Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[zenme]

I could totally see Josh working at a big box store walking around like he was a manager and trying to tell his co-workers what to do.  I could also see a customer asking where they could find a certain product and then tasking another co-worker to do the work.

[Muffyn]

Perish the thought! As a grocery bagger myself I daresay Joshie would not do well. Along with bagging (at least at my store) we must also carry groceries to the care at times, lift things, and fetch carts from the parking lot and push them back into the store. What will Joshie do on days in the South when it is a hundred degrees and all of them there carts must go inside? Us womenfolk are only required to push six max but since Josh has a penis, he'd be expected to do eight or more. I myself can do eight but then again I ain't golden boy Boob's son. I don't think he has the stamina.

Oh, by the way, that's eight carts at once then going out for more Joshie. I'm a measly woman but I can do it so can you! PUSH JOSH PUSH like your wife does when the kid comes out.

Now I'm having visions of Josh creating his own personal slip and slide in the parking lot from the rivers of sweat pouring down his body.  I can just see people asking to replace all of their groceries because they are covered in Josh juice.  

Edited June 13, 2015 by Muffyn

[What In The]

Oh, it would be fun! One thing us baggers love to do when pissed at another for trying to skimp out on cart duty is push all of then there carts to the edges of the lot then lock the wheels on their turn. I'd love to see Josh handle that!

 

Oh, and it's a great calorie burner. One, the movement and two, after doing it four times in the heat you are too pooped too eat.

[fliptopbox]

The Village Church (and their buddies, Seattle's Mars Hill Church) are even scarier than the Duggars and their cult, in my opinion. They are hyper-masculine patriarchies that demand one signs a contract to belong to the church and "church discipline" is random and draconian, for starters. They teach something called "compartmentalism", which is a fancy term for "women are second class citizens and will do what men want at all times".  VC and MH dress their Calvinism on steroids up in "We play rock music during our services, the pastor wears jeans in the pulpit, and we let people smoke cigarettes outside of the sanctuary. We are really hip". Seriously, they make Ben Seewald look somewhat reasonable and sane. If you'd like to know more about them and their beliefs, please do a Google search on "Acts 29" for starters. The ONLY REASON they cut Mark Driscoll loose (my opinion, of course) is because he was about to bring down the entire moneymaking machine. One of the clauses in the member contract is that you must share proof of your yearly income with church leadership so they can calculate your tithe.

 

The ONLY REASON Village Church relented on the woman in question is because she was smart enough to tell her story to the media. The abuses of the Acts 29 group to their membership are all over the Web and make some pretty nightmarish reading.

 

And I think Josh may already be working behind the scenes with the org that just allegedly fired him. They want that entree into the Gothardite voting bloc. Badly. IMHO, of course.

I read a bit about VC and this woman's marriage annulment and I saw the words "church discipline" mentioned many times....but I couldn't find anything stating what that actually meant. Also, how can a church group not let a person leave? Parishoners don't live in the church, and if they just don't come back and stop associating with other members there really isn't anything the pastors/elders/whoever can do to stop them. Even if she signed some sort of agreement, unless it was a bona fide legal contract of sorts and not just a church document there isn't a thing the church can do to keep someone as a member. Unless I am really missing something here.. Once a marriage is annuled that's it, right?

[Barbie]

Perish the thought! As a grocery bagger myself I daresay Joshie would not do well. Along with bagging (at least at my store) we must also carry groceries to the care at times, lift things, and fetch carts from the parking lot and push them back into the store. What will Joshie do on days in the South when it is a hundred degrees and all of them there carts must go inside? Us womenfolk are only required to push six max but since Josh has a penis, he'd be expected to do eight or more. I myself can do eight but then again I ain't golden boy Boob's son. I don't think he has the stamina.

Oh, by the way, that's eight carts at once then going out for more Joshie. I'm a measly woman but I can do it so can you! PUSH JOSH PUSH like your wife does when the kid comes out.

I read this at first as Josie bagging groceries and thought yeah she'd be licking everything before she put it in the bag... 

