Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[NikSac]

Not that I know of.  I went back and looked for what I had seen.  I was mistaken in that abuse happened at TTH - although it may have.  What I saw was on page 14 the address in Tonkitown (or whatever).  I realize now that it was the address of the place they lived when the interview was being given.  I believe that is correct.  If not, please correct me. lol

 

Ah ok thanks! I was thinking I missed something huge if there were other reports. I agree the addresses were confusing since the abuse (or at least the abuse being reported at the time) happened so much earlier and at their previous house.

[NextIteration]

No, Erica Hill. Watch it here:

http://www.today.com/video/pressure-to-cancel-duggar-reality-show-grows-451417667985

 

Here is the Tamron Hall piece. :)

 

The Thomas Roberts Pulse question of the day is whether the Duggars can recover.  <<This is live for the next couple hours and you can vote.

Edited May 26, 2015 by NextIteration

[b2H]

Sorry for the TMZ link, but according to them advertisers are dropping like flies.  Payless Shoes and Choice Hotels are the latest to pull out.  I haven't found verification on this, but it's not looking good at all for 19 kids.

Oh, don't worry. Surely, the 'buy your gold' set will step in to fill the gap [/sarcasm]

[whoknowswho]

I wish I didn't have to keep hearing about Josh's ill-advised, youthful "mistake." Molesting your sisters isn't a teenaged oopsie. It is indicative of a serious mental problem for which he needs help. The absolute worst message you can send to someone as sick as Josh Duggar is "we totally get it! You were fourteen! I made mistakes when I was fourteen too!" That feeds his sense of power and control, feeds his sense of being victimized by heathens. He didn't make a mistake. He demonstrated a sociopathic and cold-blooded thirst for power and control that STARTED with what he did to his sisters and escalated and escalated until he clearly felt no internal conflict about referring to Jill as a snitch, joking about incest, and accepting a job in which the JOB DESCRIPTION is to yell and scream about how transgender people are a threat to children. No self-awareness whatsoever. Extremely dangerous. And this is just what we have SEEN, just what we know actually happened!

^^ THIS.

Most of us were teenagers, and I'll wager that most of us never molested our younger siblings. Even if we had been molested ourselves. This is more than him just being a sexually repressed horny teenager. 

I feel he is a sociopath. He acted like one with no regard to the consequences UNTIL HE GOT CAUGHT. And if ANYONE thinks he's changed- that's not something you grow out of. Molestation is about power and control, he demonstrated to his family that he is in control of their bodies, until he got caught,  and only then did he act contrite.  I would not allow him 1000 feet near me or my family. 

[Zung Li]

I know this probably seems like a stupid question given the seriousness of the discussion but having been spared watching this show I'm trying to figure this out in regards to some of the things I've read about these people. Regarding the incest joke that Josh made- why were they going to an R rated movie? There is also an article on Jezabel (and I don't agree with the angle) about an interview with Cosmo from when the older girls were promoting their book. They are quoting Jessa talking about kissing and she says that she has kissed her brothers. I have read that the side-hugging was also required with family members. I've read in numerous places that these people think front hugging is a defrauding risk so why wouldn't kissing be as well? I've also seen people use the weird rules about touching as one explanation of how Josh became a molester so this kind of thing is relevant because it doesn't sound to me like he was as sheltered as people believe. He admitted (according to Alice) to looking at porn on the internet.

Edited May 26, 2015 by mingming

[doodlebug]

There hasn't been any public statement made from Oprah Winfrey or her production company Harpo. This is disturbing because if Oprah Winfrey was aware that the Duggars had a child molester living within their home wouldn't you think she would have spoken up about it?

 

Oprah is far too classy, she isn't Geraldo Rivera or Nancy Grace. She (or her production company) did all that was reasonable to do.  They received an anonymous tip about Josh' crimes and they turned it over to the cops.  Oprah was NOT 'aware that the Duggars had a child molester living in their home'; all she knew was that someone claimed that they did.  Big, big difference.  Oprah is not a law enforcement official, she's not even a mandated reporter.  No one has ever said that she witnessed anything or that anyone with direct knowledge ever said a word to her or her staff about what happened.  Oprah did the only proper thing; she turned it over for the legal authorities to handle.

[bluebonnet]

Regarding the incest joke that Josh made- why were they going to a rated R movie? 

I figure it was something like Passion of the Christ or similar.  A Christ/godly movie that happened to be rated R.  

[yogi2014L]

I don't care how dirty Jill's feet are or how crunchy Jinger's hair is; I'll never snark about any of the girls again.

