Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Absolom]

I think right now with COVID protocols, he gets two a month.  

[Salacious Kitty]

That's it? Anna won't be pleased if JB/Meech want to visit. 

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, Absolom said:

What if JB and Michelle want to visit?  Will Anna be willing to forego a visit for them or for any of his siblings?

I don't know how that'll work seeing as they will have to be searched. Also I'm not sure anyone needs to see Michelle wearing a wireless bra. 🤣

[the-grey-lady]

10 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

The doctor told her that her estrogen levels were menopausal (cue sad trombone).

And cheering from everyone else.

[FizzyPuff]

10 hours ago, Absolom said:

That was a TLC misdirect.  They actually saw a maternal fetal medicine specialist.  It was a TLC tease.  Michelle had her hormone levels checked to see if she was indeed past conceiving.  

These people are crazy is 19 kids not enough for them! 

[ginger90]

If FF isn’t vaccinated, he would be under a 10 day quarantine upon arrival. If that’s the case he should be done with that by now, I would think.  Any visitors will have to wear a mask. If they Caldwell it, they’re done.

[merylinkid]

9 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

That's it? Anna won't be pleased if JB/Meech want to visit. 

Anna will give up ONE visit every once in a while for JB to visit.   He holds the purse strings and she knows it.   Also he is probably her headship now.   But the siblings, naaaaah.   She will be all "He's MY husband.   I must be with him."   Plus she probably has some resentment for the siblings not being vocal about his innocence and what a victim he is.  I also don't see any of the siblings really caring to see him.   

[Notabug]

27 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Anna will give up ONE visit every once in a while for JB to visit.   He holds the purse strings and she knows it.   Also he is probably her headship now.   But the siblings, naaaaah.   She will be all "He's MY husband.   I must be with him."   Plus she probably has some resentment for the siblings not being vocal about his innocence and what a victim he is.  I also don't see any of the siblings really caring to see him.   

I don't expect that any of Josh' siblings give a good goddam about visiting him in jail or anywhere else.  I don't think Anna has to worry about any of them wanting to take some of her visitation time.  None of them seemed close to him at all, even back in the day before he was exposed as a predator; if anything, I would think his crimes and conviction have only distanced them further and I don't see any of them wanting anything at all to do with him.

[GeeGolly]

30 minutes ago, Notabug said:

I don't expect that any of Josh' siblings give a good goddam about visiting him in jail or anywhere else.  I don't think Anna has to worry about any of them wanting to take some of her visitation time.  None of them seemed close to him at all, even back in the day before he was exposed as a predator; if anything, I would think his crimes and conviction have only distanced them further and I don't see any of them wanting anything at all to do with him.

So true. They barely visit with their nearby siblings who aren't in jail so why would they visit Josh?

[Ohiopirate02]

Am I the only one who thinks Anna will be just fine following the rules when visiting Josh?  Pa Keller has a prison ministry and I believe the Keller kids all assisted their dad in this.  She should not be completely ignorant as to what is expected of her in order to visit Josh.  

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Am I the only one who thinks Anna will be just fine following the rules when visiting Josh?  Pa Keller has a prison ministry and I believe the Keller kids all assisted their dad in this.  She should not be completely ignorant as to what is expected of her in order to visit Josh.  

I think she'll be fine too. She'll do whatever it takes to see Josh. SHE needs to see him to continue this charade she has going on in her head.

[Tikichick]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I think she'll be fine too. She'll do whatever it takes to see Josh. SHE needs to see him to continue this charade she has going on in her head.

I agree Anna will follow the rules.   I'm torn about whether she will be able to handle visiting him much.   I think visiting him will pound home the reality of where they are for the next many years and I wonder how many visits and how much time it will take for that reality to seep into her consciousness in a way she cannot escape.