[galax-arena]

I saw the words "church discipline" mentioned many times....but I couldn't find anything stating what that actually meant. 

I'm not sure about the Village Church's discipline, but here's a link outlining another church's process step by step. Essentially, it means being rebuked/chastised by the church until you repent. 

 

And no, a church can't stop someone from leaving. But they'll just keep harassing you and refuse to take you off their membership rolls. The latter could theoretically give you problems joining a new church down the line, I believe; it depends on the new church's policy re: holding dual membership. 

[Missy Vixen]

I read a bit about VC and this woman's marriage annulment and I saw the words "church discipline" mentioned many times....but I couldn't find anything stating what that actually meant. Also, how can a church group not let a person leave? Parishoners don't live in the church, and if they just don't come back and stop associating with other members there really isn't anything the pastors/elders/whoever can do to stop them. Even if she signed some sort of agreement, unless it was a bona fide legal contract of sorts and not just a church document there isn't a thing the church can do to keep someone as a member. Unless I am really missing something here.. Once a marriage is annuled that's it, right?

"Church discipline" is a fancy term for "do it our way, or else". It's typically invoked against those who choose to follow their own common sense instead of draconian and unforgiving "church rules" allegedly based on Biblical truth, but can be shaped and twisted by those in charge of the church to mean almost anything. You are right: The woman from Village Church is an adult. She has the right to annul a marriage to a guy who lied to her (and concealed) his addiction to child pornography. It really isn't the church's business what she does as an adult, but their covenants decree that there will be No Divorce. For any reason. Well, I'm sure there's some type of "out" in case one's wife gains a lot of weight and isn't sexually attractive anymore -- oops, did I say that? My bad. Back to the "church discipline". There's plenty to go around, but as those who've been subject to church discipline have discovered, you'll be treated to things like shunning, the contacting of your employer/uninvolved family members/neighbors/pastors of other local churches you might want to attend, an "action plan" of sorts to bring you back into the fold, etcetera. They don't just let you leave. You can't leave until you've fulfilled your "discipline". In other words, any adult signing one of these contracts has surrendered their autonomy and/or decision making in favor of allowing a group of men to dictate how you should and should not live your life. If you'd like to read more, The Stranger (independent newspaper in Seattle) did a series on Mars Hill and church discipline. http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/church-or-cult/Content?oid=12172001

 

I know someone who has been dealing with "church discipline" at a certain church in the Seattle area for a while now. It's not a joke. And it is astounding to hear another adult's experiences being harassed in the name of "Jesus" by people that really, really need to find another hobby.

 

One also has to wonder what "church discipline" is like at a home church. One can only imagine the fun, especially when there is no accountability or control over those handing out the punishments.

 

Edited because hello, I do speak English...

Edited June 14, 2015 by Missy Vixen

[Julia]

I'm not sure about the Village Church's discipline, but here's a link outlining another church's process step by step. Essentially, it means being rebuked/chastised by the church until you repent. 

 

And no, a church can't stop someone from leaving. But they'll just keep harassing you and refuse to take you off their membership rolls. The latter could theoretically give you problems joining a new church down the line, I believe; it depends on the new church's policy re: holding dual membership. 

 

Mars Hill, the church those articles are about, has since imploded (a few people mentioned their pastor, Mark Driscoll, above). There were accusations of financial misconduct, but the biggest problems had to do with the church leadership, who got a little intoxicated on the methane rising from their manly headship and started treating male parishioners and clergy the same authoritarian way they were treating women and children. Along with a little scientology-style demanding blackmail material from parishioners. It didn't end well.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Julia

[galax-arena]

Mars Hill, the church those articles are about, has since imploded (a few people mentioned their pastor, Mark Driscoll, above).

Damn, they were connected to Mars Hill too?? I knew that Mars Hill had gone under, but wasn't familiar with all of the offshoot names. Hmph. Why couldn't they do like Hillsong and just keep the same name? Hillsong LA... Hillsong NYC... Hillsong Sydney. Cuts down on the confusion. 