 

The pain I feel for them takes my breath away. And in retrospect, so much makes sense now: Jill's rule-following and devotion to control and order. Jana's obvious sadness and relinquishment. Jessa's fuck-you self-protection. Jinger's devastation at losing Jessa, and Joy's at losing Jill. And throughout ALL of it, they cooked the meals and raised the kids and functioned as indentured servants to the very people who were obligated to protect them, but didn't.

I am with you. I feel so horrible for those girls. It was easy to snark on them when they were just bumpkins, but now I feel nothing but pity and sadness for them.

I really hope they know this is not their fault and they were failed miserably by their parents in nearly every single way. Jboob and Mechelle failed to protect, educate or prepare their children to be productive adults in literally every single way possible. 

Gawker has it now. Here

OMG and of course look at michelles dumbass stupid face gazing a Boob like he is the 2nd coming.

^^ THIS.

Most of us were teenagers, and I'll wager that most of us never molested our younger siblings. Even if we had been molested ourselves. This is more than him just being a sexually repressed horny teenager. 

I feel he is a sociopath. He acted like one with no regard to the consequences UNTIL HE GOT CAUGHT. And if ANYONE thinks he's changed- that's not something you grow out of. Molestation is about power and control, he demonstrated to his family that he is in control of their bodies, until he got caught,  and only then did he act contrite.  I would not allow him 1000 feet near me or my family. 

I bet the girls were so paranoid every single night until Josh moved out. I really can't even think about how hard it would be to be on edge all the time waiting for Chester the molester to come corner you in some laundry room/sneak into your room. But I bet Mechelle and Boob slept fine.

Growing up in that household had to be hell. 

 

Sorry for the long post. I have been following this family for YEARS over on FJ, and its just totally shocking and sad to think about that all those sin in the camp rumors where true. :-( I really feel for those poor children. 

 

Also can we get Boob and Mechelle on Doctor phil???? I'm picturing a Kim Richards style interview. PLEASE?

Edited May 26, 2015 by yogi2014L

[Happyfatchick]

I am so looking forward to them breaking their silence. I bet dollars to donuts they spent the whole entire weekend with any numberof advisers plotting and planning. Flip charts, dry erase boards, post it notes, tables littered with legal pads and markers. It probably looks like a campaign headquarters right now. At the end of the day, maybe this made JB nostalgic.

I can't even begin to imagine the strategies taking place. Good thing they had that supermarket of a pantry, huh?

Who's going to talk first? Will the girls give some sort of statement? I'm thinking that may be near the top of possibilities. I don't think we'll Joshie's face for awhile. It will be mildly (ha!) interesting to see how this plays out.

[Aja]

He acted like one with no regard to the consequences UNTIL HE GOT CAUGHT.

 

Yes!! Nothing could be more starkly obvious to me than the fact that Josh Duggar is 100% unrepentant. I have a very hard time believing he could have spent the last several years presenting himself as morally superior to everyone in the entire country and campaign hard to have rights taken away from entire groups of people and be the least bit repentant or remorseful about what he did, what he put other human beings through. Nope, he's always been all pinkly proud of himself and every single person surrounding him has reinforced this. He is dangerous.

[JenCarroll]

How about Michelle and Jim Bob come in front of the public with some sort of 'mia culpa', specifically to lesbians and gays, for being guilty of judging homosexuals as child molesters and admit how wrong they were since they found out their own son was a child molester. The LGBT community deserves an apology from the Duggars for lobbying to have the rights granted to them through legislation be reversed.

That's the last thing they'll ever do. It's not like they just found out their son is a child molester; they've known all along and it never held them back in their hate campaigns. They'll keep defending their right to their own beliefs, which is fine -- the problem is, you can't justify the claim that LGBT people are more likely to be child molesters as a religious "belief." It's not a matter of belief. It's a statistic that we can verify, and it isn't true. But, back on point, I don't see them ever backing down on their mission to oppress others. It's a classic example of the "It's different when we do it" philosophy, which has been applied countless times by many, many interest groups.

Edited May 26, 2015 by JenCarroll

[HumblePi]

That's the last thing they'll ever do. It's not like they just found out their son is a child molester; they've known all along and it never held them back in their hate campaigns. They'll keep defending their right to their own beliefs, which is fine -- the problem is, you can't justify the claim that LGBT people are more likely to be child molesters as a religious "belief." It's not a matter of belief. It's a statistic that we can verify, and it isn't true. But, back on point, I don't see them ever backing down on their mission to oppress others. It's a classic example of the "It's different when we do it" philosophy, which has been applied countless times by many, many interest groups.

