Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[GEML]

Anna was using an actual recognized curriculum. And she did use online college classes (probably not accredited ones, but at least something) to study early childhood education to prepare to homeschool. You can see just in the snippets on TV that she's a good teacher for young students. I don't know how things will go once they reach upper grades, but Josh's children will likely receive better educations than their parents.

[Skittl1321]

It's hard to top a toilet birth. 

However, best wishes for a safe delivery. 

The more I read about unmedicated births, the more I've learned toilets are quite common. Apparently, even in hospitals, they will sometimes recommend a woman sit on one because it feels comfortable.  (Hospitals do usually try to get you back to the bed before the baby comes out, but they aren't always successful.)

 

And in homebirths, in addition to it being a comfortable position, apparently those last pushes really do feel like "I have to GO now!" so why not be on the toilet?  More than once I've heard the final pushes be compared to pooping out the baby when people blog about unmedicated births.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Skittl1321

[kalamac]

Many years ago, as part of health class, I took a tour of the L&D ward of a nearby hospital. They had a birthing chair there that looked very similar to a toilet, but with an open space underneath for someone to catch the baby. The doctor giving the tour said she was disappointed more women weren't willing to try it, because it was a more natural position for giving birth.

I do hope Anna is able to do whatever is most comfortable for her, now that won't be any cameras around.

[Defrauder]

The Duggars in my opinion have been led astray by wolves in sheep's clothing.  They can not even trust exposing a knee to those they associate with lest they are tempted and lose control of themselves.  They do not trust their own children alone around the people they know.  As Jessa said in the interview they know a lot of families this kind of thing happens to and worse. It isn't the outside world they should fear but their own.  Like lost sheep following wolves they listen to the wolves voices now.  If they had the communication with God that they claim to they lose all credibility with me for God didn't 'lay it on their hearts' that their son was sneaking into the girl's room at night.    They're just lost at this point forcing their children to follow them lest they be led astray.

[Shopgirl406]

On the toilet birth issue - I had to use the toilet in the mid-stages of labor with my second one.  The position felt so natural I just rested there for quite a while.  I really think this position is ok - just not maybe to deliver in a germy little cramped bathroom.  I hope Anna has an easy birth and a quiet birth without cameras, mother-in-law, sister-in-laws and others.

[frenchtoast]

I looooved the birth ball. LOOOOVED it, and that's the same position. Let gravity help for once. 

 

Still, I wouldn't want to be filmed while I was laboring. And for that I feel sorry for Anna. I'm hoping she is comfortable and delivers safely. 

[truthtalk2014]

I'm just happy Jill is out of the country and won't be around to impart all her years of midwifery experience.  

[Aja]

That sounds good! I like Jackson Browne even if he's before my time. Somebody's Baby is good too. You could do something like that. She must be somebody's broodmare?

....cause she's so modest.

[frenchtoast]

Heads up folks, I just moved talk of a band to the Parodies topic. 

[CofCinci]

I'm just happy Jill is out of the country and won't be around to impart all her years of midwifery experience.

I wouldn't be surprised if M4 was already born. Why would phoney midwife Jill leave the country days before the baby is due?

[birkenstock]

I wouldn't be surprised if M4 was here either. I think that the Duggars are shocked that Josh's molestation scandal hasn't blown over and are trying to determine when to announce the birth. They've been pushing the forgiveness angle hard this week. They might have a People magazine birth/redemption article in the works. Or M4 is pulling an Izzy and trying to stay in as long as possible. 

 

In terms of Jill, I thought that Jill and Derick had planned their departure date weeks in advance per their Alive appearance.  Maybe they thought M4 would be early and Jill would be there for support.  Jill may not have been thinking about the Duggars when she made her plans, she also left right before James's birthday.  

[JoanArc]

 

I wouldn't be surprised if M4 was already born. Why would phoney midwife Jill leave the country days before the baby is due?

Jill delivering her molester's kid is bad, however you slice it. Even Jill's years of birthing wisdom cant save that.

[GEML]

I'd be surprised if PEOPLE touches the Duggar birth. Their readership is looking for happy stories, and no matter how you cut it, the fourth child of a man who admitted to sexually assaulting his sisters isn't happy news.

[birkenstock]

I think People is still invested in the Duggars and skew sympathetic towards them. People.com even covered Josh's instagram messages to Anna and Michael for their birthdays as well as his father's day video to Jim Bob. They did preface the articles with the fact that he sexually molested 5 girls. I would hope that they wouldn't give him the space for such an article, but I wouldn't put it past them to get the clicks/sell magazines. 

