Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[GeeGolly]

Regardless of what Josh is up to at the Rockford rehab, I hope this casts that public eye on the place in a big way ! Forgetting for a moment the ludicrous nature of their "counseling" services, the warped men. vs. womens' chores, and the kerfuffle over whether or not anyone, including Josh, should be receiving public welfare money in a voluntary rehab program with NO credentials whatsoever, I'd really like to know if the people who go there for drug or alcohol addiction are first sent to a legit d/a center or hospital for medically supervised detox. 

 

This is some serious shit here - people die, literally DIE, without proper medical care during the detox process. It's not just shaking and sweating and seeing pink elephants or whatever - seizures, convulsions, strokes, heart attacks, and death are a reality, and far more common than you'd think. You just don't see a lot of people putting THAT in obituaries...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If an addiction includes benzodiazepines or alcohol a person would have to detox first because the risk of serious injury or death is real. Detoxes, in my area, are in separate facilities with medical staff where patients stay for 3 - 10 days before they are medically cleared for rehab. Any place that offers inpatient addiction services would know this or be in the news because as SP1066 said - this is serious shit.

[Darknight]

I just keep finding things in the "application" that make me laugh! The bold italics are of course mine....

Gee this sounds like bullshit

[becca3891]

I really feel that in this cult people know things that are going on with other members but they keep it within the cult.  I think that  not only did Pa Keller know about Josh's internet porn habit but JB & Michelle did too.  They try to keep it from going public but when it does the apologies come out and they're not as mad at the person as they are at the media responsible for making it known.  I still call BS on JB & Mechelle's statement of 'when we found out late last night'.  BS.   Pa Keller made David Waller put the internet usage promise as the second most important thing for a reason, he knew about Josh. This cult keeps secrets and tries to keep them secrets.  They prefer to deal with things 'in house' as they call it. 

I think they thought it was over years ago. I believe, based on Alice's report, that his confession to the church included his porn viewing and Boob and Mechelle told themselves they'd get him married off ASAP and he'd be fine. So I really do believe this blindsided them. Pa Keller's remarks to TFDW were not unusual in their belief system.

 

That said, yikes. Doesn’t exactly match with his more vanilla profiles but it wouldn’t surprise me that the mind set that these men have when they cheat that they think sex workers are for terrifying anyway, being whores and all (not my opinion).

I can easily believe Josh having a double standard where he feels contemptuous toward strippers and prostitutes and sees them as unworthy of respect. 

 

The Duggar females having to swim while fully dressed is ridiculous. Grown-ass men like Josh (et al) needing their wives to monitor their internet use is asinine. If a man can't manage himself in his everyday life without either being constantly policed or piling ever more draconian RULES on women, I'd say we maybe better switch to matriarchal societies. Change the rules and clamp down on the gender most often getting up to trouble. Maybe the Joshes of the world need a law that they must wear a bag over their heads at all times, except when in the shower alone, or when handcuffed to their own beds at night. Apparently these dudes cannot be trusted, and they seem to know it. If a man has a problem managing himself, then let him volunteer to restrict his own freedom--don't lay your twisted trip on me, though.

This is my favorite post in a long time! 

 

My fear is they will insist that Anna remain under someone's headship while Josh is gone.  Can't have a grown woman and four kids leading their own lives now, can we?  Will they make her move into the TTH?  This really, really sucks for her, no matter how you slice it. 

They definitely believe Anna needs a temporary headship, and I'm putting my money on her staying at the TTH. Boob is her umbrella of authority for now, the kids like playing with their aunts and uncles, and Jana, Jinger and Joy can be aunt moms in addition to sister moms. 

[CofCinci]

I think they thought it was over years ago. I believe, based on Alice's report, that his confession to the church included his porn viewing and Boob and Mechelle told themselves they'd get him married off ASAP and he'd be fine. So I really do believe this blindsided them. Pa Keller's remarks to TFDW were not unusual in their belief system.

I can easily believe Josh having a double standard where he feels contemptuous toward strippers and prostitutes and sees them as unworthy of respect.