I know that well. My response was to a comment about what the Duggar's could possibly do now, at this point in time, since Josh has already been dealt with their own way. I know that my answer was totally outside the realm of possibilities, it was tongue-in-cheek.

[Guest]

The Today Show speculated this morning that TLC might decide to continue the series under the guise of "showing REAL reality TV -- how a family handles a crisis of a monumental nature

Oh, that's interesting. Apparently TLC has a time machine in which they can travel back to 2000-whenever when Josh's crimes were committed. Oh? What's that you say, TLC? No? You're going to film another fictional reality show where these awful events are presented in a wholly different context with the actors fully aware that they are only NOW being scrutinized and let Josh and his awful parents "rebuild their lives" so they can continue their godly quest of telling me what I can do with MY body? Ohhhh...can't wait to watch THAT.

F these people. All of them.

I am firmly in the camp that TLC's silence speaks volumes at this point. They're not canceling the show -- only retooling it. They just haven't figured out how at this point.

[parisprincess]

They'll keep defending their right to their own beliefs, which is fine

 

What would really be fine is if they granted everyone else the same right instead of trying to foist their beliefs on the rest of the world.  Clean up your own backyard Duggars, before worrying about ours.

[Literata]

 

I am firmly in the camp that TLC's silence speaks volumes at this point.

Agreed. I didn't watch HBB, but wasn't the cancellation pretty immediate?

[Aja]

TLC isn't interested in morality, they're more interested in the fact that there seems to be quite a hefty viewing audience that thinks incestuous child molestation is a-ok so long as you love Jesus and "were only 14."

Edited May 26, 2015 by Aja

[Fuzzysox]

I  have to say this again.

 

It's always the "righteous" that get caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

[Guest]

Agreed. I didn't watch HBB, but wasn't the cancellation pretty immediate?

Yes, within nearly 24-or-so hours after the news broke. I mean they were in that house cleaning out every bit of production equipment, too.

And yet...crickets since Thursday about the Duggars.

[Wellfleet]

I  have to say this again.

 

It's always the "righteous" that get caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

 

You and Shakespeare are both so right, fuzzy. "Methinks he doth protest too much..." True 500 years ago, still true today. Probably always will be.

[Higgins]

I think repression of natural biologic hormonal urges under the belief in a punitive creator can cause this kind of perverse behavior. They should have taught that his natural hormonal urges were normal and taught him that masturbation was natural and healthy outlet to be done in private. Of course they made sure none of these kids had the privacy to do this. I blame them and their crazy ass teachings.

 

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2011/09/a-different-kind-of-sexual-abuse/

Edited May 26, 2015 by Higgins

[Churchhoney]

Here's what I'm struggling with:  Josh Duggar (and the whole family) is getting a bunch of much-deserved blow-back on this situation.  What he did was reprehensible, and we probably will never know all the details.  I'm not even sure I want to know.

 

But, how can a person ever come back from this kind of thing?  Without excusing or minimizing the impact of his actions, he apparently did this at the age of 14.  Can he ever demonstrate enough public remorse to be allowed to get on with his life in some way? Should he have never married, never had kids, or never tried to have a job linked to his faith?  Even stipulating that there are some options for his life that he foreclosed upon with his actions, is there ever anything he can do to be allowed to be a productive adult?  

 

I'm not trying to defend him or his actions, but I am trying to understand how to think about the idea that any actions taken or remorse shown aren't enough.  Can anything ever be enough?

 

For me it would be enough for someone to get into some kind of continued counseling; eventually get into some kind of public or private assistance or advocacy work to aid victims of similar things; when expressing remorse state more accurately the actual nature of the offense publicly at some point (not necessarily giving a lot of details and not necessarily doing that all the time -- but definitely stating that one had done was a crime and evidence of a very major problem, rather than describing it as a one-off mistake for which one has surely been forgiven by the God of the whole universe); and thereafter to refrain from calling the person who apparently blew the whistle "a snitch," refrain from making jokes about the class of crime one committed ("We are from Arkansas"....), and refrain from setting oneself up as a primary stone-thrower against lots of other people who purportedly egregiously harm the same victim class but without committing crimes -- such as the "harming children" attacks Josh launched daily in his previous job against gay people, Islamic groups, abortion doctors, etc.; and to restrain one's family from repeatedly declaring on international television that their household's principles result in a super-healthy environment that's better for children than all other environments.

