Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Fuzzysox]

Josh doesn't live with the family. I think it would be hard to find evidence of abuse or neglect. Especially if the kids might not talk.

But Josh goes to the TTH an awful lot and there are still plenty of minors around. Someone mentioned Jenni has changed. I'm not saying anything happened but on the news they claim there is going to be an investigation. I think there are more victims that we might know about. JMHO

[MMLEsq]

I would be surprised if TLC does cancel the show. However, my hope is that the show is cancelled. We've had 10 or 11 years of the Duggars and it's time to say part ways. Continuing with the show, imo, doesn't improve this family -- it just keeps funding and fueling the Duggar and Gothard machine. It empowers JB & Michelle's line of thinking and family values that gets filtered through each child, and especially through the adult children and their spouses who are getting the most media attention because of it. Having the media attention from the show rewards JB's values and principles and I believe it's time to put an end to the show which provides a platform that leads to speaking engagements all over the country for this bunch.

Whether the show goes on or gets cancelled, I think the victims of Josh's molestation will perpetually live in guilt as long as they continue to hitch their wagons to Gothard and the fundamental values of JB & Michelle.

TLC made this announcement yesterday:  "Effective immediately, TLC has pulled all episodes of 19 Kids and Counting currently from the air. We are deeply saddened and troubled by this heartbreaking situation, and our thoughts and prayers are with the family and victims at this difficult time."

 

The presumption seems to be that the show will not continue, although the wording does seem a bit vague about future shows.  It's pretty clear that it's cancelled for now, at least.

[JennyMominFL]

Maybe the Willis family took them down. I think they were the other large family that refused to film with them a few months back. 

[OhioMom]

He didn't go to the police. He went to his State Trooper (not police at all) friend who most likely would help him scam used car buyers with false inspections.

Is that a joking statement, that State Troopers are not police?  Or are they really not police?

[Cherrio]

This theory is making more and more sense to me. Maybe one of them had a heart-to-heart with her MIL? Jill could have been having a bad day, Derick's back at work, Cathy's over at the McMansion helping with Izzy - Jill get the weepies and suddenly everything spills out? Cathy strikes me as the type who would know what to do - and wouldn't be shy about it either. Maybe both the senior Seewalds and the Byrums went to visit Boob & Me-chelle together? OMG - I'd have bought tickets to see the look on Boob's face.

That was my thought at the start of this and I posted my theory.      As someone I respect and is a noted historian he always tells me, we were not there.    But, from common sense we can come up with things that might of happened.

      I do think someone from inside did start this. I do not believe the book story and I do not believe Anna knew.       What makes sense to me is that a lot of new people have infiltrated the family with the 2 new marriages and like you, I do think its very likely either Jill or Jessa did confide in their new in laws/family.

            I firmly believe TLC knew, I firmly believe the crew knew and lots of other family/friends/fundie people knew.

[CherryAmes]

Part of me thinks that Jim Bob only went to the police to save his ass from being charged or called by CPS.

 

For understandable reasons this thread has focused on the victims being part of the Duggar family but this post reminded me that there must be victims, or at least one victim anyway, outside the immediate family circle.  Else why would there have ever needed to be any intervention outside the family?  I doubt parents like the Duggars would have done anything involving the police if they didn't have to.  Wouldn't they have just hushed the whole thing up if the "only" victims were their own daughters?

[kstar821]

Maybe the whistle blower was Marjorie's family?  Maybe Si let them in on some things but couldn't summon up the courage to do it himself.  

[msblossom]

TLC made this announcement yesterday:  "Effective immediately, TLC has pulled all episodes of 19 Kids and Counting currently from the air. We are deeply saddened and troubled by this heartbreaking situation, and our thoughts and prayers are with the family and victims at this difficult time."

 

The presumption seems to be that the show will not continue, although the wording does seem a bit vague about future shows.  It's pretty clear that it's cancelled for now, at least.

I know that it's temporarily cancelled. I was speaking of a permanent cancellation.

[CofCinci]

Is that a joking statement, that State Troopers are not police?  Or are they really not police?

State Troopers are not Police Officers.

Here's a great ELI5 about it: http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/1bjkcv/eli5_the_difference_between_police_sheriff/

Police This is usually a division of City government. They are paid by the city from city taxes and are expected to enforce national, state, and city laws. They tend to only patrol their city, but have "mutual aid" responsibilities with nearby areas. They are called "Police Officer" or "Officer" unless they have a higher rank. Their boss is the "Chief of Police" who is probably hired by the City Council.

 

 

State Trooper This is always a division of State government, but they are sometimes called Rangers, Highway Patrol, or State Police. They are paid from state taxes and their They are charged with enforcing national and state laws. They are often called "Officer" even if that's not technically the right name in their state. Their boss is often a Commissioner who is appointed by the Governor of that state. They patrol highways, state buildings, and tend to focus on rural/remote areas that are under served by other jurisdictions.