This is my favorite post in a long time!

They definitely believe Anna needs a temporary headship, and I'm putting my money on her staying at the TTH. Boob is her umbrella of authority for now, the kids like playing with their aunts and uncles, and Jana, Jinger and Joy can be aunt moms in addition to sister moms.

The term "temporary headship" makes me so angry but you are right. For the next 6 months, if Josh lasts that long, JB will (micro)manage Anna and her children. Any autonomy gained from her experience in DC will be stripped away. JB will tell her and her children when to eat. JB will "suggest" what she'll do that day. He'll watch her like a hawk and limit her access to social media.

[Defrauder]

But what was he going to say? "I just used my credit card every month to peruse the site." ? After his earlier horrendous actions, he was dead in the water.

IMO, no amount of counseling, therapy, retreats, church going, can cure sexual predators. None.

I agree with you that Josh is a sexual predator.  Not because of the cheating specifically but because of what he did to his sisters (one of whom was 5 years old at the time) combined with his 'double life'.  And it wasn't just an ordinary run of the mill double life hypocrisy - he's the biggest hypocrite ever. I also seem to remember the answer to the question about how there are times when women are obligated to have sex with him.  I don't think that Josh has a conscience. He only has to pretend he has one.

[3girlsforus]

Right at the moment I'm not feeling it for Anna.  She has created her own destiny.  She should be paying somebody for childcare, not being a user of free help, offered by the husband or parents in law, but provided by the brothers and sisters in law.  If she still sees her way as so right, live it.  Grab it. Take it.

Really? No compassion for Anna? She is 6 weeks postpartum with 3 other kids to take care of and she just found out her husband has been cheating on her and paying for sex. If that was your sister would you tell her screw you - pay for help or would you want to help her?

[cheatincheetos]

[Oldernowiser]

Quoting becca3891 the old fashioned way, because IPads are rough with the quoting thing...

"I can easily believe Josh having a double standard where he feels contemptuous toward strippers and prostitutes and sees them as unworthy of respect."

No double standard. He has no respect for women, period.

The more I hear about this guy, the more I'm thinking full-on pathology, not just a perpetual adolescent acting out.

[Rancide]

I work in the Behavioral Health field. My work is with folks who carry a mental health diagnosis, and many of them have dual diags. I am very familiar with rehabs, supportive living and half-way houses in my area because many of them refer their clients to us. The rehabs in my area are staffed with folks who have certificates in addiction rehabilitation (many w/ addiction histories) and few, if any have any type of degree. Not one of the facilities I am familiar with has any medical staff or mental health staff, because the treatment models are different. Most addiction clients seek mental health therapy in addition to addiction counseling, and if psychiatric medication is indicated, they would be referred to a prescriber at a mental health agency, most likely by their therapist.

 

Not sure this place isn't a scam but it is not too far off from the norm. And many rehabs follow 12 step recovery which has a spiritual base to it.

 

Honestly, most rehabs in this country are a scam.  I get that AA/12-step have helped many people, and I don't begrudge those people their success or think it shouldn't be one treatment option, but the relentless focus on AA-type models in this country is facilitated by an outdated puritanical outlook towards addiction (you're a bad person!  It's your fault you can't stay clean!  You just don't want it badly enough!), an ignorant court system (tons and tons of people at AA/NA/etc are there on court order sent by judges who have bought in to the idea that addiction is the addict's "fault"), a failing health care system (doctors and drugs too expensive for you!  AA is CHEAP), and inertia (what other field of physical/mental/behavioral health is still using a model largely unchanged from the 1930s?).

 

Bottom line:  addiction treatment in this country is a mess.  I agree with you that the place Josh is going isn't too far off from the norm.  And that's a really, really sad thing.

[TaxNerd]

Gosh she might be pregnant. Wonder what Josh would do

A TRUE scandal would be Anna being four months pregnant when Joshie gets back from his six months in unrehab.

I can't imagine he was much more than in the way, so the six months will be good for her. Gives her a chance to see she really can live without him and off the kindness of others.

