Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[BitterApple]

I think the show will continue minus Josh and Anna. There's a huge media firestorm right now, but that will die down as non-viewers move on to the Holiday weekend and other news. In other words, the outrage won't last. The Duggars are C-list celebrities, not candidates running for the White House. If they can ride the storm they should be okay as far as TLC goes. If the network pulls the plug, I'll stand corrected.

[andromeda331]

It's BS. They don't get to say "no one is perfect" when they support an organization that supported things like Uganda's "kill the gays" bill. They think what they see as imperfections are punishable by death. Yet when someone does what Josh Duggar did, suddenly it's time for "judge not lest ye be judged."

 

 

Your right. I was shocked by how many people commenting to defend Josh on the other news stations. You would have thought he was caught jaywalking instead of molesting his sisters.

[Saylii]

Josh is still innocent of any crimes in the legal spectrum. Unless the FRC had a disclosure clause he did not meet when he was hired, they would have no legal grounds to fire him. Josh absolutely held the power in a severance negotiation.

[Guest]

I expect TLC will cancel the series today. What does everyone else think?

I say no way. My guess is that TLC will take the opportunity to film "A Very Special Episode" where Boob and Michelle forgive Josh and then do a lot of Lord-talk and claim it's a family matter that some devil-loving heathen dredged up to sully their good names. And people will buy it because they are believers and not thinkers.

The fact that all of these pieces of shit spend their time actively campaigning against LGBT people and their "sinful" "lifestyles" burns me to no end. If they want forgiveness from people maybe they should start asking for it themselves from the victims who live in their own home.

[bluebonnet]

I think the show will continue minus Josh and Anna. There's a huge media firestorm right now, but that will die down as non-viewers move on to the Holiday weekend and other news. In other words, the outrage won't last. The Duggars are C-list celebrities, not candidates running for the White House. If they can ride the storm they should be okay as far as TLC goes. If the network pulls the plug, I'll stand corrected.

Maybe not candidates running for the white house, but they are heavily involved with candidates who are running for the white house.  I don't know what level celebrities they technically are.  I just know that I can't walk anywhere without seeing their faces plastered all over magazine covers.  I can't read my daily news without some sort of article about another one of them doing the totally unique thing of getting married and having a baby.  To me, it's a huge huge deal that a family failed to report abuse, that a network ignored these allegations of abuse, and that they are nowacting as though it was a blessing because it brought them closer to god.  They will lose momentum with the weekend, but that would have been the case whether it is a holiday or not.  It's hard to imagine that the greater public will stand for this sort of thing.  

[sadiegirl1999]

No, I wouldn't have any trouble believing Boob had been involved either. And that is purely because of his frequently-inappropriate comments/behavior. Before yesterday's news I would have thought of Boob first if anyone had mentioned the possibility of abuse in their household.

 

 

OK, I have admittedly only caught snippets here and there of this show...maybe 1 hour total when you put it all together.

 

Do Michelle and JB REALLY dry hump each other in front of the kids?

[fliptopbox]

As of right now the show has not been pulled from TLC. On my DirecTV guide it says they are still showing reruns throughout the day. Even though TLC should cancel this show and make the Duggars disappear I kind of doubt they will, since they are still airing the old episodes. If they were serious about dropping them they'd have found something else to air, even if it was some super old show just for filler's sake. From now on there will probably just be a lot more heavy handed with the editing, and possibly the exclusion of Josh and Anna's family.

[ghoulina]

I am appalled and disgusted by Josh's behavior towards his young sisters. But I might be even more appalled and disgusted by his parents. First of all, while 14 is definitely old enough to know better and this doesn't take any responsibility away from him, JB and Michelle created this environment, IMO. Those children are so sexually repressed. The women are taught that it's their fault if a man even looks at them funny, and the boys have to hurry up and avert their damn eyes if a woman in a short skirt walks by, because God knows they will go right to hell for admiring her legs. And that's just the stuff we see on TV. I'm sure they're lectured about it even more at home, taught that masturbating is evil as well. So here we have a 14-year-old, in the throws of puberty, who's taught that his feelings are wrong and shameful - but then you have mom and dad dry humping each other and "hey hey hey"ing every five minutes. It's seriously fucked up. 