IMO initial visits will be a gut check, but the misery will be compounded as time goes on and they both inevitably begin to adapt and change to new circumstances and the passage of time.   The changes will stand out starkly to both of them in the absence of daily contact.   Couples with a spouse in the military experience these kinds of stressors and it destabilizes many relationships, ending some if they are unable to bridge those gaps.   The delusions of this cult may make ending the marriage out of the question, but IMO this incarceration will choke and stamp out altogether any molecule of a marital relationship that has survived this far -- even if what's left is only in Anna's fantasies.   

[dariafan]

On 7/3/2022 at 10:09 AM, merylinkid said:

All she needs to do is find a widower with 5 kids, and you have Cheaper by the Dozen (yes I know its not a blended family).   Or she can find a guy with 10 kids and they are only short one for Yours, Mine and Ours (Lucille Ball and Henry Fonda).

Shallow end of pool here :  young Tim Matheson.    On topic : I would love a forensic accountant to get ahold of their books 

[Boxer Woman]

On 7/5/2022 at 1:27 AM, Salacious Kitty said:

How would her eggs be fertilized what with FF in the slammer?

Not to mention, I am pretty sure the IBLP frowns on IVF. 

I posted about this months ago I think.  There are several ways I can easily think of for Anna to continue having more FF babies.  Anyone who watches "Love/Life After Lockup" knows all they need to do is time it out, get guards to look the other way and get her knocked up in the prison visiting room.  That method doesn't even require medical assistance; plenty of other available methods with it.  Then they could make up some crazy story about how God did this because he wanted them to have more babies so much (and to deny doing anything illegal/against prison rules).

IBLP and any other religious cults will always make exceptions to their stupid rules whenever it's advantageous to them so that's irrelevant.

I think it's more likely than not that Anna will have more FF babies, one way or another.

[LilJen]

On 7/4/2022 at 7:25 PM, Heathen said:

His teeth were always like that. The Duggar girls got braces, but boys in their cult don't need to worry about appearances (see: FF, JD, Nathan Bates, Zach Bates, Trace Bates, etc. etc. etc.) 

Public service announcement: Orthodontics are NOT (exclusively) about looks. They are about correcting bites/misalignments. So you can, you know, EAT and CHEW and stuff like that. (My MIL has always had lovely looking teeth, and her dentist (1940s-50s) determined that she didn't need braces. Has she been able to chew for the last 30 years? No, because she has an open bite that was never corrected.) </end PSA>

On 7/5/2022 at 10:56 AM, lulu69 said:

Didn't 'Got Hard' (still love that auto correct) preach that if his flock followed his basic life principles others will recognize their superior moral character and give them whatever they wanted? Something like that.

One of the letters someone wrote prior to Josh's sentencing had some phrase about others in the local jail being STUNNED by Josh's moral character, just so gobsmacked by his amazingness, that they converted. 

[Salacious Kitty]

9 minutes ago, LilJen said:

Public service announcement: Orthodontics are NOT (exclusively) about looks. They are about correcting bites/misalignments. So you can, you know, EAT and CHEW and stuff like that. (My MIL has always had lovely looking teeth, and her dentist (1940s-50s) determined that she didn't need braces. Has she been able to chew for the last 30 years? No, because she has an open bite that was never corrected.) </end PSA>

One of the letters someone wrote prior to Josh's sentencing had some phrase about others in the local jail being STUNNED by Josh's moral character, just so gobsmacked by his amazingness, that they converted. 

I used the laughing emoticon to respond to the comments about the FF. Your MIL has my sympathy. 😊

[lulu69]

On 7/5/2022 at 10:21 PM, Salacious Kitty said:

That's it? Anna won't be pleased if JB/Meech want to visit. 

I thought it was 2 visists per month of 2 adults each visit or 1 adult & 1 child over 5yrs age. If so, I can't see Anna going without a male headship to the big bad heathen prison. Maybe Anna + JB or Anna + David Waller.

Regarding Anna procreating past #7, the simplest solution (not necessarily the most scientifically sound solution) was to collect the FF's swimmers while staying at the Reber's in a cup & toss them in the freezer. Then insert them in a turkey baster at will. To quote Jessa, "Walla".