The whole thing reminds me of Carolyn Jessop's memoir where it was difficult to run away because the whole town conspired to keep her and her kids put.

[Churchhoney]

I don't find the strip club and paid sex parts implausible, just the part where Josh isn't sedentary. If he paid I think he would expect her to do all the work.

 

Me, too. I even believe the part where he tried to be aggressive and rough. The part I absolutely don't believe is where she says it's the scariest thing that ever happened to her. Please. That's pure embellishment, in my opinion. And a stupid embellishment at that, especially for someone who's lived on the seamy side of things. Not only is Josh a 200-pound weakling but he's a scared, blustering child who almost certainly could be easily intimidated by any woman who stood up for herself for half a minute. In the sex business, you're going to run across many many men with aggressive feelings toward women and who seek you out because they intend to act on them. Josh would have been far from the first. And there's no way that that hide-behind-daddy's-skirts, cry-when-he-leaves-momma 20-something wanna-be-lawyer lard-ass was the scariest she ever saw, by a long shot. She wants to sell newspapers, so she embroidered.

[TaxNerd]

Going back to the strip clubs, allegedly Josh said "Don't you know who my father is?"

Sounds to me like a possibility that JB knew and approved of these strip club visits. Maybe it was an outlet to sew his wild oats with the expectation of getting it out of his system before settling down in marriage.

If anyone should understand sex addiction, it's JB and Michelle. Where else would he get cash as a teen?

[sleekandchic]

Is it just me or do I see another Sierra "flamingo/stork" moment happening here? Don't these people mean to call themselves "Reformers Anonymous" - ???  It's Alcoholics Anonymous, Gamblers Anonymous etc. Not unanimous. Good grief.

 

Dear Celestial Magistrate, please make these hillbillies go to school. Real school - no Bibles or no "workbooks" allowed.

OMG, yes!!! I've been thinking the same thought since we first heard about Reformers UNANIMOUS, but was too afraid to mention it! LOL. I told myself that, surely, RU's people cannot be that uneducated, or clueless or ignorant, right? That they probably chose UNANIMOUS as an homage to "all for one, and one for all." Fat chance. Ha!

[Churchhoney]

Regardless of what Josh is up to at the Rockford rehab, I hope this casts that public eye on the place in a big way ! Forgetting for a moment the ludicrous nature of their "counseling" services, the warped men. vs. womens' chores, and the kerfuffle over whether or not anyone, including Josh, should be receiving public welfare money in a voluntary rehab program with NO credentials whatsoever, I'd really like to know if the people who go there for drug or alcohol addiction are first sent to a legit d/a center or hospital for medically supervised detox. 

 

This is some serious shit here - people die, literally DIE, without proper medical care during the detox process. It's not just shaking and sweating and seeing pink elephants or whatever - seizures, convulsions, strokes, heart attacks, and death are a reality, and far more common than you'd think. You just don't see a lot of people putting THAT in obituaries...

 

This reminds me of the movie "Ruthless People" where Bette Midler is abducted by two bumbling clowns who can't seem to get things right and keep lowering the ransom demand - she cries from her basement confines "I've been kidnapped by K-Mart !"

 

Seems like Josh has been sent to the K-Mart of rehabs. Thankfully, I think, it's just punitive for his cheating, the molestation, etc, and not for an addiction. The guy is a punk-ass punk, but he doesn't deserve to die. 

 

If the Rockford place said they could pray and work away your appendicitis, they'd be shut down in a heartbeat. I don't see how this is any different.

 

Maybe this should go in the JB and Michelle thread (?) but how do I reconcile them sending Josh (which is another matter altogether - he's an ADULT, for Pete's sake !)  to possibly the shittiest rehab on the face of the planet in a private plane ?

 

Mind meet boggled.

 

This group isn't just in Illinois, either. It appears to be in multiple states, although it's a little hard to tell. And they don't just claim that whatever it is they do works for addiction; they claim it works for a bunch of other things, too -- virtually anything you'd consider a problem, it looks like.

