Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Fuzzysox]

I agree that Josh's treatment at the Lobby Hobby place was not therapeutic. At best, he was 'scared straight' by 3 months of sort of 'free labor'.

I really hope that DHS forced him to have counselling.

Fixed it for you!

[FakeJoshDuggar]

I can't figure out how to post a pic here, so here's a link to my Twitter. It's important to remember that the children who were molested didn't look like the heavily mascaraed women with the perfect barrel rolled 'do. Because TLC hasn't cancelled their show and the Duggars and their humpers still believe Josh's actions were "normal."

https://twitter.com/SweetBabbyJesus/status/619150177295802368

Edited July 9, 2015 by FakeJoshDuggar

[Happyfatchick]

Aw, FakeJosh, that is a heart wrenching photo!!! Since I looked anyway, haha on Jessa's "blingy" gold belt, and WTH is that big fat mess on Joy??? I'm breaking with my prior stance on prairie dresses. Little house look alike would have been HIGHLY preferable to that awful thing!!!

Recidivism rates are something we've all been curious about, especially those that target the molester that may not have been treated properly. No, we don't actually know whether Josh was treated other than ATI at all, so that's certainly a factor. But given that J still is in constant contact with small children, I am more curious over recurrence numbers.

I once heard a story about a man who got arrested for peeing at a golf course. He wasn't in "public", and he didn't expose himself. He had to go and was a long way from the restroom, so he did what men do (the men I know at least) and found a tree. As he zipped up, the course marshal stopped him and had him arrested. The man thought it was ridiculous and didn't fight the charges. Went to the hearing sort of "internally" snorting, sarcastically. As a result, he was fined, put on probation and required to register as a sex offender. (In our area, and I'm assuming across the U.S., sex offenders are on a map you can easily view online). He was then mortified at his lack of foresight. Last I heard, he hadn't been able to get the label removed and is still a sex offender.

I said all that because there is justifyable horror over the outcome of being busted sometimes (and when the debt to society is paid, it's paid) but other times...like with Josh... It seems to me like keeping an eye on the offender is a pretty good idea. I feel like he managed to slide under he radar because of the statute, and nobody can do anything about that. But I hope SOMEBODY comes up with a way that he has to be watched more closely than the average John Brown. Certainly more closely than the guy taking a leak at the golf course.

[amitville]

I can't figure out how to post a pic here, so here's a link to my Twitter. It's important to remember that the children who were molested didn't look like the heavily mascaraed women with the perfect barrel rolled 'do. Because TLC hasn't cancelled their show and the Duggars and their humpers still believe Josh's actions were "normal."

https://twitter.com/SweetBabbyJesus/status/619150177295802368

Talk about a scared straight moment. 

Edited July 9, 2015 by amitville

[Cherrio]

I do think there is a Gothard approved channel.    Sexinthecinemaxcamp Channel

[Defrauder]

The Anna statement about Josh being helpful at night and how she takes care of the north end while Josh takes care of the south end, especially at night, gives me the creeps.  No speculation, hope I'm wrong, but with the information everyone now has it's creepy.  Just like his incest joke back when he was courting Anna about his bro & sis 'double dating' with them was and is creepy now that we know what he did.

[ramble]

Gothard claims that one of the seven stresses, lust, can have a powerful affect on your immune system. 'The endocrine system consists of about 16 or 17 or so glands throughout our body and they are affected by our sexual drive,' he explains. Lust can have a positive or negative affect on the body depending on what it's for. God designed us to have an attraction to the opposite sex for marriage. But whoremongers will be damaged by their own system.'

I can't quit laughing at this. So let's say I admire a poster of Magic Mike XXL, or enjoy the fact that one of my best friends is built like a thing of beauty, or flirt in a raunchy way with my usually ex-boyfriend then I am killing myself?! Holy crap I'm in trouble. I think I may have shaved years off my life when I got divorced & starting dating again. Stupid glands! I bet Josh wishes the old man would shut up. His blathering is ridiculous. I'm not sure I want to even consider the other six "stresses". I may already be dead & not know it.

There were, admittedly sketchy, rumors when the scandal first broke that Josh visited strip clubs in Fayetville when he was 18-19. They could be true, or not. It's possible Josh was sly/quite enough to go without being recognized. That would've been pre-TV show. We discussed the rumors here. The consensus was....eh, maybe, with a whole shaker of salt.