[Julia]

Damn, they were connected to Mars Hill too?? I knew that Mars Hill had gone under, but wasn't familiar with all of the offshoot names. Hmph. Why couldn't they do like Hillsong and just keep the same name? Hillsong LA... Hillsong NYC... Hillsong Sydney. Cuts down on the confusion. 

 

I don't know if the Duggars have any connection to him. A few people posted links to church discipline articles which turned out to be about Mars Hill (background here and here, if anyone's interested).

 

ETA: This guy appears to think there's a doctrinal connection through Gothard, fwiw.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Julia

[galax-arena]

I don't know if the Duggars have any connection to him.

To clarify, by "they" I was referring to the church link I posted in the part you quoted (Grace Community Church), not the Duggars. Except when I hover over the URL in the part you quoted, it goes to a Daily Beast article. But the original URL in my comment was http://www.gty.org/resources/distinctives/dd02/church-discipline. Now I'm confused lol. I guess Grace isn't part of the Mars Hill/Acts 29 network after all. 

 

I don't believe the Duggars are linked to Mars Hill at all. 

[GEML]

There is no connection between Gothard, Jim Bob Duggar and Mark Driscoll at all. You put two alpha religious males and one alpha wannabe in the room and you get a fight - not a coordinated effort to change America. (I'm calling JB as the wannabe.)

[galax-arena]

But I'm betting Mark Driscoll isn't manly enough to hump his wife on a golf course... 

[GEML]

And that type of stuff is what distinguishes a true Alpha religious fanatic from JB's wannabe! ;)

[Missy Vixen]

I knew that Mars Hill had gone under, but wasn't familiar with all of the offshoot names. Hmph. Why couldn't they do like Hillsong and just keep the same name? Hillsong LA... Hillsong NYC... Hillsong Sydney. Cuts down on the confusion. 

Nasty little local secret: Mars Hill has allegedly closed, but offshoot churches (with the same rules and personnel) are still operating. VC and Hillsong are both apologists for one Mark Driscoll as well, who is evidently planning on making a comeback.

 

What does this have to do with the Duggars? Calvinism (extreme legalism). Patriarchy. The Duggars come right at you with their "theology". The complementarians dress it up in hipsters and rock music to make it more palatable.

But I'm betting Mark Driscoll isn't manly enough to hump his wife on a golf course... 

He is manly enough to brag about his wife's "frigidity" (the aftermath of a sexual assault) from the pulpit of his church and in the pages of the book Real Marriage, however... He also went into great detail about how his wife wasn't a virgin when they wed, which "hurt him deeply". Of course he said nothing about the fact he was not quite so chaste himself.

 

Sound like someone else we know? Hey, Jim Boob, I'm looking at you! And I'm wondering if ol' JB's offering some type of grad-level SOTDRT course on "how to treat the little woman".

There is no connection between Gothard, Jim Bob Duggar and Mark Driscoll at all. You put two alpha religious males and one alpha wannabe in the room and you get a fight - not a coordinated effort to change America. (I'm calling JB as the wannabe.)

Driscoll is of an age that he most likely would have attended Gothard's yearly Basic Youth Conflicts seminars in Seattle. In any case, they're all singing the same song. I don't think this is coincidental.

[Aethera]

We're drifting off topic a bit. Let's move any further discussion of these other churches to the religion thread, please!  We're in the Josh & Anna thread here :)

[Missy Vixen]

We're drifting off topic a bit. Let's move any further discussion of these other churches to the religion thread, please!  We're in the Josh & Anna thread here :)

Aethera, thank you. I'm off to the religion thread.

[flyingdi]

You know what? I think Anna is a major part of the reason Josh is keeping a low profile. As I have said before, out of all these women, Anna is not an actress. She tries to keep sweet and I truly believe she and Josh have genuine feelings for each other, but if I was advising them I would not put Anna on camera in this situation. I do not believe, no matter what she says, that she knew the full extent of what happened before she got married and in an interview it would show. The problem with Anna is that every emotion she has clearly shows on her face. She is, out of all of them, not even remotely good at hiding her feelings.