Maybe the whistle blower was Marjorie's family?  Maybe Si let them in on some things but couldn't summon up the courage to do it himself.  

I wouldn't be surprised if Josiah and the younger batch of Duggars have no idea the abuse occurred.

Edited May 23, 2015 by CofCinci

[Seashell Lover]

Remember in 2002 Boob was running for senate and he lost blaming it on Sin In The Camp. This is making me think who outsider also knew about what Smuggar did to his family for Boob to blame Smuggar for losing.

[frenchtoast]

While there is a distinction between state troopers and police officers, they are both law enforcement. (And that is my quiet mod way of saying, let's not have an argument over it, please.)  Thanks!

[Cherrio]

There's no way to keep the show on the air without continuing to reward JimBob and Michelle for their cover-up and hypocrisy. It's truly unfortunate that the victims will also be harmed financially.

IF TLC had any decency, they would cancel any further payments to the parents and use the money to set up a trust fund for the victims that their parents can't touch. Not that they wouldn't guilt the money out of the girls anyway.

Besides, TLC is not known for producing honest and accurate reality shows.      They might support the children however.    TLC has one of the most, if not the most powerful law firm on retainer so if monies or support were given, it would be protected.      I have always thought that TLC supports Kate Gosselin and her children.  The main reason I believe this is there is no other way they could continue to live in their current home and maintain the private schools and lifestyle.    The secondary reason is that because of all the damage done to the children and living with an supposedly abusive and unstable mother, TLC supports them as an insurance policy to protect themselves from future fallout.

[OhioMom]

While there is a distinction between state troopers and police officers, they are both law enforcement. (And that is my quiet mod way of saying, let's not have an argument over it, please.)  Thanks!

Oh no! No argument on my part!  I was sincerely asking!  After my insurance mixup, I'm not sure of anything this morning!!!

[Sunnybobs]

If the date lines are believed then quite a lot of people have known and many others suspected since the initial report. Was it the report itself or somewhere else that said JB & M had asked for a Family In Need referral? In which case surely Arkansas CPS would have been involved from that point. And it seems to have been discussed on Internet forums for years - perhaps due to the ages of all the children JB & M had assumed reports had been closed/locked etc which had given them the confidence to continue with all the shows?

[Cherrio]

I can only imagine what is going on in the Duggar House right now. Michelle must be double or triple medicated. Her usual google-eyed look must have morphed into something frightful. I can't imagine what Jana and Jinger are doing with themselves, besides taking care of the little ones while Michelle falls apart and Boob plots his damage control plan. No one probably has the nerve to go out of the house, to get away from it all. Bob probably won't allow it either.

 

Joshie's text of "Heyyyyy, I'm back in town" must get a response of crickets. 

 

I also feel bad for Derrick, the only gainfully employed Duggar. How in the world does that guy hold down a job? Between all the family trips, new baby and dental surgery, now he is coming in to work with his mouth wired shut and the family scandal on his mind and also his coworkers Iphones and computers.

Starbucks withdrawal.       

[SoSueMe]

I don't want to hear from the girls in the sense that they would justify what Josh did and convince us to forgive him "as they have."  I want them to denounce Josh, their parents, and what happened.  I want them to see the light.  I want for Ben, Jessa, Jill and Derick to find new homes so that they're providing for themselves, not relying on Jim Bob and Michelle.  Not saying there's even a remote possibility that any of that could happen, but a girl can dream.  I'm worried about what will happen to the remaining kids now that the fairytale/fiction has drawn to a close.

Maybe after some time has passed and the married girls have the opportunity to get a sense of the outrage (are they even allowed to watch the news or go online?) they may feel validated enough to give themselves some closure (gosh I hate that word)by writing it down and getting it out a la Elizabeth Smart? Or maybe just wishful thinking on my part. They don't owe anyone anything. It would just do my heart good to know that maybe they realize it wasn't their fault.

[frenchtoast]

Oh no! No argument on my part!  I was sincerely asking!  After my insurance mixup, I'm not sure of anything this morning!!!

No worries, OhioMom! One thing I love about PTV is there are so many smart people who share what they know. I'm a little punch drunk right now and wanted to make sure we're all good.

 

So...carry on!

[merylinkid]

Statute of limitations are set differently for each crime.   They are from the date of occurrence or discovery of the crime.   Not when reported, when the crime happened or someone knew or should have known about the crime.   So from the minute Josh touched those girls and the parents knew about it, the SOL began to run.   By the time they even went to the State Trooper, one year of the SOL was gone.  