 

Here are some more websites. They make an effort to get involved with state juvenile-justice and criminal-justice systems, for example (don't know how successfully). And they claim people "cured" of a ton of things, including sex addiction. (although at least on this first site that I looked at, in Ohio, their video testimonies about this seem to be busted.

 

http://www.rustreetsboro.com/

http://www.reformu.com/

http://reformersrecovery.com/

 

You can see why Jim Bob would be attracted to this. They do it all. And they do it without any education, training, relevant experience (or IQ). Why, it's practically a miracle!

[Churchhoney]

Honestly, most rehabs in this country are a scam.  I get that AA/12-step have helped many people, and I don't begrudge those people their success or think it shouldn't be one treatment option, but the relentless focus on AA-type models in this country is facilitated by an outdated puritanical outlook towards addiction (you're a bad person!  It's your fault you can't stay clean!  You just don't want it badly enough!), an ignorant court system (tons and tons of people at AA/NA/etc are there on court order sent by judges who have bought in to the idea that addiction is the addict's "fault"), a failing health care system (doctors and drugs too expensive for you!  AA is CHEAP), and inertia (what other field of physical/mental/behavioral health is still using a model largely unchanged from the 1930s?).

 

Bottom line:  addiction treatment in this country is a mess.  I agree with you that the place Josh is going isn't too far off from the norm.  And that's a really, really sad thing.

 

Amen.

[frenchtoast]

Honestly, most rehabs in this country are a scam.  I get that AA/12-step have helped many people, and I don't begrudge those people their success or think it shouldn't be one treatment option, but the relentless focus on AA-type models in this country is facilitated by an outdated puritanical outlook towards addiction (you're a bad person!  It's your fault you can't stay clean!  You just don't want it badly enough!), an ignorant court system (tons and tons of people at AA/NA/etc are there on court order sent by judges who have bought in to the idea that addiction is the addict's "fault"), a failing health care system (doctors and drugs too expensive for you!  AA is CHEAP), and inertia (what other field of physical/mental/behavioral health is still using a model largely unchanged from the 1930s?).

 

Bottom line:  addiction treatment in this country is a mess.  I agree with you that the place Josh is going isn't too far off from the norm.  And that's a really, really sad thing.

Taking my reply to Small Talk

[lulee]

But wasn't he horrified at the thought that she might get pregnant and have an abortion?

But then it would be *her* sin, not his, according to the JBs of the world.

[Cherrio]

Worse yet, he doesn't regard the females in his life as entities. They are merely robots there to serve him. I choked on my laughter at the episode when Josh said he was going to check Derrick over to see if he could 'cut it' as a husband, and father. Give me a break... what pearls of wisdom does Josh have to impart to anyone? 

No wisdom, just a necklace. :)

[zenme]

If the stripper had the baby, JB and Michelle could just adopt it. Boom! 20 kids!

[Defrauder]

Someone who could publicly preach and make his life's work all about Family Values - all the while when he's actively trying to guarantee sex with someone else, frequenting strip club and is obsessed with porn is someone who can attack and have rough sex with a porn star, stripper.  There isn't any conscience there, it's all a facade. The five year old, the sisters, the actively seeking out strippers and porn stars all while claiming to be about the very opposite of these things.  You can not have a conscience and do that. 

[WhineandCheez]

I think it's safe to say if you beleive Jesus rode a dinosaur blue cross is not going to allow you to bill them

 

SNORT!!  I think that is written in the drop down menu on the Blue Cross website, when you look to see if a practitioner or facility is a provider!!

[FakeJoshDuggar]

Me, too. I even believe the part where he tried to be aggressive and rough. The part I absolutely don't believe is where she says it's the scariest thing that ever happened to her. Please. That's pure embellishment, in my opinion. And a stupid embellishment at that, especially for someone who's lived on the seamy side of things. Not only is Josh a 200-pound weakling but he's a scared, blustering child who almost certainly could be easily intimidated by any woman who stood up for herself for half a minute. In the sex business, you're going to run across many many men with aggressive feelings toward women and who seek you out because they intend to act on them. Josh would have been far from the first. And there's no way that that hide-behind-daddy's-skirts, cry-when-he-leaves-momma 20-something wanna-be-lawyer lard-ass was the scariest she ever saw, by a long shot. She wants to sell newspapers, so she embroidered.

