Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Julia]

It's enough cheaper than New York that I seriously considered telecommuting from there if my husband could find a job in his field. 

[Seashell Lover]

I assume that Josh took the FRC job with some trepidation about his past being revealed. I also assume that the Duggar family believed that juvenile records would remain sealed. It is my understanding that both criminal and DCF records regarding minors are not supposed to be made public.

You are right that they are sealed but Smuggar did not have a criminal record all he has is a police report.

[GEML]

We do love it. But if you want to make it and not just make a living, it's not an easy place to do so. (And it's not the only place to struggle to make a name for yourself by any means.). And there are thousands of people who just make DC run. Their lives are rather ordinary. They could live anywhere, and just happened to be in DC. But others (and I think Josh is like this) are in DC because we are political junkies are need a fix, and are driven maniacs! :)

[Wellfleet]

One of the smartest political operatives I know only has a HS diploma. Yes, DC is a city that runs on Ivy League degrees, but it mostly needs you to be smart. The Ivy League degrees are a short cut way of proving that, but it's not the only way. There's also political smart and academic smart, which aren't the same. Then there is niche smart and general smart. Josh had a form of niche smart - and with some time and drive, I think he could have made it. He would need to work twice as hard as some other people, but others have done it.

But he completely blew the niche chance. He sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind.

 

Political smart and academic smart reminds me of a story from Tim Russert's book Big Russ and Me, where he talks about being a new staffer for Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan D-NY, one of the most intellectual politicians in recent history. Highly-educated and erudite, and apparently a pretty wonderful person too. Tim, IIRC, was from a working class family in Buffalo - his dad had been a trash collector - and Tim had a bachelor's from John Carroll Univ and his law degree from Cleveland State. One day he told Sen Moynihan how uncomfortable he was when participating in discussions with other staffers in the office, most of whom were Ivy League graduates like Moynihan. That he felt clueless and entirely out of his element. Sen. Moynihan told him something he'd never forget: "Tim, what they know, you can learn. But what you know, they can never learn..." Needless to say, Tim felt much better after that. 

Edited June 2, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Nochicfila]

Long time reader, first time poster. I may have missed it but I haven't seen anyone address this -

If Josh had not molested someone outside his family, this secret would never have seen the light of day. IMO, it's only because another child's parents knew that JB had to tell a church elder. Maybe that accounts for the year lapse. He'd gotten away with molesting his sisters so he moved on.

[xtwheeler]

I find it hard to imagine they didn't at least consider the likelihood this would surface at some point. I've said since I was 15 I already had enough dirt on me that I'd never survive being nominated for office. Plus, the option to have the victim(survivor) ask to have the police report destroyed was always there. They probably had too much hubris to even consider they needed to be proactive.

[Bella]

I think it's important to distinguish between political DC and non-political DC. If you're smart, the non-political side is fascinating and not "brutal." I'm self-employed just outside of DC and work almost entirely with government scientists. I love my work and don't feel the kind of pressure mentioned. I also love the culture, the museums, the restaurant scene, and a lot of other aspects of living here.

OTOH, I completely agree that this is no place for an under-educated person like Josh.

[silverspoons]

If I remember correctly Josh's big break came when he had to step in for Santorum a few times on the campaign trial giving speeches. This was when Santorum's youngest was ill. Josh was called the face of the young conservative family. Tony Perkins talked about it on one of Josh's first radio shows. FRC clearly had a plan for Josh. He was to get his feet wet and then during this election season he was going to be living in the FRC RV/Bus traveling to country on a grass roots mission to get the young conservatives rallied up. I feel Josh was a good fit for the job (not counting his past). If the FRC bus came to my city with Josh, I'll admit I would have gone to see it for a few minutes out of curiosity. If the FRC bus came without Josh, no way would I have considered going anywhere near it.