 

It has been speculated that he would have been charged with 4th degree sexual assault.   This is not the same as what we consider rape, which would be first degree sexual assault.   The lower on the scale from first on down, the lower the statute of limitations.    So 3 years sounds about right for the lowest form of sexual assault.   Assault means any unwanted touching.   You can touch someone's shoulder with your finger and it could be construed as assault.   

 

Wording of statutes also matter.    Yes, sexual assault of a minor might have a longer SOL, but only if committed by an adult.   Josh himself was a minor at the time. A lawyer listserv I am is debating the wording of the Arkansas statute at this moment,     It seems even 4th degree might not apply because it specifically refers to adults touching a child.   3rd degree might have been better, but even then there has to be more than 3 years ago difference in the kids.    

 

They might not have been able to fit what he did into the definition of a crime even if the SOL had not run.   Still makes it wrong, but sometimes the law just does not fit the sitution and it needs to be handled outside the legal system.   Like real counseling, not Gothard shaming culture.

[CofCinci]

I wonder what our responses would have been if Jim Bob had actually entered his son into an evidence-based treatment with a licensed mental health professional.

[Fuzzysox]

Remember in 2002 Boob was running for senate and he lost blaming it on Sin In The Camp. This is making me think who outsider also knew about what Smuggar did to his family for Boob to blame Smuggar for losing.

The sin in the camp story brought down the almost courtship of one of Holt's daughters to Josh if I'm not mistaken. Makes sense now why the Holts ran screaming from the assholes that are Boob and MeChelle-----unbelievability inept parents from hell.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[Chai]

As a victim of childhood sexual molestation, it saddens me to read all the FB comments supporting the Duggars. Not to mention that the only thing required is forgiveness & all is ok. Ugh.

 

My parents also covered up mine & at 42, it still bothers me.

I'm so sorry for what you went through. No one should have to.

[jschoolgirl]

If the date lines are believed then quite a lot of people have known and many others suspected since the initial report. Was it the report itself or somewhere else that said JB & M had asked for a Family In Need referral? In which case surely Arkansas CPS would have been involved from that point. And it seems to have been discussed on Internet forums for years - perhaps due to the ages of all the children JB & M had assumed reports had been closed/locked etc which had given them the confidence to continue with all the shows?

There was considerable TWoP discussion of Josh being inappropriate with a girl, mentioning touching and blankets. But we *never* dreamed his own family were the girls in question.

[NextIteration]

Whether the show goes on or gets cancelled, I think the victims of Josh's molestation will perpetually live in guilt as long as they continue to hitch their wagons to Gothard and the fundamental values of JB & Michelle.

 

Speaking from experience, Gothard is not needed to experience shame forever from being sexually abused as a child.

[Saylii]

I wouldn't be surprised if Josiah and the younger batch of Duggars have no idea the abuse occurred.

Josiah would. He's older then Joyanna so he would have been around for the family meetings they had. It's also speculated that he's a witness in the report. It's probably iffy how much Jeremiah on down remembers, but the middle children lived with the consequences the most.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Saylii

[Bella]

I have a Washington Post app on my Kindle and an editorial about the Duggars making the point you make was the top post this morning.  One portion of the article:

 

"It would never have occurred to the Duggars (or perhaps even TLC) that all along they were making a TV show about a subculture, but that's exactly what they were doing.  For all the blushing and godly euphemisms around the subject of sex, "19 Kids and Counting" is very much a show about outre behaviors that go against the modern mainstream.  So now is not the time to cancel it.  Now is the time for TLC to double down and have the courage to present America, at last, with a truly unscripted show about a family enduring a crisis largely of its own making.  Life is not what it quite seems at the Duggar compound -- but who ever watched that show and sincerely thought it was always that perfect?  Who would honestly believe that you can raise 19 human beings to all think and act according to their parents' beliefs?  No family is immune to suffering; no family is without secrets.  Cancellation would erase the Duggars from popular culture just at the moment that they've become more real."  It goes on to talk about how the show has mostly ignore the fact that Josh had joined an organization that virulently opposes gay rights and how the show instead was "transfixed by the older girls' giggly wedding-planning and the logistics of wholesome family outings."

 

Personally, I wish the show was staying on the air.  Not only for the reasons cited in the Washington Post article, but also because I think now would be the best time for outsiders (the crew) to be in the house.  I worry that the older girls will be blamed, or will blame themselves.  Plus, selfishly, I'll miss seeing the kids.  

 

Just as an FYI, the author of the WashPost article is their TV critic. He's the friend of a very smart friend of mine, and she has nothing but good things to say about him. 