 

I'm a victim of family sex abuse myself (and I have to say, it physically kills me to see how many of us there are on here. Hugs to you all!), so I don't say any of this lightly. My heart goes out to those girls, having to live with their abuser for years afterward. My abuser was a step-brother and while he still came for visitation after, he never stayed overnight in our home again. I just cannot even imagine what those girls have had to do in order to cope, because Lord knows they never received proper counseling or were ever meant to feel they had someone 100% in their corner. So yea, not only am I disgusted by JB and Michelle for fucking their kids up in the head in the first place, but how they handled the aftermath is appalling.

 

Whoever it was upthread that mentioned them going on to birth more "victims" was dead on right. They had 4 more little girls after that! And never mind the gender. You've got a major problem in your family, so instead of buckling down and dealing with it, you just churn out some more, spreading yourself even thinner. 

 

I really hope TLC pulls this show for good. It's not enough to cut Josh loose. Ma and Pa should suffer as well. And those poor girls should be given some peace for once. 

[bluebonnet]

Omg, so this is what is on Josh and Anna's website:

 

 

 

Josh: I was raised in a Christian home. As a young man, I was taught to wait for God’s best in my life partner. But as time went along and I grew older it was harder to keep my heart only for the one that God had for my life partner.
Anna: Like Joshua I was raised in a Christian home, and my parents encouraged me to save my whole heart & purity for the one that God had for me. As a young girl, my parents told me that it was normal to have desires & thoughts, but that it was my responsibility to commit my future to the Lord and trust God to lead me in His timing.
Josh: As I grew older, I began to realize that there were two different kinds of people in this world – men & women. My parents shared with me a story of a young girl who asked her father a question about ‘that’ subject. Her father replied by handing her his suitcase and asking her to carry it. As the little girl tried to pick up the suitcase she quickly said, ‘I’m not big enough to carry it, its too heavy for me!’ Her father had illustrated his point. He then told his daughter, ‘Some things are too heavy for you to carry right now, but when you are older you will be able to handle them.’ It was that father’s hope, and my parent’s desire that inspired them to train their children to guard their hearts and keep them pure – knowing that the day would come when they would be able to carry that ‘suitcase.’
Anna: When I was thirteen I first heard about the Duggar family, through mutual friends. It was Christmas Day, and I read an article about the Duggars that a friend had sent to us. The Duggars had thirteen children at the time, and I thought it would be neat to meet them one day!
Josh:  That Christmas came and went in 2001. My father was serving as State Representative in our area and he was just beginning his campaign statewide for U.S. Senate.  Although he lost the election, God used it through a series of events to catch the eye of the Discovery Health Channel. In 2004 our first documentary was aired.
Anna: Just after the Duggars first show aired on the Discovery Health Channel, some friends of ours sent us a copy of ’14 Children & Pregnant Again!’ As my family watched the video, I noticed how Joshua, then age sixteen, shared the importance of guarding his heart and waiting for someone who would really love him and wasn’t going to just get carried away with their emotions. I was so excited to see another family who was brought up so similar to the way our parents were training us, but never would I have dreamed what God had in store!
Josh: As I became a teenage young man I was constantly tempted to have lots of wrong thoughts, and often battled to keep my heart right. One of the greatest things that helped me in my struggles was my parent’s commitment to accountability. They were faithful to talk with each one of their children – if we were willing to share honestly & openly with them – to maintain a clear conscience. I learned quickly that great freedom can be achieved by accountability, and great accountability requires humility & openness. I often had failures in my early teenage years, but found I had a clear conscience only when I was willing to confess my thoughts and temptations quickly to God & my parents. (1 John 1:9..........

Anna: I was surprised a few weeks later when my Dad announced to our family that we would be traveling to Arkansas to spend a few days with the Duggars!  The first night at the Duggar’s home during Bible time, Joshua shared his testimony.  was encouraged to see that there really was a young man out there who was accountable to his parents and was striving to keep his heart pure.

I didn't doubt that Anna knew but this seems to all but confirm it.  

Edited May 22, 2015 by bluebonnet

[EarlGreyTea]

 

It shows up in their rabid anti-choice stance where they have no compassion for the situations a woman might encounter (a life situation, or a health problem for mother or fetus), that might lead a woman to choose to terminate a pregnancy, but make a huge public stink about their pro-life stance. They show no compassion for members of the LBGT community and, while I agree with the sentiment of the people who have made the analogy here that Josh will now understand what they feel, I have to disagree. LBGT people are regular people, and our fellow citizens, who are seeking to be treated the same as everyone else. Josh engaged in immoral, probably criminal behavior. There really is no analogy.