Edited July 7, 2022 by lulu69

[Snow Fairy]

But will they want to visit that often after two-three years?  After 10?

Every visit they can, every month, for years? 

[SMama]

Michelle didn’t attend the trial once, I don’t see her visiting. With JB it may depend on how bad he wants to berate the FF in person. 

[Notabug]

On 7/6/2022 at 9:19 AM, GeeGolly said:

I think she'll be fine too. She'll do whatever it takes to see Josh. SHE needs to see him to continue this charade she has going on in her head.

I think she'll follow the rules in order to see him, but expect that she will complain bitterly that JoshUa is extra special and deserves better than the other inmates in regards to visitation.  Then again, I'd imagine most families who visit loved ones in prison are less than impressed with the accommodations.

[Albanyguy]

6 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

But will they want to visit that often after two-three years?  After 10?

Every visit they can, every month, for years? 

I think Anna will visit as often as Jim Bob is willing to foot the bill for her travel (Prissy and David better brace themselves for a semi-permanent houseguest). She's always promoted herself as the perfect Fundie wife and mother and from now on, that will entail making a big production of "standing by her man". Jim Bob will visit Josh sporadically (probably accompanying Anna on her first few visits) but will eventually get bored and drop off.

I don't think Michelle will ever visit Josh, not even once. There will always be some excuse, probably along the lines of "It's too painful". And I'm sure it would be painful for her, as I think Josh is one of the few children she genuinely loves.  But Michelle is lazy and selfish and tackling difficult, painful tasks for someone else's benefit is not in her wheelhouse. The only reason she might feel compelled to visit is if she thinks she might be criticized if she doesn't. She can get around that, though, by having Jim Bob "forbid" her to go, in order to spare her delicate feminine sensibilities. Instead, she'll make a big show of sending him cards and letters (with lots of Bible verses) and money for snacks.

It's been speculated that Josh may refuse to allow any of them to visit him (he doesn't have to see anyone if he doesn't want to), but I doubt that will happen. One of the biggest hurdles a prisoner faces is boredom and a visitor, even if it's someone he doesn't like, is a welcome break in the monotony.

[Scarlett45]

33 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

I don't think Michelle will ever visit Josh, not even once. There will always be some excuse, probably along the lines of "It's too painful". And I'm sure it would be painful for her, as I think Josh is one of the few children she genuinely loves.  But Michelle is lazy and selfish and tackling difficult, painful tasks for someone else's benefit is not in her wheelhouse. The only reason she might feel compelled to visit is if she thinks she might be criticized if she doesn't. She can get around that, though, by having Jim Bob "forbid" her to go, in order to spare her delicate feminine sensibilities. Instead, she'll make a big show of sending him cards and letters (with lots of Bible verses) and money for snacks.

I agree. I do not see Michelle visiting Josh. I can see her writing him regularly, and sending him funds, but like many of you I predict Josh's only visitors will be Anna, and possibly JB. 

I have a much loved older cousin who served time for killing her abusive husband (in the 80s before Battered Persons Syndrome was widely acknowledged etc) and although her family loved her, believed that it was self defense, her visitor list was small. Her father couldn't bare to go and see her in that situation. When she came home she had tons of support (financially, personally etc and has been able to rebuild her life, she's now been home longer than she was incarcerated). If she rarely got visitors (although she got tons of letters and money on her account), and people believed her to be unjustly convicted, I don't see anyone taking the effort to go see Josh. None of his siblings would even write a letter for him! Not that I blame them, just commenting.

[StaceyNotStacie]

Josh’s attitude might suggest how often JB visits. If JB shows up and he cops an attitude about not having enough money in his account or goes on and on about how unfair this for him, the visits might become more and more infrequent. I’d almost love to see JB cut him off financially for a month or two just to set his pathetic ass straight. 

