever.

I guess that's because the first guys to join these cults were mostly egomaniacs. And they may say that the rules make the next-generation males true heads of their own households. But when it comes to really letting them go their own ways, the big-daddy ego of the first guys in seems to prevent it pretty much.

In this way, I don't think the Josh situation is much different from most of the others. He was (and is, I expect) allowed to be the boss of Anna and the M kids. But since he's got a major boss of his own, who undoubtedly tells him how to boss Anna and the M kids, his headship never did amount to much compared to Jizm Bob's, I would suppose. He'd always get precedence over Anna as headship, certainly, because women aren't ever ever ever going to be allowed in that position. But in these egomania-spawned familes, the original egomaniac is always going to be HBIC, even after the supposedly headship-worthy young males grow up.

Josh probably gets more scrutiny from JB than some of the young guys. But I doubt that JB would ever truly have seen him as a "patriarch" in his own right, even if he'd never committed any verboten sex acts. That's one of the things that'll make "biblical patriarchy" a not-very-long-lived ideology/"theology," I'll bet. How many guys are going to want dad being Mr. Bigshot in the whole family decades after they've grown up and had families of their own? I don't see how it can long be a very attractive way of life to anybody except the first guy in each family who got involved.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Churchhoney

[sometimesy]

Wonder if a redemption tour will succeed. 

[lulu69]

44 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

 And they may say that the rules make the next-generation males true heads of their own households. But when it comes to really letting them go their own ways, the big-daddy ego of the first guys in seems to prevent it pretty much.

Speaking as a 3rd gen Italian from a patriarch oriented family (catholic, egads...), I can say that the son usually doesn't truly achieve headship until the senior headship dies.

Edited May 27, 2016 by lulu69

[SometimesBites]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I don't know. While I wouldn't want to be a Duggar or a Duggar adjacent in any way, shape or form, I think I'd much rather have Josh and Anna as parents. They're more human and do seem to be conscious of their kids' existence and kind of like and care about them in their own ways (imperfect as those ways may be).

For me, much much better to have parents who fuck up in human ways but kinda sorta like kids than people to whom kids exist only for brainwashing purposes and as props in some kind of imaginary drama of parental perfection. Among other things, once the parents -- in this case, Josh -- have visibly screwed up in a way that the whole world can see and acknowledge, that can open the door for the kids to stop idolizing that person and get some room to develop their own thoughts and personalities. Openings to do that are one of the most important things that kids in a confining world like the Duggars' can get, I think.

Meanwhile, with JB and M as parents -- and living in the fundie leghumper world where they are unaccountably idolized -- there's so so little opportunity for the Duggarlings to see beyond those two massive mental-space hogs and the prison they've created. Obviously, it's my bias -- but I'd bet that for most people a lifetime of "nearly impossibly trapped" is much unhappier than a lifetime of "yeah, my dad is a giant sleazy cheat and a loser."

To be honest, when I made that post late last night it was after a fleeting thought about what it would be like to have Smuggs and Anna as parents--a sleazy, lying, know-it-all, sister-molesting bigot and a doe-eyed, half-bright, self-righteous doormat--and in the moment I was so repulsed by the thought that they seemed even worse than Jiz and Me-Me-Me. In reality, of course, they're ALL nightmare parents. It's sort of like asking if you'd rather eat week-old roadkill or undergo gallbladder surgery sans anesthesia: sometimes all options are hideous.

Echh. Even thinking about living with any of these people makes me want a hot shower and a dose of Noam Chomsky.

Edited May 27, 2016 by SometimesBites

[Sew Sumi]

After this shaming, who knows how their "rules" work. I put that in quotes because I have zero doubts that what they are doing to Smugs now is anything close to biblical. Ironic, considering they say that are so godly, yadda yadda yadda...