Okay, I've looked for twenty minutes and I can't find the clip I'm looking for. Basically, it was when Anna was in Florida for Prissy and TFDW's wedding and they were having an awkward sex talk in the Keller's home. Anna said something to the effect of, "it'll be different than anything you've ever thought off..." and her eyes kind of bulged. Her body language was screaming, "it's not all it's cracked up to be!" And I've always assumed that it was just lousy. But now, as an admitted porn addict, I wonder what kind of porn Josh was into and if he took it as an instruction manual instead of entertainment. I don't mean to use arm chair psychology on Josh, but it's not a far jump to speculate that Josh took his pent up sexual frustrations out on women because of the Duggar's well documented stance on sexual repression mixed with patriarchal notions that amount to spousal rape.

Edited August 27, 2015 by FakeJoshDuggar

[NextIteration]

They make an effort to get involved with state juvenile-justice and criminal-justice systems

 

Oh baby jeebus, not another Teen Challenge!  (I'm a broken record on this particular cult.)

[Barbie]

That people magazine story on Anna might as well just say Anna's brother is the source.... 

Edited August 27, 2015 by Barbie

[cheatincheetos]

If the stripper had the baby, JB and Michelle could just adopt it. Boom! 20 kids!

If it's a girl they might name her Joshley Madison.

[JenCarroll]

Eventually the pressure on Josh to live in a way he really does not want will get to him, and he will leave.

 

Yeah, I think he will leave. But there will be a couple of babies before he does.

 

I may be in the minority but I think this is coming....I honestly don't think he's a complete moron. I think he's going to try and figure out how to get out of this mess and that breaking out and telling the "real" Duggar story might be the ticket. He'll "rehabilitate", write a book and hit all the morning shows. He's probably hoping he can take Anna with him but I think it'll happen with or without her. I think within the next 2 years he'll be "out".

  

Totally.

This place is a joke. I live right by that Walmart, I will be looking out for him.

Betting there are stringers for all the tabloids hanging out in that Walmart right now.

  

OMG, yes!!! I've been thinking the same thought since we first heard about Reformers UNANIMOUS, but was too afraid to mention it!

They chose Unanimous specifically to distinguish themselves from the various Anonymouses, of which they do not approve.

[kokapetl]

This whole "rehab" thing is preposterous. There's no actual addiction, Josh is just a selfish person. The jig is up, Josh can't get away with it anymore therefore he can't enjoy it anymore, why would he continue with it? This isn't like heroin.

[cheatincheetos]

Josh is able to toss around an adult "like a rag doll"? .... If that's so, it's the first thing in the whole mess that really truly surprises me. He looks like all flab to me. Especially his brain.

I could just see him yelling Bible verses about whores and devils and Jezebels while he's doing it too...like Cotton Mather in the first episode of WGN's Salem.

[PityFree]

But then it would be *her* sin, not his, according to the JBs of the world.

Mechelle would want to have a funeral service for it, though.

[Anne Elk]

I don't believe that Josh is a sociopath for one reason: because he's still there. 

 

He doesn't have a job anymore. His double life has been exposed, so he won't be Number One Son anymore. He knows that if he jumped ship right now, he could get a bestselling book and probably his own TLC special out of dishing dirt on his family and the cult, and there would be plenty of people willing to help him out financially. And he could get regular kinky sex and strip club visits. Instead, he chooses to stay in Nowhere, Illinois so he can work 9 hours a day and spend the rest of the time nattering about Jesus with former methheads, because .....?

 

If Josh didn't care about anyone but himself, he's already be out of there. 

Edited August 27, 2015 by Anne Elk

[JenCarroll]

Well, he's only been there a couple of days.

[Defrauder]

I'm surprised nothing happened sooner if he was going into strip clubs like that ALL THE TIME! and while there asking "Do you know who my father is???? !!!!!