 

That would be plenty for me. And since plenty of people have approached their past problems by doing many of these things, I don't think it's too much to ask. If he'd even started down this road it would work for me -- if he did it thoroughly enough, I could absolutely admire him for it.

 

For me, it's far less about what he did than about the subsequent response to it by him and by his parents. (which is not to minimize the very troubling nature of what he did)

Edited May 26, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Oldernowiser]

Agreed. I didn't watch HBB, but wasn't the cancellation pretty immediate?

As I recall, it took a few days...long enough to get a roomful of accountants, lawyers, and programming execs together to figure out the financial consequences.

Ironically, the HBB debacle is probably helping the Duggars...can TLC afford to lose that much programming? Ten years is a lot of episodes...not to mention all the side stuff I'm sure TLC has a piece of.

Somewhere, that idiot Kody Brown is grinning his fool head off. This should guarantee they drag that terrible, boring show out for a few more seasons.

ETA: The more I think about it, with the disclaimer that I never watched the show regularly because I was afraid my eyes wouldn't recover from that much eye rolling, I can't think of a single episode that is salvageable as a rerun. There's always some kind of sexual innuendo, defrauding discussion, courtship rules...even the "buddy" system now has sinister overtones.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Oldernowiser

[kathe5133]

There hasn't been any public statement made from Oprah Winfrey or her production company Harpo. This is disturbing because if Oprah Winfrey was aware that the Duggars had a child molester living within their home wouldn't you think she would have spoken up about it? She is a victim of sexual abuse and I feel the omission on her part to expose this publicly makes her as responsible as TLC.

Oprah needs to be careful from a legal standpoint.  Oprah did not witness the molestation, she heard about it third hand, I think.  It may have been from someone anonymous...  but at any rate.  Slander/Libel lawsuits can be expensive to fight and it seems like the truth is out there.  All Oprah has to do is sit back and watch everything unfold.  Adding her voice to the din would serve no one. 

[starfire]

aethera, on 26 May 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Gawker has it now. Here

 

Good!  All the Duggar hypocrisy needs to be brought to light.

 

I would love for someone to ask JB if he thinks Josh should get the death penalty.

[JoanArc]

Walgreens says they are monitoring the situation, but haven't pulled ads yet. I really, really hope they yank them.

 

The alive fest still lists Josh and Ann, Jill and Derrick, and Ben and Jessa as speakers. Gack.

[Churchhoney]

I would guess that right now, Jim Bob is plotting strategies for how to bring in money. One possibility is to set some of the girls up to do interviews where they explain that kids make mistakes, all is forgiven, they're long since healed, etc. The problem with that is the follow-up questions and not being able to predict whether the girls hold it together. Maybe some of the Christian broadcasters? They could wax on about the power of forgiveness and not being your own victim, and if they cry it can all be attributed to their overwhelming love for the lord. Thoughts? Will interviewers continue to accept the "pre-approved questions only" rule? (This is, of course, only my guess about one angle that could be under discussion, nothing more.)

In the past, interviewers could avoid any boat rocking by avoiding tough questions. Now, though, they'll be in trouble if they DO avoid tough questions. Maybe some of the very tiniest Christian news outlets could get away with a softball interview, but anybody else would be taken to task by all if they did it, I think. And doing interviews with tiny Christian outlets won't pay the bills for a super-family. .

[Dawn16]

I am with you. I feel so horrible for those girls. It was easy to snark on them when they were just bumpkins, but now I feel nothing but pity and sadness for them.

I really hope they know this is not their fault and they were failed miserably by their parents in nearly every single way. Jboob and Mechelle failed to protect, educate or prepare their children to be productive adults in literally every single way possible. 

OMG and of course look at michelles dumbass stupid face gazing a Boob like he is the 2nd coming.

I bet the girls were so paranoid every single night until Josh moved out. I really can't even think about how hard it would be to be on edge all the time waiting for Chester the molester to come corner you in some laundry room/sneak into your room. But I bet Mechelle and Boob slept fine.

Growing up in that household had to be hell. 

 

Sorry for the long post. I have been following this family for YEARS over on FJ, and its just totally shocking and sad to think about that all those sin in the camp rumors where true. :-( I really feel for those poor children. 

 

Also can we get Boob and Mechelle on Doctor phil???? I'm picturing a Kim Richards style interview. PLEASE?