[Temperance]

I have to say it wouldn't surprise me if she hadn't given birth. I'm silly and superstitious, but everyone I know who had a baby this year went over their due date including one of my friends who's five feet tall and thought it wasn't possible for her to go over her due date with a pregnancy.(like Anna it's a fourth child in about the same time frame.) Anyway my point is it's very possible that Anna hasn't given birth, and going over your due date seems to be in the air this year. 

Edited July 11, 2015 by Temperance

[barbedwire]

Still no baby?  She is on Duggar time.

[GEML]

I'm hoping that the severance offered her insurance (that would be typical in DC) and given the short notice she went and gave birth in a hospital and took full advantage of the privacy and security offered there. Plus maybe even a little time to spend with her own little family just themselves, since I think she's used to that now, and being one of the monkeys in the circus isn't going to be as fun as it was when she first joined seven years ago.

[Skittl1321]

I'm sure they will instagram when the baby is born.  It is clear they still have fans following there, and they like the admiration.

[mimionthebeach]

Here's a question that's dumber than a box of hair... If Smuggar allegedly told his now-wife and her parents "everything" before they were married, what father in his RIGHT MIND would allow a daughter (brainwashed by a cult who worships the almighty positive pregnancy test) to marry him? If Anna's father does "prison ministry", he of ALL PEOPLE would know the recidivism rate for molesters!

What kind of woman would marry anyone she knew perpetrated this type of act? Not only marry him, but have children with him?

Seriously. I want to know.

It occurs to me that Pa Keller has a vested interest in believing that when those who sin (aka commit felony offences) find Jesus they will go forth and sin no more. Otherwise, what's the point of his life's work?

[Missy Vixen]

It occurs to me that Pa Keller has a vested interest in believing that when those who sin (aka commit felony offences) find Jesus they will go forth and sin no more. Otherwise, what's the point of his life's work?

It's really neat (special, precious) that Pa Keller has Purposed to Forgive. At the same time, he doesn't have to live with Smuggar (or have children with him, either). It all comes back to the same thing: What was Anna told -- the truth, or BS dressed up in the usual Gothard Christianese? ("Youthful indiscretion", bla bla bla.)

 

I realize forgiveness is a Thing for the Duggars and their followers, but there's a difference on the societal repugnance scale between, say, robbing a bank and molesting one's underage sisters. I'm curious about the mental gymnastics involved in the "blessing" of a relationship between one's (allegedly beloved) daughter and someone who has committed acts that have rendered his immediate family outcasts for an indefinite period of time. One has to wonder what might have been a bridge too far for Pa Keller, or if there is one.

[Flowers]

@acastillo11_ on Twitter says just met Joy, Anna, and Michael, and that Anna was still pg (as of 14 hours ago)

[Cherrio]

@acastillo11_ on Twitter says just met Joy, Anna, and Michael, and that Anna was still pg (as of 14 hours ago)

Anna has probably been ordered to have her baby at a Chik Fil  for a possible endorsement deal.      They can make her a make shift bed of waffle fries.

[GEML]

Um, not to put too fine a point on it, but I think most Christians have a vested interest in hoping that someone's life changes. Otherwise, what is the point if any of it?

[Fuzzysox]

I wouldn't be surprised if M4 was already born. Why would phoney midwife Jill leave the country days before the baby is due?

M4 could have been born already but really thinking about it, it's the Duggars everything they do has been shared with their adoring (including non-adoring, that would be US) fans so why would the birth of M4 be any different? 

[Missy Vixen]

Um, not to put too fine a point on it, but I think most Christians have a vested interest in hoping that someone's life changes. Otherwise, what is the point if any of it?

There's a difference between someone that is committed to repentance and change and the fact we've never seen Josh Duggar sorry for anything in ten years of videotaped behavior (besides the fact he was eventually found out). Considering the fact his particular issue has a very high rate of re-offense, (and considering the fact that he evidently didn't get any kind of help or counseling from anyone that was licensed by the state or qualified to do so) I am wondering how many people would have no problem with that person not only marrying into their family, but having unsupervised access to "as many children as God sends".

 

He's also allowed his entire family to take the heat while he hides. This is not a repentant person.

[dillpickles]

Anna has probably been ordered to have her baby at a Chik Fil for a possible endorsement deal. They can make her a make shift bed of waffle fries.