 

When Josh first got his job I was pretty mad at his fast track. I also had a good friend who was brilliant, went to the best schools, and started in the mail room for peanuts and was abused by everyone above them. I remember thinking this is the one of the smartest people I know, why would they turn down Goldman Sachs and other incredible international offers to work in a mail room for a politician and live in one room eating ramen. My friend lasted 2 years and then took a job overseas and then settled in the San Fran area. I went to his wedding and the connections he made in those 2 years in D.C. were incredible. He also had the best stories to tell about who he worked for. He says that hard work taught him what he wanted and was better experience for real life then his 3 ivy league degrees.

I hope that Josh has learned something from his D.C. job. Maybe it will just be he appreciates Arkansas more. I can only hope it has humbled him. I don't want to see him on my tv on a regular show again. If he does give one interview I would hope we could see the real Josh Duggar once. Even if he won't talk directly about his mistake. Is he that arrogant boy we saw in 17 kids as the narrator or the episodes and know it all? Would he ever admit to the stress of being a first born with a limited knowledge of the world? Did he want a career in politics or was it his dad's dream he was living? I really wonder does he even understand why the majority of the public is mad? Maybe he was so sheltered he told over and over again he was forgiven and healed, he believed nothing would come of this. I guess if we ever got the truth out of Josh about how sheltered he was raised and what his faith taught and his lack of schooling the Duggar's last 1% would implode.

[galax-arena]

I think it's important to distinguish between political DC and non-political DC. If you're smart, the non-political side is fascinating and not "brutal."

Yeah, and of course where politics are concerned, there are just people who thrive in that sort of pressure-cooker environment. I think my friend (whom I mentioned upthread; she worked as a campaign manager and now is a political director for a committee) is one of them. Maybe at a certain point we're just quibbling over semantics, but while my friend is insanely busy, I doubt she'd call her life in DC brutal or rough. She loves it too much. (I, on the other hand, would not survive a day in the world of DC politics.) Then again, this is the same friend who once visited me in NYC and later told me that she thought the city was too boring, so I'm pretty sure she's just nuts. ;) 

 

Anyway, not sure if Josh is the sort of person who'd flourish in that sort of pressure-cooker environment. I think he definitely probably liked the vibrancy of DC compared to his life back in Arkansas. But for the most part, IMO his job still had him ensconced in a safe cocoon/bubble of sorts. I felt like he never had to really engage the opposing side all that much, despite his posturing and persecution complex. I'm intrigued by the idea that he might have run for office one day. Can you imagine Josh taking part in a political debate? That would have been beautiful. 

[msblossom]

I really like this article's take on what the church's response should be re; sexual abuse. Basically states that the church cannot take the place of the State which is in place to punish crime. And note that the author is located in DC and has likely met Josh on many occasions as he is a conservative and president of the Ethics and Liberty Commission of the SBC.

http://www.russellmoore.com/2015/05/22/what-should-the-duggar-scandal-teach-the-church/

[Satchels of gold]

I would love to hear JimBob or Michelle, or Josh himself, address why he felt it was acceptable to molest his sisters rather than just masturbate in the shower.

 

That's the one part of this story I can't get over; all sexual sins are the same in their eyes. I mean dancing or impure thoughts or actual sex...it's all the same to them. So why, when he made a "mistake" did he choose the mistake that involved anyone else, especially his as-young-as-5-years-old siblings? 

 

I specifically remember in one of the early shows, they specifically mentioned that the bathroom should be locked when in use (toilet/shower time), and that no one was allowed to be in the bathroom at the same time. I remember that it stuck out to me as super weird...my family has normal boundaries, but if you're in the shower and someone needs in the bathroom, we'll just unlock the door and go in. It seemed so strange and puritanical to me, that the scene always stuck with me.

 

I just can't wrap my head around a situation that doesn't point to sexual predator...at 14 you possess enough logic and understanding of consequences to help you make/not make a decision. He had to know that he was infinitely more likely to get caught at molesting his sisters than he would at masturbating. Even if he only ever intended to touch them in their sleep, he HAD to have known the odds of getting caught...yet he still chose to do it. To me, that says it wasn't about a sexual urge. He could have jerked it out in the shower and no one would've been the wiser, and more importantly, no one would have been hurt by that. 