[becca3891]

You know what? I think Anna is a major part of the reason Josh is keeping a low profile. As I have said before, out of all these women, Anna is not an actress. She tries to keep sweet and I truly believe she and Josh have genuine feelings for each other, but if I was advising them I would not put Anna on camera in this situation. I do not believe, no matter what she says, that she knew the full extent of what happened before she got married and in an interview it would show. The problem with Anna is that every emotion she has clearly shows on her face. She is, out of all of them, not even remotely good at hiding her feelings.

Good points. I would love to know the truth regarding how much Anna knew. It would be a pretty big gamble for Josh to only tell her the vague "I had moral failings as a teenager" nonsense. Unless she was lying in her public statement, she said that she was shocked when Josh told her the truth before they ever started courting. No reason to be shocked if all he said was that he had wrong thoughts. Having been steeped in Gothardism, she knew that was probably to be expected. So maybe she really did know. I hope so, for her sake, because otherwise, she must be shocked, hurting, angry, etc. [snip]

Edited June 15, 2015 by bigskygirl
Speculating Josh may molest again (his own daughter)

[TaxNerd]

You know what? I think Anna is a major part of the reason Josh is keeping a low profile. As I have said before, out of all these women, Anna is not an actress. She tries to keep sweet and I truly believe she and Josh have genuine feelings for each other, but if I was advising them I would not put Anna on camera in this situation. I do not believe, no matter what she says, that she knew the full extent of what happened before she got married and in an interview it would show. The problem with Anna is that every emotion she has clearly shows on her face. She is, out of all of them, not even remotely good at hiding her feelings.

I really don't think Anna has to act supportive of Josh, she is all in to this lifestyle. Josh said it's taken care of, he repented and was forgiven, so Anna has nothing to worry about, and I don't think she is. She is probably upset thet had to move back to AR, but no need to hide that emotion from the press. In our world it would be normal to be angry at Josh, but not in her world.

I agree I don't think she knew the full story back two years before they were married, although she may have heard a watered down version. I still don't think she knows the full story (neither do we). I honestly think her isolation is for her protection as much as to sheild her from the public. Can you imagine her going to the grocery store with Mackenzie and people yelling at her to watch her daughter around her husband? Now she is only getting information filtered through the Duggars.

An interesting quote from one of the Mars Hill articles from earlier is that questioning can lead to sinning though questioning. I think that viewpoint really holds true in the fundie world and Anna isn't actually questioning Josh at all.

Edited June 15, 2015 by TaxNerd

[GEML]

oh yes, I remember the crack downs against questioning. That's rebellion against authority. That's never good.

[Ljohnson1987]

Happy fourth birthday Michael!

[Happyfatchick]

Ugh, poor michael! Are you sure this is his birthday? Poor baby! All this sudden upheaval and hunkering down, hiding... gaw, that kid has to feel lost!

It reminds me (sadly) of when my eldest turned 4 and we were ALL IN fundie-lite. His birthday fell on a Sunday. I had gotten him a wagon and some books and toys and piled them all in the wagon with a big bow. However we dove out of bed on Sunday morning, racing around the house to find shoes, hair clips, Bibles, etc. just as we were walking (running) out the door, he says, "is anybody going to say Happy Birthday to me?" We were late for church and I had to re-do my makeup. I'm pretty sure he's still seeing a therapist about that.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Happyfatchick

[graefin]

As I have said before, out of all these women, Anna is not an actress. The problem with Anna is that every emotion she has clearly shows on her face. She is, out of all of them, not even remotely good at hiding her feelings.

Is this the same Anna who claimed, with a straight face, that she and Josh were wrangling the kids all by themselves on that trip that Jana was pictured tagging along on? Or the same one who described her childhood camping experience in an episode as "horrifying" with a pleasant cadence in her voice and a smile on her face?