[Heathen]

14 hours ago, LilJen said:

Public service announcement: Orthodontics are NOT (exclusively) about looks. They are about correcting bites/misalignments. So you can, you know, EAT and CHEW and stuff like that. (My MIL has always had lovely looking teeth, and her dentist (1940s-50s) determined that she didn't need braces. Has she been able to chew for the last 30 years? No, because she has an open bite that was never corrected.) </end PSA>

One of the letters someone wrote prior to Josh's sentencing had some phrase about others in the local jail being STUNNED by Josh's moral character, just so gobsmacked by his amazingness, that they converted. 

Preaching to the choir. I don't set the rules for GotHardites. 

[Cinnabon]

15 hours ago, Boxer Woman said:

I posted about this months ago I think.  There are several ways I can easily think of for Anna to continue having more FF babies.  Anyone who watches "Love/Life After Lockup" knows all they need to do is time it out, get guards to look the other way and get her knocked up in the prison visiting room.  That method doesn't even require medical assistance; plenty of other available methods with it.  Then they could make up some crazy story about how God did this because he wanted them to have more babies so much (and to deny doing anything illegal/against prison rules).

IBLP and any other religious cults will always make exceptions to their stupid rules whenever it's advantageous to them so that's irrelevant.

I think it's more likely than not that Anna will have more FF babies, one way or another.

I think Ted Bundy managed to do this . . . 🤮

[Notabug]

50 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I think Ted Bundy managed to do this . . . 🤮

Bundy married a woman who he had known before his arrest while he was in a Florida prison in 1980.  She gave birth to a girl the following year despite the rules against conjugal visits.  It seems it was well known that the guards were open to bribery and could be paid to look the other way which is seemingly how it happened.  His wife eventually divorced him when he became 'involved' with one of his defense attorneys.  His ex-wife had believed he was innocent right up until he started confessing at the end to delay his execution.  She refused a call from him on the morning he was executed.

So, yeah, even the most heinous criminals have managed to father children while incarcerated.

[Cinnabon]

12 minutes ago, Notabug said:

Bundy married a woman who he had known before his arrest while he was in a Florida prison in 1980.  She gave birth to a girl the following year despite the rules against conjugal visits.  It seems it was well known that the guards were open to bribery and could be paid to look the other way which is seemingly how it happened.  His wife eventually divorced him when he became 'involved' with one of his defense attorneys.  His ex-wife had believed he was innocent right up until he started confessing at the end to delay his execution.  She refused a call from him on the morning he was executed.

So, yeah, even the most heinous criminals have managed to father children while incarcerated.

His wedding proposal is one for the ages, too.

[Notabug]

2 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

His wedding proposal is one for the ages, too.

This is true, nothing more romantic than proposing while cross examining a witness.  For those who don't know; Bundy's eventual wife was a character witness for him at a couple of his trials and he proposed while acting as his own attorney and questioning her in court.  Apparently, in Florida, all it takes for a legal marriage is for both parties to proclaim their desire to marry in front of a judge, so, when he asked and she answered yes, in the courtroom during his murder trial; they became legally married in Florida.  

Even the Duggars couldn't do better than that.

[Ljohnson1987]

At least Pris has a husband who isn't in prison. 

[Tikichick]

15 minutes ago, Ljohnson1987 said:

At least Pris has a husband who isn't in prison. 

I see what you did there.

[galaxygirl76]

1 hour ago, Ljohnson1987 said:

At least Pris has a husband who isn't in prison. 

He's a pecan thief though! 

[CalicoKitty]

7 hours ago, Notabug said:

I think she'll follow the rules in order to see him, but expect that she will complain bitterly that JoshUa is extra special and deserves better than the other inmates in regards to visitation.  Then again, I'd imagine most families who visit loved ones in prison are less than impressed with the accommodations.

I think if I was in prison, I would really not want my family asking for special privileges or attention.  And I would not act like I was expecting different treatment.  I would think that might not go down too well with the inmates that received even longer sentences.  I would think the smart thing would be to keep your head down and never do anything to draw attention to yourself.  Just my guess.

[Heathen]

3 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

His wedding proposal is one for the ages, too.

Heck, it wasn't even a proposal. It was "I DO marry you" and thus they were married. 