 

This is the thing that bothers me, and I haven't really seen this discussed. I've seen (here and other places) where people have mentioned that if he were a normal kid who had been allowed to have a girlfriend or to masturbate that this wouldn't have happened, but from everything I've seen, he chose molestation over masturbation.

I'm not being snarky when I ask this (crosses heart) but does anyone think Josh could be a sociopath? I don't watch the show and have never heard him speak but from the impressions and comments from the posters here, it does make me wonder.

Fwiw my husband went to medical school at Georgetown and we go back frequently. If Josh's reported salary is correct Josh made more than my husband did for the first 15-20 years out of his fellowship. But my husband has never molested anybody so I guess he wins.

[Aethera]

I'm not being snarky when I ask this (crosses heart) but does anyone think Josh could be a sociopath? I don't watch the show and have never heard him speak but from the impressions and comments from the posters here, it does make me wonder.

Fwiw my husband went to medical school at Georgetown and we go back frequently. If Josh's reported salary is correct Josh made more than my husband did for the first 15-20 years out of his fellowship. But my husband has never molested anybody so I guess he wins.

 

We've asked that people not try to diagnose anyone in this manner.  We simply don't know enough.

[Muffyn]

All that is to say, I think if Josh did have drive, ambition, and some natural skill he'd be fine in DC without a degree--but he's like 0-for-everything.

Hey now, he's  not zero for everything.  He definitely scored creepy molester points.  He is also up there for unlikable douchebag and limited world view.  Oh wait, you were looking at positive traits only.  My bad. 

[Satchels of gold]

We've asked that people not try to diagnose anyone in this manner.  We simply don't know enough.

So sorry :(

[SometimesBites]

Yes but Rove and Walker are also considerably older than Josh and a generation or two ago, having a high school diploma was sufficient. The likelihood of someone with his lack of everything and his age getting a job making that kind of money in this town is highly unlikely. The competition is just too high. There are people with master's degrees willing to wait tables. I had to finish my degree late, and worked among other jobs, as an administrative assistant. Every admin job I applied to required a bachelor's degree and I was turned down by quite a few just for that reason. I remember applying for an admin job at one of the Big 4 and had to do a panel interview with about six different people. I got to the end and one guy noticed my resume said my degree was in progress. They told me good luck and come back when you finish your degree. Ouch.

The best job that the average 27 year old with Josh's experience and education in DC or Maryland could get would be a job in the mall. And those kids have more education than he has.

^^^BINGO. And we've seen some of the materials they use at the school of the dining room table--those kids are not just inadequately schooled, but are systematically indoctrinated with horseshit. I'm not bashing homeschooling; I've seen homeschoolers who are quite brilliant young people...but only in cases where the materials and opportunities provided are inclusive and broadening, rather than exclusive and insular. Josh is a bloated, bloviating product of his parents' delusional thinking.

[Julia]

But then, if you look at who gets the Ivy admittances and the really good jobs, with all the educational advantages they had a fair number of them would have been SOL without their families pulling strings. Josh clearly wasn't qualified for an interview for the job he had, but he probably wasn't the only person he dealt with on the job who was swimming with the sharks because his family pulled strings.

 

Hell, Josh might've been president if he'd chosen the right parents.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Really, the fact that FRC would hire Josh - a young, sheltered guy with only a GED - for such a position says more about the FRC than it does Josh.

(Even the low-end suggestions of what Josh may have been making at the FRC are nearly twice as much as I make. I'm a few years older than Josh, graduated from a top tier university, and have a master's degree. So I understand the utter disdain for Josh getting that job & earning what he did.)