 

I apologize for drawing the analogy. It was wrong of me.

Edited May 22, 2015 by EarlGreyTea

[GEML]

Josh almost certainly received a severance. And that severance would have included insurance and full pay/benefits for at least three to six months. These are rumors that were around for years. The FRC would have known about them the same as we all did. And again, this is DC. This is a city kind of used to ugliness.

And I ultimately blame the Gothard cult. It actually sounds as if Jim Bob and Michelle tried to look into real counseling for Josh and the Elders discouraged it. While IBLP isn't a church per se, everyone in it functions under another's "umbrella of authority." Once the Elders had spoken, Jim Bob and Michelle were left with the choice of staying in their community under their "authority" or leaving and helping their children. Naturally we wish the had made the other choice, but Fundies from EVERY closed society/religion almost never do.

And it might also explain why the Bates family got a new house.

Ugly, huh?

[GEML]

I don't care how much money or fame someone has, the law is still the law and should protect people.

[SunnyBeBe]

While I don't condone Josh's conduct, I think I view it as something that was created out of a life of deprivation, dictatorship and mind control.  His 14 year-old mind and body were likely not functioning as an average teen might. He had no healthy role models and limited normal social interaction.  And even if he had gone before a juvenile court judge, he would likely have received therapy and supervision, then had his record expunged when he was 18.  Too bad that didn't happen.  Instead, he continued to live under the reign of his uninformed parents, who did not get him professional help.  So, I"m not surprised he acted out again.

 

And what's so sad is that the parents seemingly learned nothing from all of it, except how to side hug.   

 

Edited to say:  I've read conflicting reports on whether Josh and the girls received professional therapy as a result of the incidents.  If they did, please disregard my comment on their failure to do that.

Edited May 22, 2015 by SunnyBeBe

[Bella]

I think the show will continue minus Josh and Anna. There's a huge media firestorm right now, but that will die down as non-viewers move on to the Holiday weekend and other news. In other words, the outrage won't last. The Duggars are C-list celebrities, not candidates running for the White House. If they can ride the storm they should be okay as far as TLC goes. If the network pulls the plug, I'll stand corrected.

 

I'm kind of betwixt and between on this. I absolutely think they should pull the show, and I believe there is a compelling reason to do so. I'm not sure this will die down so much as lose heat. If I were betting, I'd say that TLC will hold the show back next fall just to see if other shows can fill the gap. I expect to see lots and lots of promos over the summer for non-Duggar shows. Then TLC will follow the money. If they can make a plausible business case for holding back the show for, say, a mid-season replacement or a series of specials or even nothing, I think that's what they'll do.

 

Josh is over, however. They don't dare bring him back. And that has to be explained away somehow, which won't be easy.

 

I also expect the media to go digging for additional Duggar scandals, and to turn any grain of sand they find into as big a mountain as they can. If Duggars = scandal, it's over, no matter what.

 

This isn't going to be pretty.

 

And I can't possibly express the extent to which I loathe Josh right now.

[Oldernowiser]

I say no way. My guess is that TLC will take the opportunity to film "A Very Special Episode" where Boob and Michelle forgive Josh and then do a lot of Lord-talk and claim it's a family matter that some devil-loving heathen dredged up to sully their good names. And people will buy it because they are believers and not thinkers.

But here's the thing...their schtick has always been that despite all logical expectations to the contrary, they had all of these children and yet they were all one big happy perfect Christian family and they had God's rubber stamp on anything they did. The smug factor has always been off the charts.

Now there's a huge piece of evidence that their children HAVE suffered from neglect and in a really awful way. What's worse, is that the parents were told about it and promptly buried it so that the gravy train would keep rolling.

How does anyone watch their sanctimonious crap now, knowing the price their children have had to pay?

[fliptopbox]

Chances are Anna was told something happened back when he was 14, but not the whole story. I have a hard time believing she'd still want to be with someone who openly admitted to molesting 5 family members. But now that everything is out in the open she's just going with the flow and saying that she knew the whole story, because in that culture what else can she do? She's probably secretly horrified but can't do much about it...so she's pulling herself up by the bootstraps and trying to ride it out.