 

However, I think there's a lot of wishful thinking in his article. Seriously, would JimBob ever allow an honest depiction of that family? As greedy as that bigoted, narcissistic moron is, I can't imagine he would do that for any amount of money. Nor do I believe that TLC is capable of shifting gears to producing a straight documentary. Anything that would be produced would end up putting the parents in a positive light ("we made mistakes and we learned, good for us!"), and that is completely unacceptable.

 

I expect a tell-all book from one of the Duggars, possibly even one of the victims, though it will likely be years from now. Out of 19 kids, at least one will break ranks, reject their upbringing, and expose the b.s.

[direpup]

Excerpt from story linked below:

 

Connected industry sources tell TMZ, TLC is considering a number of options, weighing the pros and cons. One is to cancel the show outright, the other is to just go full steam ahead, but there is real talk about continuing without Josh. 

 

Our sources say there's a strong sense axing Josh would not materially hurt the show. We're told TLC has done research and it shows the daughters have become the driving force. The weddings of Jill and Jessa were ratings successes, as was the birth of Jill's baby.

 

 

http://www.tmz.com/2015/05/23/19-kids-and-counting-josh-duggar-molestation-scandal-tlc-jill-jessa/

[Kcat1971]

Josiah would. He's older then Joyanna so he would have been around for the family meetings they had. It's also speculated that he's a witness in the report. It's probably iffy how much Jeremiah on down remembers, but the middle children lived with the consequences the most.

 

Narrative #14 in the police report seems to summarize an interview with a younger boy based on the reference to male genitals as a "pee-pee holder".  In December 2006 when the interviews were conducted Joseph was almost 12, Josiah was 10, Jedidiah & Jeremiah were 8.

[Fuzzysox]

I wonder if an of the Duggars will start their "church tour" staring tomm. to ask people for forgiveness? I can so see them doing it because it's their belief that they can pray anything away as a good PR move. (in their heads not ours)

[Fuzzysox]

Excerpt from story linked below:

 

Connected industry sources tell TMZ, TLC is considering a number of options, weighing the pros and cons. One is to cancel the show outright, the other is to just go full steam ahead, but there is real talk about continuing without Josh. 

 

Our sources say there's a strong sense axing Josh would not materially hurt the show. We're told TLC has done research and it shows the daughters have become the driving force. The weddings of Jill and Jessa were ratings successes, as was the birth of Jill's baby.

 

 

http://www.tmz.com/2015/05/23/19-kids-and-counting-josh-duggar-molestation-scandal-tlc-jill-jessa/

IDK if the girls having a show is a good thing right about now. I know that nothing they did warrants them having to suffer because the money train has been cut off but then need time to heal with real professionals that can help them understand what they experienced. They still have Boob and Mechelle around controlling them......they will never or could never be themselves with them hanging around.

 

Viewers such as everyone on this board as well as the old TWOP have always questioned the way Boob and Mechelle parented and their unwavering loyalty to Gothard. Those are things we can't let go. We would watch and just be in disgust. Once again JMHO

Edited May 23, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[Misslindsey]

 

I don't really expect to hear from the girls, do you? They don't owe anybody any explanations, and I'd think speaking about it publically would be the last thing they'd want to do right now, or possibly ever.

I concur. I really doubt they would speak out against their family regardless. If they did speak out, then I would expect them to do their talking points about praying to God and forgiving Josh, whether they have or haven't. I guess what I am trying to say albeit poorly, is that I do not expect them to show any animosity in public or in front of Jim Bob and Michelle. Maybe in private, with the other girls, or with their spouses (Jill and Jessa) possibly, but I expect them at least in public and to the media to portray everything as perfectly fine, even when it probably is not.

 

The same goes with Anna with whether she knew or not and how much she actually knew. I never expected her to say she did not support her husband, leave, or even get a divorce. Behind closed doors maybe she is angry and withdrawing from Josh emotionally, but in public I do not expect her to be anything but the good, supportive wife trotting out a canned statement.

 

I would love nothing more for Anna and the girls (hell, the rest of the Duggar kids as well) to get out of dodge and distance themselves from their families beliefs. I just think it is extremely unlikely, but I hope they prove me wrong.

[dillpickles]

I wonder if an of the Duggars will start their "church tour" staring tomm. to ask people for forgiveness? I can so see them doing it because it's their belief that they can pray anything away as a good PR move. (in their heads not ours)

Only forgiveness that needs to happy is Josh on his knees, begging his siblings to forgive him. Jim Bob and MEEchelle too. Bonus points if one of them tells them to hit the road.

[ZoloftBlob]

18 minutes ago

I wonder what our responses would have been if Jim Bob had actually entered his son into an evidence-based treatment with a licensed mental health professional

 

I know my first question would be "how did they keep that off the show" because that sort of thing comes up when people are screened for shows. My second question would be "how did Jimbob afford decent therepy for Josh at a time in their lives where he wasn't a wealthy man?" Remember - they were living in the tiny house when this happened.