[flyingdi]

no I really believe that is the extent in the Duggar family that anyone notices Jana is there. You know even if she is doing all the work. It's been that way for so long Jana is just invisible even to those who love her.

[bluebonnet]

Who's Jana?

[GEML]

I don't know what Josh or Anna would have to gain by being in the public eye or doing any kind of interview. They aren't fighting to keep a show, or promote a book or any reason like that. I honestly wouldn't be saying anything either - I can't imagine what they would say that would really "help" matters. And saying that we somehow deserve this, or it would give them a chance to tell their side, or a chance at self respect (insert cliche here) well, that doesn't sound all that different from Jim Bob making him tell his sins and grovel in front of the whole church.

[dillpickles]

Who's Jana?

Maybe you'll recognize her by the serial number.

001JSLAV34J1MB00B

[cmr2014]

Good points. I would love to know the truth regarding how much Anna knew. It would be a pretty big gamble for Josh to only tell her the vague "I had moral failings as a teenager" nonsense. Unless she was lying in her public statement, she said that she was shocked when Josh told her the truth before they ever started courting. No reason to be shocked if all he said was that he had wrong thoughts. Having been steeped in Gothardism, she knew that was probably to be expected. So maybe she really did know. I hope so, for her sake, because otherwise, she must be shocked, hurting, angry, etc. [snip]

 

I think that Anna knew this story. Josh publicly confessed, and it was apparently common knowledge in that area.

 

I honestly think that Anna has forgiven Michelle and the girls for not properly practicing modesty and causing Josh to sin.

 

It sounds like a bad, joke, but I believe it's true. Anna was probably given the Wisdom booklet that we've seen excerpted on-line and was counseled to understand that the girls were too young to be aware of the problems they created by not being appropriately modest.

[Marigny]

I don't know what Josh or Anna would have to gain by being in the public eye or doing any kind of interview. They aren't fighting to keep a show, or promote a book or any reason like that. I honestly wouldn't be saying anything either - I can't imagine what they would say that would really "help" matters. And saying that we somehow deserve this, or it would give them a chance to tell their side, or a chance at self respect (insert cliche here) well, that doesn't sound all that different from Jim Bob making him tell his sins and grovel in front of the whole church.

 

If that's the case, what did they think would be gained by the survivors doing an interview and outing themselves? To some (IMO), it may not have come across as desperate had Josh manned up and done the interview instead of having his parents and victims fight his battles while he hid in the prayer closet. 

[GEML]

I think the Duggars Senior are control freaks, which was why they couldn't keep from doing an interview. Plus, they were just SO SURE they could persuade people because they had been given so many passes in life before.

I think the daughters agreed because their livelihood, and to whatever extent we can call them "free" was on the line.

But I imagine after Josh and Anna realized that DC was over and there was nothing they could say or do that was going to change that, they realized an interview wasn't the way to go. They may also have agreed not to do an interview as part of a severance package from the FRC.

[galax-arena]

If that's the case, what did they think would be gained by the survivors doing an interview and outing themselves?

I think they thought they could use Jill and Jessa's status as two of Josh's victims to shut their critics up. "See, we forgive Josh, and since we were the ones who were directly hurt by him, who the hell are you to say anything different?" IMO they hoped to play it as a trump card (as evidenced by their willingness to refer to themselves as victims and yet refuse to acknowledge what Josh did as molestation) because it's considered bad form to question a victim narrative. They wanted to have the final word. 

[kokapetl]

Is it possible the daughters just wanted it to be known that the release of the information harmed the victims as well as the perpetrator, that InTouch magazine releasing the information really only benefitted InTouch magazine?