[Cherrio]

Are we all assuming that the incidents that were reported were the only ones that ever happened? I realize one girl said she wasn't touched, but it's not necessarily the case -- she may have been asleep, she may have repressed it, or she may just have kept quiet out of shame or family loyalty or some other motivation. Beyond that, I'd hate to think any of the other brothers or any other male in the house did anything like this, or that Josh having lost his power-trip outlet could have found other ways of dominating or emotionally hurting his sisters. Besides continuing to exist, I mean. I think I posted up-thread (possibly on a different thread) that I am haunted by the thought, "What else don't we know? What if this is just the tip of the iceberg?"

That was my thought this morning. What else has been going on and is Josh the only molester?     I am thinking tip of the iceberg.

Also, since JB is so cheap, giving or allowing the daughters to live in those homes might have been an incentive/insurance in that they remain silent on this.

[ghoulina]

Chances are Anna was told something happened back when he was 14, but not the whole story. I have a hard time believing she'd still want to be with someone who openly admitted to molesting 5 family members. But now that everything is out in the open she's just going with the flow and saying that she knew the whole story, because in that culture what else can she do? She's probably secretly horrified but can't do much about it...so she's pulling herself up by the bootstraps and trying to ride it out.

 

Right. I think he may have given her a watered down version. ONE sister. ONE incident. Really played it down. I have a hard time believing Anna would marry him if she had the full knowledge of what is in those reports. But maybe I'm being naive. Maybe she is just so brainwashed that she believed asking forgiveness was all it would take to get rid of his problems. I don't know.

[pinkelephant3]

Just good 'ole Joshy boy. And, Anna.

Actually there are a lot of bashing comments on their girls histograms too they are mostly directed at josh but they shouldn't have to deal with it!

[SoSueMe]

Poor Marjorie

Bad timing to try and get in on the Duggar gravy train.

[BitterApple]

It actually seems like Anna's upbringing treated sex a little more normally. She was told attraction and desires were okay, but to save herself for marriage. That's a lot less extreme than how the Duggars broached the subject with their children.

[bluebonnet]

Chances are Anna was told something happened back when he was 14, but not the whole story. I have a hard time believing she'd still want to be with someone who openly admitted to molesting 5 family members. But now that everything is out in the open she's just going with the flow and saying that she knew the whole story, because in that culture what else can she do? She's probably secretly horrified but can't do much about it...so she's pulling herself up by the bootstraps and trying to ride it out.

I really don't see any reason to not believe Anna.  If she were a normal person, yes, I'd think she's lying to spare her family.  But she's not normal.  She's part of a cult of fundies who believe that women are in charge of male sexuality and that perpetrators of sexual abuse are accountable only to god and that there are no victims and those who suffered under the abuser should forgive.  Everything she's said is pretty standard stuff for their sect.  Unless you're saying that she's not a believer, that she's a complete fraud and doesn't support any of the things she espouses, then there is zero reason not to trust what she says as what she says completely fits in with her persona.  

[doodlebug]

Well, The Today Show featured the story in its top headlines at the top of the show and then had a report after the first half hour, with Erica Hill, of course.  She naturally denied any knowledge of this story at the time she filmed the special.  The story made it clear that the police report was the smoking gun.  I suspect that Jim Bob and Michelle actually brought this down on themselves by having Joy request the records be destroyed.  I think that someone affiliated with the PD or the juvenile court found out about the request and leaked the story to the media for a price, triggering the FOI request.   It's just too coincidental that this story broke in conjunction with the motion to destroy the records.  Without the police report, its all hearsay which is why this story lurked around the edges of the internet for years.

 

Today rightly emphasized that it was more than a year from the time the parents discovered the situation before they spoke to the authorities.  Erica says she attempted to contact both Jim Bob and Josh, but, amazingly, her best buddies were unavailable for comment.  The report stated that the victims were 5 young girls and that part of the abuse took place in a communal bedroom where they slept.  I have a feeling that it is network policy not to name underage victims of abuse without their consent, but I think that anyone knowing anything about the Duggars can guess who it was. 