Edited June 2, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[mythoughtis]

I can't really fault Josh for trying to have an actual career rather than sitting around at the depressing car lot all day.  He 'didn't know what he didn't know'.  He had the cheerleader as his teacher, who mostly gave birth year after year, who taught him basically nothing.  His parents told him all was forgiven and he never even got charged... he thought it was all behind him.  It's only been in the last few years that every single person in the US has to wonder if every single transgression they have ever done will show up on the internet.  As sheltered as he was, he's got no way of knowing this. 

 

However, Jim Bob  as a former state rep, should have been aware of scrutiny like this, and should never have agreed to a TV show.  No TV show, no reason for any of this to have come out.  If Jim Bob had changed his family's lifestyle from fundy to moderate and put his kids in school when this happened, all of those children would have been better off. 

[MilkMachine]

I find it hard to imagine they didn't at least consider the likelihood this would surface at some point. I've said since I was 15 I already had enough dirt on me that I'd never survive being nominated for office. Plus, the option to have the victim(survivor) ask to have the police report destroyed was always there. They probably had too much hubris to even consider they needed to be proactive.

 

I've wondered about this since the scandal first broke. Notsomuch the Josh/politics angle, but the family's choice to pursue reality fame. By the early-to-mid 2000s I feel like it should be somewhat obvious that if you're going to be on TV then there's the potential for skeletons in the closet to come out. At the time of the first special the Josh thing was still a pretty recent skeleton. I have to wonder if there was a point where JB & M looked at each other and said, "If we go on TV [or pursue fame past the first or second TLC special], it's possible someone will dig up this dirt on Precious Josh."

 

My guess is that the other one said, "But free stuff" and that was the end of that discussion.

Edited June 2, 2015 by MilkMachine

[Julia]

However, Jim Bob  as a former state rep, should have been aware of scrutiny like this

 

Make that Jim Bob as a member of the Judiciary Committee of the Arkansas State House. I don't know if he lobbied for the job, but he sure as hell could have turned it down if he knew nothing at all about the laws in Arkansas.

[Churchhoney]

Comments about how rough Washington is always make me tilt my head too. I have 6 college friends who worked there, starting in their late 20s/early 30s - 3 of whom still do, and the only time I've heard any of them use the word "brutal" was when talking about the traffic or the cost of living. For the most part they all loved it,  especially all the history, culture and diversity in the area. I think any of those in other cities now would go back in a second. I can see how someone in Josh's situation - no solid education, no erudition, someone who doesn't even read or seem to have much curiosity about the world - would find it tough. But he'd find any large cosmopolitan city difficult, as well as smaller cities.

 

Oh, you're completely right about what a great, livable city Washington is --  so diverse, full of great people and with tons of things to do. Plus, it's beautiful -- overflowing with trees and flowers and parks. A few job sectors tend to be really difficult, ultra-cliquey, social-climbing and cutthroat because they're full of people clambering to be the closest ones to highest powers, though, and Josh D was certainly in one of those. There are others, too, such as the DC press corps. I agree completely that Josh would find any cosmopolitan atmosphere a problem. But he was in a cosmopolitan atmosphere -- which would be too much for him in any case -- and in a particularly hard-fighting sector of it. Couldn't have been pretty for somebody who came in thinking he was all that -- when he so isn't.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Churchhoney

[SmallTownMom]

Just read "Josh Duggar's 2012 year in review" on the Pickles and Hairspray facebook page.  Wow, every time Josh opens his mouth, stupid comes out.

[jschoolgirl]

But then, if you look at who gets the Ivy admittances and the really good jobs, with all the educational advantages they had a fair number of them would have been SOL without their families pulling strings. Josh clearly wasn't qualified for an interview for the job he had, but he probably wasn't the only person he dealt with on the job who was swimming with the sharks because his family pulled strings.

No, of course not. But even with the strings, they still had more education and experience to back up their strings at work. Strings are ultimately not everthing, and the smart people with strings know that. If you don't prove yourself and just ride on coattails, that gets around. Fast.