Or better yet, a waffle toilet. (I wouldn't wish a public bathroom birth on anyone, who knows how often Chik employees scrub those things? )

[Emme]

I don't think M4 is here yet... I'm guessing that there will be an announcement. The Duggars, I'm sure, will hope that the positive/happy news of a baby will help erase some of the sordid news of the recent past.

 

I'm going with "Madisyn" for the name.

[bluebonnet]

I hate to say this because it's about a baby, but I'm sort of dreading the publicity it will bring.  No media outlet is going to be negative in their reporting about a baby and even the negative stuff about the molestation scandal will be toned down because it's an article about a baby.  I'm almost curious if TLC was waiting for this birth to see exactly whether or not opinion on the Duggars can be turned back to something people would watch again.  

[GEML]

Given the comments on Jill's social media when she posted pictures of her baby, I'm pretty sure not even a baby saves the story. I think the comments will be pretty vicious.

[Happyfatchick]

Comments will be vicious and/or misspelled. ;)

[bluebonnet]

Comments aren't the same as a published story on a media site.  Authors of reputable media sites generally aren't going to be the hysterical sort we see going crazy because a baby has a milk rash or a man is unattractive or some battle of the ridiculous mommy wars.  The tone of these articles is going to be different because most normal people aren't going to agree with something from a journalist that disparages a baby.  

 

The hysterical commenters will continue to exist no matter what.  

Edited July 11, 2015 by bluebonnet

[Anne Elk]

I sure hope so. I'm only interested in this story because it's completely astonishing to me that covering up their son's child molestation is not enough to get either TLC or People magazine to cut ties with these bigots. How appalling is that? They make the vile, hateful Family Research Council look good in comparison.

 

It's too bad that all the Twitter ugliness will be aimed at an innocent newborn, but if Josh Duggar is going to try to hide his crimes behind his adorable kid, then that is what is going to happen and he knows it. I hope that he and Anna care enough to spare their kids that sort of thing, but I'm not optimistic. They seem to enjoy the idea that the big, evil world is persecuting them because of what awesome Christians they are.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

Many years ago, as part of health class, I took a tour of the L&D ward of a nearby hospital. They had a birthing chair there that looked very similar to a toilet, but with an open space underneath for someone to catch the baby. The doctor giving the tour said she was disappointed more women weren't willing to try it, because it was a more natural position for giving birth.

I do hope Anna is able to do whatever is most comfortable for her, now that won't be any cameras around.

Way back when, there was an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation where Counselor Troi somehow randomly gets pregnant and has the baby like, the next day. She had it in this cool looking birthing chair, and I thought wow: how come we don't do that in real life? Let gravity help get the baby out? Seems like a no-brainer...

[Micks Picks]

IIRC birthing chairs were commonly used throughout history.  Guess we've done everything but birthday chairs in the last 50-75 years.  I guess when hospital care was more available they got you into bed, the worst position IMO in which to deliver.  If I am in pain I want to walk, like try to put distance between myself and the pain.

[BetyBee]

I haven't watched 19K&C in years, but yesterday I watched a few videos of Priscilla and Anna talking, Anna & Josh on their trip to CA (and then home for the big gender reveal) and Michelle and Priscilla purposing to encourage some women who were attending some conference.  Oh, and I also watched a bit of that last pre-scandal interview in the Duggar home, where Anna cried and blamed it on hormones and where many here thought that all the adults knew that Josh's scandal was about to break.  I came away with some observations.

 

1.  Anna is really a sweet and loving person and a good mother.  I feel terrible for her.  She and Josh actually seemed in a good place there right before everything blew up.  

2.  Priscilla is a loon.  She certainly does blather on and on about nothing.  She seems like a total doormat.  She seems to ape Michelle's baby talk and take it to new levels.  She out-Michelles Michelle!

3.  Jim Bob is a dim bulb and John David seems sick of the whole fame thing.

4.  Posters here have a good handle on how wacked out all of this ATI stuff really is.  It sets the cause of women's rights back hundreds of years.  It's dangerous and frightening, especially when they go into politics and try to control others.  I was thinking this morning that I get why people look fondly back on the 50s as a more innocent time.  But in reality, societies evolve and you can't force people back in time or force them to adhere to your way of thinking.  Bottom line is that these people are free to live how they choose (minus the rape culture or other law breaking), but guess what?  They don't get to tell me or anyone else how they should live!