 

The only way they can salvage this is to agree to an on air interview with TLC that includes the girls and doesn't allow them to vet the questions. And there is no way that happens without JB and Michelle forcing words into the girls' mouths.  Those kids aren't actors and the lies won't hold under scrutiny.  The jig is up, this thing is already spiraling.  Jim Bob and Michelle aren't going to be able to control the message any longer and the dirty truth is coming out about them and their warped beliefs and values.

Edited May 22, 2015 by doodlebug

[Kcat1971]

Okay, but let's be real, if the police report had been wildly exaggerated, the Duggars would have nipped that in the bud and been more specific. In this sort of situation, what the people often don't say is as pertinent as what they do say.

 

The Duggars might be dumb, but they're not that dumb. (Or are they?) From a PR perspective, giving a vague admission of guilt might as well have been a full confession that everything in that police report was true.

 

(And yes, I realize that this wouldn't necessariliy hold up in court. But we're not in court.)

 

 

Actually, I think its entirely possible that they are THAT dumb.  My experience is on the fringe of some fundamentalism and I've heard people "confess" and feel deep shame about some things that I don't really think are a big deal.  I think its possible that a large portion of Josh's confession is much to do about nothing. And the narrative from the non-family member (See #11 & #17 in the police report) support that thought.  The two narratives that are #9 & #10 contain some allegations that should have been investigated further.  The descriptions in those narratives are very troubling but again, they might be exaggerations or miscommunication based on the possible age of the victim/witness.  

 

So far we don't know what happened after the police report that we have seen.  That report reads to me like a CPS investigation.  It looks like they interviewed all the children who could speak except for Josh.  They used the anatomical drawings to gauge whether the children were victims of abuse.  The fact that they did not remove any of the children seems to indicate that there was no on-going abuse.  And it possibly indicates that the 2 narratives that they had of prior molestation may not have been as serious as they appear in those narratives because they children were not removed.

 

Bottom line for me is this should have been fully investigated at the time it happened.  JimBob & Michelle should have sought outside help including a full investigation & therapy for all the children.  Maybe its wishful thinking on my part because I don't want the girls to have suffered, but I think it is possible that these allegations are getting blown out of proportion.  And based on my training I'm not going to assume something more than what he's confessed to without a trial or a credible victim making specific allegation.  

 

I will continue to snark on how JimBob & Michelle have raised their children.  Whether or not something truly abusive occurred this whole situation is an example of why this lifestyle is bad parenting.  In a lot of ways they give Christians & Home Schoolers a bad name and that really annoys me.

[mimionthebeach]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/josh-duggar-19-kids-and-counting-star-apologizes-amid-child-molestation-allegations-1.3083340

Holy Crap on a Cracker. So not what one expects to see on the CBC

[Fuzzysox]

The truth will NEVER be known until the kids are fully deprogrammed. They will oinly escape when they are receive professional help to debunk everything they have been taught.

[Saylii]

The Freedom of Information Act would not have resulted in this information being turned over to InTouch.  Any Department of Human Services investigations are excluded in the state of Arkansas.  Whoever released it committed a misdemeanor.

 

I don't think it would be one of the victims, unless it was the speculated non-sister.  Jana does too much to protect the younger children.  I can't imagine she'd want this in the world.  Jessa and Jill have seemingly moved on to their own lives.  Joy wouldn't be able to get the documents herself being a minor.  If any of them did it, Jinger is the only logical choice.

 

I'm also interested in why InTouch's first articles on this had a bunch of wrong information (timeline on when the abuse happened, the dates the police got involved, the number of victims).  Did they release that first story based on speculation hoping that it would get the report in their hands?

[Maya]

The report stated that the victims were 5 young girls and that part of the abuse took place in a communal bedroom where they slept. 

Kind of sheds new light on why they were so desperate to paint their bedroom. I bet looking at that horse made them sick :(

[fliptopbox]

The truth will NEVER be known until the kids are fully deprogrammed. They will only escape when they are receive professional help to debunk everything they have been taught.

If that ever actually happens. At this point I'm not sure any of them have a strong enough will to fully separate from that sideshow.

[ChicksDigScars]

Esp since they cancelled Honey Boo Boo for the exact same thing

 

Hmm. I dunno. That was a different situation.  There are actually two precedents at work, here.