If Ofsmuggar announces #8, we'll know there were some crotchless bloomers involved. I apologize for the horrific mental image. 

[mythoughtis]

10 hours ago, SMama said:

Michelle didn’t attend the trial once, I don’t see her visiting. With JB it may depend on how bad he wants to berate the FF in person. 

I don’t think that either one of those two has been involved in prison ministry.  Therefore I don’t think they’ve ever visited a prison.   For normal law abiding people, it’s not a pleasant experience.  I’ve never visited a federal prison, but I have visited a couple of state prisons( medium and then later  a lower security prison for  the same extended family member).  Your every move is controlled. Where you sit, when you  can go in and out of the visitation area. How long you can stay.  What you can wear, where your eyes can focus ( your own table),  what you can bring in. You may be required to be escorted to the bathroom 

I do not think Michelle will go that often.  

Edited July 8, 2022 by mythoughtis

[Absolom]

Aren't all visitors searched?  Michelle might object to that.  JB might object to that on her behalf.

[Notabug]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

Aren't all visitors searched?  Michelle might object to that.  JB might object to that on her behalf.

I'm sure they have to pass through metal detectors.  I expect any physical searching would be done by someone of the same gender, though.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Notabug

[FizzyPuff]

On 7/7/2022 at 2:34 AM, Boxer Woman said:

I posted about this months ago I think.  There are several ways I can easily think of for Anna to continue having more FF babies.  Anyone who watches "Love/Life After Lockup" knows all they need to do is time it out, get guards to look the other way and get her knocked up in the prison visiting room.  That method doesn't even require medical assistance; plenty of other available methods with it.  Then they could make up some crazy story about how God did this because he wanted them to have more babies so much (and to deny doing anything illegal/against prison rules).

IBLP and any other religious cults will always make exceptions to their stupid rules whenever it's advantageous to them so that's irrelevant.

I think it's more likely than not that Anna will have more FF babies, one way or another.

But if Anna got pregnant while Josh is in Jail (even if somehow she sleeps with him or gets his sperm 🤮) won’t people think she’s had an affair? 

On 7/7/2022 at 2:51 AM, LilJen said:

One of the letters someone wrote prior to Josh's sentencing had some phrase about others in the local jail being STUNNED by Josh's moral character, just so gobsmacked by his amazingness, that they converted. 

[merylinkid]

13 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

I think if I was in prison, I would really not want my family asking for special privileges or attention.  And I would not act like I was expecting different treatment.  I would think that might not go down too well with the inmates that received even longer sentences.  I would think the smart thing would be to keep your head down and never do anything to draw attention to yourself.  Just my guess.

that is because you are a normal person CalicoKitty with a reasonable sense of decency.   This is FF, though.   I don't think the reality has quite sunk in yet that he is NOT special.   That just because he says he believes in the Right Jesus that he should get special privileges.    Anna is even worse.  FF will eventually figure it out because he has to live day in and day out with it.   Anna however, will only deal with it when visiting.   She will be proclaiming her specialness right and left.   partly because this is what she actually believes and partly because if she ever lets reality in she will absolutely flip out.   

But I honestly don't believe FF is capable of keeping his head down and not draw attention to himself.

[GeeGolly]

I think Josh is scared out of his mind. It was only 10 years ago he was crying in the driveway because they were moving to DC. I think it was less than two years later he was fired and went running back to AR. The FF is much more like Jessa in that he really is only big-man-on-campus when surrounded by like minded folks, or those he thinks are beneath him. There is no one beneath him in prison.

I'm guessing he'll try to schmooze the guards though. But he'll quickly learn that will only make his inmates hate him even more. I think its going to be rough going for helpmeetless headship for a good long time.

[Tikichick]

Josh is a predator.  Typically the predators have their moment where they fold like a napkin, and then the traits than enable their achieving their obsessions kicks in.  They assume they sit in a position above everyone else, knowing what mere idiots could never understand.

The twist here is he's in a box with others potentially much higher on the food chain in regard to grooming and manipulation.   Hopefully he doesn't pick up any tips and ideas in that regard.