My dad, who had about an 8th grade education, used to tell me, "It's not what you know, it's who you know!" I told him, "No. It's who you know -- who knows *what you know*."

Ceteris paribus, Josh had the general type of coalition-building job that typically would be filled by someone who had -- at a minimum -- a bachelor's degree; internships in campaigns, PACs, Congress, a state legislature, or the RNC/NRCC/NRSC; then four or five years of work experience with the above sorts of groups. That's how Young Turks are formed.

Josh can't hack that. It isn't even something he could help.

Edited June 2, 2015 by jschoolgirl

[Julia]

No, of course not. But even with the strings, they still had more education and experience to back it up. Strings are ultimately not everthing, and the smart people with strings know that. If you don't prove yourself and just ride on coattails, that gets around. Fast.

My dad, who had about an 8th grade education, used to tell me, "It's not what you know, it's who you know!" I told him, "No. It's who you know -- who knows *what you know*."

Ceteris paribus, Josh had a coalition-building job that typically would be filled by someone who had -- at a minimum -- a bachelor's degree; internships in campaigns, PACs, Congress, a state legislature, or the RNC/NRCC/NRSC; then four or five years of work experience with the above sorts of groups.

 

I agree with you in principle, but I think we've all known people who have high-achieving, or at least affluent, parents and got places although they weren't much themselves. I've known very few of them who I don't think someone less privileged couldn't have bested on a level playing field.

[Churchhoney]

Just read "Josh Duggar's 2012 year in review" on the Pickles and Hairspray facebook page.  Wow, every time Josh opens his mouth, stupid comes out.

Thanks for pointing that out. Hilarious and horrifying at the same time.

[jschoolgirl]

I agree with you in principle, but I think we've all known people who have high-achieving, or at least affluent, parents and got places although they weren't much themselves. I've known very few of them who I don't think someone less privileged couldn't have bested on a level playing field.

Yes, that is true. But people tend to know that about them, and they often after a few years go "back home" -- probably in triumph.

Unlike Our Joshie!

Edited June 2, 2015 by jschoolgirl

[cmr2014]

I find it hard to imagine they didn't at least consider the likelihood this would surface at some point. I've said since I was 15 I already had enough dirt on me that I'd never survive being nominated for office. Plus, the option to have the victim(survivor) ask to have the police report destroyed was always there. They probably had too much hubris to even consider they needed to be proactive.

Where I grew up, it was not even remotely uncommon for young men from "good families" to be kept out of the criminal justice system. These were "good kids" from"good families" and "one mistake shouldn't ruin his future." The usual way that it worked was that the father brought the boy into the police station where he was given a stern talking to by a police officer, the boy expressed contrition and remorse, and that was it. I know this happens in other places, too, because there was a great deal if furor over the coddling of frat boys at my college who often committed pretty serious crimes.

 

I think that Josh felt himself to be an entitled young man from a "good family," and after his talking to from the police officer, he expected that this would go away. You can see that in the comment he made "you'll have to talk to my father about that." I think that he thought that JB had enough grease to make this go completely away.

[Julia]

Where I grew up, it was not even remotely uncommon for young men from "good families" to be kept out of the criminal justice system. These were "good kids" from"good families" and "one mistake shouldn't ruin his future." The usual way that it worked was that the father brought the boy into the police station where he was given a stern talking to by a police officer, the boy expressed contrition and remorse, and that was it.

I have an aunt who is a fervent supporter of zero tolerance because you can't trust "those people" for anything. It's common knowledge in the family that when her youngest was picked up for buying drugs from an undercover police officer in the church parking lot, the local cops in their very expensive neighborhood brought him home instead of booking him.

On the other hand, I know kids my kid went to school with who wouldn't consider going to a police officer if they were in trouble, the way I told my kid to, because they're afraid they'd end up with a record and ineligible for scholarships or the military or maybe dead.