The two clubs in Fayetteville are dumps. (A few side ones have popped up & closed before you can blink.) They are on a main road with no hidden parking so in theory a car could be recognized. One does share a parking lot with a busy Mexican restaurant so it wouldn't be hard to blend your car in. Anyone who goes in them has to be a bit sly or just not give a crap that they could be seen. It isn't like a they are nice, clean, upscale places filled with scads of smoking hot women. From a guy I know who went a few years back he said there were less than a handful of women & seeing one lady with a missing tooth & a poorly done Cesarean scar killed his libido for some time. Who knows if it's true about Josh or not but our local joints are nothing like you might imagine from seeing clubs on TV.

[kokapetl]

I can't quit laughing at this. So let's say I admire a poster of Magic Mike XXL, or enjoy the fact that one of my best friends is built like a thing of beauty, or flirt in a raunchy way with my usually ex-boyfriend then I am killing myself?! Holy crap I'm in trouble. I think I may have shaved years off my life when I got divorced & starting dating again. Stupid glands! I bet Josh wishes the old man would shut up. His blathering is ridiculous. I'm not sure I want to even consider the other six "stresses". I may already be dead & not know it. The two clubs in Fayetteville are dumps. (A few side ones have popped up & closed before you can blink.) They are on a main road with no hidden parking so in theory a car could be recognized. One does share a parking lot with a busy Mexican restaurant so it wouldn't be hard to blend your car in. Anyone who goes in them has to be a bit sly or just not give a crap that they could be seen. It isn't like a they are nice, clean, upscale places filled with scads of smoking hot women. From a guy I know who went a few years back he said there were less than a handful of women & seeing one lady with a missing tooth & a poorly done Cesarean scar killed his libido for some time. Who knows if it's true about Josh or not but our local joints are nothing like you might imagine from seeing clubs on TV.

It's strange, but Gothard starts out basically correct with outline of the endocrine system. There may not be 17 but there's like 10-ish major glands, he then loses the plot a bit with his statement about lust and the endocrine system, however stress does affect the body via the endocrine system. The rest of what he says is downright nutty.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Kokapetl

[JoanArc]

It's strange, but Gothard starts out basically correct with outline of the endocrine system. There may not be 17 but there's like 10-ish major glands, he then loses the plot a bit with his statement about lust and the endocrine system, however stress does affect the body via the endocrine system. The rest of what he says seems downright nutty.

There's always a kernel of truth in his teaching. The best way to lie or misdirect is to include just enough truth in what you're pushing.

[Granny58]

Ramble-  "my usually ex-boyfriend"  That's great!  Been there, done that.  LOL

[kokapetl]

There's always a kernel of truth in his teaching. The best way to lie or misdirect is to include just enough truth in what you're pushing.

I found a sample 'Wisdom Booklet'

I found most of it impenetrable (I'm not religious), but there is something wrong with the anecdotes.

The Case of the Foreigner Who Turned Out to Be a Coroner

A young attorney was defending his client in a murder case. He claimed that the death was a result of suicide and not homicide. An old German doctor had performed the autopsy and was convinced that the fatal bullet wound could not have been self- inflicted.

Cross-Examiner: “Doctor, you seem very certain about your findings in this case. You do

not give it as your opinion that the wound in this case could not have been self-inflicted, but you state it as a matter of fact—swear to it as a matter of fact. Now, I would like to ask you—by any chance is this the first autopsy you have ever made? I don’t find your name anywhere in our local medical directory.”

Doctor: “No, I can say that I have made a previous autopsy.”

Cross-Examiner: “Well, can you go as far as to say you have made five autopsies?”

Doctor: “Yes—yes, I think I can say that I have made five autopsies.”

Cross-Examiner: “Well, sir, why beat about the bush? Let’s put it this way: Can you say you have made a thousand autopsies?”

Doctor: “Well, I think I can truthfully say I probably have. You see, I was coroner for forty years for the city of Berlin before I came to this country!”

Biblical ramblings follow, but I don't see the logic of that story. Edited July 9, 2015 by Kokapetl

[TaxNerd]

I found a sample 'Wisdom Booklet'

I found most of it impenetrable (I'm not religious), but there is something wrong with the anecdotes.

Biblical ramblings follow, but I don't see the logic of that story.

Logic is covered in the next wisdom booklet.

One of the things I was hopeful for the move to DC was for Mac to possibly go to a Christian school. Now I suppose there is no way they won't homeschool.

Edited July 9, 2015 by TaxNerd

[Defrauder]

It's strange, but Gothard starts out basically correct with outline of the endocrine system. There may not be 17 but there's like 10-ish major glands, he then loses the plot a bit with his statement about lust and the endocrine system, however stress does affect the body via the endocrine system. The rest of what he says is downright nutty.