I am angry on behalf of every child who is victimized and made to feel unsafe in her own home, but their upbringing made them especially vulnerable.  And to actually be able to read strangers' opinions on the internet over and over that it was an adolescent mistake that God has forgiven and a PRIVATE FAMILY MATTER makes me furious. [ I will admit that I have been reading about child victims of adult molesters as part of my work in the past month (and close family members who call the victims liars), and had a lot of anger about this issue before this information was released.]

 

I can't get Amy Grant's song, "Ask Me," out of my mind:

 

"I see her as a little girl hiding in her room

She takes another bath and she sprays her Momma's perfume

To try to wipe away the scent he left behind

But it haunts her mind

You see she's his little rag, nothing more than just a waif

And he's mopping up his need, she is tired and afraid

Maybe she'll find a way through these awful years to disappear

Ask me if I think there's a God up in the heaven

Where did He go in the middle of her shame?

Ask me if I think there's a God up in the heavens

I see no mercy and no one down here's naming names

Nobody's naming names

Now she's looking in the mirror at a lovely woman face

No more frightened little girl, like she's gone without a trace

Still she leaves the light burning in the hall

It's hard to sleep at all

So she crawls up in her bed acting quiet as a mouse

Deep inside she's listening for a creaking in the house

But no one's left to harm her, she's finally safe and sound

There's a peace she has found."

[starfire]

Happyfatchick, on 26 May 2015 - 10:24 AM, said:

I am so looking forward to them breaking their silence. I bet dollars to donuts they spent the whole entire weekend with any numberof advisers plotting and planning. Flip charts, dry erase boards, post it notes, tables littered with legal pads and markers. It probably looks like a campaign headquarters right now. At the end of the day, maybe this made JB nostalgic.

I can't even begin to imagine the strategies taking place. Good thing they had that supermarket of a pantry, huh?

Who's going to talk first? Will the girls give some sort of statement? I'm thinking that may be near the top of possibilities. I don't think we'll Joshie's face for awhile. It will be mildly (ha!) interesting to see how this plays out.

 

 

I'm worried that JimBob and Michelle are pressuring and otherwise guilt-tripping the daughters into potentially making public statements that they don't really agree with. Or at least being advised that someone else (JB, an attorney for JimBob) will be making statements about them saying that all of them are fine, got help, they forgave Josh, Josh has changed, Jesus healed everyone, the parents did everything right,  yada, yada.

 

I am worried that whatever JimBob and his goons have up their sleeves to spin this that it will further traumatize them.

[SomePity1066]

When I was 14 I made a mistake. I was with some older kids and, to "be cool", drank some Jack Daniels, after having, to date, only a few sips of beer here and there in my newly acquired adolescence. I have no memory of what happened, but I nearly died. The heartache I put my parents through shames me to this day. I was made to go before a judge, apologize, pay a fine (which I paid, not my parents !) and my father had a police officer come over and scare the bejesus out of me for FOUR hours. I deserved all of it. My parents are gone now and I'm in my late 40s, but I am, technically, still grounded. 

 

THAT'S a mistake. 

 

What Josh did was so far from a "mistake" it makes my head spin ! And JB and Michelle, slippery as eels, did their damndest to just make it all go away while keeping some of Josh's victims tethered to him while making them smile and keep sweet ! How abhorrent, reprehensible, and disgusting. I taste bile when I think about this whole debacle.

 

JB and Michelle didn't just let the fox into the henhouse, they KEPT him there. They celebrated him, crowning him as the successor headship of the Duggar empire. They were PROUD of him. What they did to those poor girls is almost as bad as what Josh did. 

 

The grace the girls showed though out the last decade is almost unimaginable. How they kept it together is a miracle, and thank God they had each other. Oh, and screw the idea that the side-hug originated with Jessa and Ben, as that's been on the show for YEARS - it probably had its origins in Josh's sexual assault. 

 

Sorry my thoughts are all over the place here, but this has me really, truly rattled. I'm normally more put together than this but not today. 

 

As a final thought, I think Josh should have learned the difference between "I need to pray" and "I need to prey"...

[Julia]

I think that the family's PR people / production company are smart enough to have realized what many of the Duggars' online supporters have - the best way of derailing this conversation is to plead the girls' privacy. They can't do that and make them talk to the press.

[NikSac]

The Today Show speculated this morning that TLC might decide to continue the series under the guise of "showing REAL reality TV -- how a family handles a crisis of a monumental nature." But I really don't think that will fly with the viewing public, or with advertisers.

 

hahaha... ok not really, nothing is funny about this situation, but the DUGGARS being REAL?  I think that ship has sailed. I can't imagine anyone believing a word they say anymore, except their die-hard fans who think they can do no wrong.