I believe in rules. It's still really hard to explain why they're a good idea while the world works like this.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Julia

[Zung Li]

Where I grew up, it was not even remotely uncommon for young men from "good families" to be kept out of the criminal justice system. These were "good kids" from"good families" and "one mistake shouldn't ruin his future." The usual way that it worked was that the father brought the boy into the police station where he was given a stern talking to by a police officer, the boy expressed contrition and remorse, and that was it. I know this happens in other places, too, because there was a great deal if furor over the coddling of frat boys at my college who often committed pretty serious crimes.

 

I think that Josh felt himself to be an entitled young man from a "good family," and after his talking to from the police officer, he expected that this would go away. You can see that in the comment he made "you'll have to talk to my father about that." I think that he thought that JB had enough grease to make this go completely away.

 

That does make sense because in the 'Alice' comments she does say that DHS has been called about the Duggars more than once (she doesn't say what the calls were regarding) but that nothing was done because JB and friends were powerful in the area (paraphrasing Alice) That makes it seem like the only reason a police report was even made and DHS notified was that someone more important- Oprah-  alerted them.

[KittyS]

We do love it. But if you want to make it and not just make a living, it's not an easy place to do so. (And it's not the only place to struggle to make a name for yourself by any means.). And there are thousands of people who just make DC run. Their lives are rather ordinary. They could live anywhere, and just happened to be in DC. But others (and I think Josh is like this) are in DC because we are political junkies are need a fix, and are driven maniacs! :)

D.C. Is indeed full of driven maniacs, but "driven" will never be a word I associate with Josh Duggar. This is a man who could barely be bothered to roll out of bed to manage his own used car lot in between fast food runs.

Edited June 2, 2015 by KittyS

[becca3891]

Ok, but if we are going to say that Jim Bob and Michelle are abusive, are we pretty much prepared to say that nearly all Amish, and quite a few Orthodox Jewish families (to pull two fairly well respected fundamentalist groups out of a hat) are also abusive? Both deny a robust education to their children. The discipline methods of the Pearl book were based significantly on Amish methods. Both groups often have families so large individual children do not get the attention they need....

I think it's one thing to say this is not an ideal environment in which we would choose to raise a child. But if we cite the Duggars for abuse, we open a BIG can of worms.

If the question is, does beating your children with a rod qualify as abuse, then my answer is yes, regardless of culture or religion. I understand we don't have an official statement from Jim Bob and Michelle regarding corporal punishment, but I see no reason why their child would lie about it, especially considering they endorse the Pearls. I grew up fundy myself and was paddled with a board (horrible memories), and I realize many, many people today still think physical punishment is fine. But in my opinion, if what you are doing to a child would get you arrested for assault if you did it to an adult, then it is wrong and abuse.

 

Whether having 19 children and turning the older ones into foster mothers and housekeepers is abuse is far less clear, of course. But I think it's safe to say it's unfair.

[GEML]

I think Josh was driven in DC. But I think the realization was just beginning to dawn on him what it was going to require. To be honest, I was actually enjoying watching Josh and Anna have some glimmers of self-realization that what their parents taught them about the world wasn't all true and they were going to have to figure it out for themselves. That process was beginning for them just as this was happening.

But now everything Jim Bob warned Josh about has come to pass - the evil outside world that wants to destroy us for being God's Warriors might win. And Washington is filled with nothing but sell outs who look out only with their own interests.

That Josh is responsible for this will eventually be forgotten if he wants it to be and he will become a warped, frustrated old man.

[MrsChappy]

I bet the Duggars are thankful for Caitlyn Jenner right about now.....

[bencr]

I agree with you in principle, but I think we've all known people who have high-achieving, or at least affluent, parents and got places although they weren't much themselves. I've known very few of them who I don't think someone less privileged couldn't have bested on a level playing field.