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, SometimesBites said:

To be honest, when I made that post late last night it was after a fleeting thought about what it would be like to have Smuggs and Anna as parents--a sleazy, lying, know-it-all, sister-molesting bigot and a doe-eyed, half-bright, self-righteous doormat--and in the moment I was so repulsed by the thought that they seemed even worse than Jiz and Me-Me-Me. In reality, of course, they're ALL nightmare parents. It's sort of like asking if you'd rather eat week-old roadkill or undergo gallbladder surgery sans anesthesia: sometimes all options are hideous.

Echh. Even thinking about living with any of these people makes me want a hot shower and a dose of Noam Chomsky.

 

Yep, they're a really bad game of "Would you rather..." all right! And then when you think that not only do they subject children to their horrors but they subject many many children to them. It's just the way you suggest -- whichever one you're looking at at the moment kinda seems to be the worst. But then you look at another one ...

Edited May 27, 2016 by Churchhoney

[auntieminem]

Hmmm,  wonder what "professional means to them?  

Statement from Josh and Anna.  http://www.duggarfamily.com/2016/5/a-statement-from-josh-and-anna-duggar

[ginger90]

2 minutes ago, auntieminem said:

Hmmm,  wonder what "professional means to them?  

Statement from Josh and Anna.  http://www.duggarfamily.com/2016/5/a-statement-from-josh-and-anna-duggar

No clue what it means to them. I think using  the word was a suggestion by a PR person, though.

[Churchhoney]

10 minutes ago, auntieminem said:

Hmmm,  wonder what "professional means to them?  

Statement from Josh and Anna.  http://www.duggarfamily.com/2016/5/a-statement-from-josh-and-anna-duggar

Probably not much. If has four syllables.

[OpieTaylor]

16 minutes ago, auntieminem said:

Hmmm,  wonder what "professional means to them?  

Statement from Josh and Anna.  http://www.duggarfamily.com/2016/5/a-statement-from-josh-and-anna-duggar

It cracks me up that the statement starts with "as we enter into a long family weekend together." I assume they're referring to the Memorial Day long weekend? As if Josh, or any of the Duggars, have jobs with designated day-off holidays! 

[bigskygirl]

I think the professional counseling is coming from JB and Michelle, Derick, or even Benjermin since they seem to think they are experts. And why are they so hang up on everything is all fine and dandy because God forgave him? Really...Seriously... Once a lying, hypocritical dirt bag who thinks he got away with it and hides behind his family and God... Does he realize God told the people behind the telling of his secrets he was hiding for years to let the cat out of the bag. Maybe God wanted people to know what a scum bag he really is.

[whydoiwatch]

When the Smuggars release these "statements", WHO are the intended recipients? I remember asking this same exact question once before when these idiots felt the need to issue a statement. They just don't get it, no one cares. The majority of contributors to this forum are here to snark and wait for the next flip flop to drop.  Of course there are the leghumpers, but I have never been convinced that there are very many of them and I have wondered if some of them are actually the Duggars themselves. This clan has shown they will do anything to stay relevant. 

[JoanArc]

I think this there way of keeping their names in the headlines. It's also trolling for a new spinoff. 

Some one screenshot it so we can see if they can be it for sympathy.

Its also Friday on a holiday weekend. The wrong time to release statements. It's take out the trash day, not look at us day.

[lulu69]

26 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Its also Friday on a holiday weekend. The wrong time to release statements. It's take out the trash day, not look at us day.

Nope, they got it right; take out the trash day lol

[babyhouseman]

Gothard is probably the counselor, the single man with no children.

[Arwen Evenstar]

9 hours ago, jschoolgirl said:

I am not so sure of that.

Well, according to Gothard, everything ends up being the woman's fault, foul temptresses that we are...the men in Gothards world enjoy headship, superiority over women, and little responsibility for their bad behavior. 

His repressed screwed up upbringing didn't help...the way he is can't be blamed entirely on it tho.

[NewDigs]

3 hours ago, OpieTaylor said:

It cracks me up that the statement starts with "as we enter into a long family weekend together." I assume they're referring to the Memorial Day long weekend? As if Josh, or any of the Duggars, have jobs with designated day-off holidays! 