It's sad too because I think he is trying to blame people with diseases for getting diseases as if their sinning caused it, like God's punishment of them.  It's actually a pre-Christian belief when one remembers the story of someone asking Jesus why a child was sick - had his parents sinned and Jesus said no.  The event of the child being sick was to show the grace of God in healing, not God's punishment.  I only bring up the bible story because that is SUPPOSEDLY who Gothard CLAIMS to follow, as well as the Duggars, yet if they still feel that people get disease out of God's punishment for their sins they are not following Jesus.

[kokapetl]

Logic is covered in the next wisdom booklet.

One of the things I was hopeful for the move to DC was for Mac to possibly go to a Christian school. Now I suppose there is no way they won't homeschool.

Considering that Anna's production output is about 50% of what Michelle's productivity was, and that Anna prides herself on her 24/7 devotion to her kids, and not 24/7 reliance on benzos and sister moms, Anna was always going to homefool the M's.

[Sew Sumi]

It's sad too because I think he is trying to blame people with diseases for getting diseases as if their sinning caused it, like God's punishment of them.  It's actually a pre-Christian belief when one remembers the story of someone asking Jesus why a child was sick - had his parents sinned and Jesus said no.  The event of the child being sick was to show the grace of God in healing, not God's punishment.  I only bring up the bible story because that is SUPPOSEDLY who Gothard CLAIMS to follow, as well as the Duggars, yet if they still feel that people get disease out of God's punishment for their sins they are not following Jesus.

Ben posted something related to this last night. Having lost both of my devout parents to cancer, I might have blasted him for being so obtuse. My post was apparently deleted, but he did not block me. 

 

The show demonstrated Anna doing some pre-school homefoolin' with Mack while in DC. She was adamant then that she was going to homefool her spawn. Now? I just hope she is smarter than she comes off, or her M kids will be fucked trying to deal with the increasingly more educated "real world."

[anony mouse]

Credit where credit's due, Anna was using the Math U See program, which as I understand it, is secular and well-reviewed. I don't know about other subjects, but she actually might be a decent teacher.

[JennyMominFL]

I  was a secular homeschool and I'm not religious. I used Math U See. It is secular.

 

Has Anna had her baby yet?

[Sew Sumi]

Social media has been silent today. I imagine today was the day. Tomorrow is her due date, and she hasn't gone to term with one yet. 

[Marigold]

It's hard to top a toilet birth. 

However, best wishes for a safe delivery. 

[ramble]

It's strange, but Gothard starts out basically correct with outline of the endocrine system. There may not be 17 but there's like 10-ish major glands, he then loses the plot a bit with his statement about lust and the endocrine system, however stress does affect the body via the endocrine system. The rest of what he says is downright nutty.

I agree. I understand how stress can play havoc on the body and that the endocrine system is involved. I've struggled with adrenal issues. You're right about the nutty part as well. I guess lust can stress one out if there is never an outlet for the desires, but I doubt that's what Mr. Gotta-Take-Your-Shoes-Off was trying to teach the unwashed yearning masses.  

 

Ramble-  "my usually ex-boyfriend"  That's great!  Been there, done that.  LOL

Not the healthiest place to be. This probably does impact my whore-mongering stressors. As of tonight he may be the always ex-boyfriend. Idiot stupid pig man of dumb-assery. 

 

I'm uncomfortable with how curious I am if M4 has been born. It doesn't impact my life, but I want to know and know as soon as it happens. That's probably a stress too. I may be dying from all the curiosity and the lust.  All that stress. Egads! Quick, where's a picture of the Marvel Chris Club to revive me? Fully clothed of course. I'd side hug the fire out of those boys!

Edited July 10, 2015 by ramble

[HundFan]

Ben posted something related to this last night. My post was apparently deleted, but he did not block me. 

 

In which case you are obviously doing something wrong.  ;))

[Sew Sumi]

I'm getting soft in my dotage. LOL

[GEML]

Anna was using an actual recognized curriculum. And she did use online college classes (probably not accredited ones, but at least something) to study early childhood education to prepare to homeschool. You can see just in the snippets on TV that she's a good teacher for young students. I don't know how things will go once they reach upper grades, but Josh's children will likely receive better educations than their parents.

[Skittl1321]

It's hard to top a toilet birth. 

However, best wishes for a safe delivery. 

The more I read about unmedicated births, the more I've learned toilets are quite common. Apparently, even in hospitals, they will sometimes recommend a woman sit on one because it feels comfortable.  (Hospitals do usually try to get you back to the bed before the baby comes out, but they aren't always successful.)