 

June Boo Boo willingly brought home a boyfriend that had been convicted and served time for child molestation of multiple children and added him to the family dynamic. He also molested her own daughter (which he was not convicted for).  He was a convicted felon. And she was putting her cooch in front of her brain by giving him unfiltered access to her three other minor daughters.  She also, in the process, broke up her "marriage" to Sugar Bear, who was a popular character on the show.  So, she blew up the family and the show. She changed the show's direction and focus. No one was going to tune in to watch just June, her obnoxious younger kids, and the molester. Anna, Kaitlyn and Sugie would have been non-factors.  June overplayed her hand, thinking that the only reason people watched was to see her and Alanna, and that no one would miss Sugie, Anna or Kaitlyn. TLC said, "Nope. See you."

 

The Cake Boss' brother-in-law, Remy, was convicted of molesting a Valastro family member. A niece (Grace's daughter?)  Remy worked at the bakery and was one of the main decorators shown each week, along with the other brothers-in-law, Mauro and Joey.  He was one background character of many. They wrote him off. No one really noticed a difference and Buddy and TLC went on about their business.  The show seems to have lost steam, but I blame it more on Buddy's personal issues with his DUI than what happened with Remy.  Also, they overexposed him with spin off shows.

 

I see TLC reacting more along the lines of the Cake Boss. Removing the offending party from shows, and if Jim Bob and MEE-chelle have a problem with it, then there's the door. Don't let it hit you in the ass on the way out.  Then, they start to focus more on other shows and less on the Duggars. Less promotion. They see if the ratings for the Duggars begin to slide. If so, they really put effort into finding the next Gosselin/Boo Boo/Duggar sensations.  I think with having such a huge cast, and the popularity of the daughters (sorry MEE-chelle, your J-Slaves are more popular and appealing than you), they think that they can reduce or erase Josh from the show and that will make it go away.  Trouble with this is that Anna has the cute kiddies.  

 

I think a nice long hiatus is coming. Kind of like Cake Boss since the DUI. They won't outright pull the plug yet, but we may get a long break while they take the temperature of the viewing audience and see if ratings suffer.  IMO, if the show was going to be cancelled, we wouldn't have seen  marathon last night., They DID rearrange a couple of the shows, but if the plug was going to be pulled, there would have been a Little Couple/Willis Family marathon thrown in there at the last second, instead.

 

One thing is that TLC IS in the driver's seat on this. JB can no longer strong arm them to do what he wants.  They have control. 

 

But, I do wonder if JB can also play the "Josh was never charged or convicted" card and lawyer up if TLC breaks a contract with them.

Edited May 22, 2015 by ChicksDigScars

[JenCarroll]

Woke up and checked the Internet. Crap. I was hoping it was all just a bad dream.

OK, I have admittedly only caught snippets here and there of this show...maybe 1 hour total when you put it all together.

 

Do Michelle and JB REALLY dry hump each other in front of the kids?

Sadly, yes they do.

[Maizie131]

TLC needs to pull the plug on this show ASAP.  I will never watch it again.  Extremely disturbing! 

[Cherrio]

I say no way. My guess is that TLC will take the opportunity to film "A Very Special Episode" where Boob and Michelle forgive Josh and then do a lot of Lord-talk and claim it's a family matter that some devil-loving heathen dredged up to sully their good names. And people will buy it because they are believers and not thinkers.

The fact that all of these pieces of shit spend their time actively campaigning against LGBT people and their "sinful" "lifestyles" burns me to no end. If they want forgiveness from people maybe they should start asking for it themselves from the victims who live in their own home.

I think they are already filming it.

[Bella]

Woke up and checked the Internet. Crap. I was hoping it was all just a bad dream.

 

This was my first good, strong laugh of the day. I got up at 5:30 a.m. to start checking on all this thread again. Oh, I so wish this had been a bad dream! And then there are the victims, the secondary victims, etc., etc., etc. Sigh.

 

(And I can't thank you posters enough for being so civil, thoughtful, and measured in your righteous outrage over this situation. Even though you're posting faster than we can read and we've had to enlist at least two new mods to help, we're really grateful that you've all been so exemplary in your discussion. We're already bragging about you in the mod-only area.)

[Bad Example]

I think the girls, especially the ones in the house, suffer the most from this being made public. Rampant speculation will follow them forever. Their entire world changed this week, and not in a positive way, at least at this point.