I took that to mean - does my father come here often?  Or my father recommended this place- you know who he is.  Honestly, no joking.  Otherwise he would have said - do you know my show, my family, my mother and siblings?  

[kokapetl]

I think this "rehab" is Duggarspeak for "casting Satan out of Josh's heart."

JB and Michelle are too willfully ignorant (and probably too stupid) to understand that despite their fervent belief system, the dude is an adult male with a sex drive. Who for whatever reasons, wanted action on the side. But his parents IMO believe that if he's not totally onboard with the get-married-young-and-have-dozens-of-kids program? The ONLY explanation is: "He was invaded by Satan! So now we cast out Satan, and presto, he's back in the fold and we all live happily and famously ever after, cashing in again on our famous precious specialness."

Gag me.

Someone recently posted this link to an essay that I think everyone who's posting here should read if you haven't: My Ex Was Raised Like Josh Duggar - And Turned Out The Same. It's heartbreaking and important. Not saying that the Duggar parents, or Josh, did exactly what the article relates. But OMG does it illustrate the tragedy of these ignorant so-called Christians and the horrible mind games they put on their children around normal human sexual development. I understand that this isn't a subject we're supposed to discuss in detail here, and I'm fine with that, and hope this reference to an external source is OK.

As has been discussed already, Josh may be a perv (though at least his current peccadilloes only involve other adults as far as we know) or have some kind of sexual addiction/dysfunction. Or, he may mostly just be a guy who never had a chance to explore his developing sexuality before choosing to settle down and get married (instead, at age 20 he went along with the marriage his parents arranged, and didn't bolt out of the Duggar/Gothard cult).

But I believe that whatever the problem is, this joke of a "rehab" place isn't going to solve it.

Perhaps Josh is not as selfish as I thought. I can see how a person might write themselves off for failing to meet an impossible ideal and just start faking being "normal".

[Anne Elk]

I didn't mean that as a response to the posted article, Suz at Large! I was more responding to the comments that Josh is just a selfish asshole. Which he is indeed, but I think there's more going on than that.

 

That article was very interesting reading and thanks for posting it!

[Featherhat]

That's a really interesting article, it certainly helps clarify a few thoughts I've been having since the first scandal broke. I can totally see how it happens sometimes, if you are so repressed like that, your sexuality is going to explode or turn inward and warp inappropriately (or both).There's no excuse for what either of those boys did but it started with their parents.

 

And boy no wonder the Duggars thought it was such a common problem.

[CherryAmes]

I took that to mean - does my father come here often?  Or my father recommended this place- you know who he is.  Honestly, no joking.  Otherwise he would have said - do you know my show, my family, my mother and siblings?  

Fun though it might be to speculate that this might be the case in all seriousness I think he meant "hey my dad is an important man you must have heard of him" in an "are you impressed by me" way.  I think it's typical Duggar that JB is the name that gets pulled out when someone is trying to literally impress the pants of someone.

[AnJen]

Going back to the strip clubs, allegedly Josh said "Don't you know who my father is?"

Sounds to me like a possibility that JB knew and approved of these strip club visits. Maybe it was an outlet to sew his wild oats with the expectation of getting it out of his system before settling down in marriage.

If anyone should understand sex addiction, it's JB and Michelle. Where else would he get cash as a teen?

 

This reminds me of what I've read about Sex Ed in the Regency Era (yeah I'm that weird person who reads about that)...basically, sex before marriage was awful and dirty...for women. But the men expected their sons to 1) get out their sexual urges and 2) learn about this before marriage, so often a father or sometimes another older male mentor would take the teenaged boy to a brothel or to an older widow past childbearing years and they would learn to have sex basically. Sex without consequences, for them, because if the women at the brothel got pregnant it was all on them, they were the shamed party and the man had no part in it (society might look down on him if they knew, but he'd retain his status as long as he had money and charm); and the older widows couldn't get pregnant.

 

There are a lot of similar attitudes about marriage and sex and the roles of women among the Duggars, so it honestly wouldn't surprise me if JB kind of guided (ugh) Joshley into this type of thing. 