 

And in homebirths, in addition to it being a comfortable position, apparently those last pushes really do feel like "I have to GO now!" so why not be on the toilet?  More than once I've heard the final pushes be compared to pooping out the baby when people blog about unmedicated births.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Skittl1321

[kalamac]

Many years ago, as part of health class, I took a tour of the L&D ward of a nearby hospital. They had a birthing chair there that looked very similar to a toilet, but with an open space underneath for someone to catch the baby. The doctor giving the tour said she was disappointed more women weren't willing to try it, because it was a more natural position for giving birth.

I do hope Anna is able to do whatever is most comfortable for her, now that won't be any cameras around.

[Defrauder]

The Duggars in my opinion have been led astray by wolves in sheep's clothing.  They can not even trust exposing a knee to those they associate with lest they are tempted and lose control of themselves.  They do not trust their own children alone around the people they know.  As Jessa said in the interview they know a lot of families this kind of thing happens to and worse. It isn't the outside world they should fear but their own.  Like lost sheep following wolves they listen to the wolves voices now.  If they had the communication with God that they claim to they lose all credibility with me for God didn't 'lay it on their hearts' that their son was sneaking into the girl's room at night.    They're just lost at this point forcing their children to follow them lest they be led astray.

[Shopgirl406]

On the toilet birth issue - I had to use the toilet in the mid-stages of labor with my second one.  The position felt so natural I just rested there for quite a while.  I really think this position is ok - just not maybe to deliver in a germy little cramped bathroom.  I hope Anna has an easy birth and a quiet birth without cameras, mother-in-law, sister-in-laws and others.

[frenchtoast]

I looooved the birth ball. LOOOOVED it, and that's the same position. Let gravity help for once. 

 

Still, I wouldn't want to be filmed while I was laboring. And for that I feel sorry for Anna. I'm hoping she is comfortable and delivers safely. 

[truthtalk2014]

I'm just happy Jill is out of the country and won't be around to impart all her years of midwifery experience.  

[Aja]

That sounds good! I like Jackson Browne even if he's before my time. Somebody's Baby is good too. You could do something like that. She must be somebody's broodmare?

....cause she's so modest.

[frenchtoast]

Heads up folks, I just moved talk of a band to the Parodies topic. 

[CofCinci]

I'm just happy Jill is out of the country and won't be around to impart all her years of midwifery experience.

I wouldn't be surprised if M4 was already born. Why would phoney midwife Jill leave the country days before the baby is due?

[birkenstock]

I wouldn't be surprised if M4 was here either. I think that the Duggars are shocked that Josh's molestation scandal hasn't blown over and are trying to determine when to announce the birth. They've been pushing the forgiveness angle hard this week. They might have a People magazine birth/redemption article in the works. Or M4 is pulling an Izzy and trying to stay in as long as possible. 

 

In terms of Jill, I thought that Jill and Derick had planned their departure date weeks in advance per their Alive appearance.  Maybe they thought M4 would be early and Jill would be there for support.  Jill may not have been thinking about the Duggars when she made her plans, she also left right before James's birthday.  

[JoanArc]

 

I wouldn't be surprised if M4 was already born. Why would phoney midwife Jill leave the country days before the baby is due?

Jill delivering her molester's kid is bad, however you slice it. Even Jill's years of birthing wisdom cant save that.

[GEML]

I'd be surprised if PEOPLE touches the Duggar birth. Their readership is looking for happy stories, and no matter how you cut it, the fourth child of a man who admitted to sexually assaulting his sisters isn't happy news.

[birkenstock]

I think People is still invested in the Duggars and skew sympathetic towards them. People.com even covered Josh's instagram messages to Anna and Michael for their birthdays as well as his father's day video to Jim Bob. They did preface the articles with the fact that he sexually molested 5 girls. I would hope that they wouldn't give him the space for such an article, but I wouldn't put it past them to get the clicks/sell magazines. 

[Temperance]

I have to say it wouldn't surprise me if she hadn't given birth. I'm silly and superstitious, but everyone I know who had a baby this year went over their due date including one of my friends who's five feet tall and thought it wasn't possible for her to go over her due date with a pregnancy.(like Anna it's a fourth child in about the same time frame.) Anyway my point is it's very possible that Anna hasn't given birth, and going over your due date seems to be in the air this year. 

Edited July 11, 2015 by Temperance

[barbedwire]

Still no baby?  She is on Duggar time.