[Oldernowiser]

I will be shocked if the girls don't come out with some group interview absolving their brother. Shocked.

Because if they don't, the gravy train jumps the tracks for good and JB isn't going to let that happen.

Besides, the family has been putting on an act for years, why would they believe it wouldn't work now?

The only way this might not happen is if there's something more lurking out there and inviting more scrutiny would be too dangerous.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Oldernowiser

[Aja]

 

What they did to those poor girls is almost as bad as what Josh did.

A thousand times yes to your entire post with the exception of the word "almost" in the above sentence. I think what Boob and MEchelle did was every bit as abhorrent. You said it so well...they celebrated him...crowned him the new Quiverfull King and would not shut up about how proud they are of him, and the whole time their daughters watching, their daughters learning everything they need to know about their own worth, their daughters...left with no other choice...internalizing everything. My greatest hope is that at least one of the daughters has the almost-inconceivable strength and courage to completely reject what has been forced on her. Publicly or privately, I don't care which, I don't need to know. If one of them can do it, it will make it a lot more feasible and likely that others will give themselves permission to follow her lead. 

[HumblePi]

Are the five girls who were allegedly sexually molested considered accessories to their own molestation considering the fact that they're adults now and have the freedom to speak up for themselves?  Does the money coming from TLC for their appearances on the show convince them to protect the brother that committed crimes towards them?  Did Michelle and Jim Bob swear them to secrecy in order to keep the gravy train rolling smoothly on track? Did they sacrifice five girls in order to protect their oldest son who had political aspirations?

 

So many questions, so few answers.

 

I'm certain that a lot of the answers comes right from Wikipedia and Jim Bob Duggar's political ambitions.

 

"From 1999 to 2002, Duggar served in the Arkansas House of Representatives for the sixth district, which included part of northern Washington County, Arkansas. Duggar was vice chair of the House Corrections and Criminal Law Subcommittee and also participated in the Insurance and Commerce Committee and Judiciary Committee.

He also ran in the Republican Party of Arkansas primary election for the United States Senate in 2002, but lost to incumbent Senator Tim Hutchinson by a vote of 71,576 to 20,546. Duggar sought the Republican nomination to the Arkansas State Senate District 35 seat in 2006, but lost to candidate Bill Pritchard by 200 votes."

 

Now really, how could a conservative Republican run for political office if people knew he had a son that molested younger siblings?

Edited May 26, 2015 by HumblePi

[Cherrio]

I'm worried that JimBob and Michelle are pressuring and otherwise guilt-tripping the daughters into potentially making public statements that they don't really agree with. Or at least being advised that someone else (JB, an attorney for JimBob) will be making statements about them saying that all of them are fine, got help, they forgave Josh, Josh has changed, Jesus healed everyone, the parents did everything right,  yada, yada.

 

I am worried that whatever JimBob and his goons have up their sleeves to spin this that it will further traumatize them.

That is my thought as well. He reeks of being a world class coward.

[autumnh]

They all had access to computers, both desktops in the computer room and laptops. I would bet that all of those had been donated to the Duggar family. Reading the article and the statements made by "Alice" I've concluded that she's an older woman judging from some of her terminology such as "a pretty penny' and I also concluded that she's a member of their 'home church'. But I can also see that she isn't highly educated which means she's one of their cult members.

 

“Around 9:00 a.m., the children start their music & individual studies–for grades 3 and up, studies such as Mathematic, Language Arts, Science, and History & Geography are done on the computer with Switched On Schoolhouse,” Michelle said.

 

 

 

What makes me LOL SO hard about these photos is their phony claims of being frugal. My husband and I are hardcore apple fans and we have 3 new apple laptops and two iMacs, iPhones and iPads...they are EXPENSIVE...you'd think for being so cheap they'd be using refurbished laptops....

 

Mac Books, iPads, iPhones, designer clothing...they do not shop at Goodwill anymore or Aldi...they are just so fakety fake fake.

[Buggin]

I was wondering if Anna and Josh had any sort of pre-nup. If not, could she THEORETICALLY get a nice chunk of change from the family in exchange for keeping her mouth shut if she and Josh divorced? I don't think she will divorce him, at least not anytime soon, and I think she will be concerned enough for her kids not to drag their father's name further through the mud, but if she decided it was time to get the hell out of dodge and wanted to ensure she and her kids would be well-taken care of I wonder if she could threaten to go to the press or do a book deal and spill secrets.