 

Do the girls even realize that if they were to escape, the reaction of most of the world will NOT be to point at them while declaring them "Defrauding Harlot!"?  More along the lines of "I'm sorry that happened to you.  Your brother sucks."

[Guest]

June Boo Boo willingly brought home a boyfriend that had been convicted and served time for child molestation of multiple children and added him to the family dynamic. He also molested her own daughter (which he was not convicted for).

That's not correct. He went to prison for raping Anna. That was the only crime he was convicted of.

[Ljohnson1987]

The girls lives are forever changed. TLC should cancel the show, and get them real help. Whatever Gothard therapy they got (If any) was probably to keep sweet.

[CofCinci]

The Freedom of Information Act would not have resulted in this information being turned over to InTouch. Any Department of Human Services investigations are excluded in the state of Arkansas. Whoever released it committed a misdemeanor.

I don't think it would be one of the victims, unless it was the speculated non-sister. Jana does too much to protect the younger children. I can't imagine she'd want this in the world. Jessa and Jill have seemingly moved on to their own lives. Joy wouldn't be able to get the documents herself being a minor. If any of them did it, Jinger is the only logical choice.

I'm also interested in why InTouch's first articles on this had a bunch of wrong information (timeline on when the abuse happened, the dates the police got involved, the number of victims). Did they release that first story based on speculation hoping that it would get the report in their hands?

The released document has no connection to the Arkansas Dept. of Human Services. The header of the scanned InTouch document clearly states "Springdale Police Department - Offense Report", which are reports easily obtained using FOIA.

[Leigh3]

I was 100% sure yesterday that they were headed back to AR to circle the wagons. Today's events pretty much confirm this. Smuggar never would have quit without an assurance from his sleazy father that there would be a carlot waiting for him to run. 

 

I hate these people. I hope the girls (and Anna) get some real help. 

 

I wonder if the "61 year old woman" could be the old church friend who started helping Mechelle with the laundry after her meltdown? The age is about right. 

Michelle had a meltdown?  Details please

I carefully read the 33 page redacted police report. I am sick.  I was so sad to read one of the sister, whom Josh put his hand up her dress, stated she forgave him, but does not  feel safe in her home. Surprised this statement didn't open a second investigation. P25 and 26 of the report of a sister in the home who loves to cook and is in charge of meals (which sister is this?) She went on to say how this event brought the family closer to God- in my head I was hearing Jill. This sister claimed she was not touched inappropriately. She did state someone makes her feel uncomfortable. The name was blacked out, but for some reason I don't think it was Josh and the blacked out area was too long like it was a long first and last name.  So this counseling center Josh was sent to has...work camp. He was probably told to pray and work hard to get these demons out of him.

This damning letter who wrote it and why was it placed in a book and forgotten??? The family knew about the letter. Was it a confessional from Josh as part of his asking for forgiveness?

Who emailed Oprah??? 

As of TLC  if you listen closely you can hear the gravy train coming off the tracks

[Ljohnson1987]

I cannot believe people want this to be forgotten. They're basically saying it's okay.

[GEML]

I'm not sure that the communal bedroom was the one in the new house. I think most of what we are talking about took place in the old house(s).

[natyxg]

The Cake Boss' brother-in-law, Remy, was convicted of molesting a Valastro family member. A niece (Grace's daughter?)  Remy worked at the bakery and was one of the main decorators shown each week, along with the other brothers-in-law, Mauro and Joey.  He was one background character of many. They wrote him off. No one really noticed a difference and Buddy and TLC went on about their business.  The show seems to have lost steam, but I blame it more on Buddy's personal issues with his DUI than what happened with Remy.  Also, they overexposed him with spin off shows.

 

I see TLC reacting more along the lines of the Cake Boss. Removing the offending party from shows, and if Jim Bob and MEE-chelle have a problem with it, then there's the door

 

I don't think it can compare to this Duggar fiasco. If Josh had molested like a neighbour or something while in Washington DC, then yes. They could just fire him. But this is something that involves pretty much the whole family. The parents knew and didn't get him professional help, or separate him from the house or whatever. There is also the obvious subtext that people will be thinking about: that their weird ways may have played a role because that was not a heatlhy environment. Then there are the victims, who everyone will assume are the more visible girls from the show. Then there's the wife that stands by Josh.