 

I also don't see TLC continuing the show as a harder, edgier, now we're dealing with sex abuse show, for a number of reasons. I genuinely don't think Jimbob and Michelle would be willing to have their *failures* in parenting paraded. I personally think  far too many people would consider it exploitive beyond belief to trot out the sex abuser's victims to have them talk about it - whether they play the "we forgive him" game or not, it can't be escaped that we'd be watching abuse victims being paid to expose themselves. Finally, I just don't think TLC has the interest or the chops to produce something that isn't fluffy.

 

It sucks royally for the younger kids, but I think the best thing that could happen is Mama and Papa Duggar needing to figure out how to support their gigantic family without TLC support.

[msblossom]

Speaking from experience, Gothard is not needed to experience shame forever from being sexually abused as a child.

I'm very sorry for the abuse you experienced and the shame you've suffered. I want to be sensitive to your experience and others who were similarly abused and say that my point was that being attached to the sick belief system of the Duggars only further perpetuates the shame and guilt bc in their world those girls did something to stir up those sexual feelings in Josh which caused him molest his sisters, as well as their belief that the violation causes spiritual growth if they're big enough to accept it and grow from it instead of looking at it as something that they were violated by.

[PinkSprinkles]

I can't believe JB&M would allow Josh to stay at their home while their daughters were still living there after they found out about his behavior. They could have sent him to live with another relative with a plethora of excuses as to why he was there. They failed to protect their children or get them help after the fact. How can you accept a mother of the year award with a straight face after something like that?

 

I also find it ironic how they talk about how you can't trust people outside their worldwide, but the person who ended up harming them the most was a family member (like it tends to be if you look at the statistics). 

 

I'll wrap up my thoughts by saying, if any of the victims ever reads here, that you did NOTHING wrong. There is NOTHING you could have done to deserve this or bring it on yourself. You were solely affected by the selfish, disgusting, and calculated acts of another person. As a fellow Christian, I can say with surety that God loves you and you are blameless. I know that He has counted every single tear you have shed over this and justice will be had for each one. Stay strong and get all the help YOU need regardless of what your family or society has to say. 

[Kcat1971]

Just as an FYI, the author of the WashPost article is their TV critic. He's the friend of a very smart friend of mine, and she has nothing but good things to say about him. 

 

However, I think there's a lot of wishful thinking in his article. Seriously, would JimBob ever allow an honest depiction of that family? As greedy as that bigoted, narcissistic moron is, I can't imagine he would do that for any amount of money. Nor do I believe that TLC is capable of shifting gears to producing a straight documentary. Anything that would be produced would end up putting the parents in a positive light ("we made mistakes and we learned, good for us!"), and that is completely unacceptable.

 

I expect a tell-all book from one of the Duggars, possibly even one of the victims, though it will likely be years from now. Out of 19 kids, at least one will break ranks, reject their upbringing, and expose the b.s.

 

I agree!  I read that editorial this morning and had the exact same "wishful thinking" response.  I read it and thought yes! this is the show I'd like to see and then I thought- no way it will happen.

 

I also expect a tell-all book eventually.  I'd like it if one or more of the older girls is ready to break away from the cult/family, and I hope the book would help her own healing & help others. I'd be perfectly happily with her making enough money to support herself, get an education and move on with her life.  I would absolutely buy that book.  

 

As far as the TV show goes, I've always been a sporadic watcher.  I'd be more likely to watch a spin-off of just the older girls, making their own way in life.  What its like leaving a large family and adjusting to life on their own, hopefully breaking away from their families ideology.  I was hoping we were going to get that from Ben & Jessa but her getting pregnant right away I gave up that dream.  Maybe its still possible.  Maybe we can get a Jinger & Joy-Anna spin off.  Moving out, going to college, getting an apartment & jobs.  They don't have to cover what happened 12 years ago at all unless the girls want to.

[Swedee]

This story could have been my own (except for the number of siblings and the extreme religious beliefs) My older brother began molesting me when I was 8. I told my mother, who blamed me and protected him. She didn't tell anyone, including my father. After years of therapy, I confronted my parents and asked how they could have allowed this type of abuse to occur between their children. My mother's response was that if she would have sought help it would have "ruined my brother's life". She really believed it was my fault, not his.

I'm so sad for the victims in this case. The double betrayal of an older sibling and the parents is tough,to deal with. I don't know where I would be if I hadn't been able to get professional help. Life in the TTH right now must be hell on earth for those young women. If you are repeatedly told it is your fault, you believe it. I'm sure they are being blamed for the whole house of cards crashing down.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Swedee

[alt0233]

At first I thought that TLC probably knew, or at least suspected, that this or something similar had gone on. But now I'm not so sure - I'd think if they would have known, they'd have gotten a bunch of distance between them and the family - not be taking about how keeping Josh around wouldn't materially hurt the show.