[selenitetower]

This may have already been addressed, but I'm not seeing it since there are so many replies to this topic.  When I read the police report, I could swear I saw six victims.  The interviews I read with victims were number 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, and number 17 (who was the person asleep on the couch).  That would total six people.  Am I losing my mind here?  All I see and read are about five victims.  Can someone take a look at that and tell me if I'm going crazy?

[JenCarroll]

This may have already been addressed, but I'm not seeing it since there are so many replies to this topic.  When I read the police report, I could swear I saw six victims.  The interviews I read with victims were number 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, and number 17 (who was the person asleep on the couch).  That would total six people.  Am I losing my mind here?  All I see and read are about five victims.  Can someone take a look at that and tell me if I'm going crazy?

One of the interviewees said she was never touched.

[anstar]

I'm trying desperately to catch up but I'm not there yet. Something I want to say I haven't seen addressed yet. Hopefully someone hasn't said it on a page I haven't gotten to... It's about the abysmal redaction job done on the police report. If they had simply redacted the parents names as well, the victims' identities would have been truly protected. By leaving Jim Bob and Michelle open they may as well have just named the girls. Can't unring a bell but someone's head should roll for that.
 

[snip]

Edited May 26, 2015 by AmandaPanda
speculating on identity of victims

[SoSueMe]

Oh, don't worry. Surely, the 'buy your gold' set will step in to fill the gap [/sarcasm]

It is jarring to me that I know exactly who you are referring to. Well done.

[selenitetower]

JenCarroll - Thank you.  I totally missed it.  Interview 12 says that she was never touched.  

[hathorlive]

 

As do I. But not forever. Josh was a child, too. at the time. He was only 14 years old. You've made mistakes before, I'm sure. Lord knows I have. I'm glad I can forgive and grateful that I can be forgiven.

 

I've debated about posting this a few times and I always back off, not wanting to add fuel to the fire. Mods, please remove if you feel this is inappropriate to the thread.  But I really would like to stress what this "mistake" does to the victims.  I have a masters degree in counseling but I don't use it.  I currently (and for the past ten years) have worked for a federal law enforcement agency doing computer forensics.  In this course of work, I have spent a good amount of my professional time watching child porn.  Video after video of victims of abuse and incest.   There are a lot of things that videos capture that still photos don't: the anguish of the victim, the coercion of the perpetrator, the absolute abuse of power in this situation, where the perp has it all and the victim has none.  I don't think most people realize how horrible this act is.  Molestation, abuse, rape.  It's something I pray that none of you ever have to view, or sit on for a jury.  Or experience in real life.

 

What I can't forgive are the parents who let ONE child suffer this and in doing NOTHING (be it Gothard "counseling", church confessions, apologies) created FOUR more victims.  Four more children who had to suffer and carry this pain.  I don't profess to having any religious beliefs at all, but I can't forgive Josh and Law Enforcement shouldn't forgive him.  I won't forgive Jim Bob and Michelle who created more victims because they basically didn't want to sully their family name.  And that's what it comes down to.  Pride.  If a God can forgive him, great.  But he shouldn't be above criminal prosecution because his sisters were coerced again to forgive him. 

 

I'm sorry if this is inappropriate, but I just wanted to get that off my chest.  The only concern of god fearing people should be those girls and making sure they aren't trapped into filming with their abuser for perpetuity.

[MJDai]

I’m a little worried you’re all going to be disgusted with me but here it is: I am having trouble fitting the image of Josh I had before (loving husband and father, bully to LGBT and women’s rights) and this new one of molester. I find myself going back and forth between Molester Then, loving father/husband and whackjob right-taker now, and Molester who cannot be a loving father/husband.

Even if I only take into account what we know- he molested five minors, and keep aside all speculation about the possibility of his being a sexual predator now. How can he be both have molested his sisters AND love his daughter? I find myself excusing his “teenage mistake” until it makes me physically ill. Then I try to make him less of a dad but that is not fair to his family.
I think I have been so conditioned into viewing the world in black/white, good/evil that seeing that a person can be more than a molester takes some real effort. He was never all good obviously. Good people try to help others, they don’t try to put restrictions  on who is allowed to love who. But he was ruining lives from the safety of his office, never having to witness the pain and destruction of life he was causing. That makes him an idiot, a bully and a coward. Now we know he’s a molester as well. Invading the sanctity of the body of another without consent, we can all agree that’s just evil.

But evil people don’t have lame competitions with their brother-in-law. They don’t carry their children or are too weak to tell their wife they don’t want more kids. We don’t see evil every week on the tv smiling at us as he recounts another inane event of his life. We certainly don’t let evil into our living room, or in the case of their fans, into our hearts. So how can he be evil? How can he be a molester?