[bluebonnet]

I think the only reason I wanted to hear from Josh is because his parents did such a god awful job with their own interview.  They made it impossible for me to take Jessa and Jill at their word coming on the heels of Jim Bob and Michelle describing how it was no big deal because it was over the clothes mostly and the victims were asleep and being asleep makes it ok because if no one feels a molestor's hands then no crime happened amirite and then tears, lots and lots of crying tears.  I mean, it was just awful.  It's a bit horrifying to see that these parents have absolutely no clue, not a single one.  These are the people who were supposed to have helped their children through this awful thing.  And this interview came after years of being in the public eye, years of practice and training in how to give a good interview, years of reflection after the terrible events occurred, and certainly advice from PR and crisis teams.  FFS, if this is what we get after all this, how much worse could it have been twelve years ago?  

 

This is why I would have wanted Josh to speak.  If the family is just going to defend and justify Josh's behavior and what he did, I think he should have had his moment to explain himself.  I think it could have aided the girls in a way their parents never could.  With the girls' interview coming after Jim Bob and Michelle, all I could really think about is that these are victims with parents who just went on national tv claiming none of it was a big deal, and the big deal is actually bribery and such by the mayor who had an agenda.  

 

However, if Michelle and Jim Bob had been even halfway decent, then I never would have cared to hear Josh's side.  Halfway decent for JB & M would be something like, "Look, this terrible thing happened in our family.  We reacted the best way we knew, though we know we made mistakes.  Over the last 12 years, we have continued to do our best to make sure that all of our children have recovered from this event.  Our daughters would like to share their story and we hope you can respect what they have to say.  We appreciate the continued prayers for our family."  Some version of this likely would have endeared the Duggars forever in the hearts and minds of America.  There would still be all of the issues associated with their vile hatred against the LGBT community but this sort of statement at least reveals they are self-aware and humble, which people tend to like.  It also gives Jill and Jessa some power when they share their story.  If it went like this, Josh could just go away quietly and live out his life. 

 

The way it went, though, makes me want Josh to speak up for himself.  

[NikSac]

These are the people who were supposed to have helped their children through this awful thing.  And this interview came after years of being in the public eye, years of practice and training in how to give a good interview, years of reflection after the terrible events occurred, and certainly advice from PR and crisis teams.  FFS, if this is what we get after all this, how much worse could it have been twelve years ago?  

 

This is why I would have wanted Josh to speak. 

 

I honestly got the feeling their parents really didn't care about the girls then, and don't now, as long as they can spin it that they "handled" it. I think that's why I don't want to hear from Josh - I'm afraid it'd be even worse than what his parents already said.

 

ETA: to clarify care about the girls.

Edited June 16, 2015 by NikSac

[cmr2014]

They live a very isolated life and have little contact with people who are not either in their circle, or devoted fans. JB hasn't doesn't have a job and doesn't work for anyone; he is the leader of his church; his wife won't contradict him; and he is basically the king of his tiny world. I'm sure that the Christian crisis management team that refused to work with him bailed because he showed no interest in listening to their advice. Based on the feedback that he got from his church community and his sycophantic wife, I'm sure he thought he had created the perfect plan to mitigate the damage and keep the show on the air. I'm sure that the fact that it really hasn't worked is a genuine surprise to him.

 

The only person who has had any contact with the outside world is Josh. I think he was probably the only person who had any idea how damaging the revelation was, and how difficult it would be to recover. While JB might have thought that talking about Jesus and forgiveness and trotting out the two victims would smooth everything over, I think that Josh may have had enough sophistication to realize that it wouldn't. In my opinion, the only smart decision that anyone has made in all of this was for Josh to keep his head down and his mouth shut.

[JenCarroll]

I think what we needed to get from Jim Bob and Michelle, and didn't, is some trace of humility, an admission that they might not have done everything right. They got close when they said, "We felt, as parents, we're failures," then immediately blew it by continuing, "We failed Josh!" Nothing about failing the girls. That was my "I'm done with these people" moment.

The heartfelt insincerity of the whole thing was just icing.

[Churchhoney]

If that's the case, what did they think would be gained by the survivors doing an interview and outing themselves? To some (IMO), it may not have come across as desperate had Josh manned up and done the interview instead of having his parents and victims fight his battles while he hid in the prayer closet. 