 

It's also interesting to note, that there's some research that suggests that there was a much higher rate of lesbianism than usual among Regency women, because while physical affection between couples was unacceptable until marriage, women could hold hands and kiss in public and be perfectly proper as friends, and it was not unheard of for women to share a bed with their friends while visiting each other (although this would depend on the status of the woman being visited; wealthy women would've had several bedrooms available, but poorer women would have shared a bed)

[cheatincheetos]

Wow, lots of rules. And they're very specific about what to bring. Good grief. Two forms of ID. Alarm clocks cannot have radio, CD or tape player included. "Ladies should not bring excessive amounts of clothing. Extras will be stored in an inaccessible location."

 

Those who are late do not get fruit cup! *whipcrack*

[bigskygirl]

Imo, I think Josh would have turned out this way even if he had a normal childhood, decent parents and less siblings. Yes, his parents and his religious upbringing certainly did not do him any favors, but he seems to be the type of guy who would have ended up this way even if he was allowed to date, go to school/college, have friends, hit the bars/strip joints, got married in his mid to late twenties, and only had two children.

[Julia]

I don't believe that Josh is a sociopath for one reason: because he's still there. 

 

He doesn't have a job anymore. His double life has been exposed, so he won't be Number One Son anymore. He knows that if he jumped ship right now, he could get a bestselling book and probably his own TLC special out of dishing dirt on his family and the cult, and there would be plenty of people willing to help him out financially. And he could get regular kinky sex and strip club visits. Instead, he chooses to stay in Nowhere, Illinois so he can work 9 hours a day and spend the rest of the time nattering about Jesus with former methheads, because .....?

 

If Josh didn't care about anyone but himself, he's already be out of there. 

 

I don't really understand Josh - the abusive MRAs in my life have tended to be pseudo- rather than anti-intellectual - but I'm not sure if his staying where he is really proves all that much. Because he turned into an enabled abuser, I think it's hard to look at the extent to which Josh's ability to negotiate the world is entirely bounded by Jim Bob's influence. I have trouble seeing a relationship between Josh and his dad - especially since Michelle seems to actually like Josh, which I don't think Jim Bob would even know how to ask for - where Josh wasn't constantly reminded that his only value is being Jim Bob's son.

 

I'm pretty sure Josh tells himself (and everyone else) that he got everything he got because he was just that damn awesome. I'm not convinced he believes it.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Julia

[cheatincheetos]

<A  clean  shave  and  combed  hair  is  required  daily.  No  facial hair is allowed>

 

So no bearded Jesus there?

[Featherhat]

That's really interesting AnJen. Like you I have an interest in historical sex ed during different time periods and classes. Do you have a reference for the lesbianism among young women? I'd love to study it in more detail. The part about older men taking boys to brothels etc was also fairly prevalent in the Victorian era, so then they could safely turn up to court a young women they weren't allowed to touch without exploding.

It's possible that JB tried something similar but I kind of doubt it, given that his reaction to the molestation was to send him out to do hard work so he will be too tired to have urges. But its possible given that he had cash and was away from his family for some time (presumably). But equally I could see his solution for Josh to pray more and confess his every thought given the way he was packed off to pray away the porn star for the next few weeks, in a place that decidedly doesn't seem keen on a little light sin on the side (as a strip club *might* be).

Actually it might have been more productive to pack Josh off to a discreet hotel with a strip club nearby (only very horrible for Anna if she found out) if they really aren't going to get therapy to address his issues.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Featherhat

[kathe5133]

Honestly, most rehabs in this country are a scam.  I get that AA/12-step have helped many people, and I don't begrudge those people their success or think it shouldn't be one treatment option, but the relentless focus on AA-type models in this country is facilitated by an outdated puritanical outlook towards addiction (you're a bad person!  It's your fault you can't stay clean!  You just don't want it badly enough!), an ignorant court system (tons and tons of people at AA/NA/etc are there on court order sent by judges who have bought in to the idea that addiction is the addict's "fault"), a failing health care system (doctors and drugs too expensive for you!  AA is CHEAP), and inertia (what other field of physical/mental/behavioral health is still using a model largely unchanged from the 1930s?).