 

Their whole show was about how wholesome they supposedly were, but now all of it it's tainted. I have a hard time imagining watching any episode now without thinking that it's all a lie.

 

What can save the show is if their biggest fans, the conservative viewers, express sympathy and they (the Duggars and the network) can spin it around and make all about being so christian and forgiving. Maybe then TLC will keep it on, hoping that those fans will keep watching. They'd have to be quite thirsty and needing the ratings, though, if they would do this not caring what it could do to their image. And even then the ratings may just plummet because what made the show popular is just tainted now and things will feel so fake.

[Chai]

I actually feel sick over this.

Josh said in his statement that he and his victims received counseling. I hope to God so. As a mother i would be blaming myself that this happened to my daughters under my own roof. Nothing would get in my way to prevent those daughters from receiving All the counseling they needed. What a hypocrite receiving mother of the year award.

[Literata]

I'm wearing my long chevron skirt today in solidarity with the girls. :)

I am so genuinely sad about this. It breaks my heart most of all to think of those girls not having felt safe in their own home. And given the patriarchy, I'm sure they all idolized Josh before this happened. I can't begin to imagine their fear, hurt and confusion. It all is just unspeakably sad.

[okerry]

Does anyone know why Oprah did not pursue this back in 2006? She must have believed the email (or whatever it was) at that time stating that this sort of thing was going on in the Duggar family, because she immediately pulled the plug on them and sent them packing.

 

Oprah was a victim of sexual abuse herself when young. There's no more powerful person in television than Oprah Winfrey. Why did she not insist that this be investigated further? Something must have gone on behind the scenes - some kind of deal - and I'd love to know what it was.

[Ljohnson1987]

Anna knowing about it,  and still marrying Smugs, and having kids with him, proves that she's too brainwashed to think for herself. Abuse is never okay.  Anna, I thought you were a little smarter than that. Guess not. Cancel The Duggars!

[BitterApple]

Jill was the one who did the majority of the cooking and the phrasing sounds like how she talks so I'd bet on the non-abused sister being her.

Throwing Josh, Boob and Michelle aside, I hope the Duggar girls get a good attorney and sue the crap out of whoever released this information. It doesn't matter that names were redacted, anyone with half a brain can put two and two together and figure out who the victims were. I don't know the ins and outs of the FOIA, but I can't imagine it includes releasing info about the sexual abuse of minors.

As far as Oprah, her producers turned the email over to authorities, I'm not sure what more she could have done.

Edited May 22, 2015 by BitterApple

[Ljohnson1987]

I doubt the Duggar girls would sue. But they should get some real therapy. My heart breaks for them.

[galax-arena]

Re: feeling sorry for Josh, I might - might - have felt inklings of sympathy for him if his statement to People or FRC resignation had shown any degree of self-awareness and contrition for the rippling effects his abuse has had on his family. But there's none of that. It's all deflection and minimization and me, me, me. "I understood that if I continued down this wrong road that I would end up ruining MY life." "Past teenage mistakes." etc. I don't think he's shown any true sense of accountability for anything.

Edited May 22, 2015 by galax-arena

[HumblePi]

I'm wearing my long chevron skirt today in solidarity with the girls. :)

I am so genuinely sad about this. It breaks my heart most of all to think of those girls not having felt safe in their own home. And given the patriarchy, I'm sure they all idolized Josh before this happened. I can't begin to imagine their fear, hurt and confusion. It all is just unspeakably sad.

This shouldn't surprise anyone, I know I'm not. The deplorable way that this ultra-conservative, hypocritical religious sect has a clear and present history of thinly disguised female misogyny. Women are considered things, sexual objects that are to be used for one purpose alone, to bear children and increase the numbers of 'the faithful'. The women are brainwashed and repressed from birth. The men on the other hand are raised to believe they will be the patriarchs and the rulers of their women. TLC doesn't want to let go of their cash cow but the backlash of public opinion may be so strong that TLC will have to address this issue and do something. If they keep the Duggars show they will be taking a great risk.

 

I would be interested in knowing why Josh Duggar decided to come forward with his sordid past at this point in time. He must have known it would absolutely destroy not only his political career but the reputation and legacy of the entire Duggar family.

 

I bet every one of the Jenners and Kardashians are running around high-fiving each other right now because they know this is taking some of the heat and attention off them and Bruce.

Edited May 22, 2015 by HumblePi