 

My heart breaks for Anna and those cute kids.

[Skittl1321]

 I guess when hospital care was more available they got you into bed, the worst position IMO in which to deliver.

It's easiest for the doctor though.  Let's concentrate on what matters ;)

[kaleidoscope]

The radio silence concerning M4 is driving me nuts!  (Yes, I am ashamed to admit this.)    Possibly a 12-Step program is needed:(

[dillpickles]

I wonder if she's pulling an izzy... can't say i blame her.

I hope Anna is well, this has to be so stressful.

[Cherrio]

The radio silence concerning M4 is driving me nuts!  (Yes, I am ashamed to admit this.)    Possibly a 12-Step program is needed:(

I suggest the 19 step program to cover all the bases :)

[Joe Jitsu913]

She still hasn't popped yet. I saw it on Facebook (Pickles & Hair spray).

[auntieminem]

They posted this picture on the Duggar Family Official FB page saying she is late for the first time.  

 

[anony mouse]

Poor Anna! She looks super uncomfortable.

[Happyfatchick]

You think she looks uncomfortable? I dunno... when I looked at it before I read your comment (Starving), I actually said, wow - she looks pretty all right for someone a few days over the due date in the July heat. But she's wearing the maxi, got the cankles covered. No ring, so her hands are probably swollen. I think her countenance (counter top) looks like she's keeping it sweet. (Not arguing, just saying I thought she looked pretty ok).

Jessa has BIG FEET!!!

Edited to correct the notion I EVER said "meow" in reference to Anna.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Happyfatchick

[anony mouse]

You think she looks uncomfortable? I dunno... when I looked at it before I read your comment (Starving), I actually said,meow - she looks pretty all right for someone a few days over the due date in the July heat. But she's wearing the maxi, got the cankles covered. No ring, so her hands are probably swollen. I think her countenance (counter top) looks like she's keeping it sweet. (Not arguing, just saying I thought she looked pretty ok).

Jessa has BIG FEET!!!

It's funny how we all look at pictures differently. To me, her face didn't look sweet at all - I saw a gritted teeth smile and eyes that say "I am sick of being dilated 3 cm!" To me she looks more than ready to get that baby out of there! I think a lot of times, how we interpret a picture is influenced by our own experiences, even with the photo "evidence" in front of us.

Jessa does have big feet. I'd never noticed that before.

[CofCinci]

Her smile looks so forced.

[GeeGolly]

Pregnancy agrees with Anna, see always looks fresh, clean and well rested. The Duggar girls rarely look fresh & clean.

Heehee, we all posted at the same time, yet all have varying opinions of the pic. 'Cept the feet, they do look on the larger side. ;)

[Happyfatchick]

K, looked again and I am going to concede her teeth look gritted. Her complexion looks good, and she seems to be maintaining better than I would anyway.

Big ole' feet on Blessa. Every time I go to the pic, I scroll down again to make sure they're still as big as I remembered. This time when I looked at the feet, I'm pretty sure I see marks where she just kicked off her sandals. doesn't appear swollen, just strap marks. I'm glad her feet look normal. I always swore I could forego shoes and just wear the boxes when I was pg. Hub always said I had Flintstone feet :(

Edited July 13, 2015 by Happyfatchick

[Micks Picks]

I thought Anna looked good, and clean.  Don't know why they must do the hands under the belly thing.  I hate  it.  It wasn't until well into my working career that I realized many women hated their foot length.  Mine are small, and I thought, for god's sake, of all the things to be envied for, it's my feet.

[kokapetl]

Way back when, there was an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation where Counselor Troi somehow randomly gets pregnant and has the baby like, the next day. She had it in this cool looking birthing chair, and I thought wow: how come we don't do that in real life? Let gravity help get the baby out? Seems like a no-brainer...

Counselor Troi's child grew up within a week and turned into one of those space 'entities'. Not encouraging.   

They posted this picture on the Duggar Family Official FB page saying she is late for the first time.  

 

 

I can't imagine why that baby would be holding back.  

I thought Anna looked good, and clean.  Don't know why they must do the hands under the belly thing.  I hate  it.  It wasn't until well into my working career that I realized many women hated their foot length.  Mine are small, and I thought, for god's sake, of all the things to be envied for, it's my feet.

The best way to draw attention to your pregnancy is to rest one hand on the top of your belly, as though that's it's natural resting place.

[GEML]

I think Anna looks swollen, but not dangerously so.