My current theory is that they had an idea that something happened, but not within the family and not to the extent that happened. Maybe they thought what a lot of us thought before the news reports came out - Josh consentually made out with/felt up a girl he liked, or something like that. For what it's worth, my guess is that Anna didn't know the details before this broke and had jumped to a similar conclusion.

[Kcat1971]

I'll wrap up my thoughts by saying, if any of the victims ever reads here, that you did NOTHING wrong. There is NOTHING you could have done to deserve this or bring it on yourself. You were solely affected by the selfish, disgusting, and calculated acts of another person. As a fellow Christian, I can say with surety that God loves you and you are blameless. I know that He has counted every single tear you have shed over this and justice will be had for each one. Stay strong and get all the help YOU need regardless of what your family or society has to say. 

 

I wish there was a way to get this message to the girls.  I know people have posted similar thoughts on their facebook & instagram accounts.  I really hope they read those.

[doodlebug]

Part of me thinks that Jim Bob only went to the police to save his ass from being charged or called by CPS

He only went to the police 3 years later, after Oprah's people notified authorities.  He was called to come in to talk, as were the girls and Michelle.  Had he not voluntarily talked to the cops, he could've been hauled into court and the kids put into foster care.  However, when push came to shove, he refused to allow Josh to talk to the police and threatened to lawyer up.  The only reason the police didn't pursue this was because each and every one of the victims claimed it was a one time thing and that every single incident was more than 3 years in the past.  Outside the statute of limitations, in other words.  There is no way those girls weren't coached and instructed as to what to say, its just too convenient. 

 

As far as Jim Bob going to the 'police' 3 years earlier when he and the church elders went to the highway patrol friend, nope, I don't think that is what happened at all. I think he went to the elders perhaps due to his religious beliefs but also because he needed to get advice to protect his son (daughters be damned), avoid prosecution and avoid ugly publicity which could've derailed his embryonic career as fund celeb and nascent TV star.  I think he or the elders picked the cop because 1) they were sure he WOULDN'T file a report- otherwise, why not just go down to the police station, call Children's Services, find a lawyer?.  JB and his buddies wanted to keep it out of the justice system and chose a law enforcement officer that they knew would do this, giving them plausible deniability if it ever came to light. After all, they TOLD a cop, it wasn't their fault he never followed up.  2) they no doubt picked his brain and probably a couple of fundie lawyers about the legalities and made their plan to design their own system of 'justice' for Josh and the girls that essentially let Josh off with a lecture and a couple months of manual labor and made it clear to the girls that it was all on them and they'd better keep their yaps shut and carry on.

 

BTW, many years ago, a situation like this happened in my family.  A teen relative confided in a friend that her father had molested her for years.  Her friend told her mother who called the authorities.  The girl's father was arrested, CPS involved and the wheels were turning.  The girl, oldest of 6 kids, was told by her mother in no uncertain terms that their entire family was being ruined and it was her fault.  Her father was going to jail, they were going to be bankrupted and homeless and she and her siblings were going to end up split up in foster care or worse.  She was about 15 at the time, her father was showing interest in her younger sisters, can you imagine being in that position?  She recanted and refused to cooperate, feeling she had no choice, her family was at stake.  Oh, and her mother knew about the molestation for years prior to that and had done NOTHING.  The authorities knew what had probably happened but what could they do?

Edited May 23, 2015 by doodlebug

[NextIteration]

The double betrayal of an older sibling and the parents is tough,to deal with. I don't know where I would be if I hadn't been able to get professions help.

 

Massive hugs.  There aren't any measuring sticks when it comes to this sort of betrayal for what is "worse" or more "horrible".  It's all fucked up and horrific.

 

I have only seen this show maybe three times total and two of them were probably the early "specials".

 

It's beyond my realm of understanding how TLC can do anything but completely cancel this show and cover their asses as best they can, otherwise they are co-conspirators in child abuse and neglect.  This should have been clear before - but now that this has broken wide, I can't comprehend CPS or whatever it is called in Arkansas not getting involved at this point, isn't at least one of the victims still a minor?  

Edited May 23, 2015 by NextIteration

[parisprincess]

Apparently Jim Bob claims that the visit to the trooper was "official" and that the trooper was the one who decided not to pursue it. Given the rest of Jim Bob's actions, I'm not sure I believe a word of this, but even assuming it to be true he and Michelle never followed up to file an official report.

 

After all the years of watching the Duggars and listening to JB and Michelle's lies, I don't believe anything either of them say.  Too bad their fanatical religious beliefs don't include telling the truth. 