And at that point the whole circle starts anew. Josh Duggar made a mistake. Could happen to anyone. He molested 5 minors. Evil. Aw Crap!

If anyone can explain to me how someone can love his family and still have molested his sisters (amongst other) I would be interested to know. This is breaking my head.

(Written in first person singular because I don’t want to assume, but I think these same thoughts are what makes fans stick by Josh Duggar.)

[zenme]

I was a victim of this type of molestation as well, and for years it was easier to deny than to admit. Teens are especially adept at this thinking--that one may forget it happened if you deny or don't think about it. I hope to God this person who was questioned and denied was telling the truth. If not, I understand the thinking, but the pain doesn't go away.

Edited May 26, 2015 by zenme

[dorcastrilling]

Direct TV in Northern New England has 3 episodes back on demand after pulling them Sunday.

[Sew Sumi]

I figure it was something like Passion of the Christ or similar.  A Christ/godly movie that happened to be rated R.  

It was a private screening of Fireproof before it was released to the public. No one under 18 allowed. Sorry it wasn't anything more dramatic than that. 

 

eta: I looked for the film's actual rating, which I recall to be PG, but I couldn't find it. It was certainly not rated R. Remember, the entire Duggar family saw it at Doug Phillips' old fundie Film Festival, and JB proclaied it something to the effect of "a great family movie." 

Edited May 26, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[wanderwoman]

[snip] Josh realized he did something wrong, took ownership of his actions, confessed to his parents (who then took action) and repented. It's not as if he were caught in the act and forced to own up to it. When he was 14 years old. If every teenage mistake - big or small - were held against any of us for the rest of our lives, the world would be a pretty miserable place. I think it's great that Josh told Anna and her parents two years before there was a courtship/engagement/marriage. I think it's admirable that Anna is standing by her husbands side.

 

As many of you have, I've emailed and snail mailed TLC. In my case, though, I've asked them to reconsider cancelling this show. I'd like to see it stay on the air. If television only aired things I agreed with sponsored by companies whose political stances I agreed with - there wouldn't be anything at all on.

With all due respect, I think we all have to decide, individually, where we fall on this issue. I'm not sure how much if this forum you've read since Friday (the volume is overwhelming): but, I think you will find that many of us are sympathetic to Josh's childhood and minor status. Speaking only for myself, what Josh did as a minor, as awful as it was, isn't the reason why I'm angry and want TLC to stop the show. Knowing what we know now, TLC, Michelle and Jim Bob sought out publicity and created an empire based on a wholesome, scandal free image KNOWING that they had a very real, criminal problem on their hands. They've built an empire by constantly devaluing the rights and privacy of their children. They agreed to exchange their privacy for celebrity and money. What John sho did was undeniably wrong. What his parents did (waiting to disclose it and failing to protect ALL of their kids) is the bigger issue. It was beyond naive for then to think three months of construction work would fix the problem. Taking this to church elders (which, at that time, consisted exclusively of Jim Bob and a few friends- none had degrees in psychology or social work) means nothing. Going to the officer you are friendly with (and who turned out to be in to kiddy porn) isn't obtaining adequate care. Telling a five year old girl that she had the power to defraud anyone is downright disgusting. Duggars supporters seem to be missing the fact that Jim Bob did NOT report this to the police or family services when it happened. As a political family, they had to know that waiting for the sixth offense to take your kid for a chat with a cop isn't adequate. That cop was protecting Josh, not the girls. Signing up to do a series was the last thing this family needed or needs.

[juneday]

It was a private screening of Fireproof before it was released to the public. No one under 18 allowed. Sorry it wasn't anything more dramatic than that.

eta: I looked for the film's actual rating, which I recall to be PG, but I couldn't find it. It was certainly not rated R. Remember, the entire Duggar family saw it at Doug Phillips' old fundie Film Festival, and JB proclaied it something to the effect of "a great family movie."

Lol interesting, because I'm almost 100% sure Fireproof was about the husband who was a firefighter who was addicted to porn (which was implied heavily in the movie) and the wife was about to leave him because of it.

ETA: and then the husband converted to Christianity and found God and the couple reconciled, of course. But the porn thing is ironic to me.

Edited May 26, 2015 by juneday

[Aja]

Haha, yeah, I remember the Fireproof episode. Kirk Cameron's wife stood in during the kissing scene because Kirk won't even kiss another actress for a role. The Duggars thought that was profoundly awesome, of course.