 

I wonder whether they thought beyond a panicked, "Oh no! We have to save our show(s)! We need to get on tv and show everybody that what happened in teh past was no big deal and they should be sorry for us in the present! They love us! It'll be fine!"

 

When I try to imagine how it went down, panicked stupidity is pretty much all I see.

[cheatincheetos]

Do you want fries with that?

A fried reality TV career?

[NikSac]

I think what we needed to get from Jim Bob and Michelle, and didn't, is some trace of humility, an admission that they might not have done everything right. They got close when they said, "We felt, as parents, we're failures," then immediately blew it by continuing, "We failed Josh!" Nothing about failing the girls. That was my "I'm done with these people" moment.

The heartfelt insincerity of the whole thing was just icing.

 

That was the exact moment too where I just knew they were completely horrible people. To me it seemed like they ONLY cared about Josh. Well, and I guess themselves a little bit.  The girls?  I didn't see any concern for them at all, and that really bothered me.

[Wellfleet]

I think the Duggars Senior are control freaks, which was why they couldn't keep from doing an interview. Plus, they were just SO SURE they could persuade people because they had been given so many passes in life before.

I think the daughters agreed because their livelihood, and to whatever extent we can call them "free" was on the line.

But I imagine after Josh and Anna realized that DC was over and there was nothing they could say or do that was going to change that, they realized an interview wasn't the way to go. They may also have agreed not to do an interview as part of a severance package from the FRC.

 

Definitely "Yes" to the control freak issue - and an even stronger "Yes" to thinking they could put one over on people this time. Why wouldn't they think it? They HAD been given so many passes previously. They don't even get it that they would never even be on TV if they were a Hispanic family, or an African-American family, or just about any demographic other than exactly what they are.

[cmr2014]

I mean, it was just awful.  It's a bit horrifying to see that these parents have absolutely no clue, not a single one.  These are the people who were supposed to have helped their children through this awful thing.  And this interview came after years of being in the public eye, years of practice and training in how to give a good interview, years of reflection after the terrible events occurred, and certainly advice from PR and crisis teams.  FFS, if this is what we get after all this, how much worse could it have been twelve years ago?   

 

I would like to LIKE this 1000x.

 

I think what we needed to get from Jim Bob and Michelle, and didn't, is some trace of humility, an admission that they might not have done everything right. They got close when they said, "We felt, as parents, we're failures," then immediately blew it by continuing, "We failed Josh!" Nothing about failing the girls. That was my "I'm done with these people" moment.

The heartfelt insincerity of the whole thing was just icing.

 

And this, too.

 

Their daughters were molested. How would any normal parent have felt. How much grief and guilt would a normal parent have felt about not protecting their children? Their son was the molester. How many sleepless nights would normal parents have spent worrying about him -- what's wrong with him? what did we do wrong? what are we going to do?

 

Instead, they just barreled ahead and had another 6-7 children. Oh, but no one was allowed to play hide and seek, and side-hugs only! See, they're great parents!

 

Then when this comes out and they choose to tell their story, they can't come up with one genuine ounce of emotion -- except for anger at the magazine and the police chief. They are just not capable of self-reflection or humility. It's funny that they have been on television so long, and can see themselves and the impression that they make at any time, but apparently think that they are doing just fine -- great, really.

 

Given what we have seen of Josh -- the incest jokes, and the teasing of his sisters about their love lives -- I can't help but wonder if he was kept off camera because the handlers thought he would come across as lacking in remorse or humility. Maybe, as bad as they were, JB and J'chelle were the better choice?

[DangerousMinds]

I think that Anna knew this story. Josh publicly confessed, and it was apparently common knowledge in that area.

I honestly think that Anna has forgiven Michelle and the girls for not properly practicing modesty and causing Josh to sin.

It sounds like a bad, joke, but I believe it's true. Anna was probably given the Wisdom booklet that we've seen excerpted on-line and was counseled to understand that the girls were too young to be aware of the problems they created by not being appropriately modest.