 

Ben and Derrick and their families would have known Jessa and Jill were molested. Before they were have agreed to the courtship, the families would have sat down and had the courters confess their sins. Jessa and Jill would not have named names because it's their sins to confess, no one else's. The new families also wouldn't have been told about extent of the abuse.

 

I don't believe for one second that these parents got together and made the kids confess their sins.  If that happened and the boys' (Derrick and Ben) families decided that a courtship would not take place because of the abuse, then there are two other families that know the Duggars' deep, dark secret.  No way that's going to happen.  I also don't believe Josh and Anna courted for two years before their engagement, so Anna is lying about when she knew about Josh's past. 

[ChicksDigScars]

I feel the same as the Washington Post columnist. I'd LOVE to see the Duggars deal HONESTLY with this. Not white washed-Jim Bob approved editing, Honestly, I'd love to see a show without Jim Bob OR Michelle at all. Josh, too, but that pretty much goes without saying at this point.  And will also never happen unless the kids break free from JB completely and live on their own.

 

Our sources say there's a strong sense axing Josh would not materially hurt the show. We're told TLC has done research and it shows the daughters have become the driving force. The weddings of Jill and Jessa were ratings successes, as was the birth of Jill's baby.

 

Hah. Suck on that, Duggars. Your show's success and driving force has been your DAUGHTERS.  The women. The males in your family are NOT the center of the universe. Suck it, 

 

 

I also feel bad for Derrick, the only gainfully employed Duggar. How in the world does that guy hold down a job? Between all the family trips, new baby and dental surgery, now he is coming in to work with his mouth wired shut and the family scandal on his mind and also his coworkers Iphones and computers.

 

Derick has missed out on several Duggar outings, and I can only assume that he realizes that his job is important and the TLC gravy train wasn't going to last forever. Jill has even been missed from several shows since her marriage. Unlike Jessa and Ben, who is employed by Jim Bob and more dependent on him, so they're in ALL the shows. 

 

JD is employed outside of Jim Bob Inc. He also owns his own home, He should be fine. Joseph actually LIVES with the Bates family while he attends Clown College?

 

Suddenly I wonder about JD. Not in a bad way, but giving him the benefit of some doubt. Is his anti-social, awkward personality because he was brow beaten and falsely accused growing up? Because Josh did this horrible thing that was probably blamed on hormones and his defrauding sisters parading around in prairie dresses, JD must experience the same feelings, too? Was he accused and questioned into submission by his parents? Accused of lying when he denied it? And now he's uncomfortable around women. Afraid to approach them.  Jana and John David are the next kids down from Josh. They probably went through the worst as the next in line after the oldest child, who did the unthinkable. 

 

In recent photos of Derick, I've noticed that his face is distorted. Reminds me of a friend I had that had extensive adult orthodontia and went through having her jaw broken (on purpose) and having it rewired shut to heal, resulting in massive swelling and altering of her facial features. Is this what has happened to Derick? If that's the case, what a time to not be able to speak and express your frustration and rage. In my little fantasy world, I dream that Derick (and perhaps Ben) found out about all this fairly recently and flew into a blind rage and told Joshie that if he EVER came near their wives or children, that they'd kick his bloated, moon pie, hypocritical face in. Jill seemed soooo nervous and uncomfortable in the question and answer show, as if she was there under protest.  

Edited May 23, 2015 by ChicksDigScars

[Oldernowiser]

I wonder what our responses would have been if Jim Bob had actually entered his son into an evidence-based treatment with a licensed mental health professional.

My primary issue would have remained...their really stunning levels of hypocrisy and sanctimony. They have actively campaigned against gay rights in part by claiming that gays are potential child abusers. They have held themselves out as the perfect Christian family with exemplary moral standards and made a lot of money doing so. Michelle gets awarded "mother of the year" and basks in the adulation.

Meanwhile, back in reality world...not so much.

Now if as a result of this crisis they had chosen not to go famewhore and instead had focused their attentions on privately healing their family and getting help for everyone, not just Josh...that would be a different scenario.

[Chai]

This whole thing is despicable. I want TLC to answer me this: YOU promoted this family. How will YOU help all those victims?

[MarysWetBar]

No worries, OhioMom! One thing I love about PTV is there are so many smart people who share what they know. I'm a little punch drunk right now and wanted to make sure we're all good.

So...carry on!

OMG.You are officially my favourite mod in the history of all mods EVER

[HumblePi]

Part of me thinks that Jim Bob only went to the police to save his ass from being charged or called by CPS.  

Jim Bob (referred to in the report as “James”) first learned of Josh’s behavior in March 2002, when one victim approached Jim Bob and said that Josh touched her breasts and genitals while she slept.