 

This is so true, and it is supported by government statistics that show that people who are born in the top quintile of families income-wise almost invariably stay in the top quintile as adults, while people born in the bottom quintile tend to stay there as well. This lack of opportunity when it comes to income mobility is a large part of what feeds into the income inequality in this country.

 

It's not that wealthy kids are inherently smarter, but they tend to get better educations and receive more opportunities and "second chances" than poor kids.

Edited June 2, 2015 by bencr

[starfire]

Celia Rubenstein, on 01 Jun 2015 - 1:46 PM, said:

I wonder if TLC had already canceled the show, would Jim Bob and Michelle even be bothering with this interview?  

 

I think if TLC has already decided to cancel the show, the only reason the Duggars might do the interview is if TLC would allow them to announce during the interview that they have decided to stop filming the show, to focus on healing, prayer, yada yada, to make them look like they actually care more about their family than being reality stars...and that it was their decision.  Of course they would only do this if TLC told them they were canceling the show, Michelle and JimBob would never decide on their own to put their kids above the show.

Edited June 2, 2015 by starfire

[Bella]

Good morning!

 

This is the Josh and Anna thread. We have a Megyn Kelly thread now, and we still have the Media thread, the Jim Bob and Michelle thread, etc. Please try to be aware of what you're posting where.

 

Thanks!

[Ljohnson1987]

Happy 2nd birthday Marcus. Hope the scandal doesn't ruin your special day.

[GEML]

Coalition building today in politics is increasingly micro trending. We have already sliced and diced groups into such categories that each party is so targeted. (You might be pretty angry to know just how targeted the parties can be.).

Now each party is looking for micro-voters who may or may not be voting. And now that. Citizen United has lifted the cap, every special interest out there now has a political wing that is trying to find these voters. You offer a candidate a few thousand voters who are new to the party and that's GOLD.

There are similar people like Josh on the Dem side. You don't, for instance, send and Ivy League educated trained in DC person to working class NH to sign up voters who were helping organize a union. (My husband was told point blank by one union he was "over educated" and he'd worked for the AFL-CIO!) Micro targeting is the current trend, and Josh was part of that trend. Even if he was able to come through this, there might be another trend in 5-10 years. And if he's not built up a real resume by then, there isn't, to my knowledge, another easy way for him to break back into DC.

And of course, with this, he's toast. He's useful, but so there are twenty other people like him ready to take his place.

[msblossom]

That Josh is responsible for this will eventually be forgotten if he wants it to be and he will become a warped, frustrated old man.

Ah, that's right out of It's a Wonderful Life. Jimmy Stewart/George Bailey said that to describe Mr. Potter.

edited for punctuation.

Edited June 2, 2015 by msblossom

[Cherrio]

On the shower issue - we are assuming he was permitted shower privacy.

For G-d's sake, these kids can't even take a shower alone? Is there a friggin timer on the boy's bathroom door if they are in there more than 2 minutes and an alarm goes off?     I can hear the sirens and loudspeaker....sinner in the bathroom !     Who has the Masturbation prevention jurisdiction?

                    Wow

[barbedwire]

I bet the Duggars are thankful for Caitlyn Jenner right about now.....

My guess is that none of them are watching the news.

 

Do you think they will name their new baby "Megyn" (with that special spelling) if the interview goes well?

 

And another "Happy birthday" to Marcus.

[AnJen]

 

 

 

On the shower issue - we are assuming he was permitted shower privacy.

For G-d's sake, these kids can't even take a shower alone? Is there a friggin timer on the boy's bathroom door if they are in there more than 2 minutes and an alarm goes off?     I can hear the sirens and loudspeaker....sinner in the bathroom !     Who has the Masturbation prevention jurisdiction?

                    Wow

 

I could be interpreting it wrong, but having observed them, and from the comment that was made (I wish I could remember the special in which this was mentioned; I've watched relatively few of the actual episodes of the show, so it must've been one of the specials, and I feel like it was a small Howler who said it) about the importance of locking the bathroom door for privacy, I would assume that they shower alone. I mean, they can't even full-hug their own siblings or parents, it's side-hugs all around even for family, so I just can't picture a scenario where they would allow their children to see one another in any state of undress. 