My first thought was that it should be read, " as we enter this loooooong family weekend..."

Big deal. Sit around and do a lot more nothing.

[Marigold]

I'm guessing that this professional counselor is from that Cross Church. The minister might have some training in counseling or an actual degree (dare we hope?). 

[kokapetl]

I hope the professional actually is a professional. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

30 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

I hope the professional actually is a professional. 

Of course, Koka.  Boob hired a professional counselor for an hour or two so they could all learn "how it's done"!

[lookeyloo]

Do we think there's any slim chance at all that either Smuggar realized what a crock his placement was and/or Anna has "slyly" researched things and realizes they need a real professional?  They didn't say "licensed" - just professional but maybe that person has a smart or two. That could take this all in a different direction. That's the optimist in me coming out. Realistically I don't think so. 

[allonsyalice]

13 hours ago, JoanArc said:

I think this there way of keeping their names in the headlines. It's also trolling for a new spinoff. 

Some one screenshot it so we can see if they can be it for sympathy.

Its also Friday on a holiday weekend. The wrong time to release statements. It's take out the trash day, not look at us day.

I'm actually not sure what they are trying to say at all.

Edited May 28, 2016 by allonsyalice

[Fuzzysox]

14 hours ago, JoanArc said:

I think this there way of keeping their names in the headlines. It's also trolling for a new spinoff. 

Some one screenshot it so we can see if they can be it for sympathy.

Its also Friday on a holiday weekend. The wrong time to release statements. It's take out the trash day, not look at us day.

Bingo! I call bull and they will never properly heal because they aren't allowed to have any real feelings. When you do have a "feeling" you have to suppress it while smiling and carrying on.

[NewDigs]

And I bet their idea of what defines a "professional marriage and family counselor" is a bit different than ours.

[Arwen Evenstar]

2 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

Do we think there's any slim chance at all that either Smuggar realized what a crock his placement was and/or Anna has "slyly" researched things and realizes they need a real professional?  They didn't say "licensed" - just professional but maybe that person has a smart or two. That could take this all in a different direction. That's the optimist in me coming out. Realistically I don't think so. 

I hope this "professional" whoever he or she is actually calls Smuggar to accountability for HIS behavior and finally someone who doesn't belong to their cult who can finally put a bug in his ear just how messed up his parents, cult, and upbringing actually are/were, and that he's a GROWN ASS man, who is accountable only to God, himself, and his little family, NOT Boob.  

[zoomama]

17 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

I think the professional counseling is coming from JB and Michelle, Derick, or even Benjermin since they seem to think they are experts. And why are they so hang up on everything is all fine and dandy because God forgave him? Really...Seriously... Once a lying, hypocritical dirt bag who thinks he got away with it and hides behind his family and God... Does he realize God told the people behind the telling of his secrets he was hiding for years to let the cat out of the bag. Maybe God wanted people to know what a scum bag he really is.

without getting too preachy here, God does forgive if we repent and ask for forgiveness. God did not tell someone to let the cat out of the bag -- He does not control us like puppets. He gives us each free will to make good and bad decisions. then, when we realize we were wrong AND seek forgiveness ALONG WITH changing our bad behavior, God then blesses us with His forgiveness.  the point is to change and not keep doing the wrong behaviors.

that is what my faith and Bible study tell me.

[Absolom]

I expect the most "professional" or more mainstream than ATI/RU they will go is a pastor at a local Baptist church.  If they go to an SBC pastor at least he will have a college education and may have actually taken a couple of classes in pastoral counseling. 

[cmr2014]

I, personally, see no scenario in which "counseling" involves anything other than Gothard wisdom booklets and sessions with JB and J'chelle.

1. Going to a counsellor, even a Baptist minister, would mean the possibility that non-Gothard thoughts could be part of the sessions.

2. I can't imagine that JB would be willing for them to take part in counseling sessions where he did not know what was being discussed.

3. JB and J'chelle have a "perfect" marriage. Why go anywhere else?