[GEML]

I'm hoping that the severance offered her insurance (that would be typical in DC) and given the short notice she went and gave birth in a hospital and took full advantage of the privacy and security offered there. Plus maybe even a little time to spend with her own little family just themselves, since I think she's used to that now, and being one of the monkeys in the circus isn't going to be as fun as it was when she first joined seven years ago.

[Skittl1321]

I'm sure they will instagram when the baby is born.  It is clear they still have fans following there, and they like the admiration.

[mimionthebeach]

Here's a question that's dumber than a box of hair... If Smuggar allegedly told his now-wife and her parents "everything" before they were married, what father in his RIGHT MIND would allow a daughter (brainwashed by a cult who worships the almighty positive pregnancy test) to marry him? If Anna's father does "prison ministry", he of ALL PEOPLE would know the recidivism rate for molesters!

What kind of woman would marry anyone she knew perpetrated this type of act? Not only marry him, but have children with him?

Seriously. I want to know.

It occurs to me that Pa Keller has a vested interest in believing that when those who sin (aka commit felony offences) find Jesus they will go forth and sin no more. Otherwise, what's the point of his life's work?

[Missy Vixen]

It occurs to me that Pa Keller has a vested interest in believing that when those who sin (aka commit felony offences) find Jesus they will go forth and sin no more. Otherwise, what's the point of his life's work?

It's really neat (special, precious) that Pa Keller has Purposed to Forgive. At the same time, he doesn't have to live with Smuggar (or have children with him, either). It all comes back to the same thing: What was Anna told -- the truth, or BS dressed up in the usual Gothard Christianese? ("Youthful indiscretion", bla bla bla.)

 

I realize forgiveness is a Thing for the Duggars and their followers, but there's a difference on the societal repugnance scale between, say, robbing a bank and molesting one's underage sisters. I'm curious about the mental gymnastics involved in the "blessing" of a relationship between one's (allegedly beloved) daughter and someone who has committed acts that have rendered his immediate family outcasts for an indefinite period of time. One has to wonder what might have been a bridge too far for Pa Keller, or if there is one.

[Flowers]

@acastillo11_ on Twitter says just met Joy, Anna, and Michael, and that Anna was still pg (as of 14 hours ago)

[Cherrio]

@acastillo11_ on Twitter says just met Joy, Anna, and Michael, and that Anna was still pg (as of 14 hours ago)

Anna has probably been ordered to have her baby at a Chik Fil  for a possible endorsement deal.      They can make her a make shift bed of waffle fries.

[GEML]

Um, not to put too fine a point on it, but I think most Christians have a vested interest in hoping that someone's life changes. Otherwise, what is the point if any of it?

[Fuzzysox]

I wouldn't be surprised if M4 was already born. Why would phoney midwife Jill leave the country days before the baby is due?

M4 could have been born already but really thinking about it, it's the Duggars everything they do has been shared with their adoring (including non-adoring, that would be US) fans so why would the birth of M4 be any different? 

[Missy Vixen]

Um, not to put too fine a point on it, but I think most Christians have a vested interest in hoping that someone's life changes. Otherwise, what is the point if any of it?

There's a difference between someone that is committed to repentance and change and the fact we've never seen Josh Duggar sorry for anything in ten years of videotaped behavior (besides the fact he was eventually found out). Considering the fact his particular issue has a very high rate of re-offense, (and considering the fact that he evidently didn't get any kind of help or counseling from anyone that was licensed by the state or qualified to do so) I am wondering how many people would have no problem with that person not only marrying into their family, but having unsupervised access to "as many children as God sends".

 

He's also allowed his entire family to take the heat while he hides. This is not a repentant person.

[dillpickles]

Anna has probably been ordered to have her baby at a Chik Fil for a possible endorsement deal. They can make her a make shift bed of waffle fries.

Or better yet, a waffle toilet. (I wouldn't wish a public bathroom birth on anyone, who knows how often Chik employees scrub those things? )

[Emme]

I don't think M4 is here yet... I'm guessing that there will be an announcement. The Duggars, I'm sure, will hope that the positive/happy news of a baby will help erase some of the sordid news of the recent past.

 

I'm going with "Madisyn" for the name.

[bluebonnet]

I hate to say this because it's about a baby, but I'm sort of dreading the publicity it will bring.  No media outlet is going to be negative in their reporting about a baby and even the negative stuff about the molestation scandal will be toned down because it's an article about a baby.  I'm almost curious if TLC was waiting for this birth to see exactly whether or not opinion on the Duggars can be turned back to something people would watch again.