Jim Bob appears not to have acted on the accusation. In July 2002, Josh, then 14 years old, admitted to the behavior to his father, prompting Jim Bob to “discipline” Josh but not report the incident to the authorities.

 

In July 2003, his father and church elders took him to a state trooper to confess what he’d done. The trooper, Cpl. Hutchins, gave Josh a “very stern talk” but did not charge him with any crimes.

InTouch reports that Hutchins was later arrested on child pornography charges and is currently serving 56 years in prison.

 

In December 2006, Springdale police interviewed the Duggars about Josh’s behavior. Jim Bob would not produce Josh for questioning—per InTouch, “when police asked Jim Bob to bring Josh in for an interview in 2006, he attempted to hire a lawyer and refused to produce his son for questioning. At least two lawyers refused to take his case.”

 

Jim Bob Duggar could have possibly been charged for obstruction of justice, but he wasn't.  This might possibly be the subject for Oprah's show in ten years.

 

The Duggar Family

Edited May 23, 2015 by HumblePi

[kassygreene]

Excerpt from story linked below:

 

Connected industry sources tell TMZ, TLC is considering a number of options, weighing the pros and cons. One is to cancel the show outright, the other is to just go full steam ahead, but there is real talk about continuing without Josh. 

 

Our sources say there's a strong sense axing Josh would not materially hurt the show. We're told TLC has done research and it shows the daughters have become the driving force. The weddings of Jill and Jessa were ratings successes, as was the birth of Jill's baby.

 

 

http://www.tmz.com/2015/05/23/19-kids-and-counting-josh-duggar-molestation-scandal-tlc-jill-jessa/

 

Airbrushing Josh out?  With or without some inevitably lame explanation?  

At first I thought that TLC probably knew, or at least suspected, that this or something similar had gone on. But now I'm not so sure - I'd think if they would have known, they'd have gotten a bunch of distance between them and the family - not be taking about how keeping Josh around wouldn't materially hurt the show.

My current theory is that they had an idea that something happened, but not within the family and not to the extent that happened. Maybe they thought what a lot of us thought before the news reports came out - Josh consentually made out with/felt up a girl he liked, or something like that. For what it's worth, my guess is that Anna didn't know the details before this broke and had jumped to a similar conclusion.

TLC has a 10+ year investment in this show, along with whatever is in the can for the next season.  They have been carefully not addressing the more toxic parts of the Duggar life for that entire time - the political endorsements, the political campaigning, the working for a documented hate group, the misogyny, the ludicrous home "schooling", the religious "models" (Pearl, Gothard, Vision Forum, etc.) ...  Having held their noses so long that they would need rhinoplasty to restore the original shape, they possibly do not fully appreciate how entangled this is.  And even if they go ahead with the show, the unmarried girls are still under their parents' control, the unmarried boys (excepting John David and possibly Josiah) are still under their parents' control...  I'm pretty sure that all monies are legally tied up at Jim-Bob's discretion.  I'm equally sure that there probably isn't as much as is speculated, that his existing businesses aren't all that robust, that quite a few people are thinking about cutting any business connection...  Hope those warehouses really are crammed full of love offerings, as they are going to need them.

[natyxg]

Narrative #14 in the police report seems to summarize an interview with a younger boy based on the reference to male genitals as a "pee-pee holder".  In December 2006 when the interviews were conducted Joseph was almost 12, Josiah was 10, Jedidiah & Jeremiah were 8.

 

No. It said that to the child Pee-pee holder was vagina.

 

Regarding the show continuing with the focus on the older girls.... maybe they wouldn't want to. If they are as brainwashed into the cult as they supposedly are, all modest and whatever, maybe they wouldn't want to continuing knowing that whoever is watching would know what happened. 

 

But then again, money is important to this family, maybe it would trump shame.

[BitterApple]

Is that a joking statement, that State Troopers are not police? Or are they really not police?

I think the poster meant to say that JimBob didn't initially bring Josh in to a precinct to formally report the incident to the police. He contacted a friend in an informal, off-the-record manner and that friend just happened to be a State Trooper. I don't think she meant to imply Staties weren't real cops:)

Edited May 23, 2015 by BitterApple

[natyxg]

I think the poster meant to say that JimBob didn't initially bring Josh in to a precinct to formally report the incident to the police. He contacted a friend in an informal, off-the-record manner and that friend just happened to be a State Trooper. I don't think she meant to imply Staties weren't real cops:)

 

The impression that I got was that sending Josh to do labor and the talk with the State trooper were supposed to scare Josh straight. I would imagine that sadly many families would worry about their reputation if something like this came out, and by this time JB had even been in politics. So I image they would want to avoid official proceedings that could leave a record or become a scandal in their community. So they tried to deal with it within the family, so to speak.

 

This is my impression, of course. I could be wrong.