[GeeGolly]

5 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Josh is a predator.  Typically the predators have their moment where they fold like a napkin, and then the traits than enable their achieving their obsessions kicks in.  They assume they sit in a position above everyone else, knowing what mere idiots could never understand.

The twist here is he's in a box with others potentially much higher on the food chain in regard to grooming and manipulation.   Hopefully he doesn't pick up any tips and ideas in that regard.

Predators prey on the weak and vulnerable. In prison Josh is not the predator - he is the prey.

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

Predators prey on the weak and vulnerable. In prison Josh is not the predator - he is the prey.

I'm sure there's plenty there he feels quite superior to.   They're not all sex offenders and therefore aren't even aware of the world he sees.

The worry is they play a long game, always keeping their end goal in mind.   The years aren't long enough.   

[GeeGolly]

6 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I'm sure there's plenty there he feels quite superior to.   They're not all sex offenders and therefore aren't even aware of the world he sees.

The worry is they play a long game, always keeping their end goal in mind.   The years aren't long enough.   

They may not be sex offenders, but they may be hardened criminals, or at the very least, have lived in the real world. The way I see it the FF is going to be on the bottom rung in more ways than one.

[Tikichick]

26 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

They may not be sex offenders, but they may be hardened criminals, or at the very least, have lived in the real world. The way I see it the FF is going to be on the bottom rung in more ways than one.

In my original post I did mention his standing in the food chain.

51 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

The twist here is he's in a box with others potentially much higher on the food chain in regard to grooming and manipulation.  

[Chaos Theory]

I don’t usually comment on this topic because I don’t watch this show or this brand of reality tv.   But I also don’t live under a rock (much to my parent’s amazement) and I do watch prison docuseries.   What I learned is that prisons have their own hierarchy with gangs and murderers at the top and sex offenders, dirty cops and rats at the bottom.      Of course there are exceptions but even the worst career criminal has a family he might not see outside prison walls again so a dude coming in a sex offender doesn’t usually fair well inside a prison.   If Josh was smart at all he would keep his mouth shut try to make alliances where he could but just do his time and not leave a footprint.   The last thing he needs is to stir up controversy just to knock up his wife while inside prison.    It would stir up a shit load of grief for the career criminals inside prison.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Chaos Theory

[GeeGolly]

I don't think either Josh or Anna give a shit about babies right now, but I wouldn't put it past the sex crazed deviant to try and get a foot job during a visit.

[Ljohnson1987]

Their proposal was so cringey. We've come a long way since then. 

[Nysha]

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm guessing he'll try to schmooze the guards though. But he'll quickly learn that will only make his inmates hate him even more. I think its going to be rough going for helpmeetless headship for a good long time.

FF has been in the county jail for the last 7-8 months and I'm sure he's figured out that the guards think he is a POS, so I don't think he'll try much schmoozing. Especially since he doesn't have anything to offer in return.

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

They may not be sex offenders, but they may be hardened criminals, or at the very least, have lived in the real world. The way I see it the FF is going to be on the bottom rung in more ways than one.

3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

What I learned is that prisons have their own hierarchy with gangs and murderers at the top and sex offenders, dirty cops and rats at the bottom.  

While FF will start at the bottom, this prison has a large population of sex offenders so his actual crime isn't going to be the issue. I think his lack of social skills and his smugness are going to be bigger barriers than his crime.

[irisheyes]

Isn’t he in medium security?  I think he’ll be mostly among criminals like him and not extremely violent felons. (That’s not to say there’s not a pecking order, but that it probably has a lower incidence of inmate v inmate violence.)

[ginger90]

59 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

Isn’t he in medium security?  I think he’ll be mostly among criminals like him and not extremely violent felons. (That’s not to say there’s not a pecking order, but that it probably has a lower incidence of inmate v inmate violence.)

He’s in a low FCI, not medium. Medium is much more likely to have violent offenders.

Edited July 10, 2022 by ginger90