 

Bottom line:  addiction treatment in this country is a mess.  I agree with you that the place Josh is going isn't too far off from the norm.  And that's a really, really sad thing.

This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yes!!!!!!!  Can't get into it on this forum, but I so agree.  Addiction is chategorized as a "disease" (and don't get me started on that.....).  It's the only "disease" recognized by medical professionals whose cure is:   "prayer".  Yeah.  That good old "magical thinking".  We all know that Josh will not get the help he needs in this so called "rehab".  But, perhaps since he will interact with other sex addicts, he may pick up some tips and tricks so he won't get caught next time. (If not charging sex sites to your personal credit card can be viewed as a "tip")

[kokapetl]

This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes!!!!!!! Can't get into it on this forum, but I so agree. Addiction is chategorized as a "disease" (and don't get me started on that.....). It's the only "disease" recognized by medical professionals whose cure is: "prayer". Yeah. That good old "magical thinking". We all know that Josh will not get the help he needs in this so called "rehab". But, perhaps since he will interact with other sex addicts, he may pick up some tips and tricks so he won't get caught next time. (If not charging sex sites to your personal credit card can be viewed as a "tip")

I think it will be mostly drug addicts, and they probably do benefit from being occupied for 6 months. Josh certainly is wasting his time though.

[CofCinci]

If the stripper had the baby, JB and Michelle could just adopt it. Boom! 20 kids!

Adoption is against the cult's values. Remember, Anna's brother reports that he was cast out because he adopted children.

When Jessa told the press that she wants to adopt, that was a subtle fuck you to her parents (as was the first kiss in private and pink dress).

[barbedwire]

In the People article I just read, all about Anna and her parents, it says Rebecca is going through a divorce.  Sad to hear that.  But it also said that 2 divorces would be SO hard on her parents, cuz one is just hard already.  Huh?  They wouldn't want their daughters out of bad relationships?  Esther and her lazy husband who is begging for donations while being a "missionary" in another country, that is ok?  Seriously wondering about the Kellers.

Adoption is against the cult's values. Remember, Anna's brother reports that he was cast out because he adopted children.

When Jessa told the press that she wants to adopt, that was a subtle fuck you to her parents (as was the first kiss in private and pink dress).

Perfect!  Jessa to the rescue!  She and Ben can adopt the baby, if there were one. 

 

/sarcasm off

[zenme]

Perfect!  Jessa to the rescue!  She and Ben can adopt the baby, if there were one.

 

/sarcasm off

 

They can name the child "Jezebel."

[Defrauder]

I have no trouble at all thinking that Josh is a sociopath.  Am I diagnosing him a sociopath? No.  However I can believe that he is one and not because he likes porn or strippers or having sex on the sly with others but because he can do all of that while preaching about purity and family values.  Added with his past I have no problem believing that he is a sociopath.  And as such he so humbly confesses after he is caught.   I do not think that any type of treatment will ever change him at this age. I believe others who have problems at all different ages are capable of positive change but they were not preaching purity while being the biggest hypocrites ever. 

[barbedwire]

They can name the child "Jezebel."

Right!  Cuz it is always the baby's fault and she should be reminded that she was not conceived in wedlock.

[WescottF1]

The person I know that works with this place has proudly proclaimed that they have saved many people from The Gay along with their addictions. So there is that too.

The church is extremely hard core. Women aren't allowed to wear pants or shorts, dating is highly frowned upon. They also have a private school attached to the church. The rehab "patients" are allowed to go to a Walmart nearby, which happens to be where I shop occasionally. Only the males can go though, and they ride a big bus with Reformers Unanimous painted on the side. I do not think they receive any state funding, especially right now given the financial position in IL. Rockford also has a true rehab facility staffed by doctors and actual therapists which is heavily supported by insurance and the state, so I don't think this place gets a dime.

 

I used to know a gal who graduated from North Love.  She and her twin sister were 25% of their graduating class of 8 people.  Shortly thereafter, their dad ran off with a woman he met at Bible study.