 

I'm sure with 14+ kids they had a time limit on showers, but it's not like 14 year old boys have much in the way of stamina in that area...I feel like it could feasibly be accomplished, even if all they had was a 5-10 minute shower allowance. 

 

But I'm a girl who grew up with all girls, so men or people who grew up with men, feel free to chime in on that?

[jschoolgirl]

Micro targeting is the current trend, and Josh was part of that trend. Even if he was able to come through this, there might be another trend in 5-10 years. And if he's not built up a real resume by then, there isn't, to my knowledge, another easy way for him to break back into DC.

 

Exactly. That was pretty much what I was getting at. There are IBLP/ATI/homefooled people here; they just don't have the name recognition. And they don't trumpet it!

[Skittl1321]

I don't think they have ever mentioned what the rules for showering were, but these are the people who have multiple toilets in one room (with no seperate stalls)

[barbedwire]

I don't think they have ever mentioned what the rules for showering were, but these are the people who have multiple toilets in one room (with no seperate stalls)

Ewww.  I never noticed that.  Is that how the howlers/little girls got potty trained?  They had to go to the bathroom with their "mommy sister" and watch what they did?

[Satchels of gold]

I don't think they have ever mentioned what the rules for showering were, but these are the people who have multiple toilets in one room (with no seperate stalls)

Noooooooooooooo!?!?

[irisheyes]

Really, the fact that FRC would hire Josh - a young, sheltered guy with only a GED - for such a position says more about the FRC than it does Josh.

(Even the low-end suggestions of what Josh may have been making at the FRC are nearly twice as much as I make. I'm a few years older than Josh, graduated from a top tier university, and have a master's degree. So I understand the utter disdain for Josh getting that job & earning what he did.)

I think the FRC wanted Josh because he gave them a young face of the Religious Right. Any demographic study you read shows that the majority of young people are more liberal than their parents, so the FRC hoped that Josh, who was in his 20's with a young, photogenic family, could be their 21st century face to speak to younger voters, especially through social media. Doubt it would have worked, but it REALLY blew up in their faces.

I wonder if Anna is freaking out about how they'll feed all these mouths over the next months and years. I hope JB and Michelle don't mind supporting their precious Joshy boy for a good, long time.

[yogi2014L]

I could be interpreting it wrong, but having observed them, and from the comment that was made (I wish I could remember the special in which this was mentioned; I've watched relatively few of the actual episodes of the show, so it must've been one of the specials, and I feel like it was a small Howler who said it) about the importance of locking the bathroom door for privacy, I would assume that they shower alone. I mean, they can't even full-hug their own siblings or parents, it's side-hugs all around even for family, so I just can't picture a scenario where they would allow their children to see one another in any state of undress. 

 

I'm sure with 14+ kids they had a time limit on showers, but it's not like 14 year old boys have much in the way of stamina in that area...I feel like it could feasibly be accomplished, even if all they had was a 5-10 minute shower allowance. 

 

But I'm a girl who grew up with all girls, so men or people who grew up with men, feel free to chime in on that?

As a female who grew up with two brothers and we all shared the same bathroom, I could not tell you whether they took longer showers than normal or how long it took them to masturbate and I am glad I don't know! LOL!

 

I'll tell you one thing- male or female in the Duggar house- if they were allowed to lock the door I bet half of them took longer than necessary not to masturbate but  just to get the hell away from everyone 

Edited June 3, 2015 by yogi2014L

[What In The]

I don't think they have ever mentioned what the rules for showering were, but these are the people who have multiple toilets in one room (with no seperate stalls)

And to this I say....yuck! Two toilets equals no privacy and more to clean!

[Fuzzysox]

Why isn't Josh being hired by Hobby Lobby? I thought they like super religious people working there!?