This is exactly how I see it, given the research I've done lately into this belief system. Edited June 16, 2015 by DangerousMinds

[Sew Sumi]

FWIW, Josh and Anna rejoined social media tonight, feting Mike, who turned 4 today. Party with cupcakes at the TTH. No Sierra cake to be found, just some cupcakes and Josie (probably licking them).

[Albanyguy]

I think the daughters agreed because their livelihood, and to whatever extent we can call them "free" was on the line.

 

 

While that's certainly true, I don't think it even occurred to the girls that they COULD say "no" to the interview. From birth, they've been trained to unquestioning obedience to their parents and I don't think marriage or legal adulthood has changed that in the slightest. Daddy's word is law.

 

Josh and Anna rejoined social media tonight, feting Mike, who turned 4 today. Party with cupcakes at the TTH.

 

 

First he hides behind his sisters and now he hides behind his kids.

[GEML]

To me, Josh is just acting like a standard politician. Other than the lawyer vetted resignation, yes, you DO hide behind your surrogates for a time when you've done something. That's part of the strategy. If Jim Bob and Michelle had done that, or the daughters had done that (and I'm not sure if they were required to do the interview or not, given how much money for them personally was at stake) I think a good bit of this would have blown over. At some point, interviews could be arranged (in the depths of summer - John Edwards did his in the middle of August) where they could have practiced a more remorseful tone, but by then, likely a lot of weird stuff like the mental patient ravings, that would have put the family in a less harsh light. By jumping into it, the completely justified everything the police report said, and more.

[Satchels of gold]

I think what we needed to get from Jim Bob and Michelle, and didn't, is some trace of humility, an admission that they might not have done everything right. They got close when they said, "We felt, as parents, we're failures," then immediately blew it by continuing, "We failed Josh!" Nothing about failing the girls. That was my "I'm done with these people" moment.

The heartfelt insincerity of the whole thing was just icing.

So much this! During the interview JB was describing what happened after the first incident was revealed and says "looking back....(since 3 more girls were molested after this was revealed, I was fully expecting him to say " we didn't handle it properly or we should have done more but no, he goes on to say ) we did the best we could" what?! I guess he can never admit he is wrong...EVER.

I think this country loves a come back but I don't think they can ever, ever come back from child molestation.

[Cherrio]

So much this! During the interview JB was describing what happened after the first incident was revealed and says "looking back....(since 3 more girls were molested after this was revealed, I was fully expecting him to say " we didn't handle it properly or we should have done more but no, he goes on to say ) we did the best we could" what?! I guess he can never admit he is wrong...EVER.

I think this country loves a come back but I don't think they can ever, ever come back from child molestation.

I agree with you.    I would like to add that even before the molestation came out, nobody cared about Josh Duggar. He isn't a politician, he never was and he never would of been.  The organization he worked for is a hate group.   

 The Duggars played right into TLC'S hands.    They willingly displayed how weird they are, JB lucked into a way so he would not have to work a real job and made some money.   Meanwhile TLC made around 25 million a year off them.    

[Aja]

I watched about a minute and a half of that interview on Youtube. The bit where Jim Bob was "um err um err"-ing about "what actually happened." "See the girls...they dint even know because they were sleepin'...SECONDS it lasted, I mean WELL UNDER A MINUTE, AND OVER THE CLOTHES (andonetimeundertheclothes) and nobody even RELL-IIIZED...." While Michelle painstakingly maintained her "concerned" forehead crinkle and nodded like a bobblehead. I was so disgusted I had to turn it off. I have no words. None. I agree, if that was Jim Bob and Michelle at their PR, damage-control best, it's no wonder they've locked Josh in the basement (a girl can dream.)

[Darknight]

I think JB thought he had all the answers and normal people would buy it. We all know he's stupid arrogant obnoxious and has the mind if a 15 yo boy. His wife and children treat him like a king without question. He never had to answer to anyone but Jim Bob. The duggars only being around each other made them look bad. They have no idea how the real world works or critical thinking skills